On being enlightened

October 13, 2002

There is no " one " to be enlightened.

If " one " is in the Now then " one " does not exist,

only the Now is. If " one " is not in the Now, then

there is delusion.

So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.

When any " one " dissolves into the Now that " one "

dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.

If one dissolves into Now " enlightenment is " .

If one precipitates out....

Forget enlightenment as permanent.

And " who " needs it?

Now is always knocking.

-Bill

October 13, 2002

Absolutely right in that " Who needs enlightenment,

anyway " ?

The part on " there is no one to get enlightened " is

lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know what

you're talking about.

Namaste,

-----

Anand.

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

& nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be

enlightened.

& nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then

& quot;one & quot; does not exist,

& nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot; is not in

the Now, then

& nbsp; there is delusion.

& nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that is the

Now.

& nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves into the Now

that & quot;one & quot;

& nbsp; dissolves into the single universal

buddha-nature.

& nbsp; If one dissolves into Now & quot;enlightenment

is & quot;.

& nbsp; If one precipitates out....

& nbsp; Forget enlightenment as permanent.

& nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?

& nbsp; Now is always knocking.

-Bill

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 13, 2002

Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

> The part on " there is no one to get enlightened " is

> lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know what

> you're talking about.

Care to elaborate?

October 13, 2002

Sure, Bill.

Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see yourself

as THAT or as Bill?

You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But your

experience in life tells you that there is very much a

Bill- the individual.

There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do

everything(and not do anything at all) and still it is

mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster

you realize that, the more ridiculous the search will

become and hence the happier you are.

If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure

you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the

words of all the masters will make sense). If it

doesn't , a BIG who cares?

Namaste,

----

Anand.

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

& gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get

enlightened & quot; is

& gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know

what

& gt; you're talking about.

Care to elaborate?

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 13, 2002

You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy.

Still, you don't know That. No one knows.

Pete

--- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote:

> Sure, Bill.

>

> Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see

> yourself

> as THAT or as Bill?

>

> You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But

> your

> experience in life tells you that there is very much

> a

> Bill- the individual.

>

> There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do

> everything(and not do anything at all) and still it

> is

> mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster

> you realize that, the more ridiculous the search

> will

> become and hence the happier you are.

>

> If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure

> you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the

> words of all the masters will make sense). If it

> doesn't , a BIG who cares?

>

> Namaste,

> ----

> Anand.

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> Anand Eswaran

> [anandesw]

> & gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get

> enlightened & quot; is

> & gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even

> know

> what

> & gt; you're talking about.

>

> Care to elaborate?

>

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> <td align=center><font size= " -1 "

> color=#003399>

> Sponsor</td>

> </tr>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

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> HEIGHT=250

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> size=-2>

> <TR>

> <TD>

> <a

>

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076:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs "

> target=_top><IMG

>

SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg "

> WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD>

> <TD>

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href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077\

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> WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD>

> </TR></a>

> </TABLE></td>

> </tr>

> <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

>

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupmai\

l/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=527701562 " ></td></tr>

> </table>

>

>

>

>

> <tt>

>

October 13, 2002

" That " is just a hammer,

looking for nails to hit.

If the nails move, then " That " is useless.

Talking about knowing " That "

may be good preparation

for a job selling used cars.

Love,

This'n'that

Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote:

>

> You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy.

> Still, you don't know That. No one knows.

>

> Pete

> --- Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> > Sure, Bill.

> >

> > Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see

> > yourself

> > as THAT or as Bill?

> >

> > You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But

> > your

> > experience in life tells you that there is very much

> > a

> > Bill- the individual.

> >

> > There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do

> > everything(and not do anything at all) and still it

> > is

> > mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster

> > you realize that, the more ridiculous the search

> > will

> > become and hence the happier you are.

> >

> > If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure

> > you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the

> > words of all the masters will make sense). If it

> > doesn't , a BIG who cares?

> >

> > Namaste,

> > ----

> > Anand.

> >

> > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote:

> > <HR>

> > <html><body>

> >

> > <tt>

> > Anand Eswaran

> > [anandesw]

> > & gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get

> > enlightened & quot; is

> > & gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even

> > know

> > what

> > & gt; you're talking about.

> >

> > Care to elaborate?

