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Pranams learned members,

 

Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where

Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna

and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

 

Love & Light,

Madhava

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> celibacy & dUrvAsa's hungry...this story would give a perfect naration to

> 'socalled' jnAni's activity in this phenomenal world!! Though rAdha could

> 'see' krishna's married life & his householder activity, though she could

> see dUrvAsa having lunch....

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Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana

references where Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the

8 wives of Lord Krishna and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Unfortunately there is no mention of

Radha in bhAgavata mahApurANa...But you can always read about her in other

minor texts of dvaitins, especially in the book shelf of ISKCON, even they

have rAdha sahasranAma :-))

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

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To my knowledge, Radha is not a major figure in any of the Purana-s. She became popular only with Jayadeva's Gita-Govinda. She assumes importance in the sampradaya of Nimbarka and subsequently the Gaudiya Vaishnava-s.

2009/11/12 mturumella <madhava

 

 

 

 

 

Pranams learned members,

 

Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

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Pranams Madhav,

 

The word " rAdhA " finds its mention in Rg Veda where Indra is extolled as

Radha-Pati. The compilation of " Indra Sahasranama " by my great-grandfather finds

this name.

 

The Rg vedic Indra is the chief & principal deity during vedic times whose is

equalled to the Supreme Purusha. The chief objective of Rg vedic suktas is to

know Indra and called Indra Vidya. It is the Indra which was the Supreme God in

vedic times alongwith Agni, Marut, Matarishvan, Usha, Ila, Vak.

 

Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance and the vedic gods

were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the puranic god whose vedic

source is Indra.

 

Radha is traced back to the vedic rk " Atarishurbharata sukta " of Rg veda where

several ladies (gopikas) are referred to as worshipping the Indra in Goloka.

There is a term called " surAdha " which in tantra represents the Gopika Mandala.

 

Some of the authoritative texts are Radhika Tapini Upanishad, Radhopanishad,

Devi Bhagavata, Brahmavaivarta Purana.

 

Shri Suka Brahman (son of Vyasa) extols Radha in Siddhantapradipa as the Lila

swarupa of Krishna and hence, there is NO SEPARATE EXISTENCE OF RADHA but finds

her presence ONLY IN KRISHNA.

Radha is an aspect of Krishna which is His hladini Sakti.

 

Infact, Radha-Krishna lilas are dealt at length in Brahmavaivarta Purana and the

vyutpatti of Radha is given as:

 

rashabdoccharanta bhakto rati muktim sudurlambham

dhashabdoccharanat durge dhavatyeya hareh padam //

 

So, one can find the references in Devi Bhagavata & Brahmavaivarta Purana

abundantly.

 

Later on, some of the vaishnavas usurped this concept and developed a cult of

their own.

 

In Sakta / Vaishnava Tantras, Radha is described as the chief nayikas among

Gopikas and to enter into the Goloka, one has to seek the permission of Radha.

There is a Radhika Yantra and Mantra in Tantra sastra where rest of the Gods

become the attendant deities in avarana mandala.

 

regs,

sriram

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava wrote:

>

> Pranams learned members,

>

> Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where

Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna

and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

>

> Love & Light,

> Madhava

>

> advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote:

> >

> > celibacy & dUrvAsa's hungry...this story would give a perfect naration to

> > 'socalled' jnAni's activity in this phenomenal world!! Though rAdha could

> > 'see' krishna's married life & his householder activity, though she could

> > see dUrvAsa having lunch....

>

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Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance

and the vedic gods were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the

puranic god whose vedic source is Indra.

praNAms Sri Sriram prabhuji

Hare Krishna

Though I agree that in veda-s Indra,

agni, vAyu etc. have more sUkta-s to their credit, vishNu & shiva too

have their place intact in vedic regime:-)) So, I dont categorically

say shiva, vishNu have ONLY purANic origin...As you know, shatarudreeya

of taitireeya saMhita, Rigvedeeya rudra sUkta, manyu sUkta, shivOpAsana

maNtra-s in taitireeya mahAnArAYa upanishad etc. have the shiva as main

deity. Likewise, we have purusha sUkta, nArAyaNa sUkta, vishNu sUkta,

atharvaNi laghu narAyaNa upanishad & most of the mahAnArAyaNa upanishad

maNtra-s etc. have vishNu as main vedic devata.

Am I arguing too much prabhuji

?? :-))

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

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Pranams Sri Sriram-ji, Bhaskar-ji and Ramesh-ji for helping me understand.

 

Sriramji, I liked your pointers. Following are my thoughts after reading your

pointers:

 

1) Unfortunately we know that a lot of upanishads are written by sanskrit

scholars who wanted to advance their own position; who wanted to advocate their

own school of thought. For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God) and

Sailopanishad (Sermon on the mount) stand as a solid evidence to this kind of

hypothesis. Same way we know that Brahmavaivarta is heavily interpolated. So

we can't take any upanishad for granted unless it is one of those 108 mentioned

in Mouktika Upanishad.

 

2) We also know that Indra has challenged Lord Srikrishna, when Krishnaji

advised the gopas to offer prayers to him instead of Indra. The incident

narrated in Bhagawata regarding Govardhanagiri vrittanta clearly mentions about

Indra. This is the same Indra who is mentioned in Rigveda. So this giving rise

to a lot of further doubts in me. We know Radha is used as an adjective

" suRadha " . I guess there is also a possibility of several individuals having

the name Radha.

 

Actually my mind is searching for more answers, why is it Lord Krishna's wives,

and other known Hindu icons, are ignored by Saints born and brought up in North

India! especially those who lived there after 12th century.

 

I know that when Tulsidas-ji was roaming on the streets of Varanasi, there was

no Temple of Lord Siva... A major portion of Ramayana (uttarakanda) is

discarded....

