Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationhip with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Kargar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Kargar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. 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Guest guest Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations. This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality, speed and number of responses received on this topic were very impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj. Few more comments: 1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true Sanyasi, " a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon a dvestu na kanksati …). 2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas (austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot use to help us advance in our spiritual path. 3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our own past karmas. 4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues can be resolved as they affect us. 5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also, our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are doing their duty. 6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say, will give us nothing but pain to us and others. 7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and 10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving, understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the animals of opposite nature live together in peace. Few illustrations: a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways. Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so why get excited about something so temporary. b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues, sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed. c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri Ramakrishna Ram Ram Humble pranams, Madan Kaura ------------------------------- Priy sadhak As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including " what you should do " to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God as son plays with parents. " Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram. " Thanx Raja Gurdasani ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Of the responses in favour of retirement/sanyaas , Sadhaks should consider response of A V Raghunath. After having rendered self less service to the immediate family and THEREBY- ONLY thereby -gaining dispassion- vairagya or finding one self " in nothing left to be done for family " state, if at all one has liking for retirement, then one should migrate to one's native place. After serving family, the next in line is " society " , you owe society a lot in fact. There you will find ample opportunities of redeeming subtle debts and becoming totally debt free. If such a native place is a small village/town- it is wonderful. There one should indulge in cow service. Service to the down trodden. Service to the elders... And slowly, slowly by rendering selfless service lead the self to egolessness/minelessness. However there are considerations of one's present state while contemplating. It should NEVER be out of bitterness or anger or frustration or helplessness or hatred or rejection or to teach lesson to some one or out of the fact that you have been defeated or self criticism or self perceived failure. NEVER. It should emerge out of peace generating naturally in you of having lived a life of Karma Yogi ( Household, Grihastha) for say 25/35 years and out of the fact that by and large your house hold duties have come to an end and you are not having any " real dependents " upon you- like old parents or wife. So long old parents are alive, if there are capable brothers, and parents give consent, then it is another matter but otherwise, the real God is in their feet only. As regards better half, an option and always guilt free option should be made honourably available to her. Live with your children if you want, live with me the way I do or live alone in the home if you like and are comfortable - do whenever you want whatever out of the three options. Handover every worldly possession to her gracefully , as a matter of duty and live your life with bare minimum ( out of a portion of say pension or some fixed income) . Total freedom should be given ti her respectfully with access of yourself always available to her- unconditionally - till you breath your last. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations. This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality, speed and number of responses received on this topic were very impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj. Few more comments: 1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true Sanyasi, " a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon a dvestu na kanksati …). 2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas (austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot use to help us advance in our spiritual path. 3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our own past karmas. 4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues can be resolved as they affect us. 5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also, our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are doing their duty. 6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say, will give us nothing but pain to us and others. 7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and 10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving, understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the animals of opposite nature live together in peace. Few illustrations: a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways. Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so why get excited about something so temporary. b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues, sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed. c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri Ramakrishna Ram Ram Humble pranams, Madan Kaura ------------------------------- Priy sadhak As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including " what you should do " to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God as son plays with parents. " Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram. " Thanx Raja Gurdasani ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Sadhaks I read with interest the deliberations on this Satsanga web site. I genuinely feel this is one of the best satsanga forum. I have questions on this retirement issue. What about females? Can they also consider retirement from home and go to some ashram or secluded place and pursue spiritual goals? It is not that males only are sufferers. Females too tolerate injustices and domination. What are the views of Saints and Gita etc on the subject? Secondly, Mr Vyas has charted a course with amazing clarity on the subject of retirement. My question is why " accessible " ? How " mineness " can get eradicated when you are accessible to your family? How at the end you get egoless/minenessless? Does Sanyaas principles permit such course of action as suggested by Mr Vyas? Prepetina Gonsalves ------------------------------ Respected Vyas Ji, I fully agree and believe with all the four points given by you i.e. 1 The evil doer loses his capacity itself to do evil to you. 2 Evil Doer will repent. Will cry. Will suffer. 