Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is the result of the intellect. Thank You jworourke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hi James, This " I am " just means " I am, but not this and not that " . In other words it is without any attributes. It is very simple. It is your pure being stipped of any qualities you could name. And you cannot attach to the I am because you ARE that " I am " already. Werner Nisargadatta , " James W. ORourke " <jworourke41> wrote: > > > Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the > bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to > " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this > an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is > the result of the intellect. > Thank You > jworourke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " James W. ORourke " <jworourke41> wrote: > > > Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the > bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to > " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this > an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is > the result of the intellect. > Thank You > jworourke NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just after you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend means abide, stay there, return there. Welcome to the list, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 > > NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just after > you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend means > abide, stay there, return there. > > Welcome to the list, > Pete ******************************************** Hi Pete, Loved your answer. It is so clear! Truly. With that answer, I guess Stefan understands now what is behind the toughts!!! Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just after > > you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend means > > abide, stay there, return there. > > > > Welcome to the list, > > Pete > > ******************************************** > > Hi Pete, > > Loved your answer. It is so clear! Truly. With that answer, I guess > Stefan understands now what is behind the thoughts!!! > > No Joke! It is beautiful! Stefan if you don't understand what is behind the thoughts after Pete's posting I'm gone use my Zen stich and hit you very hard!! ;0) Love Pete, Alberto, > > Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is the result of the intellect. Thank You jworourke >>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say, " I am tired " , or " I am happy " ... that " I am " . Those other notions take you away and are irrelevant. It is not a particular notion of " I am " that is important, but rather *your* notion. *Your* notion of " I am " is a root notion to your own sense of existence. Most of us take our own notion of " I am " as something for granted, as something not examined, gone into. The exhortation " attend to I Am " is a direction to go into it. To explore deeply what is so close that it is almost never investigated. And to go into it very very deeply is only the beginning. It is a scratching of the surface. " I am " is not a goal, but rather, a clue, a hint, a " sniff " of what lies much deeper and cannot be put into words. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: >No Joke! It is beautiful! Stefan if you don't understand what is >behind the thoughts after Pete's posting I'm gone use my Zen stich >and hit you very hard!! ;0) If I understand or not... you can hit me anyway. I will accept it. And I understand. Sometimes Pete says simple, true things. But maybe we misinterprete him and look at what he sais with too much projection. Pete has said that there is " nothing " behind thoughts. (He used quotes of the master to " prove " this.) He also has said that this " nothing " equals deep sleep and dead. He did not accept any dispute about his " wisdom " . In the presence of the master we have never discussed about such things. It was too obvious... that this would be silly. And there was an immense sense of " respectfulness " that I am missing here. I believe without going into the experience to surrender " oneself " to a master it is very, very hard... maybe impossible to come to a certain level of understanding. Therefor I advice people to go through this experience... Some yankee people here have simply no culture. Somebody smashed the words of Krishna to peaces, saying: " There is a very good reason that the big religions have such appeal to the masses " . I could not believe my eyes, but he obviously does not even know that when Krishna has said this, the regarding religion did not yet exist. I dont know what to say anymore. Facing so much ignorance paired with big mouth. He did not even make the slightest attempt to see, if there might be some message for him... hidden in those words. The dog barked when he saw the bone. If we ALL could only accept that we ARE ignorance... I have to lough all the time... look, Pete: I Am The Big Achileas, The Magical Steve, The Great Warrior, The Blessed One! I Am God! I Am The Only Truth! Why are you so scared? What would happen if you would ... dare ... to say something like this? If you once would stand up and become... a real man with a true face? Instead you act like a " Giftzwerg " . It is simply lowest style to say " it is like this and it is like that... because Nisargadatta has said this in this quote... and where he has said otherwise: he was talking to someone who is not capable to understand " . This way religions are born, religious people are able to go to war in the name of religion. Of that what they made up from the words of a master. First they kill the master then they make a religion. I know, for many the quest is a very rocky road. So they take a rest on a parking place, and then they think the parking place is " it " ... Then they say " YOU " are the parkingplace and other nonsense. If there is a way, lets wake up. If there is no way, lets wake up. Did you get this??? My love to you, Alberto, and to all you guys here. Stefan, Achileas, Magicsteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > >No Joke! It is beautiful! Stefan if you don't understand what is > >behind the thoughts after Pete's posting I'm gone use my Zen stich > >and hit you very hard!! ;0) Love Stefan, Me to you: > > If I understand or not... you can hit me anyway. I will accept it. And I understand. Alberto: With what you just said above you have no idea how much you've grown! I had no intention to hit you with my Zen stick! I was just kidding! But your understanding shows