Food for thought - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

March 25, 2006

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:14:58 -0000

" s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk;

and Hitler was a strict Vegan

Well, I can't argue with that at all. I have to agree and I will

make a more concerted effort, with the help of my wonderfully health

conscious vegetarian girlfriend, to eliminate meat from my diet.

She has done so and doesn't seem to be getting any worse for it. In

fact, her cooking is absolutely deliscious. Not at all difficult to

get used to. I was just going along with it because that's the type

of guy I am. Easy to get along with. But, I strongly object to

harming any living creature. Being a Witch, I strive to live by the

Witche's Rede, as I've mentioned before, which says, 'An It Harm

None, Do As Ye Wilt.' Very challenging rule to follow. Thank you

Bob for starting this conversation, thank you Tony for your useful

insight and thank you Len for the inspiration. Great stuff. And

thanks to anyone else I may have forgotten to mention here.

" Silver "

The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah lunges at it's

prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on the throat of

his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can this be seen for

the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear that arises from

far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine falcon dives at

a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's trajectory for

a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless at God's

wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

We lament death only in our ignorance of infinite life. We value love only

in it's sweetest disguise. Love is the creative force of the universe. It's

birth and death, serenity and chaos, wrapped in the splendor of wonder and

grace. Love, is life, is bounded by no mans rules, and if you've ever dared to

see it without it's mask, you know that there is no option but to surrender to

a force that will bring you to ecstasy, or snuff out your life in an instant

in it's own name only.

Honor birth and death both, but know that love will not commiserate with

your fear, it will only obliterate it.

Phil

March 26, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

> The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

lunges at it's

> prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on the

throat of

> his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can this

be seen for

> the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear that

arises from

> far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

falcon dives at

> a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

trajectory for

> a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless at

God's

> wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

Len

> We lament death only in our ignorance of infinite life. We value

love only

> in it's sweetest disguise. Love is the creative force of the

universe. It's

> birth and death, serenity and chaos, wrapped in the splendor of

wonder and

> grace. Love, is life, is bounded by no mans rules, and if you've

ever dared to

> see it without it's mask, you know that there is no option but to

surrender to

> a force that will bring you to ecstasy, or snuff out your life in

an instant

> in it's own name only.

>

> Honor birth and death both, but know that love will not

commiserate with

> your fear, it will only obliterate it.

>

> Phil

>

March 26, 2006

In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

> The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

lunges at it's

> prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on the

throat of

> his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can this

be seen for

> the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear that

arises from

> far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

falcon dives at

> a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

trajectory for

> a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless at

God's

> wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

Len

If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all things. If

one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees what is. I cannot,

and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is, however, my failing

and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's essence.

Phil

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

>

> > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> lunges at it's

> > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on

the

> throat of

> > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

this

> be seen for

> > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

that

> arises from

> > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

> falcon dives at

> > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

> trajectory for

> > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless

at

> God's

> > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

>

> And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

>

> Len

>

> If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

things. If

> one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees what

is. I cannot,

> and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is, however,

my failing

> and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

essence.

>

> Phil

Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps, divinity in

SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to learn...

Len

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:14:58 -0000

> " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk;

> and Hitler was a strict Vegan

Well, I can't argue with that at all. I have to agree and I will

> make a more concerted effort, with the help of my wonderfully

health

> conscious vegetarian girlfriend, to eliminate meat from my diet.

> She has done so and doesn't seem to be getting any worse for it.

In

> fact, her cooking is absolutely deliscious. Not at all difficult

to

> get used to. I was just going along with it because that's the

type

> of guy I am. Easy to get along with. But, I strongly object to

> harming any living creature. Being a Witch, I strive to live by

the

> Witche's Rede, as I've mentioned before, which says, 'An It Harm

> None, Do As Ye Wilt.' Very challenging rule to follow. Thank

you

> Bob for starting this conversation, thank you Tony for your

useful

> insight and thank you Len for the inspiration. Great stuff. And

> thanks to anyone else I may have forgotten to mention here.

>

> " Silver "

>

> The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

lunges at it's

> prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on the

throat of

> his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can this

be seen for

> the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear that

arises from

> far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

falcon dives at

> a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

trajectory for

> a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless at

God's

> wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

>

> We lament death only in our ignorance of infinite life. We value

love only

> in it's sweetest disguise. Love is the creative force of the

universe. It's

> birth and death, serenity and chaos, wrapped in the splendor of

wonder and

> grace. Love, is life, is bounded by no mans rules, and if you've

ever dared to

> see it without it's mask, you know that there is no option but to

surrender to

> a force that will bring you to ecstasy, or snuff out your life in

an instant

> in it's own name only.

