Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 jai gurudev om shivgoraksha i agree to many points wi5th gurubusterji. om shakti gopal On 12/18/09, Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > > A Guru does not offer ...... > > Platitudes. > > Or a solution with endorsements, whether the endorsements are ancient or > new age. > > Or a reckoner-guide book of what to do and what not to do. > > Or prescriptions. > > Or quotes. > > A Guru is least affected by the audience's love, or > sneer...........acceptance or rejection. > > A Guru neither validates the seeker/disciple..........nor invalidates. > > And thus a Guru is never kind or cruel. > > Neither tolerant, nor intolerant. > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > you..........by throwing you back to yourself. > > Every time. > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > ........embrace that one ......unconditionally. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Who is a Guru? To explain this better, I searched the word 'Guru' at Dictionary.Com and found the following meanings: A teacher and guide in spiritual and philosophical matters. A trusted counselor and adviser; a mentor. A recognized leader in a field like the guru of high finance. An expert. In terms of Sadhana and Mantra, a Guru is the one who has reached the highest level in a sadhana that you wish to learn; who knows everything about that sadhana including the secrets of success and the causes of failure; who can guide your towards the path leading to the highest level. Why do I need a Guru? I can pick a mantra from a book or a website, chant it and succeed on my own? Oh, really? Then, why did you go to school? Why everyone goes to school from their early childhood? Anyone can buy books and everyone buys books anyway? If you are serious about Sadhanas, you need a Guru for the same reason you needed to go to school. Moreover, there are many aspects of Sadhanas that only an able Guru can teach you. There are plenty of Sadhanas, if not all, in which even a slight mistake can result in your death. How do I find a Guru? You can't. A Sadhana is not a quick-fix solution to puny little problems of daily life. If you are not looking for a Guru who would get everything for you in no time while you'll sit back and enjoy a comfortable life for free, then an able Guru would find you. Furthermore, meeting a Guru is a natural process and you should never let anything; any person, any advertisement, any need, any desire, any temptation; influence it. If you are worthy, you would, certainly, be found by your Guru. I feel, my Guru is selling mantras for his/her own food / worldly comforts. Then, you should immediately leave such a Guru. The basis of Guru - Disciple relationship is trust. Either you must trust your Guru or you must leave your Guru - simple! Let me ask you something. Didn't you pay your teacher when you were in school? Don't you pay your doctor for treating you? Doesn't your employer / client pay you? If the answer to any of these questions is 'YES' then why do you expect the Guru to be an exception? 'Guru Dakshina' (fee paid to the Guru for his/her teachings) is an age old tradition. 'FREE' is not the criteria that separates the real Gurus from the rest. Have you ever thought, why is the Guru considered higher than the God? Not because the Guru can get you to the God and not because you can get plenty of 'out of this world' powers through the Guru; but, because of the love you can get from your Guru. Your parents love you; your brothers, sisters, friends, husbands, wives and children love you; but none of them can second the Guru in loving you. Whenever you are hurt, your Guru feels the pain more than you. Your Guru can even give his/her life to save yours. And what you do in return? You leave everything to your Guru and call it 'complete surrender' (which, surely, is a bad idea). You say, I want this, I want that and I want everything right now. Since what you want is different from what you really need, you may not always get what you want. And when this happens, you straightly declare your Guru a fraud which increases your bad karma and drastically decreases your chances of success. Let me tell you a story. A few days ago, in another group, a person posted something like this: " I request all members to send their age, sex, location, name and anubhuti (divine experience) so that I can develop faith " . " What a pity " , I thought. Here, on the web, we all are just IDs, not even names. We don't know each other, we probably will never know each other, in most cases, we can't see or hear each other, we can't touch each other while our Guru is a live person standing in front of us whom we can see, touch and hear. Yet, a person needs testimonies from unknown IDs to have faith in his/her Guru. Have faith in yourself. Learn to trust your Guru. Let your conscience be your judge. Only then, you can be successful in any Sadhana. Only then, you can be successful in your life. Only then, you can be complete and break out of the Life-Death Cycle. Note : This is an extract from another . not my brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 the likelihood of finding kind of guru you mention seems to be the same as finding a unicorn , Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > > A Guru does not offer ...... > > Platitudes. > > Or a solution with endorsements, whether the endorsements are ancient or > new age. > > Or a reckoner-guide book of what to do and what not to do. > > Or prescriptions. > > Or quotes. > > > A Guru is least affected by the audience's love, or > sneer...........acceptance or rejection. > > A Guru neither validates the seeker/disciple..........nor invalidates. > > And thus a Guru is never kind or cruel. > > Neither tolerant, nor intolerant. > > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > you..........by throwing you back to yourself. > > Every time. > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > ........embrace that one ......unconditionally. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 A forest fire is not required to create another forest fire. Depends on the scope and potential of the disciple the metamorphosis may happen. Best.. Saktiprasad --- On Fri, 18/12/09, sd <salharmonica wrote: sd <salharmonica the likelihood of finding kind of guru you mention seems to be the same as finding a unicorn , Gurubuster <fanatofida@ ...> wrote: > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > you......... .by throwing you back to yourself. > > Every time. > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > ........embrace that one ......unconditional ly. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 sd wrote: > > > the likelihood of finding kind of guru you mention seems to be the > same as finding a unicorn > :-) It is mote in the eye which makes the world blurry. In receptivity, which is the dropping of all notions, all conclusions, all hopes and all expectations about everything and anything including what a Guru should be .........in that vacancy.........the appearing. > > > <%40>, Gurubuster <fanatofida > wrote: > > > > A Guru does not offer ...... > > > > Platitudes. > > > > Or a solution with endorsements, whether the endorsements are > ancient or > > new age. > > > > Or a reckoner-guide book of what to do and what not to do. > > > > Or prescriptions. > > > > Or quotes. > > > > > > A Guru is least affected by the audience's love, or > > sneer...........acceptance or rejection. > > > > A Guru neither validates the seeker/disciple..........nor invalidates. > > > > And thus a Guru is never kind or cruel. > > > > Neither tolerant, nor intolerant. > > > > > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > > you..........by throwing you back to yourself. > > > > Every time. > > > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > > > ........embrace that one ......unconditionally. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 jai gurudev om shivgoraksha yes guru is req'ed 100% true fact. but till we dont find guru,let us start evolving our soul, by devotion reading sridevi charitra in various puranas and also other things,so as to improve our chances of finding guru. our bhava and bhakti will surely make maa give us proper guru in time.till then we shud not forget bhakti seva and samskara. om shakti gopal On 12/18/09, Sriram Dongre <sriramadongre wrote: > > > > Who is a Guru? > > To explain this better, I searched the word 'Guru' at Dictionary.Com and > found the following meanings: > > A teacher and guide in spiritual and philosophical matters. > A trusted counselor and adviser; a mentor. > A recognized leader in a field like the guru of high finance. > An expert. > In terms of Sadhana and Mantra, a Guru is the one who has reached the > highest level in a sadhana that you wish to learn; who knows everything > about that sadhana including the secrets of success and the causes of > failure; who can guide your towards the path leading to the highest level. > > Why do I need a Guru? I can pick a mantra from a book or a website, chant > it and succeed on my own? > > Oh, really? Then, why did you go to school? Why everyone goes to school > from their early childhood? Anyone can buy books and everyone buys books > anyway? If you are serious about Sadhanas, you need a Guru for the same > reason you needed to go to school. Moreover, there are many aspects of > Sadhanas that only an able Guru can teach you. There are plenty of Sadhanas, > if not all, in which even a slight mistake can result in your death. > > How do I find a Guru? > > You can't. A Sadhana is not a quick-fix solution to puny little problems of > daily life. If you are not looking for a Guru who would get everything for > you in no time while you'll sit back and enjoy a comfortable life for free, > then an able Guru would find you. Furthermore, meeting a Guru is a natural > process and you should never let anything; any person, any advertisement, > any need, any desire, any temptation; influence it. If you are worthy, you > would, certainly, be found by your Guru. > > I feel, my Guru is selling mantras for his/her own food / worldly comforts. > > Then, you should immediately leave such a Guru. The basis of Guru - > Disciple relationship is trust. Either you must trust your Guru or you must > leave your Guru - simple! Let me ask you something. Didn't you pay your > teacher when you were in school? Don't you pay your doctor for treating you? > Doesn't your employer / client pay you? If the answer to any of these > questions is 'YES' then why do you expect the Guru to be an exception? 