that I can hit you once a a while! ;0) Sometimes Pete says simple, true things. But maybe we misinterprete him and look at what he sais with too much projection. Alberto: It's possible, that happens often you know. > Pete has said that there is " nothing " behind thoughts. (He used > quotes of the master to " prove " this.) He also has said that this > " nothing " equals deep sleep and dead. He did not accept any dispute > about his " wisdom " . Alberto: " nothing " as " nothing " is the most ridiculous " thing " that I ever heard! ha ha ha! " nothing " is impossible!! It is abolutly not true. It is false. Listen stefan. " If " it was true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL the masters, ALL, including God himself the void, life, The One Mind, Krishna, Brahman etc. All Would not exist! You wouldn't been asking this question at this very moment!! One of the best word that I found to try to explain God or the void etc. Is No-thing. That there is No-thing inside him. So it could be interpreted as nothing but " nothing " is a very false interpretation of Reality! Everything is not not not nothing!! See! Don't get confused no more. In the path to Self-Realisation " You " are very important if " You " were nothing, how could " you " realise that " You " are " nothing " in the bad sense of the word. " Nothing " cannot realise that it is " nothing " ! hi hi hi! It is absolutly ridiculous. Well, for " Me " . > In the presence of the master we have never discussed about such > things. It was too obvious... that this would be silly. And there was an immense sense of " respectfulness " that I am missing here. I believe without going into the experience to surrender " oneself " to a master it is very, very hard... maybe impossible to come to a certain level of understanding. Therefor I advice people to go through this experience... Alberto: I know! But we need to be careful because they are a lot of false Masters over there playing games, playing with peoples minds and hearts, destroying their hope to believe in the true God! > > Some yankee people here have simply no culture. Somebody smashed the words of Krishna to peaces, saying: " There is a very good reason that the big religions have such appeal to the masses " . I could not believe my eyes, but he obviously does not even know that when Krishna has said this, the regarding religion did not yet exist. I dont know what to say anymore. Facing so much ignorance paired with big mouth. He did not even make the slightest attempt to see, if there might be some message for him... hidden in those words. The dog barked when he saw the bone. If we ALL could only accept that we ARE ignorance... Alberto: Why All? Stefan, why All? Are you searching " Truth " or God for the others? Let the others take care of them selfves. " You " take care of your " Self " . They'll laught at you anyway!! :0) > I have to lough all the time... look, Pete: I Am The Big Achileas, The > Magical Steve, The Great Warrior, The Blessed One! I Am God! I Am The Only Truth! Why are you so scared? What would happen if you would ... dare ... to say something like this? If you once would stand up and become... a real man with a true face? > > Instead you act like a " Giftzwerg " . > > It is simply lowest style to say " it is like this and it is like > that... because Nisargadatta has said this in this quote... and where he has said otherwise: he was talking to someone who is not capable to understand " . This way religions are born, religious people are able to go to war in the name of religion. Of that what they made up from the words of a master. First they kill the master then they make a religion. > Alberto: Wars for religion! Not funny, very sad. > I know, for many the quest is a very rocky road. So they take a rest on a parking place, and then they think the parking place is " it " ... Alberto: that's how it works! > Then they say " YOU " are the parkingplace and other nonsense. If there is a way, lets wake up. If there is no way, lets wake up. Did you get this??? Alberto: Talking Love is not being truly in Love! See! A 14 years old young guy can say a lot of beautiful things about God, life etc. but he has no idea what he is talking about. He is too young to " understand " " awakenings " to what he is talking about. He has not embodied his statement. The person who says to his wife I love you and is truly in love embodies his statement. Another can say to his girlfriend I love you and it is not true and he knows it, but she is pretty you know! So, that one does not embodie his statment. Imagine now that he lies to himself and tries to convinces himself that he truly loves her? He is caught in his lie! There is no no no Wisdom in such a behavior!! That person is blind! > My love to you, Alberto, and to all you guys here. > Alberto: Love Stefan, Love is all there is! As Kip said!!! Stefan, Achileas, Magicsteve Alberto: You surely are Achileas!! I'm still looking for Odysseus where is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " James W. ORourke " > <jworourke41> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the > > bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to > > " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this > > an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is > > the result of the intellect. > > Thank You > > jworourke > > NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just after > you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend means > abide, stay there, return there. > > Welcome to the list, > Pete ........and when that fails......which it surely will.....you can add one more ribbon to your chest.....you can wear it next to that medal they gave you for twenty years of meditation.....and that little green one.....for surviving on nothing but vegetables......... ************************************** Ramana talks of crooks becoming police to catch the crooks.........becoming police to catch the.............. **************************************** Any attempt by the illusory self to change its perceived " condition " only adds to its apparent reality..... Any attempt to improve its " self " is selfish....and doomed to failure..... When mind imposes any command upon its self......like:..... " Be Good " or " Stay There!.........or " Be Quiet! " ......it is only a more subtle means of making itself appear substantial..........It is nothing other then solidfied-intent. And what can " you " do to stop this circular re-inforcement?............absolutely nothing. The " situation " is hopeless. **************************************** In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing happens........... **************************************** toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >The " situation " is hopeless. I agree >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing happens........... to whom? S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >The " situation " is hopeless. > > I agree > > >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > happens........... > > to whom? > > S. Well Stefan..............here we are at the edge..............can you see anything? " I " would guess that.......THIS is as close as " we " can get....