>

> Honor birth and death both, but know that love will not

commiserate with

> your fear, it will only obliterate it.

>

> Phil

**************

Hmm. Recycling garbage is wiser than just throwing it in a ditch

somewhere. Rather than spit chewing gum on the pavement, wisdom

tells me that I ought to throw it in the garbage instead. Wisdom

tells me what is the best and least harmful course of action to

follow. The most loving way is always the wisest. It takes

conscientiousness to walk lightly upon Mother Earth. It's wiser and

less harmful to eat vegetarian style than to eat meat. It's not

eating meat that I object to as much as the eating meat from animals

that have been cruelly tortured. The Jews have Seven Rules for

Pagans or Gentiles to adhere to, one of them is the prohibition of

eating meat that has been severed from a living animal. In other

words, not diet but compassion is the rule. Wisdom and compassion.

For oneself. For others. For everything. If it doesn't harm, go

ahead and do whatever your heart desires. That's freedom. That's

love. Wisdom and compassion. I see no fear in it at all, as you

were trying to say. But you make a valid point which applies to

nature's cycle of birth and death and how life feeds on life. As

Nis said, we're food. Lol. At least our bodies are. But we're not

our bodies. Yada, yada, yada.

Remember Wisdom in all that we do. Honor and respect Sophia as much

as we pay homage to the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer Shiva.

Sophia and Shiva together are One and we are One with these

anthropomorphizations.

Your friendly Witch,

" Silver "

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:14:58 -0000

> > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@>

> > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

> drank milk;

> > and Hitler was a strict Vegan

> >

> > Well, I can't argue with that at all. I have to agree and I

will

> > make a more concerted effort, with the help of my wonderfully

> health

> > conscious vegetarian girlfriend, to eliminate meat from my

diet.

> > She has done so and doesn't seem to be getting any worse for

it.

> In

> > fact, her cooking is absolutely deliscious. Not at all

difficult

> to

> > get used to. I was just going along with it because that's the

> type

> > of guy I am. Easy to get along with. But, I strongly object to

> > harming any living creature. Being a Witch, I strive to live by

> the

> > Witche's Rede, as I've mentioned before, which says, 'An It Harm

> > None, Do As Ye Wilt.' Very challenging rule to follow. Thank

> you

> > Bob for starting this conversation, thank you Tony for your

> useful

> > insight and thank you Len for the inspiration. Great stuff.

And

> > thanks to anyone else I may have forgotten to mention here.

> >

> > " Silver "

> >

> > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> lunges at it's

> > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on the

> throat of

> > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can this

> be seen for

> > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear that

> arises from

> > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

> falcon dives at

> > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

> trajectory for

> > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless

at

> God's

> > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> >

> > We lament death only in our ignorance of infinite life. We value

> love only

> > in it's sweetest disguise. Love is the creative force of the

> universe. It's

> > birth and death, serenity and chaos, wrapped in the splendor of

> wonder and

> > grace. Love, is life, is bounded by no mans rules, and if you've

> ever dared to

> > see it without it's mask, you know that there is no option but to

> surrender to

> > a force that will bring you to ecstasy, or snuff out your life in

> an instant

> > in it's own name only.

> >

> > Honor birth and death both, but know that love will not

> commiserate with

> > your fear, it will only obliterate it.

> >

> > Phil

>

> **************

>

> Hmm. Recycling garbage is wiser than just throwing it in a ditch

> somewhere. Rather than spit chewing gum on the pavement, wisdom

> tells me that I ought to throw it in the garbage instead. Wisdom

> tells me what is the best and least harmful course of action to

> follow. The most loving way is always the wisest. It takes

> conscientiousness to walk lightly upon Mother Earth. It's wiser

and

> less harmful to eat vegetarian style than to eat meat. It's not

> eating meat that I object to as much as the eating meat from

animals

> that have been cruelly tortured. The Jews have Seven Rules for

> Pagans or Gentiles to adhere to, one of them is the prohibition of

> eating meat that has been severed from a living animal. In other

> words, not diet but compassion is the rule. Wisdom and

compassion.

> For oneself. For others. For everything. If it doesn't harm, go

> ahead and do whatever your heart desires. That's freedom. That's

> love. Wisdom and compassion. I see no fear in it at all, as you

> were trying to say. But you make a valid point which applies to

> nature's cycle of birth and death and how life feeds on life. As

> Nis said, we're food. Lol. At least our bodies are. But we're

not

> our bodies. Yada, yada, yada.