> >

> > </tt>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 "

> > color=#003399>

> > Sponsor</td>

> > </tr>

> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

> > <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300

> > HEIGHT=250

> > border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td

> > align=center><font face=arial

> > size=-2>

> > <TR>

> > <TD>

> > <a

> >

>

href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb

/S=1705077076:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.ref

er=blrecs "

> > target=_top><IMG

> >

>

SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_0

1.jpg "

> > WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD>

> > <TD>

> > <a

> >

>

href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb

/S=1705077076:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.ref

er=blrecs "

> > target=_top><IMG

> >

>

SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_0

2.gif "

> > WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD>

> > </TR></a>

> > </TABLE></td>

> > </tr>

> > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

> >

> src= " http://us.adserver./l?

M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=5277

01562 " ></td></tr>

> > </table>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <tt>

> >

October 13, 2002

Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

> Sure, Bill.

> Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see yourself

> as THAT or as Bill?

Must there be a " seeing myself as something " ? You beg the question.

And what what do you mean by " THAT " ? I can have no idea

what you mean.

I use the term Now because there is at least some hope of

understanding each other.

When all thoughts, sensations, etc. are viewed as *simply arising*

in this moment and all sense of continuity is abandoned the sense

of an observer/doer can disappear. If there is no sense of " oneself "

then there is Now.

> You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But your

> experience in life tells you that there is very much a

> Bill- the individual.

Now is the Garden of Eden. Falling from Grace is to

experience self as Bill or whoever. Falling into Grace

is dissolution of Bill or whoever and the simple appearance

of Now.

Even in the Living Now where doership dies, things get " done " .

Poems get written, for example. Emails get sent, are read etc.

In a way nothing changes, except that from the Living Now

" concern about what it all means " is gone, concern about direction

is gone. Actions simply arise. The *appearance* is of a person but

the *experience* is of a vital living Presence that encompasses every

sparkling vibration of the moment. It is dying to Now. It is as if

one were possessed so that one's former self were gone, and the

inhabiting spirit is Now, Presence.

Peace and Grace,

Bill

October 14, 2002

As always, your ego has the last word :-)

-----

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy.

Still, you don't know That. No one knows.

Pete

--- Anand Eswaran & lt;anandesw & gt;

wrote:

& gt; Sure, Bill.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do

you see

& gt; yourself

& gt; as THAT or as Bill?

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; You say & quot; there is none to be

enlightened & quot;. But

& gt; your

& gt; experience in life tells you that there is very

much

& gt; a

& gt; Bill- the individual.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no path to achieve THAT :

you can do

& gt; everything(and not do anything at all) and still

it

& gt; is

& gt; mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The

faster

& gt; you realize that, the more ridiculous the

search

& gt; will

& gt; become and hence the happier you are.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If THAT happens let it happen( and

then I assure

& gt; you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all

the

& gt; words of all the masters will make sense). If

it

& gt; doesn't , a & nbsp; BIG who cares?

& gt;

& gt; Namaste,

& gt; ----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp;

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; --- Bill Rishel

& lt;plexus & gt; wrote:

& gt; & lt;HR & gt;

& gt; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;tt & gt;

& gt; Anand Eswaran

& gt; [anandesw] & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; The part on & amp;quot; there is no one

to get

& gt; enlightened & amp;quot; is & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont

even

& gt; know

& gt; what & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; you're talking about. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Care to elaborate? & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;/tt & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;br & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;table border=0 cellspacing=0

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& gt; & lt;td align=center & gt; & lt;font

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& gt; color=#003399 & gt; & lt;b & gt;

& gt; Sponsor & lt;/b & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;/td & gt;

& gt; & lt;/tr & gt;

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October 14, 2002

Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That?

Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of

nothing)

Pete

-----

--- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote:

> As always, your ego has the last word :-)

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 14, 2002

Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote:

Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That?

Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of

nothing)

Pete

KKT: But of an << egg of nothing >>

hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM :-))

A koan: What is << before >> Egg-0 ?

Cheers :-)

KKT

October 14, 2002

Sure, if you say so.

-----

Anand.

--- phamdluan2000 <phamdluan wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Nisargadatta, pete seesaw

& lt;seesaw1us & gt; wrote:

Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That?

Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of

nothing)

Pete

KKT: But of an & lt; & lt; egg of nothing & gt; & gt;

hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM

:-))

A koan: What is & lt; & lt; before & gt; & gt; Egg-0 ?

Cheers :-)

KKT

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 14, 2002

Are you following me? )

Pete

--- phamdluan2000 <phamdluan wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta, pete seesaw

> <seesaw1us> wrote:

>

> Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That?

> Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of

> nothing)

>

> Pete

>

> KKT: But of an << egg of nothing >>

> hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM

> :-))

>

> A koan: What is << before >> Egg-0 ?

