it's not there or over there either.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Who is the controller, and what is the controlled?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Is one separately existing, apart from the other?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - D -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There is no separation -obviously. In human interactions,

inteligence,

> > > > > > > > rationality, clarity, perception of the whole field rules in one

case, and

> > > > > > > > prejudice, fear, anger in the other. The results are very

different. Sense

> > > > > > > > of separation engenders fear and violence and the one in clarity

knows that.

> > > > > > > > Is this not obvious/clear?

> > > > > > > > What are wars, concentration camps,etc...? Could such events

happen if the

> > > > > > > > people involved acted guided by clarity?

> > > > > > > > -geo-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if " Clarity " is all that is claimed of it..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > how could it not be the Primal Cause and Guiding Force..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > of any and all things..states..behaviors..conditions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you be the judge.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clarity never judges.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that's funny.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that's what I said.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > gee, I guess you're not such a bad guru after all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - d -

> > > > >

> > > > > call me anything..

> > > > >

> > > > > call my mother anything...

> > > > >

> > > > > but don't call me a " guru " mofo!

> > > > >

> > > > > that's your sad ass wannabe trip.

> > > > >

> > > > > .b b.b.

> > > >

> > > > only you, my guru, could call me out so confidently, so wisely.

> > > >

> > > > you have put me in my place.

> > > >

> > > > i am screwed.

> > > >

> > > > i am up shit creek with no paddle.

> > > >

> > > > i am on a sad-ass trip.

> > > >

> > > > i am a wannabe.

> > > >

> > > > thanks for your pearls of wisdom.

> > > >

> > > > wonderful!

> > > >

> > > > - d -

> > >

> > > you still don't get it.

> > >

> > > it's not all about you yo-yo.

> > >

> > > .b b.b.

> >

> > yes, I'll never get it the way you got it.

> >

> > i'm a lost cause.

> >

> > maybe if I just keep repeating, this is bullshit, it's not about me yoyo.

> >

> > maybe in a hundred years i'll be one little step closer to being where

you're not.

> >

> > - d -

>

> there is absolutely nothing to gain.

>

> .b b.b.

no shit.

ya think?

- d -

>

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> And the same may be said about the human world with its objects and

> things

> and rivers and trees. It doesnt need to disapear either.

> -geo-

Nothing needs to happen.

Nothing needs to refrain from happening.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > calling people " asshole, " is something Nisargadatta would have

appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > > he wasted so much time talking about awareness.

> > > > >

> > > > > he could have just told people what assholes they are constantly.

> > > > >

> > > > > why didn't he think of that?

> > > > >

> > > > > - D -

> > > >

> > > > how the fuck am i supposed to know.

> > > >

> > > > ask him.

> > > >

> > > > he had his problems..

> > >

> > > Yeah, like being dead. How the fuck is Dan supposed to ask him?

> > >

> > > > i got mine..few though they seem to be.

> > >

> > > You got one problem... everyone else got many.

> > >

> > > Except everyone else is you, and you is everyone else.

> >

> > yes daniel you have all the answers.

> >

> > no matter how stupid they are..

> >

> > you'll use them in order to maintain your belief..

> >

> > that you know what the fuck your even talking about.

> >

> > i kind of am beginning to feel sorrow for you.

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> I thought you would never show that soft, caring side.

>

> finally.

>

> my work here is done.

>

> - d -

i don't think you understand the sorrow.

or you do lousy work.

..b b.b.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > in simpler more earthy terms..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yes, great.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks for letting us all know.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - d -

> > > > >

> > > > > What's interesting (from here) is why he's letting us all know over

and over and over and over again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Self-flagellation?

> > > >

> > > > I don't know.

> > > >

> > > > I'm willing to concede I'm full of shit, if we don't have to keep

> > > > revisiting the issue.

> > > >

> > > > - D -

> > >

> > > You don't need to concede anything. He does.

> > >

> > > But keep calling yourself " I " , and conceding. Maybe that'll help.

> >

> > " he " ???

