Kali Mantra Initiation

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

Best Regards,

Charles

[Guest guest]

If you're sincere and you do silent mana japa of her mantra then you'll be

okay, but you must have much bhakti and devotion and never look back.

 

 

 

-

" cr_saba " <cr_saba

 

Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:38 PM

Kali Mantra Initiation

 

 

> Namaste,

>

> Thank you all for your help.

>

> Best Regards,

> Charles

>

[Guest guest]

IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI INITIATION .ACTUALLY

KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER

WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA.

RAJESH.M.R

 

 

 

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

 

 

[Guest guest]

The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi ( Ammachi ) I

am sure

She would give You Kali Mantra .

joanna

>

> Hari OM

>

> this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very very

> few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and

> preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He

> taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> 4.7.3/node/1249

>

> Jai Shree Maa

> Love baba

>

>

> , " ckannannair "

> <ckannannair@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> > Check the links below.It might help

> >

> > http://www.shreemaa.org/

> > http://mystictantra.com/index.html

> >

> > Shri Tripurave Hreem

> > Kannan

> >

> > , " cr_saba " <cr_saba@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello,

> > >

> > > Does anybody have information of where, or with who, one can

> > receive

> > > Kali mantra(puja) initiation ?

> > >

> > > I know Sringeri in PA does so for the Sri Vidya Puja, but it is

> > > very difficult to find one for Kali mantra.

> > >

> > > With Best Regards,

> > > Charles

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Rajesh,

 

No doubt this is how it should be done.

 

But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered

somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission

of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be.

 

I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in preserving

the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra

initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible

experience. They even have a complete list going back in the

transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it.

 

When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it

doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just

means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to

impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the guru-

disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So you

can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat-Guru

vows.

 

The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali

tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is what

the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning.

 

But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic lineage

of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I

sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param-

para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence.

 

The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the

initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be

sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the

line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone

present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception.

 

The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder is

another ball game :---)

 

Best Regards,

Charles

 

 

, Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam

wrote:

>

>

>

> IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI

INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER

DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA

DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA.

> RAJESH.M.R

>

>

>

> Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Joanna,

 

It is interesting you mention her.

 

I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way.

 

No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there are some

who are.

 

I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany him to see

her, here in my area.

 

To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the end was

dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable, I would just relax

and be receptive while I was there.

 

Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual

experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking at me. The

tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

 

These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly hard work,

and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, but I do, for whatever

it's worth, in shedding some light about her in an unbiased way.

 

Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that if anyone

can give Devi initiation, its her.

 

With Best Regards,

Charles

 

 

, " joannapollner "

<joannapollner wrote:

>

> The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi (

Ammachi ) I am sure

> She would give You Kali Mantra .

> joanna

> >

> > Hari OM

> >

> > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very

very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and

preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He

> > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> > 4.7.3/node/1249

> >

> > Jai Shree Maa

> > Love baba

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This darshan-by-Look is something Amma does most powerfully, and

usually in unexpected moments.

 

>Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual

>experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking

>at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

>

>These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly

>hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences,

>but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her

>in an unbiased way.

>

>Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that

>if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

 

--

Max Dashu

 

Art in Goddess Reverence

http://www.maxdashu.net

[Guest guest]

Hello Charles

 

thank You for sharing , well yes that is Ammachi behind the smile and

simplicity You have a huge power of Shakti both Her and Sri Karunamayi

are my Gurus and they both initiated me into Devi Mantras

Joanna

>

> Hello Joanna,

>

> It is interesting you mention her.

>

> I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way.

>

> No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there

are some who are.

>

> I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany

him to see her, here in my area.

>

> To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the

end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable,

I would just relax and be receptive while I was there.

>

> Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner

spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by

just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

>

> These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly

hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences,

but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her

in an unbiased way.

>

> Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression

that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

>

> With Best Regards,

> Charles

>

>

> , " joannapollner "

> <joannapollner@> wrote:

> >

> > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi (

> Ammachi ) I am sure

> > She would give You Kali Mantra .

> > joanna

> > >

> > > Hari OM

> > >

> > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very

> very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the

books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree

Maa and He

> > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> > > 4.7.3/node/1249

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Maa

> > > Love baba

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All

of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true

or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the

time, on the totality of circumstances.

 

And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of

notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively

meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can

be more than enough for others.

 

I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this

person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a

caveat is called for here.