3. Nothing wrong will happen to you 4 As against one person doing evil to you, many others will come to your rescue. I have always believed this world works on the principle that every action has an equal and opposite reaction i.e. whatever we do comes back to us sometime , somewhere , somehow. But Why then the evil is increasing and goodness is decreasing in this world. We find people instead of being selfless are becoming selfish by each passing generations, moral values are going down, educated people (like Mr. Sarphod ) are questioning the existence of GOD , all around us we find more evil than goodness (Mr Sarphod, i am not referring to you as evil but people in general including myself) ) . Anger, jealousy, greed these negative feelings are more prominent in people these days (I don't categorize people as good or bad , I believe nobody in today's time including myself is 100 % GOOD OR 100% BAD )but the negative traits are increasing by the day. How can we then say that evil doer loses his capacity itself to do evil. Could it be because when our evil deeds come back to us we are not able to relate them with our wrong doings done earlier and instead name them as BAD KISMET . Vandana ------------------------------- Hari Om Of the responses in favour of retirement/sanyaas , Sadhaks should consider response of A V Raghunath. After having rendered self less service to the immediate family and THEREBY- ONLY thereby -gaining dispassion- vairagya or finding one self " in nothing left to be done for family " state, if at all one has liking for retirement, then one should migrate to one's native place. After serving family, the next in line is " society " , you owe society a lot in fact. There you will find ample opportunities of redeeming subtle debts and becoming totally debt free. If such a native place is a small village/town- it is wonderful. There one should indulge in cow service. Service to the down trodden. Service to the elders... And slowly, slowly by rendering selfless service lead the self to egolessness/minelessness. However there are considerations of one's present state while contemplating. It should NEVER be out of bitterness or anger or frustration or helplessness or hatred or rejection or to teach lesson to some one or out of the fact that you have been defeated or self criticism or self perceived failure. NEVER. It should emerge out of peace generating naturally in you of having lived a life of Karma Yogi ( Household, Grihastha) for say 25/35 years and out of the fact that by and large your house hold duties have come to an end and you are not having any " real dependents " upon you- like old parents or wife. So long old parents are alive, if there are capable brothers, and parents give consent, then it is another matter but otherwise, the real God is in their feet only. As regards better half, an option and always guilt free option should be made honourably available to her. Live with your children if you want, live with me the way I do or live alone in the home if you like and are comfortable - do whenever you want whatever out of the three options. Handover every worldly possession to her gracefully , as a matter of duty and live your life with bare minimum ( out of a portion of say pension or some fixed income) . Total freedom should be given ti her respectfully with access of yourself always available to her- unconditionally - till you breath your last. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations. This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality, speed and number of responses received on this topic were very impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj. Few more comments: 1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true Sanyasi, " a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon a dvestu na kanksati …). 2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas (austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot use to help us advance in our spiritual path. 3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our own past karmas. 4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues can be resolved as they affect us. 5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also, our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are doing their duty. 6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say, will give us nothing but pain to us and others. 7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and 10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving, understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the animals of opposite nature live together in peace. Few illustrations: a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways. Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so why get excited about something so temporary. b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues, sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed. c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri Ramakrishna Ram Ram Humble pranams, Madan Kaura ------------------------------- Priy sadhak As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including " what you should do " to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God as son plays with parents. " Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram. " Thanx Raja Gurdasani ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Sadaks, Ref: Prepetina Gonsalves. Woman are said to be behind every successful man. That is because their love and tendering care gives man strong power. Besides woman such as Sant Sakubai, Meera Bai, Sant Anusuya, Sati Savitri and many more did what man saints never did. They could stop revolution of earth, they saw Yama and got life back, Sakubai rose from death, Meera` s poision Sri Krishna drank, for Padmavati wife of sant Jai Dev who wrote Geetha Govind, God Jaganath appeared first to Padmavathi. Why, my wife S.Danalakshme aged 59 has little rheumatic complaints and sicknesses. In spite of that she prepared food for Sri Krishna limping with pain, cleans the pooja room with great difficulty, garlands Sri Krishna neatly and patiently. But she does much little meditation than me. But God approves her love more than mine several folds. We are in Chennai. She predicts things that happens. She told me about Tusnami 2 days earlier. So woman can be much Godlier than men. Even many Sanyasins had Ego and mineness. These can be eradicated by constant sadana only and God` s blessings. Sant Ekanath has said, To day is your gift my Bagavan, tomorrow I do not know what, my day ends tomorrow nothing (my family, wealth, people around, all the mine and myself) comes with me. Oh Bagavan you will only come that last breath, I know. This one should remember most of the day, then mine will disappear. Sanyasin Dharma says Upanashids, that once Sanyas taken, a mistake even by mind done, there is NO prayachit (No excuse) Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- My dear elder brother Sharma ji, Hari Om, If ever in Rishikesh I suggest wonderful satsang opportunity. Hari Om. Raj Kumar -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's messages in the last year, more clearly in the last month were " Wherever you are, there Paramatma IS " .. there is no need to go anywhere. He specifically did not recommend females to leave their household for spiritual pursuits. Meera Das Ram Ram Attached is an old sadhak message posting when someone asked him this question (even though more focused on younger females, it is equally applicable) - Question: Girls are leaving their home for pursuing a spiritual path. They are not wanting to get married. Swamiji, what is your opinion regarding this? Swamiji: If you get true association it is OK, but in this day and age I have not seen such true associations (satsang). They should therefore stay at home and do satsang. These days I do not encourage women to not get married, because they are not able to get true, good spiritual associations. Question: What should they do, stay at home and do their spiritual practices? Swamiji: Yes they can stay at home (parent's home, brother's home) and do satsang. I am unable to see associations that are true. In this day and age, it is very difficult to find. If you have true and ardent desire for God, going outside to some ashram, some spiritual place to attain spiritual enlightenment, is an impossible task. Stay at home, with parents, with brother, under their shelter, then it is possible. One has to decide for them selves, but for females this is very difficult in this day and age. Unfortunatly, it is even difficult of males as well. True good associations are simply not available in these times. If