'Guru > Dakshina' (fee paid to the Guru for his/her teachings) is an age old > tradition. 'FREE' is not the criteria that separates the real Gurus from the > rest. > > Have you ever thought, why is the Guru considered higher than the God? Not > because the Guru can get you to the God and not because you can get plenty > of 'out of this world' powers through the Guru; but, because of the love you > can get from your Guru. Your parents love you; your brothers, sisters, > friends, husbands, wives and children love you; but none of them can second > the Guru in loving you. Whenever you are hurt, your Guru feels the pain more > than you. Your Guru can even give his/her life to save yours. And what you > do in return? You leave everything to your Guru and call it 'complete > surrender' (which, surely, is a bad idea). You say, I want this, I want that > and I want everything right now. Since what you want is different from what > you really need, you may not always get what you want. And when this > happens, you straightly declare your Guru a fraud which increases your bad > karma and drastically decreases your chances of success. Let me tell you a > story. A few days ago, in another group, a person posted something like > this: " I request all members to send their age, sex, location, name and > anubhuti (divine experience) so that I can develop faith " . " What a pity " , I > thought. Here, on the web, we all are just IDs, not even names. We don't > know each other, we probably will never know each other, in most cases, we > can't see or hear each other, we can't touch each other while our Guru is a > live person standing in front of us whom we can see, touch and hear. Yet, a > person needs testimonies from unknown IDs to have faith in his/her Guru. > > Have faith in yourself. Learn to trust your Guru. Let your conscience be > your judge. Only then, you can be successful in any Sadhana. Only then, you > can be successful in your life. Only then, you can be complete and break out > of the Life-Death Cycle. > > Note : This is an extract from another . not my brain > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 jai gurudev om shivgoraksha dear sdji, yes almost as difficult as finding a unicorn !!!! om shakti gopal On 12/18/09, sd <salharmonica wrote: > > > > the likelihood of finding kind of guru you mention seems to be the same as > finding a unicorn > > <%40>, > Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > > > > A Guru does not offer ...... > > > > Platitudes. > > > > Or a solution with endorsements, whether the endorsements are ancient or > > new age. > > > > Or a reckoner-guide book of what to do and what not to do. > > > > Or prescriptions. > > > > Or quotes. > > > > > > A Guru is least affected by the audience's love, or > > sneer...........acceptance or rejection. > > > > A Guru neither validates the seeker/disciple..........nor invalidates. > > > > And thus a Guru is never kind or cruel. > > > > Neither tolerant, nor intolerant. > > > > > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > > you..........by throwing you back to yourself. > > > > Every time. > > > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > > > ........embrace that one ......unconditionally. > > > > > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\ +++++++ TRUTH PATH DESTINATION GOAL REAL ADIGURU SALVATION KARMA DESTINY AND ALL THAT EXISTS IS ONLY SUPREME NATURE SUPREME ENERGY DIVINE MOTHER ADI SHAKTI MAHAKAALI MAHALAXMI MAHASARASWATI LALITA TRIPURA SUNDARI KULKUNDALINI PARMESHWARI SHE IS THE ONLY BEING IN EXISTANCE AND WE ARE ALL PART OF HER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Though it is exinct, It was very easy to identify the UniCorn by observing the Corn -) but finding such a person is very very difficult because one may not see the Corn very easily :<). But I heard it is also possible if one goes through some type of a process of unmelanam or like that and can see plenty and one should be take care of the multicorns, cornless etc etc varieties which initially looks like the real UniCorn. sreekumar On 12/19/09, Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > > > > sd wrote: > > > > > > the likelihood of finding kind of guru you mention seems to be the > > same as finding a unicorn > > > > :-) > > It is mote in the eye which makes the world blurry. > > In receptivity, which is the dropping of all notions, all conclusions, > all hopes and all expectations about everything and anything including > what a Guru should be .........in that vacancy.........the appearing. > > > > > <%40> > > <%40<%2540>>, > Gurubuster <fanatofida > > wrote: > > > > > > A Guru does not offer ...... > > > > > > Platitudes. > > > > > > Or a solution with endorsements, whether the endorsements are > > ancient or > > > new age. > > > > > > Or a reckoner-guide book of what to do and what not to do. > > > > > > Or prescriptions. > > > > > > Or quotes. > > > > > > > > > A Guru is least affected by the audience's love, or > > > sneer...........acceptance or rejection. > > > > > > A Guru neither validates the seeker/disciple..........nor invalidates. > > > > > > And thus a Guru is never kind or cruel. > > > > > > Neither tolerant, nor intolerant. > > > > > > > > > A Guru is the one which does not answer your question, but answers > > > you..........by throwing you back to yourself. > > > > > > Every time. > > > > > > The one who keeps throwing yourself back to you...... > > > > > > ........embrace that one ......unconditionally. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hi All, I am new to this list, but would like to state a few thoughts I have on the Guru topic. I think the Guru is absolutely necessary, as far as tantric practices are concerned. I am seeking a Guru myself, which is somewhat difficult as I live in Australia. There are some sources where one can receive diksha through a photograph, or speak to the Guru via phone,... but I don't know. I am interested in both Sri Vidya and the Das Mahavidyas and knowing how intricate both these systems are, I am somewhat doubtful of the value of having the 'permission' to practice without all of the instructions necessary. It would be so much better to have a Guru in person to discuss these things with. On the other hand, anything is better than nothing, and my personal opinion is just as Krishna says in the _Bhagavad Gita_ that any effort taken to worship God is not without results. So personally, I am just trying to work on developing devotion to the Devi, and learning as much as I can, and hopefully in time the obstacles to meeting a true guru will be cleared. Marissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes, Guru is necessary. It would be better and if you have a devine guru (GOD). As Lord Shiva says in Guru Gita - Guru is Mother. Guru is Father. There is nothing beyond GURU. So the importance of Guru is immense and even the Lord is not above the Guru. You want to practice Tantrism and other sadhana, but without Diksha it would be useless and the power may corrupt you. Becareful! Finding the right guru in Kaali Yug is very hard. I wish you best of luck in finding the right guru. Why did you choose Maha Vidya? There are many other gods and goddess that have equal powers. Are you interested in uisng these powers for some other purposes.. I hope that you understand.. the powers are not for your benefits.. it should be used for the benefits ( in a good way) for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Dear Kemchi, I largely agree with what you are saying, which is why I do not currently practice any tantic sadhanas. I do however focus on the Mahavidyas, particularly Tara with a sense of Bhakti. Thank you for your well wishes in my finding a Guru, I hope the same, : ) As far as my interest in the MahaVidyas, I just feel drawn to them. I am not particularly interested in siddhis for personal use: I would appreciate divine asssistance with my material situation, but I must say that my interest in the Devi is purely spiritual. I wish to know God. Sincerely, Marissa ________________________________ kemchi_samurai <kemchi_samurai Yes, Guru is necessary. It would be better and if you have a devine guru (GOD). As Lord Shiva says in Guru Gita - Guru is Mother. Guru is Father. There is nothing beyond GURU. So the importance of Guru is immense and even the Lord is not above the Guru. You want to practice Tantrism and other sadhana, but without Diksha it would be useless and the power may corrupt you. Becareful! Finding the right guru in Kaali Yug is very hard. I wish you best of luck in finding the right guru. Why did you choose Maha Vidya? There are many other gods and goddess that have equal powers. Are you interested in uisng these powers for some other purposes.. I hope that you understand.. the powers are not for your benefits.. it should be used for the benefits ( in a good way) for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Guru is like a walking stick. If you are handicapped (physically/spiritually) you need a walking stick (guru) to walk. If you are not handicapped then the walking stick is useless. Regards Sanjeev --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Marissa R <marissaamber wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Sanjeev, I don't know. I have technically had a mystical experience several years ago through my own personally composed sadhana of yoga, 2 hours of meditation, and constant mindfulness with japa mantra. I was also using techniques out of the Vijnana Bhairava. I do not know if it was samadhi, or merely a dhyana state, but regardless it was the high point of my experience of consciousness. I think we can reach God by ourselves, and I think the Bhagavad Gita and other texts are quite clear on that point. Bhakti, and Karma Yoga and all of these things do not require a guru. I am inclined to think that even Jnana Yoga would be possible