about SrIcakrAs

[Guest guest]

From :- Lanka Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao}

Subject :- About SrI yantrAs

SrIguruh sarvakAraNBhUtA

Saktih |

SrI mahA gaNAdhipatayE

namah ||

priya mahASayAh,

The following verse is the 15th one in the " sowndarya

lahari " composed by SrI Adi SankarAcArya.

" Sarat jyOtsnASuddAm SaSiyuta jatAjUta makuTam

Vara trAsa trANa sPatika GatikA pustaka karAm |

SakR^innatwA kathamiva satAm

sannidadhatE

madhu kSIra drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh PhNitayah || "

Unless one has ever prostrated before you, who is

lustrously glowing like the autumnal moonlight, having lunar crescent

upon the crown over the dressed hair, and wearing a crystal rosary,

varada mudra, aBhaya mudra and the book in all the four hands, how

anyone could dole out poetry elegant like honey, milk and the sap of

grapes? !

This is the commonly understood meaning of the above

verse. But for a person with an intense desire to achieve the

eternal emancipation, can this be an advice given by the jagadguru?

Has he to go to the court of a king or any others to please them and

earn money and fame? In my opinion, there should be some esoteric

meaning also behind this superficially understood meaning. Let us

search for it.

The above Sloka appears to be indicative of " Saraswati " ,

who is the goddess of speech {vak devata). But the book " sowndarya

lahari " was intended in praise of " LalitA mahA tripurasundari " . Is

Sarasawati and Lalita are one and same? Yes, it must be so.

" rUpairanEkair bahuhudhAtma mUrtim, kritwAmbikE tat prakarOti

kAnyA "

Just as all the thee crores of devatAs are only the

extensions of LalitAdevi who is " sarvAnatItya lalati " , this saraswati

also is just an extension from her.

In the Lalita sahasranAma, the devi was praised with

the names as " brAhmI " , " vAgadhIswarI " , " vAgvAdinI " , " mAtR^ikA

varNarUpiNI " , " SAntyatItakalAtmikA " and also as " saraswatI " .

So it is evident that both are one and the same.

This paradEvata, lalitA mahAtripurasundari, has got

thee varieties of configuration, " sthUla " , " sUkShma " and " kAraNa "

forms. The `SthUla dEha' is described as " caturBhujE

candrakalAvatamsE kucOnnatE kunkuma rAga SONE----- " etc., The second

one `sUkShma dEha' is " pancadaSi mantra akSharAs " and the third

one `kAraNadEha' is " tEjOrUpam " or `jnAna rUpam' (sOham or sAham

jnAnam)

" stree rUpam vA smarEd dEvIm, pum rUpam vA smarEd

athavA niShkalam dhyAyEt "

In fact, the god, whatever name he/she has, will not have any

body or form. But every god has got innumerable forms. Every one is

having its own effigy. Lord Siva is symbolized in a Linga form.

viShnu in sAligramam, In the same way this lalitA mahA Tripura

sundari or rAjarAjESwarI parA BhattArikA also is having an effigy in

the name of a " SrIcakra " .

For any yOgi who is capable of subsiding all the external

earthly visualizations and introspectively ponder over the ten

chakras in his own body may not be in need of any SrIcakra, but it

would be a proclaimed obligation for him to protect the sacred

SrIcahkra entrusted to him by his gurunAtha, just like a housewife

keeps the `mangal sUtra' fastened by her husband at the time of

marriage.

Just as any image (of any god) could be seen in three forms

as a painting upon a paper, a half protruded front side image with

flat back side and a full-fledged statue, fully carved both front and

back sides. The first one is called `BhUprastAra, the second one

is " kUrma prastAra " and the third one is " mEru prastAra "

Just as any other god is having innumerable forms and also

innumerable effigies in the form of different yantras, our lalitA

mahA Tripura sundari also is having innumerable forms of effigies in

the names of different SrIyantras.

A yantra is a kind of language to understand the details of any

particular thing. Language of recognizing other`s expression will be

in four ways. One is alphabetical (writing in letters), another is

numerical (writing a digit instead of writing many letters), another

one is gestural (showing signs with hands like come, go etc.,)and the

other one is symbolic (marking lines, curved and strait, to show the

direction of a route, or any instruction as, that there is a railway

line ahead or there is a school or a playground nearby). These

yantras also will come under the fourth category i e., symbolic of

directing the way to reach that particular deity or god. It all

describes how one has come out from his own abode dragged in to

the `jiiva' state by the influence of `mAya'.

The SrIcakras are innumerable in number, but mostly

considered are, in ten types. They are categorized so, according to

their lines and cones. They are

1.Bhadra cakram 2. vR^iddhi cakram 3. mahA cakram 4. SrIkaram cakram

5. SuBha cakram

6. kAmikam cakram 7. mOhakam cakram 8. Vyjayantam cakram 9. Jayantam

cakram and. 10.nandanam cakram.

Among these ten cakras, Bhadra cakram is the safest one and

can be worshiped by every one. This cakra is otherwise

called " BhUprastAra " , which consists of only lines drawn upon a flat

surface.

`kUrma prastAra' means the cakra having a tortoise like

appearance with a flat base upto the three avaraNAs and the rest upon

a dome like elevation upon the base. If that surface is drawn by

curved lines it is called " vR^iddhi cakra " and the same thing, if the

surface is carved with cones instead of the lines, it is called " mahA

cakra " . Both of these cakras are two types of `kUrmaprastha

cakrAs'. This `kUrmaprasth cakra' is also called as " kailAsaprastha

cakra " This cakra should be kept in the houses of " gR^ihasthIs,

worshipped regularly only according to the scriptures.

The chakra, carved in cones with all the AvaraNAs one step

upon another, from `BhUpura' to `bindu cakra', is called " mEru

prastAra " . It is highly essential that it should be worshipped only

by the `pUrNa dIkShita' sAdhakAs only, in accordance with the mantrAs

mentioned by the Agama SAstra. That pUrNadiikShita upAsaka only is

eligible to worship this `mEruprastAra cakra'with all the regular

services of obeisance according to samayAcAra only.

It is mentioned in the SrIvidyArNava tantra that mEruprastAra

is nityA tAdAtmaka and the kailAsa/kUrma prastAra is mAtR^ikA

tAdAtmya, and the BhUprastAra is vaSinyAtmaka. Also, it says

" mEru cakrEtu samhAra krama pUjA na vidyatE,

sR^iShtikramENa dEvESi pUjanIyam prayatnatah || "

For this, SrI lolla lakShmIdhara clarifies that samhArakrama pUja

means vAmAcAra method and the sR^iShtikrama is samayAcAra tradition.

It was also said,

" samhAra pUjA kailAsa prastArE2tra vidhIyatE

BhUprastArE mahESAni sthiti pUjA sadOttamA ||

sthitikramO gR^ihastasya samhAro vaninO yatEh

brahmacAriNa utpattih striyah sUdrasya cEShtatah|| "

Almost all the SAstrAs are loudly saying that if any one

performs vAmAcAra pUjA with mEru cakra, it destroys all

gratifications both in this and in other worlds too.

The descriptions of all the other SricakrAs are available in so many

tantra texts.

To arrive at this criterion of attaining untainted mind and

heart is most important for worshipping SrIcakra, this verse of

soundarya lahari ordains as " Sarat jyOtsnA suddhAm " .

In saying " SaSiyuta jaTAjUTa makuTAm " it indicates the `candra

manDala vikAsam'

The central point (nucleus) in the `bindu cakra' is the `guru swarUpa

sOma manDalam'. Determination to implement the instructions of ones

own gurunAtha itself is the " jatAkalpam "

` in saying " vara trAsa trANa sphatika ghatikA pustaka karAm " it

indicates as,

" varam " means the boon in the form of mantra pramAta, acquired by the

parampara.