there is a deep longing within, many good spiritual practices are available to attain one's salvation. One must meet a good supporting spouse. Having the aim, " I want to attain my salvation, " that is the key. This single pointed aim is more important than anything else. It is only possible if the determination is strong. I tell these things with great vigor and force, but people are simply not paying attention. In this day and age, without getting married, females cannot easily remain safe from the world. By having an ardent desire for God, they can attain God Realization by being at home. In fact, with great ease one can realize God. Become ready ! Become alert ! When your direction is not clear, when your aim is not clear, how can God Realization be possible? With a true heart you are not desiring God. Even among those that are here, there are only a handful that I see that have a true desire for God. It requires a conviction such as - " even if I die I will not commit sin. " True spiritual guides are simply not seen these days. Very few are there, that are telling the true essence. If you take complete refuge in God, He will guide you. There will be no obstacles. From Discourse by Swami Ramsukhdasji in Hindi on Aug 28, 2000 at 8:30 am -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhaks I read with interest the deliberations on this Satsanga web site. I genuinely feel this is one of the best satsanga forum. I have questions on this retirement issue. What about females? Can they also consider retirement from home and go to some ashram or secluded place and pursue spiritual goals? It is not that males only are sufferers. Females too tolerate injustices and domination. What are the views of Saints and Gita etc on the subject? Secondly, Mr Vyas has charted a course with amazing clarity on the subject of retirement. My question is why " accessible " ? How " mineness " can get eradicated when you are accessible to your family? How at the end you get egoless/minenessless? Does Sanyaas principles permit such course of action as suggested by Mr Vyas? Prepetina Gonsalves ------------------------------ Hari Om Of the responses in favour of retirement/sanyaas , Sadhaks should consider response of A V Raghunath. After having rendered self less service to the immediate family and THEREBY- ONLY thereby -gaining dispassion- vairagya or finding one self " in nothing left to be done for family " state, if at all one has liking for retirement, then one should migrate to one's native place. After serving family, the next in line is " society " , you owe society a lot in fact. There you will find ample opportunities of redeeming subtle debts and becoming totally debt free. If such a native place is a small village/town- it is wonderful. There one should indulge in cow service. Service to the down trodden. Service to the elders... And slowly, slowly by rendering selfless service lead the self to egolessness/minelessness. However there are considerations of one's present state while contemplating. It should NEVER be out of bitterness or anger or frustration or helplessness or hatred or rejection or to teach lesson to some one or out of the fact that you have been defeated or self criticism or self perceived failure. NEVER. It should emerge out of peace generating naturally in you of having lived a life of Karma Yogi ( Household, Grihastha) for say 25/35 years and out of the fact that by and large your house hold duties have come to an end and you are not having any " real dependents " upon you- like old parents or wife. So long old parents are alive, if there are capable brothers, and parents give consent, then it is another matter but otherwise, the real God is in their feet only. As regards better half, an option and always guilt free option should be made honourably available to her. Live with your children if you want, live with me the way I do or live alone in the home if you like and are comfortable - do whenever you want whatever out of the three options. Handover every worldly possession to her gracefully , as a matter of duty and live your life with bare minimum ( out of a portion of say pension or some fixed income) . Total freedom should be given ti her respectfully with access of yourself always available to her- unconditionally - till you breath your last. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations. This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality, speed and number of responses received on this topic were very impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj. Few more comments: 1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true Sanyasi, " a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon a dvestu na kanksati …). 2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas (austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot use to help us advance in our spiritual path. 3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our own past karmas. 4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues can be resolved as they affect us. 5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also, our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are doing their duty. 6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say, will give us nothing but pain to us and others. 7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and 10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving, understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the animals of opposite nature live together in peace. Few illustrations: a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways. Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so why get excited about something so temporary. b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues, sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed. c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri Ramakrishna Ram Ram Humble pranams, Madan Kaura ------------------------------- Priy sadhak As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including " what you should do " to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God as son plays with parents. " Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram. " Thanx Raja Gurdasani ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram We are clearing up pending queue this week due to significant back log. You will receive few extra emails next couple of days. Only reply if essential point not covered by other sadhaks From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------------------------- Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Regarding females taking sanyaas/ stepping out of the home - Swamiji does not clearly to that. Undoubtedly, he does not like that. Matter ends there. Mira Dassji has precisely brought out a comprehensive reply. Nothing more can be added. Reg Males - let me clarify that I have narrated what exactly I would do. In fact, it is not sanyaas, it is retirement - a vaanprashtha type of state - for household between 50 and 75 years of age. In that age ideally one should be going for a sadhana to eliminate ego and mineness slowly, definitely and totally. That can be only by " service " . A household considering retirement then must always be " accessible " because his intention is not to give pains, worries and uncertainty to his family members, parents or wife. He does not hate them or reject them. There is no bitterness in him. Rather there is a preparation in him to consider all of them as Vasudevah. VASUDEVAH SARVAM. He seeks higher sadhana without causing any hurt to them. He always remains ready and helpful to them in all circumstances. He knows for sure that " any selfless service destroys mineness. " Hence his accessibilty does not strengthen mineness. It destroys the mineness- because his " bhava " or intention is to serve to them and to all and sundry always- without expecting anything in return. Before leaving , he has already served them considerably and wholeheartedly.. Further remaining " accessible " provides him and all his family members