 

Same way Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.. Instead of the known eight wives of Lord

Krishna, Radhaji came in to prominance... I am thinking may be there were

major influences in their lives that we, now a days, not privy to or we don't

understand which gave rise to different kind of faith icons instead of icons

that Hindus were much familiar with...

 

I am sorry but is there any academic book that points me to the historical lives

of Hindu saints in North India between 12th to 16th century?

 

Anyway, thank you for all these pointers. Thank you very much from the bottom of

my heart.

 

Love & Light,

Madhava

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Venkata Sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> Pranams Madhav,

>

> The word " rAdhA " finds its mention in Rg Veda where Indra is extolled as

Radha-Pati. The compilation of " Indra Sahasranama " by my great-grandfather finds

this name.

>

> The Rg vedic Indra is the chief & principal deity during vedic times whose is

equalled to the Supreme Purusha. The chief objective of Rg vedic suktas is to

know Indra and called Indra Vidya. It is the Indra which was the Supreme God in

vedic times alongwith Agni, Marut, Matarishvan, Usha, Ila, Vak.

>

> Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance and the vedic

gods were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the puranic god whose

vedic source is Indra.

>

> Radha is traced back to the vedic rk " Atarishurbharata sukta " of Rg veda where

several ladies (gopikas) are referred to as worshipping the Indra in Goloka.

There is a term called " surAdha " which in tantra represents the Gopika Mandala.

>

> Some of the authoritative texts are Radhika Tapini Upanishad, Radhopanishad,

Devi Bhagavata, Brahmavaivarta Purana.

>

> Shri Suka Brahman (son of Vyasa) extols Radha in Siddhantapradipa as the Lila

swarupa of Krishna and hence, there is NO SEPARATE EXISTENCE OF RADHA but finds

her presence ONLY IN KRISHNA.

> Radha is an aspect of Krishna which is His hladini Sakti.

>

> Infact, Radha-Krishna lilas are dealt at length in Brahmavaivarta Purana and

the vyutpatti of Radha is given as:

>

> rashabdoccharanta bhakto rati muktim sudurlambham

> dhashabdoccharanat durge dhavatyeya hareh padam //

>

> So, one can find the references in Devi Bhagavata & Brahmavaivarta Purana

abundantly.

>

> Later on, some of the vaishnavas usurped this concept and developed a cult of

their own.

>

> In Sakta / Vaishnava Tantras, Radha is described as the chief nayikas among

Gopikas and to enter into the Goloka, one has to seek the permission of Radha.

There is a Radhika Yantra and Mantra in Tantra sastra where rest of the Gods

become the attendant deities in avarana mandala.

>

> regs,

> sriram

>

>

>

>

> advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava@> wrote:

> >

> > Pranams learned members,

> >

> > Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where

Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna

and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

> >

> > Love & Light,

> > Madhava

> >

> > advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote:

> > >

> > > celibacy & dUrvAsa's hungry...this story would give a perfect naration to

> > > 'socalled' jnAni's activity in this phenomenal world!! Though rAdha could

> > > 'see' krishna's married life & his householder activity, though she could

> > > see dUrvAsa having lunch....

> >

>

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For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God)

praNAms

Hare Krishna

I heard in a discourse (I think given

by shatavadhAni R Ganesh) on minor upanishads that Allopanishad is NOT

on the god of muslims 'allah'....one of the meaning of alla is amma and

this upanishad is on amma i.e. devi mAtAji. Sri Sunder prabhuji,

any pointers on this upanishad??

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

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advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God)

 

> I heard in a discourse (I think given by shatavadhAni R Ganesh) on minor

> upanishads that Allopanishad is NOT on the god of muslims 'allah'....one

> of the meaning of alla is amma and this upanishad is on amma i.e. devi

> mAtAji. any pointers on this upanishad??

 

 

Namaste,

 

Max Muller in 1879 refers to the dubious status of this 'Upanishad' in

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01013.htm

 

Sri Gajanan Sadhale in his Upanishad-vakya-mahakosha (1940) refers to 239

upanishads by name, but has no reference to 'allopanishad'.

 

Monier-Williams dictionary does give the definition as mother:

 

1 allA f. (voc. %{alla}) , a mother Pa1n2. 7-3 , 107 Sch.

 

The phonemic similarity must have triggered somebody's imagination to

equate 'Allah' with 'allA' !

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

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Pranams Bhaskarji,

 

Where in Shatarudriya mentioned the Siva as the upasya devata. Except in the

anuvaka " namah somaya cha.. " It is the Rudra in the form of Agni which is the

upasya in Shatarudirya. Moreover, nowhere the name Siva comes in satarudriya

except in the Namah somaya anuvaka.Moreover, it is the Agni which is the upasya.

rudro va eshad agnih says the srutih.

 

Manyu is the adhishtana devata of Krodha. Also, the rk " manyu indro manyu

.....hota varuno jatavedah... " describes the manyu as Indra & Jatavedas (agni).

 

Narayana sukta describes the Agni that is present in Hridaya Akasa.

 

Vishnu Sukta extols the Trivikrama swarupa rupa Agni that has spread itself in

three vyahritis Bhu, Bhuvah & Suvah. These 3 vyahritis are the three steps taken

by Trivikrama. Bhu is presided by Agni, Bhuvah by Indra and Suvah by Aditya.

The 4th is the " Parame Voman " as described in Rg Veda or the Supreme Heavens.

 

Similarly, Mahanarayana Upanishad which describes the Agni that has entered in

Eternal Waters called Apah.

 

Even if the terms Siva & Vishnu are mentioned they are the attributes of Agni as

Auspicious & Omnipresence tattvas of Agni or Jatavedas. Even the Srisukta extols

this Jatavedas as Hiranyavarnam Harinim.....Jataveda ma avaha.