> >

> > now boys!

> >

> > we must come together as One ...HERE NOW..

> >

> > stop fucking gossiping.

> >

> > you're making me blush.

> >

> > although i am a VIP..you know about that stuff dan.

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> would you like to hear again that you're way cool?

>

> okay, dude, you're way cool.

>

> plus, you have no ego.

>

> that is beyond VIP status, as far as I'm concerned.

>

> - d -

well you would know huh deputy God?

LOL!

..b b.b.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

>

> >

> > you hit everyone with your crutches..

> >

> > post after post.

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> i know.

>

> but that's the only way I can get you to bestow your wisdom upon me.

>

> hey, look, i even cleared off the rest of the message so you wouldn't have to

scroll down.

>

> that will save you some time, so you can get on to my next post.

>

> - d -

yes i know you have your trials and tribulations.

i don't.

..b b.b.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > calling people " asshole, " is something Nisargadatta would have

appreciated.

> > > >

> > > > he wasted so much time talking about awareness.

> > > >

> > > > he could have just told people what assholes they are constantly.

> > > >

> > > > why didn't he think of that?

> > > >

> > > > - D -

> > >

> > > how the fuck am i supposed to know.

> > >

> > > ask him.

> > >

> > > he had his problems..

> >

> > Yeah, like being dead. How the fuck is Dan supposed to ask him?

> >

> > > i got mine..few though they seem to be.

> >

> > You got one problem... everyone else got many.

> >

> > Except everyone else is you, and you is everyone else.

>

> yes daniel you have all the answers.

>

> no matter how stupid they are..

He is the Answer.

So are you, if you'd look at yourself.

Nonduality (the false kind) is all about pretending there's no self.

The real kind is about self-enquiry.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> >

> > You said that recognition of objects, location, time, presuposes an " I " -

> > YOU SAID THAT. So I said that there is an " I " over there because you

> > recognise the chair, the keyboard. So when you said that " recognition of

> > objects, location, time, presuposes an " I " is false.

> > -geo-

>

> To whom are the chair, keyboard, time to type, appearing?

>

> A disembodied consciousness that has no location and memory?

>

> How is memory connected, how are associations made, how is the meaning

> " chair " derived from stimuli appearing now?

>

> Without any " I, " without any observer, there wouldn't be any qualities

> brought forward to project as " chair. "

>

> geo> No, no, no. No dan!! You are really missing this. Consciousness

> involves the existence of this body. Where else could consciousness exist?

awareness.

awareness doesn't depend on consciousness existing.

that which neither exists nor doesn't exist, doesn't depend on something

existing.

> This same consciousness involves teh existence of an organic center as the

> body. This is part of consciusness. You can not dissolve this relation - to

> try to is error.

*this* is not about " you " doing anything.

you are not dissolving anything.

you are dissolving.

consciousness, the body, the world - none of it has a hold here.

it doesn't mean you can't see, feel, or type.

The body/consciousness together as one movement see chairs,

> tables, trees, stars, planets, the moon. Where is the need of an " I " ??

the " I " is a patterning, as are chairs, tables, trees, etc.

why would you single out one pattern to be gotten rid of?

in trying to do so, " you " are affirming yourself as the doer, the one who is

able to get rid of " I " - and have a special organically centered body-mind

experience.

That

> would involve a separte inner entity - there is none, as you know.

> The " observer " you mention is just the organism having relation with a chair.

> The body was made to see, touch, smell. NO need for an " I " at all.

> ===

It doesn't matter if you stop using the label " I " - there still is a center for

the mental associations that give the sense of an object being contacted.

And there is a center for emotional reactions, such as frustration or

irritation.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

It's part of the picture.

Nothing needs to be remedied!

Nothing needs to be gotten rid of or fixed!!!!!

>

> The chair is appearing to someone.

>

> The point is, that someone and the chair are actually not-two.

>

> To observe the chair, you need distance apart from it.

>

> So, there is the " I " in that distance between the observer and observed.