 

DB

 

 

, " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote:

>

> Yes Rajesh,

>

> No doubt this is how it should be done.

>

> But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered

> somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission

> of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be.

>

> I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in

preserving

> the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra

> initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible

> experience. They even have a complete list going back in the

> transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it.

>

> When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it

> doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just

> means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to

> impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the

guru-

> disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So

you

> can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat-

Guru

> vows.

>

> The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali

> tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is

what

> the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning.

>

> But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic

lineage

> of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I

> sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param-

> para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence.

>

> The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the

> initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be

> sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the

> line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone

> present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception.

>

> The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder

is

> another ball game :---)

>

> Best Regards,

> Charles

>

>

> , Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI

> INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER

> DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA

> DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA.

> > RAJESH.M.R

> >

> >

> >

> > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question

is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it.

 

Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is

ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is

durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the

sadhaka is ready to receive its grace.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

 

, " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote:

>

> Hello Joanna,

>

> It is interesting you mention her.

>

> I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way.

>

> No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But

there are some who are.

>

> I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany

him to see her, here in my area.

>

> To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the

end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation

bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there.

>

> Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner

spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by

just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

>

> These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been

mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these

experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some

light about her in an unbiased way.

>

> Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression

that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

>

> With Best Regards,

> Charles

>

>

> , " joannapollner "

> <joannapollner@> wrote:

> >

> > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi

(

> Ammachi ) I am sure

> > She would give You Kali Mantra .

> > joanna

> > >

> > > Hari OM

> > >

> > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very

> very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the

books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja -

Shree Maa and He

> > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> > > 4.7.3/node/1249

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Maa

> > > Love baba

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----)

 

These are just fact findings.

 

The lineages are not how they used to be,

they have either disbanded, became diluted, or

stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas

have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps

with or without the transmission shakti-pat.

 

But if you approach someone like Ammachi, all this

doesn't really matter.

 

As far as myself, I am nothing. As far as my spiritual

attainments, not much. It's all been continuous work till this

very day.

 

What I say, I do just to share with other truthseekers.

 

Love & Peace

Charles

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All

of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true

or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the

time, on the totality of circumstances.

 

And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of

notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively

meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can

be more than enough for others.

 

I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this

person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a

caveat is called for here.

 

DB

 

 

, " cr_saba " wrote:

>

> Yes Rajesh,

>

> No doubt this is how it should be done.

>

> But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered

> somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission

> of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be.

>

> I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in

preserving

> the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra

> initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible

> experience. They even have a complete list going back in the

> transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it.

>

> When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it

> doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just

> means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to

> impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the

guru-

> disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So

you

> can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat-

Guru

> vows.

>

> The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali

> tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is

what

> the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning.

>

> But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic

lineage

> of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I

> sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param-

> para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence.

>

> The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the

> initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be

> sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the

> line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone

> present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception.

>

> The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder

is

> another ball game :---)

>

> Best Regards,

> Charles

>

>

> , Rajesh MR

> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI

> INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER

> DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA

> DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA.

> > RAJESH.M.R

> >

> >

> >

> > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm sure Ammachi would know who is fit for what...

 

And even more important than effort, is spiritual sincerity...

deep sincerity... without it you won't even attract

the Guru in the first place...

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question

is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it.

 

Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is

ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is

durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the

sadhaka is ready to receive its grace.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

 

, " cr_saba " wrote:

>

> Hello Joanna,

>

> It is interesting you mention her.

>

> I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way.

>

> No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But

there are some who are.

>

> I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany

him to see her, here in my area.

>

> To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the

end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation

bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there.

>

> Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner

spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by

just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

>

> These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been

mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these

experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some

light about her in an unbiased way.

>

> Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression

that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

>

> With Best Regards,

> Charles

>

>

> , " joannapollner "

> wrote:

> >

> > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi

(

> Ammachi ) I am sure

> > She would give You Kali Mantra .

> > joanna

> > >

> > > Hari OM

> > >

> > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very

> very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the

books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja -

Shree Maa and He

> > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> > > 4.7.3/node/1249

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Maa

> > > Love baba

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

very wisely stated indeed that is the case . joanna

>

> Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question

> is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it.

>

> Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is

> ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is

> durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the

> sadhaka is ready to receive its grace.

>

> aim mAtangyai namaH

>

> , " cr_saba " <cr_saba@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Joanna,

> >

> > It is interesting you mention her.