" trAsa trANa " means – devoid of all the fears, I e., `mR^itunjayam'.

Or " aham sphuraNAtmaka SivO2ham BhAvam "

" sphatika GatikA " indicates an unsoiled bowl, I.e., " Siva Sakthi

sAmarasyAnandAmR^ita sEvanam " achieved after relentless `japa sAdhana'

" pustaka karAm " indicates persuasion in accordance with the teachings

of `vEda mArga'.

Having all these four affluences, (one should have)

" sakR^innatwA " prostrated flat before her even once. Or else,

" madhu kSiira drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh phaNitayah " In saying this,

it indicates that,

`madhu' means honey, the thing obtained from some

creatures (bees), after gathering it from so many places and

preserved at a safe place. This indicates the SrIcakra arcana

performed by the `uttamAdhikAri pUrNa dikShita upAsakAs, who have

attained the mantra, tantra and yantra siddhi as endowed by the

pAramparika AgamAs

" Sirah sthita gurOr daharasthA nAda vidyAyA parAvasAyi citkalArUpa

dEvyAtmanaScAdwaita BhAna sama kAlam sakalEndriyair viShayAn

BhunjAnas tajjanyAnanda dhArAmAtra viShayaka nirvikalpaka j~nAnaika

sAratayEtara niKila viShaya pramOShENa kancitkAlamavsthAnam "

Including this type of introvert `parA pUjA', along with the

extrovert `aparA pUjA' simultaneously performing in the exterior

SrIcakra implanting flowers etc., on its top, together with certain

and certain mantras in each of the " AvaraNA dEvatAs " .

It is possible for none other than the " pUIrNAhamBhAva BhAvitAs "

only.

The `kShiira " is the milk extracted from the cow, potable to

drink. This is also obtained with some effort. This is to be

performed upon a `kUrma cakra' by `madhyamAdhikAri upAsakAs in

accordance with the guidelines of Sriguru, doing `antaryajana'

and `bAhya yajana' simultaneously, doing `Shat cakra anusandhAna rUpa

navAvaraNa ShODaSOpacAra pUja' with a difference of `nitya and

naimittika anuShTAna', as said " parAparasya bAhyasya cidvyOmni

vilayah smR^itah "

" drAkSha " is simply taken from the plant and easily

eatable. ShODaSOpacAra pUja performed upon the BhUprastAra SrIcakra

by any one with `kavaca, stOtra, nAma' etc.,

" PaNitayah " means, Unless one is performing

Sricakraarcana in this way, in different ways

" kathamiva satAm sannidadhatE " how anything is not possible for

those

" madhurima dhuriiNAh " who attain the efficiency of making `amR^ita

utpAdanam'

krishnarao

[Guest guest]

Dear krishnarao garu,

 

Namaste. First of all please accept my humble prostrations as you

hail from illustrious gurumandali of shriyanandanatha.

 

What exactly is the " vama " element for samhara krama of Meru

prastara? (unless i use the literal makara-panchaka it does not be

vama). I want a convincing answer.

 

Now the 15th sloka is the saraswata prayoga of panchadasi. The 51

rosary beads and book in the hands of Mother indicates the " Bharati

Mantra Prayoga " of Antar and Bahir Matrika Nyasa. This nyasa

paddhati is also mentioned in Jnanarnava Tantra and also be

Mahidhara Acharya in his Bhuvaneshwari Stavah.

 

This upasana of " Bharati Mantra Prayoga " confer the vak siddhi and

the upasaka is able to compose wonderful poetry. Are not Kalidasa,

Muka Kavi, Sankara Bhagavatpada, Durvasah, etc. wonderful poets who

got the grace of Mother? Are not their works like Devi Panchastavi,

Chidgagana Chandrika, Muka Panchasati, Saundaryalahari, Arya Dwisati

wonderful compositions having kshira, madhu and draksha rasas?

 

If LS is the composition of 8 vak-devis having madhu, draksha and

kshira elements, why not any person who has the grace of these vak-

devis can compose the poetry having kshira, madhu and draksha rasas?

 

with regards,

sriram

 

 

, " krishnarao "

<sriparasukhanandanadha wrote:

>

> From :- Lanka Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao}

> Subject :- About SrI yantrAs

> SrIguruh sarvakAraNBhUtA

> Saktih |

> SrI mahA gaNAdhipatayE

> namah ||

> priya mahASayAh,

> The following verse is the 15th one in the " sowndarya

> lahari " composed by SrI Adi SankarAcArya.

> " Sarat jyOtsnASuddAm SaSiyuta jatAjUta makuTam

> Vara trAsa trANa sPatika GatikA pustaka karAm |

> SakR^innatwA kathamiva satAm

> sannidadhatE

> madhu kSIra drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh PhNitayah || "

> Unless one has ever prostrated before you, who is

> lustrously glowing like the autumnal moonlight, having lunar

crescent

> upon the crown over the dressed hair, and wearing a crystal

rosary,

> varada mudra, aBhaya mudra and the book in all the four hands, how

> anyone could dole out poetry elegant like honey, milk and the sap

of

> grapes? !

> This is the commonly understood meaning of the above

> verse. But for a person with an intense desire to achieve the

> eternal emancipation, can this be an advice given by the

jagadguru?

> Has he to go to the court of a king or any others to please them

and

> earn money and fame? In my opinion, there should be some esoteric

> meaning also behind this superficially understood meaning. Let us

> search for it.

> The above Sloka appears to be indicative

of " Saraswati " ,

> who is the goddess of speech {vak devata). But the

book " sowndarya

> lahari " was intended in praise of " LalitA mahA tripurasundari " .

Is

> Sarasawati and Lalita are one and same? Yes, it must be so.

> " rUpairanEkair bahuhudhAtma mUrtim, kritwAmbikE tat

prakarOti

> kAnyA "

> Just as all the thee crores of devatAs are only the

> extensions of LalitAdevi who is " sarvAnatItya lalati " , this

saraswati

> also is just an extension from her.

> In the Lalita sahasranAma, the devi was praised with

> the names as " brAhmI " , " vAgadhIswarI " , " vAgvAdinI " , " mAtR^ikA

> varNarUpiNI " , " SAntyatItakalAtmikA " and also as " saraswatI " .

> So it is evident that both are one and the

same.

> This paradEvata, lalitA mahAtripurasundari, has got

> thee varieties of configuration, " sthUla " , " sUkShma " and " kAraNa "

> forms. The `SthUla dEha' is described as " caturBhujE

> candrakalAvatamsE kucOnnatE kunkuma rAga SONE----- " etc., The

second

> one `sUkShma dEha' is " pancadaSi mantra akSharAs " and the third

> one `kAraNadEha' is " tEjOrUpam " or `jnAna rUpam' (sOham or sAham

> jnAnam)

> " stree rUpam vA smarEd dEvIm, pum rUpam vA smarEd

> athavA niShkalam dhyAyEt "

> In fact, the god, whatever name he/she has, will not have

any

> body or form. But every god has got innumerable forms. Every one

is

> having its own effigy. Lord Siva is symbolized in a Linga form.

> viShnu in sAligramam, In the same way this lalitA mahA Tripura

> sundari or rAjarAjESwarI parA BhattArikA also is having an effigy

in

> the name of a " SrIcakra " .

> For any yOgi who is capable of subsiding all the

external

> earthly visualizations and introspectively ponder over the ten

> chakras in his own body may not be in need of any SrIcakra, but it

> would be a proclaimed obligation for him to protect the sacred

> SrIcahkra entrusted to him by his gurunAtha, just like a housewife

> keeps the `mangal sUtra' fastened by her husband at the time of

> marriage.