>

> That distance is necessary to give qualities to the chair.

>

> And understanding that " I " is " the chair " ... the distance dissolves.

>

> Now, no-I, no chair.

>

> geo> No. It is the organism and the chair as one movement as consciousness.

> No I is needed. The I is a psichological entity that gets offended, or is

> proud, or need love, or hates, or desires. There isno need of such qualities

> to sit on a chair.

There isn't any real entity getting offended.

There is the conditioned response of taking offense.

There is also conditioning when recognizing a chair.

Conditioning is conditioning.

The unconditioned is not subject to conditioning.

The unconditioned is not entering into states of being.

The unconditioned (that is your being) is not in a trance.

The unconditioned has never been conditioned, and there is nothing for it (who

is one's being) to get rid of.

It is neither being nor not-being.

There is no conditioning involved, ever.

- D -

> ===

>

> So, it is not that chairs appear out of thin air to no one, or to

> disembodied consciousness.

>

> It is that the " I " (embodied consciousness, with memory, with an orientation

> in time and space) and " the chair " are not two, and any separation and

> experience dissolves ... now.

>

> this is nothing, no-thing.

>

> this is now.

>

> I know it sounds like two different worlds or states are being discussed,

> but it is not two different states.

>

> It is the conventional way of experiencing, and the no-experience, which

> Nis. calls " the absolute. "

>

> Simultaneous.

>

> There is no " ego " to get rid of, in other words.

>

> Not here, and not " out there " - which is not separate from here.

>

> - D -

>

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > calling people " asshole, " is something Nisargadatta would have

appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > > he wasted so much time talking about awareness.

> > > > >

> > > > > he could have just told people what assholes they are constantly.

> > > > >

> > > > > why didn't he think of that?

> > > > >

> > > > > - D -

> > > >

> > > > how the fuck am i supposed to know.

> > > >

> > > > ask him.

> > > >

> > > > he had his problems..

> > >

> > > Yeah, like being dead. How the fuck is Dan supposed to ask him?

> > >

> > > > i got mine..few though they seem to be.

> > >

> > > You got one problem... everyone else got many.

> > >

> > > Except everyone else is you, and you is everyone else.

> >

> > yes daniel you have all the answers.

> >

> > no matter how stupid they are..

>

> He is the Answer.

>

> So are you, if you'd look at yourself.

>

> Nonduality (the false kind) is all about pretending there's no self.

>

> The real kind is about self-enquiry.

by inquiring into itself..

the self creates a duality that is not actual.

it sets up itself as a distinction that requires inquiry.

Kwatz!

..b b.b.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > in simpler more earthy terms..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yes, great.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks for letting us all know.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - d -

> > > > >

> > > > > What's interesting (from here) is why he's letting us all know over

and over and over and over again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Self-flagellation?

> > > >

> > > > I don't know.

> > > >

> > > > I'm willing to concede I'm full of shit, if we don't have to keep

> > > > revisiting the issue.

> > > >

> > > > - D -

> > >

> > > You don't need to concede anything. He does.

> > >

> > > But keep calling yourself " I " , and conceding. Maybe that'll help.

> >

> > Maybe, but doubtful.

> >

> > Consider that I'm conceding, because I understand he's addicted to an

aggressive stance, and won't concede.

> >

> > I don't think it's just the nuns, either.

> >

> > Some real darkness this dude has gone through.

> >

> > So, allow me to be the one who concedes.

> >

> > - d -

>

> oh holy and sanctimonious dan..

>

> fuck off.

>

> LOL!

>

> .b b.b.

thanks!

I'm glad you liked that one.

- d -

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If there is clarity, nobody is there to try anything or not.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > geo> Indeed. Only clarity, an organsim and the circumstances.

