Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:42 AM Re: Rumi > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be > aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read > about ? > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the > observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > Werner > A shadow cannot experience the sun. toombaru Nonetheless it is the very afirmation of it. No sun no shadow. Very good analogy. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:42 AM > Re: Rumi > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be > > aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read > > about ? > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the > > observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > toombaru > > Nonetheless it is the very afirmation of it. No sun no shadow. > Very good analogy. > -geo- > nice. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > toombaru > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 - wwoehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:13 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and > > be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have > > read about ? > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the > > observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > toombaru > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. Werner How many consciousnessess are there? 7?...9?...229? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > toombaru > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > Werner > Werner, many (myself included) speak of " oneness " of experiencing this. For me, it's my story of experiencing a sense of overwhelming separation that eventually became my quest, and so my life... to reconnect with this sense of loss. Along the way, I perceived an absence of myself....the void we all seem to try to avoid in one or another way. Do you feel a desire to *obtain* (for lack of a better word) this sense of *one-ness*? ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > toombaru > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > Werner > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? A concept cannot experience another concept. And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > > Werner, many (myself included) speak of " oneness " of experiencing this. For me, it's my story of experiencing a sense of overwhelming > separation that eventually became my quest, and so my life... to reconnect with this sense of loss. Along the way, I perceived an absence of myself....the void we all seem to try to avoid in one or another way. > > Do you feel a desire to *obtain* (for lack of a better word) this > sense of *one-ness*? > > ~A > No, Anna, I don't feel the desire. The reason might be that already some years ago I gave up to desire anything found in spiritual books. No more " I wanna have it too " ... Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > > Werner, many (myself included) speak of " oneness " of experiencing this. For me, it's my story of experiencing a sense of overwhelming > separation that eventually became my quest, and so my life... to reconnect with this sense of loss. Along the way, I perceived an absence of myself....the void we all seem to try to avoid in one or another way. > > Do you feel a desire to *obtain* (for lack of a better word) this > sense of *one-ness*? > > ~A > The self evolved and functions to prod the organism to seek its own comfort. It isn't wired to attain a sense of completion. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Werner, many (myself included) speak of " oneness " of experiencing this. For me, it's my story of experiencing a sense of overwhelming > > separation that eventually became my quest, and so my life... to reconnect with this sense of loss. Along the way, I perceived an absence of myself....the void we all seem to try to avoid in one or another way. > > > > Do you feel a desire to *obtain* (for lack of a better word) this > > sense of *one-ness*? > > > > ~A > > > > > No, Anna, > > I don't feel the desire. The reason might be that already some years ago I gave up to desire anything found in spiritual books. > > No more " I wanna have it too " ... > > Werner > Well then.....my little salt doll.....how about we go surfing? :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Werner, many (myself included) speak of " oneness " of experiencing this. For me, it's my story of experiencing a sense of overwhelming > > separation that eventually became my quest, and so my life... to reconnect with this sense of loss. Along the way, I perceived an absence of myself....the void we all seem to try to avoid in one or another way. > > > > Do you feel a desire to *obtain* (for lack of a better word) this > > sense of *one-ness*? > > > > ~A > > > > > No, Anna, > > I don't feel the desire. The reason might be that already some years ago I gave up to desire anything found in spiritual books. > > No more " I wanna have it too " ... > > Werner > Ok... I get that. I understand and feel that. My question, however, is since you're still on this/these groups, and you have still have something to say... that there is something that compels you onward... something you haven't *found* in books, could that be an experience you have not yet had? Or is this just something to do, while you're doing your time here on earth? ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:27 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that > > > and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you > > > have read about ? > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the > > > observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > toombaru > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an > experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. > And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to > eventually get communicated. > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or > whatever else as 'oneness'. > > Werner > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. -toom- Of course it is -geo- Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? A concept cannot experience another concept. And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > Werner > > > > > > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. > Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? > And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? > A concept cannot experience another concept.y > And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. > It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. > A very serious word, Toomb: It is time for you to stop calling the self or me a 'conceptual entity'. Better call it a collection of condioned responses fed by and revolving around the survival instinct. And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. Werner > > > > toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness.Werner For god sake werner..how many lives do you know? Or...how many existences are there? 1- existence of a tree; 2-existence of a chair; 3- existence of dogs; 4-existence of atable; 5-existence of a body;6 etc...etc...etc..???? Can you not see all those simply as existence.....per se? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? > And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? > A concept cannot experience another concept. > And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. > It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. > > toombaru > So who or what is it that *experiences*? That *incarnates*? That writes these words, ever RESPONDING...? It is life. I am life. Call it whatever. Or call it nothing. ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. > > Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? > > And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? > > A concept cannot experience another concept.y > > And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. > > It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. > > > > > A very serious word, Toomb: > > It is time for you to stop calling the self or me a 'conceptual entity'. > > Better call it a collection of condioned responses fed by and revolving around the survival instinct. Ok.....but calling it anything makes it a thing to the conceptual mind. That's the problem. > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > Werner > > > > And they never will. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:18 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience > > > > > that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, > > > > > something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and > > > > > the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any > > > > > 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an > > > experiencer which does experience something. There is only > > > consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of > > > consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling > > > or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. > > Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? > > And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? > > A concept cannot experience another concept.y > > And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. > > It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. > > > > > A very serious word, Toomb: > > It is time for you to stop calling the self or me a 'conceptual entity'. > > Better call it a collection of condioned responses fed by and revolving > around the survival instinct. Ok.....but calling it anything makes it a thing to the conceptual mind. That's the problem. > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > Werner > > > > And they never will. toombaru Werner's thougths?? Of course not. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm Anna, 'oneness before the word' ? Can you really experience that and be aware of it, or is this oneness just speculation, something you have read about ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I myself still am caught in the division between the observer and the observed and I am so sorry, I can't see and realize any 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shadow cannot experience the sun. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first glance your words seem wonderful, Toomb, > > > > > > > > but consciousness is all there is. There is no me or shadow or an experiencer which does experience something. There is only consciousness. And thought is categorizing the contents of consciousness in order to eventually get communicated. > > > > > > > > And, my thoughts at least, haven't categorized any sensation, feeling or whatever else as 'oneness'. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief that consciousness is all there is....is an overlay. > > > Is there such a thing as " consciousness " ? > > > And can this consciousness thing experience this " oneness' thing? > > > A concept cannot experience another concept.y > > > And a conceptual entity cannot experience one of its own concepts. > > > It's like.........trying to scrape the reflections off a river. > > > > > > > > > A very serious word, Toomb: > > > > It is time for you to stop calling the self or me a 'conceptual entity'. > > > > Better call it a collection of condioned responses fed by and revolving around the survival instinct. > > > > > > Ok.....but calling it anything makes it a thing to the conceptual mind. > > That's the problem. > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > And they never will. > > toombaru > Ok, Toomb, What about this: 'Better explain it as a collection of conditioned responses fed by and revolving around the survival instinct'. Using your term 'conceptual entity' opens the dood to misunderstandings. Some readers might think of an entity which is producing concepts and other readers might think that seeing it as an entity is a concept. But the question is who owns that concept ? One cannot deny that there is a collection of conditioned responses which is grouped around the survial instinct and fed by it. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > Werner P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth closing on my dick. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > Werner > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > closing on my dick. ) > Pete.....you are something else. :-) There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > :-) > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. Toomb, There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in consciousness. There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. Consciousness always comes later. Werner > > Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. > > The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. > > > > toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:40 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > Werner > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > closing on my dick. ) > Pete.....you are something else. :-) There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. toombaru So there is a void from where consciousness emerges...hmmmm -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090816-0, 17/08/2009 Tested on: 16/9/2009 17:23:29 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. -werner- Hmmm...so there is an initiator of things that is "before" consciousness. This is geting interesting. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Toomb, > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > consciousness. > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > Consciousness always comes later. > > Werner Consciousness is the malleable material (the building blocks of life) that morphs into what is. It is the tree, the computer keyboard, the LCD screen, the noise of the street. It is what is. Awareness of consciousness is sentience... all living things are aware according to their inherent nature. I suspect created objects such as tables may be aware... that is why its shape doesn't change unless the desire to uncreate it. What comes later is recognition. ~A children, dog, s > > > > > > Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. > > > > The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > :-) > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > Toomb, > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > consciousness. > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > Consciousness always comes later. > > Werner > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:40 PM > Re: Rumi > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > :-) > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach > but never transcend. > > Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. > > The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the > conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. > > toombaru > > So there is a void from where consciousness emerges...hmmmm > -geo- > > > > > Hell.....I don't know. But I do know it doesn't come from Barstow. :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
