Bhagavad Gita - Questions and Insights from Daily Verse

March 18, 2009

NEW POSTING:

GITA 2:46

Hari Om

Brother Mike has raised a good question. Do the universes exist? If, yes-how?

If, no -how? At the outset let me state that BG 2:46 exclusively is with

reference to " realised souls " ! For such souls, there are no universes existing.

Only ONE exists. The world is dissolved in the Self.These objects, such as

mountains and the like, merge within consciousness in the delusion of a dream or

in fancy , as movements (or currents) merge in the wind. As the air with motion

completely enters within the air without motion and becomes non-different by

nature, so also, this object of the dream is an impurity or an obscuring factor

of Consciousness and merges therein. Only Consciousness shines thoroughly

through the appearance or perception of the objects in dreams and the like. But,

when not so shining, it attains to oneness with those very objects and has them

within itself.

The Highest perception (the Theory that the visible universe is not born) -

means in reality, the world does not exist. Everything is only Brahmin. The

invention of difference is only for instruction of the unenlightened.

Coming now to appendix referred by you, the delusion of the mind is destroyed

for one whose mind does not abide in enjoyments, who has tranquility which is

cool and stainless , and in whom the multitude of fetters of hope or desires has

been broken.

As long as there is ignorance, only so long there is experience of world. The

reality of the world exists only to the ignorant.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Gita 2:46

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

It is like this - If someone keeps on describing what Gulabjaamun fruit is to

one who has never seen it, might appreciate it. However, it is all theory.

But, to one who has eaten this fruit, does it require any of these explanation?

Similarly, those who have already perceived (anubhuti) Brahman, the description

of Vedas carries no value to him/her.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

GITA 2:46

Shree Hari-

With Reference to this paste, and noticing the comments by Sadhaks,

" All is nothing " , I take this to mean, everything is created as an illusion in

time:

>' Appendix—There is no end to worldly pleasures. There are endless

> universes and there are endless pleasures in them. But if they are

> renounced and one becomes detached from them, they come to an end.

> Similarly there are endless desires. However, if they are renounced, and if

one becomes desire-less, then these desires come to an end.'

Do these Universes exist as a plaything of desire?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor

-------------------------

GITA 2:46

As on obtaining a reservoir of water filled on all sides there is no use for a

small tank of water, likewise a Brahmana, who realizes the ultimate reality

(described in Vedas and other scriptures), has the same use for all the Vedas,

or say no use at all of the Vedas.

With reference to above verse, Kindly reply:

How one can recognize the larger tank of water or Brahamana? What is the length

of time to recognize it? What type of effort is needed to recognize it?

nipun ahuja

--------------------------------

GITA 2:46

Dear Sadaks,

In other way it probably means, once one who has realized the supreme from WHOM

vedas came, then there is no use of vedas. Vedas are only educational tools to

reach Paramathuma. But IF paramathuma is directly realized, then where comes the

question of such tools.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

==============================================================

March 19, 2009

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

We have been experiencing some problems with of recent. There may be delays in postings as we are unable to view the current "pending postings" for "Approval". Hopefully this is resolved soon! From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram -------------------- GITA 2:46

how indeed can anything be added to what Vyas Jee, Manjula jee and Mike jee have so realisingly said ....................... ah !

and yet ................. Buddha has given the ultimate answer to every possible question , and that is ............

yes

no

yes and no both

yes and no, neither .......

but dear sadhaks, this , too, is only for the enlightened ..................

ah, yes, one more thing .............. it has the power to lead the Mumukshus into the ultimate death, which is Immortality, which, thou art, dear self ........................

Tat Twam Asi .............

TAT-TWAM-ASI

In the wonder of Discovery, Govinda,

Narinder exclaimed, â€œTum He Ho, Krishna, Tum He To Ho!â€

And the whole Universe reverbrated with the sound

Tat-twam-asi, Tat-twam-asi, tat-twam-asi

Narinder was no more, never-more, never-ever !

And Existence rejoiced, â€œTat-twam-asi, Narinder, Tat-twam-asiâ€

Sing Narinder sing,

Sing the song of Love

Sing the song of One-ness

Aham Braham-asmi, Aham braham-asmi !

Thou indeed art That...............

AUM

narinder

----------

Shrikanti Ji,

Pranaams.

This verse can be called the essence of what Bhagwad Gita and Lord Krsna's message is.One must do ones duty and leave results of that action to God. If one does this then this Kalyug would be a less horrible place to live in as everyone will be concerned with doing selfless work and not selfish work.This is the verse that the many people who wanted to know where in BG it is stated about duties of various individuals should refer to. Do your duty and do not look forward to rewards.

With regards to the passage from Ramayana that you quoted, this seems to be at variance with the message conveyed in BG. According to your translation, Lord Rama is telling Sita Ma that she is free to chose what life she wants now and is under no obligation to return to him. This is the first time that I have seen this incident translated as such and I am very curious to know if this is yours or if this is stated in one of the various Ramayanas.

