AW: A Perspective - 28

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Sadaji - PranamsTo read "Jnana and Jnana phallam", "Perspective 28" and the following exchange with Putranji was very instructive, thank you.May I ask you to clear one doubt about akhanDaakaara vRitti.After shravana and manana Due to praarabda and lingering habitual notions, this aatma-anaatma viveka slips out of my mind. Hence people say I have understood but I have not realized. That the emotional mind (due to raaga and dveshas) is not aligned with the intellect that has the knowledge. Nidhidhyaasana is bridge the gap as this gap is created by the lingering vaasanas which vary from a saadhak to saadhak.

So do I understand it correctly that the instability of this realization is due to the fact that akhanDaakaara vRitti is not there yet?Would you please exemplify on this?Om ShantiSitara

Von: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisadaAn: advaitin Gesendet: Samstag, den 27. März

2010, 7:50:16 UhrBetreff: Re: Re: A Perspective - 28

 

 

Putrranm ji - PraNAms

 

After a long time.

 

On the lighter side, you are violating two rules, one written and one unwritten. The written one is you are supposed to retain only the relevant portions and not the whole post when responding. The second unwritten rule is you are not supposed to ask intelligent questions.

 

The answers are interjected in between the text - The title of the series should give me a good leverage, don't you think so?

 

 

--- On Fri, 3/26/10, putranm <putranm > wrote:

 

I liked the example of the mirror. Like we never lose sight that the image in the mirror is only a reflection of the 'real-me', so also a jnani never loses sight that the manifest world is a reflection of the real Self. Can a person attaining to Nidhidhyasana (or that shift to right understanding) get deluded by maya again - i.e by desire, fear, name & fame - or has the person become jivan-mukta? I ask because it seems that shift is something perennial with 100% conviction - so what else can there be to attain?

 

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Putranmji - the example is actually comes from bimba-pratibimba vaada. The all pervading consciousness can not be known just as all pervading light cannot be seen. Only if there is an object which reflects the light then the light makes the object known and object makes the light's presence revealed. Hence without mind existence of the all pervading consciousness cannot be revealed. I have discussed this exhaustively in the previous posts in the series. The reflected consciousness in the mind is called chidaabhaasa. The consciousness does not get affected by the reflection in the mind. This reflected from the mind illumines the thoughts rising in the mind where the thoughts are images of the objects in the form of vRitti. The quality of the reflection now depends on the purity of the mind. It is like sun light gets reflected by the moon and in the moon light we can see things on a full-moon night. As you are familiar it is only the reflected light

from

the object forms an image in the retina which forms - optical image signal in the mind. Hence what you are seeing is not really the object but the reflected light from the moon which in turn is nothing but reflected light from the sun in the form of image in the mind. In the same way the light of consciousness which is all pervading gets reflected first by the moon and that reflected light is further reflected by the vRitti or thought in the mind for me to know the thought (of an object out there). Nidhidhyaasana is therefore shifting my attention from the object (name and form) thought to the light of reflection which is traced back to the original light of consciousness. Nidhidhyaasana, is then, one being constantly vigilant and be aware of the presence of the light of consciousness that is getting filtered through the mind and then through the object thoughts. That light of consciousness is I am. That is what is involved in the bimba-pratibimba

vaada

- as a means to see or recognize that Saakshii which otherwise cannot be recognized. If the mind is pure, the reflection comes out in all its glory. Discrimination is like seeing the sunlight in and through when moon is illuming the objects on a full-moon night, since moon does not have light of its own.

 

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In the section where you were describing how to overcome restlessness of the mind, I was expecting mention of focusing the mind on Ishvara or on Ishta-devata. It may be included in the abhyasa part or maybe the stage of atma-vichara that you have referred to, comes later.

 

Putranmji -we are now taking about nidhidhyaasana after shravana and manana - which means I have understood and recognize that the substantive of jiiva-Iswara and jagat is one and the same Brahman that I am. That is jnaanam. Nidhidhyaasana is after the shravana and manana - then we are now at this stage in the binary format - aatma and anaatma. That shift in tripuTi or triangular format of jiiva-jagat- iswara to binary format aatma-anaatma is what is being discussed. Before jnaanam we have the triangular format where jiiva is different from Iswara and for every problem I am running to the temple with list. aarthaH and arthaarthii - in the triangular format. Once I have jignaasu and jnaanam I am recognizing the world is nothing but mithyaa and Iswara is nothing but the consciousness that I am. Due to praarabda and lingering habitual notions, this aatma-anaatma viveka slips out of my mind. Hence people say I have understood but I have not realized. That

the

emotional mind (due to raaga and dveshas) is not aligned with the intellect that has the knowledge. Nidhidhyaasana is bridge the gap as this gap is created by the lingering vaasanas which vary from a saadhak to saadhak.

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Is there a 'bhaktha's viewpoint vs jnani's viewpoint' (i.e. one who proceeds through or settles in the mode of bhakthi and one who proceeds through atma-vichara alone) on the same topics that will differ in how we emphasize the methods - and yet both be correct/non- contradictory? I see your elaboration specific to the jnani's viewpoint as it minimizes mention of Ishvara.