peace, harmony and respect. It is a conscious effort for withdrawal and betterment. His total handing over to them or to his wife of his worldly possessions and continuous availabilty of his body for them makes his service to them- total and complete. Any one who simply elopes is not taking retirement. He is taking sanyaas. The rules of sanyaas are very strict. The punishment for errors are very serious. There is no need to do that in today's world. It may hurt those who remain behind and you lose opportunities of continuous service to them and seeing God in them . Rules do not provide for your return- come what may. Their memories may haunt you and snatch away your peace. Where is the need for such risky course? A retired life, with a peaceful and satisfied household , is only ideal. It is an option to be taken only by that person who has destroyed already considerable mineness by serving family members and thereby peace has arisen in him and a satisfaction generated independence has arisen in his immediate family members.. Else he must remain in house and keep serving, serving and serving immediate family members, parents, wife, elders, children till he develops peaceful dispassion. Between the age of 50 and 75 this course is logical. If both parents or any one of them is still alive, you may take them with you to your native place and whole heartedly serve them- as you serve God. Old people normally like to remain in their native places. The dust of native place is dear to all. Your wife can also if she so wants remain with you and live a contented pious sadhana life. She can spent as much time as she wants with her children and with you as and when she wills. Then service to cow. Then to society at large, to the elders, to suhasinis ( sisters , daughters from various relations ) - all expectationless service. You will keep becoming more and more peaceful, more and more devotional, more and more lover of God. All this- without any past memories haunting you ! You can focus on total elimination of vices from your conduct- mind, speech and body in a peaceful manner. I would arrange for my own sustenance before I retire. Question of remaining dependent on any one for anything does not arise. If I don't have that provision, I would strive first to do that arrangement- financials etc. Service destroys mamata (mineness) - it is a law. If You have destroyed " mineness " fully , you instantly become egoless - it is a law. A Karma Yogi does that. He destroys mamata first. Ego then eliminates automatically. If you have destroyed ego fully, you instantly become " mamtaless " ( mineless)- it is a law. A Jnana Yogi does that. He destroys ego (me) first. His " mamata " (mine) then gets destroyed automatically. In Bhakti Yoga God Himself destroys your mamata and ego. You become free always. As simple as that! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadaks, Ref: Prepetina Gonsalves. Woman are said to be behind every successful man. That is because their love and tendering care gives man strong power. Besides woman such as Sant Sakubai, Meera Bai, Sant Anusuya, Sati Savitri and many more did what man saints never did. They could stop revolution of earth, they saw Yama and got life back, Sakubai rose from death, Meera` s poision Sri Krishna drank, for Padmavati wife of sant Jai Dev who wrote Geetha Govind, God Jaganath appeared first to Padmavathi. Why, my wife S.Danalakshme aged 59 has little rheumatic complaints and sicknesses. In spite of that she prepared food for Sri Krishna limping with pain, cleans the pooja room with great difficulty, garlands Sri Krishna neatly and patiently. But she does much little meditation than me. But God approves her love more than mine several folds. We are in Chennai. She predicts things that happens. She told me about Tusnami 2 days earlier. So woman can be much Godlier than men. Even many Sanyasins had Ego and mineness. These can be eradicated by constant sadana only and God` s blessings. Sant Ekanath has said, To day is your gift my Bagavan, tomorrow I do not know what, my day ends tomorrow nothing (my family, wealth, people around, all the mine and myself) comes with me. Oh Bagavan you will only come that last breath, I know. This one should remember most of the day, then mine will disappear. Sanyasin Dharma says Upanashids, that once Sanyas taken, a mistake even by mind done, there is NO prayachit (No excuse) Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- My dear elder brother Sharma ji, Hari Om, If ever in Rishikesh I suggest wonderful satsang opportunity. Hari Om. Raj Kumar -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's messages in the last year, more clearly in the last month were " Wherever you are, there Paramatma IS " .. there is no need to go anywhere. He specifically did not recommend females to leave their household for spiritual pursuits. Meera Das Ram Ram Attached is an old sadhak message posting when someone asked him this question (even though more focused on younger females, it is equally applicable) - Question: Girls are leaving their home for pursuing a spiritual path. They are not wanting to get married. Swamiji, what is your opinion regarding this? Swamiji: If you get true association it is OK, but in this day and age I have not seen such true associations (satsang). They should therefore stay at home and do satsang. These days I do not encourage women to not get married, because they are not able to get true, good spiritual associations. Question: What should they do, stay at home and do their spiritual practices? Swamiji: Yes they can stay at home (parent's home, brother's home) and do satsang. I am unable to see associations that are true. In this day and age, it is very difficult to find. If you have true and ardent desire for God, going outside to some ashram, some spiritual place to attain spiritual enlightenment, is an impossible task. Stay at home, with parents, with brother, under their shelter, then it is possible. One has to decide for them selves, but for females this is very difficult in this day and age. Unfortunatly, it is even difficult of males as well. True good associations are simply not available in these times. If there is a deep longing within, many good spiritual practices are available to attain one's salvation. One must meet a good supporting spouse. Having the aim, " I want to attain my salvation, " that is the key. This single pointed aim is more important than anything else. It is only possible if the determination is strong. I tell these things with great vigor and force, but people are simply not paying attention. In this day and age, without getting married, females cannot easily remain safe from the world. By having an ardent desire for God, they can attain God Realization by being at home. In fact, with great ease one can realize God. Become ready ! Become alert ! When your direction is not clear, when your aim is not clear, how can God Realization be possible? With a true heart you are not desiring God. Even among those that are here, there are only a handful that I see that have a true desire for God. It requires a conviction such as - " even if I die I will not commit sin. " True spiritual guides are simply not seen these days. Very few are there, that are telling the true essence. If you take complete refuge in God, He will guide you. There will be no obstacles. From Discourse by Swami Ramsukhdasji in Hindi on Aug 28, 2000 at 8:30 am -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhaks I read with interest the deliberations on this Satsanga web site. I genuinely feel this is one of the best satsanga forum. I have questions on this retirement issue. What about females? Can they also consider retirement from home and go to some ashram or secluded place and pursue spiritual goals? It is not that males only are sufferers. Females too tolerate injustices and domination. What are the views of Saints and Gita etc on the subject? Secondly, Mr Vyas has charted a course with amazing clarity on the subject of retirement. My question is why " accessible " ? How " mineness " can get eradicated when you are accessible to your family? How at the end you get egoless/minenessless? Does Sanyaas principles permit such course of action as suggested by Mr Vyas? Prepetina Gonsalves ------------------------------ Hari Om Of the responses in favour of retirement/sanyaas , Sadhaks should consider response of A V Raghunath. After having rendered self less service to the immediate family and THEREBY- ONLY thereby -gaining dispassion- vairagya or finding one self " in nothing left to be done for family " state, if at all one has liking for retirement, then one should migrate to one's native place. After serving family, the next in line is " society " , you owe society a lot in fact. There you will find ample opportunities of redeeming subtle debts and becoming totally debt free. If such a native place is a small village/town- it is wonderful. There one should indulge in cow service. Service to the down trodden. Service to the elders... And slowly, slowly by rendering selfless service lead the self to egolessness/minelessness. However there are considerations of one's present state while contemplating. It should NEVER be out of bitterness or anger or frustration or helplessness or hatred or rejection or to teach lesson to some one or out of the fact that you have been defeated or self criticism or self perceived failure. NEVER. It should emerge out of peace generating naturally in you of having lived a life of Karma Yogi ( Household, Grihastha) for say 25/35 years and out of the fact that by and large your house hold duties have come to an end and you are not having any " real dependents " upon you- like old parents or wife. So long old parents are alive, if there are capable brothers, and parents give consent, then it is another matter but otherwise, the real God is in their feet only. As regards better half, an option and always guilt free option should be made honourably available to her. Live with your children if you want, live with me the way I do or live alone in the home if you like and are comfortable - do whenever you want whatever out of the three options. Handover every worldly possession to her gracefully , as a matter of duty and live your life with bare minimum ( out of a portion of say pension or some fixed income) . Total freedom should be given ti her respectfully with access of yourself always available to her- unconditionally - till you breath your last. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations. This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality, speed and number of responses received on this topic were very impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj. Few more comments: 1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true Sanyasi, " a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon a dvestu na kanksati …). 2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas (austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot use to help us advance in our spiritual path. 3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our own past karmas. 4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues can be resolved as they affect us. 5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also, our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are doing their duty. 6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say, will give us nothing but pain to us and others. 7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and 10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving, understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the animals of opposite nature live together in peace. Few illustrations: a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways. Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so why get excited about something so temporary. b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues, sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed. c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri Ramakrishna Ram Ram Humble pranams, Madan Kaura ------------------------------- Priy sadhak As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including " what you should do " to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God as son plays with parents. " Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram. " Thanx Raja Gurdasani ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Varun ji, I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from my office and will continue to remain with the family. When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding to sell it to the butcher and get some money. Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that " at least, the hubby is at home " Her " God puja " consists of single point " sakaam bhavâ " that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD). When I use the word " creepers " for her and other members, my aim was not " creep " but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple and honest persons " not because of some desire/lust, because as the Swamiji mentions " underground water is everywhere, but our purpose is served only by the handpump/well " Life so far, in family context, has been a " Tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing " , borrowing from Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper " again borrowing from T.S. Eliot. I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something else " when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a purgatory " no one knows better than I do. I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh again. Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but have made me to drink it. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Dear sadaks, To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again. This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is like sugar. Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so much about surrender earlier. One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past, present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be. Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route. Shri Bhagawaan has also said: Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24 " Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act accordingly in this world. " (Gita 6:24) Respectful regards, Dr. Ranjeet Singh. -------------------------------- Hare Krishna Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one else. But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your inclination towards spirituality. Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused. And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi?? Lord says " Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His sankalpas(thoughts of the world) " (Gita 6.2) Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation is to be freed from worldly thoughts.] Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in Swamiji's books TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and break your mineness. That's it. If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh, Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all what you said here and they will guide you surely. Thanks, Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma, RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE. We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother (ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad Gita. Sincerely, A.V.Raghunath - One has to go within and find the true self...... one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to experience the true self.... Understanding is whole thing..... Sushil Jain PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Some final thoughts on the subject: 1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty will then hurt you more. 2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make surroundings really strong. It is contagious. 