In Valmiki's Ramayana, this is how this incident was related--

CANTO CXVII.: SÃTÃ'S DISGRACE.

But, lady,'twas not love for theeThat led mine army o'er the sea.'Twas not for thee our blood was shed,Or LankÃ¡ filled with giant dead.No fond affection for my wifeInspired me in the hour of strife.I battled to avenge the causeOf honour and insulted laws.My love is fled, for on thy fameLies the dark blot of sin and shame;And thou art hateful as the light..

Many are of the opinion that Lord Rama rejected his wife and as such he was acting against Dharmic duty. What we are shown however is that when one is King--Duty towards Kingdom comes before duty towards relations and as Lord Rama stated-- I battled to avenge the cause,Of honour and insulted laws. In this translation we see how Lord Rama's action here corresponded to the message of The Bhagwad Gita. He did his Duty as a King. As Lord Krsna told Arjuna that his duty was not towards his relatives, it was toward his Duty.

As I have said before, I have not seen your translation anywhere before and would be grateful if you can tell where it can be found,thanks.

Regards,

Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

-----------

GITA 2:47

Shree Hari- Dear Shrikant,I thought this was well presented,the proof of your points are reflected in theworlds current woes, generated by the inverse of this shloka.Tamo-guna, reigns supreme; Thomas Merton, (Trappist/author/ commentator etc.),commented about the masses of his time, (1960's), nothing much has changed:'Each individual in the mass..doesn't care, he doesn't hear, he doesn't think.He does not act, he is pushed. He does not talk he produces conventional soundswhen stimulated by the appropriate noises ,he does not think, he secretescliches...'. He goes on in exasperation, referring to evil spirits anddemonizing of the masses.Bhagavad Gita—Chapter Sixteen comes to my mind, it completes the picture.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor.

-----------

GITA 2:47

As Joshiji says Lord Krishna's advice is to move from Prayas to Shreyas.

"The Sanskrit word Shreyas is often translated as " prosperity " Though " prosperity " is the nearest English word for Shreyas, it is a mischievous translation as the term " prosperity ". in its connotation cannot stand apart from a suggestion of " one's own prosperity at the expense of others". In India from the Vedic times to this date we wish for "Shreyae" which means "prosperity an individual enjoys when all around him prosper! when the nation progresses." (Swami Chinmayanand, The Science of Religion)

Warm regards

Mihir Shah

-----------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Let us see Mike's question as follows:Do these universes exist as a plaything for desires?One single desire of feeling of incompleteness, or inadequacy projects these universes of desires of pleasures outside itself to get fulfilled, but fails. Such single desire is intrinsic to ego, feeling of being separate consciousness. Failure is because fulfillment is not outside of itself, illusory are such universes. When Turns inward, finds universes of fulfillment lying. This is realization of Self, complete in Itself, needing nothing!Now the beauty and power of Truth-Sat! Do these universes exist? Only Conscious Being can ask this question implying that there are universes, an image in the mind already perceived, however, vague it may be, and then ask exist or not? Even if found non-existent, it is the image only not found, so what? keep searching!This means existence or non-existence both are perceptions in us, and we are Consciousness, which ever IS!These perceptions are also of the nature of Consciousness, single Reality, supporting non-existence in its lap for non-existence to be non-existent, or illusory to be illusion! Consciousness is Sat that never ceases to be! Krishna says I am sat and asat too in this sense! What we experience something as non-existence is the perceived absence of an object in a particular form with a particular name but never an absolute absence! one object may be non-existent as one but exists(change) as another object. Law of conservation supports it.Only Consciousness IS, and we are THAT!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------

GITA 2:46

Dear Mike, Nipun and others, Mike :" All is nothing", I take this to mean, everything is created as an illusion in time….. Do these Universes exist as a plaything of desire?Such questions do not arise during `sleep', they do only when we are awake. The good breeze emanating from the words of Shri Vyasji N B has already cleared the mist. Yet, my humble submission follows. I recall Dr Albert Einstein's famous quote that this whole universe is an illusion albeit of persistent nature.

The seers claim that the `wants' or `desires' make the ever changing world and `wholeness' or `desirelessness' brings out `salvation'. Mike's question whether the universes exist as a playthings of desires has been put forth by many others to the `seers' since time immemorial. The best answer I have ever got is `trying to know the origin of this universe, its purpose, its creator etc' without understanding the `confused knower who wants to know' is akin to drowning in the ocean of boggy ignorance. Despite `all if God', it is impossible (what a beautiful mystery!) to measure the `Measureless' with the limited and measurable tool of `mind'. The mind is the limited reservoir before the `limitless flood', and wow! this tiny drop/blob of proteins think itself separate from the ocean. Again quoting Dr Albert Einstein that there are two ways of looking at the universe, (1) every thing has a cause and effect and (2) every thing is a mystery. The former approach brings out the chaotic world and the latter one brings out the `satyam, shivam, sundaram' – please also recall song words quoted by Shashikala ji's in one of her not so old posts - `tera man darpan kahlaye' (your mind is the mirror). As says the great Swami Ramsukhdas ji, "better, let this mind be like the mirror – wherein reflections appear and disappear rather than like a film- roll keeping the memories of the always-changing things." May I add, let it be like a digital camera, store, use, rejoice and delete.

