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All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone? If Rare, why Waste My Time?

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Guest guest
Posted

Dear Sadhaks

 

Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

 

 

------------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Sadhaks

 

Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

--------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Sadhaks

 

Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Dear Sadhaks

 

Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhaks

 

It was my great fortune that I came in touch with this forum. I will

never write again reg wastage of time. It was my error. But I am

confused with contradictory advice. Shri Sarvottamji says " disown

the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use the mind and remember from

mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I disown the mind or use it? Is

it possible to remember from mind? Did Arjuna in the last chapter,

remember through use of mind or self? Please provide me with clear

answer. I am a beginner.

 

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwan.

 

MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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Dear Sadhaks

 

Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

------------------------------

NEW QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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Posted

FOLLOW-UP NOTE:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality. But how " true bhajan " can be

done only by " self " ? Also Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily

have doubts " - how belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where

is belief? If there is belief, how there can be doubt? Kindly

enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from all of

you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind away while

practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

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Posted

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom. Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated- Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer " ( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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Posted

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PREVIOUS POSTING

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani.

 

 

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

 

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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your posting. Also, there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow

sadhaks in this spiritual learning and sharing. Gita Talk Moderators

 

------------------------------

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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Ram Ram

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------------------------------

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way.

Most common notion of belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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shree hari

ram ram

SADHAK'S PLEASE REVIEW GITA TALK GUIDELINES BEFORE EACH

POSTING. (scroll to the end). Following points are being violated

1) Brevity (half page) 2) Reference to Gitaji to substantiate response 3) Many

personal opinions. Due to more activity and postings, moderator will use own

discretion and cut content deemed not directly relevant to question.

MOST POSTINGS WERE CUT IN HALF. TO AVOID MODERATORS CUTTING RELAVANT TEXT,

PLEASE KEEP MESSAGES CONCISE.Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof. Swamiji many

times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints and Shrimad Bhagavatam

called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava " Bhaiyya, not the specific

words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor Tamma (spoiled

younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has no shame …

he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he even pretends that he

is providing me the solution to get rid of him as well! … I may have to wage a

war against this fellow … but I still want this fellow by my side … On one side

weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving up on him does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really lucky there

… or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my filth

truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to reveal my filth to

its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening … the

awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya through

his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he is bound to vanish

when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing but Him … once he is

gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and Moksha … as

far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth back … Please dare me or

beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond mind and

Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief exists. A child also

confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is not there, then belief

also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna say in 7:21?

He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that stablisation ? Removal of doubts

from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !! And that it can exist

without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief " or " true

bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to stress the difference

between what is commonly understood and what is reality. No body in reality puts

the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if we want to realise

Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the shelter of inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep freezer " - it is

not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for Paramatma

realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle therefore it should be

renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that we are

addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual significance to help sadhaks

in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu Scriptures, in Gita the terms

have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha " or " nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt? Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who

considers - " Vasudevah Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures

wrong? Quote a single scripture where it is stated that belief

cannot exist without doubt? What about Gita? Where does it say that

belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way.

Most common notion of belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very

loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj !

Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME

OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking

a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like

a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here

self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He accepts

suggestion of mind

that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom.

Self

becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues

to be of

World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant.

Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while

continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj

Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time

being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN

GITA " PRACTICE " HAS

BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog.

What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but

mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-

it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji?

What about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively

upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God. Simple formula:-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

 

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva

madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

FROM MODERATOR: Dalmiaji, Kindly substantiate your response with

Gita Shloka /

other scriptures. Thank you, Gita Talk Moderator

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

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shree hari

ram ram

We now consider these questions CLOSED for further deliberation.

By the grace of God, may we with an open mind / heart, accept and live these

divine pearls of wisdom, that have come directly from God Himself. Thank you all

for this divine ahuti.

 

Please see questions and responses from various sadhaks summarized by Moderators

and forgive us for any omissions / incompletness / and length of summary.

 

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people like me ? If

it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time

in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word “rare”. God has said he is Sulabh (easily

attainable) whereas devotee is “durlabh” rarity.

" All is God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest form, like a

child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing but " waste our time " . When

something is really not mine, what right do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It

is self-importance only. Unless conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL. Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be instantly wiped

out when we become God’s. Mine-ness with God is key, thereafter after everything

is automatic. There is only One, Only Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar

Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required. Believe in

yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that is well spent. Let

there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let there be one occupation only -

service to the supreme personality of godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded

by the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add

" Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want “Vasudeva Sarvam” It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak Sanjivani. It

is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad, inert) and instantly you

will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none have succeeded so far in controlling

the mind, therefore throw in dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita Chp 6. Mind is

an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is difficult to remove, and

also helpful in digging out the filth, by being a reflecting mirror. I need this

fellow till he becomes the Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self

out of ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all eyes

(Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized by body, mind,

intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient that is beyond nature (Gita

15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita verses. Realization is thru’ renunciation of

BMI. Stop using Mind at all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your

conscience, on inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that are

continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) Vasudeva

Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma

yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to realization, one must assess based on own nature,

aptitude and liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then “Nam Samaran” (rememberance of God). Do not be

complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realize

this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye meditation " to realize “All is God”

– Sahaj Sadhana” i.e. Father of world is beyond knowledge. Don’t wait see God

Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi (purification) see only

God, like seen in devotee’s stories – Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse

knowledge with knowing, (knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with

every breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all

is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate all to Supreme

Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord Krishna has blessed all

approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is

belief, how there can be doubt?

 

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what we have

other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt. Belief is when there

is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping into mother’s arms has no doubts

only faith. We are where our mind is and until curtain (mind) remains,

realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind. Gita 7:21

says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from shraddha. “Sthitosmi gat

sandeh… “ I am positioned in doubtlessness. Only way to God realization is

treating the dualities equally - faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On

must be free of biases. How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a

knowable object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of doubt will

arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only. Bhakti marg – no doubts.

there cannot be wrong in any words whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the “doer” and you belong to only God and God

is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God’s, thus become free of all

problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It

is where God appears sweet to you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from

inner sentiment, naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work

becomes God’s work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine):

" The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that lay

within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God, will

put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

 

 

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees.

In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and recollection of

divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava " Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !! And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality. No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha " or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers - " Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong? Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt? What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind ! again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter 6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do? Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated- Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

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shree hari

ram ram

 

YOU MAY RECEIVE A FEW ADDITIONAL POSTINGS TODAY, AS WE ARE CLEARING

UP PAST POSTINGS BEFORE AUTOMATIC DELETION BY SERVICE.

THIS OCCURS EVERY 3-4 WEEKS, SO PLEASE DO NOT BE ALARMED. GITA TALK

MODERATOR

----------------------------

 

We now consider these questions CLOSED for further deliberation.

