Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I always > thought " now " was a time word. > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and true > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. And if > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not use it > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut through? > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they loose > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this can be > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have created > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such refuges and > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled that > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > :-) > Stefan ......sure that you mean " intelligence " ?..... it's not arrogance?....or just one of many faces of ignorance...?... Marc > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > wrote: > >Yes,the I and it's panoply and paraphernalia are all based on > >memory.And all memeory is powered or energized or projected by NOW. > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. I really can't say > >anything on Libet and his findings--except to say that they are like > >everything else that arises--nothing to bet the farm on.You are so > >right, the universe is a wonder. The business of time-lags, and > >parallel and serial processes and freewill or no freewill--all that > >is just imagination and mist. Foam.Don't try to eat it for > >breakfast.Of course this is being spoken by one who has no knack for > >science and that makes it easier to say.Z > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I always > > thought " now " was a time word. > > > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and true > > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. And > if > > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not use it > > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut through? > > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they loose > > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this can > be > > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have > created > > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such refuges > and > > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled that > > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > > > :-) > > Stefan > > > .....sure that you mean " intelligence " ?..... > it's not arrogance?....or just one of many faces of ignorance...?... > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > wrote: > > >Yes,the I and it's panoply and paraphernalia are all based on > > >memory.And all memeory is powered or energized or projected by > NOW. > > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. I really can't say > > >anything on Libet and his findings--except to say that they are > like > > >everything else that arises--nothing to bet the farm on.You are so > > >right, the universe is a wonder. The business of time-lags, and > > >parallel and serial processes and freewill or no freewill--all > that > > >is just imagination and mist. Foam.Don't try to eat it for > > >breakfast.Of course this is being spoken by one who has no knack > for > > >science and that makes it easier to say.Z Namaste, NOW is not a power word it is a load of bollocks, and refers to time. In fact it refers to an interface between the past and the future. Eternal Present is more appropos and even that is an illusion..Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I always > thought " now " was a time word. > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and true > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. And if > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not use it > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut through? > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they loose > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this can be > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have created > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such refuges and > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled that > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > :-) > Stefan > So, you say science presents us with hard facts? Yes, and quite a lot of them too and who has the time for all that or even some of it? It is a way to keep your mind busy.But don't listen to me because I have my own way of busying my mind. I must say though that I feel all those hard facts are mirages, imaginary--for all they may be very true.It is like this: You sit in a closed room in your house. It is dark and yet you " know where you are " not only in relation to the rest of the house but also in relation to the rest of the neighborhood and the city where you live.You have a kind of mental map of the street outside and the river beyond it and the highway beyond that etc.It is a kind of locator sense that the mind provides so you don't feel lost in space--which is what you realy are-- haha.This locator sense is true and it is false. It is imaginary. It is false because you actually take the imagined street and river for actually there.They are not there or anywhere. they are not being perceived. An idea is being perceived.Snuff. As for NOW being power word--NOW is the actual area where memory--which makes up most of our world--is generated.It is out of time because time is idea and NOW is just knowing, not anything known.IT is rewally another word for THAT. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 > Namaste, > > NOW is not a power word it is a load of bollocks, and refers to time. > In fact it refers to an interface between the past and the future. > Eternal Present is more appropos and even that is an illusion..> Now is the word I use for THAT.You can call it whaty you will. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I always > > thought " now " was a time word. > > > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and true > > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. > And if > > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not use > it > > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut > through? > > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they > loose > > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this > can be > > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have > created > > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such refuges > and > > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled that > > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > > > :-) > > Stefan > > > So, you say science presents us with hard facts? Yes, and quite a > lot of them too and who has the time for all that or even some of it? > It is a way to keep your mind busy.But don't listen to me because I > have my own way of busying my mind. I must say though that I feel > all those hard facts are mirages, imaginary--for all they may be > very true.It is like this: You sit in a closed room in your house. > It is dark and yet you " know where you are " not only in relation to > the rest of the house but also in relation to the rest of the > neighborhood and the city where you live.You have a kind of mental > map of the street outside and the river beyond it and the highway > beyond that etc.It is a kind of locator sense that the mind provides > so you don't feel lost in space--which is what you realy are-- > haha.This locator sense is true and it is false. It is imaginary. It > is false because you actually take the imagined street and river for > actually there.They are not there or anywhere. they are not being > perceived. An idea is being perceived.Snuff. As for NOW being power > word--NOW is the actual area where memory--which makes up most of > our world--is generated.It is out of time because time is idea and > NOW is just knowing, not anything known.IT is rewally another word > for THAT. Z .....nice to see That background of Tom..... your words describe very well the Peace....of Now..... go on Tom.....and face those people....who are Nothing but.....on their spiritual Ego trip.... but be aware that such people aren't used to face......realy Emptyness & Peace means, to face all they can't Get....and what they Aren't.....for some reason let them do their show......which they can't see....as an empty show.......without any meaning ..... Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > > > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > > > > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I always > > > thought " now " was a time word. > > > > > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and > true > > > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. > > And if > > > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not use > > it > > > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > > > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut > > through? > > > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they > > loose > > > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this > > can be > > > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > > > > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have > > created > > > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such refuges > > and > > > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled > that > > > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > > > > > :-) > > > Stefan > > > > > So, you say science presents us with hard facts? Yes, and quite a > > lot of them too and who has the time for all that or even some of > it? > > It is a way to keep your mind busy.But don't listen to me because I > > have my own way of busying my mind. I must say though that I feel > > all those hard facts are mirages, imaginary--for all they may be > > very true.It is like this: You sit in a closed room in your house. > > It is dark and yet you " know where you are " not only in relation to > > the rest of the house but also in relation to the rest of the > > neighborhood and the city where you live.You have a kind of mental > > map of the street outside and the river beyond it and the highway > > beyond that etc.It is a kind of locator sense that the mind > provides > > so you don't feel lost in space--which is what you realy are-- > > haha.This locator sense is true and it is false. It is imaginary. > It > > is false because you actually take the imagined street and river > for > > actually there.They are not there or anywhere. they are not being > > perceived. An idea is being perceived.Snuff. As for NOW being > power > > word--NOW is the actual area where memory--which makes up most of > > our world--is generated.It is out of time because time is idea and > > NOW is just knowing, not anything known.IT is rewally another word > > for THAT. Z > > > ....nice to see That background of Tom..... > > your words describe very well the Peace....of Now..... > > go on Tom.....and face those people....who are Nothing but.....on > their spiritual Ego trip.... > > but be aware that such people aren't used to face......realy > Emptyness & Peace > > means, to face all they can't Get....and what they Aren't.....for > some reason > > let them do their show......which they can't see....as an empty > show.......without any meaning > > .... > Who are " them " , Marc ? Werner > > > Marc > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote > > > > >NOW is a power word and not a time word. > > > > > > > > Wow, this was new to me, and I do not know what to say... I > always > > > > thought " now " was a time word. > > > > > > > > About science, well, science is just like everything else, and > > true > > > > science confronts us with the hard facts. They are a challenge. > > > And if > > > > we have intelligence and the power to use it... should we not > use > > > it > > > > the way Nisargadatta (and others) have shown us? By taking the > > > > challenge? By sharpening the sword until we are able to cut > > > through? > > > > Thinking things to their very ends? Again and again until they > > > loose > > > > their foamy and foggy smokiness? This is the tradition and this > > > can be > > > > a powerful means. Intelligence is the power word, for me. > > > > > > > > Of course, it is nice to sit in our cozy corners that we have > > > created > > > > with our belief systems. It is good that we can have such > refuges > > > and > > > > they are only human like you and me. But once you have smelled > > that > > > > fresh air... ahhhhhh... > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > So, you say science presents us with hard facts? Yes, and quite a > > > lot of them too and who has the time for all that or even some of > > it? > > > It is a way to keep your mind busy.But don't listen to me because > I > > > have my own way of