If you meet a sage on the road, kill him / AL

[Guest guest]

Hey Anders,

 

What book are you reading at the moment which is representing your

latest thoughts ? Reading your posts over a longer period is like

moving together with you through your book store.

 

Werner

 

 

Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

<anders_lindman> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi Anders,

> >

> > Another definition of enligtenment:

> >

> > " Enlightenment is already here, but you are thinking it is not

here

> > but you are here. Without this nonsense of " I am here "

enlightenment

> > would not be veiled but obvious " .

> >

> > Werner

>

> Infinite love penetrating infinite darkness. That's not an easy

ride,

> but the winner is always love. Darkness cannot darken out light,

while

> light can outshine darkness. There's your clue.

>

> /AL

>

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> > <anders_lindman> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider "

> > > <laughterx8@h...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> > > > <anders_lindman> wrote:

> > > > > The phrase " killing thought " is in my view not a good

> > description

> > > > of

> > > > > what must happen for a person to become enlightened. It's

the

> > > > > separate-creating process that must be healed by an act of

> > > > embracing

> > > > > the unknown for enlightenment to dawn.

> > > > >

> > > > > /AL

> > > > --------

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > >

> > > > Good luck to you finding that in a non-dual

religion/forum/group.

> > > >

> > > > The method of most non-dualists (see countless posts on this

> > board)

> > > > is to focus on the separate by insisting that they are not

real.

> > > >

> > > > It engages in a " separate-creating process " by it's very act.

> > > >

> > > > There is not so much of an embracing but rather a pre-

occupation

> > > > of " pushing " ideas away that do not fit their concept of " non-

> > > > dualism " . This is why it doesn't surprise me that your past

> > > > statements in posts consisted of a need to reject and push

> > away/non-

> > > > acceptance.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > It's all fine, I mean all roads lead to your destination.

> > > >

> > > > There are many roads to lead to your goal. Non-dualism is one

> > > > of the hardest roads simply because people hide behind cloaks

of

> > > > notions that almost make it impossible for them to question.

> > > > How can you ever question something that " is not " .

> > > >

> > > > And so the merry-go-round goes round and round. It just

sounds so

> > > > fabulous and enlightened though.

> > > > And so the banging of the head against the illusory wall

> > > > continues.

> > > > Same old wall, different name.

> > > >

> > > > If enlightenment is your goal it will eventually work for you

> > > > though. Of that you can be certain regardless of what wall

you use

> > > > to bang your head against.

> > > >

> > > > But the hardest part of your quest may be to define what you

mean

> > by

> > > > enlightened? Otherwise you may be searching for something

that you

> > > > already have. Or, you may not even recognize it once you

reach

> > it.

> > > >

> > > > ~G.

> > > > ----

> > >

> > > My idea of enlightenment is to be conflictless, totally

> > conflictless.

> > > That does not mean to never become angry, or not to have

different

> > > opinions of things, but rather a state of true clarity and

peace, to

> > > really feel fearless (even when one is being afraid :-). To be

able

> > to

> > > be angry without any negative feeling. To have anxiety but not

feel

> > it

> > > as a burden. To have a body and mind that is light, almost as if

> > > defying gravity.

> > >

> > > /AL

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote:

>

> Hey Anders,

>

> What book are you reading at the moment which is representing your

> latest thoughts ? Reading your posts over a longer period is like

> moving together with you through your book store.

>

> Werner

 

I was looking at the book " The Perennial Philosophy " by Aldous Huxley

in a book store today. I thought about buying it, but then changed my

mind, thinking to myself: " No word descriptions will ever actually be

what they are about " - sort of: the menu is not the dinner kind of thing.

 

/AL

 

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> <anders_lindman> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Anders,

> > >

> > > Another definition of enligtenment:

> > >

> > > " Enlightenment is already here, but you are thinking it is not

> here

> > > but you are here. Without this nonsense of " I am here "

> enlightenment

> > > would not be veiled but obvious " .

> > >

> > > Werner

> >

> > Infinite love penetrating infinite darkness. That's not an easy

> ride,

> > but the winner is always love. Darkness cannot darken out light,

> while

> > light can outshine darkness. There's your clue.