> > > > > > > > > Intelligence acts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There's no need for 'the organism' either... it's in awareness

> > > > > > > > (clarity),

> > > > > > > > along with the entire situation, every thought, sight, smell,

etc. In

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > words, 'the organism' need not be separated from the

circumstances.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > geo> Yes, the same. One can break down plurality/diversity as

much as

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > wants.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I dont know what you have in mind. Maybe something I am not

getting. As

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > wrote to bbb:

> > > > > > > > There are glasses of coke, coffee, tea, wisky on the table. You

stick

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > arm out and pick up the one you choose, or dont. Where is the

need for a

> > > > > > > > self for this? Where is the need of a " controler " for this.

There is

> > > > > > > > none.

> > > > > > > > If the controler, the inner entity, teh imagined center is

there,

> > > > > > > > actions

> > > > > > > > take a different direction then without those.That is all I am

saying.

> > > > > > > > -geo-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > because you imagine there are two sets of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and who can form this imagining, other than an " I " that is

separated from

> > > > > > > the people being categorized?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - d -

> > > > > > > geo>Do I need an " I " to see the color of her hair or skin? Do I

need an I

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > recognise when a person is so angry that is about to shoot?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Call it " I " or call it " the observer, " whatever you wish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are located as a subject to which an object can appear and be

> > > > > > understood.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You understand that you are looking at someone with red hair.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > geo> No. That is just how the organism manages to live in the human

world.

> > > > > > If it is the way you say, how can you talk about awareness and

selflessness

> > > > > > and atemporality in this list? You must see the keyboard, its

color..etc...

> > > > > > So all that is just theory, hipocrisy? BTW, you are being an

hipocrit right

> > > > > > now, are you not?

> > > > > > ===

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That experience is of the past.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Redness is based on memories of red.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hair is based on memories of hair.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The distance between you and the one you observe is based on

memories of

> > > > > > distance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The same with the person who is angry.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The same with any experience, any perception that involves

recognizable

> > > > > > qualities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any experience that involves time (duration) and space (location).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > geo> The human world dan, that is the human world.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - D -

> > > > >

> > > > > dan prefers DannyWorld.

> > > > >

> > > > > everything is possible there and he and his funny ears is GOD.

> > > > >

> > > > > .b b.b.

> > > >

> > > > no, you are god

> > > >

> > > > because you have the divine right to label other people as assholes.

> > > >

> > > > and to say that they don't exist.

> > > >

> > > > and to call them names again.

> > > >

> > > > and to say that nothing exists.

> > > >

> > > > and to tell others that they think they are god.

> > > >

> > > > and they are spouting bullshit.

> > > >

> > > > only god could be doing that.

> > > >

> > > > thank you, your holiness.

> > > >

> > > > - d -

> > >

> > > i know who i am.

> > >

> > > i find worship and worshipers equally insignificant.

> > >

> > > .b b.b.

> >

> > i know who you are, so I worship you.

> >

> > you are way cool, dude.

> >

> > you are the light of this list.

> >

> > but since you don't post enough, I'll have to double my output just to hold

a little candle to your magnificence.

> >

> > - d-

>

> ah ha!

>

> the little green eyed monster sticks his puny little dickhead out.

>

> :-)

>

> .b b.b.

i've had enough for now.

as wonderful as you are, i have important matters to attend to.

i've enjoyed our little chat, as always.

- d -

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> > try some originality daniel.

> >

> > and keep it straight!

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> hey, I'm as straight as an arrow.

>

> flying straight to your heart.

>

> - d -

OK, sweethearts... I hear wedding bells and I'm not invited, so I'm outta here

;-).

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> > ah ha!

> >

> > the little green eyed monster sticks his puny little dickhead out.

> >

> > :-)

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> i've had enough for now.

>

> as wonderful as you are, i have important matters to attend to.

>

> i've enjoyed our little chat, as always.

>

> - d -

^^ Now, that *does* sound sanctimonious.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dan prefers DannyWorld.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > everything is possible there and he and his funny ears is GOD.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bob don't prefer Bobbyworld?

> > > > >

> > > > > that's nowheresville.

> > > > >

> > > > > .b b.b. is without preferences.

> > > > >

> > > > > baba is here gracing your presence with the True Word.

