Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity denied. > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is inseparably > what > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an imaginary > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never required > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble truth, the > first > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > toombaru > if you do not know I cannot tell you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity denied. > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is inseparably > what > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an imaginary > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never required > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble truth, the > first > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > toombaru > ** Not the word, obviously. We can't become aware of what is never-not, or always- already the case. Doesn't enter, doesn't leave. No beginning nor end nor duration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > <kenj02001@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity denied. > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is inseparably > > what > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an imaginary > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never > required > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble truth, the > > first > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > if you do not know > I cannot tell you > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is inseparably > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an imaginary > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never > > required > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble truth, the > > > first > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > if you do not know > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > toombaru And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? ......bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > inseparably > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > never > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > as an > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > truth, the > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > toombaru > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > ......bob > I don't understand the question. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > inseparably > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > never > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > as an > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > truth, the > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > toombaru > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > ......bob > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to change. They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all living creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of cause and effect is uniform and without exception. But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when the law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as the permanent in its changes. Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth strives to know itself. There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power in the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. But the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and its life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. Its beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth in the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but it is not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self only. The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, it is the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but what flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the assertion of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil-doer, the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self promises a fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But the pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the road to misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that never can be satisfied. Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us from misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. Truth gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches the flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has found the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and tribulations of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he remains unaffected by the evils of life. Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although he may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; he is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his work; he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is purity and goodness. Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the Buddha! ..bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were > a > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > inseparably > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > never > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > truth, the > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > which > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > ......bob > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to change. > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all living > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of cause > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when the > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as the > permanent in its changes. > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > strives to know itself. > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power in > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. But > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and its > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. Its > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth in > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but it is > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > only. > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, it is > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but what > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the assertion > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil-doer, > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self promises a > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But the > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the road to > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > never can be satisfied. > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us from > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. Truth > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches the > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has found > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and tribulations > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although he > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; he > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his work; > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > purity and goodness. > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > Buddha! > > > ..bob > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in Understanding. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were > > a > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > > inseparably > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > > never > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > > truth, the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > > which > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to change. > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all living > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of cause > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when the > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as the > > permanent in its changes. > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > > strives to know itself. > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power in > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. But > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and its > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. Its > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth in > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but it is > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > > only. > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, it is > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but what > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the assertion > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil-doer, > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self promises a > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But the > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the road to > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > > never can be satisfied. > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us from > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. Truth > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches the > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has found > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and tribulations > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although he > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; he > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his work; > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > > purity and goodness. > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > Buddha! > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in Understanding. > > > > > toombaru > A brick can never be polished enough to become a mirror. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > inseparably > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > never > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > truth, the > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > ......bob > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > toombaru I don't understand the answer........but " You cannot tell me because 'this very statement' is merely a 'grouping of' words......a concept that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. " :toombaru 5/16/06 (modified) Very good then....if he can't tell you what truth is, you cannot tell him what your statement regarding same means. And without meaning, no statement of anything can be made. You will agree that your statement is as meaningless and non-existent then as 'truth'.....whatever you call it.As defined(a word that itself means 'limitation'), all 'things' are only a partial aspect of whatever 'is', and cannot be further elucidated by or for anyone at any time.. anywhere.. Why say anything then. I speak and write for the same illusory reasons you do toom. And if we are to take every word thus rendered and ask for a 'true' definition.....well it's ridiculous. What's the true meaning of truth? what's behind the word or meaning of truth. Whats...it's a rats trap and you know it. Sounds profound but it ain't. .......bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there > were a > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor > entity > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > > inseparably > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > > never > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real > enough, > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > > truth, the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a > concept > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > which > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > toombaru > > I don't understand the answer........but > > " You cannot tell me because 'this very statement' is merely > a 'grouping of' words......a concept > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. " :toombaru 5/16/06 (modified) > > > Very good then....if he can't tell you what truth is, you cannot tell > him what your statement regarding same means. And without meaning, no > statement of anything can be made. Indeed. Understand that to the core......and everything falls apart. You will agree that your statement > is as meaningless and non-existent then as 'truth'.....whatever you > call it.As defined(a word that itself means 'limitation'), > all 'things' are only a partial aspect of whatever 'is', and cannot > be further elucidated by or for anyone at any time.. anywhere.. Why > say anything then. Because there is no choice. Consciousness reaches out to its self to alleviate the apparent suffering. I speak and write for the same illusory reasons > you do toom. And if we are to take every word thus rendered and ask > for a 'true' definition.....well it's ridiculous. It's a short cut through the labyrinth of darkness. What's the true > meaning of truth? what's behind the word or meaning of truth. > Whats...it's a rats trap and you know it. Sounds profound but it > ain't. > > .......bob > Profound is as profound does. (I have no idea what that means.....LOL) Want some scones? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were > > a > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > > inseparably > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > > never > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > > truth, the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > > which > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to change. > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all living > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of cause > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when the > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as the > > permanent in its changes. > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > > strives to know itself. > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power in > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. But > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and its > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. Its > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth in > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but it is > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > > only. > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, it is > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but what > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the assertion > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil- doer, > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self promises a > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But the > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the road to > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > > never can be satisfied. > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us from > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. Truth > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches the > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has found > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and tribulations > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although he > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; he > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his work; > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > > purity and goodness. > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > Buddha! > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in Understanding. > > > > > toombaru I understand that. and it's just a hunch, but I think maybe Buddha and the boys understood that as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only you have a handle on ALL matters Spiritual and Cognative and Religious and .....well gosh darn it all, just everything. But I'm not betting on that and I'm not buying that bullshit either. Good try toom. Impressive fer sure....to whom I'm not so sure. ........