> >

> > I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way.

> >

> > No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But

> there are some who are.

> >

> > I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany

> him to see her, here in my area.

> >

> > To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the

> end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation

> bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there.

> >

> > Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner

> spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by

> just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

> >

> > These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been

> mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these

> experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some

> light about her in an unbiased way.

> >

> > Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression

> that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

> >

> > With Best Regards,

> > Charles

> >

> >

> > , " joannapollner "

> > <joannapollner@> wrote:

> > >

> > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi

> (

> > Ammachi ) I am sure

> > > She would give You Kali Mantra .

> > > joanna

> > > >

> > > > Hari OM

> > > >

> > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very

> > very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the

> books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja -

> Shree Maa and He

> > > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal-

> > > > 4.7.3/node/1249

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shree Maa

> > > > Love baba

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I do feel that asking either Ammachi or Sri Karunamayi for guidence on Spiritual

path is

like asking Devi Herself , I do agree that to find a pure lineage now days must

be truly

difficult , so I prefer to ask Devi directly )) hmmm possibly in person too .

>

> Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----)

>

> These are just fact findings.

>

> The lineages are not how they used to be,

> they have either disbanded, became diluted, or

> stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas

> have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps

> with or without the transmission shakti-pat.

>

> But if you approach someone like Ammachi, all this

> doesn't really matter.

>

> As far as myself, I am nothing. As far as my spiritual

> attainments, not much. It's all been continuous work till this

> very day.

>

> What I say, I do just to share with other truthseekers.

>

> Love & Peace

> Charles

>

> Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

> But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All

> of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true

> or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the

> time, on the totality of circumstances.

>

> And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of

> notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively

> meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can

> be more than enough for others.

>

> I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this

> person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a

> caveat is called for here.

>

> DB

>

[Guest guest]

, CSaba <cr_saba wrote:

>

> Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----)

>

> These are just fact findings.

>

> The lineages are not how they used to be,

> they have either disbanded, became diluted, or

> stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas

> have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps

> with or without the transmission shakti-pat.

>

 

 

Yes indeed those are YOUR facts. Its because you have not encounter

any one of them in person as yet. You assume whatever you think of

Ammachi one fact remain is that she has no direct lineage. You all

can think whatever you believe, if you like to believe she as DEVI

herself, its find with me but please .......

 

As I have spoken this many times to DB and Kochu, I like to make it

public here, I have nothing against her. I do believe Ammachi is

just a simple minded siddha and a humble one. Its the sishya and

those around her who like to exaggerate. The same with tantric sex,

which have been blown out of proportion that gives tantrism a bad

name. Why because there are out there so many people who are

sexually deprived.

 

Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

 

DEVI forgive me for saying this!. This what makes me sick and

depress whenever I hear Ammachi name being mention. She have become

an advertisement gimmick.

 

I remembered a patient who have had his left lower leg amputated.

Even after being amputated, he still claimed to be able to feel his

leg. He still complaint of the pain. Then another lady who really

believe she is pregnant. She began to show signs of pregnancy :

morning sickness etc despite showing all the results that she is

not. The bulging abdomen is nothing but accumulation of fluid in the

abdominal cavity.

 

Now..... what did Ammachi herself said about the MIND?

[Guest guest]

[1] Devi Bhakta,

 

I didn't notice your second paragraph. You need to know: " Not everyone

clueless. "

 

Having lived in India, I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what

really goes in India. So lets not go there. Most people here in States can be

fooled and or confused, but everyone.

 

The truth is, if people here knew the right spiritual books to read from the

beginning and the right people to meet, the pseudo-intellectuals would be out of

a job real fast. So don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy just because of 18

tantric initiations.

 

I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to impress.

 

As a matter of fact, I have few initiations compared to the dedicated ones.

These folks have received entire cycles of initiations, which can add up to 60

easily, and can take 2-3 months full time to recieve.

 

You should be happy for others, and encourage them in their efforts. Don't

mislead or confuse others.

 

 

[2] Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All

of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true

or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the

time, on the totality of circumstances.

 

And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of

notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively

meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can

be more than enough for others.

 

I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this

person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a

caveat is called for here.

 

DB

 

 

[3] Buddha didn't have a lineage either, yet he was the BUDDHA...

 

The same applies with Amma...

 

These are not my facts, these are THE facts.

 

Love & Peace,

Charles

 

NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote:

, CSaba wrote:

>

> Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----)

>

> These are just fact findings.