> > > > >

> > > > > this dynamic presentation while being manifested through .b bobji..

> > > > >

> > > > > who in and of his own humble self is nothing..

> > > > >

> > > > > is of Great Significance and is Unutterable in Itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Blessings flow like refreshing tropic breezes...

> > > > >

> > > > > towards he who attends to .b b.b.'s transmission.

> > > > >

> > > > > for it comes not from BobbyWorld but directly from God.

> > > > >

> > > > > BobbyWorld is God's amusement park.

> > > > >

> > > > > lit up like a carnival circus at night.

> > > > >

> > > > > i live but for His pleasure.

> > > > >

> > > > > .b b.b.

> > > >

> > > > and you sure hate being a guru, too.

> > > >

> > > > - d -

> > >

> > > i hate nothing.

> > >

> > > i love nothing.

> > >

> > > you love yourself.

> > >

> > > the chasm between these states is vast and deep.

> > >

> > > i don't know how to inform you.

> > >

> > > it won't help in any event.

> > >

> > > .b b.b.

> >

> > i am so pitiful and you are so wise.

> >

> > so beyond the opposites and all.

> >

> > no self-aggrandisement that I've ever heard.

> >

> > not from you.

> >

> > you are that special.

> >

> > - d -

>

> you find this difficult i know.

>

> there is no you nor me.

>

> these judgments that you judge others to have..

>

> are mere sickness..disease.

>

> relax..take it easy.

>

> don't be so afraid of losing something you don't possess.

>

> this is told to you with kindness.

>

> .b b.b.

plus, it's very original.

i've never heard that one before.

i'll have to ponder it deeply.

while i'm attending to those important things i mentioned.

- d -

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

<Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Who is the controller, and what is the controlled?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Is one separately existing, apart from the other?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > - D -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is no separation -obviously. In human interactions,

inteligence,

> > > > > > > > > > rationality, clarity, perception of the whole field rules in

one case, and

> > > > > > > > > > prejudice, fear, anger in the other. The results are very

different. Sense

> > > > > > > > > > of separation engenders fear and violence and the one in

clarity knows that.

> > > > > > > > > > Is this not obvious/clear?

> > > > > > > > > > What are wars, concentration camps,etc...? Could such events

happen if the

> > > > > > > > > > people involved acted guided by clarity?

> > > > > > > > > > -geo-

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > if " Clarity " is all that is claimed of it..

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > how could it not be the Primal Cause and Guiding Force..

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > of any and all things..states..behaviors..conditions?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > you be the judge.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Clarity never judges.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > that's funny.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > that's what I said.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > gee, I guess you're not such a bad guru after all.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - d -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > call me anything..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > call my mother anything...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but don't call me a " guru " mofo!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that's your sad ass wannabe trip.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > only you, my guru, could call me out so confidently, so wisely.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you have put me in my place.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i am screwed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i am up shit creek with no paddle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i am on a sad-ass trip.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i am a wannabe.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks for your pearls of wisdom.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > wonderful!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - d -

> > > > >

> > > > > you still don't get it.

> > > > >

> > > > > it's not all about you yo-yo.

> > > > >

> > > > > .b b.b.

> > > >

> > > > yes, I'll never get it the way you got it.

> > > >

> > > > i'm a lost cause.

> > > >

> > > > maybe if I just keep repeating, this is bullshit, it's not about me

yoyo.

> > > >

> > > > maybe in a hundred years i'll be one little step closer to being where

you're not.

> > > >

> > > > - d -

> > >

> > > there is absolutely nothing to gain.

> > >

> > > .b b.b.

> >

> > no shit.

> >

> > ya think?

> >

> > - d -

>

> took you awhile.

>

> why the dumb posting before?

>

> .b b.b.

before what?

- d -

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> -

> dan330033

> Nisargadatta

> Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:34 PM

> Re: it's not there or over there either.

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Otherwise, it would perhaps have linear logic to it, and someone

> > > > > would see it, and immediately die, because their body-mind isn't

> > > > > there.