> >

> > /AL

> >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> > > <anders_lindman> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider "

> > > > <laughterx8@h...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote:

> > > > > > The phrase " killing thought " is in my view not a good

> > > description

> > > > > of

> > > > > > what must happen for a person to become enlightened. It's

> the

> > > > > > separate-creating process that must be healed by an act of

> > > > > embracing

> > > > > > the unknown for enlightenment to dawn.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /AL

> > > > > --------

> > > > >

> > > > > ---

> > > > >

> > > > > Good luck to you finding that in a non-dual

> religion/forum/group.

> > > > >

> > > > > The method of most non-dualists (see countless posts on this

> > > board)

> > > > > is to focus on the separate by insisting that they are not

> real.

> > > > >

> > > > > It engages in a " separate-creating process " by it's very act.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is not so much of an embracing but rather a pre-

> occupation

> > > > > of " pushing " ideas away that do not fit their concept of " non-

> > > > > dualism " . This is why it doesn't surprise me that your past

> > > > > statements in posts consisted of a need to reject and push

> > > away/non-

> > > > > acceptance.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > It's all fine, I mean all roads lead to your destination.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are many roads to lead to your goal. Non-dualism is one

> > > > > of the hardest roads simply because people hide behind cloaks

> of

> > > > > notions that almost make it impossible for them to question.

> > > > > How can you ever question something that " is not " .

> > > > >

> > > > > And so the merry-go-round goes round and round. It just

> sounds so

> > > > > fabulous and enlightened though.

> > > > > And so the banging of the head against the illusory wall

> > > > > continues.

> > > > > Same old wall, different name.

> > > > >

> > > > > If enlightenment is your goal it will eventually work for you

> > > > > though. Of that you can be certain regardless of what wall

> you use

> > > > > to bang your head against.

> > > > >

> > > > > But the hardest part of your quest may be to define what you

> mean

> > > by

> > > > > enlightened? Otherwise you may be searching for something

> that you

> > > > > already have. Or, you may not even recognize it once you

> reach

> > > it.

> > > > >

> > > > > ~G.

> > > > > ----

> > > >

> > > > My idea of enlightenment is to be conflictless, totally

> > > conflictless.

> > > > That does not mean to never become angry, or not to have

> different

> > > > opinions of things, but rather a state of true clarity and

> peace, to

> > > > really feel fearless (even when one is being afraid :-). To be

> able

> > > to

> > > > be angry without any negative feeling. To have anxiety but not

> feel

> > > it

> > > > as a burden. To have a body and mind that is light, almost as if

> > > > defying gravity.

> > > >

> > > > /AL

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

<anders_lindman> wrote:

 

>

> The mind seemingly has to try evasion for a while to find its

limits,

> the borders of its thought-world. Then when seeing that

limitation it

> knows that it must look in another direction for resolving the

inner

> conflict.

>

> /AL

 

It's not able to look toward, nor cause, its own dissolution.

 

It can only come to an awareness of the total futility

of any of its strategies.

 

Talk about how wonderful it is that we're evolving is simply

another thought-production to get fascinated by.

 

Yes, we may evolve, and are involved in evolution.

 

Yet one can't and won't find the truth that transcends time

in the field of evolution nor the self manufactured by

the mind, an image manufactured to be an enjoyer of thought images.

 

On and on it goes.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman "

> <anders_lindman> wrote:

>

> >

> > The mind seemingly has to try evasion for a while to find its

> limits,

> > the borders of its thought-world. Then when seeing that

> limitation it

> > knows that it must look in another direction for resolving the

> inner

> > conflict.

> >

> > /AL

>

> It's not able to look toward, nor cause, its own dissolution.

>

> It can only come to an awareness of the total futility

> of any of its strategies.

>

> Talk about how wonderful it is that we're evolving is simply

> another thought-production to get fascinated by.

>

> Yes, we may evolve, and are involved in evolution.

>

> Yet one can't and won't find the truth that transcends time

> in the field of evolution nor the self manufactured by

> the mind, an image manufactured to be an enjoyer of thought images.

>

> On and on it goes.

 

That other direction is the futility you mentioned.

[Guest guest]

> ------------------------

>

> I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

>

> I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he needs or

> wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then he'll

> really be on a merry go round ride.

>

> However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination then

> whew!!!!

> I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

>

> ~G.