>

> The lineages are not how they used to be,

> they have either disbanded, became diluted, or

> stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas

> have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps

> with or without the transmission shakti-pat.

>

 

 

Yes indeed those are YOUR facts. Its because you have not encounter

any one of them in person as yet. You assume whatever you think of

Ammachi one fact remain is that she has no direct lineage. You all

can think whatever you believe, if you like to believe she as DEVI

herself, its find with me but please .......

 

As I have spoken this many times to DB and Kochu, I like to make it

public here, I have nothing against her. I do believe Ammachi is

just a simple minded siddha and a humble one. Its the sishya and

those around her who like to exaggerate. The same with tantric sex,

which have been blown out of proportion that gives tantrism a bad

name. Why because there are out there so many people who are

sexually deprived.

 

Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

 

DEVI forgive me for saying this!. This what makes me sick and

depress whenever I hear Ammachi name being mention. She have become

an advertisement gimmick.

 

I remembered a patient who have had his left lower leg amputated.

Even after being amputated, he still claimed to be able to feel his

leg. He still complaint of the pain. Then another lady who really

believe she is pregnant. She began to show signs of pregnancy :

morning sickness etc despite showing all the results that she is

not. The bulging abdomen is nothing but accumulation of fluid in the

abdominal cavity.

 

Now..... what did Ammachi herself said about the MIND?

 

[4] Joan,

 

Your so right about that !!!

 

I guess I'll have to wait till next year when she comes again.

 

All good things to those who wait... :-----)

 

Are there any special procedures to follow that

I may need to know ahead of time ?

 

Best Regards,

Charles

 

joannapollner <joannapollner wrote:

I do feel that asking either Ammachi or Sri Karunamayi for guidence on

Spiritual path is

like asking Devi Herself , I do agree that to find a pure lineage now days must

be truly

difficult , so I prefer to ask Devi directly )) hmmm possibly in person too .

>

[Guest guest]

>Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

>Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

>with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

>spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

 

Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more

than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way,

but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get

someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be

plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual

materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and

aware people.

 

You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown

any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying

to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into

an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list.

Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do.

 

If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is

there to be said.

 

Max

--

Max Dashu

 

Art in Goddess Reverence

http://www.maxdashu.net

[Guest guest]

Nora : Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

> >Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

> >with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

> >spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

 

 

Max Dashu wrote: Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is

doing is no more

> than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this

way,

> but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get

> someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be

> plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual

> materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and

> aware people.

 

 

Yes! that is how I have seen her to become. You all may disagree,

find with me. But these are what I see and I have several who have

express agreement with me in the net and in person verbally.

[Guest guest]

That is simply ridiculous , conservative lineage Who believe only through them a

Divine

can flow and only they have right to initiate is sort of controlling power . If

You see a

Mahatma with open heart and a true Mahatma is simple and humble , no one is

advertising Amma making a simple selling trick , but I think it could be the

forum likes

traditional lineage which if true are also beautiful ( but at the same time that

is like

saying if You do not come from family of Doctors how can You bee a doctor )

well

things happen . Sometimes God does not choose a lineage and comes in simple

humble

form.

>

> >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

> >Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

> >with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

> >spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

>

> Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more

> than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way,

> but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get

> someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be

> plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual

> materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and

> aware people.

>

> You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown

> any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying

> to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into

> an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list.

> Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do.

>

> If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is

> there to be said.

>

> Max

> --

> Max Dashu

>

> Art in Goddess Reverence

> http://www.maxdashu.net

>

[Guest guest]

I raised money for her after Katrina, but I have never met her and have no

connection. But I like her. I would like to meet her someday. Maybe if she

ever comes to New Orleans.

 

-

" Max Dashu " <maxdashu

 

Monday, September 17, 2007 12:42 PM

Re: Kali Mantra Initiation

 

 

> This darshan-by-Look is something Amma does most powerfully, and

> usually in unexpected moments.

>

>>Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual

>>experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking

>>at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly.

>>

>>These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly

>>hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences,

>>but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her

>>in an unbiased way.

>>

>>Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that

>>if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her.

>

> --

> Max Dashu

>

> Art in Goddess Reverence

> http://www.maxdashu.net

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, after graduating MIU I have attended many tantric initiations myself

mostly of Vajrayana and even though I have met awesome beings I usually

brought the shaktipat for everyone. Just an idle brag. Most Buddhists not

having much shakti due to not propitiating many devas. Of course I am not

meaning the lamas. Or the lineages which have more than shakti (or less) or

both, in the form of - merit. Something which itself is very potent.