>

> Cheers :-)

>

> KKT

October 14, 2002

I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot

are two things:

1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that

sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is

because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox

or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.

2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of

nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some

other vague nondescript condition.

I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is

more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.

I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this

discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe the problem is in

the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles

to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta

appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who

sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what

to 'do' today.

Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it.

Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. So

now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making a

mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

achieves 'enlightenment'.

You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " or " one does not

have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar sentiments - -

Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is

achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the

horse.

Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote:

>

> There is no " one " to be enlightened.

> If " one " is in the Now then " one " does not exist,

> only the Now is. If " one " is not in the Now, then

> there is delusion.

>

> So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.

> When any " one " dissolves into the Now that " one "

> dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.

>

> If one dissolves into Now " enlightenment is " .

> If one precipitates out....

>

> Forget enlightenment as permanent.

> And " who " needs it?

> Now is always knocking.

>

> -Bill

October 14, 2002

-

trem23

Nisargadatta

Monday, October 14, 2002 5:14 PM

Re: On "being enlightened"

I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot are two things:1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some other vague nondescript condition.I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this discussion -- "I AM THAT ...", however I believe the problem is in the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what to 'do' today.Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it. Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. So now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making a mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or achieves 'enlightenment'.You may say "enlightenment is not an achievement" or "one does not have to do anything to be enlightened" or similiar sentiments - - Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the horse.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think you have ridden your trem to the wrong station... I think you belong on the Instant Idiotic Criticism List...

Amazing what people can learn by not reading books.. but it's very good of you to admit that you haven't read Nisargadatta before dismissing him totally and knowing that he missed.

By the way, what were the cart and the horse again?

Ding dong ding went the trolley...

Nisargadatta, "Bill Rishel" <plexus@x> wrote:> > There is no "one" to be enlightened.> If "one" is in the Now then "one" does not exist,> only the Now is. If "one" is not in the Now, then> there is delusion. > > So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.> When any "one" dissolves into the Now that "one"> dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.> > If one dissolves into Now "enlightenment is".> If one precipitates out....> > Forget enlightenment as permanent.> And "who" needs it?> Now is always knocking.> > > -Bill

October 14, 2002

This man is dangerous because he has seen through

us all. :-)

He is close to THAT simply because he bases

statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on

his experience : his Truth.

Namaste,

-----

Anand.

--- trem23 <inmadison wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two -

what I see alot

are two things:

1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of

words together that

sound impressive but don't add up to

anything. & nbsp; & nbsp; This is

because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a

riddle, paradox

or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of

these.

2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether

it be a mood of

nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of

nowness or some

other vague nondescript condition.

I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect

that there is

more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or

whatever.

I admit I have not read the book that is the source of

this

discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;, however I

believe the problem is in

the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there are no

obstacles

to 'enlightenment' except those we place before

ourselves, Nisargatta

appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary

Sixpack, who

sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a

clue of what

to 'do' today.

Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did

he do it. & nbsp;

Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought

the ticket. & nbsp; So

now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating carrots,

cleverness, making a

mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

achieves 'enlightenment'.

You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an

achievement & quot; or & quot;one does not

have to do anything to be enlightened & quot; or

similiar sentiments - -

Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

enlightenment is

achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where Nisargatta put

the cart before the

horse.

Nisargadatta, & quot;Bill Rishel & quot;

& lt;plexus@x & gt; wrote:

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be

enlightened.

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then

& quot;one & quot; does not exist,

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot;

is not in the Now, then

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; there is delusion.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that

is the Now.

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves

into the Now that & quot;one & quot;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal

buddha-nature.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now

& quot;enlightenment is & quot;.

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one precipitates out....

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as

permanent.

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Now is always knocking.

& gt;

& gt; -Bill

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 14, 2002

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> This man is dangerous because he has seen through

> us all. :-)

>

> He is close to THAT simply because he bases

> statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on

> his experience : his Truth.

variations of nonduality:

1. the positive way:

i am the Truth

i am the Self

i am the Consciousness

2. the negative way:

there is no such thing as the Self

hence no Universal Self the Brahman

therefore no universal Truth exists.