> > > > >

> > > > > But it's not linear logic, and not someone's possession.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, the body-mind not being here doesn't mean that the body-mind-

> > > > > world dies physically. It is more that the body-mind-self dies in

> > > > > terms of having any grasp, or existence here.

> > > >

> > > > In a way, it does mean that. Don't we all die?

> > >

> > > Yes.

> > >

> > > What I mean is that knowing/being truth, doesn't require that the

> > > body-mind physically die, to be known, to be as it is.

> >

> > True... nor does it require the body-mind be physically alive.

> >

> > Alive/dead is another duality, from here...

>

> Certainly.

>

> Existing as someone alive, going through time, is an interpretation.

>

> A body-mind existing as a living organism that will die, is an

> interpretation.

>

> Such interpretations require duality.

>

> There is only now, undivided.

>

> The now of any body-mind being born.

>

> The now of any body-mind dying.

>

> The now of perception of a body-mind.

>

> The now of no-perception of a body-mind.

>

> - D -

>

> The now of no-perception of a body-mind.?

> -geo-

Yes.

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> >

> > took you awhile.

> >

> > why the dumb posting before?

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> before what?

>

> - d -

Doh.

These fellers have some strange ideas, like there's something to be before, or

something to be after.

Maybe that's why the hostility and endless focus on " you " or " other " .

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> no, the most tragic truth in my life is the financial morass that

> is the state of California.

>

> and the greedy, nasty bastards that made it this way.

Turn off the TV, and it all goes away ;-).

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > ah ha!

> > > >

> > > > the little green eyed monster sticks his puny little dickhead out.

> > > >

> > > > :-)

> > > >

> > > > .b b.b.

> > >

> > > i've had enough for now.

> > >

> > > as wonderful as you are, i have important matters to attend to.

> > >

> > > i've enjoyed our little chat, as always.

> > >

> > > - d -

> >

> > ^^ Now, that *does* sound sanctimonious.

>

> thank you!

>

> - d -

LOL... you're welcome, sweetie ;-).

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > no, the most tragic truth in my life is the financial morass that

> > > is the state of California.

> > >

> > > and the greedy, nasty bastards that made it this way.

> >

> > Turn off the TV, and it all goes away ;-).

>

> you mean that TV of my life experience?

Your life experience isn't a fixed thing.

Turn off the TV. Quit your job. Listen to different people instead of the ones

who gab about 'greedy, nasty bastards'. Or don't. Your call.

I rarely watch the news, as it's so heavily processed through " the human mind "

as to bear little resemblance to actual events.

> okay.

>

> nice metaphor -

>

> gotta run though

>

> - d -

So run... who's stopping ya?

June 17, 2009

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:48 PM

Re: it's not there or over there either.

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> -

> dan330033

> Nisargadatta

> Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:04 PM

> Re: it's not there or over there either.

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> > -

> > dan330033

> > Nisargadatta

> > Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:09 PM

> > Re: it's not there or over there either.

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > If personality is an imagined pattern based on assumed differences,

> > > > and

> > > > one

> > > > is aware without imagining, then that imagined pattern isn't found

> > > > anywhere.

> > > >

> > > > geo> Wrong. If one is aware without imagining then personality is a

> > > > set

> > > > of

> > > > conditionings. Some people are conditioned to inject heroin. Otheres

> > > > to

> > > > coffee.

> > > > ===

> > >

> > > You say I am wrong. That is your judgment. All I can say is that here

> > > is

> > > awareness that does not depend on attaching to a personality, and no

> > > personality is real here. The " Dan " personality is not real here,

> > > anymore

> > > than " Geo, " " Tim, " or any other. There isn't a patterning going on

> > > here

> > > that

> > > was determined in the past. Nothing is being continued from a past and

> > > brought forward in time.

> > >

> > > That is all I can say.

> > >

> > > You can certainly reject what I am saying, as you have.

> > >

> > > geo> No I am not rejecting what you are saying. Except that you say

> > > that

> > > to

> > > recognise a keyboard, letters, words, sentences, color of the table,

> > > etc..