> Just as any image (of any god) could be seen in three

forms

> as a painting upon a paper, a half protruded front side image with

> flat back side and a full-fledged statue, fully carved both front

and

> back sides. The first one is called `BhUprastAra, the second one

> is " kUrma prastAra " and the third one is " mEru prastAra "

> Just as any other god is having innumerable forms and

also

> innumerable effigies in the form of different yantras, our lalitA

> mahA Tripura sundari also is having innumerable forms of effigies

in

> the names of different SrIyantras.

> A yantra is a kind of language to understand the details of any

> particular thing. Language of recognizing other`s expression will

be

> in four ways. One is alphabetical (writing in letters), another

is

> numerical (writing a digit instead of writing many letters),

another

> one is gestural (showing signs with hands like come, go etc.,)and

the

> other one is symbolic (marking lines, curved and strait, to show

the

> direction of a route, or any instruction as, that there is a

railway

> line ahead or there is a school or a playground nearby). These

> yantras also will come under the fourth category i e., symbolic of

> directing the way to reach that particular deity or god. It all

> describes how one has come out from his own abode dragged in to

> the `jiiva' state by the influence of `mAya'.

> The SrIcakras are innumerable in number, but mostly

> considered are, in ten types. They are categorized so, according

to

> their lines and cones. They are

> 1.Bhadra cakram 2. vR^iddhi cakram 3. mahA cakram 4. SrIkaram

cakram

> 5. SuBha cakram

> 6. kAmikam cakram 7. mOhakam cakram 8. Vyjayantam cakram 9.

Jayantam

> cakram and. 10.nandanam cakram.

> Among these ten cakras, Bhadra cakram is the safest one

and

> can be worshiped by every one. This cakra is otherwise

> called " BhUprastAra " , which consists of only lines drawn upon a

flat

> surface.

> `kUrma prastAra' means the cakra having a tortoise like

> appearance with a flat base upto the three avaraNAs and the rest

upon

> a dome like elevation upon the base. If that surface is drawn by

> curved lines it is called " vR^iddhi cakra " and the same thing, if

the

> surface is carved with cones instead of the lines, it is

called " mahA

> cakra " . Both of these cakras are two types of `kUrmaprastha

> cakrAs'. This `kUrmaprasth cakra' is also called

as " kailAsaprastha

> cakra " This cakra should be kept in the houses of " gR^ihasthIs,

> worshipped regularly only according to the scriptures.

> The chakra, carved in cones with all the AvaraNAs one step

> upon another, from `BhUpura' to `bindu cakra', is called " mEru

> prastAra " . It is highly essential that it should be worshipped

only

> by the `pUrNa dIkShita' sAdhakAs only, in accordance with the

mantrAs

> mentioned by the Agama SAstra. That pUrNadiikShita upAsaka only

is

> eligible to worship this `mEruprastAra cakra'with all the regular

> services of obeisance according to samayAcAra only.

> It is mentioned in the SrIvidyArNava tantra that

mEruprastAra

> is nityA tAdAtmaka and the kailAsa/kUrma prastAra is mAtR^ikA

> tAdAtmya, and the BhUprastAra is vaSinyAtmaka. Also, it says

> " mEru cakrEtu samhAra krama pUjA na vidyatE,

> sR^iShtikramENa dEvESi pUjanIyam prayatnatah || "

> For this, SrI lolla lakShmIdhara clarifies that samhArakrama pUja

> means vAmAcAra method and the sR^iShtikrama is samayAcAra

tradition.

> It was also said,

> " samhAra pUjA kailAsa prastArE2tra vidhIyatE

> BhUprastArE mahESAni sthiti pUjA sadOttamA ||

> sthitikramO gR^ihastasya samhAro vaninO yatEh

> brahmacAriNa utpattih striyah sUdrasya cEShtatah|| "

> Almost all the SAstrAs are loudly saying that if any one

> performs vAmAcAra pUjA with mEru cakra, it destroys all

> gratifications both in this and in other worlds too.

> The descriptions of all the other SricakrAs are available in so

many

> tantra texts.

> To arrive at this criterion of attaining untainted mind

and

> heart is most important for worshipping SrIcakra, this verse of

> soundarya lahari ordains as " Sarat jyOtsnA suddhAm " .

> In saying " SaSiyuta jaTAjUTa makuTAm " it indicates the `candra

> manDala vikAsam'

> The central point (nucleus) in the `bindu cakra' is the `guru

swarUpa

> sOma manDalam'. Determination to implement the instructions of

ones

> own gurunAtha itself is the " jatAkalpam "

> ` in saying " vara trAsa trANa sphatika ghatikA pustaka karAm "

it

> indicates as,

> " varam " means the boon in the form of mantra pramAta, acquired by

the

> parampara.

> " trAsa trANa " means – devoid of all the fears, I e.,

`mR^itunjayam'.

> Or " aham sphuraNAtmaka SivO2ham BhAvam "

> " sphatika GatikA " indicates an unsoiled bowl, I.e., " Siva Sakthi

> sAmarasyAnandAmR^ita sEvanam " achieved after relentless `japa

sAdhana'

> " pustaka karAm " indicates persuasion in accordance with the

teachings

> of `vEda mArga'.

> Having all these four affluences, (one should have)

> " sakR^innatwA " prostrated flat before her even once. Or else,

> " madhu kSiira drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh phaNitayah " In saying

this,

> it indicates that,

> `madhu' means honey, the thing obtained from some

> creatures (bees), after gathering it from so many places and

> preserved at a safe place. This indicates the SrIcakra arcana

> performed by the `uttamAdhikAri pUrNa dikShita upAsakAs, who have

> attained the mantra, tantra and yantra siddhi as endowed by the

> pAramparika AgamAs

> " Sirah sthita gurOr daharasthA nAda vidyAyA parAvasAyi citkalArUpa

> dEvyAtmanaScAdwaita BhAna sama kAlam sakalEndriyair viShayAn

> BhunjAnas tajjanyAnanda dhArAmAtra viShayaka nirvikalpaka

j~nAnaika

> sAratayEtara niKila viShaya pramOShENa kancitkAlamavsthAnam "

> Including this type of introvert `parA pUjA', along with the

> extrovert `aparA pUjA' simultaneously performing in the exterior

> SrIcakra implanting flowers etc., on its top, together with

certain

> and certain mantras in each of the " AvaraNA dEvatAs " .

> It is possible for none other than the " pUIrNAhamBhAva BhAvitAs "

> only.

> The `kShiira " is the milk extracted from the cow, potable to

> drink. This is also obtained with some effort. This is to be

> performed upon a `kUrma cakra' by `madhyamAdhikAri upAsakAs in

> accordance with the guidelines of Sriguru, doing `antaryajana'

> and `bAhya yajana' simultaneously, doing `Shat cakra anusandhAna

rUpa

> navAvaraNa ShODaSOpacAra pUja' with a difference of `nitya and

> naimittika anuShTAna', as said " parAparasya bAhyasya cidvyOmni

> vilayah smR^itah "

> " drAkSha " is simply taken from the plant and easily

> eatable. ShODaSOpacAra pUja performed upon the BhUprastAra

SrIcakra

> by any one with `kavaca, stOtra, nAma' etc.,

> " PaNitayah " means, Unless one is performing

> Sricakraarcana in this way, in different ways

> " kathamiva satAm sannidadhatE " how anything is not possible for

> those

> " madhurima dhuriiNAh " who attain the efficiency of making `amR^ita

> utpAdanam'

> krishnarao

>

[Guest guest]

Dear all

 

Sloka 15 of Soundaryalahari : " " Unless one has ever prostrated before you,

...........and wearing a crystal rosary, varada mudra, aBhaya mudra and the book

in all the four hands, how anyone could dole out ..... " "

 

This description seems to fit exactly the dhyAna sloka of bAlA ammavaru. "

vidhrutha japapaTIka pusthaka abheethi hastha, ithara vara karraDyA phulla

kalhaara samstha "

 

bAlA is suppose to be bless the sAdhaka with vaak siddhi, provess in music and

vidhwath.