Nipun Ahuja - How one can recognize the larger tank of water or Brahamana? What is the length of time to recognize it? What type of effort is needed to recognize it?

If we can drop the mind even when we are awake, then the meaning of `sarvatah samplutodake (2/46)' becomes clear. Now we see that the universe has no beginning but sure it disappears in the Supreme Self. Your question has been taken care of. Yes or no? "HAD ME RAHE SO AULIA, BEHAD HUE SO PEER/ HAD BEHAD DONO TAJE, TAKO NAAM FAKEER"

(One who remains within limit is little learned person, one who goes beyond limits is the more learned person, but one who gives up both, i.e., limits and limitless is the real `saint'.

Kind regards, Suresh C. Sharma ________________________

Dear sadaks,

Bagavan HIMSELF says HE has created this world and the exact sequence in which HE created and when HE handed over it to Bhramaji. Actually it is very clearly narrated in Srimad Bagavath, as to how it came into existence, how Gunas were prepared Etc. It is clear in Upanashids also. In Bible also it is said clearly the world was created in 6 days and 7th Day Sabath day God took to rest. This rest means Sri Visnu on Aadhi Sesha lying in Yoga Nithra. In Markandeya Puran it is said clearly that world comes in existence and at the end of Kali Yug the whole creation abides in Sri Vishnu. How this abides is also clearly said. Besides it is very clearly said by saints that people lived on this earth are living on 13 other planets with their own timings. Ex: 24 hours on earth is one minute on other planet. In Sri Ramayan it is said that King Dasaratha appears to Sri Rama after Ravana got killed. In Vishnu puran it is said clearly that Prahalad came to this earth while king Bali was being sent to patal..

Also one important message told by Saint Poothanam lived in 16th century said that the time span is so long that the people there are felling jealose that on earth in Kali Yug just by Namasankeerthan people here will become divine, which is not possible for them, because of time span is very longer for them, and by the time they complete their time span this earth is going to be dissloved Av vaktham (Abides in GOD)YOGA maya Sri Krishna sends first before coming on this earth does all the negatives look positive and positives look negatives, for the reason that Man has to complete his Karma. If this Maya is not there then al of us will be conscience of Truth and Karma becomes ineffective.

Once man realizes by himself this truth, he becomes one with God.

Sadaks if required I can tell where all the above is which place and in which Sastras.

In Bagavath Geetha Bagavan says one who follows Sastras is a wise man. Bagavan HIMSELF says Sastras are Pramanams.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-----------

GITA 2:46

Dear Sadhakas , PranamAnother example for (2/46) . Vedas are a tool to achieve self Realisation. Use exists upto a certain time. Just as a pole vaulter uses a pole to reach the height of the bar, so should one use the Vedas to achieve Self Realisation. As soon as the pole vaulter reaches the bar he leaves the pole.He cannot cross the bar without the pole nor can he cross it with the pole. So for the Wise the Vedas have a limited use. But for most of us they have an emmence importance.Thanks and regards, Suhas Gogate

PRIOR POSTING

GITA 2:46Hari OmBrother Mike has raised a good question. Do the universes exist? If, yes-how?If, no -how? At the outset let me state that BG 2:46 exclusively is withreference to "realised souls"! For such souls, there are no universes existing.Only ONE exists. The world is dissolved in the Self.These objects, such asmountains and the like, merge within consciousness in the delusion of a dream orin fancy , as movements (or currents) merge in the wind. As the air with motioncompletely enters within the air without motion and becomes non-different bynature, so also, this object of the dream is an impurity or an obscuring factorof Consciousness and merges therein. Only Consciousness shines thoroughlythrough the appearance or perception of the objects in dreams and the like. But,when not so shining, it attains to oneness with those very objects and has themwithin itself.The Highest perception (the Theory that the visible universe is not born) -means in reality, the world does not exist. Everything is only Brahmin. Theinvention of difference is only for instruction of the unenlightened.Coming now to appendix referred by you, the delusion of the mind is destroyedfor one whose mind does not abide in enjoyments, who has tranquility which iscool and stainless , and in whom the multitude of fetters of hope or desires hasbeen broken.As long as there is ignorance, only so long there is experience of world. Thereality of the world exists only to the ignorant.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