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " James W. ORourke " > > <jworourke41> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right off the > > > bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to > > > " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is this > > > an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding which is > > > the result of the intellect. > > > Thank You > > > jworourke > > > > NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just after > > you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend means > > abide, stay there, return there. > > > > Welcome to the list, > > Pete > ******************************************************** > > > > .......and when that fails......which it surely will.....you can add one more ribbon to your chest.....you can wear it next to that medal they gave you for twenty years of meditation.....and that little green one.....for surviving on nothing but vegetables......... > Alberto: ha ha ha! I guess that student had only a medal after twenty years of meditation just because he had a bad Master that's all! Don't Kill Ramana Maharshi because of that bad master! lol! > ************************************** > Ramana talks of crooks becoming police to catch the crooks.........becoming police to catch the.............. > **************************************** Alberto: Of course, and? lol > Any attempt by the illusory self to change its perceived " condition " only adds to its apparent reality..... > > Any attempt to improve its " self " is selfish....and doomed to failure..... Alberto: No! Ramana teaches us to inquire and to ask ourselves, Who am I? It works, big time! It worked for me! Then Nisargadatta's master told him to " attend to I Am " He did and it took him 3 years to awaken! Here are two methods, two sadhanas, to way to acheive something, not " nothing " . What is acheived is the root of " I am " which is put in words by Master Nis. Pure awarness. I red that yesterday in the web! When I heard of the " attend to I Am " methode I was not very happy! It would have been quicker with the " attend to I Am " methode. But both are very powerful and true. The nothing stuff is garbage!!! Cleaning dirt with dirt. Where can someone go? > When mind imposes any command upon its self......like:..... " Be Good " or " Stay There!.........or " Be Quiet! " ......it is only a more subtle means of making itself appear substantial..........It is nothing other then solidfied-intent. > Alberto: Ramana says that the thoughts only subdue to the Self only when the mind recognise the Master, The Self, the mind surrender to him! Never before, you cannot foul the mind!! ha ha ha! The mind is smart! etc. > And what can " you " do to stop this circular re- inforcement?............absolutely nothing. > > The " situation " is hopeless. > >Alberto: Absolutly not! Karma yoga, bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga, " Who am I " methode. " attend to I Am " methode, they all bring you to the port! **************************************** > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing happens........... > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on the back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without being killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the problem is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? And he needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > >The " situation " is hopeless. > > > > I agree > > > > >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > happens........... > > > > to whom? > > > > S. > > > > Well Stefan..............here we are at the edge..............can you see anything? > > > " I " would guess that.......THIS is as close as " we " can get....... ************************************ hey guys, how wonderful is this post. wow. It is like those Zen masters poems. Guys, time stopped when I red this posting! Toombaru I Love you man! :0) Old Zen monk! lol I'm thristy now give me some more. :0 At the edge of the world, Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > >The " situation " is hopeless. > > > > > > I agree > > > > > > >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > > happens........... > > > > > > to whom? > > > > > > S. > > > > > > > > Well Stefan..............here we are at the edge..............can > you see anything? > > > > > > " I " would guess that.......THIS is as close as " we " can get....... > > ************************************ > > hey guys, how wonderful is this post. wow. It is like those Zen > masters poems. Guys, time stopped when I red this posting! > > Toombaru I Love you man! :0) Old Zen monk! lol I'm thristy now give > me some more. :0 > > At the edge of the world, > > Alberto, I'm sorry Alberto........there is nothing beyond the edge............This dream is All-That-Is...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " James W. ORourke " > > > <jworourke41> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I am new to the group and to Marahaji's teaching. Right > off the > > > > bat I hit an obstacle when He says that he was instructred to > > > > " attend to I Am " and I am confused as to what he means. Is > this > > > > an intuited feeling , this I Am, or is it an understanding > which is > > > > the result of the intellect. > > > > Thank You > > > > jworourke > > > > > > NO, JW is not an understanding. It's your consciousness just > after > > > you wake up, and before a thought crosses your mind. Attend > means > > > abide, stay there, return there. > > > > > > Welcome to the list, > > > Pete > > > ******************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > .......and when that fails......which it surely will.....you can > add one more ribbon to your chest.....you can wear it next to that > medal they gave you for twenty years of meditation.....and that > little green one.....for surviving on nothing but