>

> Remember Wisdom in all that we do. Honor and respect Sophia as

much

> as we pay homage to the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer Shiva.

> Sophia and Shiva together are One and we are One with these

> anthropomorphizations.

>

> Your friendly Witch,

>

> " Silver "

>

Hi Silver...Is this the Anthropomorphic Principle that we hear so

much of these days in the Physics(or is that Psycic?) news of how the

universe is not too cold, not too hot but JUST RIGHT for all us

little humans?

:-) ( i learnt that one today).........bob

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

> drank milk

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> > lunges at it's

> > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on

> the

> > throat of

> > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

> this

> > be seen for

> > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

> that

> > arises from

> > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

peregrine

> > falcon dives at

> > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

> > trajectory for

> > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

breathless

> at

> > God's

> > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> >

> > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> >

> > Len

> >

> > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

> things. If

> > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees what

> is. I cannot,

> > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

however,

> my failing

> > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

> essence.

> >

> > Phil

>

> Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps, divinity

in

> SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

learn...

>

> Len

***************

When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

True?

len

;-)

" Silver "

>

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:14:58 -0000

> > > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@>

> > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat

and

> > drank milk;

> > > and Hitler was a strict Vegan

> > >

> > > Well, I can't argue with that at all. I have to agree and I

> will

> > > make a more concerted effort, with the help of my wonderfully

> > health

> > > conscious vegetarian girlfriend, to eliminate meat from my

> diet.

> > > She has done so and doesn't seem to be getting any worse for

> it.

> > In

> > > fact, her cooking is absolutely deliscious. Not at all

> difficult

> > to

> > > get used to. I was just going along with it because that's

the

> > type

> > > of guy I am. Easy to get along with. But, I strongly object

to

> > > harming any living creature. Being a Witch, I strive to live

by

> > the

> > > Witche's Rede, as I've mentioned before, which says, 'An It

Harm

> > > None, Do As Ye Wilt.' Very challenging rule to follow.

Thank

> > you

> > > Bob for starting this conversation, thank you Tony for your

> > useful

> > > insight and thank you Len for the inspiration. Great stuff.

> And

> > > thanks to anyone else I may have forgotten to mention here.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> > lunges at it's

> > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on

the

> > throat of

> > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

this

> > be seen for

> > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

that

> > arises from

> > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

peregrine

> > falcon dives at

> > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

> > trajectory for

> > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

breathless

> at

> > God's

> > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> > >

> > > We lament death only in our ignorance of infinite life. We

value

> > love only

> > > in it's sweetest disguise. Love is the creative force of the

> > universe. It's

> > > birth and death, serenity and chaos, wrapped in the splendor

of

> > wonder and

> > > grace. Love, is life, is bounded by no mans rules, and if

you've

> > ever dared to

> > > see it without it's mask, you know that there is no option but

to

> > surrender to

> > > a force that will bring you to ecstasy, or snuff out your life

in

> > an instant

> > > in it's own name only.

> > >

> > > Honor birth and death both, but know that love will not

> > commiserate with

> > > your fear, it will only obliterate it.

> > >

> > > Phil

> >

> > **************

> >

> > Hmm. Recycling garbage is wiser than just throwing it in a

ditch

> > somewhere. Rather than spit chewing gum on the pavement, wisdom

> > tells me that I ought to throw it in the garbage instead.

Wisdom

> > tells me what is the best and least harmful course of action to

> > follow. The most loving way is always the wisest. It takes

> > conscientiousness to walk lightly upon Mother Earth. It's wiser

> and

> > less harmful to eat vegetarian style than to eat meat. It's not

> > eating meat that I object to as much as the eating meat from

> animals

> > that have been cruelly tortured. The Jews have Seven Rules for

> > Pagans or Gentiles to adhere to, one of them is the prohibition

of

> > eating meat that has been severed from a living animal. In

other

> > words, not diet but compassion is the rule. Wisdom and

> compassion.

> > For oneself. For others. For everything. If it doesn't harm,

go

> > ahead and do whatever your heart desires. That's freedom.

That's

> > love. Wisdom and compassion. I see no fear in it at all, as

you

> > were trying to say. But you make a valid point which applies to

> > nature's cycle of birth and death and how life feeds on life.

As

> > Nis said, we're food. Lol. At least our bodies are. But we're

> not

> > our bodies. Yada, yada, yada.