 

praNAms

Gopi

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> Dear krishnarao garu,

>

> Namaste. First of all please accept my humble prostrations as you

> hail from illustrious gurumandali of shriyanandanatha.

>

> What exactly is the " vama " element for samhara krama of Meru

> prastara? (unless i use the literal makara-panchaka it does not be

> vama). I want a convincing answer.

 

> Now the 15th sloka is the saraswata prayoga of panchadasi. The 51

> rosary beads and book in the hands of Mother indicates the " Bharati

> Mantra Prayoga " of Antar and Bahir

-----------------

priya SrIrAm,

 

It reminds me an incident, (I don`t exactly remember but)I

asked some query with my gurunAtha SrI duvvuri narsimhamurty garu.

He simply turned off and said it is all vAmAcAra. I repeated again

showing some context from SrIvidyarNava tantra and asked whether

SrIvidyAraNya is wrong? He answered, yes, all the tantrA grandhAs

which ESTABLISH ANYTHING is vAmAcAra. samayAcAra is beyond any words.

'mOkshaika vR^itti' only can be called as samayAcAra.

 

'vAmAcArA need not be using literal " makAra pancaka " . The

word " vAma " means, 'worldly. lovely, perversed, crooked natured,

acting contrary, of an opposite nature. In my opinion, which ever

indicates the worldly pleasures is vAmAcara.

 

In fact vAmAcAra need not be totally condemnable.

SrIrAmakrishna paramahamsa has instructed one of his disciples to

follow vAmAcAra, after conferring him in sanyAsa dIkShA.

BhAskarAcArya is believed to have followed vAmAcAra and instructed his

disciple umAnandanAtha to follow samayAcAra only. If you utter any

thingas " prayOga " it has to be called as vAmAcArA only

---------

 

Nyasa. This nyasa

> paddhati is also mentioned in Jnanarnava Tantra and also be

> Mahidhara Acharya in his Bhuvaneshwari Stavah.

 

> This of " Bharati Mantra Prayoga " confer the vak siddhi and

> the upasaka is able to compose wonderful poetry. Are not Kalidasa,

> Muka >

, Sankara Bhagavatpada, Durvasah, etc. wonderful poets who

> got the grace of Mother? Are not their works like Devi Panchastavi,

> Chidgagana Chandrika, Muka Panchasati, Saundaryalahari, Arya Dwisati

> wonderful compositions having kshira, madhu and draksha rasas?

>

> If LS is the composition of 8 vak-devis having madhu, draksha and

> kshira elements, why not any person who has the grace of these vak-

> devis can compose the poetry having kshira, madhu and draksha rasas?

-----

They all have acquired that talent only by the grace of

'paradEvata' They never aspired for that talent. It is the will of

that 'paramESwari'.

 

" jIvAtmAnam Sri dEvI pAdAravinda mUlE LIINAM viBhAvya kShaNam

na kincidapi cintayitwA, DeVYa PReRITA MaNASH SAN "

" SHE " has ordered them all to compose all those works in different

RASAAS.

 

If we don`t search for the esoteric hR^idaya of Sankara,

we will be whirling in the mAdana prayOgas, sarpa prayOgAs, jWara

pryOgAs,etc., We may be able to become " MAANTRIKAAS " and not

'samayAcAra upAsakAs'. Please excuse me if I have exeeded any thing

in this matter

 

with regards,

krishnarao

------------

> with regards,

> sriram

>

>

> , " krishnarao "

> <sriparasukhanandanadha@> wrote:

> >

> > From :- Lanka Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao@}

> > Subject :- About SrI yantrAs

> > SrIguruh sarvakAraNBhUtA

> > Saktih |

> > SrI mahA gaNAdhipatayE

> > namah ||

> > priya mahASayAh,

> > The following verse is the 15th one in the " sowndarya

> > lahari " composed by SrI Adi SankarAcArya.

> > " Sarat jyOtsnASuddAm SaSiyuta jatAjUta makuTam

> > Vara trAsa trANa sPatika GatikA pustaka karAm |

> > SakR^innatwA kathamiva satAm

> > sannidadhatE

> > madhu kSIra drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh PhNitayah

|| "

> > Unless one has ever prostrated before you, who is

> > lustrously glowing like the autumnal moonlight, having lunar

> crescent

> > upon the crown over the dressed hair, and wearing a crystal

> rosary,

> > varada

[Guest guest]

Sri guruBhyo namah

Srimaan Sadhaka

 

Meru Prastara, Bhoo Prastara and Kailasa prastara are the three types

of Srichakra.

In Every Prastara there are srusti,sthithi and samhara krama.

Bindu,trikona,vasukona are samhara bhaga.

Antardasara,bahirdasara manvasrama are sthithi bhaga.

Asta dala padma,shodasha dala padma, Bhupoora are sristi Bhaga.

 

When the Archana is performed from Bindu to Bhupoora it is said as

Srusti pooja. This is samaya mata

Archana from m Antardasara to Bhupoora and from vasukona to bindu is

said as stiti pooja and this is known as Suddha mata

 

Archana from Bhupoora to bindu is samhara. and this is koula mata.

 

On Meru Prastara only sristi pooja should be performed. Samhara

pooja is not allowed.

 

Stithi pooja should be done on Bhoo Prastara and only Samhara pooja

on Kailasa Prastara.

 

Stiti pooja is prescribed for Gruhsta's. Vanaprasta and Yatis

Samhara krama and Brahmacharis sristi Pooja have been prescribed,

Women and sudras can perform pooja according to their will.

 

prastarotra tritha proktam srichakrasya tadheswari

meru kailasa Bhoo sangna Bhedhastasya tridha bhavet

meru prastarkam yantram nithyatadmakam smritam

maatrukayaastu kailase prastaraakhyam sureswari

Bhoo prastaram mahadevi vasinyaatmakam muthamam

sristi kramam meru chakram kailasamcharartha merukam

samhaarakhyam mahesani Bhooprastaram stithi kramam

ekaikasyatu chakrasya tribhedaastu bhavanti hi

sristyadi Bhedai devesi samharam kaulakam matam

srusti kramantu samayamatam syaat stithi sangnakam

sudhamtu kadhitam devi rahasyati rahasyakam

meru chakretu samhara krama poojaan vidyate

srusti kramena devesi poojaniyam prayatnatah

samhara pooja kailasa prastare tra vidhiyate

bhooprastare mahesani stithi pooja sadothama

stithi kramo grihistasya samharo vanino yatoh

brahmacharini utpathih striyaah sudrasya chestatah

 

(Sri Vidyaranya yati kruta Sri Vidyarnava tantah)

Yantra Yantraya vidmahe maha Yantraya Dhimahi Tannah Yantrah

Prachodayat

 

 

 

Sri GuruBhyo

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> Dear krishnarao garu,

>

> Namaste. First of all please accept my humble prostrations as you

> hail from illustrious gurumandali of shriyanandanatha.

>

> What exactly is the " vama " element for samhara krama of Meru

> prastara? (unless i use the literal makara-panchaka it does not be

> vama). I want a convincing answer.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhaka

The following Passage On KAILASA PRASTARA was originally by Sri

Parabrahma sastry garu. I tried to translate it from my Maatru Bhasha.

