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Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

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He spent his whole life having crowds of people going round and round, always

in a circle, always going nowhere. Read my writing after his comments.

 

In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,

sankarraman_gamesam writes:

> From

> Sankarraman

> May I quote the explosive, original message of

> J.Krishnamurthy.

> Sankarraman

> JKrishnamurti.org - Daily Quote ===

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind. And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you will find, if you

> have gone that far, that there is a movement of the unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that cannot be put into

> words—then you will find that there is a movement which is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve. Such a mind knows what is creation—not

> the creation of the painter, the poet, the verbalizer; but that

> creation which has no motive, which has no expression. That creation

> is love and death.

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not lead you

> anywhere. Meditation is that process of laying the foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing about— naturally, without any

> effort—that state of stillness. And only then is there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.

>

> The Book of Life - December 28

> _____________

 

 

> Larry: He spent his whole life having crowds of people going round and

> round, always in a circle, always going nowhere. The guru that was not a guru,

> the teacher that was not a teacher, the spiritual leader that never accepted

> his leadership, yet he would never stop talking, talking talking.

>

> In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> sankarraman_gamesam writes:

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind. And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you will find, if you

> have gone that far,

>

> (That’s pretty far, but it’s not far enough, and it never is.)

>

> that there is a movement of the unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that cannot be put into

> Words

>

> (so in this stillness, that is free from the known, something that moves,

> yet cannot be described)

>

> —then you will find that there is a movement which is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve.

>

> (so in this absolute stillness,’ " there is a movement " which is so " immense "

> that without this meditation you couldn’t see it, find it or know it was

> there. " Beyond the beyond, the beyond the beyond….)

>

> Such a mind knows what is creation

>

> (this is not the usual mind, it is not the still mind, it is the immense

> mind that still knows something, that is self-aware and has the thought, of

> " knowing what is creation "

>

 

—not

>

> the creation of the painter,

>

> (of course, a painter is not a verbalizer, usually

>

> the poet, the verbalizer;

>

> but that creation which has no motive, which has no expression. That

> creation is love and death.

>

> (so we have creation which has not expression, a contradiction)

> (or, it has an expression which is love and death) )(The idea that this

> creation of the immense mind is love and death has no meaning, it is just

words)

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not lead you

> anywhere.

>

> (it sounds like a man must understand himself before he meditates, he doesn’

> t indicate that meditation itself is a path to understanding)

>

> Meditation is that process of laying the foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing about— naturally, without any

> effort—that state of stillness.

>

> (if meditation can bring about a state of stillness, that is still

> not far enough until you realize that " creation is love and death. "

> So he tells you in advance what you will realize if you get to the final

> stage.)(And only then is there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.)

>

> (and here, finally is the mind beyond the mind, the ultimate mind)

> (And there is the question, never asked, do you know from where you speak.

> He has spent a lifetime talking about something " beyond time, beyond

> experience, and beyond knowing " yet he endlessly talks about the unspeakable,

the

> unknowable.)

>

> (I see J. (jerk) Krishnamurti, his real name was Robert, as one of those who

> feed off the gullible and holding out carrots that could never be eaten.

> Dangling, dangling, always just out of reach, the great knowledge, the great

> achievement that nobody could ever reach.)

>

>

 

 

 

 

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Maybe the problem is that we keep getting caught into

time. There is the fall into stillness, into one`s

true simplicity, oneness,then why o why do I get back

into the web of time ??

This is a question.

why do I keep searching for what is?

Patricia

--- epston a écrit :

 

 

 

He spent his whole life having crowds of people going

round and round, always

in a circle, always going nowhere. Read my writing

after his comments.

 

In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific

Standard Time,

sankarraman_gamesam writes:

> From

> Sankarraman

> May I quote the explosive, original message of

> J.Krishnamurthy.

> Sankarraman

> JKrishnamurti.org - Daily Quote ===

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind.