> >

> > Remember Wisdom in all that we do. Honor and respect Sophia as

> much

> > as we pay homage to the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer Shiva.

> > Sophia and Shiva together are One and we are One with these

> > anthropomorphizations.

> >

> > Your friendly Witch,

> >

> > " Silver "

> >

> Hi Silver...Is this the Anthropomorphic Principle that we hear

so

> much of these days in the Physics(or is that Psycic?) news of how

the

> universe is not too cold, not too hot but JUST RIGHT for all us

> little humans?

> :-) ( i learnt that one today).........bob

>

***********

I don't know. Maybe I used the wrong long word. But whatever I

mean, this Bear of Little Brain just knows that if it's too cold I

can get a blanket and if it's too hot I can go for a swim in the

lake. Wisdom is knowing what to do to make things more comfortable

for me and everyone around me or aleast not more uncomfortable than

it sometimes already is.

" Silver "

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

Time,

> > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > >

> > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat

and

> > drank milk

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

cheetah

> > > lunges at it's

> > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws

on

> > the

> > > throat of

> > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

> > this

> > > be seen for

> > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

> > that

> > > arises from

> > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> peregrine

> > > falcon dives at

> > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching

it's

> > > trajectory for

> > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> breathless

> > at

> > > God's

> > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> > >

> > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

> > things. If

> > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees

what

> > is. I cannot,

> > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

> however,

> > my failing

> > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

> > essence.

> > >

> > > Phil

> >

> > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

divinity

> in

> > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

> learn...

> >

> > Len

>

> ***************

>

> When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> True?

>

> len

>

> ;-)

>

> " Silver "

It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

It´s up to them.

It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

Len

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > >

> > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat

> and

> > > drank milk

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

> cheetah

> > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's

jaws

> on

> > > the

> > > > throat of

> > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or

can

> > > this

> > > > be seen for

> > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our

fear

> > > that

> > > > arises from

> > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> > peregrine

> > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching

> it's

> > > > trajectory for

> > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> > breathless

> > > at

> > > > God's

> > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> > > >

> > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in

all

> > > things. If

> > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees

> what

> > > is. I cannot,

> > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

> > however,

> > > my failing

> > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with

it's

> > > essence.

> > > >

> > > > Phil

> > >

> > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> divinity

> > in

> > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

> > learn...

> > >

> > > Len

> >

> > ***************

> >

> > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > True?

> >

> > len

> >

> > ;-)

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

> It´s up to them.

> It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

>

> Len

>

***********

Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to avoid

adding to it?

Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this even the

right question?

" Silver "

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> <lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

> > Time,

> > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate

meat

> > and

> > > > drank milk

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

> > cheetah

> > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's

> jaws

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > throat of

> > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or

> can

> > > > this

> > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our

> fear

> > > > that

> > > > > arises from

> > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> > > peregrine

> > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

matching

> > it's

> > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> > > breathless

> > > > at

> > > > > God's

> > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you

feel?

> > > > >

> > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > >

> > > > > Len

> > > > >

> > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in

> all

> > > > things. If

> > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly

sees

> > what

> > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

> > > however,

> > > > my failing

> > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with

> it's

> > > > essence.

> > > > >

> > > > > Phil

> > > >

> > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> > divinity

> > > in

> > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

> > > learn...

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > >

> > > ***************

> > >

> > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > True?

> > >

> > > len

> > >

> > > ;-)

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> >

> > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

> > It´s up to them.

> > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> ***********

>

> Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to avoid

> adding to it?

>

> Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

>

> What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this even

the

> right question?

>

> " Silver "

Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious suffering.

Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering, and when

the image is gone, suffering goes too.

Len

March 27, 2006

In a message dated 3/27/2006 7:18:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:11:22 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

>

> > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> lunges at it's

> > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on

the

> throat of

> > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

this

> be seen for

> > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

that

> arises from

> > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the peregrine

> falcon dives at

> > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching it's

> trajectory for

> > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe, breathless

at

> God's

> > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

>

> And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

>

> Len

>

> If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

things. If

> one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees what

is. I cannot,

> and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is, however,

my failing

> and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

essence.

>

> Phil

Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps, divinity in

SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to learn...

Len

Maybe we all have a lot to unlearn?