----Gita 2:46Loving Divine,Pranam.It is like this - If someone keeps on describing what Gulabjaamun fruit is toone who has never seen it, might appreciate it. However, it is all theory. But, to one who has eaten this fruit, does it require any of these explanation? Similarly, those who have already perceived (anubhuti) Brahman, the descriptionof Vedas carries no value to him/her.humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGGITA 2:46Shree Hari-With Reference to this paste, and noticing the comments by Sadhaks," All is nothing", I take this to mean, everything is created as an illusion intime:>' Appendix—There is no end to worldly pleasures. There are endless> universes and there are endless pleasures in them. But if they are> renounced and one becomes detached from them, they come to an end.> Similarly there are endless desires. However, if they are renounced, and ifone becomes desire-less, then these desires come to an end.'Do these Universes exist as a plaything of desire?With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-------------------------GITA 2:46As on obtaining a reservoir of water filled on all sides there is no use for asmall tank of water, likewise a Brahmana, who realizes the ultimate reality(described in Vedas and other scriptures), has the same use for all the Vedas,or say no use at all of the Vedas.With reference to above verse, Kindly reply:How one can recognize the larger tank of water or Brahamana? What is the lengthof time to recognize it? What type of effort is needed to recognize it?nipun ahuja--------------------------------GITA 2:46Dear Sadaks,In other way it probably means, once one who has realized the supreme from WHOMvedas came, then there is no use of vedas. Vedas are only educational tools toreach Paramathuma. But IF paramathuma is directly realized, then where comes thequestion of such tools.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan==============================================================

March 20, 2009

NEW POSTING

In response to comments in today's post, Re: Bhagavad Gita - Questions and Insights from Daily Verse - Gita 2:47 ; I would like to respond as follows;

To Dear Nanda: Your observations are correct. It is not found either in Tulasi Ramayana or Valmiki Ramayana. It is found in a famous song in Marathi language written by Shri G. D. Maadagulkar in Geeta RaamaayaNa, "Mee Kele Nija Kaaryaasee, Dasha Dishaa MokaLyaa Tujasee, Nacha Maaga Anudnyaa Majasee, Sakhee Sarale Doghaan Madhale Naate, Leenate Chaarute Seete" i.e. Lord Raama after conclusively winning the epic battle by killing RaavaNa, told Seetaa: I have accomplished my obligatory tasks and duties, now all the ten directions are free for you for your next journey in life. O humble and beautiful Seete, you need not seek my permission anymore. O dear friend, if you think that now our relationship is over for ever, then so be it and in that case, I do not have any objection.

In saying so, Lord Raama has amply clarified that His objective to fight the battle was not limited only to His own selfish motive of rescue and release of his dear wife Seetaa. It was indeed for the `Vinaashaaya Cha Dushkrutaam' i.e. annihilation of the wicked forces represented by Demon RaavaNa.

To Dear Mike: Your comments are very apt. Many times in mathematics, we prove a hypothesis by corollary or by reductio ad absurdum i.e. reduction to the absurd or proof by contradiction.

To Dear Mihir Shah: In Sanskrit language `Preyas' means what pleases you and what you prefer to do; however `Shreyas' means what you ought to do irrespective of your likes and dislikes. In Sanskrit language there are multiple meanings of a word like `Dharma'. Therefore, please refer to the context and implicit meanings.

For example many critics of Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta translate `Chaarjuna' in 5th verse in 4th Chapter as `Chaar June' i.e. 4th June and jump to the conclusion that Arjuna was born on 4th June and therefore it is all a false cooked up story which cannot date back to 5,000 years ago or so. Another one is that, if you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution then how can a human being worship a monkey i.e. God Hanumana. We shall refrain from being victims of such manmade disasters, that are made with or without proper understandings and / or malice.

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

---------

-Shree Hari-I am so glad I asked this question regards the universes.(B.G. 2:46)I have long held the view that according to how one observes anything, will give results according to the domain/method etc., and the conclusions may be different.(Light particles light waves, the classic paradox). To see the results as an absolute is the illusion.Swami Vivekananda, dealt with the paradox of reality, in a book I readdecades ago, not in the solitary book I now own by Swami Vivekananda. Revertingto the paradox, the gist of what the Swami wrote, is, 'If one sees a ring ofripples in a pond, it could have been caused by a stone thrown into the pond, afish(or some such) jumping for insect and so on'. The point he made is, yes,cause = stone, effect = ripples, BUT beyond cause is THOUGHT.I may see 'reality' differently from another soul, a well practiced yogi mayhave yet another view by means of vibhutis,(powers, to be surrendered), who isright, all and none. But in GODS TRUTH they all must be illusions.One other thought dear Sadhaks, ones who meditate, have you ever touchedsomething beyond any means to describe; beyond the rational? (I certainly have alimited means of articulation, in such things).The various learned comments sourcing from GITAJI 2:46, caused me to respond.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor

-

PRIOR POSTING

GITA 2:46

how indeed can anything be added to what Vyas Jee, Manjula jee and Mike jee have so realisingly said ....................... ah ! and yet ................. Buddha has given the ultimate answer to every possible question , and that is ............ yes no yes and no both yes and no, neither ....... but dear sadhaks, this , too, is only for the enlightened .................. ah, yes, one more thing .............. it has the power to lead the Mumukshus into the ultimate death, which is Immortality, which, thou art, dear self ........................ Tat Twam Asi .............