Some of the variations of interpretating 1 and 2

a. unfolding my own Truth must be more True than someone else's

experience

b. interpreting my experience is unfolding my own myth and hence it's

not more True or mythical than unfolding someone else's myth.

c. shhh...silence, we're meditating on consciousness/nothing now.

hur

October 14, 2002

Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote:

> I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot

> are two things:

> 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together

that

> sound impressive but don't add up to anything.

did you ever read ramana maharshi? particularly the book called " be

as you are " the teachings of ramana maharshi, edited by david

godman?

frankly speaking if i had not met a friend who was patient with me

and gave me plenty of books on nonduality and particularly the " be as

you are " by ramana maharshi, i would have been very confused about

all this " mumbo jumbo. "

i'm not saying ramana is only for the elementary level but he's for

all levels. it's just that to understand nisargadatta one must go

through the loop a few times and that's where ramana comes in, to

help us break through the loop.

hur

October 15, 2002

Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do you

came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

experience on the basis of one short, negative

message? Could the reason be that you are piss at us

because we don't show proper amazement at your wisdom?

You two have something in common: You both jump

to conclusions without investigating and look like

fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

Pete

> This man is dangerous because he has seen through

> us all. :-)

>

> He is close to THAT simply because he bases

> statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on

> his experience : his Truth.

>

> Namaste,

> -----

> Anand.

>

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 15, 2002

The Great Oz will once more speak . . .

The 'cart' is enlightenment, the 'horse' is getting there. Many

great souls have stumbled upon enlightenment, but have no clue how

they got there. As a result, the path to enlightenment is

bespecled with all sorts of wierd practices and lifestyles. I am

proposing that Nisgardatta is one such well-intentioned fellow; or

perhaps he has no intentions at all - he simply wrote from his

resolute mind and full heart.

Reading the exerps (which I had done long ago) it appears to me he

is speaking from enlightenment (or at least faking it pretty well),

but that does not qualify him as someone to follow. But then,

perhaps he doesn't wish to be followed, in which case, that leads

right to what I am saying.

One does not become a rich man by wearing the clothes of a rich man!

That would be putting the cart before the horse. God, I love

metaphores and I love me, the Great Oz has spoken.

October 15, 2002

You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad to

be reason for you to laugh.

Laughing insanely,

----

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do

you

came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

experience on the basis of one short, negative

message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss

at us

because we don't show proper amazement at your

wisdom?

You two have something in common: You both jump

to conclusions without investigating and look like

fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

Pete

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

he has seen through

& gt; us all. :-)

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he

bases

& gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but

on

& gt; his experience : his Truth.

& gt;

& gt; Namaste,

& gt; -----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

More

<a

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 15, 2002

No one knows about anyone else's ego.

All talk about ego is inherently talk

about one's own ego.

-Bill

Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: Re: On " being enlightened "

You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad to

be reason for you to laugh.

Laughing insanely,

----

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do

you

came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

experience on the basis of one short, negative

message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss

at us

because we don't show proper amazement at your

wisdom?

You two have something in common: You both jump

to conclusions without investigating and look like

fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

Pete

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

he has seen through

& gt; us all. :-)

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he

bases

& gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but

on

& gt; his experience : his Truth.

& gt;

& gt; Namaste,

& gt; -----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

More

<a

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 16, 2002

Hi,

For a moment drop the " fact " that " I Am That " is a book and consider

that it is the instrument in which Nisargadatta

channelled " knowledge " . Some refer to that " knowledge " as " on

enlightenment " .

Reading the book is an event, a veritable meditation in I-

consciousness. Hence, you may begin to understand why some will give

your writing short shift when you admit that you have not even READ

THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish to decipher what you

interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas?

Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read the Book and yet

attempting to make a substantive comment on Nisargadatta is , to

quote you, " putting the cart before the horse "

cornelius

Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote:

> I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot

> are two things:

> 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together

that

> sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is

> because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle,

paradox

> or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.

> 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood

of

> nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some

> other vague nondescript condition.

>

> I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is

> more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.

>

> I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this

> discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe the problem is in

> the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles

> to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves,

Nisargatta

> appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who

> sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what

> to 'do' today.

>

> Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it.

> Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket.

So

> now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making

a

> mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> achieves 'enlightenment'.

>

> You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " or " one does not

> have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar sentiments - -

> Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is

> achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the

> horse.

October 16, 2002

Hey Bill,

Where is El? We need her help. Don't you think?

Pete

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> No one knows about anyone else's ego.

> All talk about ego is inherently talk

> about one's own ego.

>

> -Bill

>

> Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

> Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: Re: On " being

> enlightened "

>

> You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad

> to

> be reason for you to laugh.

>

> Laughing insanely,

> ----

> Anand.

>

> --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do

> you

> came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

> experience on the basis of one short, negative

> message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss

> at us

> because we don't show proper amazement at your

> wisdom?