vegetables......... > > > Alberto: ha ha ha! I guess that student had only a medal after > twenty years of meditation just because he had a bad Master that's > all! Don't Kill Ramana Maharshi because of that bad master! lol! > > > ************************************** > > Ramana talks of crooks becoming police to catch the > crooks.........becoming police to catch the.............. > > **************************************** > > Alberto: Of course, and? lol > > > > Any attempt by the illusory self to change its > perceived " condition " only adds to its apparent reality..... > > > > Any attempt to improve its " self " is selfish....and doomed to > failure..... > > Alberto: No! Ramana teaches us to inquire and to ask ourselves, Who > am I? It works, big time! It worked for me! Then Nisargadatta's > master told him to " attend to I Am " He did and it took him 3 years > to awaken! Here are two methods, two sadhanas, to way to acheive > something, not " nothing " . What is acheived is the root of " I am " > which is put in words by Master Nis. Pure awarness. I red that > yesterday in the web! When I heard of the " attend to I Am " methode > I was not very happy! It would have been quicker with the " attend > to I Am " methode. But both are very powerful and true. The nothing > stuff is garbage!!! Cleaning dirt with dirt. Where can someone go? > > > When mind imposes any command upon its self......like:..... " Be > Good " or " Stay There!.........or " Be Quiet! " ......it is only a more > subtle means of making itself appear substantial..........It is > nothing other then solidfied-intent. > > > Alberto: Ramana says that the thoughts only subdue to the Self only > when the mind recognise the Master, The Self, the mind surrender to > him! Never before, you cannot foul the mind!! ha ha ha! The mind is > smart! etc. > > > And what can " you " do to stop this circular re- > inforcement?............absolutely nothing. > > > > The " situation " is hopeless. > > > >Alberto: Absolutly not! Karma yoga, bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga, " Who > am I " methode. " attend to I Am " methode, they all bring you to the > port! > > > **************************************** > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > happens........... > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on the > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without being > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the problem > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? And he > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > Alberto, I'm sorry again Alberto, Those things never worked......they never will. Ramana......broke apart when he was a teenager.......and spent the rest of his life suspended within the vastness...... .......the most amazing thing about Ramana...is that even tried.....to help those that he knew were only himself. Nisargadatta was wired to be opened......when his predisposition came in contact with his guru.....the combination was incendiary......... Any attempt of the self to change its perceived condition would require a person a locus.....to whom it could be applied...and some-thing substantial to apply it.......and we all know the problem with that........ If there is a bromide that you believe will help you in some way.......then by all means give it a try..........and if you are inclined to believe that it will benefit you....that's ok to...... And if the fates decide to let you see that .......sitting until your legs ache......running through the sagebrush in the dark.....chanting in a foreign language.....or not eating meat.....had not placed you one centemeter closer to heaven.......then that will happen.......or not. Just more bandages applied to a heavily burdened .............zombee. but don't worry..........the universe is self-cleaning......:-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > .... > > **************************************** > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > happens........... > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on the > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without being > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the problem > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? And he > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > Alberto, I assume the Ego cannot master it because it is itself the wild hungry tiger. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > ... > > > > **************************************** > > > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > happens........... > > > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on the > > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without being > > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the problem > > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? And he > > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > > > Alberto, > > I assume the Ego cannot master it because it is itself the wild > hungry tiger. > > /AL There is no ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: you >The " situation " is hopeless. me >I agree you >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing >happens........... me: >to whom? you: >Well Stefan... here we are at the edge... can >you see anything? --- >I'm sorry Alberto... there is nothing beyond the edge... This dream >is All-That-Is... Could you be more precise? (but not angry, please!!!) 1.How did " You " find this truth if you cannot see anything beyond that edge? 2.How can be there an edge to something that is a) a dream and b) the only thing there is? 3.How can you say that " it is a dream " when there is no dreamer? 4.You have still not answered my original question: " to whom " happens the most unspeakable thing? 5.How can there happen anything (speakable or unspeakable) if the dream is All-That-Is? 5.Oh, and one small thing: how can a " dream " that does not even exist, be hopeless? Could you tell me " what " or " who " is of no hope of " what " ? Maybe could you answer all five questions, thank you very much S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > **************************************** > > > > > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > > happens........... > > > > > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on the > > > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without being > > > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the problem > > > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? And he > > > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > > > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > > > > > Alberto, > > > > I assume the Ego cannot master it because it is itself the wild > > hungry tiger. > > > > /AL > > > > > > There is no ego. I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of having a vulnerable personal reputation. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > **************************************** > > > > > > > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > > > happens........... > > > > > > > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on > the > > > > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without > being > > > > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the > problem > > > > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? > And he > > > > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > > > > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > > > > > > > Alberto, > > > > > > I assume the Ego cannot master it because it is itself the wild > > > hungry tiger. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no ego. > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > /AL **************************** That is very good but you have to continue your search? You just started something good above if you stop there, you will just have sit in the parking, thinking That is " IT " . Alberto, :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > you > >The " situation " is hopeless. > me > >I agree > you > >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > >happens........... > me: > >to whom? > you: > >Well Stefan... here we are at the edge... can > >you see anything? > --- > > >I'm sorry Alberto... there is nothing beyond the edge... This dream > >is All-That-Is... > > Could you be more precise? (but not angry, please!!!) > 1.How did " You " find this truth if you cannot see anything beyond that > edge? > 2.How can be there an edge to something that is a) a dream and b) the > only thing there is? > 3.How can you say that " it is a dream " when there is no dreamer? > 4.You have still not answered my original question: > " to whom " happens the most unspeakable thing? > 5.How can there happen anything (speakable or unspeakable) if the > dream is All-That-Is? > 5.Oh, and one small thing: how can a " dream " that does not even exist, > be hopeless? Could you tell me " what " or " who " is of no hope of > " what " ? > > Maybe could you answer all five questions, > > thank you very much > S **************************************** Here goes the Warlord again! He doesn't want a peace or a glimps of the truth! He wants the whole cake!!! hahaha! That is very good Stefan. Stefan where is Odysseus, I love that guy, that Hero! Someone should take that name! Well I love it! Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > **************************************** > > > > > > > > > > In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > > > > happens........... > > > > > > > > > Alberto: Absolutly, marvalous, wonderfoul. But could you sit on > the > > > > back of a wild hungry tiger to master it to slave it without > being > > > > killed by it? No, the Ego can't! Only the Self can. But the > problem > > > > is that the seeker (not meaning you) does not know the Self? > And he > > > > needs the Self to master the beast?!?! That is why there are > > > > methodes, religions, paths, ways. Yogas. etc. > > > > > > > > Alberto, > > > > > > I assume the Ego cannot master it because it is itself the wild > > > hungry tiger. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no ego. > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > /AL The really nice thing about objects that exist only in the conceptual realm...is that anybody can " see " them anyway they want..... I personally picture Cinderella's dress as being a soft..off white.......There are some that swear that it is pink or dusty-rose..... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: .... > > > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > > society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable > > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of > > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > > > /AL > > **************************** > > That is very good but you have to continue your search? You just > started something good above if you stop there, you will just have > sit in the parking, thinking That is " IT " . > > Alberto, :0) We have to recognize the prison we are in an take out power back. Instead of being stuck in a web of fear where forces in socitety pulls our strings, we have to start using our _own_ minds. People talk about free will, and that is an important part of having power, but what they often don't see is that they are puppets to mechanical fear-based manipulation. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > .... > > The really nice thing about objects that exist only in the conceptual realm...is that anybody can " see " them anyway they want..... > > I personally picture Cinderella's dress as being a soft..off white.......There are some that swear that it is pink or dusty- rose..... > > toombaru As long as you are living in the shell of fear implemented by " open " society you can picture anything you like and still be a puppet controlled by the ego. Seing true causes of fear is the beginning of liberation. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > ... > > > > > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > > > society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable > > > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of > > > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > > > > > /AL > > > > **************************** > > > > That is very good but you have to continue your search? You just > > started something good above if you stop there, you will just have > > sit in the parking, thinking That is " IT " . > > > > Alberto, :0) > > We have to recognize the prison we are in an take out power back. > Instead of being stuck in a web of fear where forces in socitety > pulls our strings, we have to start using our _own_ minds. People > talk about free will, and that is an important part of having power, > but what they often don't see is that they are puppets to mechanical > fear-based manipulation. > > /AL ....it is a rare puppet indeed...that is able to unfasten the strings that support it and make it move.......I have never seen such a puppet............. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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