Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 > > > > > If you want to deify other humans........do that. > > As for me......there is no head higher them my own. > > > The only thing that can block the view of your own pristine naturalness............is other people's heads. (bumper sticker) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > > > > individual > > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > > That is due to the belief that a body-mind that is > > recognizable as > > > > a > > > > > unit and given a name is the seat of a knowing entity that has > > > > > experiences and knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > The belief that one can exist in this way, and have relations > > with > > > > > other beings who exist this way, is very important to be > > maintained > > > > > (until it isn't). > > > > > > > > > > It must be maintained for the sake of having a player in the > > game > > > > > called " survival. " > > > > > > > > > > As Toom observed, this has always been a bloody game, a game > > full > > > > of > > > > > victims looking for someone to blame, as they in turn > > victimize. > > > > > > > > > > But give up the stake in the game? > > > > > > > > > > Give up having a life of experiences to claim as one's own, and > > > > > relations with others of various types? > > > > > > > > > > Giving up the game is only to understand what isn't so, and > > thus > > > > > disinvest. > > > > > > > > > > There is no realization of what is so. > > > > > > > > > > There is disinvestment in what isn't so. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah - so now we're back to " there's no realization " . Ok, so > > > > everything's fine. Don't tell me off for saying " I " !!! If I'm > > fine > > > > as I am then I don't need to hear anymore stuff about beliefs > > and > > > > illusions. Amazing how so many people have so much to say here > > about > > > > everything here. Analysing my sentences instead of just taking > > them > > > > for face value. Something is not right here. For the first time > > in > > > > 10 years I question the Avaita path. Apart from perhaps Bill's > > > > comments, and may be one or two others, none of anything anyone > > has > > > > said has seemed kind or helpful or beneficial to me. Too many > > > > wannabe gurus, not possible to have normal conversation. The > > only > > > > good thing you do is write poetry to each other - which is fine. > > > > I'll run along and let you get on with it. > > > > > > > > If you can't talk to people in normal way, you can't help them. > > So > > > > what's the use of it all? If you can't benefit others? I don't > > want > > > > to be like that. I'd sooner stick with my ignorance and die > > along > > > > with normal people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you think that anyone here is trying to help others? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Certain people have shown that they want to help. > > > > But if not interested in helping others, why are you here? Why all > > the writing and arguing? And why am I not allowed to do but you and > > Dan can? Ah, I know, it's because I'm not one of the club. This is > > an enlightened one's club where you all to sing and dance to each > > other, and quickly the spot those who aren't one of you (or with > > you) Reminds me of the 70s film invasion of the body snatchers where > > the humans, when identified, are pointed out with a long finger > > accompanied by a loud, unearthly shriek. Or could there be such a > > thing as snobbery here? Is that possible? I wouldn't have thought so > > but I've learned a lot since I came here and it wouldn't surprise me > > now. There's a certain smugness about the behaviour of some of you > > that makes me feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. > > > > You mentioned Christ and Buddha and few others earlier, as if to > > compare yourself to them. Well they were all into helping others, > > these " non-existant entities " > > > > So when I said I hope I can be quiet about my realisation in that > > other thread, perhaps you now know why. > If you want to deify other humans........do that. > > As for me......there is no head higher them my own. > > > > toombaru I agreed with Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki when he wrote of that moldy oldy, way back in 1959 when I read my first Suzuki book on Zen.........nice rerun though. Boy that guy had a million of those zingers didn't he. .......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > > > > individual > > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > > That is due to the belief that a body-mind that is > > recognizable as > > > > a > > > > > unit and given a name is the seat of a knowing entity that has > > > > > experiences and knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > The belief that one can exist in this way, and have relations > > with > > > > > other beings who exist this way, is very important to be > > maintained > > > > > (until it isn't). > > > > > > > > > > It must be maintained for the sake of having a player in the > > game > > > > > called " survival. " > > > > > > > > > > As Toom observed, this has always been a bloody game, a game > > full > > > > of > > > > > victims looking for someone to blame, as they in turn > > victimize. > > > > > > > > > > But give up the stake in the game? > > > > > > > > > > Give up having a life of experiences to claim as one's own, and > > > > > relations with others of various types? > > > > > > > > > > Giving up the game is only to understand what isn't so, and > > thus > > > > > disinvest. > > > > > > > > > > There is no realization of what is so. > > > > > > > > > > There is disinvestment in what isn't so. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah - so now we're back to " there's no realization " . Ok, so > > > > everything's fine. Don't tell me off for saying " I " !!! If I'm > > fine > > > > as I am then I don't need to hear anymore stuff about beliefs > > and > > > > illusions. Amazing how so many people have so much to say here > > about > > > > everything here. Analysing my sentences instead of just taking > > them > > > > for face value. Something is not right here. For the first time > > in > > > > 10 years I question the Avaita path. Apart from perhaps Bill's > > > > comments, and may be one or two others, none of anything anyone > > has > > > > said has seemed kind or helpful or beneficial to me. Too many > > > > wannabe gurus, not possible to have normal conversation. The > > only > > > > good thing you do is write poetry to each other - which is fine. > > > > I'll run along and let you get on with it. > > > > > > > > If you can't talk to people in normal way, you can't help them. > > So > > > > what's the use of it all? If you can't benefit others? I don't > > want > > > > to be like that. I'd sooner stick with my ignorance and die > > along > > > > with normal people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you think that anyone here is trying to help others? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Certain people have shown that they want to help. > > > > But if not interested in helping others, why are you here? Why all > > the writing and arguing? And why am I not allowed to do but you and > > Dan can? Ah, I know, it's because I'm not one of the club. This is > > an enlightened one's club where you all to sing and dance to each > > other, and quickly the spot those who aren't one of you (or with > > you) Reminds me of the 70s film invasion of the body snatchers where > > the humans, when identified, are pointed out with a long finger > > accompanied by a loud, unearthly shriek. Or could there be such a > > thing as snobbery here? Is that possible? I wouldn't have thought so > > but I've learned a lot since I came here and it wouldn't surprise me > > now. There's a certain smugness about the behaviour of some of you > > that makes me feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. > > > > You mentioned Christ and Buddha and few others earlier, as if to > > compare yourself to them. Well they were all into helping others, > > these " non-existant entities " > > > > So when I said I hope I can be quiet about my realisation in that > > other thread, perhaps you now know why. > If you want to deify other humans........do that. > > As for me......there is no head higher them my own. > > > > toombaru > me too. By the way, how tall are you? I mean, if we're going to be dating. (PS: I'm not gay, but what if I was?) (-;.......! ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to deify other humans........do that. > > > > As for me......there is no head higher them my own. > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing that can block the view of your own pristine > naturalness............is other people's heads. Where do you get these one-liners from? > > > > > > (bumper sticker) > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > > > > individual > > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > > That is due to the belief that a body-mind that is > > recognizable as > > > > a > > > > > unit and given a name is the seat of a knowing entity that has > > > > > experiences and knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > The belief that one can exist in this way, and have relations > > with > > > > > other beings who exist this way, is very important to be > > maintained > > > > > (until it isn't). > > > > > > > > > > It must be maintained for the sake of having a player in the > > game > > > > > called " survival. " > > > > > > > > > > As Toom observed, this has always been a bloody game, a game > > full > > > > of > > > > > victims looking for someone to blame, as they in turn > > victimize. > > > > > > > > > > But give up the stake in the game? > > > > > > > > > > Give up having a life of experiences to claim as one's own, and > > > > > relations with others of various types? > > > > > > > > > > Giving up the game is only to understand what isn't so, and > > thus > > > > > disinvest. > > > > > > > > > > There is no realization of what is so. > > > > > > > > > > There is disinvestment in what isn't so. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah - so now we're back to " there's no realization " . Ok, so > > > > everything's fine. Don't tell me off for saying " I " !!! If I'm > > fine > > > > as I am then I don't need to hear anymore stuff about beliefs > > and > > > > illusions. Amazing how so many people have so much to say here > > about > > > > everything here. Analysing my sentences instead of just taking > > them > > > > for face value. Something is not right here. For the first time > > in > > > > 10 years I question the Avaita path. Apart from perhaps Bill's > > > > comments, and may be one or two others, none of anything anyone > > has > > > > said has seemed kind or helpful or beneficial to me. Too many > > > > wannabe gurus, not possible to have normal conversation. The > > only > > > > good thing you do is write poetry to each other - which is fine. > > > > I'll run along and let you get on with it. > > > > > > > > If you can't talk to people in normal way, you can't help them. > > So > > > > what's the use of it all? If you can't benefit others? I don't > > want > > > > to be like that. I'd sooner stick with my ignorance and die > > along > > > > with normal people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you think that anyone here is trying to help others? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Certain people have shown that they want to help. > > > > But if not interested in helping others, why are you here? Why all > > the writing and arguing? And why am I not allowed to do but you and > > Dan can? Ah, I know, it's because I'm not one of the club. This is > > an enlightened one's club where you all to sing and dance to each > > other, and quickly the spot those who aren't one of you (or with > > you) Reminds me of the 70s film invasion of the body snatchers where > > the humans, when identified, are pointed out with a long finger > > accompanied by a loud, unearthly shriek. Or could there be such a > > thing as snobbery here? Is that possible? I wouldn't have thought so > > but I've learned a lot since I came here and it wouldn't surprise me > > now. There's a certain smugness about the behaviour of some of you > > that makes me feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. > > > > You mentioned Christ and Buddha and few others earlier, as if to > > compare yourself to them. Well they were all into helping others, > > these " non-existant entities " > > > > So when I said I hope I can be quite about my realisation in that > > other thread, perhaps you now know why. > > > > > Oh..........One more thing. > > You can give up the hope for realization. > > No human has ever become realized. > > > > toombaru > But I thought humans didn't exist? I thought it was all make- believe. But, thanks for the tidbit of information - you're really a cheerful one aren't you? Btw, what makes you think I have " hope " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to deify other humans........do that. > > > > > > As for me......there is no head higher them my own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing that can block the view of your own pristine > > naturalness............is other people's heads. > > Where do you get these one-liners from? > > > > > > When the container is agitated....they bubble up from the fermenting mnemonic debris.......and burst when they reach the surface. Some I catch....and put in a bottle......most simply evaporate into the emptiness. toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > <jasondedonno@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > > > > > individual > > > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is due to the belief that a body-mind that is > > > recognizable as > > > > > a > > > > > > unit and given a name is the seat of a knowing entity that > has > > > > > > experiences and knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief that one can exist in this way, and have > relations > > > with > > > > > > other beings who exist this way, is very important to be > > > maintained > > > > > > (until it isn't). > > > > > > > > > > > > It must be maintained for the sake of having a player in > the > > > game > > > > > > called " survival. " > > > > > > > > > > > > As Toom observed, this has always been a bloody game, a > game > > > full > > > > > of > > > > > > victims looking for someone to blame, as they in turn > > > victimize. > > > > > > > > > > > > But give up the stake in the game? > > > > > > > > > > > > Give up having a life of experiences to claim as one's > own, and > > > > > > relations with others of various types? > > > > > > > > > > > > Giving up the game is only to understand what isn't so, > and > > > thus > > > > > > disinvest. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no realization of what is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is disinvestment in what isn't so. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah - so now we're back to " there's no realization " . Ok, so > > > > > everything's fine. Don't tell me off for saying " I " !!! If > I'm > > > fine > > > > > as I am then I don't need to hear anymore stuff about > beliefs > > > and > > > > > illusions. Amazing how so many people have so much to say > here > > > about > > > > > everything here. Analysing my sentences instead of just > taking > > > them > > > > > for face value. Something is not right here. For the first > time > > > in > > > > > 10 years I question the Avaita path. Apart from perhaps > Bill's > > > > > comments, and may be one or two others, none of anything > anyone > > > has > > > > > said has seemed kind or helpful or beneficial to me. Too > many > > > > > wannabe gurus, not possible to have normal conversation. The > > > only > > > > > good thing you do is write poetry to each other - which is > fine. > > > > > I'll run along and let you get on with it. > > > > > > > > > > If you can't talk to people in normal way, you can't help > them. > > > So > > > > > what's the use of it all? If you can't benefit others? I > don't > > > want > > > > > to be like that. I'd sooner stick with my ignorance and die > > > along > > > > > with normal people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes you think that anyone here is trying to help others? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Certain people have shown that they want to help. > > > > > > But if not interested in helping others, why are you here? Why > all > > > the writing and arguing? And why am I not allowed to do but you > and > > > Dan can? Ah, I know, it's because I'm not one of the club. This > is > > > an enlightened one's club where you all to sing and dance to > each > > > other, and quickly the spot those who aren't one of you (or with > > > you) Reminds me of the 70s film invasion of the body snatchers > where > > > the humans, when identified, are pointed out with a long finger > > > accompanied by a loud, unearthly shriek. Or could there be such > a > > > thing as snobbery here? Is that possible? I wouldn't have > thought so > > > but I've learned a lot since I came here and it wouldn't > surprise me > > > now. There's a certain smugness about the behaviour of some of > you > > > that makes me feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. > > > > > > You mentioned Christ and Buddha and few others earlier, as if to > > > compare yourself to them. Well they were all into helping > others, > > > these " non-existant entities " > > > > > > So when I said I hope I can be quite about my realisation in > that > > > other thread, perhaps you now know why. > > > > > > > > > Oh..........One more thing. > > > > You can give up the hope for realization. > > > > No human has ever become realized. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > But I thought humans didn't exist? I thought it was all make- > believe. But, thanks for the tidbit of information - you're really a > cheerful one aren't you? > > Btw, what makes you think I have " hope " ? > I am is half fear....half hope. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > How is it you continually argue with each other? How do you think this > looks from the outside? I perceive it as energy from interacting with words. If one person speaks words that raises questions about what another person says, why not be equally as aware in that situation, as in a situation when you read words that seemingly agree with each other? Is being aware only for words that support and agree with one another? I personally don't feel like I'm in an argument, more like an inquiry in which questions are raised about assumptions. Of course, I can't account for how someone perceives who considers himself to be " outside " and viewing an " argument " and is concerned about how it looks. I can just say how it is for me. I respect Toombaru and consider him to be involved in inquiry, as am I, and as are all, even if many are unaware of it. It seems to me valuable to be equally open if there is disagreement and questions about assumptions made in statements. Otherwise, how to value a democracy or an open forum for exchanging ideas? Perhaps consider that cults require uniformity of view, an appearance of " harmony " , and people expected to show they are always in agreement with each other, and the doctrinnaire views which the leader represents. That mode of spiritual inquiry has outgrown its usefulness, from my perspective. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > individual > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > That is due to the belief that a body-mind that is recognizable as > a > > unit and given a name is the seat of a knowing entity that has > > experiences and knowledge. > > > > The belief that one can exist in this way, and have relations with > > other beings who exist this way, is very important to be maintained > > (until it isn't). > > > > It must be maintained for the sake of having a player in the game > > called " survival. " > > > > As Toom observed, this has always been a bloody game, a game full > of > > victims looking for someone to blame, as they in turn victimize. > > > > But give up the stake in the game? > > > > Give up having a life of experiences to claim as one's own, and > > relations with others of various types? > > > > Giving up the game is only to understand what isn't so, and thus > > disinvest. > > > > There is no realization of what is so. > > > > There is disinvestment in what isn't so. > > > > -- Dan > > > > Ah - so now we're back to " there's no realization " . Ok, so > everything's fine. Don't tell me off for saying " I " !!! D: Why would I do that? I didn't say everything is fine. There are lots of things that aren't fine. > If I'm fine > as I am then I don't need to hear anymore stuff about beliefs and > illusions. D: Inquiry isn't for everyone. Amazing how so many people have so much to say here about > everything here. Analysing my sentences instead of just taking them > for face value. Something is not right here. For the first time in > 10 years I question the Avaita path. D: So, you are engaged in inquiry then? Apart from perhaps Bill's > comments, and may be one or two others, none of anything anyone has > said has seemed kind or helpful or beneficial to me. Too many > wannabe gurus, not possible to have normal conversation. The only > good thing you do is write poetry to each other - which is fine. > I'll run along and let you get on with it. D: Okay. > If you can't talk to people in normal way, you can't help them. So > what's the use of it all? If you can't benefit others? I don't want > to be like that. I'd sooner stick with my ignorance and die along > with normal people. D: That's a good point. Thanks for sharing it. The one who doesn't know, knows. The one who thinks