As I followed posts on this topic I felt this could throw some light

on VAMA I can also mail a Image for having better clarity on it

Namaste

Diwakar

 

KAILASA PRASTARA Kameswari sitting on the left (Vama) lap of

Kameswara in the Meru prastara this pose is known as Kailasa

prastara. In this form Kameswara leaves the right foot on the ground

and folds his left foot and same is mother kameswari posed as right

foot on the ground and left leg folded and seated on the LEFT LEG of

kameswara. Kameswara's Right foot is prakasa charana and kameswari

right foot is vimarsa charana. Both Kameswara Kameswari's left feet

togather is samarasya charana. This vinyasa or Pose is clarified

only in Kailasa Prastara .

IN MERU AND BHOO PRASTARA THIS CAN BE ONLY VISUALISED .

Years of Sadhana(Tapas) may give us the privilage of Prakasa and

Vimarsa charana after that moorty vigraha then after long long

sadhana the Samarsya charana. By The Experiance of prakasa Vimarsa

charana the sadhaka's Fear and Wordly interest disapear thats the

reason why sakti vigrahas's are in the form with Abhaya and Vara

Mudra's This is even clarified in Astama Avarana where the 4 Weopons

are worshipped.

> -----------------

> priya SrIrAm,

>

> It reminds me an incident, (I don`t exactly remember but)I

> asked some query with my gurunAtha SrI duvvuri narsimhamurty garu.

> He simply turned off and said it is all vAmAcAra. I repeated again

> showing some context from SrIvidyarNava tantra and asked whether

> SrIvidyAraNya is wrong? He answered, yes, all the tantrA grandhAs

> which ESTABLISH ANYTHING is vAmAcAra. samayAcAra is beyond any

words.

> 'mOkshaika vR^itti' only can be called as samayAcAra.

>

[Guest guest]

namaste

 

, " krishnarao " <lanka.krishnarao

wrote:

 

> 'mOkshaika vR^itti' only can be called as samayAchAra.

 

This may not be entirely correct. Samaya means rule. So samayAchAra

is that which is with rules i.e. with do and donts.

 

So some define that this is fit only for people with pashu bhAva,

hence the discipline of do and donts.

 

Please note that above is only the opinion of some tAntrIka-s.

 

 

> If you utter any

> thing as " prayOga " it has to be called as vAmAcArA only

 

This looks like it is only an opinion. Because what is vAmAchAra,

samayAchAra, kaulAchAra is defiend in various works. If we are giving

the above definition for vAmAchAra then we need some basis for that.

 

If above is true then the word dakShiNAchAra has no meaning and

becomes redundant.

 

 

 

> If we don`t search for the esoteric hR^idaya of Sankara,

> we will be whirling in the mAdana prayOgas, sarpa prayOgAs, jWara

> pryOgAs,etc., We may be able to become " MAANTRIKAAS " and not

> 'samayAcAra upAsakAs'.

 

samayAchAra as a purely mental process seem to be a later definition.

 

Different people approach mantra-shAstra for different ends. One

wants to study it just to gain that knowledge, others(vedAntins) as

an accessory for mokSha and others only for wordly ends(this is the

lowliest).

 

The goal is one of these three and samayAchAra is just one of the

many ways and not an end in itself.

 

Sorry if any of the things I said above is in poor taste.

[Guest guest]

Does the resting of either the left or the right feet on the ground by Amba

signify anything particular?

 

Sudarshan

 

--- On Wed, 19/11/08, Diwakar N.V.L.G <diwakarvlg wrote:

 

Diwakar N.V.L.G <diwakarvlg

Re: about SrIcakrAs

 

Wednesday, 19 November, 2008, 6:12 PM

 

Dear Sadhaka

The following Passage On KAILASA PRASTARA was originally by Sri

Parabrahma sastry garu. I tried to translate it from my Maatru Bhasha.

As I followed posts on this topic I felt this could throw some light

on VAMA I can also mail a Image for having better clarity on it

Namaste

Diwakar

[Guest guest]

Its on the Bindu of the Srichakra that the pose has been explained

and Kameswara Kameswaris right foot down and left foot folded

respectivly and kameswari sitting on the left lap of Kameswara

signifies KAILASA PRASTARA

 

Namaste

DIWAKAR

 

, sudarshan balasubramanian

<sudarshanbalasubramanian wrote:

>

> Does the resting of either the left or the right feet on the

ground by Amba signify anything particular?

>  

> Sudarshan

[Guest guest]

Dear satish,

 

This interpretation seems to be from " kaula " perspective.

 

The tantra shastra describing the various acharas of srividya

elucidates 7 acharas starting from Vedachara to Kaulachara. Even the

great indologist shri SK Ramachander Rao says that there are 3

acharas ie., Samayachara, Kaulachara and Misrachara based on the

Kerala, Kashmira and Vanga Acharas. The Dakshinachara & Vamachara

does not find the mention. They were of later origin.

 

Kaulachara is the bahya varivasya which involved the external rituals

as per Kalpa Sutras. The grosser form of Kouchalara which involves

bahya puja involving all sorts of " non-sense rituals with makara-

panchaka " is Vamachara. During the later stage, by applying proper

filters Vamachara is refined and termed to be Dakshinachara.

 

But Samayachara involves none of these. Samayachara involves no

external rituals. Samayachara means `SA+MAYA' ie., Union of Prakasa

and Vimarsa at Sahasrara or Shodashi with Para Siva. Since, Para Siva

or Prakasa holds this 16th Kala of Sodasi.. This 16th Kala is the

Srichakra for Samayachari. This 16th Kala is being worshipped with

the help of 15 kalas of Chit Chandra mandala which is the 15 Bija

Aksharas of Panchadashakshari Mantra.

 

" Ma " means the " the chandra kala which is ready for vriddhi ie.,

creation " . So, " Sa-Ma " means that the Union of Siva and sakti or the

Samarasya Bhava of Siva-Sakti from which again the Creation of

Pratipad, Dwitiya,…Pournami starts alongwith Tithi Nitya Devatas. " A-

Ma " implies " Without the Vriddhi / Kshaya Kala " .

 

There is also another meaning given out by elders which finds its

mention in Saubhagya Bhaskara.

 

The upasana for a samayachari involves kundalini prabodhana from

Manipura Chakra. Worships the Kundalini with Jewels and with Maha

Vedha takes it to the Sahasrara Padma. When the Kundalini enters the

Baindava Gruha at Sahasrara to unite with Para Siva the Upasaka

immediately chanting the " tiraskarini " puts the curtain down and

waits for " certain time " or " samaya " till the Kundalini is allowed to

have " Divine Sport " or a " Divine Union " with Para Siva. When the

Divine Sport is over, the Upasaka waits for the " kulamrita srava " or

the " trickle of nectar " from Sahasrara. Since, he waits for

this " time for Kulamrita srava " , the Upasana is

called " Samayachara " . And the Upasaka is called Samayachari.

 

Moreover, the Appayya Dikshitar mentions that among the 4

purusharthas, one whose objective is Artha and Kama is a Vamachari

and one whose objective is Moksha or Salvation is a Samayachari.

This interpretation he gives while explaining the " Bhavanopanishad " .

 

With regards,

sriram

 

 

, " Satish " <satisharigela wrote:

>

> namaste

>

> , " krishnarao " <lanka.krishnarao@>

> wrote:

>

> > 'mOkshaika vR^itti' only can be called as samayAchAra.

>

> This may not be entirely correct. Samaya means rule. So

samayAchAra

> is that which is with rules i.e. with do and donts.

>

> So some define that this is fit only for people with pashu bhAva,

> hence the discipline of do and donts.

>

> Please note that above is only the opinion of some tAntrIka-s.

>

>

> > If you utter any

> > thing as " prayOga " it has to be called as vAmAcArA only

>

> This looks like it is only an opinion. Because what is vAmAchAra,

> samayAchAra, kaulAchAra is defiend in various works. If we are

giving

> the above definition for vAmAchAra then we need some basis for that.