And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without

any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you

will find, if you

> have gone that far, that there is a movement of the

unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that

cannot be put into

> words—then you will find that there is a movement

which is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in

that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to

experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve. Such a mind knows

what is creation—not

> the creation of the painter, the poet, the

verbalizer; but that

> creation which has no motive, which has no

expression. That creation

> is love and death.

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is

the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand

himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much

you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own

projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not

lead you

> anywhere. Meditation is that process of laying the

foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing about—

naturally, without any

> effort—that state of stillness. And only then is

there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.

>

> The Book of Life - December 28

> _____________

 

 

> Larry: He spent his whole life having crowds of

people going round and

> round, always in a circle, always going nowhere. The

guru that was not a guru,

> the teacher that was not a teacher, the spiritual

leader that never accepted

> his leadership, yet he would never stop talking,

talking talking.

>

> In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific

Standard Time,

> sankarraman_gamesam writes:

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind.

And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without

any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you

will find, if you

> have gone that far,

>

> (That’s pretty far, but it’s not far enough, and

it never is.)

>

> that there is a movement of the unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that

cannot be put into

> Words

>

> (so in this stillness, that is free from the known,

something that moves,

> yet cannot be described)

>

> —then you will find that there is a movement which

is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in

that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to

experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve.

>

> (so in this absolute stillness,’ " there is a

movement " which is so " immense "

> that without this meditation you couldn’t see it,

find it or know it was

> there. " Beyond the beyond, the beyond the

beyond….)

>

> Such a mind knows what is creation

>

> (this is not the usual mind, it is not the still

mind, it is the immense

> mind that still knows something, that is self-aware

and has the thought, of

> " knowing what is creation "

>

 

—not

>

> the creation of the painter,

>

> (of course, a painter is not a verbalizer, usually

>

> the poet, the verbalizer;

>

> but that creation which has no motive, which has no

expression. That

> creation is love and death.

>

> (so we have creation which has not expression, a

contradiction)

> (or, it has an expression which is love and death)

)(The idea that this

> creation of the immense mind is love and death has

no meaning, it is just words)

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is

the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand

himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much

you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own

projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not

lead you

> anywhere.

>

> (it sounds like a man must understand himself before

he meditates, he doesn’

> t indicate that meditation itself is a path to

understanding)

>

> Meditation is that process of laying the foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing about—

naturally, without any

> effort—that state of stillness.

>

> (if meditation can bring about a state of stillness,

that is still

> not far enough until you realize that " creation is

love and death. "

> So he tells you in advance what you will realize if

you get to the final

> stage.)(And only then is there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.)

>

> (and here, finally is the mind beyond the mind, the

ultimate mind)

> (And there is the question, never asked, do you know

from where you speak.

> He has spent a lifetime talking about something

" beyond time, beyond

> experience, and beyond knowing " yet he endlessly

talks about the unspeakable, the

> unknowable.)

>

> (I see J. (jerk) Krishnamurti, his real name was

Robert, as one of those who

> feed off the gullible and holding out carrots that

could never be eaten.

> Dangling, dangling, always just out of reach, the

great knowledge, the great

> achievement that nobody could ever reach.)

>

>

 

 

 

 

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you got nothing better to do ;-)

-

OConnor Patricia

Nisargadatta

Thursday, December 29, 2005 6:21 PM

Re: Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

 

 

Maybe the problem is that we keep getting caught into

time. There is the fall into stillness, into one`s

true simplicity, oneness,then why o why do I get back

into the web of time ??

This is a question.

why do I keep searching for what is?

Patricia

--- epston a écrit :

 

 

He spent his whole life having crowds of people going

round and round, always

in a circle, always going nowhere. Read my writing

after his comments.

 

In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific

Standard Time,

sankarraman_gamesam writes:

> From

> Sankarraman

> May I quote the explosive, original message of

> J.Krishnamurthy.

> Sankarraman

> JKrishnamurti.org - Daily Quote ===

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind.