By the grace of God, may we with an open mind / heart, accept and

live these divine pearls of wisdom, that have come directly from God

Himself. Thank you all for this divine ahuti.

 

Please see questions and responses from various sadhaks summarized

by Moderators and forgive us for any omissions / incompletness / and

length of summary.

 

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

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We now consider these questions CLOSED for further deliberation.

By the grace of God, may we with an open mind / heart, accept and

live these divine pearls of wisdom, that have come directly from God

Himself. Thank you all for this divine ahuti.

 

Please see questions and responses from various sadhaks summarized

by Moderators and forgive us for any omissions / incompletness / and

length of summary.

 

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Vasdev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

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PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Revisiting older topics to clear pending queue...See NEW POSTING

section.

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

--------------------------------

NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

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-------------------------------

NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean " to

know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads

to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.

The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:

One asks " what am I? " If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some

silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not

from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly

humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some

hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that

nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In

Swamiji's words, it is " I am not this, not that etc " . (Neti neti per

Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where " I " doesn't point

to anything objective! Because objects are not " me " , I, necessarily,

have to be subject!

Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the

desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be

anything mind knows, believes.

This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word

(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that

object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that

is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our

consciousness, including mind.

 

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?

if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say

who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!

Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound

by karmas, etc etc.

 

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all

knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure

Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent

Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification

with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says

Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new

Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

 

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world

in Freedom!

Namaskar...

Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that

we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being

permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the

impermanency/perishabilty !!

 

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,

starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,

spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,

though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM " goal rises in

Self !

 

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there

too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

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Posted

NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Encouraged by Vyasji's feedback, I want to re-iterate the importance

of what he said in brief about this important topic with your

permission.

1) It is a fact that if I perceive/recognize changes in body, mind,

and in the world(all being perishables), there has to be Changless,

Constancy in my experience too. This is the proof of my true nature

being that Changeless Experience of ever Being present as background

in all situations of life! We call THAT Atman-SELF-Consciousness. It

becomes obvious to Sadhaka, down the road, he/she cannot be one that

comes and goes, rather is one that is permanent. He/she grows into

this Awareness!

2) Once the discrimination between perishables and permanent takes

hold, it has life of its own, and Sadhaka is led to experience of

ONENESS of all, perishables or otherwise.

Indeed, Vasudevah Sarvam goal shines/reins.

3) Sadhaka discovers that perishable, including even insentient

objects are experienced as merely shapes of Consciousness

(Chittakaras, Chittvrittis), just as elephant-like shapes of clouds

are made up of water vapors. That which is perceived/conceived is at

the same time THAT which perceives/consceives. Consciousness knows

Consciousness only, Bhakta merges in Bhagwan, Love loves love,

Beauty contemplates beauty!

Namaskar........

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Oh Sure! Pratapji ! " Neti Neti " - Not thus , not thus is a sure

method of quick realisation . Agreed ! It is a law that if there is

no " negation " - you cannot establish accomplishment of a method.

 

Mirabai said -

 

" Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi " - Only God is mine, no body/

nothing else is mine.

 

Here " Mere to Girdhar Gopal " . (God is mine) is

establishing. " Doosaro na koi " ( Nothing else is mine)

is " negation " ! A lot of people may believe that " God is mine " but

till negation that " nothing else is mine " is added, it is not

established that " God is mine " Then " God is mine " is a mere addition

to the already existing list of mineness with wife, children,

parents, house, wealth, health, power, ability etc etc !.

 

But, If you are able to negate totally by using only self/conscience-

all that is " doosara " (other- the world, inert, every that thing

which changes) , you get " God Realisation " instantly. No nose is to

be pressed, no eyes are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no

posture is to be taken, no dhyaan, no dharna, no astanga yoga, no

meditation, no action, no shelter of matter, no austerities are to

be performed, no Himalayas are to be visited, no house is to be

deserted, no mind is to be controlled, no antahkaran is to be

purified- simply disconnection with the " other " viz the

perishable/changeable/ world/ mind, ego, intellect, body / worldly

people/bodies/things - by whatever name you call the " inert " (

Doosaro no koi) is to be accomplished by the " self " without using

the other- that is more than enough.

 

" God is mine " - it is always even otherwise, the connection is

eternal , it was in the past, it is now, it will be in future, it is

not possible to be otherwise ! Just negate the inert, just

relinquish the shelter of inert- the sentient will manifest AS IT

IS .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Priy sadhaks

I am of the view that we can feel similar activities of our body

like heart beat etc. in every one n can realize that all is god coz

its being done by god.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, " There is water, butter ect in

milk understood intellectualy, but to see it or experience it " . Now

one has to make milk to curd and then seperate butter, then water,

then ghee. So there is effort put in. To know the process you needed

someone to teach you. To know Paramathuma you need REAL SAT Guru to

tell how to do sadana to realize GOD. Sadaks I have been repeated

telling that God is " Apprameyam " . Means God cannot be seen or felt

by humans just like seeing an object. To see a very small thing

blood cell one needs microscope. To see God or realize God one needs

only Gyana which almost all puranas, scripts, Gurus are saying. This

Gyana is said to be obtained over several birth practice of

Bakthi/meditation/sadana. This is also said in prominent scripts.

Saints came up only by their previous births sadanas. Saints

themselves said so. Bagavan in BG has said do Karma and leave the

fruits to ME. Do sadana and leave the responsibility to GOD to give

us Gyana or to see HIM.

B.Sathyanarayan.

 

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean " to

know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads

to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.

The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:

One asks " what am I? " If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some

silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not

from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly

humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some

hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that

nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In

Swamiji's words, it is " I am not this, not that etc " . (Neti neti per

Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where " I " doesn't point

to anything objective! Because objects are not " me " , I, necessarily,

have to be subject!

Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the

desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be

anything mind knows, believes.

This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word

(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that

object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that

is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our

consciousness, including mind.

 

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?

if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say

who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!

Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound

by karmas, etc etc.

 

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all

knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure

Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent

Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification

with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says

Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new

Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

 

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world

in Freedom!

Namaskar...

Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that

we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being

permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the

impermanency/perishabilty !!

 

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,

starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,

spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,

though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM " goal rises in

Self !

 

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there

too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

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Posted

NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Couldn't resist to say that Vyasji has made a beautiful point by

saying " 'until nothing else is mine' is added, 'God is mine' is not

really established/complete " . So true!

One cannot know what God is with mind, as all knowns are objects,

however, one can know what God is not(Dusra na koi). This may sound

like bad news, but good news is that one can BE, one need not know

by mind. This is by negation!

Once negation is completely established, everything known

resolves/dissolves into ABSOLUTE BEING!

Namaskar....