>

> If above is true then the word dakShiNAchAra has no meaning and

> becomes redundant.

>

>

>

> > If we don`t search for the esoteric hR^idaya of Sankara,

> > we will be whirling in the mAdana prayOgas, sarpa prayOgAs, jWara

> > pryOgAs,etc., We may be able to become " MAANTRIKAAS " and not

> > 'samayAcAra upAsakAs'.

>

> samayAchAra as a purely mental process seem to be a later

definition.

>

> Different people approach mantra-shAstra for different ends. One

> wants to study it just to gain that knowledge, others(vedAntins) as

> an accessory for mokSha and others only for wordly ends(this is the

> lowliest).

>

> The goal is one of these three and samayAchAra is just one of the

> many ways and not an end in itself.

>

> Sorry if any of the things I said above is in poor taste.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear krishna rao garu,

 

Namaste. Dear sir, there is no need to excuse moreover my age is

half of yours!! I am delighted the way the pra-shishya of Shri

Ishwara Satyanarayana Sastrigal has expounded the srividya rahasya.

 

But comments on Vidyaranya has raised my eyebrows!!!

 

regs,

sriram

 

, " krishnarao " <lanka.krishnarao

wrote:

>

> , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear krishnarao garu,

> >

> > Namaste. First of all please accept my humble prostrations as you

> > hail from illustrious gurumandali of shriyanandanatha.

> >

> > What exactly is the " vama " element for samhara krama of Meru

> > prastara? (unless i use the literal makara-panchaka it does not be

> > vama). I want a convincing answer.

>

> > Now the 15th sloka is the saraswata prayoga of panchadasi. The 51

> > rosary beads and book in the hands of Mother indicates

the " Bharati

> > Mantra Prayoga " of Antar and Bahir

> -----------------

> priya SrIrAm,

>

> It reminds me an incident, (I don`t exactly remember but)I

> asked some query with my gurunAtha SrI duvvuri narsimhamurty garu.

> He simply turned off and said it is all vAmAcAra. I repeated again

> showing some context from SrIvidyarNava tantra and asked whether

> SrIvidyAraNya is wrong? He answered, yes, all the tantrA grandhAs

> which ESTABLISH ANYTHING is vAmAcAra. samayAcAra is beyond any

words.

> 'mOkshaika vR^itti' only can be called as samayAcAra.

>

> 'vAmAcArA need not be using literal " makAra pancaka " . The

> word " vAma " means, 'worldly. lovely, perversed, crooked natured,

> acting contrary, of an opposite nature. In my opinion, which ever

> indicates the worldly pleasures is vAmAcara.

>

> In fact vAmAcAra need not be totally condemnable.

> SrIrAmakrishna paramahamsa has instructed one of his disciples to

> follow vAmAcAra, after conferring him in sanyAsa dIkShA.

> BhAskarAcArya is believed to have followed vAmAcAra and instructed

his

> disciple umAnandanAtha to follow samayAcAra only. If you utter any

> thingas " prayOga " it has to be called as vAmAcArA only

> ---------

>

> Nyasa. This nyasa

> > paddhati is also mentioned in Jnanarnava Tantra and also be

> > Mahidhara Acharya in his Bhuvaneshwari Stavah.

>

> > This of " Bharati Mantra Prayoga " confer the vak siddhi and

> > the upasaka is able to compose wonderful poetry. Are not

Kalidasa,

> > Muka >

> , Sankara Bhagavatpada, Durvasah, etc. wonderful poets who

> > got the grace of Mother? Are not their works like Devi

Panchastavi,

> > Chidgagana Chandrika, Muka Panchasati, Saundaryalahari, Arya

Dwisati

> > wonderful compositions having kshira, madhu and draksha rasas?

> >

> > If LS is the composition of 8 vak-devis having madhu, draksha and

> > kshira elements, why not any person who has the grace of these

vak-

> > devis can compose the poetry having kshira, madhu and draksha

rasas?

> -----

> They all have acquired that talent only by the grace of

> 'paradEvata' They never aspired for that talent. It is the will of

> that 'paramESwari'.

>

> " jIvAtmAnam Sri dEvI pAdAravinda mUlE LIINAM viBhAvya

kShaNam

> na kincidapi cintayitwA, DeVYa PReRITA MaNASH SAN "

> " SHE " has ordered them all to compose all those works in different

> RASAAS.

>

> If we don`t search for the esoteric hR^idaya of Sankara,

> we will be whirling in the mAdana prayOgas, sarpa prayOgAs, jWara

> pryOgAs,etc., We may be able to become " MAANTRIKAAS " and not

> 'samayAcAra upAsakAs'. Please excuse me if I have exeeded any thing

> in this matter

>

> with regards,

> krishnarao

> ------------

> > with regards,

> > sriram

> >

> >

> > , " krishnarao "

> > <sriparasukhanandanadha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > From :- Lanka Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao@}

> > > Subject :- About SrI yantrAs

> > > SrIguruh

sarvakAraNBhUtA

> > > Saktih |

> > > SrI mahA gaNAdhipatayE

> > > namah ||

> > > priya mahASayAh,

> > > The following verse is the 15th one in

the " sowndarya

> > > lahari " composed by SrI Adi SankarAcArya.

> > > " Sarat jyOtsnASuddAm SaSiyuta jatAjUta makuTam

> > > Vara trAsa trANa sPatika GatikA pustaka karAm |

> > > SakR^innatwA kathamiva satAm

> > > sannidadhatE

> > > madhu kSIra drAkShA madhurima dhurINAh PhNitayah

> || "

> > > Unless one has ever prostrated before you, who is

> > > lustrously glowing like the autumnal moonlight, having lunar

> > crescent

> > > upon the crown over the dressed hair, and wearing a crystal

> > rosary,

> > > varada

>

[Guest guest]

Srimaan Sriramji

Since One doesnt practice a Achara. we cannot criticize other Achara or

Practice. Every Achara have thier own Significance and one who

practices it should do so with complete conviction on the achara and He

should also respect Other Acharas and Rituals for they are not suitable

to him .

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Kaulachara is the bahya varivasya which involved the external rituals

> as per Kalpa Sutras. The grosser form of Kouchalara which involves

> bahya puja involving all sorts of " non-sense rituals with makara-

> panchaka " is Vamachara. During the later stage, by applying proper

> filters Vamachara is refined and termed to be Dakshinachara.

>

> But Samayachara involves none of these. Samayachara involves no

> external rituals. Samayachara means `SA+MAYA' ie., Union of Prakasa

[Guest guest]

A human being having been given the power of discrimination of what

is good and what is bad has every right to judge and accept the right

think like hamsa (swan) which rejects the water and accepts the pure

milk. This is the nira-kshira nyaya.

 

I never compromise on these issues. As far as Atma Vidya is

concerned, ultimately it is the Jnana Marga which confers liberation.

 

Once a westerner pointed out that how a wine drinking and flesh

eating lady can liberate the human being from the shackles of

bondage.

 

Tantras are poursheya unlike vedas and hence that which degrades the

man from his moral values should be abandoned. If vama is the correct

path then every drunkard and non-vegetarian becomes a shakta and

eventually a koula.

 

, " Diwakar N.V.L.G " <diwakarvlg

wrote:

>

> Srimaan Sriramji

> Since One doesnt practice a Achara. we cannot criticize other

Achara or

> Practice. Every Achara have thier own Significance and one who

> practices it should do so with complete conviction on the achara

and He

> should also respect Other Acharas and Rituals for they are not

suitable

> to him .

> , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@>

wrote:

> >

> > Kaulachara is the bahya varivasya which involved the external

rituals

> > as per Kalpa Sutras. The grosser form of Kouchalara which

involves

> > bahya puja involving all sorts of " non-sense rituals with makara-

> > panchaka " is Vamachara. During the later stage, by applying

proper

> > filters Vamachara is refined and termed to be Dakshinachara.

