The Breakdown of The Bicameral Mind

[Guest guest]

The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it.

 

It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the

known.

 

As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar

and most in

this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact.

 

A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their

personal

totality is shattered.

 

In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way.

 

There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the

naming of

them.....including the namer itself.

 

Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear

without a

name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own.

 

They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

 

Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified

in the clarity of

their purpose.

 

Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown.

 

One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is

known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or

lack of it.

>

> It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the

edge of the known.

>

> As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to

the familiar and most in

> this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in

tact.

>

> A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what

had been their personal

> totality is shattered.

>

> In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in

any way.

>

> There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist

only in the naming of

> them.....including the namer itself.

>

> Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is

felt.........they appear without a

> name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as

their own.

>

> They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

>

> Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are

intensified in the clarity of

> their purpose.

>

> Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and

unknown.

>

> One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness.....

and it is

> known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

>

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

 

And yes, here it is all for free again, another script

for 'enlightenment in an instant'!

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or

> lack of it.

> >

> > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the

> edge of the known.

> >

> > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to

> the familiar and most in

> > this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in

> tact.

> >

> > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what

> had been their personal

> > totality is shattered.

> >

> > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in

> any way.

> >

> > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist

> only in the naming of

> > them.....including the namer itself.

> >

> > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is

> felt.........they appear without a

> > name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as

> their own.

> >

> > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

> >

> > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are

> intensified in the clarity of

> > their purpose.

> >

> > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and

> unknown.

> >

> > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness.....

> and it is

> > known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

>

> And yes, here it is all for free again, another script

> for 'enlightenment in an instant'!

>

 

 

Johan,

 

 

My posts seem to disturb you.

 

 

Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

 

 

 

 

t.

[Guest guest]

Hi toombaru,

 

What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of which is the "Buddha's Smile". :-))

 

Michael

San Diego, CA

 

****************************************

 

The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it.

 

It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known.

 

As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact.

 

A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered.

 

In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way.

 

There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the namer itself.

 

Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own.

 

They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

 

Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose.

 

Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown.

 

One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

 

toombaru

 

 

Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy!

#1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America!

http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm

http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release 5/19/2008 7:44

AM

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or

> > lack of it.

> > >

> > > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the

> > edge of the known.

> > >

> > > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to

> > the familiar and most in

> > > this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in

> > tact.

> > >

> > > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what

> > had been their personal

> > > totality is shattered.

> > >

> > > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in

> > any way.

> > >

> > > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist

> > only in the naming of

> > > them.....including the namer itself.

> > >

> > > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is

> > felt.........they appear without a

> > > name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as

> > their own.

> > >

> > > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

> > >

> > > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are

> > intensified in the clarity of

> > > their purpose.

> > >

> > > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and

> > unknown.

> > >

> > > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness.....

> > and it is

> > > known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > And yes, here it is all for free again, another script

> > for 'enlightenment in an instant'!

> >

>

>

> Johan,

>

>

> My posts seem to disturb you.

>

>

> Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

>

>

>

>

> t.

 

P: On the contrary, he should hang on your every

word. That they disturb his ideas is GOOD!

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote:

>

>

> Hi toombaru,

>

> What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and

truthful!

Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things,

one of

which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-))

>

> Michael

> San Diego, CA

 

P: Yeah! He's not the old broken record guy, no more.

He's rapping. He has moves! He's dancing loose.

We can call him Papa T Toom. )

>

> ****************************************

>

> The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it.

>

> It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the

known.

>

> As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar

and most

in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact.

>

> A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been

their

personal totality is shattered.

>

> In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way.

>

> There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the

naming of

them.....including the namer itself.

>

> Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear

without a

name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own.

>

> They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events.

>

> Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified

in the clarity of

their purpose.

>

> Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown.

>

> One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is

known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is.

>

> toombaru

>

> Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy!

> #1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America!

> http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm

> http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631

>

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release 5/19/2008

7:44

AM

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote:

>

>

> Hi toombaru,

>

> What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and

truthful!

Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things,

one of

which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-))

>

> Michael

> San Diego, CA

>

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Michael

 

 

Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said.

 

Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Beautiful, !! mirage inside a mirage!!

 

 

Regards and Wishes

 

Deepak Soni

Cell: +91 9818136667

IM:deepaksoni1965

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On Behalf

Of Adamson

Monday, May 19, 2008 11:08 PM

Nisargadatta

Re:The Breakdown of The Bicameral Mind

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi toombaru,

 

 

 

 

 

What you penned (typed) below

was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet,

sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many

things, one of which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-))

 

 

 

 

 

Michael

 

 

San Diego, CA

 

 

 

 

 

****************************************

 

 

 

 

 

The mind does not suddenly decide

to discover its own reality or lack of it.

 

 

 

 

 

It is herded....like some dumb

animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known.

 

 

 

 

 

As it approaches the unknown it

will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage

to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact.

 

 

 

 

 

A few tumble off into the unnamed

and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered.

 

 

 

 

 

In this process, there is no

guarantee that life will be better in any way.

 

 

 

 

 

There comes...or not.... a deep

understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the

namer itself.

 

 

 

 

 

Life continues as before but when

joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are

experienced without someone claiming them as their own.

 

 

 

 

 

They just arise and subside in the

flowing confluence of events.

 

 

 

 

 

Their intensity is not diminished......but

if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and

unknown.

 

 

 

 

 

One finds itself walking through an

ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That

is who one is.

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

>

> Johan,

>

>

> My posts seem to disturb you.

>

>

> Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

>

>

>

>

> t.

>

 

Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill,

a bit stupid?

 

Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a

proselytizer of myself.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote:

>

>

> >

> > Johan,

> >

> >

> > My posts seem to disturb you.

> >

> >

> > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > t.

> >

>

> Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill,

> a bit stupid?

>

> Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a

> proselytizer of myself.

 

 

hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is.....

 

how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?...

 

except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love, love......and

peace and love.....and even more love....more more love.....highest

love....love love....peace........

 

etc...

 

Marc

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Johan,

> > >

> > >

> > > My posts seem to disturb you.

> > >

> > >

> > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > t.

> > >

> >

> > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better

sill,

> > a bit stupid?

> >

> > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a

> > proselytizer of myself.

>

>

> hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is.....

>

> how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?...

>

> except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love,

love......and

> peace and love.....and even more love....more more love.....highest

> love....love love....peace........*

>

> etc...

>

> Marc

 

 

Ps: *except on mondays.....

 

on mondays, the world is still little strange.....i mean, more

strange than on other days....for some fools in here.....

 

lol

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi toombaru,

> >

> > What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct,

clear, and truthful!

> Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of

so many things, one of

> which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-))

> >

> > Michael

> > San Diego, CA

> Hello Michael

>

>

> Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was

said.

 

 

Sorry ToomToll, who is resonating after tasting emptiness, don't we

learn in the teachings of non-duality that there is no emptiness,

silly Puppie, its just another lolly and carrot for the ego to feed

on, which you dramatically cherrish.

 

 

>

> Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?

 

 

San Diego must be full of emptiness...of course.

 

>

>

> toombaru

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Johan,

> > >

> > >

> > > My posts seem to disturb you.

> > >

> > >

> > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > t.

> > >

> >

> > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better

sill,

> > a bit stupid?

> >

> > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a

> > proselytizer of myself.

>

>

> hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is.....

>

> how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?...

>

> except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love,

love......and

> peace and love.....and even more love....more more

love.....highest

> love....love love....peace........

>

> etc...

>

> Marc

> >

>

 

 

You're not wrong, he's very cool, its time he huggs a tree or big

animal before it's too late.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Johan,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My posts seem to disturb you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > t.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better

> sill,

> > > a bit stupid?

> > >

> > > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a

> > > proselytizer of myself.

> >

> >

> > hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is.....

> >

> > how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?...

> >

> > except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love,

> love......and

> > peace and love.....and even more love....more more

> love.....highest

> > love....love love....peace........

> >

> > etc...