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

Have you ever been in a quiet place, with some dear soul who is very

precious to you, maybe in a park, or by a river, (wherever). In deep

silence no words. And you feel that silent connection.

You understand the feeling, yes?

Next time you are in a quiet place, listen with all your senses,

English does not have a single word for this depth of listening,

(listen with your soul, not your ego would also fit).

In your heart you will start to sense the Beloved Lord, if you feel

uneasy simply fall into Bhagwans arms, no demon from the dark places

of the psyche, can enter the light of Gods presence .

Quietly look at the world around you, see the marvel of it all, look

beyond the obvious, observe the ebb and flow of creation, realize all

you see is part of the whole.

Start to feel the loving presence, not just within your heart, but

radiating from all there is.

 

B.G. 10 : 42. But of what avail to you is the knowledge of all these

details, Arjuna? I exist, supporting this whole world by one part of

myself.

 

In a quiet time I suggest you read Gitaji Chapter 10, do not

rationalize, maybe go on and read Chapter 11.

A man I once knew said to me never rationalize, we were speaking of

things of the spirit.

You can dance among the stars you know, and you will not be alone.

 

This is my humble offering.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

 

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Encouraged by Vyasji's feedback, I want to re-iterate the importance

of what he said in brief about this important topic with your

permission.

1) It is a fact that if I perceive/recognize changes in body, mind,

and in the world(all being perishables), there has to be Changless,

Constancy in my experience too. This is the proof of my true nature

being that Changeless Experience of ever Being present as background

in all situations of life! We call THAT Atman-SELF-Consciousness. It

becomes obvious to Sadhaka, down the road, he/she cannot be one that

comes and goes, rather is one that is permanent. He/she grows into

this Awareness!

2) Once the discrimination between perishables and permanent takes

hold, it has life of its own, and Sadhaka is led to experience of

ONENESS of all, perishables or otherwise.

Indeed, Vasudevah Sarvam goal shines/reins.

3) Sadhaka discovers that perishable, including even insentient

objects are experienced as merely shapes of Consciousness

(Chittakaras, Chittvrittis), just as elephant-like shapes of clouds

are made up of water vapors. That which is perceived/conceived is at

the same time THAT which perceives/consceives. Consciousness knows

Consciousness only, Bhakta merges in Bhagwan, Love loves love,

Beauty contemplates beauty!

Namaskar........

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Oh Sure! Pratapji ! " Neti Neti " - Not thus , not thus is a sure

method of quick realisation . Agreed ! It is a law that if there is

no " negation " - you cannot establish accomplishment of a method.

 

Mirabai said -

 

" Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi " - Only God is mine, no body/

nothing else is mine.

 

Here " Mere to Girdhar Gopal " . (God is mine) is

establishing. " Doosaro na koi " ( Nothing else is mine)

is " negation " ! A lot of people may believe that " God is mine " but

till negation that " nothing else is mine " is added, it is not

established that " God is mine " Then " God is mine " is a mere addition

to the already existing list of mineness with wife, children,

parents, house, wealth, health, power, ability etc etc !.

 

But, If you are able to negate totally by using only self/conscience-

all that is " doosara " (other- the world, inert, every that thing

which changes) , you get " God Realisation " instantly. No nose is to

be pressed, no eyes are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no

posture is to be taken, no dhyaan, no dharna, no astanga yoga, no

meditation, no action, no shelter of matter, no austerities are to

be performed, no Himalayas are to be visited, no house is to be

deserted, no mind is to be controlled, no antahkaran is to be

purified- simply disconnection with the " other " viz the

perishable/changeable/ world/ mind, ego, intellect, body / worldly

people/bodies/things - by whatever name you call the " inert " (

Doosaro no koi) is to be accomplished by the " self " without using

the other- that is more than enough.

 

" God is mine " - it is always even otherwise, the connection is

eternal , it was in the past, it is now, it will be in future, it is

not possible to be otherwise ! Just negate the inert, just

relinquish the shelter of inert- the sentient will manifest AS IT

IS .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Priy sadhaks

I am of the view that we can feel similar activities of our body

like heart beat etc. in every one n can realize that all is god coz

its being done by god.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, " There is water, butter ect in

milk understood intellectualy, but to see it or experience it " . Now

one has to make milk to curd and then seperate butter, then water,

then ghee. So there is effort put in. To know the process you needed

someone to teach you. To know Paramathuma you need REAL SAT Guru to

tell how to do sadana to realize GOD. Sadaks I have been repeated

telling that God is " Apprameyam " . Means God cannot be seen or felt

by humans just like seeing an object. To see a very small thing

blood cell one needs microscope. To see God or realize God one needs

only Gyana which almost all puranas, scripts, Gurus are saying. This

Gyana is said to be obtained over several birth practice of

Bakthi/meditation/sadana. This is also said in prominent scripts.

Saints came up only by their previous births sadanas. Saints

themselves said so. Bagavan in BG has said do Karma and leave the

fruits to ME. Do sadana and leave the responsibility to GOD to give

us Gyana or to see HIM.

B.Sathyanarayan.

 

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean " to

know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads

to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.

The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:

One asks " what am I? " If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some

silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not

from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly

humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some

hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that

nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In

Swamiji's words, it is " I am not this, not that etc " . (Neti neti per

Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where " I " doesn't point

to anything objective! Because objects are not " me " , I, necessarily,

have to be subject!

Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the

desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be

anything mind knows, believes.

This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word

(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that

object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that

is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our

consciousness, including mind.

 

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?

if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say

who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!

Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound

by karmas, etc etc.

 

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all

knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure

Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent

Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification

with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says

Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new

Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

 

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world

in Freedom!

Namaskar...

Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that

we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being

permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the

impermanency/perishabilty !!

 

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,

starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,

spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,

though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM " goal rises in

Self !

 

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there

too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

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NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Couldn't resist to say that Vyasji has made a beautiful point by

saying " 'until nothing else is mine' is added, 'God is mine' is not

really established/complete " . So true!

One cannot know what God is with mind, as all knowns are objects,

however, one can know what God is not(Dusra na koi). This may sound

like bad news, but good news is that one can BE, one need not know

by mind. This is by negation!

Once negation is completely established, everything known

resolves/dissolves into ABSOLUTE BEING!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Encouraged by Vyasji's feedback, I want to re-iterate the importance

of what he said in brief about this important topic with your

permission.

1) It is a fact that if I perceive/recognize changes in body, mind,

and in the world(all being perishables), there has to be Changless,

Constancy in my experience too. This is the proof of my true nature

being that Changeless Experience of ever Being present as background

in all situations of life! We call THAT Atman-SELF-Consciousness. It

becomes obvious to Sadhaka, down the road, he/she cannot be one that

comes and goes, rather is one that is permanent. He/she grows into

this Awareness!