And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without

any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you

will find, if you

> have gone that far, that there is a movement of the

unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that

cannot be put into

> wordsâ€â€then you will find that there is a movement

which is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in

that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to

experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve. Such a mind knows

what is creationâ€â€not

> the creation of the painter, the poet, the

verbalizer; but that

> creation which has no motive, which has no

expression. That creation

> is love and death.

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is

the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand

himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much

you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own

projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not

lead you

> anywhere. Meditation is that process of laying the

foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing aboutâ€â€

naturally, without any

> effortâ€â€that state of stillness. And only then is

there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.

>

> The Book of Life - December 28

> _____________

 

 

> Larry: He spent his whole life having crowds of

people going round and

> round, always in a circle, always going nowhere. The

guru that was not a guru,

> the teacher that was not a teacher, the spiritual

leader that never accepted

> his leadership, yet he would never stop talking,

talking talking.

>

> In a message dated 12/29/2005 7:31:45 AM Pacific

Standard Time,

> sankarraman_gamesam writes:

>

> Lay the Foundation Instantly

>

> A still mind is not seeking experience of any kind.

And if it is not

> seeking and therefore is completely still, without

any movement from

> the past and therefore free from the known, then you

will find, if you

> have gone that far,

>

> (That’s pretty far, but it’s not far enough, and

it never is.)

>

> that there is a movement of the unknown that is

> not recognized, that is not translatable, that

cannot be put into

> Words

>

> (so in this stillness, that is free from the known,

something that moves,

> yet cannot be described)

>

> â€â€then you will find that there is a movement which

is of the

> immense. That movement is of the timeless because in

that there is no

> time, nor is there space, nor something in which to

experience, nor

> something to gain, to achieve.

>

> (so in this absolute stillness,’ " there is a

movement " which is so " immense "

> that without this meditation you couldn’t see it,

find it or know it was

> there. " Beyond the beyond, the beyond the

beyond….)

>

> Such a mind knows what is creation

>

> (this is not the usual mind, it is not the still

mind, it is the immense

> mind that still knows something, that is self-aware

and has the thought, of

> " knowing what is creation "

>

 

â€â€not

>

> the creation of the painter,

>

> (of course, a painter is not a verbalizer, usually

>

> the poet, the verbalizer;

>

> but that creation which has no motive, which has no

expression. That

> creation is love and death.

>

> (so we have creation which has not expression, a

contradiction)

> (or, it has an expression which is love and death)

)(The idea that this

> creation of the immense mind is love and death has

no meaning, it is just words)

>

> This whole thing from the beginning to the end is

the way of

> meditation. A man who would meditate must understand

himself. Without

> knowing yourself, you cannot go far. However much

you may attempt to

> go far, you can go only so far as your own

projection; and your own

> projection is very near, is very close, and does not

lead you

> anywhere.

>

> (it sounds like a man must understand himself before

he meditates, he doesn’

> t indicate that meditation itself is a path to

understanding)

>

> Meditation is that process of laying the foundation

> instantly, immediately, and bringing aboutâ€â€

naturally, without any

> effortâ€â€that state of stillness.

>

> (if meditation can bring about a state of stillness,

that is still

> not far enough until you realize that " creation is

love and death. "

> So he tells you in advance what you will realize if

you get to the final

> stage.)(And only then is there a mind which is

> beyond time, beyond experience, and beyond knowing.)

>

> (and here, finally is the mind beyond the mind, the

ultimate mind)

> (And there is the question, never asked, do you know

from where you speak.

> He has spent a lifetime talking about something

" beyond time, beyond

> experience, and beyond knowing " yet he endlessly

talks about the unspeakable, the

> unknowable.)

>

> (I see J. (jerk) Krishnamurti, his real name was

Robert, as one of those who

> feed off the gullible and holding out carrots that

could never be eaten.

> Dangling, dangling, always just out of reach, the

great knowledge, the great

> achievement that nobody could ever reach.)

>

>

 

 

 

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:38:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

OConnor Patricia <gdtige

Re: Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

 

Maybe the problem is that we keep getting caught into

time. There is the fall into stillness, into one`s

true simplicity, oneness,then why o why do I get back

into the web of time ??