 

I would not go deep into Rg veda as this is not the forum to discuss these

things. Off line discussion would be continued...

 

regs,

sriram

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance and the vedic

> gods were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the puranic god

> whose vedic source is Indra.

> praNAms Sri Sriram prabhuji

> Hare Krishna

> Though I agree that in veda-s Indra, agni, vAyu etc. have more sUkta-s to

> their credit, vishNu & shiva too have their place intact in vedic

> regime:-)) So, I dont categorically say shiva, vishNu have ONLY purANic

> origin...As you know, shatarudreeya of taitireeya saMhita, Rigvedeeya

> rudra sUkta, manyu sUkta, shivOpAsana maNtra-s in taitireeya mahAnArAYa

> upanishad etc. have the shiva as main deity. Likewise, we have purusha

> sUkta, nArAyaNa sUkta, vishNu sUkta, atharvaNi laghu narAyaNa upanishad &

> most of the mahAnArAyaNa upanishad maNtra-s etc. have vishNu as main

> vedic devata.

> Am I arguing too much prabhuji ?? :-))

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

> bhaskar

>

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Pranams Madhavji,

 

What is the evidence that 108 upanishads are also genuine upanishads? They are

also of later origin. Probably, that is why Acharya Sankara wrote commentaries

only to 10 principal upanishads.

 

As regarding the Krishna banning the Indra puja, yes, there are certain

controversies around Krishna attacking the vedic worships and vedic rituals.

Infact, He stopped the popular utsav which was celebrated by then villagers

called *Indrotsav " . So, the popular customs and local folklore took ugly turn

which became a dogma again like the " Karma Kanda Mania " of Purva Mimamsakas.

 

regs,

sriram

 

 

advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava wrote:

>

> Pranams Sri Sriram-ji, Bhaskar-ji and Ramesh-ji for helping me understand.

>

> Sriramji, I liked your pointers. Following are my thoughts after reading your

pointers:

>

> 1) Unfortunately we know that a lot of upanishads are written by sanskrit

scholars who wanted to advance their own position; who wanted to advocate their

own school of thought. For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God) and

Sailopanishad (Sermon on the mount) stand as a solid evidence to this kind of

hypothesis. Same way we know that Brahmavaivarta is heavily interpolated. So

we can't take any upanishad for granted unless it is one of those 108 mentioned

in Mouktika Upanishad.

>

> 2) We also know that Indra has challenged Lord Srikrishna, when Krishnaji

advised the gopas to offer prayers to him instead of Indra. The incident

narrated in Bhagawata regarding Govardhanagiri vrittanta clearly mentions about

Indra. This is the same Indra who is mentioned in Rigveda. So this giving rise

to a lot of further doubts in me. We know Radha is used as an adjective

" suRadha " . I guess there is also a possibility of several individuals having

the name Radha.

>

> Actually my mind is searching for more answers, why is it Lord Krishna's

wives, and other known Hindu icons, are ignored by Saints born and brought up in

North India! especially those who lived there after 12th century.

>

> I know that when Tulsidas-ji was roaming on the streets of Varanasi, there was

no Temple of Lord Siva... A major portion of Ramayana (uttarakanda) is

discarded....

>

> Same way Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.. Instead of the known eight wives of Lord

Krishna, Radhaji came in to prominance... I am thinking may be there were

major influences in their lives that we, now a days, not privy to or we don't

understand which gave rise to different kind of faith icons instead of icons

that Hindus were much familiar with...

>

> I am sorry but is there any academic book that points me to the historical

lives of Hindu saints in North India between 12th to 16th century?

>

> Anyway, thank you for all these pointers. Thank you very much from the bottom

of my heart.

>

> Love & Light,

> Madhava

>

>

>

>

>

> advaitin , " Venkata Sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@> wrote:

> >

> > Pranams Madhav,

> >

> > The word " rAdhA " finds its mention in Rg Veda where Indra is extolled as

Radha-Pati. The compilation of " Indra Sahasranama " by my great-grandfather finds

this name.

> >

> > The Rg vedic Indra is the chief & principal deity during vedic times whose

is equalled to the Supreme Purusha. The chief objective of Rg vedic suktas is

to know Indra and called Indra Vidya. It is the Indra which was the Supreme God

in vedic times alongwith Agni, Marut, Matarishvan, Usha, Ila, Vak.

> >

> > Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance and the vedic

gods were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the puranic god whose

vedic source is Indra.

> >

> > Radha is traced back to the vedic rk " Atarishurbharata sukta " of Rg veda

where several ladies (gopikas) are referred to as worshipping the Indra in

Goloka. There is a term called " surAdha " which in tantra represents the Gopika

Mandala.

> >

> > Some of the authoritative texts are Radhika Tapini Upanishad, Radhopanishad,

Devi Bhagavata, Brahmavaivarta Purana.

> >

> > Shri Suka Brahman (son of Vyasa) extols Radha in Siddhantapradipa as the

Lila swarupa of Krishna and hence, there is NO SEPARATE EXISTENCE OF RADHA but

finds her presence ONLY IN KRISHNA.

> > Radha is an aspect of Krishna which is His hladini Sakti.

> >

> > Infact, Radha-Krishna lilas are dealt at length in Brahmavaivarta Purana and

the vyutpatti of Radha is given as:

> >

> > rashabdoccharanta bhakto rati muktim sudurlambham

> > dhashabdoccharanat durge dhavatyeya hareh padam //

> >

> > So, one can find the references in Devi Bhagavata & Brahmavaivarta Purana

abundantly.

> >

> > Later on, some of the vaishnavas usurped this concept and developed a cult

of their own.

> >

> > In Sakta / Vaishnava Tantras, Radha is described as the chief nayikas among

Gopikas and to enter into the Goloka, one has to seek the permission of Radha.