busying my mind. I must say though that I feel > > > all those hard facts are mirages, imaginary--for all they may be > > > very true.It is like this: You sit in a closed room in your > house. > > > It is dark and yet you " know where you are " not only in relation > to > > > the rest of the house but also in relation to the rest of the > > > neighborhood and the city where you live.You have a kind of > mental > > > map of the street outside and the river beyond it and the highway > > > beyond that etc.It is a kind of locator sense that the mind > > provides > > > so you don't feel lost in space--which is what you realy are-- > > > haha.This locator sense is true and it is false. It is imaginary. > > It > > > is false because you actually take the imagined street and river > > for > > > actually there.They are not there or anywhere. they are not being > > > perceived. An idea is being perceived.Snuff. As for NOW being > > power > > > word--NOW is the actual area where memory--which makes up most of > > > our world--is generated.It is out of time because time is idea > and > > > NOW is just knowing, not anything known.IT is rewally another > word > > > for THAT. Z > > > > > > ....nice to see That background of Tom..... > > > > your words describe very well the Peace....of Now..... > > > > go on Tom.....and face those people....who are Nothing but.....on > > their spiritual Ego trip.... > > > > but be aware that such people aren't used to face......realy > > Emptyness & Peace > > > > means, to face all they can't Get....and what they Aren't.....for > > some reason > > > > let them do their show......which they can't see....as an empty > > show.......without any meaning > > > > .... > > > > > Who are " them " , Marc ? > > Werner whoever they are...... their ignorance don't give them any Peace..... don't worry Marc Ps: some of " them " are even proud to declare that " they realy don't know who they are " ....... the misery is....that it's even true.....lol > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > So, you say science presents us with hard facts? No Tom, I had written: " About science, well, science is just like everything else, and true science confronts us with the hard facts. " Please let me explain. I liked your image of that inner map. Now, if someone is telling you that your house is not located where you thought it was, would you step out of your door and see, if that fellow was maybe right? Or would you rather stay inside, because you feel comfortable the way you imagine things are? Whether that fellow is a scientist, or a spiritual master, or your wife, or just a nagging doubt... this is not the point, it does not matter. The point is, if you want to be challenged or not. And if you know already, that you are lost in space, if this is the hard fact... then: what do you have to lose? Greetings Stefan >Yes, and quite a > lot of them too and who has the time for all that or even some of it? >It is a way to keep your mind busy.But don't listen to me because I >have my own way of busying my mind. I must say though that I feel >all those hard facts are mirages, imaginary--for all they may be >very true.It is like this: You sit in a closed room in your house. >It is dark and yet you " know where you are " not only in relation to >the rest of the house but also in relation to the rest of the >neighborhood and the city where you live.You have a kind of mental >map of the street outside and the river beyond it and the highway >beyond that etc.It is a kind of locator sense that the mind provides >so you don't feel lost in space--which is what you realy are-- >haha.This locator sense is true and it is false. It is imaginary. It >is false because you actually take the imagined street and river for >actually there.They are not there or anywhere. they are not being >perceived. An idea is being perceived.Snuff. As for NOW being power >word--NOW is the actual area where memory--which makes up most of >our world--is generated.It is out of time because time is idea and >NOW is just knowing, not anything known.IT is rewally another word >for THAT. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: >Ps: some of " them " are even proud to declare that " they realy don't > know who they are " ....... > >the misery is....that it's even true.....lol Marc, to end that misery, could you please tell me who I really am? Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > >>Namaste, >> >>NOW is not a power word it is a load of bollocks, and refers to time. >>In fact it refers to an interface between the past and the future. >>Eternal Present is more appropos and even that is an illusion.. >Now is the word I use for THAT.You can call it what you will. Z Tom, what is " THAT " ? Do you attribute it to something specific? Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > >Ps: some of " them " are even proud to declare that " they realy don't > > know who they are " ....... > > > >the misery is....that it's even true.....lol > > Marc, to end that misery, > could you please tell me who I really am? > > Stefan lol..... Stefan.....it realy seem that you can't end " that misery " .... i know....you are trying hard......with endless conceptual talk in here..... but you seem to have no real sensuality about....to " whom & what " you are talking.....indeed means...you are closed....to yourSelf.....for some reason it don't make sense to talk about " who " you are....or are not.... " you " would just don't understand.....because your heart only know this little intellectual " Stefan " ......running after himSelf....like a baby is running after the mother if you want to know who & what you are...... this...you only can find through whole of yourself.... .....if you want....use some scientific techniques to cross this world of illusions (Stefan included)....and practise once a Master told....: a gramm of practise is more worth than tonnes of theories & books try it Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: >a gramm of practise is more worth than tonnes of theories & books > >try it Thank you for your advice. Could you instruct me with more detail about such practice? Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > >a gramm of practise is more worth than tonnes of theories & books > > > >try it > > Thank you for your advice. > Could you instruct me with more detail about such practice? > > Stefan no.... i'm not an instructor.... try out meditation techniques..... since thousand of years.....on the natural path of being.... people come sooner or later to meditation but if you aren't prapared to " give up " all this " your " imaginary knowledge.....you will get no access to meditation .... in your messages....you make reference to some Masters....like Niz. as for example.... such people need only few breath.....to enter in meditation.... means...to enter in reality.....whenever they like to.... .... yes...it's possible to read as many definition about meditation.....as there are people....... up to " you " .... .... there are also as many spiritual paths....as there are people.... .... but the result of all paths.....is Peace .... when there is Peace....there is an understanding also for ...the Now... and for many other things.... .... Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: >in your messages....you make reference to some Masters....like Niz. >as for example.... >such people need only few breath.....to enter in meditation.... >means...to enter in reality.....whenever they like to.... Are you saying, they are sometimes not in reality, and then they take a few breath and then they enter reality? And after some time they come back to non-reality? Marc, how is this for you? Are you sometimes in reality and sometimes not? Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > >in your messages....you make reference to some Masters....like Niz. > >as for example.... > >such people need only few breath.....to enter in meditation.... > >means...to enter in reality.....whenever they like to.... > > Are you saying, they are sometimes not in reality, > and then they take a few breath > and then they enter reality? > And after some time they come back to non-reality? > > Marc, how is this for you? > Are you sometimes in reality and sometimes not? > > Stefan you see......now, again.... you investigate on " Marc " .....instead on restless " Stefan " .... ..... i think that you can't " get " .....what people like Nis. Are.....and what they aren't.......and so, about any reality..... ..... yesterday you mentionned " Maya " .....and made a nice desciption on it..... ..... people like Nis. know very well about Maya......and so aren't trapped in/by Maya...... not like " Stefan " ..... ...... who is trapped....for the moment......in an appearing " Marc " .... ..... Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Marc, you say I am trapped in an appearing " Marc " . Yes, maybe I am. And how is it for you? When you talk about me are you also trapped in an appearing " Stefan " ? Stefan Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > you see......now, again.... > > you investigate on " Marc " .....instead on restless " Stefan " .... > > .... > > i think that you can't " get " .....what people like Nis. Are.....and > what they aren't.......and so, about any reality..... > > .... > > yesterday you mentionned " Maya " .....and made a nice desciption on > it..... > > .... > > people like Nis. know very well about Maya......and so aren't trapped > in/by Maya...... > not like " Stefan " ..... > > ..... > > who is trapped....for the moment......in an appearing " Marc " .... > > .... > > > > > Marc > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Marc, you say I am trapped in an appearing " Marc " . > Yes, maybe I am. > And how is it for you? > When you talk about me > are you also trapped in an appearing " Stefan " ? > > Stefan > > ......not realy.....when there is Peace Peace can't be trapped by anything.... there is nothing else....for real i'm as much " trapped " by " Stefan " ....as by the meal... " I " will take for lunch .....soon.... bon appetit Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 bon appetit Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > .....not realy.....when there is Peace > > Peace can't be trapped by anything.... > there is nothing else....for real > > i'm as much " trapped " by " Stefan " ....as by the meal... " I " will take > for lunch .....soon.... > > > > bon appetit > > Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 > Please let me explain. I liked your image of that inner map. Now, if > someone is telling you that your house is not located where you > thought it was, would you step out of your door and see, if that > fellow was maybe right? Or would you rather stay inside, because you > feel comfortable the way you imagine things are? > >Stefan: My point is:whether my mental map is correct or somehow I have forgotten that I am not at home but on vacation and so I am really in a motel in Miami and my metal map is saying Kansas City--it doesn't alter the fact that either in either situation I am dealing with an imaginary entity, a representation that I am unconsciously or unwittingly taking for real.I could go out and correct my map bylooking around but then I would go back into the room and go back into the dream of being somewhere that I know. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Yes, but what if the imaginary entity goes out of his room to see if his mental map is correct, and then clearly sees that his imaginations (including rooms, maps and doors) do not exist? Stefan Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: >>Stefan: My point is:whether my mental map is correct or somehow I have >forgotten that I am not at home but on vacation and so I am really in a >motel in Miami and my metal map is saying Kansas City--it doesn't alter >the fact that either in either situation I am dealing with an imaginary >entity, a representation that I am unconsciously or unwittingly taking >for real.I could go out and correct my map bylooking around but then I >would go back into the room and go back into the dream of being >somewhere that I know. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Yes, but what if the imaginary entity goes out of his room to see if > his mental map is correct, and then clearly sees that his imaginations > (including rooms, maps and doors) do not exist? > > Stefan > > Exactly. That is what happens in so called enlightenment--as far as I understand it al least.Enlightenment is when you ceast taking imaginary entities--and this includes cars, trees , houses, etc., which are all imaginary, concept based entities or what the buddhists call compound entities,---for real ones.What is real? This sound, this taste, this touch, this color, this smell. Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