 

-

" Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta

 

Monday, September 17, 2007 3:22 PM

Re: Kali Mantra Initiation

 

 

> But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All

> of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true

> or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the

> time, on the totality of circumstances.

>

> And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of

> notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively

> meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can

> be more than enough for others.

>

> I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this

> person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a

> caveat is called for here.

>

> DB

>

>

> , " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote:

>>

>> Yes Rajesh,

>>

>> No doubt this is how it should be done.

>>

>> But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered

>> somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission

>> of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be.

>>

>> I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in

> preserving

>> the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra

>> initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible

>> experience. They even have a complete list going back in the

>> transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it.

>>

>> When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it

>> doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just

>> means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to

>> impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the

> guru-

>> disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So

> you

>> can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat-

> Guru

>> vows.

>>

>> The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali

>> tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is

> what

>> the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning.

>>

>> But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic

> lineage

>> of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I

>> sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param-

>> para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence.

>>

>> The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the

>> initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be

>> sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the

>> line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone

>> present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception.

>>

>> The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder

> is

>> another ball game :---)

>>

>> Best Regards,

>> Charles

>>

>>

>> , Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam@>

>> wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI

>> INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER

>> DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA

>> DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA.

>> > RAJESH.M.R

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Obviously people find that to do service to her - seva is a big thing. I

know that huge swaths of Ex-TM people follow her now just because of this

thing they perceive to be 'heart-value' or bhakti, they having tired of more

serious paths.

Or course my wonder is always is there some real lasting wisdom to be gained

or is it - as Nora says - just a new brand of permission to be acting

spiritual. In which case it really is better to find that spirit within

rather than without. But then again, we are material creatures, like it or

not, and we need our idols. She therefore is a living Purana.

 

 

-

" Max Dashu " <maxdashu

 

Monday, September 17, 2007 10:04 PM

Re: Kali Mantra Initiation

 

 

> >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

>>Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

>>with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

>>spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

>

> Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more

> than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way,

> but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get

> someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be

> plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual

> materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and

> aware people.

>

> You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown

> any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying

> to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into

> an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list.

> Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do.

>

> If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is

> there to be said.

>

> Max

> --

> Max Dashu

>

> Art in Goddess Reverence

> http://www.maxdashu.net

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Quite frankly I am surprised this is Shakti Sadhana Group with such narrow

minded point

of view , Ammachi can also instill in You a serious Path if that is what you are

seeking

besides is Bhakti Heart Value not serious enough, do You really need to be so

serious

anyway , She can offer any Path for You only if You are ready and open . It is

then bit

strange that in a Serious group like this people would freely jump at judging

great

Mahatmas, Why because they consider their lineage the purest and best most

original,

most connected to the source?. Such opinions are simply showing lack of

spiritual

maturity. Always my best regards to All Gurus to All Paths and their given

lineages

joanna

>

> Obviously people find that to do service to her - seva is a big thing. I

> know that huge swaths of Ex-TM people follow her now just because of this

> thing they perceive to be 'heart-value' or bhakti, they having tired of more

> serious paths.

> Or course my wonder is always is there some real lasting wisdom to be gained

> or is it - as Nora says - just a new brand of permission to be acting

> spiritual. In which case it really is better to find that spirit within

> rather than without. But then again, we are material creatures, like it or

> not, and we need our idols. She therefore is a living Purana.

>

>

> -

> " Max Dashu " <maxdashu

>

> Monday, September 17, 2007 10:04 PM

> Re: Kali Mantra Initiation

>

>

> > >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as

> >>Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around

> >>with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those

> >>spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net.

> >

> > Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more

> > than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way,

> > but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get

> > someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be

> > plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual

> > materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and

> > aware people.

> >

> > You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown

> > any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying

> > to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into

> > an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list.

> > Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do.

> >

> > If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is

> > there to be said.