without a Guru. I even think that Laya yoga could be achieved without a Guru with enough persistance, because God Herself would be the Guru and reward someone who had the right effort. But as far as Tantra itself goes, it seems to be a fairly solid injunction to have a Guru. Then there is the issue that even if one did enough solid research and performed the sadhanas in an identical manner to someone who did receive diksha, that the practice would be entirely useless without that blessing. I suppose intention is the main thing, too. Anyway I am not trying to be dogmatic, but these are my thoughts. Marissa ________________________________ rohri mani <rohri_mani Guru is like a walking stick. If you are handicapped (physically/ spiritually) you need a walking stick (guru) to walk. If you are not handicapped then the walking stick is useless. Regards Sanjeev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 By the way, those wanting to follow a guru of some sort in practice may or may not find Shree Maa an interesting resource. www.shreemaa.org They teach a tremendous amount about puja and sadhana via books, free video and audio, though some may fault them for their approach to diksha, which is quite liberal (they say, if you want to be initiated into the mantra in a particular book, then consider yourself initiated). Your mileage may vary - I think if the guru is the right match for the devotee, then neither time nor space can keep the devotee from receiving their blessings. If it's not the right match, then the search will continue. I'm offering this for those who want/need a guru but might have difficulty finding one. Shree Maa and Swamiji are a great resource for people in that position, because they have made so much of their tradition and teachings wide open to the public. There are other temples and gurus around the world who travel and make appearances in various parts of the US, as well. And anyone in Northern California who wishes to come to my temple is very welcome: www.kamakhyamandir.org jai MA kamesvari -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org Facebook: http://doiop.com/kamakhya Twitter: http://twitter.com/kamakhyamandir On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Marissa R <marissaamber wrote: > > > Hi Sanjeev, > > I don't know. I have technically had a mystical experience several years > ago through my own personally composed sadhana of yoga, 2 hours of > meditation, and constant mindfulness with japa mantra. I was also using > techniques out of the Vijnana Bhairava. I do not know if it was samadhi, or > merely a dhyana state, but regardless it was the high point of my experience > of consciousness. I think we can reach God by ourselves, and I think the > Bhagavad Gita and other texts are quite clear on that point. Bhakti, and > Karma Yoga and all of these things do not require a guru. I am inclined to > think that even Jnana Yoga would be possible without a Guru. I even think > that Laya yoga could be achieved without a Guru with enough persistance, > because God Herself would be the Guru and reward someone who had the right > effort. But as far as Tantra itself goes, it seems to be a fairly solid > injunction to have a Guru. Then there is the issue that even if one did > enough solid > research and performed the sadhanas in an identical manner to someone who > did receive diksha, that the practice would be entirely useless without that > blessing. I suppose intention is the main thing, too. Anyway I am not trying > to be dogmatic, but these are my thoughts. > > Marissa > > ________________________________ > rohri mani <rohri_mani <rohri_mani%40>> > > > Guru is like a walking stick. If you are handicapped (physically/ > spiritually) you need a walking stick (guru) to walk. If you are not > handicapped then the walking stick is useless. > > Regards > Sanjeev > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 All this applies only to people who engaged in spiritual practice with an expectation of achieving something, in which case it is the brain and mind that goes in search of Guru. For a person engaging in spiritual practices without any expectations (not even that of achieving realization), the innate Soul knows to reach the Guru by Itself. Because for such a being, God Itself comes down as Guru and will reach the individual. The individual doesn't have to go in search of Guru. The fact that someone asks this question " Is a Guru absolutely necessary? " itself is a characterization of the individual who is running in search of Guru as his/her engagement in spiritual practice is self-centered (no matter how he/she tries to explain or justify it) and has expectations. At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > >Well, sometimes finding out something 'bad' about a teacher can help us >assess our reaction to them, and our relationship with them. Maybe it's not >a healthy relationship and needs to be rethought. Maybe they are not the >right teacher for us. This is why it's good to spend a year or two really >checking out a teacher before committing fully to them, and to wait for them >to ask us to join them. But so few of us are patient enough to do this! I'm >a very impatient person, but Tantra has taught me through good times and bad >that patience really and truly is a helpful virtue, and that there are no >shortcuts to real progress. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I think you are propagating a negative path of spirituality by making fun of people who are seeking spiritual path or guru. People who are master with words; play with it, mix it with their own inherent negativity and limited knowledge; make others look like fools. The best example is your last paragraph. The whole mail is emitting negative energy. Try to guide spiritual seekers, instead of criticizing, if you got that much wisdom or keep silent.RegardsRohri --- On Sun, 12/27/09, Shakti Thondan <sakthithondan wrote: Shakti Thondan <sakthithondan All this applies only to people who engaged in spiritual practice with an expectation of achieving something, in which case it is the brain and mind that goes in search of Guru. For a person engaging in spiritual practices without any expectations (not even that of achieving realization) , the innate Soul knows to reach the Guru by Itself. Because for such a being, God Itself comes down as Guru and will reach the individual. The individual doesn't have to go in search of Guru.  The fact that someone asks this question " Is a Guru absolutely necessary? " itself is a characterization of the individual who is running in search of Guru as his/her engagement in spiritual practice is self-centered (no matter how he/she tries to explain or justify it) and has expectations. At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Dear Rohri Mani,    I merely alluded to the fact that there is no need for asking questions like " do we need Guru or not? "  Except for child prodigys even in physical sciences, one needs 'Teachers' to grow and evolve. The Spiritual Science is not any different. Even Jesus Christ was baptized by 'John The Baptist " . Even Lord Rama encountered 12 Rishis as Gurus who initiated Rama and taught him various mantras and warefare. Lord Buddha had several 'Gurus' teach Him the path, before he went and sat in seclusion under Bodhi Tree. So, the question whether a Guru is absolutely necessary is in vain for a True Saadhakaa. Please show us one Saadhakaa who has realized God, especially Mother Shakti (which is what this group is all about) without seeking guidance from at least one Guru in his/her life.    I still maintain my stand - " A True Sadhaka who worships Mother with no expectations will receive Mother Herself as a Guru in some form or the other. " All this means is " Continue your practices without expecting or desiring anything " What is negativity in this?  At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan ________________________________ rohri mani <rohri_mani I think you are propagating a negative path of spirituality by making fun of people who are seeking spiritual path or guru. People who are master with words; play with it, mix it with their own inherent negativity and limited knowledge; make others look like fools. The best example is your last paragraph. The whole mail is emitting negative energy. Try to guide spiritual seekers, instead of criticizing, if you got that much wisdom or keep silent.RegardsRohri --- On Sun, 12/27/09, Shakti Thondan <sakthithondan@ > wrote: The fact that someone asks this question " Is a Guru absolutely necessary? " itself is a characterization of the individual who is running in search of Guru as his/her engagement in spiritual practice is self-centered (no matter how he/she tries to explain or justify it) and has expectations. At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 My Dear Friends, I dont have much knowledge on Spiritual things. I think Spiritualism had originated from Spirit, what is called as Bhuta, Preta ,or Atma etc. In general what we canot see but may have a feel of it. There are various ways or process to obtain the highest level. Two most popular way  to obtain spiritual power are " I am everything " , the other one its complement that is " I am nothing " . It is like Black hole vs White hole; Zero vs Infinity. As a human it is impossible to achieve these states. These are defined as the state of GOD. Now if we like to achieve the state of " I am nothing " or " Dasa " State, it is easier with respect to " I am everything " or " Aham Brahmashmi " state. In this case we dont need a Guru. If we choose the process of " I am the Brahma " , Yes we need to choose a Guru. A Guru is a person, who know the details of the complete process of meditation and can Guide. But he need not be an enlightened person. The reason is that the process of " Sakti Sadhana " need to be kept as very secret and to be tought to right person. This is required to avoid any damage to the society. For kind information to all members to the best of my knowledge. --- On Mon, 28/12/09, rohri mani <rohri_mani wrote: I think you are propagating a negative path of spirituality by making fun of people who are seeking spiritual path or guru. People who are master with words; play