Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On Jul 3, 2006, at 4:47 PM, adithya_comming wrote: > > > NonDualPhil , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > >> > >> [...] > >> > >>> nisargadatta: > >>> In his own words, > >>> " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > >> yourself > >>> to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find your > > real > >>> Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would spend > >>> looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it made, > > and > >>> how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > nature. " > >>> > >>> it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > >>> > >>> how did you realize your true nature ? > >>> > >> > >> > >> A: If there is a real objective way to > >> measure that Nisargadatta [or someone > >> else] realized/achieved something that > >> others didn't only then the question of > >> realization can be answered in any real > >> way. > >> > >> Do you know of any such way? > > P: Since you are asking the question, > you should start by defining what realization > is to you. But let's start by saying that no > matter what you think it is, you must agree > it's a subjective something. or other. And is there > any objective way to measure anything > subjective. Can anyone objectively measure > your sadness, or your pleasure? How can I > be sure you see red exactly as I do? > > >> > >> A: If not... talk of " realization " just > >> remains mere 'talk', stories, speculation, > >> mental dreams and fantasies. > >> > >> For all we know, Nisargadatta himself > >> might have been mistaken, wrong fantasizing or > >> even 'lying'. > >> > >> How do I know that Nisargadatta was " realized " ? > > P: What I know, is that reading his words changed > my life for the better, not only mine but many others. > If you ever have made the life of anyone better, then > you changed the world in a small measure. That is > not a small thing, better, imo, than to have the highest > realization, and to stay in a cave by yourself. > > > A: If 'professional' 'gurus' like Adyashanti, Gangaji, > > Tolle, Katie, Ramesh, Kalkie, Sai Baba, Sailor Bob, > > Adi da let imaprtial, neutral scientists observe and > > examine their mental state, body, brain > > in an objective way and on regular intervals for an > > extended time - only then, we might have some > > " objective " way to know what " realization " is. > > > > Until then, it will remain just " talk " ... > > P: If they did that, we'll only know how their brain's > activity looks in a catscan, or any other machine, > and what those activities have in common. It won't > tells how they feel, or how can we get to be like them. > > > A: It is my experience that I don't have a 'constant' > > mental state. I am neither always peaceful, nor always > > full of love, nor always perfectly happy! > > Sometimes I am as if in the state of deep dreamless > > sleep while awake, other times I am frantic. Sometimes > > I am even scared and holding onto my breath thinking > > that I don't 'consciously' breathe I might die. > > P: Well, Arvin, I'm not loving or happy all the time > either, although I'm never frantic. I guess the difference > between us is that I don't mind not feeling happy or loving, > when I don't. I know there is no " me " to hold to any feeling, > so they come and go without staying long. Impermanence > is FINE. I love it! > > > > > > A: When I look at many pictures of Ramana - he too > > doesn't look perfectly happy, clam in every picture > > of his. > > > > When I hear stories of gurus from their close > > associates - I hear the incidence to common > > human emotions that occur in other humans > > too. > > > > Based on this data, realization as in " always > > happy " or " always peaceful " looks false or > > at least 'not yet achieved by any human'. > > P: Always happy, always anything, would have > no meaning. To feel happy, you need to be sad > sometimes. Is not what it is felt, but the empty > center through which those feelings float without > sticking around like clouds through a summer sky, > which is the core of realization. And how do you, > objectively, measure that? > I FORGOT I'm sorry, but i forgot which is your hand? I'm sorry, but i forgot where is your eye? you are in me oh, so very deeply and I need to know where do you end and I begin? which is your leg, thigh? you are in me oh, so very deeply my breathing is getting heavy which lung is yours? my tears fall my tears fall I need to touch you I need to touch you how can I touch you how can I touch you if you are so very deeply in me? my head hurts, which side of my brain, what am I half of? my body wanders around restlessly, where are we going? where is my beating heart? what have you done with my soul? you are in me so very deeply... YIL, Ana 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