TAT-TWAM-ASI

In the wonder of Discovery, Govinda,

Narinder exclaimed, â€œTum He Ho, Krishna, Tum He To Ho!â€

And the whole Universe reverbrated with the sound

Tat-twam-asi, Tat-twam-asi, tat-twam-asi

Narinder was no more, never-more, never-ever !

And Existence rejoiced, â€œTat-twam-asi, Narinder, Tat-twam-asiâ€

Sing Narinder sing,

Sing the song of Love

Sing the song of One-ness

Aham Braham-asmi, Aham braham-asmi !

Thou indeed art That...............

AUM

narinder

----------

Shrikanti Ji, Pranaams. This verse can be called the essence of what Bhagwad Gita and Lord Krsna's message is.One must do ones duty and leave results of that action to God. If one does this then this Kalyug would be a less horrible place to live in as everyone will be concerned with doing selfless work and not selfish work.This is the verse that the many people who wanted to know where in BG it is stated about duties of various individuals should refer to. Do your duty and do not look forward to rewards. With regards to the passage from Ramayana that you quoted, this seems to be at variance with the message conveyed in BG. According to your translation, Lord Rama is telling Sita Ma that she is free to chose what life she wants now and is under no obligation to return to him. This is the first time that I have seen this incident translated as such and I am very curious to know if this is yours or if this is stated in one of the various Ramayanas. In Valmiki's Ramayana, this is how this incident was related--CANTO CXVII.: SÃTÃ'S DISGRACE.But, lady,'twas not love for theeThat led mine army o'er the sea.'Twas not for thee our blood was shed,Or LankÃ¡ filled with giant dead.No fond affection for my wifeInspired me in the hour of strife.I battled to avenge the causeOf honour and insulted laws.My love is fled, for on thy fameLies the dark blot of sin and shame;And thou art hateful as the light.. Many are of the opinion that Lord Rama rejected his wife and as such he was acting against Dharmic duty. What we are shown however is that when one is King--Duty towards Kingdom comes before duty towards relations and as Lord Rama stated-- I battled to avenge the cause,Of honour and insulted laws. In this translation we see how Lord Rama's action here corresponded to the message of The Bhagwad Gita. He did his Duty as a King. As Lord Krsna told Arjuna that his duty was not towards his relatives, it was toward his Duty. As I have said before, I have not seen your translation anywhere before and would be grateful if you can tell where it can be found,thanks.Regards,Nanda TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)-----------GITA 2:47 Shree Hari-

Dear Shrikant,

I thought this was well presented,the proof of your points are reflected in theworlds current woes, generated by the inverse of this shloka.Tamo-guna, reigns supreme; Thomas Merton, (Trappist/author/ commentator etc.),commented about the masses of his time, (1960's), nothing much has changed:'Each individual in the mass..doesn't care, he doesn't hear, he doesn't think.He does not act, he is pushed. He does not talk he produces conventional soundswhen stimulated by the appropriate noises ,he does not think, he secretescliches...'. He goes on in exasperation, referring to evil spirits anddemonizing of the masses.Bhagavad Gita—Chapter Sixteen comes to my mind, it completes the picture.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor.-----------GITA 2:47As Joshiji says Lord Krishna's advice is to move from Prayas to Shreyas.

"The Sanskrit word Shreyas is often translated as " prosperity " Though " prosperity " is the nearest English word for Shreyas, it is a mischievous translation as the term " prosperity ". in its connotation cannot stand apart from a suggestion of " one's own prosperity at the expense of others". In India from the Vedic times to this date we wish for "Shreyae" which means "prosperity an individual enjoys when all around him prosper! when the nation progresses." (Swami Chinmayanand, The Science of Religion) Warm regardsMihir Shah-----------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Let us see Mike's question as follows:Do these universes exist as a plaything for desires?One single desire of feeling of incompleteness, or inadequacy projects these universes of desires of pleasures outside itself to get fulfilled, but fails. Such single desire is intrinsic to ego, feeling of being separate consciousness. Failure is because fulfillment is not outside of itself, illusory are such universes. When Turns inward, finds universes of fulfillment lying. This is realization of Self, complete in Itself, needing nothing!

Now the beauty and power of Truth-Sat! Do these universes exist? Only Conscious Being can ask this question implying that there are universes, an image in the mind already perceived, however, vague it may be, and then ask exist or not? Even if found non-existent, it is the image only not found, so what? keep searching!This means existence or non-existence both are perceptions in us, and we are Consciousness, which ever IS!These perceptions are also of the nature of Consciousness, single Reality, supporting non-existence in its lap for non-existence to be non-existent, or illusory to be illusion! Consciousness is Sat that never ceases to be! Krishna says I am sat and asat too in this sense! What we experience something as non-existence is the perceived absence of an object in a particular form with a particular name but never an absolute absence! one object may be non-existent as one but exists(change) as another object. Law of conservation supports it.Only Consciousness IS, and we are THAT!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--------------------------------GITA 2:46 Dear Mike, Nipun and others,

Mike :" All is nothing", I take this to mean, everything is created as an illusion in time….. Do these Universes exist as a plaything of desire?

