Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective universe. How strange. People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have over anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective universe. How strange. People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have over anything. geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look at itself. What are you trying to say?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > universe. > > How strange. > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have over > anything. > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > at itself. What are you trying to say?? People cannot look at themselves, either. And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > universe. > > > > How strange. > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have over > > anything. > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. P.S. " The king and his subjects " -- Apparently others can be seen as either " subjects " or " objects " . That's because neither subject nor object exist. They're fantasies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > universe. > > How strange. > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have > over > anything. > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > at itself. What are you trying to say?? People cannot look at themselves, either. And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. -tim- Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin of sense of self, I. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > universe. > > > > How strange. > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have > > over > > anything. > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > -tim- > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin of > sense of self, I. > -geo- The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > universe. > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have > > > over > > > anything. > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > -tim- > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin of > > sense of self, I. > > -geo- > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , whatever body is speaking. Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , whatever body is speaking. > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > Ok, let's play with it. Someone gave you a blow on your nose and it broke. When the doc asked you how did thast happen, you will tell: I gave me a blow on my nose. Then your wife who was accompanying you will say to the doc that it was the neighbour who did it but since you are into Advaita you got totally crazy and better should get locked off into a mental hospital. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , whatever body is speaking. > > > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > > > > > Ok, let's play with it. > > Someone gave you a blow on your nose and it broke. Not a promising start ;-). Let's end here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > objects in > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > universe. > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > have > > > over > > > anything. > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > as > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > look > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > -tim- > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > of > > sense of self, I. > > -geo- > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , whatever body is speaking. Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. geo> These are all funny games to play...I will try. Side note: I dont think the self is just " language " . As per the thread with dan, there is the fact that this body feels. The others dont. There is seeing through these eyes and not through others eyes. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 07:26:45 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective universe. > > How strange. > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have over anything. > hey....how are this asteroids doing in here?.... i mean all this fantastic subjects.... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Friday, June 19, 2009 7:34 AM Re: Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > objects in > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > universe. > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > have > > > over > > > anything. > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > as > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > look > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > -tim- > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > of > > sense of self, I. > > -geo- > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , whatever body is speaking. Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. geo> These are all funny games to play...I will try. Side note: I dont think the self is just " language " . As per the thread with dan, there is the fact that this body feels. The others dont. There is seeing through these eyes and not through others eyes. Of course...we are talking about the origin that caused the illusion. It is illusion. The need to preserve the body spilled into the need to preserve some inner observer. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 07:26:45 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 07:47:01 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting --One's own body is "you", and the other is "me". The speaker is always "I",whatever body is speaking.Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. geo> I am having a litlle difficulty with your game. How can I be them if I feel my guts in this body and dont feel theirs? How did you solve this problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , > whatever body is speaking. > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > > geo> I am having a litlle difficulty with your game. How can I be them if I feel my guts in this body and dont feel theirs? > How did you solve this problem? By not taking myself to be a body in the first place. I don't mean 'be disembodied'. I mean, don't assume that one is a body. The body is perceived (seen, felt, heard, etc) like other bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as objects in > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > universe. > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks have > > > over > > > anything. > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself as > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not look > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > -tim- > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin of > > sense of self, I. > > -geo- > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. > or maybe.... switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . enjoy the fiction, no choice about Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Friday, June 19, 2009 8:55 AM Re: Asteroids with memory Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , > whatever body is speaking. > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > > geo> I am having a litlle difficulty with your game. How can I be them if > I feel my guts in this body and dont feel theirs? > How did you solve this problem? By not taking myself to be a body in the first place. I don't mean 'be disembodied'. I mean, don't assume that one is a body. The body is perceived (seen, felt, heard, etc) like other bodies. geo> Maybe I was not clear. I feel pain in this body but not in others avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 09:01:34 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM Re: Asteroids with memory Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > objects in > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > universe. > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > have > > > over > > > anything. > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > as > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > look > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > -tim- > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > of > > sense of self, I. > > -geo- > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > or maybe.... switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . enjoy the fiction, no choice about Marc Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 09:04:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > > as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > > look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > or maybe.... > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > enjoy the fiction, > > no choice about > > Marc > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. > -geo- > > yes, make sense...no doubt .... missing you?....i'm here.... and there... like you too like the mountain and the river...and... Marc > > > > > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 > Tested on: 19/6/2009 09:04:36 > avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Friday, June 19, 2009 9:29 AM Re: Asteroids with memory Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an > > > > objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees > > > > himself > > > > as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can > > > > not > > > > look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > or maybe.... > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > enjoy the fiction, > > no choice about > > Marc > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. > -geo- > > yes, make sense...no doubt .... missing you?....i'm here.... and there... like you too like the mountain and the river...and... Marc What do you mean by you are there? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > > objects in > > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an > > > > > objective > > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > > have > > > > > over > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees > > > > > himself > > > > > as > > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can > > > > > not > > > > > look > > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > > of > > > > sense of self, I. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > > > > or maybe.... > > > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > > > enjoy the fiction, > > > > no choice about > > > > Marc > > > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it > > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? > > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. > > -geo- > > > > > yes, make sense...no doubt > > ... > > missing you?....i'm here.... > and there... > like you too > like the mountain and the river...and... > > Marc > > What do you mean by you are there? > -geo- you've got to be there guess. anyhow.. he means he's not here..he's there. hey just call whenever clarification is needed. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Friday, June 19, 2009 10:29 AM Re: Asteroids with memory Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > > objects in > > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an > > > > > objective > > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > > have > > > > > over > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees > > > > > himself > > > > > as > > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can > > > > > not > > > > > look > > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in > > > > an > > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the > > > > origin > > > > of > > > > sense of self, I. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false > > > data. > > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > > > myself > > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > > > > or maybe.... > > > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > > > enjoy the fiction, > > > > no choice about > > > > Marc > > > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way > > it > > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream > > it? > > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is > > me. > > -geo- > > > > > yes, make sense...no doubt > > ... > > missing you?....i'm here.... > and there... > like you too > like the mountain and the river...and... > > Marc > > What do you mean by you are there? > -geo- you've got to be there guess. anyhow.. he means he's not here..he's there. hey just call whenever clarification is needed. ..b b.b. Yes, he said here and there. I did not read well. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 19/6/2009 10:44:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > > objects in > > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an > > > > > objective > > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > > have > > > > > over > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees > > > > > himself > > > > > as > > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can > > > > > not > > > > > look > > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > > of > > > > sense of self, I. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > > > > or maybe.... > > > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > > > enjoy the fiction, > > > > no choice about > > > > Marc > > > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it > > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? > > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. > > -geo- > > > > > yes, make sense...no doubt > > ... > > missing you?....i'm here.... > and there... > like you too > like the mountain and the river...and... > > Marc > > What do you mean by you are there? > -geo- > oh...nothing special... it's like this your mentionned mountain which is also " there " ....and the tree....the river....etc Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > > as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > > look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , > whatever body is speaking. > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > > geo> These are all funny games to play...I will try. Side note: I dont think > the self is just " language " . As per the thread with dan, there is the fact > that this body feels. The others dont. There is seeing through these eyes > and not through others eyes. Well, that's the belief he's questioning. The seeing is the seeing of all seeing. It isn't a partialized seeing. The belief that this particular body is special and has a seeing that is its own, is a thought construction. Without the thought construction, seeing is just seeing, not partialized. The eyeball isn't seen from behind. The seeing is " all around, " so to speak. It is only when thought and memory get involved that seeing is partialized, and there is a sense that " this particular body has its own seeing and experiencing that belong to it. " I'm not saying that thought construction is wrong or bad or shouldn't happen. Clearly, thought functions happen and are not out of place. What I am saying, and what I think Tim is pointing to, is that seeing doesn't depend on thought constructions. And clarity is what is, when the distortions involved in trying to attach to thought constructions, drop. Dissolve. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 7:34 AM > Re: Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > > as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > > look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see > > myself when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > Try looking at it this way, ya may find it interesting -- > > One's own body is " you " , and the other is " me " . The speaker is always " I " , > whatever body is speaking. > > Play with this stuff... don't let language trap ya into beliefs in 'self'. > > geo> These are all funny games to play...I will try. Side note: I dont think > the self is just " language " . As per the thread with dan, there is the fact > that this body feels. The others dont. There is seeing through these eyes > and not through others eyes. > > Of course...we are talking about the origin that caused the illusion. It is > illusion. The need to preserve the body spilled into the need to preserve > some inner observer. Bodies only survive as long as they survive. There is no need for a construction of a " need to preserve the body. " Whose need? Bodies are designed not to be preserved indefinitely. Bodies include " automatic reactions. " Thought interprets these reactions as " need to preserve the body. " Then thought generates an " I " that " needs to preserve my body. " All of these thought formulations are interconnected. And all drop. Including the construction " there is a body-unit existing. " - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:58 AM > Re: Asteroids with memory > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > It's interesting how asteroids in an asteroid field are seen as > > > > objects in > > > > an objective universe, but people are seen as subjects in an objective > > > > universe. > > > > > > > > How strange. > > > > > > > > People are " asteroids with memory " . That's how much volition folks > > > > have > > > > over > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > geo> But wait a minute. Stay there. Dont go away. > > > > What do you mean by people are seen? Only EACH ONE person sees himself > > > > as > > > > subject. He sees other people as objects alright. An asteroid can not > > > > look > > > > at itself. What are you trying to say?? > > > > > > People cannot look at themselves, either. > > > And that's a fact, Jack. Anything you can look at, isn't you. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Ahh... I see :>). Maybe it is " people see themselves as subjects in an > > > objective universe " , right? That is the whole point...it is the origin > > > of > > > sense of self, I. > > > -geo- > > > > The 'sense of self' is nothing more than a belief, based on false data. > > Primarily, the notion that others see them, and they see others. > > > > Switch this to " Others see themselves when they see me, and I see myself > > when I see them " , and the situation changes. > > > > or maybe.... > > switch to " all is appearent real, means fiction " , included " yourself " . > > enjoy the fiction, > > no choice about > > Marc > > Yes, make sense. Enjoy materiality, objects, space, time..just the way it > is. That is the nature of the dream. Or do you doubt that IT can dream it? > The mountain is mountain again. The only thing that is missing now is me. > -geo- what appears, disappears. likewise, disappearance is appearance. something is nothing. nothing is something. mountain, cloud, ant, sky ... - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