This is a question.

why do I keep searching for what is?

Patricia

 

 

 

Don't you find yourself starting to disappear in that stillness, I mean the

self you've always identified with? The mind notices this very quickly,

unconsciously, and jumps up to make up a thought about that stillness to keep

self

intact.....and there goes the stillness.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:38:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> OConnor Patricia <gdtige>

> Re: Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

>

> Maybe the problem is that we keep getting caught into

> time. There is the fall into stillness, into one`s

> true simplicity, oneness,then why o why do I get back

> into the web of time ??

> This is a question.

> why do I keep searching for what is?

> Patricia

>

 

dear one,

to see it as " we get caught into the web time " is an interpretation

of the mind, all based on the belief to be something different that

time, an external eternal observer, for instance.

time happens inside of you, as everything else happens, so you have

never been moved away from this moment. what you feel as a

resistance, a friction between differnt states, is just the ego

melting into reality, into love. until you will need this sense of

existing as a separate one, defending your ego, your believes and

thoughts, you are bound to experience that friction, you are bound to

question and to look for an answer. welcome this resistance, maybe

the time is coming to let it go completely and enjoy life as it is, a

mistery, a falling into noone's arms...

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In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:52:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

" bigwaaba " <bigwaaba

Re: Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

 

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:38:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> OConnor Patricia <gdtige>

> Re: Krishnamurti as Fake Guru

>

> Maybe the problem is that we keep getting caught into

> time. There is the fall into stillness, into one`s

> true simplicity, oneness,then why o why do I get back

> into the web of time ??

> This is a question.

> why do I keep searching for what is?

> Patricia

>

 

dear one,

to see it as " we get caught into the web time " is an interpretation

of the mind, all based on the belief to be something different that

time, an external eternal observer, for instance.

time happens inside of you, as everything else happens, so you have

never been moved away from this moment. what you feel as a

resistance, a friction between differnt states, is just the ego

melting into reality, into love. until you will need this sense of

existing as a separate one, defending your ego, your believes and

thoughts, you are bound to experience that friction, you are bound to

question and to look for an answer. welcome this resistance, maybe

the time is coming to let it go completely and enjoy life as it is, a

mistery, a falling into noone's arms...

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good point. The way to overcome resistance is to welcome it.

Resistance will endure everything except an embrace. This is fatal.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

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Guest Dr Rejban

If you understand Krishnamurti his teachings will clear out all the old rubbish in your mind. Nowadays the only contact I have with India is the "I call from the Windows support-team, your computer is infected and it can only be solved by you giving me your bank account number". So India, be proud of Jiddu Krishnamurti, he was in my mind searching for the roots of the age old wisdom of the Veda. Brgds Dr Rejban, Stockholm, Sweden.

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Krishnamurti is/was OK. He could have gone along with being set up as the avatar of the age, but he resisted.

He was more of a humanist than a religious person. I have no problem with him.... but I would not "follow" him, but at least in the West he did not encourage this.

However, look at the legion of "gurus" and "masters" who believe themselves to be god's gift to mankind.. but are not; Isha, Wisha, Misha, Thisanand, Thatanand, Jai Satchitanand, Maharaja Param Sant Shagga Ji, SayaBaba the second... I mean, the list is endless... you can probably guess from the mock titles who I'm referring to....

in some of the Upanishads, Rig Veda etc. there are techniques, wisdom and guidance to see through all that bullshit, if people can not just latch on to each word and syllable and apply the natural god-given common sense to the lines and see everything in context of time, delivery and culture... need I say more? RItes and rituals too are one thing, but not everything 

My impression of having spent many years in India, is that "spiritual EGO" is abundant, and ego is ego by whatever name you might call it.. and that in turn is a great barrier to the realisation of Bramhan. Yet, India is definitely host to superior grade wisdom, but one must have the eyes to see.

Thank you for your time if you read this.. and your comments are very welcome

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