> > > you must have an " I " (in another post). So how should your statement

> > > " nothing is being continued from a past and brought forward in time. "

> > > understood. A mistake?

> >

> > Not a mistake.

> >

> > In words, in concepts, it makes it sound like two different " realities. "

> >

> > The reality of time, of thought, of the past being projected, of the

> > observer and the observed, of experience.

> >

> > And the reality, or truth, if you will, of no-thing: timeless, no

> > division,

> > no separation, no experience - just " being " just " is " just " unnameable

> > nothing " just " all possible possibility. "

> >

> > These two realities are not divided.

> >

> > But in words, concept, they will necessarily seem to be discussed as if

> > different.

> >

> > The " I " or " I am " or " observer " is the bringing forward of location

> > through

> > time and experience.

> >

> > So, saying that nothing continues here makes it sound like two

> > realities.

> >

> > But they aren't.

> >

> > Otherwise, it would perhaps have linear logic to it, and someone would

> > see

> > it, and immediately die, because their body-mind isn't there.

> >

> > But it's not linear logic, and not someone's possession.

> >

> > So, the body-mind not being here doesn't mean that the body-mind-world

> > dies

> > physically. It is more that the body-mind-self dies in terms of having

> > any

> > grasp, or existence here.

> >

> > This is where a " leap " is involved that can't be spoken, languaged,

> > thought

> > about, conceived.

> >

> > A timeless leap that doesn't depend on logic, and no words do justice

> > to.

> >

> > Not a leap made by someone.

> >

> > Not a leap that I made and someone else didn't make.

> >

> > Not a leap involving moving from somewhere to somewhere else.

> >

> > - D -

> >

> > You said " If personality is an imagined pattern based on assumed

> > differences, and one is aware without imagining, then that imagined

> > pattern

> > isn't found anywhere.

> >

> > geo said> Wrong. You thought it was my judgment and gave that

> > explanation

> > above. So I say: your statement is still wrong. Personality is a set of

> > behaviours based on the assumption of some inner fixed entity. If one is

> > aware without imagining looking at another individual who is acting

> > based

> > on

> > that imagined assumption it is his acts that will show his personality.

> > You

> > say it is not found anywhere.

> > -geo-

>

> Don't you see that you have to interpret the behavior?

>

> And who is interpreting the behavior?

>

> And how are the labels and the judgments supplied to define the behavior

> observed?

>

> Do you see my point?

>

> - D -

>

> I see your point and do not agree totaly. No need to " interpret " behaviour

> of another. It is there in front of the seeing eyes. You " see " the set of

> conditionings as if one concrete thing (well..almost). It is analogous to

> seeing a driver of the bus you are riding at night falling asleep. It

> fucking happened with me. I hit the top of his head with my palms as

> strong

> as I could. The guy by my side started shouting..wake up SOB....SOB.....

> LOL. I t is there as a sleeping man.

> -geo-

you don't see the extent of the interpreting.

there is no " objective behavior " you're observing, separate from the

subjective interpretation of it.

check it out.

you are not a blank slate with no past, looking at someone else who is

conditioned.

it takes one to know one.

do you see how that works?

understanding this, there is no investment in either one (of the apparent

organisms thinking they are observing the behavior of someone else).

- d -

Well, yes. The amount of interpreting is subjective. I desagree about

" there is no objective behavior " . There is as clear as light when all is

one, and I am nothing and everything. But I am not able to " do it " often. I

tend to fall asleep with people around. I feel bored, or anxious, or

insatisfied, or angry.....many times. Try to look at people from silence.

You will see what I mean. Its like looking at walking robots.

-geo-

June 17, 2009

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:52 PM

Re: it's not there or over there either.

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> -

> dan330033

> Nisargadatta

> Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:06 PM

> Re: it's not there or over there either.

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Otherwise, it would perhaps have linear logic to it, and someone would

> > > see it, and immediately die, because their body-mind isn't there.