Such questions do not arise during `sleep', they do only when we are awake. The good breeze emanating from the words of Shri Vyasji N B has already cleared the mist. Yet, my humble submission follows. I recall Dr Albert Einstein's famous quote that this whole universe is an illusion albeit of persistent nature.

The seers claim that the `wants' or `desires' make the ever changing world and `wholeness' or `desirelessness' brings out `salvation'. Mike's question whether the universes exist as a playthings of desires has been put forth by many others to the `seers' since time immemorial. The best answer I have ever got is `trying to know the origin of this universe, its purpose, its creator etc' without understanding the `confused knower who wants to know' is akin to drowning in the ocean of boggy ignorance.

Despite `all if God', it is impossible (what a beautiful mystery!) to measure the `Measureless' with the limited and measurable tool of `mind'. The mind is the limited reservoir before the `limitless flood', and wow! this tiny drop/blob of proteins think itself separate from the ocean.

Again quoting Dr Albert Einstein that there are two ways of looking at the universe, (1) every thing has a cause and effect and (2) every thing is a mystery. The former approach brings out the chaotic world and the latter one brings out the `satyam, shivam, sundaram' – please also recall song words quoted by Shashikala ji's in one of her not so old posts - `tera man darpan kahlaye' (your mind is the mirror). As says the great Swami Ramsukhdas ji, "better, let this mind be like the mirror – wherein reflections appear and disappear rather than like a film- roll keeping the memories of the always-changing things." May I add, let it be like a digital camera, store, use, rejoice and delete.

Nipun Ahuja - How one can recognize the larger tank of water or Brahamana? What is the length of time to recognize it? What type of effort is needed to recognize it?

If we can drop the mind even when we are awake, then the meaning of `sarvatah samplutodake (2/46)' becomes clear. Now we see that the universe has no beginning but sure it disappears in the Supreme Self. Your question has been taken care of. Yes or no?

"HAD ME RAHE SO AULIA, BEHAD HUE SO PEER/

HAD BEHAD DONO TAJE, TAKO NAAM FAKEER"

(One who remains within limit is little learned person, one who goes beyond limits is the more learned person, but one who gives up both, i.e., limits and limitless is the real `saint'.

Kind regards,

Suresh C. Sharma ________________________

Dear sadaks,

Bagavan HIMSELF says HE has created this world and the exact sequence in which HE created and when HE handed over it to Bhramaji. Actually it is very clearly narrated in Srimad Bagavath, as to how it came into existence, how Gunas were prepared Etc. It is clear in Upanashids also. In Bible also it is said clearly the world was created in 6 days and 7th Day Sabath day God took to rest. This rest means Sri Visnu on Aadhi Sesha lying in Yoga Nithra. In Markandeya Puran it is said clearly that world comes in existence and at the end of Kali Yug the whole creation abides in Sri Vishnu. How this abides is also clearly said. Besides it is very clearly said by saints that people lived on this earth are living on 13 other planets with their own timings. Ex: 24 hours on earth is one minute on other planet. In Sri Ramayan it is said that King Dasaratha appears to Sri Rama after Ravana got killed. In Vishnu puran it is said clearly that Prahalad came to this earth while king Bali was being sent to patal..

Also one important message told by Saint Poothanam lived in 16th century said that the time span is so long that the people there are felling jealose that on earth in Kali Yug just by Namasankeerthan people here will become divine, which is not possible for them, because of time span is very longer for them, and by the time they complete their time span this earth is going to be dissloved Av vaktham (Abides in GOD)YOGA maya Sri Krishna sends first before coming on this earth does all the negatives look positive and positives look negatives, for the reason that Man has to complete his Karma. If this Maya is not there then al of us will be conscience of Truth and Karma becomes ineffective.

Once man realizes by himself this truth, he becomes one with God. Sadaks if required I can tell where all the above is which place and in which Sastras.

In Bagavath Geetha Bagavan says one who follows Sastras is a wise man. Bagavan HIMSELF says Sastras are Pramanams.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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GITA 2:46

Dear Sadhakas , PranamAnother example for (2/46) . Vedas are a tool to achieve self Realisation. Use exists upto a certain time. Just as a pole vaulter uses a pole to reach the height of the bar, so should one use the Vedas to achieve Self Realisation. As soon as the pole vaulter reaches the bar he leaves the pole.He cannot cross the bar without the pole nor can he cross it with the pole. So for the Wise the Vedas have a limited use. But for most of us they have an emmence importance.

Thanks and regards, Suhas Gogate

PRIOR POSTING

GITA 2:46

Hari Om

Brother Mike has raised a good question. Do the universes exist? If, yes-how?If, no -how? At the outset let me state that BG 2:46 exclusively is withreference to "realised souls"! For such souls, there are no universes existing.Only ONE exists. The world is dissolved in the Self.These objects, such asmountains and the like, merge within consciousness in the delusion of a dream orin fancy , as movements (or currents) merge in the wind. As the air with motioncompletely enters within the air without motion and becomes non-different bynature, so also, this object of the dream is an impurity or an obscuring factorof Consciousness and merges therein. Only Consciousness shines thoroughlythrough the appearance or perception of the objects in dreams and the like. But,when not so shining, it attains to oneness with those very objects and has themwithin itself.