>

> You two have something in common: You both jump

> to conclusions without investigating and look

> like

> fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

>

> Pete

>

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

> he has seen through

> & gt; us all. :-)

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because

> he

> bases

> & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta

> but

> on

> & gt; his experience : his Truth.

> & gt;

> & gt; Namaste,

> & gt; -----

> & gt; Anand.

> & gt;

>

>

>

> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

> More

> <a

>

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> <td align=center><font size= " -1 "

> color=#003399>

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>

October 16, 2002

Indeed!

--- cornelius <d_agenda2000 wrote:

> Hi,

> For a moment drop the " fact " that " I Am That " is a

> book and consider

> that it is the instrument in which Nisargadatta

> channelled " knowledge " . Some refer to that

> " knowledge " as " on

> enlightenment " .

> Reading the book is an event, a veritable meditation

> in I-

> consciousness. Hence, you may begin to understand

> why some will give

> your writing short shift when you admit that you

> have not even READ

> THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish to

> decipher what you

> interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas?

> Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read the

> Book and yet

> attempting to make a substantive comment on

> Nisargadatta is , to

> quote you, " putting the cart before the horse "

>

> cornelius

>

> Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...>

> wrote:

> > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two

> - what I see alot

> > are two things:

> > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of

> words together

> that

> > sound impressive but don't add up to anything.

> This is

> > because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to

> be a riddle,

> paradox

> > or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of

> these.

> > 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling,

> whether it be a mood

> of

> > nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling

> of nowness or some

> > other vague nondescript condition.

> >

> > I also see folks such as myself - folks who

> suspect that there is

> > more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or

> whatever.

> >

> > I admit I have not read the book that is the

> source of this

> > discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe

> the problem is in

> > the book. While it is true that there are no

> obstacles

> > to 'enlightenment' except those we place before

> ourselves,

> Nisargatta

> > appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary

> Sixpack, who

> > sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't

> have a clue of what

> > to 'do' today.

> >

> > Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how

> did he do it.

> > Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I

> bought the ticket.

> So

> > now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots,

> cleverness, making

> a

> > mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> > achieves 'enlightenment'.

> >

> > You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement "

> or " one does not

> > have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar

> sentiments - -

> > Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

> enlightenment is

> > achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the

> cart before the

> > horse.

>

October 16, 2002

To whom is he dangerous?

" namastes " notwithstanding, who is so drawn to demonstrate their

cocksure arrogant nonconceptuality with american expletives.

somehow " your " nonconceptuality amounts to a " preppy " satsangh.

But then, need I remind myself that " sniper " is just a concept.

cornelius

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> This man is dangerous because he has seen through

> us all. :-)

>

> He is close to THAT simply because he bases

> statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on

> his experience : his Truth.

>

> Namaste,

> -----

> Anand.

>

> --- trem23 <inmadison@h...> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two -

> what I see alot

> are two things:

> 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of

> words together that

> sound impressive but don't add up to

> anything. & nbsp; & nbsp; This is

> because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a

> riddle, paradox

> or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of

> these.

> 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether

> it be a mood of

> nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of

> nowness or some

> other vague nondescript condition.

>

> I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect

> that there is

> more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or

> whatever.

>

> I admit I have not read the book that is the source of

> this

> discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;, however I

> believe the problem is in

> the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there are no

> obstacles

> to 'enlightenment' except those we place before

> ourselves, Nisargatta

> appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary

> Sixpack, who

> sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a

> clue of what

> to 'do' today.

>

> Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did

> he do it. & nbsp;

> Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought

> the ticket. & nbsp; So

> now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating carrots,

> cleverness, making a

> mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> achieves 'enlightenment'.

>

> You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an

> achievement & quot; or & quot;one does not

> have to do anything to be enlightened & quot; or

> similiar sentiments - -

> Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

> enlightenment is

> achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where Nisargatta put

> the cart before the

> horse.

>

> Nisargadatta, & quot;Bill Rishel & quot;

> plexus@x wrote:

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be

> enlightened.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then

> & quot;one & quot; does not exist,

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot;

> is not in the Now, then

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; there is delusion.

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that

> is the Now.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves

> into the Now that & quot;one & quot;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal

> buddha-nature.

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now

> & quot;enlightenment is & quot;.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one precipitates out....

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as

> permanent.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Now is always knocking.

> & gt;

> & gt; -Bill

>

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> <td align=center><font size= " -1 "

> color=#003399>

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