with it, mix it with their own inherent negativity and limited knowledge; make others look like fools. The best example is your last paragraph. The whole mail is emitting negative energy. Try to guide spiritual seekers, instead of criticizing, if you got that much wisdom or keep silent.RegardsRohri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi Marissa I am happy you were able to experience various states of meditation on your own. My take on Guru is this. If you are pure in your heart and your mind is empty or clear without distractions, you will be able to move up the spiritual ladder. I have found most women are pure like a child and most men have their mind disturbed. Ultimately, why do we need a Guru? to attain that ultimate knowledge of 'Who am I' and who is God. Even though we have read and believe that God and we are one our ego continues to separate us . We need a Guru who will guide us through to go up the spiritual ladder. Ultimately even Guru has to let go our hands to undertake the final path to become one with God. We can go up on our own if we are able to get in touch with the right knowledge .Just like modern day power coaching camps of Anthony Robbins etc Guru will be able to take you through shorter route whereas the path alone is trial and error and may take a longer time and many more births. It is not difficult to get the right Guru for our selves. There is no need to search and validate. leave that job to your Ishta Devatha or your favorite God > I learnt this from a christian girl who was teaching young children. She was chanting 'Hail Mary' continuously for days. One day she was directed to a Guru and that Guru is guiding her now. I too chanted our family deity or kula deivam. One day the Guru, Shri Ganapathi Sachidananda of Mysore (www.dattapeetham.com) pulled me into His fold. That was interesting. He was my wife's mother's guru and I accompanied her to attend His music sessions. They announced that we could have a personal interview with Swamiji and it costs only Rs3000. i had the money but i said i didnt have the money as i thought who will spend Rs3000 to meet a Swami. Surprisingly the temple priest took out Rs3000 and forced into my wife's hand and pushed us inside . Thereafter many more experiences happened and now I happy that i was able to travel up many more levels since then though His guidance. There is no need to be constantly in touch in person to get Guru's messages. Once met and established links with the Guru we could be separated miles apart and meeting once a year. However Guru's messages and His blessings will keep comming to you whenever we meditate keeping His image in our mind. The thoughts of Guru helps to focus our mind during meditation. Guru need not be there in person to give instructions of guidance. It comes from everywhere. But it is said we should be steadfast in having 100% faith on the Guru and should not be changing one that confuses us. The message given by all are almost the same. The difference is in how they convey it suiting our temperament. Guru is above God however next to mother and father. Once our Favorite God identifies a Guru suiting our individuality our ascension is faster, safer and happier. Jaya Guru Datta Ramakrishnan On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Marissa R <marissaamber wrote: > > > Hi Sanjeev, > > I don't know. I have technically had a mystical experience several years > ago through my own personally composed sadhana of yoga, 2 hours of > meditation, and constant mindfulness with japa mantra. I was also using > techniques out of the Vijnana Bhairava. I do not know if it was samadhi, or > merely a dhyana state, but regardless it was the high point of my experience > of consciousness. I think we can reach God by ourselves, and I think the > Bhagavad Gita and other texts are quite clear on that point. Bhakti, and > Karma Yoga and all of these things do not require a guru. I am inclined to > think that even Jnana Yoga would be possible without a Guru. I even think > that Laya yoga could be achieved without a Guru with enough persistance, > because God Herself would be the Guru and reward someone who had the right > effort. But as far as Tantra itself goes, it seems to be a fairly solid > injunction to have a Guru. Then there is the issue that even if one did > enough solid > research and performed the sadhanas in an identical manner to someone who > did receive diksha, that the practice would be entirely useless without that > blessing. I suppose intention is the main thing, too. Anyway I am not trying > to be dogmatic, but these are my thoughts. > > Marissa > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 It is all by Guru's Grace, whether a physically incarnated one, the Shabd, or your own soul. The moment you stop seeking a Guru, Guru will manifest. But keep in mind, to stop seeking means surrendering. A total surrendering you your own Self. Remember, whether at Amrit Vela or during your Sadhana, it is the Guru who seeks you.  Sat Nam Adi Singh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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