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there > were > > > a > > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor > entity > > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, > is > > > > inseparably > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward > an > > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and > being > > > > never > > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real > enough, > > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first > noble > > > > truth, the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a > concept > > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > > > which > > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to > change. > > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all > living > > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of > cause > > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when > the > > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as > the > > > permanent in its changes. > > > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > > > strives to know itself. > > > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power > in > > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. > But > > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and > its > > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. > Its > > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth > in > > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but > it is > > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > > > only. > > > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, > it is > > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but > what > > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the > assertion > > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil- > doer, > > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self > promises a > > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But > the > > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the > road to > > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > > > never can be satisfied. > > > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us > from > > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. > Truth > > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches > the > > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has > found > > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and > tribulations > > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although > he > > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; > he > > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his > work; > > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > > > purity and goodness. > > > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, > for he > > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth > has > > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his > understanding, > > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The > truth > > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work > the > > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth > alone > > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the > truth > > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > > Buddha! > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > I understand that. and it's just a hunch, but I think maybe Buddha > and the boys understood that as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only you > have a handle on ALL matters Spiritual and Cognative and Religious > and .....well gosh darn it all, just everything. But I'm not betting > on that and I'm not buying that bullshit either. Good try toom. > Impressive fer sure....to whom I'm not so sure. > > ........bob > Fuck Buddha. All 'spiritual' ideas are made up. All 'religion' is a safety net for an imaginary self. See the conceptual overlay for what it is and all this groping in the dark night comes to an abrupt end. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there > > were > > > > a > > > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor > > entity > > > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > > > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of- that, > > is > > > > > inseparably > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward > > an > > > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and > > being > > > > > never > > > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real > > enough, > > > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first > > noble > > > > > truth, the > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > > > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a > > concept > > > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > > > > which > > > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to > > change. > > > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all > > living > > > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of > > cause > > > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when > > the > > > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as > > the > > > > permanent in its changes. > > > > > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > > > > strives to know itself. > > > > > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power > > in > > > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. > > But > > > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and > > its > > > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. > > Its > > > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth > > in > > > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but > > it is > > > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > > > > only. > > > > > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > > > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, > > it is > > > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but > > what > > > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the > > assertion > > > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil- > > doer, > > > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self > > promises a > > > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But > > the > > > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the > > road to > > > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > > > > never can be satisfied. > > > > > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us > > from > > > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > > > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. > > Truth > > > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches > > the > > > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has > > found > > > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and > > tribulations > > > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > > > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although > > he > > > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; > > he > > > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his > > work; > > > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > > > > purity and goodness. > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, > > for he > > > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth > > has > > > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his > > understanding, > > > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The > > truth > > > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work > > the > > > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth > > alone > > > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the > > truth > > > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > > > Buddha! > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in > > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > I understand that. and it's just a hunch, but I think maybe Buddha > > and the boys understood that as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only you > > have a handle on ALL matters Spiritual and Cognative and Religious > > and .....well gosh darn it all, just everything. But I'm not betting > > on that and I'm not buying that bullshit either. Good try toom. > > Impressive fer sure....to whom I'm not so sure. > > > > ........bob > > > > > > Fuck Buddha. > > All 'spiritual' ideas are made up. > > All 'religion' is a safety net for an imaginary self. > > > See the conceptual overlay for what it is and all this groping in the > dark night comes to an abrupt end. > > > toombaru OOooooookeeeeeeey Dooooookeeeeey Smokey. I agree FUCK IT ALL. Now See! It's all gone.........time for your famous scones....are they still warm? ........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 > Do not trust the content of consciousness to be objective about that > which it imagines to be beyond its imaginary prison. > > The 'self' exists only behind prison walls. > > It IS the prison. > to imagine a perceiving of the " prison " of another... is... ------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if > there > > > were > > > > > a > > > > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' > nor > > > entity > > > > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > > > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, > energy, > > > > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of- > that, > > > is > > > > > > inseparably > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion > toward > > > an > > > > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and > > > being > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real > > > enough, > > > > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first > > > noble > > > > > > truth, the > > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here > existence of > > > > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a > word......a > > > concept > > > > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo > realm in > > > > > which > > > > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to > > > change. > > > > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and > all > > > living > > > > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law > of > > > cause > > > > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > > > > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and > when > > > the > > > > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara > as > > > the > > > > > permanent in its changes. > > > > > > > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; > truth > > > > > strives to know itself. > > > > > > > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no > power > > > in > > > > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its > existence. > > > But > > > > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant > and > > > its > > > > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears > fruit. > > > Its > > > > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is > truth > > > in > > > > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > > > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, > but > > > it is > > > > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of > self > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides > the > > > > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of > illusion, > > > it is > > > > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil > but > > > what > > > > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the > > > assertion > > > > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > > > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > > > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil- > > > doer, > > > > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self > > > promises a > > > > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. > But > > > the > > > > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the > > > road to > > > > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires > that > > > > > never can be satisfied. > > > > > > > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save > us > > > from > > > > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > > > > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery > and > > > > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. > > > Truth > > > > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it > quenches > > > the > > > > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has > > > found > > > > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and > > > tribulations > > > > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and > death; he > > > > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, > although > > > he > > > > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may > suffer; > > > he > > > > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his > > > work; > > > > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his > being is > > > > > purity and goodness. > > > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of > Buddhahood, > > > for he > > > > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The > truth > > > has > > > > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his > > > understanding, > > > > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The > > > truth > > > > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! > Work > > > the > > > > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for > truth > > > alone > > > > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the > > > truth > > > > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be > the > > > > > Buddha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in > > > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that. and it's just a hunch, but I think maybe > Buddha > > > and the boys understood that as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only > you > > > have a handle on ALL matters Spiritual and Cognative and > Religious > > > and .....well gosh darn it all, just everything. But I'm not > betting > > > on that and I'm not buying that bullshit either. Good try toom. > > > Impressive fer sure....to whom I'm not so sure. > > > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > > > Fuck Buddha. > > > > All 'spiritual' ideas are made up. > > > > All 'religion' is a safety net for an imaginary self. > > > > > > See the conceptual overlay for what it is and all this groping in > the > > dark night comes to an abrupt end. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > OOooooookeeeeeeey Dooooookeeeeey Smokey. I agree FUCK IT ALL. Now > See! It's all gone.........time for your famous scones....are they > still warm? > > ........bob > Yes they are. Sometimes Patricia and I share a lemon blueberry scone. They can be divided by three you know. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , > > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if > > there > > > > were > > > > > > a > > > > > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' > > nor > > > > entity > > > > > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > > > > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, > > energy, > > > > > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of- > > that, > > > > is > > > > > > > inseparably > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion > > toward > > > > an > > > > > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and > > > > being > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real > > > > enough, > > > > > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first > > > > noble > > > > > > > truth, the > > > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here > > existence of > > > > > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a > > word......a > > > > concept > > > > > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo > > realm in > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to > > > > change. > > > > > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and > > all > > > > living > > > > > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law > > of > > > > cause > > > > > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and > > when > > > > the > > > > > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara > > as > > > > the > > > > > > permanent in its changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; > > truth > > > > > > strives to know itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no > > power > > > > in > > > > > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its > > existence. > > > > But > > > > > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant > > and > > > > its > > > > > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears > > fruit. > > > > Its > > > > > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is > > truth > > > > in > > > > > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > > > > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, > > but > > > > it is > > > > > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of > > self > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides > > the > > > > > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of > > illusion, > > > > it is > > > > > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil > > but > > > > what > > > > > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the > > > > assertion > > > > > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > > > > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > > > > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil- > > > > doer, > > > > > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self > > > > promises a > > > > > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. > > But > > > > the > > > > > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the > > > > road to > > > > > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires > > that > > > > > > never can be satisfied. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save > > us > > > > from > > > > > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery > > and > > > > > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. > > > > Truth > > > > > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it > > quenches > > > > the > > > > > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has > > > > found > > > > > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and > > > > tribulations > > > > > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and > > death; he > > > > > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, > > although > > > > he > > > > > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may > > suffer; > > > > he > > > > > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his > > > > work; > > > > > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his > > being is > > > > > > purity and goodness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of > > Buddhahood, > > > > for he > > > > > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The > > truth > > > > has > > > > > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his > > > > understanding, > > > > > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The > > > > truth > > > > > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! > > Work > > > > the > > > > > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for > > truth > > > > alone > > > > > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the > > > > truth > > > > > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be > > the > > > > > > Buddha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in > > > > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that. and it's just a hunch, but I think maybe > > Buddha > > > > and the boys understood that as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only > > you > > > > have a handle on ALL matters Spiritual and Cognative and > > Religious > > > > and .....well gosh darn it all, just everything. But I'm not > > betting > > > > on that and I'm not buying that bullshit either. Good try toom. > > > > Impressive fer sure....to whom I'm not so sure. > > > > > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fuck Buddha. > > > > > > All 'spiritual' ideas are made up. > > > > > > All 'religion' is a safety net for an imaginary self. > > > > > > > > > See the conceptual overlay for what it is and all this groping in > > the > > > dark night comes to an abrupt end. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > OOooooookeeeeeeey Dooooookeeeeey Smokey. I agree FUCK IT ALL. Now > > See! It's all gone.........time for your famous scones....are they > > still warm? > > > > ........bob > > > > > Yes they are. > > Sometimes Patricia and I share a lemon blueberry scone. > > They can be divided by three you know. > > > toombaru Great.......count me in. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm! ........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is inseparably > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an imaginary > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never > > required > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble truth, the > > > first > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > if you do not know > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > toombaru > the answer you write here you write *for yourself* I have no answer for you my lips are sealed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 > Fuck Buddha. > > All 'spiritual' ideas are made up. > > All 'religion' is a safety net for an imaginary self. > > > See the conceptual overlay for what it is and all this > groping in the > dark night comes to an abrupt end. > > > toombaru > > > ooohhh!! Say <Forget Buddha> next time, and we`ll > understand. Sometime a cool washcloth placed on the forehead....and a mother's gaze....sometime a glass of ice water in the face...cuts through the haze. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > inseparably > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being never > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > truth, the > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in which > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > the answer you write here > you write *for yourself* > > I have no answer for you > > my lips are sealed! You are the creature in the current. I am always...........any only writing to my self. I am the only one here. toombaru toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- pliantheart <illusyn a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " kenj02001 " > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , > " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ > if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about > 'entity' nor entity > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, > energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the > awareness-of-that, is > inseparably > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of > I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until > it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering > motion/emotion toward an > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, > knowing and being never > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's > real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the > first noble > truth, the > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs > ____ " > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that > ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in > nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here > existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a > word......a concept > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo > realm in which > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > the answer you write here > you write *for yourself* > > I have no answer for you > > my lips are sealed! > > it is good to seal it, before it gets to dry. > > > > Open it up. Let it bleed out into the hot desert sands...into this searing light. Its time is up. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > --- pliantheart <illusyn@> a �crit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " kenj02001 " > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , > > " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ > > if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about > > 'entity' nor entity > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, > > energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the > > awareness-of-that, is > > inseparably > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of > > I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until > > it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering > > motion/emotion toward an > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, > > knowing and being never > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's > > real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the > > first noble > > truth, the > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs > > ____ " > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that > > ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in > > nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here > > existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a > > word......a concept > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo > > realm in which > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > the answer you write here > > you write *for yourself* > > > > I have no answer for you > > > > my lips are sealed! > > > > it is good to seal it, before it gets to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Open it up. > > Let it bleed out into the hot desert sands...into this searing light. > > Its time is up. > > > > toombaru > there is that which words cannot touch how can one know it then, if not for words to designate? call it mystery Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- pliantheart <illusyn@> a �crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ > > > if there were a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about > > > 'entity' nor entity > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be > > > relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, > > > energy, intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the > > > awareness-of-that, is > > > inseparably > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of > > > I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until > > > it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering > > > motion/emotion toward an > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, > > > knowing and being never > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's > > > real enough, as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the > > > first noble > > > truth, the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs > > > ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that > > > ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in > > > nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to > > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here > > > existence of Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a > > > word......a concept > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo > > > realm in which > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > the answer you write here > > > you write *for yourself* > > > > > > I have no answer for you > > > > > > my lips are sealed! > > > > > > it is good to seal it, before it gets to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Open it up. > > > > Let it bleed out into the hot desert sands...into this searing light. > > > > Its time is up. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > there is that which words > cannot touch > > how can one know it then, > if not for words to designate? > > call it mystery > You cannot know it........You CAN be it. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " > > > > > > > <kenj02001@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > > " lissbon2002 " > > > > > > > > > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self knowledge is all ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That might be true........ if there were > > a > > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** OY!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same ol', same ol' ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about 'entity' nor entity > > > denied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So avoidance can be relinquished...now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's about self-activity, energy, > > intent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the awareness-of-that, is > > > inseparably > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the hypnotic delusion of I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will appear real......until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** self-centering motion/emotion toward an > > > imaginary > > > > > > > > > > > > > center of perception, knowing and being > > > never > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > > > any I-am state or self. It's real enough, > > > as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > action. It's suffering--the first noble > > > truth, the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > > > grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' needs a home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Truth needs X " > > > > > > > > > > > not true AT ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like saying, " What Is needs ____ " > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing that can go into that ____. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did not write: 'Truth' does not exist. > > > > > > > > > You wrote: 'Truth' does not exist in nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very different statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not whether Truth exists or not. > > > > > > > > > Existence as attribute does not apply to Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we cannot meaningfully discuss here existence of > > Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there can be no doubt: > > > > > > > > > Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you expect me to *say*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hasn't it been clear from this discussion > > > > > > > that such could never be *said*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, Truth is the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it is the case.........what is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you do not know > > > > > I cannot tell you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot tell me because 'truth' is merely a word......a concept > > > > that arises from and is relative only to that pseudo realm in > > which > > > > the pseudo-self floats in dream-time. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > And just how can you tell him 'THIS'? > > > > > > ......bob > > > > > > > > > TRUTH, THE SAVIOR > > > > > > THE things of the world and its inhabitants are subject to change. > > They are combinations of elements that existed before, and all living > > creatures are what their past actions made them; for the law of cause > > and effect is uniform and without exception. > > > > But in the changing things there is a constancy of law, and when the > > law is seen there is truth. The truth lies hidden in Samsara as the > > permanent in its changes. > > > > Truth desires to appear; truth longs to become conscious; truth > > strives to know itself. > > > > There is truth in the stone, for the stone is here; and no power in > > the world, no god, no man, no demon, can destroy its existence. But > > the stone has no consciousness. There is truth in the plant and its > > life can expand; the plant grows and blossoms and bears fruit. Its > > beauty is marvelous, but it has no consciousness. There is truth in > > the animal; it moves about and perceives its surroundings; it > > distinguishes and learns to choose. There is consciousness, but it is > > not yet the consciousness of Truth. It is a consciousness of self > > only. > > > > The consciousness of self dims the eyes of the mind and hides the > > truth. It is the origin of error, it is the source of illusion, it is > > the germ of evil. Self begets selfishness. There is no evil but what > > flows from self. There is no wrong but what is done by the assertion > > of self. Self is the beginning of all hatred, of iniquity and > > slander, of impudence and indecency, of theft and robbery, of > > oppression and bloodshed. Self is Mara, the tempter, the evil-doer, > > the creator of mischief. Self entices with pleasures. Self promises a > > fairy's paradise. Self is the veil of Maya, the enchanter. But the > > pleasures of self are unreal, its paradisian labyrinth is the road to > > misery, and its fading beauty kindles the flames of desires that > > never can be satisfied. > > > > Who shall deliver us from the power of self? Who shall save us from > > misery? Who shall restore us to a life of blessedness? > > > > There is misery in the world of Samsara; there is much misery and > > pain. But greater than all the misery is the bliss of truth. Truth > > gives peace to the yearning mind; it conquers error; it quenches the > > flames of desires; it leads to Nirvana. Blessed is he who has found > > the peace of Nirvana. He is at rest in the struggles and tribulations > > of life; he is above all changes; he is above birth and death; he > > remains unaffected by the evils of life. > > > > Blessed is he who has found enlightenment. He conquers, although he > > may be wounded; he is glorious and happy, although he may suffer; he > > is strong, although he may break down under the burden of his work; > > he is immortal, although he will die. The essence of his being is > > purity and goodness. > > > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > Buddha! > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in Understanding. > > > > > toombaru Here's an example of what it's like to scroll down a bunch of verbiage to get to a one sentence response. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Blessed is he who has attained the sacred state of Buddhahood, for he > > is fit to work out the salvation of his fellow beings. The truth has > > taken its abode in him. Perfect wisdom illumines his understanding, > > and righteousness ensouls the purpose of all his actions. The truth > > is a living power for good, indestructible and invincible! Work the > > truth out in your mind, and spread it among mankind, for truth alone > > is the savior from evil and misery. The Buddha has found the truth > > and the truth has been proclaimed by the Buddha! Blessed be the > > Buddha! > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > What you seek is not within religiosity.....It lies in Understanding. > > > > > toombaru .... and here's an example, with snipping. Just to make the suggestion clear. -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > Very good then....if he can't tell you what truth is, you cannot tell > him what your statement regarding same means. And without meaning, no > statement of anything can be made. You will agree that your statement > is as meaningless and non-existent then as 'truth'.....whatever you > call it.As defined(a word that itself means 'limitation'), > all 'things' are only a partial aspect of whatever 'is', and cannot > be further elucidated by or for anyone at any time.. anywhere.. Why > say anything then. I speak and write for the same illusory reasons > you do toom. And if we are to take every word thus rendered and ask > for a 'true' definition.....well it's ridiculous. What's the true > meaning of truth? what's behind the word or meaning of truth. > Whats...it's a rats trap and you know it. Sounds profound but it > ain't. > > .......bob Indeed. Let's just notice that we agree that concepts have limitations, and that concepts can't be used to fully explain what those limitations are... .... and move on. ;-) -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