> >

> > But Samayachara involves none of these. Samayachara involves no

> > external rituals. Samayachara means `SA+MAYA' ie., Union of

Prakasa

>

[Guest guest]

- Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao)

Subject :- about SrIyantrAs

Priya SrIrAm,

I too have squinched my eye brows at that time when my

guruji was commenting upon SrIvidyAraNyA, who is my favorite author

and almost equal to my own guru and also a jagadguru.

But after some time, I could understand my guru`s intention.

SrIvidyAraNyA was the author of SrIvidyArNava tantram, which is not

his original rendering, but almost some excerpts from many other

tantra texts like `tantrarAja tantra', mEru tantram, SAradAtilaka,

j~nArNava tantram etc.,. Even though he was a hundred percent

samayAcAri, he has dealt with so many prayOgAs related to vAmAcArA.

He dealt with so many mantras belonging to so many tAmasika mantras,

mantras like ucciSta gaNapati, which could be useful only by vAma

mArga. He himself mentioned in it as

" ucchiShta gaNanAthasya mantrEShvEshu—vAma mArgArAdhanam tu vinAnEna

na siddhyati, jAti BhramSO nirdhanatwam vamSacCEdO 2nyadhA BhavEt "

 

He has also dealt with so many BhAiravI mantras, dootI mantras,

yakShiNI mantras, cEtaka mantras and mantrAs like bEtALa sAdhana, Sava

sAdhana, karNapiSAcini,and also mAraNa prayOgAs.

This is not my intention to point out any faults of him. Just as we

see the meanings of many obscene words also in a dictionery, in a

tantra grandha, he has to write every stuff in it. Ofcourse, (my

guruji used to explain me the positive meanings for many of those

mantras.) But all those mantrAs were not accepted by many samayAcAra

upAsakAs.

We can`t decide about the traditions with the help of any books,

including the vEdAs. pAramparya vij~nAnam also should be contributed

with every scripture. This is what my guruji used to say every time. -

krishnarao

 

-- In , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> Dear krishna rao garu,

>

> Namaste. Dear sir, there is no need to excuse moreover my age is

> half of yours!! I am delighted the way the pra-shishya of Shri

> Ishwara Satyanarayana Sastrigal has expounded the srividya rahasya.

>

> But comments in a tantra grandhaVidyaranya has raised my eyebrows!!!

>

> regs,

> sriram

[Guest guest]

sri gurubhyo namaha.

 

Dear sriramji

 

your reasoning that

''If vama is the correct

> path then every drunkard and non-vegetarian becomes a shakta and

> eventually a koula. ''

 

is as pointless as someone else saying that if dakshinA was the

correct path then every vegetarian and tee tottler would be a great

jnyAni.Such views prove nothing apart from personal preference/bias.

 

Even when you mention where something degrades ones moral values,we

have to understand that morality is a notion that varies with the

culture,race,geography,religious affliction,time, socially accepted

things etc. Truth though is the same irrespective of any of these

variables - that is why it must be transcendent to those notions

that are capable of being concieved of by the limited human mind.

 

You are right in that we are possesed of the power of

discrimination, but with our limited powers of perception (e.g. we

dont even know whats on the other side of the concrete wall never

mind alternate realities)and the human predisposition to bias and

judgement with respect to what 'we' hold to be right or wrong, etc

limit the very scope of this discriminatory capacity.I imagine one

can truly excercise ones faculty of discrimination when one has

completely rid ones ideas of likes and dislikes - until then

obviously only that which I like will appear to me to be good and

all that I dont like will appear to be bad.

 

You may be very right in your own choices and would probably be

quite apt in making no compromises on this issue - that is after all

your free will. But to paint your brush over anothers painting is

not a very noble idea. By way of making the presence of the devi to

be more in something and less in something else, we only reduce Her

omnipresence. This method of fractal observation is perfectly all

right in the context of trying to frame something unframeable, but

beyond that it is only counter productive.

 

The notion that liberation is only attained by being vegetarian or

by being born into a brahmin family etc seems to be a human one and

not apaursheya. Moreover the hamsa which rejects the water and

consumes the milk alone,I am sure doesnt waste time or energy

slandering the water. Each one of us have our own set of limitations

to overcome and perhaps thats why we have taken the human form in an

attempt to overcome them.And any path or system that helps one

overcome these limitations in a bid to attempt a glance/glimpse of

something so very different to the usual black or white demarcation

is surely something to be respected.There is no compulsion on anyone

to follow any system they are opposed to, but surely everything is

there simply because there is a need for it from some quarter.And

all that is,all that was and all that ever will be,is still only the

same same same - She,I know as mahAtripurasundarI and someonelse by

some other name.

 

My intention here in this mail is not to hurt your sentiments or

those of anyone else (thats precisely why I am posting

this!).Neither is it an indication of my own path being one that

includes drink or meat. Iam a tamil brahmin - vegetarian and non

drinker! But I have not an iota of belief that Iam in anyway

superior or any more closer to my dEvi than someone else who eats

meat and drinks alcohol.If unintentionally I have angered the

upasakas of the devi here in this post or any of my other posts,

please dismiss them as the rants of a foolish child and forgive me

my ignorance.

 

sarvadwandakshayamkarI dEvI paripAlayamAm.

 

 

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

>

> A human being having been given the power of discrimination of what is good

and what is bad has every right to judge and accept the right think like hamsa

(swan) which rejects the water and accepts the pure milk. This is the

nira-kshira nyaya.

>

> I never compromise on these issues. As far as Atma Vidya is concerned,

ultimately it is the Jnana Marga which confers liberation.

>

> Once a westerner pointed out that how a wine drinking and flesh eating lady

can liberate the human being from the shackles of bondage.

>

> Tantras are poursheya unlike vedas and hence that which degrades

the man from his moral values should be abandoned. If vama is the

correct path then every drunkard and non-vegetarian becomes a shakta and

eventually a koula.

[Guest guest]

A Hamsa accepts milk and rejects the water but doesnt insult or abuse

the water and declare itself as a Jnani.

 

The significance of milk is establishid by comparing it with water.

Hence its the contrast which establishes the Right or wrongh path

and the viveka for choosing the right path for that on has to respect

even the water or the wrongh path . just respect it for we are not

entering that path .

Jagadguru Adi shankara saw shiva in a chandala

A Person need not practice a path to respect it and all the persons

acquinted with vedes is by default not getting libarated.

 

 

l , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> A human being having been given the power of discrimination of what

> is good and what is bad has every right to judge and accept the

right

> think like hamsa (swan) which rejects the water and accepts the

pure

> milk. This is the nira-kshira nyaya.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna rao garu,

 

Namaste. To some extent it is rightly observed regarding the

prayogas. But the light of tantras have been " highly

misinterpreted " by the upasakas and according to them Tantra

means " shatkarmas " . Somewhere something went wrong in the tradition

and the wonderful knowledge has been misinterpreted by " perverted

intellectuals " . Needless to say that it is these intellectuals who

preserved our tantra literature. That much I acknowledge as their

contribution.

 

Apart from myself being a traditional upasaka, I am highly and deeply

influenced by the mystic analysis of Shri Vashishta Ganapati Muni and

Shri TV Kapali Sastry. All these tantras have been reviewed and

interpreted in a very scholastic way by both of them. Perhaps

the " advent of Vashishta Ganapati Muni " is to shake off these pre-

conceived notions.