> >

> > Marc

> > >

> >

>

>

> You're not wrong, he's very cool, its time he huggs a tree or big

> animal before it's too late.

 

 

lol

 

yes.....he could have some nice travels.....discovering the/his/our

world........

 

some fresh air in the Himalayas.....or in the South Pacific.....

 

etc...

 

there is nothing real about the world.....but nothing wrong too......

 

lot of things to discover...

 

it's never too late...

 

 

Marc

>

[Guest guest]

Hi toombaru,

 

Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to be. :-))

 

Me often thinks that "man" (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason being able to recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started to relate to and interact with it as "Paradise Lost". Consequently, and sure enough, things started living up to our way of perceiving and treating "what is". Our "meddling" (with the intent to "make things better" (i.e., force "what is the way it is" to conform to a conceptual ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-))

 

J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'".

 

Michael

********************************************************

< Hello Michael< Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said.< Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?< toombaru

 

 

Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy!

#1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America!

http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm

http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1455 - Release 5/19/2008 5:04

PM

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote:

>

> Hi toombaru,

>

> Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one

perceives it to

be. :-))

>

> Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked

out of the

Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason

being able to

recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started

to

relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently, and sure

enough, things

started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " . Our

" meddling " (with the

intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is " to conform

to a conceptual

ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a

humongous

direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that

yelling at an

echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-))

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the celluloid

cartoon land

that some have called " the dream " .

 

 

And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi toombaru,

> >

> > Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as

beautiful as one perceives it to

> be. :-))

> >

> > Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never

actually kicked out of the

> Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-

ever) reason being able to

> recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-

edenesque we started to

> relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently,

and sure enough, things

> started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " .

Our " meddling " (with the

> intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is "

to conform to a conceptual

> ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems

to me, is a humongous

> direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned

is that yelling at an

> echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I

yell. :-))

>

>

>

> Yes.

>

>

> Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the

celluloid cartoon land

> that some have called " the dream " .

>

>

> And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

>

>

 

 

Hm, Toomb,

 

Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ?

 

Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh

air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?

 

When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you

need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in

the devil's ass ...

 

Werner

 

 

>

>

> toombaru

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi toombaru,

> > >

> > > Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as

> beautiful as one perceives it to

> > be. :-))

> > >

> > > Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never

> actually kicked out of the

> > Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-

> ever) reason being able to

> > recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-

> edenesque we started to

> > relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently,

> and sure enough, things

> > started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " .

> Our " meddling " (with the

> > intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is "

> to conform to a conceptual

> > ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems

> to me, is a humongous

> > direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned

> is that yelling at an

> > echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I

> yell. :-))

> >

> >

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> >

> > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the

> celluloid cartoon land

> > that some have called " the dream " .

> >

> >

> > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

> >

> >

>

>

> Hm, Toomb,

>

> Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ?

>

> Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh

> air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?

>

> When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you

> need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in

> the devil's ass ...

>

> Werner

>

>

> >

> >

 

LOL

 

 

I am not diminishing the dream.

 

In a strange way....for the conceptual mind and its conceptual child.......It is

all there is.

 

It is a vastness of infinite potential...but it is limited to the perceptual

capacities of its

imaginary center

 

When identification solidifies into a personal perspective it becomes an

imaginary closed

loop centered on personal survival.

 

And all the while..........the Naturalness flows.....unimpeded and totally

available.

 

 

 

 

 

t,

[Guest guest]

J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'".

Michael

 

 

***And the bad is the foundation on which both must rest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:02:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, adamson writes:

 

Hi toombaru,

 

Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to be. :-))

 

Me often thinks that "man" (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason being able to recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started to relate to and interact with it as "Paradise Lost". Consequently, and sure enough, things started living up to our way of perceiving and treating "what is". Our "meddling" (with the intent to "make things better" (i.e., force "what is the way it is" to conform to a conceptual ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-))

 

J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'".