2) Once the discrimination between perishables and permanent takes

hold, it has life of its own, and Sadhaka is led to experience of

ONENESS of all, perishables or otherwise.

Indeed, Vasudevah Sarvam goal shines/reins.

3) Sadhaka discovers that perishable, including even insentient

objects are experienced as merely shapes of Consciousness

(Chittakaras, Chittvrittis), just as elephant-like shapes of clouds

are made up of water vapors. That which is perceived/conceived is at

the same time THAT which perceives/consceives. Consciousness knows

Consciousness only, Bhakta merges in Bhagwan, Love loves love,

Beauty contemplates beauty!

Namaskar........

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Oh Sure! Pratapji ! " Neti Neti " - Not thus , not thus is a sure

method of quick realisation . Agreed ! It is a law that if there is

no " negation " - you cannot establish accomplishment of a method.

 

Mirabai said -

 

" Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi " - Only God is mine, no body/

nothing else is mine.

 

Here " Mere to Girdhar Gopal " . (God is mine) is

establishing. " Doosaro na koi " ( Nothing else is mine)

is " negation " ! A lot of people may believe that " God is mine " but

till negation that " nothing else is mine " is added, it is not

established that " God is mine " Then " God is mine " is a mere addition

to the already existing list of mineness with wife, children,

parents, house, wealth, health, power, ability etc etc !.

 

But, If you are able to negate totally by using only self/conscience-

all that is " doosara " (other- the world, inert, every that thing

which changes) , you get " God Realisation " instantly. No nose is to

be pressed, no eyes are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no

posture is to be taken, no dhyaan, no dharna, no astanga yoga, no

meditation, no action, no shelter of matter, no austerities are to

be performed, no Himalayas are to be visited, no house is to be

deserted, no mind is to be controlled, no antahkaran is to be

purified- simply disconnection with the " other " viz the

perishable/changeable/ world/ mind, ego, intellect, body / worldly

people/bodies/things - by whatever name you call the " inert " (

Doosaro no koi) is to be accomplished by the " self " without using

the other- that is more than enough.

 

" God is mine " - it is always even otherwise, the connection is

eternal , it was in the past, it is now, it will be in future, it is

not possible to be otherwise ! Just negate the inert, just

relinquish the shelter of inert- the sentient will manifest AS IT

IS .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Priy sadhaks

I am of the view that we can feel similar activities of our body

like heart beat etc. in every one n can realize that all is god coz

its being done by god.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, " There is water, butter ect in

milk understood intellectualy, but to see it or experience it " . Now

one has to make milk to curd and then seperate butter, then water,

then ghee. So there is effort put in. To know the process you needed

someone to teach you. To know Paramathuma you need REAL SAT Guru to

tell how to do sadana to realize GOD. Sadaks I have been repeated

telling that God is " Apprameyam " . Means God cannot be seen or felt

by humans just like seeing an object. To see a very small thing

blood cell one needs microscope. To see God or realize God one needs

only Gyana which almost all puranas, scripts, Gurus are saying. This

Gyana is said to be obtained over several birth practice of

Bakthi/meditation/sadana. This is also said in prominent scripts.

Saints came up only by their previous births sadanas. Saints

themselves said so. Bagavan in BG has said do Karma and leave the

fruits to ME. Do sadana and leave the responsibility to GOD to give

us Gyana or to see HIM.

B.Sathyanarayan.

 

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean " to

know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads

to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.

The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:

One asks " what am I? " If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some

silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not

from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly

humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some

hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that

nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In

Swamiji's words, it is " I am not this, not that etc " . (Neti neti per

Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where " I " doesn't point

to anything objective! Because objects are not " me " , I, necessarily,

have to be subject!

Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the

desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be

anything mind knows, believes.

This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word

(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that

object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that

is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our

consciousness, including mind.

 

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?

if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say

who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!

Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound

by karmas, etc etc.

 

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all

knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure

Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent

Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification

with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says

Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new

Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

 

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world

in Freedom!

Namaskar...

Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that

we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being

permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the

impermanency/perishabilty !!

 

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,

starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,

spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,

though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM " goal rises in

Self !

 

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there

too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

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NEW QUESTION:

Narayan Narayan

 

IN ENLISH

All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to

realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

 

IN HINDI

Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein

Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

 

[ramchandra]

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Clearing pending queue today... month end administration.

Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasdev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Couldn't resist to say that Vyasji has made a beautiful point by

saying " 'until nothing else is mine' is added, 'God is mine' is not

really established/complete " . So true!

One cannot know what God is with mind, as all knowns are objects,

however, one can know what God is not(Dusra na koi). This may sound

like bad news, but good news is that one can BE, one need not know

by mind. This is by negation!

Once negation is completely established, everything known

resolves/dissolves into ABSOLUTE BEING!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Encouraged by Vyasji's feedback, I want to re-iterate the importance

of what he said in brief about this important topic with your

permission.

1) It is a fact that if I perceive/recognize changes in body, mind,

and in the world(all being perishables), there has to be Changless,

Constancy in my experience too. This is the proof of my true nature

being that Changeless Experience of ever Being present as background

in all situations of life! We call THAT Atman-SELF-Consciousness. It

becomes obvious to Sadhaka, down the road, he/she cannot be one that

comes and goes, rather is one that is permanent. He/she grows into

this Awareness!

2) Once the discrimination between perishables and permanent takes

hold, it has life of its own, and Sadhaka is led to experience of

ONENESS of all, perishables or otherwise.

Indeed, Vasudevah Sarvam goal shines/reins.

3) Sadhaka discovers that perishable, including even insentient

objects are experienced as merely shapes of Consciousness

(Chittakaras, Chittvrittis), just as elephant-like shapes of clouds

are made up of water vapors. That which is perceived/conceived is at

the same time THAT which perceives/consceives. Consciousness knows

Consciousness only, Bhakta merges in Bhagwan, Love loves love,

Beauty contemplates beauty!

Namaskar........

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Oh Sure! Pratapji ! " Neti Neti " - Not thus , not thus is a sure

method of quick realisation . Agreed ! It is a law that if there is

no " negation " - you cannot establish accomplishment of a method.

 

Mirabai said -

 

" Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi " - Only God is mine, no body/

nothing else is mine.

 

Here " Mere to Girdhar Gopal " . (God is mine) is

establishing. " Doosaro na koi " ( Nothing else is mine)

is " negation " ! A lot of people may believe that " God is mine " but

till negation that " nothing else is mine " is added, it is not

established that " God is mine " Then " God is mine " is a mere addition

to the already existing list of mineness with wife, children,

parents, house, wealth, health, power, ability etc etc !.