There is a Radhika Yantra and Mantra in Tantra sastra where rest of the Gods

become the attendant deities in avarana mandala.

> >

> > regs,

> > sriram

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Pranams learned members,

> > >

> > > Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where

Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna

and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

> > >

> > > Love & Light,

> > > Madhava

> > >

> > > advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > celibacy & dUrvAsa's hungry...this story would give a perfect naration

to

> > > > 'socalled' jnAni's activity in this phenomenal world!! Though rAdha

could

> > > > 'see' krishna's married life & his householder activity, though she

could

> > > > see dUrvAsa having lunch....

> > >

> >

>

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Namaste,

 

These two articles may give additional pointers:

 

http://www.swami.org/pages/swami/articles/bhagavata.php

 

http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?p=506 & more=1 & c=1 & tb=1 & pb=1

 

[if the link is split over 2 lines, one will have to copy/paste the whole URL].

------------------

 

Re: medieval saints in India,

 

The following book is often quoted:

 

" These two volumes of medieval Indian saints present an English translation of

Bhaktavijaya or Triumphs of Saints, a Marathi classic composed by Mahapati

(1715-1790), in verse. Both the author, and translator Justin E. Abott

(1853-1932), were born in Ahmednagar district of Maharashtra. Bhaktavijaya has

been hailed by Marathi scholars as a source book that beautifully depicts the

life and teachings of Indian saints.

 

It conveys atmosphere rather than exact history; provides ample biographical

material rather than biography, in the style of legends, highlighting the true

devotional spirit of the saints destined to be victorious while at war with

ignorance (avidya). "

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava wrote:

>

> Pranams Sri Sriram-ji, Bhaskar-ji and Ramesh-ji for helping me understand.

>

> Sriramji, I liked your pointers. Following are my thoughts after reading your

pointers:

 

>

> Actually my mind is searching for more answers, why is it Lord Krishna's

wives, and other known Hindu icons, are ignored by Saints born and brought up in

North India! especially those who lived there after 12th century.

 

>

>

> I am sorry but is there any academic book that points me to the historical

lives of Hindu saints in North India between 12th to 16th century?

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Pranams Sriram-ji,

 

I totally agree with your point " What is the evidence that 108 upanishads are

also genuine upanishads? " .... That is why I said that was a Hypothesis. I was

only curious to get to the right conclusion...

 

Sriramji, if suRadha could be accepted as Radha from Rigveda then " namaH

Sivaayaca Siva tarAyaca " also as a name mentioned of Lord Siva mentioned as

God. Same applies to " VishOrnukaM veeryANi pravOcaM yaH paardhivAni vimamE

rajaaguMsi yO askbhaaya... " :-)

 

Searching for Radhaji, personally for me, has become like finding that Higsboson

in Large Hadron collider... I am going only in cycles reaching back to the point

where I started :-)

 

Thank you again for your kind reply.... I have a lot to learn so please don't

mind my curiosity.

 

Love & Light,

Madhava

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Venkata Sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> Pranams Madhavji,

>

> What is the evidence that 108 upanishads are also genuine upanishads? They are

also of later origin. Probably, that is why Acharya Sankara wrote commentaries

only to 10 principal upanishads.

>

> As regarding the Krishna banning the Indra puja, yes, there are certain

controversies around Krishna attacking the vedic worships and vedic rituals.

Infact, He stopped the popular utsav which was celebrated by then villagers

called *Indrotsav " . So, the popular customs and local folklore took ugly turn

which became a dogma again like the " Karma Kanda Mania " of Purva Mimamsakas.

>

> regs,

> sriram

>

>

> advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava@> wrote:

> >

> > Pranams Sri Sriram-ji, Bhaskar-ji and Ramesh-ji for helping me understand.

> >

> > Sriramji, I liked your pointers. Following are my thoughts after reading

your pointers:

> >

> > 1) Unfortunately we know that a lot of upanishads are written by sanskrit

scholars who wanted to advance their own position; who wanted to advocate their

own school of thought. For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God) and

Sailopanishad (Sermon on the mount) stand as a solid evidence to this kind of

hypothesis. Same way we know that Brahmavaivarta is heavily interpolated. So

we can't take any upanishad for granted unless it is one of those 108 mentioned

in Mouktika Upanishad.

> >

> > 2) We also know that Indra has challenged Lord Srikrishna, when Krishnaji

advised the gopas to offer prayers to him instead of Indra. The incident

narrated in Bhagawata regarding Govardhanagiri vrittanta clearly mentions about

Indra. This is the same Indra who is mentioned in Rigveda. So this giving rise

to a lot of further doubts in me. We know Radha is used as an adjective

" suRadha " . I guess there is also a possibility of several individuals having

the name Radha.

> >

> > Actually my mind is searching for more answers, why is it Lord Krishna's

wives, and other known Hindu icons, are ignored by Saints born and brought up in

North India! especially those who lived there after 12th century.

> >

> > I know that when Tulsidas-ji was roaming on the streets of Varanasi, there

was no Temple of Lord Siva... A major portion of Ramayana (uttarakanda) is

discarded....

> >

> > Same way Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.. Instead of the known eight wives of

Lord Krishna, Radhaji came in to prominance... I am thinking may be there were

major influences in their lives that we, now a days, not privy to or we don't

understand which gave rise to different kind of faith icons instead of icons

that Hindus were much familiar with...

> >

> > I am sorry but is there any academic book that points me to the historical

lives of Hindu saints in North India between 12th to 16th century?

> >

> > Anyway, thank you for all these pointers. Thank you very much from the

bottom of my heart.