 

Putranmji - at this level the bhakti transforms into jnaana. Remember the four bhaktaas - we are now taking about the fourth one. Lard outside is same as Lord inside as aatmaswaruupam. antarbahischa tat sarvam vyaapya naaraayaNa sthitaH - Naaraayana (you know I am vaishnavate) is inside and outside. I can say Lord pervades everything or I am -pervades everything. Both statements are the same. The two slokas in 6th of Gita follow each other: sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva bhuutanicha aatmani and yo maam pasyati sarvatra sarvanca mayi pasyati. The non-duality of aatma and iswara is obvious. That is jnaanam and that is bhakti too as per advaita.

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(This is also relevant to my earlier post regarding Swami Atmapriyananda' s essay on Neo-Vedanta. He makes much ado about Sri Ramakrishna using a paradigm of "Nitya-Lila" as opposed to Shankara using "Satya-Mithya" .)

 

Putranmji - I prefer not to comment on Swami's essay since I did not study it.

 

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Finally, along the same lines, if a dvaitin is continually thinking of Krishna (i.e. meditating on Krishna in the dvaita sense), he experiences the bliss of meditation continually. When he deals with the world, he is always linking back to Krishna. So my question is: what is wrong with this rasaaswaadaH? How does this constitute a lower state than the jnani whose conviction is that all is Brahman, etc? In both cases, there is presumably 100% conviction of respective ideas of Truth.

 

Putranmji

 

For Dvaitin as along as there is a difference between jiiva and Iswara and jagat we are in triad or tripuTi format. There is no salvation or moksha there since each limits the other if one consders all of them are real as Dvaitins do.

 

In the aatma and anaatma binary format there is actually advaita since anaatma is negated as mithyaa and therefore cannot be counted - just like one cannot count gold and number of ornaments as separate count. Gold is the ornaments too and Nidhidhyaasana is recognition all the time that there is only gold in and through the ornaments, while transacting with the ornaments and still differntiating rings, bangles, etc.

 

No moksha in dvaita since each limits the other. Moksha is freedom from all limitations - that is limitless state and limited cannot become limitless unless it is already limitless and does not know that it is limitless. Ignorance of one own nature is the problem and ignorance can only be eliminated by jnaanam and nothing else. Others are helpful in preparing the mind for jnaanam. Knowledge occurs only by a pramaaNa and mahaavaakyaas provide the unity of jiiva-jagat and Iswara - Brahman satyam and jagat mithyaa.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

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thollmelukaalkizhu

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sitaraji - PraNAms

 

Let us go back to the basics. Light of consciousness is nityam or eternal and

all pervading. Hence it is there all the time and everywhere - Actually the

words all the time and everywhere are spatial and temporal connotation - it is

beyond time since no words can describe it.

 

Mind is available during waking and dream states but folded in deep sleep state.

 

When the mind is there the light of consciousness get reflected there like any

object if you place in a lighted room it is seen due to light falling on it and

getting reflected. What you see is only the reflected light from the object.

Same way when the mind is there, it cannot but reflect the light that is

everywhere. This is chidaabhaasa.

 

Now this light further reflects the thoughts and like inside the room is lighted

by the sunlight which is coming in through windows which is actually reflected

light of the sun that is in the sky.

 

When I shift my attention during meditation from the contents of the thoughts in

terms of name and attributes to the light reflecting from the thoughts which is

nothing but reflected light from the mind, which is nothing but the original

light which is all pervading - I switch my attention to that constant original

light that is coming through series of reflected mediums. The thoughts may be

changing as different objects keeping forming vRittis in my mind. But ny

attention is not on the idam vRitti but on the light that is getting reflected

by these changing thoughts - which is called asham vRitti. Since original light

is akhanDam or unbroken and but gets reflected only when the mind is awake, I

can pay attention (using the mind only) to that constant light that is ever

shining but expressing through series of reflections.Objects will be changing as

I am transacting in the waking and dream states. But I am constantly aware of

the objects and the

changing objects too. That awareness is not changing.

 

My paying constant attention to that unbroken light is akhanDaakaara vRitti. It

is like great musician paying attention to the background tambura shruti so that

all his avarohana and aarohana are around that shruti. The constant awareness to

that back ground light of consciousness is akhanDa aakaara vRitti. Any further

description is only words that cannot reach there. But as long as one sees this

fact one really SEES - yaH pasyati saH pasyati -an idiam that Vyaasa uses

constantly.

 

Hope this helps

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

--- On Sat, 3/27/10, Sitara Mitali <smitali17 wrote:

 

 

 

Due to praarabda and lingering habitual notions, this aatma-anaatma viveka slips

out of my mind. Hence people say I have understood but I have not realized. That

the emotional mind (due to raaga and dveshas) is not aligned with the intellect

that has the knowledge. Nidhidhyaasana is bridge the gap as this gap is created

by the lingering vaasanas which vary from a saadhak to saadhak. 

 

 

So do I understand it correctly that the instability of this realization is due

to the fact that akhanDaakaara vRitti is not there yet?

 

 

Would you please exemplify on this?