The Highest perception (the Theory that the visible universe is not born) -means in reality, the world does not exist. Everything is only Brahmin. Theinvention of difference is only for instruction of the unenlightened.

Coming now to appendix referred by you, the delusion of the mind is destroyedfor one whose mind does not abide in enjoyments, who has tranquility which iscool and stainless , and in whom the multitude of fetters of hope or desires hasbeen broken.

As long as there is ignorance, only so long there is experience of world. Thereality of the world exists only to the ignorant.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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----------------------------Gita 2:46

Loving Divine,Pranam.It is like this - If someone keeps on describing what Gulabjaamun fruit is toone who has never seen it, might appreciate it. However, it is all theory. But, to one who has eaten this fruit, does it require any of these explanation? Similarly, those who have already perceived (anubhuti) Brahman, the descriptionof Vedas carries no value to him/her.humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----------------------------PRIOR POSTING

GITA 2:46

Shree Hari-

With Reference to this paste, and noticing the comments by Sadhaks," All is nothing", I take this to mean, everything is created as an illusion intime:

>' Appendix—There is no end to worldly pleasures. There are endless> universes and there are endless pleasures in them. But if they are> renounced and one becomes detached from them, they come to an end.> Similarly there are endless desires. However, if they are renounced, and ifone becomes desire-less, then these desires come to an end.'

Do these Universes exist as a plaything of desire?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-------------------------

GITA 2:46

As on obtaining a reservoir of water filled on all sides there is no use for asmall tank of water, likewise a Brahmana, who realizes the ultimate reality(described in Vedas and other scriptures), has the same use for all the Vedas,or say no use at all of the Vedas.

With reference to above verse, Kindly reply:How one can recognize the larger tank of water or Brahamana? What is the lengthof time to recognize it? What type of effort is needed to recognize it?

nipun ahuja--------------------------------

GITA 2:46

Dear Sadaks,In other way it probably means, once one who has realized the supreme from WHOMvedas came, then there is no use of vedas. Vedas are only educational tools toreach Paramathuma. But IF paramathuma is directly realized, then where comes thequestion of such tools.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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March 21, 2009

NEW POSTING

Gita 2:48

Dear Sadaks,This Raga and Dwesha plays very important role in life. This two are play card of Maya. We have experienced likes and dislikes on the same person at differant situations and times. Likes that are pleasing and pleasurable in the body at one time becomes displeasure at old age. Organs of actions Sastras call it, becomes in effective. Bagavan in Geetha has said, "If the desires for Kama does not Go at very old age although the organs of actions are ineffective, then I (God-Sri Krishna) give that jeeva fresh body to enjoy"". So is applicable in case of so many likes and dislikes. There is good commentry from Bajagovindam. This does not exempt even the most realized souls. Ex: Sant Namdev just before his death, when God (Sri Krishna) appeared, he said that his likes of completing the Abangs are not fulfilled (Nobal Cause), Sri Krishna said OK and gave him birth as Sant Tukaram. Likes and dislikes are the worst tools of destruction.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------

Gita 2:47

Dear Sadhak

This sloka is the short maxim of Bhagvat Geeita and it should be recited every day.I plan to add to my daily Gita recitations.If we have faith in Geeta recitation we get the desired results in our life This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi used to find answers for any question originated in his life I used to recite Gita chapters from my childhood.I experience its effect in solving my problems of my life Start reciting any chapter yu like and visualize its effect within one month.

Truly yours

S S Bhatt

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Hari Om

Gita 2:47Thanks Mike for apt conclusions . "I have long held the view that according to how one observes anything, will give results according to the domain/method etc., and the conclusions may be different"In fact within every world, there are other worlds too of different kinds. The origin of individual soul is the Supreme Brahman existing everywhere like the sky. Within the individual soul, several classes of individual souls exist like the covers of plaintain tree and like worms in the interior of the earth, on account of their permanent nature being only Supreme Consciousness. The triple world exists within the the atom of consciousness AS A CITY IN A DREAM.The ego-nature / sense of "I" exists within the world and world exists within the ego sense, enclosed within one another like the basic coverings of a plaintain tree !The collections of the worlds are not perceived mutually. On account of omnipotence of the Reality everywhere, whatever energy leads to anywhere by reason of intense agitation ( i e intensity of THOUGHT), it remains there and shines in that manner ( i e , whatever is intensely THOUGHT of any where, can be experienced there) .Infinite worlds thus arise and disappear like waves of water in an ocean, revolving again and again. Like: Masses of mosquitoes afflicted during rains. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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-Shree Hari-