> ---------------

 

 

 

 

Well........we finally agree.

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote:

>

> > ------------------------

> >

> > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> >

> > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he needs or

> > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then he'll

> > really be on a merry go round ride.

> >

> > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination then

> > whew!!!!

> > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

> >

> > ~G.

> > ---------------

>

>

>

>

> Well........we finally agree.

>

 

 

 

It is the compulsive search for enlightenment.....that is insane.

 

 

 

 

 

>

 

> toombaru

[Guest guest]

Maybe compulsive searching for enlightenment has as its root insanity

and that compulsive search already is the beginning of healing ?

 

Werner

 

 

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

wrote:

> >

> > > ------------------------

> > >

> > > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> > >

> > > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he needs

or

> > > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then he'll

> > > really be on a merry go round ride.

> > >

> > > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination

then

> > > whew!!!!

> > > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

> > >

> > > ~G.

> > > ---------------

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Well........we finally agree.

> >

>

>

>

> It is the compulsive search for enlightenment.....that is insane.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> > toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote:

>

> Maybe compulsive searching for enlightenment has as its root insanity

> and that compulsive search already is the beginning of healing ?

>

> Werner

 

 

And if this reasoning is expanded then all searching, compulsive or

otherwise, has some function, for healing and so on. If one continues

with this line, impeding its general direction or attempting to turn

it off may be harmful to the appearance as it is an external direction

imposing upon a natural phenomena expressing. It would seem that

aiding in the obvious direction that is going however that is

conceived may be helpful.

 

On the other hand, how can it be known what direction it is going in,

what function is being played, out and what is helpful to it?

 

The helping professions and helpers have this as their goal and it is

a difficult one indeed.

 

 

 

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > > ------------------------

> > > >

> > > > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> > > >

> > > > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he needs

> or

> > > > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then he'll

> > > > really be on a merry go round ride.

> > > >

> > > > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination

> then

> > > > whew!!!!

> > > > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > > > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

> > > >

> > > > ~G.

> > > > ---------------

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Well........we finally agree.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > It is the compulsive search for enlightenment.....that is insane.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

wrote:

>

> > ------------------------

> >

> > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> >

> > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he needs

or

> > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then he'll

> > really be on a merry go round ride.

 

** We tend to avoid the fact that we are *the question*

...by 'having questions.'

 

 

> >

> > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination

then

> > whew!!!!

> > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

 

** You can 'ride the golden rainbow,' but eventually you're gonna

hit the ground.

 

 

> >

> > ~G.

> > ---------------

>

>

>

>

> Well........we finally agree.

>

>

> toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

wrote:

> >

> > > ------------------------

> > >

> > > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> > >

> > > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he

needs or

> > > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then

he'll

> > > really be on a merry go round ride.

> > >

> > > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination

then

> > > whew!!!!

> > > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

> > >

> > > ~G.

> > > ---------------

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Well........we finally agree.

> >

>

>

>

> It is the compulsive search for enlightenment.....that is insane.

 

** Search or not, it seems the real guru is inquiry,

which no one 'does' or chooses.

 

Reminds me of UG saying that 'guru' means 'the heavy one.'

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> > toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > > ------------------------

> > > >

> > > > I'm not the one asking the enlightenment questions,,,it's Al.

> > > >

> > > > I'm only assuring him that he will get all the answers he

> needs or

> > > > wants, but if he doesn't know what his questions are then

> he'll

> > > > really be on a merry go round ride.

> > > >

> > > > However, Toombaru, if this is your enlightenment destination

> then

> > > > whew!!!!

> > > > I'm sure glad I've got the prozac at the ready because your

> > > > definition of enlightenment is my definition of insane.

> > > >

> > > > ~G.

> > > > ---------------

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Well........we finally agree.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > It is the compulsive search for enlightenment.....that is insane.

>

> ** Search or not, it seems the real guru is inquiry,

 

 

Latent...within the human psyche is the smoldering belief that someone or

something can help it from its illusory prison.....

 

Every prison.....it assumes.....has something outside...some hoped for

freedom.....just outside of the prison walls........

 

What if that is simply not true?

 

 

What if the prison is all....that is?

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> which no one 'does' or chooses.

>

> Reminds me of UG saying that 'guru' means 'the heavy one.'

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > toombaru