 

Michael

********************************************************

< Hello Michael< Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said.< Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?< toombaru Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy!#1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America!http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htmhttp://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269

 

Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wwoehr writes:

> > Yes.> > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the celluloid cartoon land > that some have called "the dream".> > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.> >Hm, Toomb,Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human "nature" ?Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in the devil's ass ...Werner

 

****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach a point at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately physically and mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that nature is entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself from that role in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us from the natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that integrated functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced where there is none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to challenge its role and project it's fate.

 

However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is toward the transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone wrong. It's much more like 'growing pains'.

Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:59:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wwoehr writes:

> ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach a point > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately physically and > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that nature is > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself from that role > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us from the > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that integrated > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced where there is > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to challenge > its role and project it's fate. > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is toward the > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone wrong. It's much > more like 'growing pains'.> > Nicely written, Phil,But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution does transcend animal consciousness.First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. Not to speak of "animal consciousness". Do you think there is a master plan in creation and evolution ?Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content no consciousness.It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car of in front of a computer ?Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor any "evolution of consciousness".Are you a New-Ageian ?Werner

 

****I didn't know evolution was a new age concept. I thought scientists came up with that one. I actually used the context of evolution because of all the rational scientific minds here.

The fact that consciousness is not a thing and that it is it's content, is irrelevant to whether or not it can be transcended. In fact, transcending objects is a rather tricky deal. Whether or not there is a master plan is also irrelevant as to whether evolution or transcendence happens. (No, there is no plan or planner)

 

I never suggested that consciousness distinguishes man from the animals..........Okay, nevermind. Clearly your intention is only to dismiss and not to discuss.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> wwoehr writes:

>

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> >

> > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is

the

> celluloid cartoon land

>

> > that some have called " the dream " .

> >

> >

> > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

> >

> >

>

>

> Hm, Toomb,

>

> Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ?

>

> Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing

fresh

> air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?

>

> When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc,

you

> need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them

in

> the devil's ass ...

>

> Werner

>

>

>

> ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach

a point

> at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately

physically and

> mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that

nature is

> entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself

from that role

> in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us

from the

> natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that

integrated

> functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced

where there is

> none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to

challenge

> its role and project it's fate.

>

> However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is

toward the

> transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone

wrong. It's much

> more like 'growing pains'.

>

>

 

 

Nicely written, Phil,

 

But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution

does transcend animal consciousness.

 

First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended.

Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a

master plan in creation and evolution ?

 

Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content

no consciousness.

 

It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its

contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine.

Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.

 

Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to

worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car

of in front of a computer ?

 

Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to

categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.

 

Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?

 

There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor

any " evolution of consciousness " .

 

Are you a New-Ageian ?

 

Werner

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > wwoehr@ writes:

> >

> > >

> > > Yes.

> > >

> > >

> > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is

> the

> > celluloid cartoon land

> >

> > > that some have called " the dream " .

> > >

> > >

> > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Hm, Toomb,

> >

> > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ?

> >

> > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing

> fresh

> > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?

> >

> > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc,

> you

> > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them

> in

> > the devil's ass ...

> >

> > Werner

> >

> >

> >

> > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach

> a point

> > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately

> physically and

> > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that

> nature is

> > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself

> from that role

> > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us

> from the

> > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that

> integrated

> > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced

> where there is

> > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to

> challenge

> > its role and project it's fate.

> >

> > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is

> toward the

> > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone

> wrong. It's much

> > more like 'growing pains'.

> >

> >

>

>

> Nicely written, Phil,

>

> But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution

> does transcend animal consciousness.

>

> First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended.

> Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a

> master plan in creation and evolution ?

>

> Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content

> no consciousness.

>

> It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its

> contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine.

> Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.

>

> Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to

> worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car

> of in front of a computer ?

>

> Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to

> categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.

>

> Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?

>

> There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor

> any " evolution of consciousness " .

>

> Are you a New-Ageian ?

>

> Werner

>

 

 

Evolution only says that physical organisms change over time through natural

selection

and random genetic mutations and that they gradually evolve to adapt to the ever

changing environment.