he knows, doesn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > How is it you continually argue with each other? How do you think this > > looks from the outside? > > > > > I don't know about Dan.........but I simply do not care about what > others think we are doing. > > toombaru It's much easier to invest in an opinion about what someone else is supposedly doing, than to question the extent to which one's attempt to hold onto opinions constitutes the sense of self. -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > How is it you continually argue with each other? How do you think this > > looks from the outside? > > I perceive it as energy from interacting with words. > > If one person speaks words that raises questions about what another > person says, why not be equally as aware in that situation, as in a > situation when you read words that seemingly agree with each other? > > Is being aware only for words that support and agree with one another? > > I personally don't feel like I'm in an argument, more like an inquiry > in which questions are raised about assumptions. > > Of course, I can't account for how someone perceives who considers > himself to be " outside " and viewing an " argument " and is concerned > about how it looks. > > I can just say how it is for me. > > I respect Toombaru and consider him to be involved in inquiry, as am > I, and as are all, even if many are unaware of it. > > It seems to me valuable to be equally open if there is disagreement > and questions about assumptions made in statements. Otherwise, how to > value a democracy or an open forum for exchanging ideas? > > Perhaps consider that cults require uniformity of view, an appearance > of " harmony " , and people expected to show they are always in agreement > with each other, and the doctrinnaire views which the leader > represents. That mode of spiritual inquiry has outgrown its > usefulness, from my perspective. > > -- Dan Yea Dan.....I totally agree with you....but I have been told (not by the moderator mind you, but by one who feels he speaks for all) that these (open) forums are not democracies but absolute dictatorships...and also that without the appearance of harmony and uniformity of opinion, style, likeability, what have you......that one becomes the 'uninvited' and 'unwelcomed', and of course I just get a laugh or two out of that, and actually am in total awe at their fascination with those of whom they refer(especially if it is I). I am too gracious to mention any names in this regard, but most sensible people know a spade when they see one, or have one described.......kids will be kids. And also as one on moderation, I find it to be that the vast number of my posts DO get on the board....you just have to wait a bit until the moderator gets the time to review them......and that's OK with me. As a matter of fact, it adds some spice and life to the process. Anyway, 'nough said.......I do agree with your entire premise here and I mean this sincerely. ...........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 > Perhaps consider that cults require uniformity of view, an appearance > of " harmony " , and people expected to show they are always in agreement > with each other, and the doctrinnaire views which the leader > represents. That mode of spiritual inquiry has outgrown its > usefulness, from my perspective. > > -- Dan > Since there is only one, not two, how can there be argument? Can you see Niz arguing with Ramana? But if these arguing people are like me, ie still identified with the body-mind, then that's ok - I can accept that. That's what I expected to find here when I joined. But these same people are talking to me in enigmatic koan-like or sutra like one-liners. Can you see the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > Perhaps consider that cults require uniformity of view, an appearance > > of " harmony " , and people expected to show they are always in > agreement > > with each other, and the doctrinnaire views which the leader > > represents. That mode of spiritual inquiry has outgrown its > > usefulness, from my perspective. > > > > -- Dan > > > > Since there is only one, not two, how can there be argument? > > Can you see Niz arguing with Ramana? Yes, why not? Krishnamurti and Osho had a running, very intense disagreement. Muktananda had it in for other gurus, Frank Jones turned against Muktananda. Buddhist sects have had ongoing arguments about the nature of enlightenment, on and on it goes. I don't keep track of all the guru stories about their disagreements, why they started a new sect of their own, etc. > > But if these arguing people are like me, ie still identified with the > body-mind, then that's ok - I can accept that. That's what I expected > to find here when I joined. But these same people are talking to me in > enigmatic koan-like or sutra like one-liners. Can you see the problem? Why do you assume there are two different types of people in the world, the ones who identify and the ones that don't identify? You are putting one imaginary group on a pedestal and the other down in the dirt, and in so doing, reality has been divided (mentally, not really). Everything is on an equal playing field. Whatever seems higher, is only in contrast with whatever is lower. It's all of one piece. One peace -- No enigma at all. No question to be solved, unless you stand when you inquire. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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