Guest guest Report post Posted May 31, 2004 You are not the thinker - you are the One observing the thinking. You are not your feelings - you are the One feeling the feeings. You are not living your life - you are the One experiencing your life. You are not the doer - you are the One observing the doing. You are not your body - you are the One being aware of the body. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 31, 2004 yeah... i can dig it... the way i see it, we r all the same self... the self can't be observed... it is the observer... u can't see it... u can only be it... the thing that keeps people from being it is the sense of a separate self, i.e. the ego... this separate ego sense constricts consciousness... it keeps people from realizing their god-self... their sat-chit-ananda... their being-consciousness-love/bliss.... Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > You are not the thinker - you are the One observing the thinking. > > You are not your feelings - you are the One feeling the feeings. > > You are not living your life - you are the One experiencing your life. > > You are not the doer - you are the One observing the doing. > > You are not your body - you are the One being aware of the body. > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > yeah... i can dig it... > > the way i see it, we r all the same self... the self can't be > observed... it is the observer... u can't see it... u can only be > it... the thing that keeps people from being it is the sense of a > separate self, i.e. the ego... this separate ego sense constricts > consciousness... it keeps people from realizing their god-self... > their sat-chit-ananda... their being-consciousness-love/bliss.... And when one begins to really see oneself as pure consciousness there is a great confusion in this seeing, at least for me. So I understand people who never even think the idea that they may be pure consciosness, because then they won't have to walk this scary path. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > You are not the thinker - you are the One observing the thinking. > > > > You are not your feelings - you are the One feeling the feeings. > > > > You are not living your life - you are the One experiencing your > life. > > > > You are not the doer - you are the One observing the doing. > > > > You are not your body - you are the One being aware of the body. > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 your confusion comes from seeking to see yourself as pure consciousness... u cannot see yourself as pure consciousness... u always already r pure consciousness... yours danananda Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > And when one begins to really see oneself as pure consciousness there > is a great confusion in this seeing, at least for me. So I understand > people who never even think the idea that they may be pure > consciosness, because then they won't have to walk this scary path. > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > your confusion comes from seeking to see yourself as pure > consciousness... u cannot see yourself as pure consciousness... u > always already r pure consciousness... > > yours > > danananda Yes, but it is one thing to think about being pure consciousness and another thing to actually experiencing it - e.g. total fearlessness vs a poised appearance hiding a vulnerable inside made of infinite fear. :-) /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > And when one begins to really see oneself as pure consciousness there > > is a great confusion in this seeing, at least for me. So I > understand > > people who never even think the idea that they may be pure > > consciosness, because then they won't have to walk this scary path. > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 ....but, u r already THAT... u r THAT which u seek... u r pure consciousness... there's nothing u have to do to get it... u r already THAT yours danananda Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Yes, but it is one thing to think about being pure consciousness and > another thing to actually experiencing it - e.g. total fearlessness > vs a poised appearance hiding a vulnerable inside made of infinite > fear. :-) > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > ...but, u r already THAT... u r THAT which u seek... u r pure > consciousness... there's nothing u have to do to get it... u r > already THAT > > yours > > danananda Yes, and a person having a dream in his or her sleep doesn't need be be afraid of the dream. But it is only in lucid dreaming that the fearless quality appear, in a lucid dream you wake up in the dream and know that it is just a dream and you can begin to fly and try all kinds of stunts. So we can say dreaming is dreaming, but I would say that lucid dreaming is something else than ordinary dreaming. Similarly, there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path of pure consciousness. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Yes, but it is one thing to think about being pure consciousness > and > > another thing to actually experiencing it - e.g. total fearlessness > > vs a poised appearance hiding a vulnerable inside made of infinite > > fear. :-) > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2004 dear anders lindman i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in reality... ....knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything i do is the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but walk it... i was walking it before i knew it what it was... Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Yes, and a person having a dream in his or her sleep doesn't need be > be afraid of the dream. But it is only in lucid dreaming that the > fearless quality appear, in a lucid dream you wake up in the dream > and know that it is just a dream and you can begin to fly and try all > kinds of stunts. So we can say dreaming is dreaming, but I would say > that lucid dreaming is something else than ordinary dreaming. > Similarly, there is a difference between knowing the path and walking > the path of pure consciousness. > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 --- danananda2004 <danananda2004 wrote: > ...but, u r already THAT... u r THAT which u seek... > u r pure > consciousness... there's nothing u have to do to get > it... u r > already THAT > > yours > > danananda > > > Nisargadatta , > " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Yes, but it is one thing to think about being pure > consciousness > and > > another thing to actually experiencing it - e.g. > total fearlessness > > vs a poised appearance hiding a vulnerable inside > made of infinite > > fear. :-) > > > > /AL > > > Dear Dayanda The eye cannot see itself, except with a mirror. Can the seer see itself or the knower know himself or the experiencer experience himself without the material world? Is it ever possible to know the unknowable? Is it ever possible to know truth? Plz comment Love Jacob Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger. http://messenger./ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > dear anders lindman > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in > reality... > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything i do is > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but