 

But, If you are able to negate totally by using only self/conscience-

all that is " doosara " (other- the world, inert, every that thing

which changes) , you get " God Realisation " instantly. No nose is to

be pressed, no eyes are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no

posture is to be taken, no dhyaan, no dharna, no astanga yoga, no

meditation, no action, no shelter of matter, no austerities are to

be performed, no Himalayas are to be visited, no house is to be

deserted, no mind is to be controlled, no antahkaran is to be

purified- simply disconnection with the " other " viz the

perishable/changeable/ world/ mind, ego, intellect, body / worldly

people/bodies/things - by whatever name you call the " inert " (

Doosaro no koi) is to be accomplished by the " self " without using

the other- that is more than enough.

 

" God is mine " - it is always even otherwise, the connection is

eternal , it was in the past, it is now, it will be in future, it is

not possible to be otherwise ! Just negate the inert, just

relinquish the shelter of inert- the sentient will manifest AS IT

IS .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Priy sadhaks

I am of the view that we can feel similar activities of our body

like heart beat etc. in every one n can realize that all is god coz

its being done by god.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, " There is water, butter ect in

milk understood intellectualy, but to see it or experience it " . Now

one has to make milk to curd and then seperate butter, then water,

then ghee. So there is effort put in. To know the process you needed

someone to teach you. To know Paramathuma you need REAL SAT Guru to

tell how to do sadana to realize GOD. Sadaks I have been repeated

telling that God is " Apprameyam " . Means God cannot be seen or felt

by humans just like seeing an object. To see a very small thing

blood cell one needs microscope. To see God or realize God one needs

only Gyana which almost all puranas, scripts, Gurus are saying. This

Gyana is said to be obtained over several birth practice of

Bakthi/meditation/sadana. This is also said in prominent scripts.

Saints came up only by their previous births sadanas. Saints

themselves said so. Bagavan in BG has said do Karma and leave the

fruits to ME. Do sadana and leave the responsibility to GOD to give

us Gyana or to see HIM.

B.Sathyanarayan.

 

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean " to

know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads

to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.

The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:

One asks " what am I? " If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some

silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not

from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly

humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some

hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that

nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In

Swamiji's words, it is " I am not this, not that etc " . (Neti neti per

Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where " I " doesn't point

to anything objective! Because objects are not " me " , I, necessarily,

have to be subject!

Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the

desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be

anything mind knows, believes.

This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word

(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that

object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that

is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our

consciousness, including mind.

 

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?

if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say

who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!

Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound

by karmas, etc etc.

 

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all

knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure

Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent

Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification

with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says

Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new

Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

 

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world

in Freedom!

Namaskar...

Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that

we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being

permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the

impermanency/perishabilty !!

 

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,

starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,

spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,

though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM " goal rises in

Self !

 

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there

too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well

as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as

Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True

gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,

only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything

perishable is also Vasudeva, if " Vasudeva sarvam " has to be true for

Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true

knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through

questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with

Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a

question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even

now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't

look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being

conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing

but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world

as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!

So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus

everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why

Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

 

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see

this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the

lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!

When he says " Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine " , it

is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they

will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which

one is.

 

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is

nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of

Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a

chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,

and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the

flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not

enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only

Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and

placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender

to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his

mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the

mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all

that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.

God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,

please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.

In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our

ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.

[ramchandra)

 

IN HINDI

Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper

udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya

niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki

kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi

keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

 

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek

bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki

goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki

maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.

Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne

kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar

muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se

abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki

jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

 

[ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

 

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your

time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5

attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His

being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never

apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani

------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only

God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.

Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things

as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but

even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of

not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from

the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is

only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done

by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even

if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas

etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a

small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said " Mere toh Giridhar

Gopal.. " this is realization of the true essence of God. God is

ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays

with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we

consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only

Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will

this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with

us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with

us, then who should we consider our own?

(ramchandra)

 

 

IN HINDI

Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our

bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya

hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko

apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein

nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati

hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki

Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka

pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim

hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan

hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka

Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere

tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein

Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare

sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna

mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya

sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai

rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man

bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho

phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare

(ramchandra)

 

------------------------------

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH

It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,

there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the

five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being

part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of

Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the

three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them

to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also

being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think

about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore

everything is God only.

Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… " Vasudeva Sarvam iti… " Gita 7:19. This

body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all

is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,

Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that

EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

IN HINDI

 

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,

aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.

ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi

swaroop

hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha

ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein

yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi

swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our

parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi

hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)

SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA

MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.

KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN

[sHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

 

----------------------------

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS

Questions:

 

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people

like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the

point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Do not be discouraged by word " rare " . God has said he is Sulabh

(easily attainable) whereas devotee is " durlabh " rarity. " All is

God " is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God

Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest

form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing

but " waste our time " . When something is really not mine, what right

do I have to " use " or " waste " it? It is self-importance only. Unless

conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

 

2) What should be my goal of life?

 

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)

Our goal in this life should be " God Realisation " only.

I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be

instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,

thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only

Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only

God is Mine, No one else is.

 

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

 

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.

Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that

is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let

there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of

godhead. " The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that

lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita, will add " Turning to God,

will put a leash on these brutes " . Gita is for All without

discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

 

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

 

If you want " Vasudeva Sarvam " It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak

Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,

inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam. " Virtually none

have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in

dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by

the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita

Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is

difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by

being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the

Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of

ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus

suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all

eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized

by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient

that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita

verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at

all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on

inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,

Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that

are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner

expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three

main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to

realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and

liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read

Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

 

Begin by desiring God. Then " Nam Samaran " (rememberance of God). Do

not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all

pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of " open eye

meditation " to realize " All is God " – Sahaj Sadhana " i.e. Father of

world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

 

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi

(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –

Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,

(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every

Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If

all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate

all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord

Krishna has blessed all approaches.

 

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?

If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what

we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.

Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping

into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind

is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.

We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme

Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,

acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.

Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha " i.e. Remove all doubts from

shraddha. " Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.

Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -

faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.

How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable

object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't

know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of

doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

 

6) How " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ?

 

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the " doer " and you belong to only

God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,

thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind

and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to

you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,

naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes

God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.

Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

 

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divines,

Pranams.

Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing

the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.

The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,

acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,

brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges

back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it

arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all

very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!

all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

 

Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.

This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:

Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that

mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

 

QUESTIONS: But how " true bhajan " can be done only by " self " ? Also

Nagaji said - " Belief must necessarily have doubts " - how belief can

have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt?

 

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from

all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind

away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.

At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan

MM Purohit

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch

with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .

I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular

to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now

taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again

today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.

Thanks again.

 

MM Purohit

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

 

Once you have distanced your " self " with " your " mind- the summit is

not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing

different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes

it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it

becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are

always different !!

 

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear

indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my

personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is

so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on

it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self

Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has

really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards

the ocean.