3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is independent or not. AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is perceived as poisonous snake. Don't invite disrespect for you. 4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law. 5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need for the same irrespective of your presence at that time. 6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are not " actually " yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they are not " yours " the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts you spiritually. Before that it is " selfish " - arising out of mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee is " actually " not mine. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B MY respects to all in this foorum.... I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed! One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses. Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and he told her, " tea, or me " ......she made the choice. So, there is definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to tolerate only to a certain extent. Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come to the level of " atmarama " finding pleasure in the self alone. This level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide you if you sincerely cry out to Him. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Finally a short practical event from every day life: You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will call that payment as " donation " . So will God. You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as donation. Nor will God. Why? Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you renounced. What was the difference between the two payments then? This is question ! Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be " mine " while paying. But you considered your son to be " mine " while paying. What else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma and its results. If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering, inside your heart, her to be " mine " - Law of Karma will classify the entire amount as " donation " . If not- bondage! How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Hare Krishna As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone. Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him, sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity. He never sported attitude of " I can improve others. I am more knowledgeable than others etc " . Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment. Hare Krishna, Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya ! Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact " Et tu Brutus " I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------ Dear Sir, Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the uplift of down trodden and poor people. Best regards, Sivaraman.V ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or salt from which ever side or way you " consume " it is sorrowful. (DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer? How to pass with distinction marks from this examination? Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that " talking " doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do ! I oppose bitterly this " mind " only because it always suggests what we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it exists in " nothingness " only- past/future! But from ever existing " self " point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask you to drop reliance on mind. Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due course is miraculous and unbelievable !! What is the result ? Result is that " dukhalayam " gets converted practically into " God " Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary but my experience has taught me that it is true. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- Dear Sadhak Dear Suresh Sharma I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you call him Thanks G K Agrawal ----------------------------- Hare Krsna Respected Suresh ji I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 " Ananyas cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham " Hare Krsna " srivally k " ------------------------------ Hari Om Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? " I don't judge " ! How can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are His children only - nothing more! Consider the " certainty " flowing out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you are " pure " (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual reconciliations take place- notwithstanding culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar Star! " My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! " That is real " advice " ! That is what is " warranted " !! You can't be " Judge " in this world made by Paramatma !! That is " Satsanga " ! That is " nectar " ! That is " Divine " ! This is " Mantra " ! This is " guidance " ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of asking you to " believe me " because you addressed the Question to me, too ) That propels you to shed your " ego " ,your " intellect " , your 'mind, " .your " " mamata " (mineness) , your " likings " ( Raag) and your " dislikings " (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of your " antahkarana " - by not acknowledging the same to be " yours " ! That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is reality. That is " SAT " within the meaning of Gitaji. That is " viveka " (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji ! This is " Geeta Talk Group " ! Most certainly this is " Humanity " ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, I don't see why you have to go any where. If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years, just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable with. You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words. Share your insight with others, who may be interested. That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not have thought of such things, but not averse to it. Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty. You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh. Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have internally withdrawn. Enjoy KST Koti Sreekrishna --------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and you can think of joining us . --Prem Prem Kumar Khullar --------------------------- Dear Shashikala bahan, Et tu Brutus. ______________ Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, Much help indeed. ----------------------------- Dear Mike, Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha bharos Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced Hanuman that without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints) __________________ Dear Pratap Bhatt ji, Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I know the truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’ ------------------------- Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan, Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly. -------------------------- Dear Raj Kumar ji, You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness. This forum has really helped me. Krishna’s grace †" unbounded and all around. ________________________ Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand, Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise. -------------------------- Dear Bandook Singh ji, I will continue my duties towards all †" vasudhaiv kutumbkam. ----------------------------- Dear Vyas ji, Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi. Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang, meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner. Kindest regards, Suresh C Sharma ================================================================= Dear Sadhak, The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for God realization- 1. Free from reponsibilies 2. Free from worldly attachments 3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own strength So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be free(jeevanmukta) In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization) not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge, devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only. With lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ----------------------------- Dear Sureshji, Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua the Nazarene, " a prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house " . I just recently made a comment on send to entire group at another time) Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you understand. Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin, if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find 'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart. It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable, borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended). I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen ,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the poor. My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am sure of this! Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as one without hate, one who will help when there is need. I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many, many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not? In passing I am retired but am a very busy person. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ---------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you, particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are right in their own rights, but to think " they are wrong and therefore, you have nothing to do with them " may be the the wrong thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to possess another human being be that person your spouse, children, friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next step. Namaskar Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, " Loka Sheman Vahamiyam " . Means HE takes care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc. Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk), see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in meditation. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan -------------------------- My respectable Sharma ji, I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least 20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the book " Geeta Probodhini " , which influenced my life, greatly). Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the same social situations as has been described by you and the same thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for the so called " serenity under a Banyan Tree " but found it no where. My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot be avoided. Now comes the burning question, then " Where to Go " ? My dear brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole- heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting, whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office or at home. Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He will come to your rescue and make the way. If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity. Ram Ram Raj Kumar Dear Sharmaji, I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is GEETHA OR DHARMA. With kind regards. captain Johann samuhanand -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe Guru! She should become like a " Gandhari " – is it? If children get happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy ! Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good – understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN " – Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo Jee !! Boliye Sir ! Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son. Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties. Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY OF LIVING " !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at that age! " Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers " !! These are the words you used for God's children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God – don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita. Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS? She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque. OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam " ( referred by you) while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam putra daar griha dishu " ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13). Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you. NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ? Keep in touch Jee ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes, tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within- Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only. This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice. Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of others. Regards Bandook Singh ------------------------------ Hari Om My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio. But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint, frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status, expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you there? Believe me – they will ! Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following. 1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all " . Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi " . ( My earlier suggestion was reg Karma Yoga). Start concentrating on " self " . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " ( Dislikings) from your conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put " Equanimity " in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs Sharma likes " golgappes " ? According to you she should eat only what you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body? No ! You need a lot to do with your own reference! Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God and ONLY God is mine. " Never give up your job – else there is a danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE , MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to present state of " Vairagya " ( Dispassion) only because you served in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc. Concentrate more on that !! There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a right, divine forum. Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them to be " yours " . The moment you really believe that they are not yours, they will become " Godly " for you ! Try this !! All dirt is there in " mineness " only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB ------------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Respected All, I am greatful for the guidance. Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc. make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more interested in the gifts they get " we the gift-givers turn them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my wife for outings because she is fond of eating " golgappe " etc and above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees. Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that is their " prarabdha " . Should I continue to be in the family to nourish the " rajsik and tamsik " creepers (though all this is " vasudevam sarvamiti " )? It would be a pleasure should I become manure for any " satvik " plant. Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of the saints " bodhyantah parasparam " . Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since 1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah " . Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and continuous ˜darshanâ " of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam " Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your ˜bhabhi " is interested in money and will be happy to get my post- retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs 15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most. I do not think in this modern society my family members, present and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma " Let them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry David Thoreau). Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort of " sarvaarambh prityagi " . Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and something within me says " get out of this dirty consumerist social life " . Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes, you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai " Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance, practical and yet spiritual. Still, I am a little confused. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- Sir, You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go, what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve. Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the situation only control is to develop over your mind. Love, krishna das. -------------------------------- If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can help us to help the needy children for their education, health and mind. Padmanabhan Sundaram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhak, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.) yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for liberation/mukti. Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire- Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him. Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga) Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal. Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16) The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation... So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the unreal is leaving you every moment. Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 & 14) Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam) Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ? Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ? Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying to find Him outside) with lots of Love, a sadhika Sadhna Karigar ------------------------------- Dear Suresh Sharma ji, WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs. READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH ' CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be . SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER. LOVE PREM KHULLAR -------------------------------- Dear Sharmaji, After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after that. Regards, In Shirdi Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavanmiriyala Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Dear Shashikala ji, Im a bachelor of 27yrs age, not interested in marriage. You gave suggestion to Sharmaji, to ask Bhabiji (Mrs. Sharama) to decide what to do and no argument are supposed to be there. but for an unmarried person like me what suggestion you will give to take-up sanyasa. I will take my parents permission and will join in sanyasa.. what suggestion will you give me? I do not want to finish my life in middle where ever I want. and i strongly believe, there is a meaning for this life. so I would like to wait for my turn and till that time i will be there with a guru who can help me to achieve wisdom of god. and for me, there is no other way to stay in this materialistic world. If anybody knows any guru, who can help me, please give me details to approach and to achieve my wish. Jai ShreeRam, pavanmiriyala. Respected Vyasji and others, I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over. I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Can you kindly guide me where to go? Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Jai Hanuman No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This " more or less over " with reference to " duties " of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your last words - " where to go " !! But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about the same! WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing " Raag " ( Likings) and " Dvesha " (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/ thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of past, present and future! Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your role in this Divine Lila ! By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No arguments on this. Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only grand parents can do that- not the parents! No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do ! We will discuss if you actively participate ! Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death " . Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly serving all people around you with all the things you have - without expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !! Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish any " new " connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing- for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on conscience. KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR ! NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !! Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life) wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends ( likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) ! That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement ! Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly. In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you have come to the point of saying, " Where do I go from here " ..... indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally accepts, " I have no business in this world save and except to live for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita to others. " I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance, and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw, east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than, almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to purify the atmosphere. respectfully, Mahalaksmi Dasi -------------------------------- Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of spiritual people. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is something that is useful to you - " Brother, wherever you are, remain there as is, always " longing and desiring " , then your work will be done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense longing) works ! Very well! Vineet Sarvottam ------------------------------ Hari Om Dear Shri Sharmaji At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7 " work. Consider after having fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities, married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage, all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of 1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that " they are not you/yours/for you " 2 Those for whom you have no mineness/attachment. That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she wants you to continue working. If she says even " may be " or " as you think fit " - work! Work so that you may never seek economic dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)! Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God whereever you get engaged in. Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed. But keep a thought burning inside you - " I am of God, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine " . Don't expect anything from anybody- even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you should. All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always. This is one way. Another totally different way - next time. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Great idea!!!!! I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very deeply by the books of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some thoughts on some projects Satya Kalra -------------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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