> > >

> > > But it's not linear logic, and not someone's possession.

> > >

> > > So, the body-mind not being here doesn't mean that the body-mind-

> > > world dies physically. It is more that the body-mind-self dies in

> > > terms of having any grasp, or existence here.

> >

> > In a way, it does mean that. Don't we all die?

>

> Yes.

>

> What I mean is that knowing/being truth, doesn't require that the

> body-mind

> physically die, to be known, to be as it is.

>

> If that were true, something would exist outside of it, that could inhibit

> it, and which would need to be gotten rid of, for it to be what it is.

>

> - D -

>

> And the same may be said about the human world with its objects and things

> and rivers and trees. It doesnt need to disapear either.

> -geo-

there's a difference between " insubstantiality " and " getting rid of

something. "

getting rid of something gives it substantiality, and must be repeated ad

infinitum, every time it appears.

insubstantiality is simply the way it is with objects.

what appears, disappears.

- d -

Yes......empty.

-geo-

June 17, 2009

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:54 PM

Re: it's not there or over there either.

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > in simpler more earthy terms..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > >

> > > > > yes, great.

> > > > >

> > > > > dan is full of shit.

> > > > >

> > > > > thanks for letting us all know.

> > > > >

> > > > > - d -

> > > >

> > > > What's interesting (from here) is why he's letting us all know over

> > > > and over and over and over again.

> > > >

> > > > Self-flagellation?

> > >

> > > I don't know.

> > >

> > > I'm willing to concede I'm full of shit, if we don't have to keep

> > > revisiting the issue.

> > >

> > > - D -

> >

> > You don't need to concede anything. He does.

> >

> > But keep calling yourself " I " , and conceding. Maybe that'll help.

>

> " he " ???

>

> now boys!

>

> we must come together as One ...HERE NOW..

>

> stop fucking gossiping.

>

> you're making me blush.

>

> although i am a VIP..you know about that stuff dan.

>

> .b b.b.

would you like to hear again that you're way cool?

okay, dude, you're way cool.

plus, you have no ego.

that is beyond VIP status, as far as I'm concerned.

- d -

He doesnt have ONE ego, but some. One before, another after, and another

while lit. LOL

-geo-

June 17, 2009

-

Tim G.

Nisargadatta

Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:59 PM

Re: it's not there or over there either.

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> And the same may be said about the human world with its objects and

> things

> and rivers and trees. It doesnt need to disapear either.

> -geo-

Nothing needs to happen.

Nothing needs to refrain from happening.

geo> Nothing. Ufa...what a relief!

June 17, 2009

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> -

> Tim G.

> Nisargadatta

> Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:59 PM

> Re: it's not there or over there either.

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> > And the same may be said about the human world with its objects and

> > things

> > and rivers and trees. It doesnt need to disapear either.

> > -geo-

>

> Nothing needs to happen.

>

> Nothing needs to refrain from happening.

>

> geo> Nothing. Ufa...what a relief!

Neither something nor nothing.

Words don't do the trick.

Words are the trick.

June 17, 2009

omkaradatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > > You don't need to concede anything. He does.

> > >

> > > But keep calling yourself " I " , and conceding. Maybe that'll help.

> >

> > Maybe, but doubtful.

> >

> > Consider that I'm conceding, because I understand he's addicted to > an

aggressive stance, and won't concede.

>

> Of course... that's obvious.

>

> " The guard " ('me') is rarely let down.

>

> Probably due to the fantasy that something is being protected.

>

> Something 'there' 'behind the walls'.

>

> > I don't think it's just the nuns, either.

> >

> > Some real darkness this dude has gone through.

>

> Sure, that's likely.

>

> > So, allow me to be the one who concedes.

>

> Can I stop ya?

>

> Not that I want to...

BTW, is it worth noting that I went through some 'real darkness' myself?

Or, so it was imagined.

" Gone, never having been " ;-).

I was the darkness I went through.

Without me, it seems only light everywhere.

Which is dark, too.

Sign In

it's not there or over there either.

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