Phil

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

> > > Time,

> > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate

> meat

> > > and

> > > > > drank milk

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

> > > cheetah

> > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's

> > jaws

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done,

or

> > can

> > > > > this

> > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our

> > fear

> > > > > that

> > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> > > > peregrine

> > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> matching

> > > it's

> > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> > > > breathless

> > > > > at

> > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you

> feel?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Len

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen

in

> > all

> > > > > things. If

> > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly

> sees

> > > what

> > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This

is,

> > > > however,

> > > > > my failing

> > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with

> > it's

> > > > > essence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> > > divinity

> > > > in

> > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot

to

> > > > learn...

> > > > >

> > > > > Len

> > > >

> > > > ***************

> > > >

> > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > True?

> > > >

> > > > len

> > > >

> > > > ;-)

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

unreal.

> > > It´s up to them.

> > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > ***********

> >

> > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to

avoid

> > adding to it?

> >

> > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

> >

> > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this even

> the

> > right question?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious suffering.

> Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering, and

when

> the image is gone, suffering goes too.

>

> Len\

*******

And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I think.

" Silver "

>

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> <lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

<silver-

> > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

Standard

> > > > Time,

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate

> > meat

> > > > and

> > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When

the

> > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes

it's

> > > jaws

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been

done,

> or

> > > can

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond

our

> > > fear

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When

the

> > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> > matching

> > > > it's

> > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in

awe,

> > > > > breathless

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you

> > feel?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be

seen

> in

> > > all

> > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly

> > sees

> > > > what

> > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This

> is,

> > > > > however,

> > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things

with

> > > it's

> > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> > > > divinity

> > > > > in

> > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a

lot

> to

> > > > > learn...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Len

> > > > >

> > > > > ***************

> > > > >

> > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > True?

> > > > >

> > > > > len

> > > > >

> > > > > ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > " Silver "

> > > >

> > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

> unreal.

> > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > >

> > > ***********

> > >

> > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to

> avoid

> > > adding to it?

> > >

> > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

> > >

> > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this

even

> > the

> > > right question?

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> >

> > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

suffering.

> > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering, and

> when

> > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> >

> > Len\

>

> *******

>

> And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I think.

>

> " Silver "

And what´s the key to forgiveness?

Len

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> <silver-

> > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

> Standard

> > > > > Time,

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi

ate

> > > meat

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When

> the

> > > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes

> it's

> > > > jaws

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been

> done,

> > or

> > > > can

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond

> our

> > > > fear

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When

> the

> > > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> > > matching

> > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in

> awe,

> > > > > > breathless

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that

you

> > > feel?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be

> seen

> > in

> > > > all

> > > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one

truly

> > > sees

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse.

This

> > is,

> > > > > > however,

> > > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things

> with

> > > > it's

> > > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration

camps,

> > > > > divinity

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a

> lot

> > to

> > > > > > learn...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Len

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ***************

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > > True?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > len

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > >

> > > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

> > unreal.

> > > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > > >

> > > > > Len

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ***********

> > > >

> > > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> > > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to

> > avoid

> > > > adding to it?

> > > >

> > > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

> > > >

> > > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this

> even

> > > the

> > > > right question?

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> > > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

> suffering.

> > > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering,

and

> > when

> > > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> > >

> > > Len\

> >

> > *******

> >

> > And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> > conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I

think.

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> And what´s the key to forgiveness?

>

> Len

>

***********

Nothing more or less than Understanding? Maybe?

" Silver "

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> <lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

<silver-

> > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> > <silver-

> > > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

> > Standard

> > > > > > Time,

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi

> ate

> > > > meat

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@

wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear.

When

> > the

> > > > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and

closes

> > it's

> > > > > jaws

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been

> > done,

> > > or

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just

beyond

> > our

> > > > > fear

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate?

When

> > the

> > > > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> > > > matching

> > > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in

> > awe,

> > > > > > > breathless

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that

> you

> > > > feel?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be

> > seen

> > > in

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one

> truly

> > > > sees

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse.

> This

> > > is,

> > > > > > > however,

> > > > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all

things

> > with

> > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration

> camps,

> > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got

a

> > lot

> > > to

> > > > > > > learn...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ***************

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > > > True?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ;-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others

as

> > > unreal.

> > > > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering,

through

> > > > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Len

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ***********

> > > > >

> > > > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me?

In

> > > > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How

to

> > > avoid

> > > > > adding to it?

> > > > >

> > > > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already

IS?

> > > > >

> > > > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is

this

> > even

> > > > the

> > > > > right question?

> > > > >

> > > > > " Silver "

> > > >

> > > > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > > > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> > > > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > > > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

> > suffering.

> > > > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering,

> and

> > > when

> > > > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> > > >

> > > > Len\

> > >

> > > *******

> > >

> > > And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> > > conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I

> think.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> >

> > And what´s the key to forgiveness?

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> ***********

>

> Nothing more or less than Understanding? Maybe?

>

> " Silver "

Understanding of the nature of suffering in each one of us.

Len

March 27, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> <silver-

> > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> > > <silver-

> > > > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

> > > Standard

> > > > > > > Time,

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas

Ghandi

> > ate

> > > > > meat

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear.

> When

> > > the

> > > > > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and

> closes

> > > it's

> > > > > > jaws

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm

been

> > > done,

> > > > or

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just

> beyond

> > > our

> > > > > > fear

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate?

> When

> > > the

> > > > > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200

mph,

> > > > > matching

> > > > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand

in

> > > awe,

> > > > > > > > breathless

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow

that

> > you

> > > > > feel?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can

be

> > > seen

> > > > in

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one

> > truly

> > > > > sees

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse.

> > This

> > > > is,

> > > > > > > > however,

> > > > > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all

> things

> > > with

> > > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration

> > camps,

> > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve

got

> a

> > > lot

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > learn...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ***************

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > > > > True?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > len

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others

> as

> > > > unreal.

> > > > > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering,

> through

> > > > > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ***********

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In

me?

> In

> > > > > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How

> to

> > > > avoid

> > > > > > adding to it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what

already

> IS?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is

> this

> > > even

> > > > > the

> > > > > > right question?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > >

> > > > > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > > > > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea

of)

> > > > > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > > > > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

> > > suffering.

> > > > > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of

suffering,

> > and

> > > > when

> > > > > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Len\

> > > >

> > > > *******

> > > >

> > > > And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> > > > conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I

> > think.

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > And what´s the key to forgiveness?

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > ***********

> >

> > Nothing more or less than Understanding? Maybe?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> Understanding of the nature of suffering in each one of us.

>

> Len

>

*********

Yes.

" Silver "

March 27, 2006

In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:15:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:43:25 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

Time,

> > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > >

> > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat

and

> > drank milk

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

cheetah

> > > lunges at it's

> > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws

on

> > the

> > > throat of

> > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

> > this

> > > be seen for

> > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

> > that

> > > arises from

> > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> peregrine

> > > falcon dives at

> > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching

it's

> > > trajectory for

> > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> breathless

> > at

> > > God's

> > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> > >

> > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

> > things. If

> > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees

what

> > is. I cannot,

> > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

> however,

> > my failing

> > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

> > essence.

> > >

> > > Phil

> >

> > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

divinity

> in

> > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

> learn...

> >

> > Len

>

> ***************

>

> When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> True?

>

> len

>

> ;-)

>

> " Silver "

It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

It´s up to them.

It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

Len

There is necessary suffering?

Phil

March 27, 2006

In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:15:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:39:22 -0000

" s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

> > > Time,

> > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate

> meat

> > > and

> > > > > drank milk

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

> > > cheetah

> > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's

> > jaws

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done,

or

> > can

> > > > > this

> > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our

> > fear

> > > > > that

> > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> > > > peregrine

> > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> matching

> > > it's

> > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> > > > breathless

> > > > > at

> > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you

> feel?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Len

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen

in

> > all

> > > > > things. If

> > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly

> sees

> > > what

> > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This

is,

> > > > however,

> > > > > my failing

> > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with

> > it's

> > > > > essence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> > > divinity

> > > > in

> > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot

to

> > > > learn...

> > > > >

> > > > > Len

> > > >

> > > > ***************

> > > >

> > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > True?

> > > >

> > > > len

> > > >

> > > > ;-)

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

unreal.

> > > It´s up to them.

> > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > ***********

> >

> > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to

avoid

> > adding to it?

> >

> > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

> >

> > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this even

> the

> > right question?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious suffering.

> Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering, and

when

> the image is gone, suffering goes too.

>

> Len\

*******

And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I think.

" Silver "

Forgiveness is the key to the screen door. It presupposes a judgment has

been made, and it's simply the release of anger created by the judgment. If

judgment is no longer made, forgiveness is no longer necessary.

The root of suffering is resistance, and it's this resistance that's

surrendered. Surrender is never a conscious choice. Acceptance comes about

through

greater understanding which leads to the release of attachment. Therefore,

understanding is the key to the front door.