walk it... > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Yes, and a person having a dream in his or her sleep doesn't need > be > > be afraid of the dream. But it is only in lucid dreaming that the > > fearless quality appear, in a lucid dream you wake up in the dream > > and know that it is just a dream and you can begin to fly and try > all > > kinds of stunts. So we can say dreaming is dreaming, but I would > say > > that lucid dreaming is something else than ordinary dreaming. > > Similarly, there is a difference between knowing the path and > walking > > the path of pure consciousness. > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 " Can the seer see itself or the knower know himself or the experiencer experience himself without the material world? " Maybe that's why it's said that enlightenment can only happen in a material body. Awesome thought !!! Nisargadatta , jacob mathan <jacmattvm> wrote: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > dear anders lindman > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in > > reality... > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything i do > is > > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but walk > it... > > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > /AL So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character knowing you're in a dream? Just another dream. If you have nothing to call it, it's neither dream nor something else, other than dream. Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 i never said this world was reality... Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 2, 2004 w/ god, all things r possible... your consciousness of me is the same as my consciousness of you... it's all the same consciousness in everybody, in everything... u can't know it except by being it... when u r being it, u know it... if u try to get outside yourself to see yourself, you create a duality, a dilemma, a separation... when u relax the ego & simply let it be, all is well... yours danananda Nisargadatta , jacob mathan <jacmattvm> wrote: > Dear Dayanda The eye cannot see itself, except with a > mirror. Can the seer see itself or the knower know > himself or the experiencer experience himself without > the material world? Is it ever possible to know the > unknowable? Is it ever possible to know truth? Plz > comment Love Jacob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 " ...And by using the mind to give birth to mind they always find themselves in hell...And by not using the mind to give birth to mind they always find themselves in the land of Buddhas. If you don't use your mind to create mind, every state of mind is empty and every thought is still...If you use your mind to create mind, every state of mind is disturbed and every thought is in motion. YOU GO FROM ONE HELL TO THE NEXT. When a thought arises, there's good karma and bad karma, heaven and hell. When no thought arises, there's no good karma or bad karma, no heaven or hell. " - Bodhidharma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > dear anders lindman > > > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in > > > reality... > > > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything i do > > is > > > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but walk > > it... > > > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > /AL > > So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character knowing > you're in a dream? > > Just another dream. > > If you have nothing to call it, it's neither dream nor > something else, other than dream. > > Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. > > -- Dan I call this world a dream because it is fear-based. Fear is a temporary illusion existing as an immature part of evolution. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > i never said this world was reality... > Sorry if I misunderstood you. This is a fear-based world and as such is it real, but fear will pass in time. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > dear anders lindman > > > > > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in > > > > reality... > > > > > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything i > do > > > is > > > > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but walk > > > it... > > > > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > > > /AL > > > > So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character knowing > > you're in a dream? > > > > Just another dream. > > > > If you have nothing to call it, it's neither dream nor > > something else, other than dream. > > > > Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. > > > > -- Dan > > I call this world a dream because it is fear-based. Fear is a > temporary illusion existing as an immature part of evolution. > > /AL Psychological fear is the emotional component of assumed separation. If one doesn't assume separation, no personal psychological motives, states or inferences (such as " I am afraid " ) cloud " what is. " So emotional reactions of any kind aren't an impedement: fear, desire, hatred, love, joy, bliss -- whatever form experience takes, is nothing more than a form experience takes. There is no separable entity who would prefer a state of fearlessness to fear. What is, is - as is. No judgment. No qualification. All totality as is. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 hey... no problem, anders... & yes... it is a fear based world... the human world is ego- centric... this is because the ego identifies w/ the body... the body is a temporary, fragile, elusive thing... it is foolish to identify w/ the body... this folly is where suffering comes from, from this mistaken identity... we r not the body... we are consciousness... we r god... consciousness never dies... consciousness is never born... i am that yours danananda2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > i never said this world was reality... > > > > Sorry if I misunderstood you. This is a fear-based world and as such > is it real, but fear will pass in time. > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 i see it as consciousness in relationship with form in the act of creation... humans r consciousness seeking form... all life forms r as such... yours danananda Nisargadatta , " sk000005 " <raav1@m...