 

Shri Ayyalasomayajula Narasimha Sastry (father of Ganapati Muni) was

a great lover of Mother India. After personally witnessing the

atrocities of British on Indians before him went to Kasi in a very

depressing mood. Did the samkalpa before the Dundi Ganapati at Kasi

and performed intense Tapas for a son. The samkalpa was to " beget

the Son who would uphold the national flag of Vedic Upasana and with

the power of Mantras drive away the British from India " . One fine

morning when he was doing the Ganapati Mantra Japa, he had a vision

of Dundi Ganapati entering his heart. Simultaneously his wife had a

vision of Veda Purusha in the form of Agni holding a golden vessel

entering her womb. The very night she had a vision of Lord

Suryanarayana blessing her. And when the child was born he was

named " Vashishta Surya Ganapati Sastry " .

 

It is interesting to note that Ganapati Muni re-converted 5

Vamacharis in Orissa who were practicing these rituals at Mandasa.

Having reconverted them and performing the Shuddhi Prakriya initiated

them in the " Dahara Vidya " of the Chandogya Upanishad.

 

Apart from being a Tara Upasaka in its purest form, Ganapati Muni

alongwith his wife Smt. Visalakshi became the first gurumandala in

South India to propagate the Tara Upasana. Till then, this " GREAT

WONDERFUL LADY OF LIBERATION " is a highly misinterpreted Devi

associated with Vamachara in southern region. So, is the case with

UCCHISHTA GANAPATI.

 

As regards the Ucchishta Ganapati Upasana, it is also a highly-

misinterpreted form of Upasana which is practiced in its purity at

Sringeri. It is a part of Anuttara Amnaya Diksha.

 

Moreover, very few people know that Ganapati Muni was an upasaka of

Ucchista Ganapati (needless to mention that he himself was a partial

incarnation of Ganaka Rishi). His deep impression on this form of

Upasana is reflected in " Herambopasthanam " .

 

There have been quite non-sense interpretations for the term " hasti

pishacha " . This terminology is also a highly esoteric term.

 

As regards my philosophy, yes, till the last breath of my life I will

try to uphold the lofty flag of Daksha and Samaya Marga.

 

My crusade has just started which is just a beginning……..

 

If I have hurt the sentiments of " some of the people " who belong to

the leftist path, please excuse me. But that is how I am regarding

my views on Shastra and Upasana.

 

With regards,

sriram

 

mannAtha shri jagannathah madguruh shri jagatguruh

 

 

, " krishnarao " <lanka.krishnarao

wrote:

>

> - Krishnarao (lanka.krishnarao)

> Subject :- about SrIyantrAs

> Priya SrIrAm,

> I too have squinched my eye brows at that time when my

> guruji was commenting upon SrIvidyAraNyA, who is my favorite author

> and almost equal to my own guru and also a jagadguru.

> But after some time, I could understand my guru`s intention.

> SrIvidyAraNyA was the author of SrIvidyArNava tantram, which is not

> his original rendering, but almost some excerpts from many other

> tantra texts like `tantrarAja tantra', mEru tantram,

SAradAtilaka,

> j~nArNava tantram etc.,. Even though he was a hundred percent

> samayAcAri, he has dealt with so many prayOgAs related to vAmAcArA.

> He dealt with so many mantras belonging to so many tAmasika mantras,

> mantras like ucciSta gaNapati, which could be useful only by vAma

> mArga. He himself mentioned in it as

> " ucchiShta gaNanAthasya mantrEShvEshu—vAma mArgArAdhanam tu vinAnEna

> na siddhyati, jAti BhramSO nirdhanatwam vamSacCEdO 2nyadhA BhavEt "

>

> He has also dealt with so many BhAiravI mantras, dootI mantras,

> yakShiNI mantras, cEtaka mantras and mantrAs like bEtALa sAdhana,

Sava

> sAdhana, karNapiSAcini,and also mAraNa prayOgAs.

> This is not my intention to point out any faults of him. Just as we

> see the meanings of many obscene words also in a dictionery, in a

> tantra grandha, he has to write every stuff in it. Ofcourse, (my

> guruji used to explain me the positive meanings for many of those

> mantras.) But all those mantrAs were not accepted by many

samayAcAra

> upAsakAs.

> We can`t decide about the traditions with the help of any books,

> including the vEdAs. pAramparya vij~nAnam also should be

contributed

> with every scripture. This is what my guruji used to say every

time. -

> krishnarao

>

> -- In , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear krishna rao garu,

> >

> > Namaste. Dear sir, there is no need to excuse moreover my age is

> > half of yours!! I am delighted the way the pra-shishya of Shri

> > Ishwara Satyanarayana Sastrigal has expounded the srividya

rahasya.

> >

> > But comments in a tantra grandhaVidyaranya has raised my

eyebrows!!!

> >

> > regs,

> > sriram

>

[Guest guest]

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

> As far as Atma Vidya is

> concerned, ultimately it is the Jnana Marga which confers

>liberation.

 

Namaste

 

I totally agree. Yes kaula mArga can give one that GYAna.

The kaula sriptures repeatedly proclaim that GYAna alone and not

rituals grant mokSha. Not some but almost every kaula work says this.

 

> Once a westerner pointed out that how a wine drinking and flesh

> eating lady can liberate the human being from the shackles of

> bondage.

 

Drinking wine and eating flesh is not an obstacle to mokSha.

The main obstacle is having a closed mind i.e. not changing one's

opinion even after seeing evidence. If one fails to see things for

what they are, even for little things then where is the question of

them attaining GYAna and achieving liberation?

 

If a westerner questioned how can Hinduism grant liberation, does

that mean our traditions are of no value. Why should one make a

statement like this in the first place?

 

 

>

> Tantras are poursheya unlike vedas and hence that which degrades

>the

> man from his moral values should be abandoned.

 

All shAstra including tantra, veda is eternal.

If tantra can be seen as pauruSheya same can be said of veda.

If this statement is made because there is animal bali, drinking in

*some* tantric paths then the shrauta sacrifices have them too.

 

> If vama is the correct

> path then every drunkard and non-vegetarian becomes a shakta and

> eventually a koula.

 

We showed your kind and good self a dozen times with appropriate

quotes showing drinking and eating non-veg does not make one a

vAmAchArin.h.

So there is need to repeat this statement, no? :-)

 

I will again quote from the mahiShamardini tantra

" Drinking doesnt make one a vIra! Only mantra siddhi makes one a

vIra "

 

Regards

[Guest guest]

, " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

> Namaste. To some extent it is rightly observed regarding the

> prayogas. But the light of tantras have been " highly

> misinterpreted " by the upasakas and according to them Tantra

> means " shatkarmas " . Somewhere something went wrong in the

tradition

> and the wonderful knowledge has been misinterpreted by " perverted

> intellectuals " . Needless to say that it is these intellectuals who

> preserved our tantra literature. That much I acknowledge as their

> contribution.

 

Namaste Shriram: Over and over again in this list we have been having

similar discussions in which I fear you persist with some views which

ignore the sources and the system. I am just presenting some views of

the ones more learned than me here. I was given the example of the

hero of the Mahabharata and Harivamsha, Krishna, who is worshiped by

many as Vishnu himself, even in the Shrividya tradition. Krishna is

considered by many Hindus to a very essential prototype of a Yogi.

When in the great Kurukshetra war Arjuna was facing Jayadratha in the

last battle he says something like: " By the power of my *Yoga* I have

made the sun vanish. Now kill Jayadratha even as they are all looking

for the sun " . Elsewhere in MB and HV you see Krishna saying that by

the power of his Yoga deludes various enemies, this is mostly with the

intention of killing or defeating them. So even from the beginning

yoga had that element of " magic " -- entering other people's body,

deluding them or even killing them with assistance from this magic.

Tantras are a succession of the old Yoga system of which Krishna is a

part. So the Shatkarma is an integral part of them. So it is note an

aberration of tantras. The whole package is usually seen as a tantra

tradition.

RR