 

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a

metaphor (I think it is mine): " The gates of heaven are guarded by

the hounds of hell that lay within " , now with wisdom of The Gita,

will add " Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes " .

 

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have

exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept

something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing

His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this

Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is

with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please

keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-

 

Narayan Narayan

 

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from

Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will

they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,

then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not

turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be

destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His

loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and

recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.

Ramchandra

 

IN HINDI

Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta

Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi

Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast

Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.

Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te

hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.

Ramchandra

 

-----------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate

regarding belief a grand final end.

 

" Doubt " is always on that thing about which we know something and do

not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In

order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of

THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't

know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on

what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

 

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,

that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any

doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always

be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a

few months back.

 

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to

you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire

of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous

observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed

reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement " belief

must necessarily have doubts " and views expressed by others " Believe

without doubt - all is God " . I didn't imply right or wrong on

anyone's part.

In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as

some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-

Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.

The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru

and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get

pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to

inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is

the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most

effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from

the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience

taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path

(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!

It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief

in the Advaita Vedantic context!

It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that

God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other

knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,

because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!

However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that

knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even

the Subject.(this is not theory, please)

What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not

limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true

identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is

not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness

knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.

What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is

God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic

teaching the first understanding is " I am not the Body-mind

individual I thought I was " , this is the descrimination-viveka. But

the final teaching is " All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I

AM " , this is Vasudev Sarvam.

Here " I " points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an

individual I.

" I " is not body-mind but body-mind is also " I " . Such Realization

has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It

is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so

to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this

way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!

Namaskars....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …

after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me

rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion

… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

 

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the

body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do

I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to

respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who

is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in

lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I

urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything

without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your

sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not

dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is

tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that

knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow

realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will

retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He

assures, " I will definitely quit when you are ready! " … Therefore, I

am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...

and, see what …

 

But, …

 

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I

see and as I can …

I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and

fears … within and around …

I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego

rooted in body, mind and experience …

I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana

Nartana as is … as he leads …

I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the

Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …

I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the

ashes of the vasanaas and sins …

I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her

great brother the All Compassionate Life …

Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I

am in This Blissful Life …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …

still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

 

Therefore, …

 

I pray …

 

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The

Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …

Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and

the fears …

Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three

cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding

within …

Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of

this flase Nayaka within …

Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal

all my urge to dscirminate enroute …

Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very

instinct of any discrimination ….

Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more

discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,

thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …

Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to

flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the

fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

 

I pray … I plead within …

 

Never believe … never doubt …

Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you

are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs

and doubts …

Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull

of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires

and fears …

 

But, … do believe … do doubt …

 

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and

believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky

enough to embrace the Neelakantha …

Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your

identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to

carry the Mahadeva …

 

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

 

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,

the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no

more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

 

Therefore … let me pray …

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Just a personal note …

 

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words

whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every

syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In

that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can

be NOT perfect?!

 

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions

remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions

remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world

has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.

Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

 

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's

utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access

somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified

automatically.

2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in

somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one

who finds wrong is sticking to what he already " knows " – retaining

one's ignorance intact.

3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others

because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to

conceal the same.

 

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to

purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it

goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At

least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in

the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are

helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit

the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you

understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own

difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were

impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and

let me keep it the same way.

 

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …

as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a

healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and

Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to

post these worthless opinions …

 

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize

as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …

just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

 

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING:

 

Dear Shri Pratap,

Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.

Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu

---------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga

Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -

faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , " acceptance "

word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong

with our reply, Jee?

 

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it

means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.

Swamiji many times called it as a " dog " also Jee! Many great Saints

and Shrimad

Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at " bhava "

Bhaiyya, not the

specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

 

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)

rightly stated by you - When I said " eye can not see itself " , then I

referred to that eye viz " chakshushashya chakshu " only ! Happy

Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge

nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It

can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek

drishti (conscience eye) or your great " Chakshushashya chakshu " Jee!

Any eye !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--

Dear Akka and others!

 

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed

through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include

the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is

unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as

it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!

Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor

Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

 

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has

no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he

even

pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as

well! … I may

have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this

fellow by my side

… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving

up on him

does not seem

to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really

lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

 

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded

deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my

filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to

reveal my

filth to its core !

 

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way

irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …

the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we

all mean the

same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when

THAT is

everything … I will try to understand better …

 

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya

through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he

is bound to

vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing

but Him …

once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The

Shiva.

 

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and

Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth

back … Please

dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …

Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

 

Love.

 

Naga Narayana

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

 

Please note that " to believe " , is the power of " self " who is beyond

mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief

exists. A

child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is

not there,

then belief also is not there.

 

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna

say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha " . What is that

stablisation ? Removal

of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!

And that it

can exist without doubt. Clear ?

 

The use of words " putting mind in deep freezer " or " pure belief "

or " true bhajan " (in Swamiji's language " asli " bhajan) etc. are to

stress the

difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.

No body in

reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if

we want to

realise Paramatma, or " Vasudevah Sarvam " then we must renounce the

shelter of

inert-

mind/body etc. Hence " drop the mind " or " put the mind in deep

freezer " - it is not negativity, but necessary.

 

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for

Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle

therefore it

should be renounced.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are

not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which

is beyond inert.(Jad)

 

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that

we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual

significance to help

sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu

Scriptures, in Gita

the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it " shraddha "

or

" nishtha " .

 

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist

without doubt?

Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by

Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -

" Vasudevah

Sarvam " as his spiritual bhava?

 

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?

Quote a single

scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?

What about

Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

 

Now to say that " belief " originates from mind and " faith " originates

from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is

stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

 

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand

by whatever I said.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayan Narayan

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on

Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.

It seems to me the meaning of " Belief " as he uses could be different

than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among

others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different

meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /

exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common

notion of

belief is something one believes in when there

is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense

perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they

say " just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc " . This way it

may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.

However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken

Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating

from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.

Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by

them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,

doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief

and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise

together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire

and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic

terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having

the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real

cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in

absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no

such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as

two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.

When we say " belief " it is relative to " doubt " only whether we

acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in

a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising

above both to THAT absolute " knowingness " of Atman, Consciousness,

wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light

only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is

THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all

such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has " pure belief,

divine belief etc etc " as conventions but understanding is it is the

Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)

and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

 

On another point, " part cannot know Paramatma " implying we are part!

But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know

God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all

eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is

Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself

beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot

exist without IT! (statements like " I don't know or I am ignorant "

are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).

Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind

becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless

thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for

such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse

of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being

non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF

as instrument to serve!

Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we

call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or

written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-

intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,

and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits

of sadhakas!

Namaskaras.........Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Naganarayanji,

When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking

whether he will

fall into his mother's hands, does he have any

doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /

belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then

how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?

Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to

speak of adults. Ramchander

 

IN HINDI

Naganarayanji,

Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma

Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?

Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?

Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke

Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai

Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

 

Ramchander

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not

instrument of " knowing " - even if for argument sake it is - then God

is beyond knowledge.

 

What is not subject matter of " knowledge " can only be subject matter

of " belief " . Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!

There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one

entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't

agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with

belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,

as a sadhak, humbly).

 

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -

All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-

there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and

Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs

will go away.

 

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.

Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God

in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.

That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,

knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the

knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away

the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

 

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord

Krishna-

 

" Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav "

( O Achyut) I am now positioned in " doubtless " state, now I shall do

what you say. "

 

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real

Belief.

 

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -

Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to

begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in

your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must

do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there

no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

 

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like

belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was

when you said - Mom is mine!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and

Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

 

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself

Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma " know "

itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is

beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

 

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what

we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only

in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

 

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -

" if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more? "

Or " Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt " or " Whenever we

are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of

what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have "

Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,

then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is

no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly

alright had you used word " knowing " instead of " believing " in the

first part and " believing " instead of " doubting " in the second

part. " Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have " .

 

Yes ! " working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is

another " . So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to

be because belief/acceptance is power of " self " . Now once you drop

mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind

only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of

his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But

belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you

have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief

remaining ! As simple as that !

 

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to

Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach

Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,

full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

 

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.

Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,

heart beat of your body.

Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.

Do it right now.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

------------------------------

M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,

how there can be doubt? How " true bhajan " can be done only

by " self " ?

 

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the

unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can

we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get

perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our

existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and

come to conclude, " I act through the mind for everything. That is

not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the

everything. " We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we

know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the

mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are

with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind

we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the

knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how

can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in

appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and

dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we

have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and

believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we

don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have

believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils

the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us

to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite

perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes

of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we

never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each

other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the

other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled

by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is

to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,

known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally

simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be

what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the

same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in

nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities

only.

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam

||

 

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it

listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or

excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the

biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good

and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for

abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses

without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is

revealed in everything within and around as such.

 

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith

and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it

nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing

but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything

including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing

it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT

irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing

lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.

But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But

idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as

Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol

one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the

eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol

started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on

Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.

Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was

that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.

Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They

saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and

gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as

Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and

also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.

One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first

birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang

a song " Gyana Paana " . One can get this song by CD. In the song he

sang that " when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for

children " . Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam

flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna

but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as

Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze

it.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is

otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by

succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is

difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they

are tricks played by mind.

 

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse

there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is

mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so

suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is

function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if

self is worldly.

 

But " self " out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and

gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls

prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.

Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its

cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position

and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is

Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says " Tvayi mayi anyatra eko

vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu " In you and me and

others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?

Divakarosmi.

" subbanarasu divakaran "

 

------------------------------

PREVIOUS POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

 

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is

ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,

intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you

are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?

If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's

only and you won't find any problems ever.

Ram Ram bhaiya.

Sarvottam.

 

I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.

Nothing can be easier to this.

Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/

explanation in sadhak sanjivani,

I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we

cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we

complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.

Thanx

Raja

(Raja Gurdasani)

 

Dear Sadak, Prohit

It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in

you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD

in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to

changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see

world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your

mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)

Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD

in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a

person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.

Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he

saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

 

What is " true bhajan " ? It is a state where the name of God is

appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and

automatically.

 

" Love for God is real bhajan " . This is an inner sentiment. It arises

from " self " - " acceptance by self " - due to " mineness with God " . Love

for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember

then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your

end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so

always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your

deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance

with " brahminhood " / " married " .

 

Similarly when you have " mineness " with your child- the love for the

child is automatic. You don't have to " do " something. Your mind,

ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for

the good of that child.

 

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the " self/soul " - when self

establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing

worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other

words Bhajan only. When you have " become " of God, then your bhajan

has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's

child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.

When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care

of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.

When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is

God's house only. That is bhajan.

 

Bhajan is not " tota ratant " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not

established " mineness " with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons

may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better

lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such

people normally call realisation to be a " gradual process " . They get

split between world and God. World is still " mine " for them. To the

extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary

factor is mineness with God.

 

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of

God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine " - your each and every

activity is a bhajan.

 

Real " bhajan " is never " done " . It " happens " . Your mind then will

not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get

directed towards God. Since it is " inert " , it will not be able to

reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain

tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense

gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in

sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.

Your entire body will start getting " chinmay " . Each and every

action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

 

Hence the true bhajan is " mineness " with God and that mineness is

established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.

Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at

all times, in all deeds.

 

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good

karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will

extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name

of her husband throughout her life, still because she has

established " mineness " with her husband- she is considered his

always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you

have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are

answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing

bhajan only.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell

us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared

messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote

the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad

statements.

 

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of

doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in

a focused manner to remove clouds.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called

Bhajan:-

 

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !

Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

 

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He

is very loveable to me)

 

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,

Tulsi taji kusamaaj

 

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU

FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

 

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you

wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an

action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the

mind. He

accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual

process. Mind

enjoys freedom.

Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self

continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful

servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely

makes a

mistake).

 

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with

God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of

mind !

 

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in

case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with

the mind/body

etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE

PLACE IN GITA

" PRACTICE " HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter

6.

 

In Bhakti Yoga essence is " mineness " -there the mind follows self

like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self

can ignore

mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of

recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?

Tape

recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-

Bhaiyyaji? What

about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon " naam

smaran "

without becoming of God.

 

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi

When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become

bhajan only.

 

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya

tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

 

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever

austerities you

perform - offer to Me.

 

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The " doer "

( Karta) has

become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of

giving, doing,

eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-----------------------------

Dear Purohitji,

 

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

 

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at

the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you

can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if

you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and

still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there

but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly

see it.

 

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.

So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not

possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this

curtain.

 

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He

was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of

our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used

to say " Jahan Man, Wahan Hum " (We are where our mind is).

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

 

In the verse, Please read " rare " as " adbhut (in Hindi) " . Please do

not get discouraged by the word " rare " ; that is only a mishap of

translation.

 

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has

made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita

is meant for all humans and equally to all without any

discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;

whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;

whether " ordinary " or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

 

Arjun is " anuraag " , symbolic of " affectionate devotion " ; Shree

Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further

clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun

as " Bharat " at times and as " Parth (friend) " at other times.

 

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only

to " rare " . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE

scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the

YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

 

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

 

------------------------------

 

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri

Sarvottamji says " disown the mind " , while A H Dalmiaji says " use

the mind and remember from mind " . Sir what should I do ? Should I

disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did

Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?

Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

 

--------------------------------

ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for

ordinary people like

me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you

should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised

to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be

able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in

seeing in everyone God only ?

 

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

 

Murli Manohar Purohit

-

Hari Om

 

I agree with Mike fully. To experience " Vasudevah Sarvam " ( All is

God) - one has to take shelter of " open eye meditation " and that is

the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called

in Hindi- " Sahaj Sadhana " . In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes

are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be

controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no

actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(

inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and

continuously renouncing you ! )

 

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)

for a striver of " Vasudevah Sarvam " . If you use mind there, you will

not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in

death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you

can see God there- no other way!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------------

Re: Murli Purohit

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM

can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /

refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj) to be wrong.

 

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

 

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of

Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -

leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong " is out of question !

 

Rajendra J Bohra

Narayana Narayana

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind " ? Any way ,

because you " used " your mind you are now " confused " ! It is more

difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !

Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to

Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on

this machine? In future , make it a point not " to use your mind "

where such serious issues are getting discussed.

 

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you

lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as " conscience " ,

is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have

tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in

straightening out this curly tail of dog-called " mind " . Why don't

you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is

some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

 

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there

behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How

can you get " imperishable " element by using " perishable " element?

How can you get " unchangeable " thing by using " changeable " thing,

you can? How can you get " sentient " by using " inert " ? How can you

reach the " cause " using the " effect " ? How can an eye see itself? How

can the " seer " become the " seen " ?

 

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

 

Raam Raam Raam ! You must " disown " mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should

not " use " it ! " Bhajans " are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets

liberated?

 

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.

These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All

ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice

of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to

assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a

path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get

results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,

assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said

based on their individual understanding / experience and what

finally decide what appeals to you most.

 

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran

comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

 

A.H.Dalmia

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,

authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of

Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha

and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji

can blindly follow the given advice.

 

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or

experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )

by " using " the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -

N E V E R !!

 

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable

by any machine also ! ! ! If we to the views that

 

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is

made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind

and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-

purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,

and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you

must " do " something to realise Him and/or etc etc

 

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to

say of other Scriptures !!

 

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)

and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond

nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by " using " the

mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by " renouncing " the

mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for

use when you " act " . God is realised only when you " do not act " !

How mind then can help you?

 

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can

help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (

Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as

to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

 

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

 

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by " SELF " - I

repeat NEVER !.

 

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. " SELF " not from

mind.

 

3-You should " disown " the mind rather than " use " the mind.

 

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

What should be my goal of life?

 

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally

goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any

end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is

quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly

is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking

water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of

being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the

biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

 

" My " goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable

tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always

resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is

under my absolute control?!

 

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond

time and space boundaries – " yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara

eva " . If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an

individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.

Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

 

If at all I would like to claim " my goals " , the only one worthy of

pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,

aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my

pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

-

-Shree Hari-

 

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

 

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some

thoughts.

" Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or

self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. " When

The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga

level [bG 6.18].

Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge

of God, the Supreme End [bG 5.17].

Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and

detachments [bG 6.35].

 

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the

observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

 

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord

Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who

can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise

to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through

experience).

 

With Respects and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

 

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as

" Krishnapanamastu " as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no

activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the

Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.

Subbanarasu Divakaran

--------------------------------

Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

 

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With

my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic

relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all

external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything

else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is

attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,

to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to

clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the

safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever

help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.

Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an

undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great

scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I

wield the resolve required.

 

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because

belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without

a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.

Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.

Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn

key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to

throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime

thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I

can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could

probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can

throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn

thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all

doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was

indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,

we " believe " we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,

all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till

we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and

doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every

attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously

like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate

the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I

take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all

the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their

abode.

 

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all

you " have to " believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

--------------------------------

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste

time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that

task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -

Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

 

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In

Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

 

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply

keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on

spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It

can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject

matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is

fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with

mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if

you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)

people in His regime. He wants " bhavas " which poor mind can not

generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan " ( God looks at your inner

expressions) !

 

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are

you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and

confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

 

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read

Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But

Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to

use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten

out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------------

question in consideration is

 

who is gita for?

 

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

 

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam

eko devo devaki putra eva

eko mantras tasya namani yani

karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one

scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam

shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one

common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be

one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead

sri Krishna.

 

your servant

 

piyush gupta

-------------------------------

 

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and

confusing for anyone wishing to understabd " Who am I " . Teaching of

our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so

as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and

using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been

unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our

understanding.

 

Sheila Maharaj

 

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram!

Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen

to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read

below and do what you find for you:

" what do you want? " asked Swamiji.

" Vasudev: Sarvam " I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).

" It is and you have it. " Swamiji said.

" But I don't get it. " I said.

" I said It IS and you have It. " Swamiji said.

" Jee Swamijee. " I could say.

" Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is

jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:

Sarvam. " Swamiji said

And what happened then is beyond description.

If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.

Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know

NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.

Ram Ram!

Sarvottam

--------------------------------

All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

 

I understand that this question is whether the prescription " All is

God " is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna

says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only

what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, " NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING

THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING

ALIEN BEHAVIORS!! " All the prescriptions from the scriptures for

self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons

according to their nature.

 

But, " All is God " is neither a " prescription " nor can

be " practiced " . It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God

remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –

even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any

specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance

regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be

prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

 

When God is All, there is nothing left to say " for whom? " . Of course

it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of

anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does

not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says " no " can be aware

of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at

all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT

irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one

acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition

collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda

sah – One who says " yes " has no clue of what is being asserted.

Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an

illusion in one who insists on THAT.

 

Therefore, the question " whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone? " is

invalid in itself.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

-----------------------------

God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise

this you have to meditate.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

------------------------------

 

Dear Shri Purohitji,

 

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us

to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what

should be our goal in life. " God Realisation " .

 

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you

want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please

buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak

Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes

and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

 

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a

beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,

we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be

considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well

spent.

 

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to

cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next

step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to

oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only

long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam

Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much

more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to

remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,

when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during

this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes

back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How

does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or

through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during

Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be

loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the

mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind

See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no

stage we need to get complacent.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

" Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'? "

 

Agreed, don't waste " your time " . Then can you " use " that time for

something good? The concept " use " is intriguing in itself. It

implies whether one received " enough " happiness in return

of " sacrificing " one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,

have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time " we

sacrifice " ? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should

have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant

appreciation, we do nothing but " waste our time " .

 

Now comes the more apalling concept " MY TIME " ! Where is " my time " ?

Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to

manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that

all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life

span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be

realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have

to " use " or " waste " it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

 

The concept of " my precious time " , " my precious things " , etc. are

nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-

promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless

these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS

GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

 

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the

time will definitely move forward … as always.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

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