> >

> > Love & Light,

> > Madhava

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > advaitin , " Venkata Sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Pranams Madhav,

> > >

> > > The word " rAdhA " finds its mention in Rg Veda where Indra is extolled as

Radha-Pati. The compilation of " Indra Sahasranama " by my great-grandfather finds

this name.

> > >

> > > The Rg vedic Indra is the chief & principal deity during vedic times whose

is equalled to the Supreme Purusha. The chief objective of Rg vedic suktas is

to know Indra and called Indra Vidya. It is the Indra which was the Supreme God

in vedic times alongwith Agni, Marut, Matarishvan, Usha, Ila, Vak.

> > >

> > > Slowly, at the time of puranas, Siva / Vishnu got prominance and the vedic

gods were relegated to secondary position. So, Vishu is the puranic god whose

vedic source is Indra.

> > >

> > > Radha is traced back to the vedic rk " Atarishurbharata sukta " of Rg veda

where several ladies (gopikas) are referred to as worshipping the Indra in

Goloka. There is a term called " surAdha " which in tantra represents the Gopika

Mandala.

> > >

> > > Some of the authoritative texts are Radhika Tapini Upanishad,

Radhopanishad, Devi Bhagavata, Brahmavaivarta Purana.

> > >

> > > Shri Suka Brahman (son of Vyasa) extols Radha in Siddhantapradipa as the

Lila swarupa of Krishna and hence, there is NO SEPARATE EXISTENCE OF RADHA but

finds her presence ONLY IN KRISHNA.

> > > Radha is an aspect of Krishna which is His hladini Sakti.

> > >

> > > Infact, Radha-Krishna lilas are dealt at length in Brahmavaivarta Purana

and the vyutpatti of Radha is given as:

> > >

> > > rashabdoccharanta bhakto rati muktim sudurlambham

> > > dhashabdoccharanat durge dhavatyeya hareh padam //

> > >

> > > So, one can find the references in Devi Bhagavata & Brahmavaivarta Purana

abundantly.

> > >

> > > Later on, some of the vaishnavas usurped this concept and developed a cult

of their own.

> > >

> > > In Sakta / Vaishnava Tantras, Radha is described as the chief nayikas

among Gopikas and to enter into the Goloka, one has to seek the permission of

Radha. There is a Radhika Yantra and Mantra in Tantra sastra where rest of the

Gods become the attendant deities in avarana mandala.

> > >

> > > regs,

> > > sriram

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Pranams learned members,

> > > >

> > > > Please can someone point me to the Bhagawata and Purana references where

Radhaji appears? I am curious why is she not one of the 8 wives of Lord Krishna

and I would like to study more of her. Thank you.

> > > >

> > > > Love & Light,

> > > > Madhava

> > > >

> > > > advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > celibacy & dUrvAsa's hungry...this story would give a perfect naration

to

> > > > > 'socalled' jnAni's activity in this phenomenal world!! Though rAdha

could

> > > > > 'see' krishna's married life & his householder activity, though she

could

> > > > > see dUrvAsa having lunch....

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Pujya Sundarji,

 

Pranams! Now a days I am spending my time in British Library in London (just a

convenient 30 minutes away from my work place).

 

The curator of Asian Languages was kind enough to point me to Bhaktavijaya which

I read with all curiosity. Fortunately it talks a lot about their wonderful

faith... it is no doubt glorious... I am fortunate to read the book. But I am

looking more for the History surrounding these saints...

 

 

By the way, last Friday I had one of the most wonderful moments of my life. The

curator of British Library wanted me to help her with some talapatra gramthams

in telugu. One of them is " Gajendra Moksha " of Sri Potana... I felt blessed to

hold a talapatra gramdham written so long back.

 

My search for Radhaji is leading me to nice discoveries :-)

 

Love & Light,

Madhava

 

 

advaitin , " sunderh " <sunderh wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> These two articles may give additional pointers:

>

> http://www.swami.org/pages/swami/articles/bhagavata.php

>

> http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?p=506 & more=1 & c=1 & tb=1 & pb=1

>

> [if the link is split over 2 lines, one will have to copy/paste the whole

URL].

> ------------------

>

> Re: medieval saints in India,

>

> The following book is often quoted:

>

> " These two volumes of medieval Indian saints present an English translation

of Bhaktavijaya or Triumphs of Saints, a Marathi classic composed by Mahapati

(1715-1790), in verse. Both the author, and translator Justin E. Abott

(1853-1932), were born in Ahmednagar district of Maharashtra. Bhaktavijaya has

been hailed by Marathi scholars as a source book that beautifully depicts the

life and teachings of Indian saints.

>

> It conveys atmosphere rather than exact history; provides ample biographical

material rather than biography, in the style of legends, highlighting the true

devotional spirit of the saints destined to be victorious while at war with

ignorance (avidya). "

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

> advaitin , " mturumella " <madhava@> wrote:

> >

> > Pranams Sri Sriram-ji, Bhaskar-ji and Ramesh-ji for helping me understand.

> >

> > Sriramji, I liked your pointers. Following are my thoughts after reading

your pointers:

>

> >

> > Actually my mind is searching for more answers, why is it Lord Krishna's

wives, and other known Hindu icons, are ignored by Saints born and brought up in

North India! especially those who lived there after 12th century.

>

> >

> >

> > I am sorry but is there any academic book that points me to the historical

lives of Hindu saints in North India between 12th to 16th century?

>

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The Allopanishad is a medieval forgery by a convert to Islam during

Akbar's reign, ostensibly to win the favour of the Mullahs. The Mughal

chronicler Badayuni records how this convert became a laughing stock

in Akbar's court. Akbar was a rabid Muslim fanatic during the earlier

part of his reign, but had a change of heart over time and practically

became an apostate over the later part of his life.

