Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > al. Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your idea which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right and wrong - struggle and conflict. If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct and it all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with emptiness if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " are? Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need to merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* realizes there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They carry on the dream now with a twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would > lessen > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > al. > > Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your idea > which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right and > wrong - struggle and conflict. > > If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct and it > all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with emptiness > if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " are? > Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need to > merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* realizes > there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They carry on > the dream now with a twist. The emptiness I am talking about is hidden behind thoughts and emotions, waiting to be merged with. It is an emptiness that is solid, changeless and which cuts through all thoughts and emotions. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > you want to end your inner misery? then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is fantasy. the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your thought-construct. your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it can only blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of awakening is nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even while killing them, you will shower love on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is fantasy. > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your thought- construct. > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it can only > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of awakening is > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > while killing them, you will shower love on them.>> Let those who have ears, hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is fantasy. > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your thought-construct. > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it can only > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of awakening is > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > while killing them, you will shower love on them. I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is fantasy. > > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your > thought-construct. > > > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it can only > > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of awakening is > > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > > while killing them, you will shower love on them. > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > al. Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would lessen > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > > > > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > > > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is fantasy. > > > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your > > thought-construct. > > > > > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > > > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > > > > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it can only > > > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of awakening is > > > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > > > while killing them, you will shower love on them. > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > al. > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > toombaru I am talking about an emptiness that is not exactly thought. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would > would lessen > > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world > and the > > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with > emptiness > > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > > > > > > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > > > > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is > fantasy. > > > > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your > > > thought-construct. > > > > > > > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > > > > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > > > > > > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it > can only > > > > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of > awakening is > > > > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > > > > while killing them, you will shower love on them. > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > > > toombaru > > I am talking about an emptiness that is not exactly thought. > > al. " Emptiness " exists...only in thought. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would > > would lessen > > > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world > > and the > > > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with > > emptiness > > > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > > > > > > > > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > > > > > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is > > fantasy. > > > > > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your > > > > thought-construct. > > > > > > > > > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > > > > > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > > > > > > > > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it > > can only > > > > > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of > > awakening is > > > > > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > > > > > while killing them, you will shower love on them. > > > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > I am talking about an emptiness that is not exactly thought. > > > > al. " Emptiness " exists...only in thought. > > > toombaru Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > but that can only happen of its own accord as it _has_ to be beyond cause and effect. that is why it is called grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > but that can only happen of its own accord as it _has_ to be beyond > cause and effect. > > that is why it is called grace. Oh......I always wondered why they called it grace. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? toombaru Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? toombaru Faithe: Can there be thought outside of existence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Faithe Arden " <faithe@v...> wrote: > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > toombaru > > Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? > > toombaru > > Faithe: > > Can there be thought outside of existence? > > " Thought " occurs within a physical brain...... Do you suppose that there could exist a brain outside of the concept " existence " ? toombaru > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > toombaru > > Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? > > toombaru > > Faithe: > > Can there be thought outside of existence? > > " Thought " occurs within a physical brain...... Do you suppose that there could exist a brain outside of the concept " existence " ? toombaru Faithe: I question whether your premise is true. Nothing can exist outside of existence. However, existence is not necessarily limited to " physical " existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Faithe Arden " <faithe@v...> wrote: > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > > > toombaru > > > > Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? > > > > toombaru > > > > Faithe: > > > > Can there be thought outside of existence? > > > > > > > " Thought " occurs within a physical brain...... > > Do you suppose that there could exist a brain outside of the concept " existence " ? > > toombaru > > Faithe: > > I question whether your premise is true. > > Nothing can exist outside of existence. However, existence is not necessarily limited to " physical " existence. This is where thought stumbles all over itself. It creates concepts like: " existence " .......... " physical existence " ...... " mental existence " .....and then tries to figure it all out ....using and comparing its own imaginary creations....... ...........and then wonders why it gets a little confused. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > > > toombaru > > > > Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? > > > > toombaru > > > > Faithe: > > > > Can there be thought outside of existence? > > > > > > > " Thought " occurs within a physical brain...... > > Do you suppose that there could exist a brain outside of the concept " existence " ? > > toombaru > > Faithe: > > I question whether your premise is true. > > Nothing can exist outside of existence. However, existence is not necessarily limited to " physical " existence. This is where thought stumbles all over itself. It creates concepts like: " existence " .......... " physical existence " ...... " mental existence " .....and then tries to figure it all out ....using and comparing its own imaginary creations....... ...........and then wonders why it gets a little confused. toombaru Faithe: Thought gets confused????? Thought tries to figure it all out????? Thought creates concepts???? I think you be confused, Toomy....from thoughting too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would > lessen > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > al. > > Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your idea > which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right and > wrong - struggle and conflict. > > If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct and it > all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with emptiness > if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " are? > Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need to > merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* realizes > there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They carry on > the dream now with a twist. ** Yes, that view is pretty popular these days. Just take statements from 'realizers' and realign your thoughts accordingly...voila! It's been called 'the talking school.' It's also been said that the insaitably-determined seeker of truth (as opposed to seekers of power/knowledge, attention, group experience, exotic blisses, a mate, etc.) is the only one who will have a commensurably great realization. Witness the old Chan/Zen tradition.... It's a big topic, but I think it's worth pointing out that it's truth (whatever) that 'decides'--that takes you, in whatever way it does, relatively easy, or kicking and screaming. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would would > > lessen > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world and the > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with emptiness > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > al. > > > > Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your idea > > which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right and > > wrong - struggle and conflict. > > > > If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct and it > > all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with emptiness > > if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " are? > > Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need to > > merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* realizes > > there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They carry on > > the dream now with a twist. > > The emptiness I am talking about is hidden behind thoughts and > emotions, waiting to be merged with. It is an emptiness that is solid, > changeless and which cuts through all thoughts and emotions. > > al. ** It's not waiting, it's not doing anything, it's not behind or beyond anything. It's right here in the midst of all that appears/dissappears, timelessly. It's not hiding, either, but what a great place to hide-- as *total open.* ;=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > > > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would > > > would lessen > > > > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world > > > and the > > > > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with > > > emptiness > > > > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to end your inner misery? > > > > > > > > > > > > then listen. live for others. pray. for others. smile and laugh. to > > > > > > make others happy. all this talk of melting into the world is > > > fantasy. > > > > > > the world is not a thought-construct. atleast not your > > > > > thought-construct. > > > > > > > > > > > > your misery will not be ended by any theory, story, awakening etc. i > > > > > > have seen " awakened " people and i know they are in the muck too. > > > > > > > > > > > > your misery will end when love blossoms in your heart. and it > > > can only > > > > > > blossom in your heart. if it does not blossom all talk of > > > awakening is > > > > > > nonsense. if it blossoms, even in the face of the most wicked, even > > > > > > while killing them, you will shower love on them. > > > > > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > > > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > > > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you think of something that exists outside of thought? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > I am talking about an emptiness that is not exactly thought. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Emptiness " exists...only in thought. > > > > > > toombaru > > > Can you think about " emptiness " ....without thinking about it? > > > > toombaru The emptiness I talk about is like space in that it appears empty yet is not nothing. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > but that can only happen of its own accord as it _has_ to be beyond > cause and effect. > > that is why it is called grace. Causation has only meaning if we chop up the world into bits and pieces. But can any separate object (such as a thought) ever be any real cause in itself? al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would > would > > > lessen > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world > and the > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with > emptiness > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your > idea > > > which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right > and > > > wrong - struggle and conflict. > > > > > > If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct > and it > > > all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with > emptiness > > > if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " > are? > > > Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need > to > > > merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* > realizes > > > there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They > carry on > > > the dream now with a twist. > > > > The emptiness I am talking about is hidden behind thoughts and > > emotions, waiting to be merged with. It is an emptiness that is > solid, > > changeless and which cuts through all thoughts and emotions. > > > > al. > > ** It's not waiting, it's not doing anything, it's not > behind or beyond anything. It's right here in the midst > of all that appears/dissappears, timelessly. > > It's not hiding, either, but what a great place to hide-- > as *total open.* ;=) Yes, waiting is a form of emotion, even a form of suffering. So the one who is waiting is the emotion of waiting itself I suspect. The one who is hiding is also a form of emotion, an outcrop of fear, so that too is a form of suffering. I will 'meditate' further on emptiness to see if there really is such a thing or if I am fooling myself. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > > > > but that can only happen of its own accord as it _has_ to be beyond > > cause and effect. > > > > that is why it is called grace. > > > > Oh......I always wondered why they called it grace. > didn't you have it all sorted ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am talking about the emptiness that cuts through thoughts, that cuts > > > through all theories and forms of conceptualization, but which itself > > > cannot be said to be thoughts or emotions. > > > > > > > but that can only happen of its own accord as it _has_ to be beyond > > cause and effect. > > > > that is why it is called grace. > > Causation has only meaning if we chop up the world into bits and > pieces. But can any separate object (such as a thought) ever be any > real cause in itself? > > al. " The concept " thought " is itself a product of this chopping process. It, as well as all concepts, are not objects. Pseudo objects attempting to figure out pseudo events are doomed to fail. Thought is not the tool needed to figure itself out......and unfortunately it is the only tool it has. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I wrote in another post that melting into the world would > > would > > > > lessen > > > > > inner conflict. But that was probably a wrong idea. The world > > and the > > > > > me are essentially the same thought-construct. Merging with > > emptiness > > > > > would probably be a better way to lessen inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > Sam: There is no such thing as a wrong idea. " wrong " is your > > idea > > > > which perpetuates your belief system - splitting off into right > > and > > > > wrong - struggle and conflict. > > > > > > > > If the world and you are essentially the same thought-construct > > and it > > > > all essentially is emptiness then how can you " merge " with > > emptiness > > > > if you already " are " " it " ? How can you merge with what " you " > > are? > > > > Therein lies your conflict and struggle - this insatiable need > > to > > > > merge and seek into something. The *realized non-seeker* > > realizes > > > > there is nothing to merge into - nothing to seek after. They > > carry on > > > > the dream now with a twist. > > > > > > The emptiness I am talking about is hidden behind thoughts and > > > emotions, waiting to be merged with. It is an emptiness that is > > solid, > > > changeless and which cuts through all thoughts and emotions. > > > > > > al. > > > > ** It's not waiting, it's not doing anything, it's not > > behind or beyond anything. It's right here in the midst > > of all that appears/dissappears, timelessly. > > > > It's not hiding, either, but what a great place to hide-- > > as *total open.* ;=) > > Yes, waiting is a form of emotion, even a form of suffering. So the > one who is waiting is the emotion of waiting itself I suspect. The one > who is hiding is also a form of emotion, an outcrop of fear, so that > too is a form of suffering. > > I will 'meditate' further on emptiness to see if there really is such > a thing or if I am fooling myself. > > al. The self cannot fool itself..... It is the fooling. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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