 

The only people who deny the vast amount of supportive evidence for evolution

are the

religious fundamentalists.

 

Any logical argument against evolution simply cannot be supported.

 

 

 

t.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight

Time,

> > > wwoehr@ writes:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result

is

> > the

> > > celluloid cartoon land

> > >

> > > > that some have called " the dream " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hm, Toomb,

> > >

> > > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ?

> > >

> > > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing

> > fresh

> > > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?

> > >

> > > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car

etc,

> > you

> > > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff

them

> > in

> > > the devil's ass ...

> > >

> > > Werner

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably

reach

> > a point

> > > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately

> > physically and

> > > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true

that

> > nature is

> > > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself

> > from that role

> > > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes

us

> > from the

> > > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that

> > integrated

> > > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced

> > where there is

> > > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability

to

> > challenge

> > > its role and project it's fate.

> > >

> > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is

> > toward the

> > > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone

> > wrong. It's much

> > > more like 'growing pains'.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Nicely written, Phil,

> >

> > But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that

evolution

> > does transcend animal consciousness.

> >

> > First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be

transcended.

> > Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a

> > master plan in creation and evolution ?

> >

> > Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no

content

> > no consciousness.

> >

> > It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is

its

> > contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine.

> > Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.

> >

> > Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria,

then to

> > worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a

car

> > of in front of a computer ?

> >

> > Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to

> > categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.

> >

> > Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?

> >

> > There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor

> > any " evolution of consciousness " .

> >

> > Are you a New-Ageian ?

> >

> > Werner

> >

>

>

> Evolution only says that physical organisms change over time

through natural selection

> and random genetic mutations and that they gradually evolve to

adapt to the ever

> changing environment.

>

> The only people who deny the vast amount of supportive evidence for

evolution are the

> religious fundamentalists.

>

> Any logical argument against evolution simply cannot be supported.

>

>

>

> t.

>

 

After years of intensive study, he had become the self-proclaimed

world's authority on the behavior and texture of shadows.

.......and......although he had advertised extensively, offering his

services for free......no one had, as yet, availed themselves of his

generosity!

[Guest guest]

Only man can create concepts into which he categorizes his experience;

at once shaping and is shaped by them...

 

Discreet sound-bytes of information are garnered through a *selective

listening* process and assimilated into a texture of being.

 

The interesting thing is that in order to be consciously aware of

*stone* consciousness must have been *stone*... or at least been

engraved in it...

 

~Anna

 

 

p.s. Enjoyed your stream of thought Phil..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:59:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> wwoehr writes:

>

> > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach

> a point

> > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately

> physically and

> > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that

> nature is

> > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself

> from that role

> > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us

> from the

> > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that

> integrated

> > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced

> where there is

> > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to

> challenge

> > its role and project it's fate.

> >

> > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is

> toward the

> > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone

> wrong. It's much

> > more like 'growing pains'.

> >

> >

>

>

> Nicely written, Phil,

>

> But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution

> does transcend animal consciousness.

>

> First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended.

> Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a

> master plan in creation and evolution ?

>

> Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content

> no consciousness.

>

> It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its

> contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine.

> Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.

>

> Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to

> worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car

> of in front of a computer ?

>

> Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to

> categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.

>

> Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?

>

> There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor

> any " evolution of consciousness " .

>

> Are you a New-Ageian ?

>

> Werner

>

>

>

> ****I didn't know evolution was a new age concept. I thought

scientists came

> up with that one. I actually used the context of evolution because

of all

> the rational scientific minds here.

> The fact that consciousness is not a thing and that it is it's

content, is

> irrelevant to whether or not it can be transcended. In fact,

transcending

> objects is a rather tricky deal. Whether or not there is a master

plan is also

> irrelevant as to whether evolution or transcendence happens. (No,

there is no

> plan or planner)

>

> I never suggested that consciousness distinguishes man from the

> animals..........Okay, nevermind. Clearly your intention is only to

dismiss and not to

> discuss.

>

>

>

> **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on

family

> favorites at AOL Food.

> (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

>