 

2009/11/12 Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr

>

>

>

> For example Allopanishad (depecting Allah as God)

>

> praNAms

>

> Hare Krishna

>

> I heard in a discourse (I think given by shatavadhAni R Ganesh) on minor

upanishads that Allopanishad is NOT on the god of muslims 'allah'....one of the

meaning of alla is amma and this upanishad is on amma i.e. devi mAtAji.  Sri

Sunder prabhuji, any pointers on this upanishad??

>

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2009/11/12 Venkata Sriram <sriram_sapthasathi

 

 

 

 

 

Pranams Madhavji,

 

What is the evidence that 108 upanishads are also genuine upanishads? They are also of later origin. Probably, that is why Acharya Sankara wrote commentaries only to 10 principal upanishads.

And what is your criteria for " genuineness " ? From a historian's perspective, all Upanishads were composed at some time or the other. So what if some of them are of later origin? If Katha came after Brhadaranyaka, does that make it less genuine?

The list of 108 in the Muktika is accepted by many traditional scholars. Sri Ramachandrendra Saraswati, better known as Upanishad Brahmayogin, wrote commentaries on all of them. The Sringeri Acharya-s accept these 108 as shruti. What else is needed?  

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praNAms Sri Sriram prabhuji

Hare Krishna

Sri Sriram prabhuji :

Where in Shatarudriya mentioned the Siva as the upasya

devata. Except in the anuvaka " namah somaya cha.. " It is the

Rudra in the form of Agni which is the upasya in Shatarudirya. Moreover,

nowhere the name Siva comes in satarudriya except in the Namah somaya anuvaka.

bhaskar :

yAta isshuH shivatama shivaM babhuva te dhanuH, shiva sharavyAya

tavatayAno rudra mrudaya, yAte rudra shiva tanUra ghOra pApakAshineem...shivaM

giritratAm kuruma higimseeH prusham jagat, shivena vachasAtva girishAcchAvadAmasi..shata

rudreeya has these mantra-s initially before namaH somAyacha anuvAka wherein

you can find the name 'Siva' lot of times And also namaH shivayacha,

shivatarayacha, namaH shambhavecha mayObhavecha, namaH shankarAyacha, mayaskarAyacha

etc.. and at the concluding maNtra-s '''shivAbhimarshanaH " !! I

am surprising to see you are telling ONLY in namaH sOmAyacha anuvAka you

find 'Siva' name. It is rudra/shiva/shankara/shambhu who is also

agni is the pradhAna devata in shatarudreeya. Kindly see mahAnArAyaNa

upanishat " shivename saNtishTasva, syOnename saNtishTasva etc.

Sri Sriram prabhuji :

Moreover, it is the Agni which is the upasya. rudro va

eshad agnih says the srutih.

bhaskar :

yO rudro agnauyO apsuya Oshadheesu...yO rudrO vishvA bhuvana

vivesha tasmai rudrAya namO astu..says rudram..so IMO, it is shiva who

is agni, vAyu, sUrya is the upAsya devata..(tadevAgni, tadvAyu, tadsUrya,

tadu chandramAh) BTW, this type of atharvaNi maNtra-s we can find

in ganeshArthava sheersham, athrvaNi sUryOpanishat, shivOpanishat etc.

 

 

Sri Sriram prabhuji :

 

Narayana sukta describes the Agni that is present in Hridaya Akasa.

bhaskar :

since there is a mention of vaikunTa lOka in the nArAyaNa

(laghu nArAyaNa upanishat) and since krishna says in geeta that in ashtva

vasu he is agni. vaishNava-s argue that it is nArAyaNa ONLY (who is vaikuNTAdhipati)

the upAsya devata.

Sri Sriram prabhuji :

 

Vishnu Sukta extols the Trivikrama swarupa rupa Agni that has spread itself

in three vyahritis Bhu, Bhuvah & Suvah. These 3 vyahritis are the three

steps taken by Trivikrama. Bhu is presided by Agni, Bhuvah by Indra and

Suvah by Aditya. The 4th is the " Parame Voman " as described in

Rg Veda or the Supreme Heavens.

bhaskar :

I think Sri mAdhava prabhuji, has raised some valid points

with regard to this & quoted vishnOrnukam veeryANi pravOcham.. etc.

BTW, hreeschate laksheeshcha patnau..etc. in purusha sUkta proves that

it is favouring nArAyaNa.

Sri Sriram prabhuji :

 

Similarly, Mahanarayana Upanishad which describes the Agni that has entered

in Eternal Waters called Apah.

 

Even if the terms Siva & Vishnu are mentioned they are the attributes

of Agni as Auspicious & Omnipresence tattvas of Agni or Jatavedas.

Even the Srisukta extols this Jatavedas as Hiranyavarnam Harinim.....Jataveda

ma avaha.

bhaskar :

but I think padmini, padmahaste, padmadaLAya tAkshi, vishNu

priye, vishNu manOnukule etc. tAma Avaha lakshmeem anapagAmineem

etc. points towards 'shree' i.e. lakshmi..For that matter even durgA sUkta

(jAtavedase sunavAma sOma marAteeyato nidahAti vedaH) also is about

agni, but dont we use it in devi ArAdhana??

 

regs,

sriram

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

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Pranams Bhaskarji,

 

Slowly i would answer your questions.

 

RUDRA TATTVA

 

In Veda, the Parama Purusha which is non-different from Agni manifests itself in

3-fold ie., Agni in Prithvi (Bhu), Agni in Mid Air (Vydyutagni Agni) (Bhuvah),

Agni in Sun (Sauragni) (Suvah). This Vyudyutagni, which is non-different from

Indra, an aspect of Rudra in Mid Air, which is the chief controller of Marut and

Vaayu is considered as Father of Marut Ganas. This Indra-Agni Shakti is always

associated with Visvedevatas and Maruts (Vaayu).