Gita 2:48Dear Shrikant,This Shloka, and comments by you, caused me to ask a question.Because of my skills etc. in a martial art, I am ask to give publicdemonstrations. Now I would rather be digging my garden, or holding a standardclass with my regular students. When asked I always say yes, you see I considerit a duty, a service to the community, (not a money venture).When performing a demonstration, my body is flowing, my mind is absolutelyfocused it suppresses the disquiet within.The disquiet appears primordial, deep no rational explanation, it never stopsme, has it got easier, yes, slowly,slowly.How does this stand w.r.t. Bhagavad Gita Shloka 2:48.In passing there are many souls, who every day face their 'demons', yet it doesnot stop them from performing their duties.(To mankind).With Respect and Divine LoveMike Keenor ------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji wrote,''Swami wrote, is, 'If one sees a ring of ripples in a pond, it could have been caused by a stone thrown into the pond, a fish(or some such) jumping for insect and so on'. The point he made is, yes, cause = stone, effect = ripples, BUT beyond cause is THOUGHT."". This type of cause and effect is by experience. Example: If one has seen a rat earlier, he can tell rat tail when the rat is almost hidden in a whole with only it`s tail sticking out. So in case of fire and smoke.But we cannot see or know the cause and effect of our birth. By Gyana Anuboothi Yes we can know. There was famous saint called Vemmana in Andra Pradesh. He was gold merchant. He renounced. Sitting in open air, when rain comes, not a drop of water falls on him. He could make blind see. One day by his side only 2 plaintains (small bananas) and a jug of milk as lunch. A waylaider came and took the food. He had only one disciple who objected and showed resistence. Sant said let him go. Disciple could not understand of someone robbing food. Sant said that person was his class mate in earlier birth, when the sant (earlier another boy) robbed of peanut ball. As a result Bagavan sent this person now to erase my Karma credit. Vasudeva Sarvam.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

In response to comments in today's post, Re: Bhagavad Gita - Questions and Insights from Daily Verse - Gita 2:47 ; I would like to respond as follows;

To Dear Nanda: Your observations are correct. It is not found either in Tulasi Ramayana or Valmiki Ramayana. It is found in a famous song in Marathi language written by Shri G. D. Maadagulkar in Geeta RaamaayaNa, "Mee Kele Nija Kaaryaasee, Dasha Dishaa MokaLyaa Tujasee, Nacha Maaga Anudnyaa Majasee, Sakhee Sarale Doghaan Madhale Naate, Leenate Chaarute Seete" i.e. Lord Raama after conclusively winning the epic battle by killing RaavaNa, told Seetaa: I have accomplished my obligatory tasks and duties, now all the ten directions are free for you for your next journey in life. O humble and beautiful Seete, you need not seek my permission anymore. O dear friend, if you think that now our relationship is over for ever, then so be it and in that case, I do not have any objection.

In saying so, Lord Raama has amply clarified that His objective to fight the battle was not limited only to His own selfish motive of rescue and release of his dear wife Seetaa. It was indeed for the `Vinaashaaya Cha Dushkrutaam' i.e. annihilation of the wicked forces represented by Demon RaavaNa.

To Dear Mike: Your comments are very apt. Many times in mathematics, we prove a hypothesis by corollary or by reductio ad absurdum i.e. reduction to the absurd or proof by contradiction.

To Dear Mihir Shah: In Sanskrit language `Preyas' means what pleases you and what you prefer to do; however `Shreyas' means what you ought to do irrespective of your likes and dislikes. In Sanskrit language there are multiple meanings of a word like `Dharma'. Therefore, please refer to the context and implicit meanings.

For example many critics of Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta translate `Chaarjuna' in 5th verse in 4th Chapter as `Chaar June' i.e. 4th June and jump to the conclusion that Arjuna was born on 4th June and therefore it is all a false cooked up story which cannot date back to 5,000 years ago or so. Another one is that, if you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution then how can a human being worship a monkey i.e. God Hanumana. We shall refrain from being victims of such manmade disasters, that are made with or without proper understandings and / or malice.

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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-Shree Hari-

I am so glad I asked this question regards the universes.(B.G. 2:46)

I have long held the view that according to how one observes anything, will give results according to the domain/method etc., and the conclusions may be different.(Light particles light waves, the classic paradox). To see the results as an absolute is the illusion.

Swami Vivekananda, dealt with the paradox of reality, in a book I readdecades ago, not in the solitary book I now own by Swami Vivekananda. Revertingto the paradox, the gist of what the Swami wrote, is, 'If one sees a ring ofripples in a pond, it could have been caused by a stone thrown into the pond, afish(or some such) jumping for insect and so on'. The point he made is, yes,cause = stone, effect = ripples, BUT beyond cause is THOUGHT.

I may see 'reality' differently from another soul, a well practiced yogi mayhave yet another view by means of vibhutis,(powers, to be surrendered), who isright, all and none. But in GODS TRUTH they all must be illusions.

One other thought dear Sadhaks, ones who meditate, have you ever touchedsomething beyond any means to describe; beyond the rational? (I certainly have alimited means of articulation, in such things).

The various learned comments sourcing from GITAJI 2:46, caused me to respond.