> wrote: > " ...And by using the mind to give birth to mind they always find > themselves in hell...And by not using the mind to give birth to mind > they always find themselves in the land of Buddhas. If you don't use > your mind to create mind, every state of mind is empty and every > thought is still...If you use your mind to create mind, every > state of mind is disturbed and every thought is in motion. YOU GO > FROM ONE HELL TO THE NEXT. When a thought arises, there's good karma > and bad karma, heaven and hell. When no thought arises, there's no > good karma or bad karma, no heaven or hell. " - Bodhidharma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > dear anders lindman > > > > > > > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested in > > > > > reality... > > > > > > > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... everything > i > > do > > > > is > > > > > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but > walk > > > > it... > > > > > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character knowing > > > you're in a dream? > > > > > > Just another dream. > > > > > > If you have nothing to call it, it's neither dream nor > > > something else, other than dream. > > > > > > Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > I call this world a dream because it is fear-based. Fear is a > > temporary illusion existing as an immature part of evolution. > > > > /AL > > Psychological fear is the emotional component of assumed separation. > > If one doesn't assume separation, no personal psychological > motives, states or inferences (such as " I am > afraid " ) cloud " what is. " > > So emotional reactions > of any kind aren't an impedement: fear, desire, hatred, > love, joy, bliss -- whatever form experience takes, > is nothing more than a form experience takes. > > There is no separable entity who would prefer a state of > fearlessness to fear. > > What is, is - as is. > > No judgment. > > No qualification. > > All totality as is. > > -- Dan Inluding the desire to become fearless! /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > hey... no problem, anders... > > & yes... it is a fear based world... the human world is ego- > centric... this is because the ego identifies w/ the body... the body > is a temporary, fragile, elusive thing... it is foolish to identify > w/ the body... this folly is where suffering comes from, from this > mistaken identity... we r not the body... we are consciousness... we > r god... consciousness never dies... consciousness is never born... i > am that > > yours > > danananda2004 To me, at least one thing is certain: " my " consciousness remains still as " me " , while the world inlcuding my body changes all the time. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > i never said this world was reality... > > > > > > > Sorry if I misunderstood you. This is a fear-based world and as > such > > is it real, but fear will pass in time. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2004 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , > " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > <dan330033> > > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , > " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , > " danananda2004 " > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > dear anders lindman > > > > > > > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am > mostly interested in > > > > > reality... > > > > > > > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the > path... everything > i > > do > > > > is > > > > > the path... i've always been the path... i > can't help but > walk > > > > it... > > > > > i was walking it before i knew it what it > was... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it > a dream. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character > knowing > > > you're in a dream? > > > > > > Just another dream. > > > > > > If you have nothing to call it, it's neither > dream nor > > > something else, other than dream. > > > > > > Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > I call this world a dream because it is > fear-based. Fear is a > > temporary illusion existing as an immature part of > evolution. > > > > /AL > > Psychological fear is the emotional component of > assumed separation. > > If one doesn't assume separation, no personal > psychological > motives, states or inferences (such as " I am > afraid " ) cloud " what is. " > > So emotional reactions > of any kind aren't an impedement: fear, desire, > hatred, > love, joy, bliss -- whatever form experience > takes, > is nothing more than a form experience takes. > > There is no separable entity who would prefer a > state of > fearlessness to fear. > > What is, is - as is. > > No judgment. > > No qualification. > > All totality as is. > > -- Dan > > Fear is giving importance to the body fearlessness is ignoring the body. jac Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger. http://messenger./ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2004 --- danananda2004 <danananda2004 wrote: > hey... no problem, anders... > > & yes... it is a fear based world... the human world > is ego- > centric... this is because the ego identifies w/ the > body... the body > is a temporary, fragile, elusive thing... it is > foolish to identify > w/ the body... this folly is where suffering comes > from, from this > mistaken identity... we r not the body... we are > consciousness... we > r god... consciousness never dies... consciousness > is never born... i > am that > > yours > > danananda2004 > > > > Nisargadatta , > " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , > " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > i never said this world was reality... > > > > > > > Sorry if I misunderstood you. This is a fear-based > world and as > such > > is it real, but fear will pass in time. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it > a dream. > > > > > > > > /AL > > friend, everytime we state that the world is unreal there is a part of our mind which says that it is real.That si because the mind works that way in opposite directions. So any statement by the mind will be countered by the mind itself ad infinitum. Otherwise realisation would have been easy.Maybe that is why the masters told us to ask questions to the mind rather than make statements.Love Jac Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger. http://messenger./ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > dear anders lindman > > > > > > > > > > > > i don't know much about dreaming... i am mostly interested > in > > > > > > reality... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...knowing & walking the path??? i am the path... > everything > > i > > > do > > > > > is > > > > > > the path... i've always been the path... i can't help but > > walk > > > > > it... > > > > > > i was walking it before i knew it what it was... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call this world reality. I call it a dream. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > So, now you're dreaming you're a dream character knowing > > > > you're in a dream? > > > > > > > > Just another dream. > > > > > > > > If you have nothing to call it, it's neither dream nor > > > > something else, other than dream. > > > > > > > > Just *is* -- neither being nor nonbeing. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > I call this world a dream because it is fear-based. Fear is a > > > temporary illusion existing as an immature part of evolution. > > > > > > /AL > > > > Psychological fear is the emotional component of assumed separation. > > > > If one doesn't assume separation, no personal psychological > > motives, states or inferences (such as " I am > > afraid " ) cloud " what is. " > > > > So emotional reactions > > of any kind aren't an impedement: fear, desire, hatred, > > love, joy, bliss -- whatever form experience takes, > > is nothing more than a form experience takes. > > > > There is no separable entity who would prefer a state of > > fearlessness to fear. > > > > What is, is - as is. > > > > No judgment. > > > > No qualification. > > > > All totality as is. > > > > -- Dan > > Inluding the desire to become fearless! > > /AL And all other meaningless desires that go nowhere! -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