This two-fold aspect of Bhagavan Rudra ie., Indra-Vayu combined, rule the Mid

Air where Earth and Heaven meet. This Vyudyutagni is said to have holding the

weapon " Thunder Bolt " . This couple Marut-Vaayu is also called Mukhya Praana or

Sreshta Praana in Veda.

 

It is this two-fold Agni that is Indra-Vaayu that presides over the Mid Air

becoming 11-fold pervading in 11 different directions (in 10 directions + 1 in

the Middle). These are the Ekadasa (11) Rudras. They are i) Prabhrajamanah (The

Refulgent) 2) Vyavadatah (The All-Spreading) 3) Vaasuki Vyudyutah (The Lightning

of Indra) 4) Rajatah (The Silvery One) 5) Syamah (The Darkish One) 6)Kapilah

(The Jet Black One)7) Lohitah (The Red One)8) Ati Lohitah (The Ruddish

One) 9) Urdhvah (The Upward Going One)10) Apavantah (The Descending

One)11)Vyudyutah (The Lightening One). These 11 Rudras pervade in 8 directions,

(1)one above, (1) one below and one in the Middle along with their Rudranis.

 

Among the above list, couple of rudras are differently mentioned in Aruna

Prashna.

 

The 11th Rudra which is in the Middle, is the heart of everything, the Antaryami

of Jiva and Parama Purusha. This 11th Rudra inspires the individual along with

his 10 aspects presiding over 10 pranas, 5 jnanendriyas and 5 karmendriyas of

the Jiva. These 11 rudras pervade the three worlds in Bhu, Bhuvah, Suvah. 10

rudras (excluding the middle one) each become 10-fold again. So, 10x10 = 100

rudras. These sata (100) rudras are extolled in Rudra Adhyaya and hence, it is

called Sata Rudriya.

 

This Rudra is Ghora & Aghora swarupa. The arrows of the Rudra are

Anna (food), Vaata (Wind) & Varsha (Rain). Ghora rupa Rudra punishes the jivas

with famine (lack of food), diseases related to vaata dosha, floods (excessive

rain). Aghora Rudra bestows nourishment with good harvest of paddy (food),

timely rains, vitality, medicinal plants and vitality.

 

Hence, when we are praying Rudra to put down his arrows (ie., food, wind &

rain), it implies that please don't show your ghora rupa in the form of floods,

famine, drought, pangs of hunger etc.

 

VISHNU TATTVA

 

As per the niruktakara Shri Yaska, Vishnu tattva points towards the Principle of

Aditya. Vishnu Sukta describes the Aditya having expanded in three lokas ie.,

Prithvi, Antariksha and Dyu Lokas which denote the 3 subtle planes of

consciousness presided by Agni, Vydyutagni and Saura Agni. They also represent

the 3 vyahritis bhuh, bhuvah & suvah. These 3 planes of Consciousness is

described in " vedic symbolism " as the 3 steps of " Vishnu " or " Trivikrama " .

 

Sakapuni explains this Vishnu Sukta from " Agni " point of view whereas the

Niruktakara explains from " Aditya " perspective. Whatever may be the principle,

it is the Trivikrama tattva that is contemplated here (viseshena kramana

kritavan) ie., conquering and extending Himself into a triple-fold Consciousness

with His 3 Strides on Earth, Atmosphere & Heaven. And such a Trivikrama having

expanded Himself in 3 planes with his 3 strides has become all-pervasive ie.,

sarva-vyapaka (vish dhatu or vi+upasya with asi dhatu denotes the sarva-vyapti).

Vishnu means " all-pervasive principle " .

 

Hence, such an Aditya is also called Trivikrama (due to His 3-fold expansion)

and also Vishnu (due to His deep penetration in the pindanda & brahmanda &

all-pervasiveness).

 

This stride of three-fold movement of Trivikrama denotes the Journey of Jivatma

towards the supreme goal from physical gross.

 

Now, among the 3 strides of the Trivikrama, the first 2 strides (or the 2 planes

of consciousness) can be perceived by Ordinary Mortals. But the 3rd Stride of

3rd Plane of Consciousness is the TRANSCEDENTAL STATE which is described as

" PARAMA PADAM " in this Vishnu Sukta (Ref: tat vishnoh parama padam sadA

pashyanti surayah diviva chakshuh atatam). It is this PARAMA PADAM that has

also created 7-lokas or 7-planes of Consciousness with the help of Saptha (7)

Chandas. The first rk of the Sukta indicates this with the term " saptha

dhAmabhih " .

 

It is also this same transcendantal principle that moves alongwith Indra and

hence called " Indrasya Yujya Sakha " .

 

I will also come to what is " Sri " in Srisukta & what is " Durga " in Durga Sukta.

Paramatmanam shrayate iti shrih which is the " Lusture " of Agni and " Durga " is

the Agni swarupa as refered by Shri Vidyaranya which is mentioned in Vanadurga

Kalpa which would be dealt next time.

 

With regs,

sriram

 

 

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> praNAms Sri Sriram prabhuji

> Hare Krishna

> Sri Sriram prabhuji :

> Where in Shatarudriya mentioned the Siva as the upasya devata. Except in

> the anuvaka " namah somaya cha.. " It is the Rudra in the form of Agni which

> is the upasya in Shatarudirya. Moreover, nowhere the name Siva comes in

> satarudriya except in the Namah somaya anuvaka.