Phil

March 27, 2006

In a message dated 3/27/2006 6:39:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisa

rgadatta writes:

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:44:29 -0000

" s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> <silver-

> > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

> > > <silver-

> > > > > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > > > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

> > > Standard

> > > > > > > Time,

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas

Ghandi

> > ate

> > > > > meat

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear.

> When

> > > the

> > > > > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and

> closes

> > > it's

> > > > > > jaws

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm

been

> > > done,

> > > > or

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just

> beyond

> > > our

> > > > > > fear

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate?

> When

> > > the

> > > > > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200

mph,

> > > > > matching

> > > > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand

in

> > > awe,

> > > > > > > > breathless

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow

that

> > you

> > > > > feel?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can

be

> > > seen

> > > > in

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one

> > truly

> > > > > sees

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse.

> > This

> > > > is,

> > > > > > > > however,

> > > > > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all

> things

> > > with

> > > > > > it's

> > > > > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration

> > camps,

> > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve

got

> a

> > > lot

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > learn...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ***************

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > > > > True?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > len

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others

> as

> > > > unreal.

> > > > > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering,

> through

> > > > > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ***********

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In

me?

> In

> > > > > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How

> to

> > > > avoid

> > > > > > adding to it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what

already

> IS?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is

> this

> > > even

> > > > > the

> > > > > > right question?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Silver "

> > > > >

> > > > > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > > > > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea

of)

> > > > > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > > > > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

> > > suffering.

> > > > > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of

suffering,

> > and

> > > > when

> > > > > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Len\

> > > >

> > > > *******

> > > >

> > > > And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> > > > conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I

> > think.

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > >

> > > And what´s the key to forgiveness?

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > ***********

> >

> > Nothing more or less than Understanding? Maybe?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> Understanding of the nature of suffering in each one of us.

>

> Len

>

*********

Yes.

" Silver "

Yes.

Phil

March 28, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:15:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:39:22 -0000

> " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> <lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 "

<silver-

> > > > 1069@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific

Standard

> > > > Time,

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate

> > meat

> > > > and

> > > > > > drank milk

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When

the

> > > > cheetah

> > > > > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes

it's

> > > jaws

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > throat of

> > > > > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been

done,

> or

> > > can

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > be seen for

> > > > > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond

our

> > > fear

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > arises from

> > > > > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When

the

> > > > > peregrine

> > > > > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph,

> > matching

> > > > it's

> > > > > > > trajectory for

> > > > > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in

awe,

> > > > > breathless

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that

you

> > feel?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Len

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be

seen

> in

> > > all

> > > > > > things. If

> > > > > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly

> > sees

> > > > what

> > > > > > is. I cannot,

> > > > > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This

> is,

> > > > > however,

> > > > > > my failing

> > > > > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things

with

> > > it's

> > > > > > essence.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Phil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> > > > divinity

> > > > > in

> > > > > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a

lot

> to

> > > > > learn...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Len

> > > > >

> > > > > ***************

> > > > >

> > > > > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > > > > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > > > > True?

> > > > >

> > > > > len

> > > > >

> > > > > ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > " Silver "

> > > >

> > > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

> unreal.

> > > > It´s up to them.

> > > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > >

> > > ***********

> > >

> > > Suffering Is. It's very real. See it? In you? In me? In

> > > others? What to do about it? How to alleviate it? How to

> avoid

> > > adding to it?

> > >

> > > Ah. But wait. Can we do anything to add to what already IS?

> > >

> > > What the ROOT of Suffering? What causes it to be? Is this

even

> > the

> > > right question?

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> >

> > Belief in the image is the root of suffering.

> > The belief in this image makes us escape from (the idea of)

> > suffering, which perpetuates suffering.

> > The way to alleviate (end) the suffering, is conscious

suffering.

> > Conscious suffering makes an end to the image of suffering, and

> when

> > the image is gone, suffering goes too.

> >

> > Len\

>

> *******

>

> And THAT, my friend, is what we're here for. To become

> conscientious and compassionate. Forgiveness is the Key, I think.

>

> " Silver "

>

> Forgiveness is the key to the screen door. It presupposes a

judgment has

> been made, and it's simply the release of anger created by the

judgment. If

> judgment is no longer made, forgiveness is no longer necessary.

>

> The root of suffering is resistance, and it's this resistance

that's

> surrendered. Surrender is never a conscious choice. Acceptance

comes about through

> greater understanding which leads to the release of attachment.

Therefore,

> understanding is the key to the front door.

