Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 - toombaru Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:43 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:40 PM > Re: Rumi > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > :-) > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach > but never transcend. > > Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. > > The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the > conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. > > toombaru > > So there is a void from where consciousness emerges...hmmmm > -geo- > > > > > Hell.....I don't know. But I do know it doesn't come from Barstow. :-0 toombaru You said: " ...the Void out of which it all emerges. " . You even added a niiiiiice capital V to it. You know it....except when you start with your conceptual non-thinking LOL -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090816-0, 17/08/2009 Tested on: 16/9/2009 17:46:18 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > consciousness. > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > toombaru > Toomb, What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:43 PM > Re: Rumi > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:40 PM > > Re: Rumi > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > :-) > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach > > but never transcend. > > > > Too close to a black hole and every-thing evaporates. > > > > The enlightened life is spent slipping down the interface between the > > conceptual dream and the Void out of which it all emerges. > > > > toombaru > > > > So there is a void from where consciousness emerges...hmmmm > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell.....I don't know. > > But I do know it doesn't come from Barstow. > > :-0 > > toombaru > > You said: " ...the Void out of which it all emerges. " . You even added a > niiiiiice capital V to it. > You know it....except when you start with your conceptual non-thinking LOL > -geo- > > > > > > > Maybe it is Barstow. :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > consciousness. > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Toomb, > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > Werner > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. It is one thing about which nothing can be known. .....because its not a thing......it the center of thinging. Thinging in the reign.......juth thinging in the reign...... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. Toomb, I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. Werner > > It is one thing about which nothing can be known. > > ....because its not a thing......it the center of thinging. > > > Thinging in the reign.......juth thinging in the reign...... > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > Toomb, > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > Werner > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? Can you quote anybody? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? > Can you quote anybody? > > > > > toombaru > Toomb, Douglas already has asked me the same question. Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology for his findings and rearches about consciousness. It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of superstition and fairy-tales. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 > > Douglas already has asked me the same question. > > Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google > Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the > first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology > for his findings and rearches about consciousness. > > It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises > will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of > superstition and fairy-tales. > > Werner Yes, toomba. The neuroscientists know it all: sise, weight, speed...all of it. -geo- > > > > > > --- > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? > > Can you quote anybody? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Toomb, > > Douglas already has asked me the same question. > > Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology for his findings and rearches about consciousness. > > It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of superstition and fairy-tales. > > Werner > I have read Libet, Wittgenstein, Dennett, Hofstadter, Squire, etc. I don't remember any of them even being able to define " consciousness " . There is a reason for that. " The mind is in the world. The world is in the mind. " gives a hint. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? > > Can you quote anybody? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Toomb, > > Douglas already has asked me the same question. > > Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology for his findings and rearches about consciousness. > > It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of superstition and fairy-tales. > > Werner > I have a close friend who is a neuroscientist, associated with Cambridge & is a poet in the manner of English Romanticists. I can attest to the fact that regardless of what he knows, and to whom he has delivered his findings (lectures at Grisholm College, Stockholm Parliament, etc. etc..) He is a total human. So what's your point, Werner? ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? > > > Can you quote anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > Douglas already has asked me the same question. > > > > Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology for his findings and rearches about consciousness. > > > > It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of superstition and fairy-tales. > > > > Werner > > > > > I have a close friend who is a neuroscientist, associated with Cambridge & is a poet in the manner of English Romanticists. > > I can attest to the fact that regardless of what he knows, and to whom he has delivered his findings (lectures at Gresham College, Stockholm Parliament, etc. etc..) He is a total human. > > So what's your point, Werner? > > ~A > oops that should have been Gresham College. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > > > > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > > > > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think (LOL) that the " problem " lies in the fact that once the conceptual mind (the sum-total of the accumulated mnemonic debris and its persona) creates an object by giving it a name.....the object becomes the pseudo-reality that is then is scrutinized as if it were a substantial-existential reality in itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This process on not easily seen simply because the only tools that can be used to dissect it are the very things out of which it emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like a brain surgeon operating on his own brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very word " consciousness " creates an the idea that what-ever-this-sentient-introverted-focused.........thingy) is....it is a thing that is somehow able to investigate itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all quite hilarious when the process is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that we are attempting to articulate the same insights......but alas......we speak different dialects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > What I wrote you about consciousness I have learned from sticking my nose a bit into neuroscience. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, take it or leave it ... its up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuroscientists admit that they know no more about consciousness than we did a thousand years ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > I don't know where you have read that crap, but at least it is a fine excuse for your sluggish mind not to learn anew and to reorganize what you have learnt some or many more years ago. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which authors claim to know something about consciousness? > > > Can you quote anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > Douglas already has asked me the same question. > > > > Just google neuroscience or neuroscience and consciousness or google Benjamin Libet. He was a professor of psychology and neurology and was the first pschologist who received the alternative Nobel prize for psycology for his findings and rearches about consciousness. > > > > It can be rather exciting to delve into neuroscience and many suprises will wait for your mind who a lifelong was used to think in categories of superstition and fairy-tales. > > > > Werner > > > > > > I have read Libet, Wittgenstein, Dennett, Hofstadter, Squire, etc. > > I don't remember any of them even being able to define " consciousness " . > > There is a reason for that. > > " The mind is in the world. > The world is in the mind. " > gives a hint. > > toombaru > Nice, Toomb, You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. I will repeat it: " ........ > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. Toomb, There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in consciousness. There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. Consciousness always comes later. Werner .......... " Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 > Nice, Toomb, > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > :-) > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > Toomb, > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > consciousness. > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > Consciousness always comes later. > > Werner So, according to Werner, there is only consciousness. And consciousness always comes later. Later than something else that isn't consciousness. But, Werner says there is only consciousness. Hmmmm .... - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > consciousness. > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > Werner > > > > Consciousness is the malleable material (the building blocks of life) that morphs into what is. It is the tree, the computer keyboard, the LCD screen, the noise of the street. It is what is. > > Awareness of consciousness is sentience... all living things are aware according to their inherent nature. I suspect created objects such as tables may be aware... that is why its shape doesn't change > unless the desire to uncreate it. > > What comes later is recognition. > > > ~A What is, that depends not on recognition? It is not anything you recognize. It is here, now, unnoticed, unrecognized. It is not a feeling of being aware, not consciousness, not an experience, not a thought, not a feeling, not a memory, not a thing, not nothing. Recognition is of memory, is of the past. Recognition is knowing the table to be a table, things to be where they are, a feeling to be a feeling, a thought to be a thought. The recognizable takes care of itself. The unrecognizable is what is. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:42 PM Re: Rumi Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > :-) > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can > > approach but never transcend. > > > Toomb, > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and > concepts are created by thought. > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a > doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > consciousness. > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, > consciousness always comes later. Example: > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same > with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds > before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before > it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > Consciousness always comes later. > > Werner So, according to Werner, there is only consciousness. And consciousness always comes later. Later than something else that isn't consciousness. But, Werner says there is only consciousness. Hmmmm .... - D - Yes. And there is a real bang out there and consciousness, a few msecs later enters the scene and registers it. But remember: there is only consciousness! There is an initiator that is prior to consciousness but don't say there is anything beyond consciousness - there is only consciousness. I think I am beginning to see the light - finally! avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090816-0, 17/08/2009 Tested on: 16/9/2009 21:17:58 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. Werner > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:42 PM > Re: Rumi > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can > > > approach but never transcend. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and > > concepts are created by thought. > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a > > doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > consciousness. > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, > > consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same > > with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds > > before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before > > it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > Werner > > So, according to Werner, there is only consciousness. > > And consciousness always comes later. > > Later than something else that isn't consciousness. > > But, Werner says there is only consciousness. > > Hmmmm .... > > - D - > > Yes. And there is a real bang out there and consciousness, a few msecs later > enters the scene and registers it. But remember: there is only > consciousness! > There is an initiator that is prior to consciousness but don't say there is > anything beyond consciousness - there is only consciousness. I think I am > beginning to see the light - finally! > Geo, You make coments about something which you did not fully understand. The statement 'consciousness is all there is' just does say that if there is no cosciousness you wouldn't hear, see, sense, feel, smell etc. You would not know anything, no thought would get conscious, etc, in short there wouldn't exist anything you could know of. All the 'beyond' you are so proud of is just knowledge, learned stuff. And also that knowledge needs to get conscious else you would not know it. My tip is before you gossip with Dan or who ever you feel driven to to lean at, use your own mind and stand on your own feet. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > > > > > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. > > Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. > > It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. Is consciousness separate from the deductive intellect? If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. > > Werner Can one dissociate from either consciousness or the deductive intellect? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. > > > > Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. > > > > It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. > > Is consciousness separate from the deductive intellect? > > I did answer that question already, Toomb. > > > > > If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. > > > > Werner > > > > > Can one dissociate from either consciousness or the deductive intellect? > Just try it Toomb and then tell me the result. It could be fun ... Werner > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. > > > > > > Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. > > > > > > It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is consciousness separate from the deductive intellect? > > > > > > > I did answer that question already, Toomb. > > > > > > > > > > > > If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Can one dissociate from either consciousness or the deductive intellect? > > > > > Just try it Toomb and then tell me the result. It could be fun ... > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Tryin.......................tryin..................... ............it's haaaaaaaarrrrrd! toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. > > > > > > > > Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. > > > > > > > > It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is consciousness separate from the deductive intellect? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did answer that question already, Toomb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can one dissociate from either consciousness or the deductive intellect? > > > > > > > > > Just try it Toomb and then tell me the result. It could be fun ... > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Tryin.......................tryin..................... > > ...........it's haaaaaaaarrrrrd! > > Wow, Toomb, How does it feel, do you like it, is it fun ... please tell me quickly ... oh my God, I am so excited ! Werner > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You never have read Libet, Toomb, else you wouldn't have written all that nonsense about consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where does Libet say that consciousness can understand itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Libet nor I did say that. > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness doesn't understand anything, Toomb. > > > > > > > > > > It is the deductive intellect which creates understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is consciousness separate from the deductive intellect? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did answer that question already, Toomb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that understanding is made conscious then one might get the impression that it is consciousness which does understsand. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can one dissociate from either consciousness or the deductive intellect? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just try it Toomb and then tell me the result. It could be fun ... > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tryin.......................tryin..................... > > > > ...........it's haaaaaaaarrrrrd! > > > > > > > Wow, Toomb, > > How does it feel, do you like it, is it fun ... please tell me quickly ... oh my God, I am so excited ! > > Werner > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > LOL Silliness is a great place for conversations on consciousness to wind up. :-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I will repeat again. My thoughts, at least til now, haven't > > > > > > categorized any sensation or emotion as oneness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > P: I have, and when I feel oneness coming on, > > > > it's as if I have seen a woman's open mouth > > > > closing on my dick. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete.....you are something else. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > There is and edge that the sentient-conceptual-consciousness can approach but never transcend. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > There is no sentient-conceptual consciousness. The senses are sentient and concepts are created by thought. > > > > And consciousness never will approach anything. Consciouness is neither a doer nor does it initiate and start any action or activity. > > > > Actions start and have their root in subconsciousness but never in > > consciousness. > > > > There is a very simple rule to better understand consciousness, consciousness always comes later. Example: > > > > When you hear a bang it already happened some hundred msecs before. Same with seeing, sensing, feeling. Decisions are created up to 10 seconds before they get conscious. Any action and activity already started before it got conscious. Consciousness never is and was their initiator. > > > > Consciousness always comes later. > > > > Werner > > > So, according to Werner, there is only consciousness. > > And consciousness always comes later. > > Later than something else that isn't consciousness. > > But, Werner says there is only consciousness. > > Hmmmm .... > > - D - > he will understand....later... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 > Yes. And there is a real bang out there and consciousness, a few msecs > later > enters the scene and registers it. But remember: there is only > consciousness! > There is an initiator that is prior to consciousness but don't say there > is > anything beyond consciousness - there is only consciousness. I think I am > beginning to see the light - finally! > Geo, You make coments about something which you did not fully understand. The statement 'consciousness is all there is' just does say that if there is no cosciousness you wouldn't hear, see, sense, feel, smell etc. You would not know anything, no thought would get conscious, etc, in short there wouldn't exist anything you could know of. -w- And why do you think that what is beyond consciousness is anything to know off? The bang you talk about is " out " of consciousness and you dont know about it..but you talk about it The consciousness that neuroscientists talk about is a product of the brain...while consc. that K and we talk about is not a product of the brain. But you talk off them as if they where the same thing. Bananas are no identical to cats. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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