> >

> > Max

> > --

> > Max Dashu

> >

> > Art in Goddess Reverence

> > http://www.maxdashu.net

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Charles:

 

You wrote:

 

*** You need to know: " Not everyone clueless. " ***

 

I can only speak for myself: definitely clueless. *lol*

 

*** I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what really

goes in India.***

 

You may be the first. ;-)

 

*** It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy

just because of 18 tantric initiations. ***

 

Since my co-moderator Durga also pointed out that my reply to you

had a " slightly sarcastic " tone, I guess I had that one coming. For

the sake of the group's peace and sanity, I will stop the " lingam-

polishing " escalation here. *lol*

 

*** I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to impress.

***

 

Me too, in fact. And I will say it again: In this field, quantity

matters not. For some sadhakas one initiation is more than enough;

others may feel the need for dozens. Neither type of sadhaka

is " wrong " ; neither approach is incorrect. It is completely

subjective; what is proper in any particular case is determined by

the guru in light of a given sadhaka’s needs.

 

Durga asked me: " Did you feel he [Charles] was trying to show off? I

mean, trying to imply that he is one of the few who has been given

diksha by a guru from a solid lineage? "

 

I replied: Whether he was or wasn’t showing off is immaterial.

Whether a lineage is " solid " and whether a diksha is legitimate are -

- at least in many cases -- also subjective questions. I am certain

that Charles would disagree, but in my opinion these are simply not

the sorts of things upon which any one person can make accurate

pronouncements that apply to all.

 

Charles said: *** As a matter of fact, I have few initiations

compared to the dedicated ones. ***

 

And yet again, I will reply it is a subjective call. I would agree

that many serious sadhakas have multiple initiations. But I also

know some extremely accomplished sadhaks who have only one or two,

even after several decades of intense practice †" and I would count

great siddhas among these. They too are " dedicated ones, " I submit.

 

Now, if you wish to believe that my comments are personal to you,

and motivated by jealousy, envy, and so on, that is certainly your

prerogative. In fact, however, my position is addressed generally to

the group, and predicated on the teachings of my own satguru, who

said:

 

" Sapta koti maha mantrah [70 million mantras] are said to have

emanated from the five faces of Shiva. [...] Fortunately, however,

it is not necessary to practice all of them. Why complicate your

life? Simplify it! How much can you achieve in a 100-year lifetime

anyway? A hundred years isn't even a given yet; at best, you can

probably start off at age 15 and keep going until you're 60 or 70.

So you have maybe 50 years to work with. And in those 50 years, how

many mantras can you get the siddhis of? Every one of them works;

all of the Dasha Mahavidyas work †" so pick one path and stick to it.

What's the point in reaching the same destination from all different

directions? Each path offers its own unique experiences along the

way, yes; but the goal remains the same. "

 

You may feel differently, and that is your right. But this -- no

more and no less -- is the point I am trying to make.

 

Charles said: *** These are not my facts, these are THE facts. ***

 

And I respectfully disagree.

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

[Guest guest]

If u are given saambahavi deeksha by a competent guru why run for a

number of deekshaas.One well dug well is enough to drink for a

lifetime then why go on digging little pits. When u have the

sarvamantraasana vidya what use with other vidyaas?

 

- In , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta

wrote:

>

> Hi Charles:

>

> You wrote:

>

> *** You need to know: " Not everyone clueless. " ***

>

> I can only speak for myself: definitely clueless. *lol*

>

> *** I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what

really

> goes in India.***

>

> You may be the first. ;-)

>

> *** It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy

> just because of 18 tantric initiations. ***

>

> Since my co-moderator Durga also pointed out that my reply to you

> had a " slightly sarcastic " tone, I guess I had that one coming.

For

> the sake of the group's peace and sanity, I will stop the " lingam-

> polishing " escalation here. *lol*

>

> *** I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to

impress.

> ***

>

> Me too, in fact. And I will say it again: In this field, quantity

> matters not. For some sadhakas one initiation is more than enough;

> others may feel the need for dozens. Neither type of sadhaka

> is " wrong " ; neither approach is incorrect. It is completely

> subjective; what is proper in any particular case is determined by

> the guru in light of a given sadhaka’s needs.

>

> Durga asked me: " Did you feel he [Charles] was trying to show off?

I

> mean, trying to imply that he is one of the few who has been given

> diksha by a guru from a solid lineage? "

>

> I replied: Whether he was or wasn’t showing off is immaterial.

> Whether a lineage is " solid " and whether a diksha is legitimate

are -

> - at least in many cases -- also subjective questions. I am

certain

> that Charles would disagree, but in my opinion these are simply

not

> the sorts of things upon which any one person can make accurate

> pronouncements that apply to all.

>

> Charles said: *** As a matter of fact, I have few initiations

> compared to the dedicated ones. ***

>[....]