>

> Phil

>

> Jesus couln't have said it better Phil........bob

>

March 28, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/27/2006 7:18:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:11:22 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

> drank milk

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the cheetah

> > lunges at it's

> > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's jaws on

> the

> > throat of

> > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or can

> this

> > be seen for

> > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our fear

> that

> > arises from

> > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

peregrine

> > falcon dives at

> > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching

it's

> > trajectory for

> > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

breathless

> at

> > God's

> > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> >

> > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> >

> > Len

> >

> > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in all

> things. If

> > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees what

> is. I cannot,

> > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

however,

> my failing

> > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with it's

> essence.

> >

> > Phil

>

> Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps, divinity

in

> SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

learn...

>

> Len

>

> Maybe we all have a lot to unlearn?

>

> Phil

It's actually the same.

Len

March 28, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:15:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:43:25 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 3/26/2006 5:44:36 AM Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > > >

> > > > Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:48 -0000

> > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat

> and

> > > drank milk

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > The concept of harm is rooted in human fear. When the

> cheetah

> > > > lunges at it's

> > > > > prey at the staggering speed of 70mph and closes it's

jaws

> on

> > > the

> > > > throat of

> > > > > his prey ten times his own size, has harm been done, or

can

> > > this

> > > > be seen for

> > > > > the beauty and magnificence that it is just beyond our

fear

> > > that

> > > > arises from

> > > > > far too much contemplation on our own fate? When the

> > peregrine

> > > > falcon dives at

> > > > > a songbird at the astounding speed of 200 mph, matching

> it's

> > > > trajectory for

> > > > > a precise mid-air death blow, can you stand in awe,

> > breathless

> > > at

> > > > God's

> > > > > wonder, or is it only your own death blow that you feel?

> > > >

> > > > And does it also apply to a slaughter-house?

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > > > If divinity is in all things, then divinity can be seen in

all

> > > things. If

> > > > one can see beauty in a slaughterhouse, then one truly sees

> what

> > > is. I cannot,

> > > > and so I choose not to work in a slaughterhouse. This is,

> > however,

> > > my failing

> > > > and not the failure of divinity to endow all things with

it's

> > > essence.

> > > >

> > > > Phil

> > >

> > > Yeaah, divinity in war, divinity in concentration camps,

> divinity

> > in

> > > SM, divinity in lies, divinity in cruelty. I´ve got a lot to

> > learn...

> > >

> > > Len

> >

> > ***************

> >

> > When you " recognize it as unreal " , it´s gone.

> > If it isn´t gone you didn´t recognize it as unreal.

> > True?

> >

> > len

> >

> > ;-)

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

> It´s up to them.

> It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

>

> Len

>

> There is necessary suffering?

>

> Phil

I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course not

necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens anyway.

This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really unavoidable and

not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to understand that

it isn't necessary ;-)

Len

March 28, 2006

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:25:49 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

> It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as unreal.

> It´s up to them.

> It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

>

> Len

>

> There is necessary suffering?

>

> Phil

I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course not

necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens anyway.

This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really unavoidable and

not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to understand that

it isn't necessary ;-)

Len

True, suffering seems necessary in order to understand that suffering isn't

necessary, but of course it isn't.

One does not cause suffering for another. One may do horrific things to the

other, but the suffering must originate within the other. Also, these are not

volitional humans creating experience. Experience is created in a single

consciousness according to dynamics of perception seemingly ocurring within the

human. If 'you' do something horrific to 'me', 'you' did not cause it, 'I'

did. (I can hear Larry already.

Phil

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:25:49 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

unreal.

> > It´s up to them.

> > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> >

> > Len

> >

> > There is necessary suffering?

> >

> > Phil

>

> I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

> however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

> The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course

not

> necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens anyway.

> This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really unavoidable

and

> not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

> After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to understand

that

> it isn't necessary ;-)

>

> Len

> True, suffering seems necessary in order to understand that

suffering isn't

> necessary, but of course it isn't.

>

> One does not cause suffering for another. One may do horrific

things to the

> other, but the suffering must originate within the other.

Certainly. But the intention to hurt is yours. This is your

responsibility. This intention to hurt originates from your

suffering.

> Also, these are not

> volitional humans creating experience.

Observe yourself and see that you´re full of volition.

All conflict is caused by volition. When there is no volition, there

is no conflict.

Len

> Experience is created in a single

> consciousness according to dynamics of perception seemingly

ocurring within the

> human. If 'you' do something horrific to 'me', 'you' did not cause

it, 'I'

> did. (I can hear Larry already.

>

> Phil

>

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