> bhaskar :

> yAta isshuH shivatama shivaM babhuva te dhanuH, shiva sharavyAya

> tavatayAno rudra mrudaya, yAte rudra shiva tanUra ghOra

> pApakAshineem...shivaM giritratAm kuruma higimseeH prusham jagat, shivena

> vachasAtva girishAcchAvadAmasi..shata rudreeya has these mantra-s

> initially before namaH somAyacha anuvAka wherein you can find the name

> 'Siva' lot of times And also namaH shivayacha, shivatarayacha, namaH

> shambhavecha mayObhavecha, namaH shankarAyacha, mayaskarAyacha etc.. and

> at the concluding maNtra-s '''shivAbhimarshanaH " !! I am surprising to see

> you are telling ONLY in namaH sOmAyacha anuvAka you find 'Siva' name. It

> is rudra/shiva/shankara/shambhu who is also agni is the pradhAna devata in

> shatarudreeya. Kindly see mahAnArAyaNa upanishat " shivename

> saNtishTasva, syOnename saNtishTasva etc.

> Sri Sriram prabhuji :

> Moreover, it is the Agni which is the upasya. rudro va eshad agnih says

> the srutih.

> bhaskar :

> yO rudro agnauyO apsuya Oshadheesu...yO rudrO vishvA bhuvana vivesha

> tasmai rudrAya namO astu..says rudram..so IMO, it is shiva who is agni,

> vAyu, sUrya is the upAsya devata..(tadevAgni, tadvAyu, tadsUrya, tadu

> chandramAh) BTW, this type of atharvaNi maNtra-s we can find in

> ganeshArthava sheersham, athrvaNi sUryOpanishat, shivOpanishat etc.

>

> Sri Sriram prabhuji :

>

> Narayana sukta describes the Agni that is present in Hridaya Akasa.

> bhaskar :

> since there is a mention of vaikunTa lOka in the nArAyaNa (laghu nArAyaNa

> upanishat) and since krishna says in geeta that in ashtva vasu he is agni.

> vaishNava-s argue that it is nArAyaNa ONLY (who is vaikuNTAdhipati) the

> upAsya devata.

> Sri Sriram prabhuji :

>

> Vishnu Sukta extols the Trivikrama swarupa rupa Agni that has spread

> itself in three vyahritis Bhu, Bhuvah & Suvah. These 3 vyahritis are the

> three steps taken by Trivikrama. Bhu is presided by Agni, Bhuvah by Indra

> and Suvah by Aditya. The 4th is the " Parame Voman " as described in Rg Veda

> or the Supreme Heavens.

> bhaskar :

> I think Sri mAdhava prabhuji, has raised some valid points with regard to

> this & quoted vishnOrnukam veeryANi pravOcham.. etc. BTW, hreeschate

> laksheeshcha patnau..etc. in purusha sUkta proves that it is favouring

> nArAyaNa.

> Sri Sriram prabhuji :

>

> Similarly, Mahanarayana Upanishad which describes the Agni that has

> entered in Eternal Waters called Apah.

>

> Even if the terms Siva & Vishnu are mentioned they are the attributes of

> Agni as Auspicious & Omnipresence tattvas of Agni or Jatavedas. Even the

> Srisukta extols this Jatavedas as Hiranyavarnam Harinim.....Jataveda ma

> avaha.

> bhaskar :

> but I think padmini, padmahaste, padmadaLAya tAkshi, vishNu priye, vishNu

> manOnukule etc. tAma Avaha lakshmeem anapagAmineem etc. points towards

> 'shree' i.e. lakshmi..For that matter even durgA sUkta (jAtavedase

> sunavAma sOma marAteeyato nidahAti vedaH) also is about agni, but dont we

> use it in devi ArAdhana??

>

> regs,

> sriram

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

> bhaskar

>

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Mathuradas Trikumji in his letter to Mahatma Gandhi says that Allopanisad is from the time of Atharvaveda (circa 1000 BC). R. Ananthakrishna Sastri in his article on the Theosophist, volume 19, Madras 1898, gives a statement that Allopanishad does not appear in the characterictic style of ordinary Upanishads. It was written in the style of old Rigveda verses.

 

 

Friedrich Otto Schrader in “A Descriptive Catalogue of the Sanskrit Manuscripts in the Adyar Library Vol. I. Upanisads”, page 136, states that some years ago, a palm-leaf MS of Allopaniṣad was in the Adyar Library, but it was rejected by the then librarian. In the North India according to Schrader, Allopaniṣad is not only reckoned to the Atharvaveda, but actually recited by the Brahmins at the Vasantotsava or any occasion when selected texts of the four Vedas have to be read in the house of a Dvija.

 

 

Written in “Vol 94 of The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi”, page 234, Mahātmā Gāndhī said: “But no one who belongs to Hinduism can have reason to complain. We have 108 Upanishads. One of them is the Allopanishad.”

 

 

Even though, Swami Vivekananda believes that Allopaniṣad must be a modern creation and not genuine, but in the book “From Colombo to Almora” published by Vyjayanti Press Madras in 1897, there is a statement in its Glossary that Allopaniṣad is one of the 108 Upanishads.

 

 

Allah Sūkta is written in situs “www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/upanisads.htm”: Ācamana vedānta, Āzrama, advaita vedānta, alla zakta (Allopaniṣad), Ārseya vedānta, Ātharvan-advitīya zakta, and so forth.

 

 

Viśva Bandhu Śāstri has mentioned 200 Upanishads in his “Vaidika Padānukrama Kośa” (Lahore edition, 1945). In these 200 Upanishads, “Allāh Upaniṣad” (Allaḥ Sūkta or Allopaniṣad) is mentioned on the 12th position.

 

 

The Kalyan Magazine, the 23rd edition, published in 1949 by Gita Press of Gorakhpur has mentioned 220 Upanishads in its special issue named “Upanishad-Ank”; and Allopaniṣad is mentioned on the 15th position.

 

 

Allopaniṣad is mentioned in “Upanisatsamgraha” or ‘The List of 188 Upanishads’, page 392-93, published in 1970 by Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Private Limited in New Delhi.

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