Guest guest Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Namaste, It is originally " om bhuuH bhuvaH svaH " . After sandhi (joining), it becomes " om bhuurbhuvassvaH " . The " r " after " bhuu " and " s " after " bhuva " are the sounds that visarga transforms into, based on the sounds coming next (bh and s respectively). Those sounds are to be vocalized. Pronouncing " bhuuH " as " bhuuhu " , " bhuvaH " as " bhuvaha " and " svaH " as " svaha " is wrong. Either pronounce it without sandhi as " om bhuuH bhuvaH svaH " or do sandhi and pronounce it as " om bhuurbhuvassvaH " . The latter is preferred. BTW, the word " svaH " above is also written by some as " suvaH " . Both are correct. * * * If you pronounce visarga (H) correctly, then you will actually find that first saying " bhuuH " and then " bhuvaH " without ANY break in between will automatically make it sound like " bhuurbhuvaH " . The grammar rules of Sanskrit (e.g. visarga becoming " r " when " b " or " bh " comes after it) are not arbitrarily decided by someone, but based on sound logic and/or keen observation. If your pronunciation of various sounds is perfect, then grammar rules are actually plain common sense. Conversely, if your pronunciation is not perfect, perhaps because of corruptions in tradition, then grammar rules can help you *reconstruct* the correct pronunciation. But, one thing is certain. Sanskrit grammar rules are logical and not arbitrary. * * * As an example, take the vowel " ai " (as in the mahaakaali beeja " aim " or in the words " aindrI " or " aishvarya " or " airaavata " ). South Indians pronounce this vowel approximately as " i " in the English words " file " or " mile " or " mine " . North Indians pronounce it closer to " ae " . They pronounce this vowel approximately as " a " in the English words " bank " , " rank " , " man " or " fan " . Which pronunciation is correct? The vriddhi sandhi rule is a big clue. This sandhi says: a+e=ai (here, a is the first sound of ananta and e is the first sound of etat). For example, tava+eva=tavaiva. If you pronounce the sound " a " and succeed in pronouncing the sound " e " immediately following it, i.e. without ANY break in between, then you WILL end up getting the correct pronunciation of the vowel " ai " . If you try this, you will find that the north Indian pronunciation of vowel " ai " as " ae " is correct. * * * I will give another example (I am using ITrans transliteration). The vowel " R^i " as in (kR^iShNa or R^iShi or R^ici or R^itam) is mispronounced as " ru " by south Indians and as " ri " by north Indians (e.g. ruShi or riShi). Neither pronunciation is correct. Both are silly, as they contain a consonant and an vowel, instead of just one vowel. The clue to the correct pronunciation is in yaNaadesha sandhi. If " a " comes immediately following " i " or " R^i " or " L^u " or " u " , then we get the semi-vowels " ya " or " ra " or " la " or " va " (respectively). If you pronounce " R^i " as either " ru " or " ri " as south/north Indians do and pronounce " a " immediately following it, without ANY break in between, you will end up getting " rva " or " rya " (respectively) and definitely not " ra " . That means both are wrong. If you feel inside your mouth what is known as the " vowel trapezium " in modern linguistics, then these 4 vowels are on the top line of the trapezium. The vowel " i " is on the inside edge of the top line and the vowel " u " is on the outside edge of the top line. If you trisect the distance between them, you can locate " R^i " and " L^u " (in the order i, R^i, L^u and u). If you do this and practice the sounds, you will actually find that yaNaadesha sandhi rule is logical and natural. If you pronounce i, R^i, L^u or u and then a, you indeed get ya, ra, la and va. I repeat again. Sanskrit grammar rules like sandhi rules are quite logical and plain common sense. They are not arbitrary. Because of some errors that crept into people's pronunciation, some rules may seem arbitrary. But, if one pronounces sounds as they are meant, sandhi rules are logical. * * * One should make one's best effort to pronounce correctly. But pronunciation is only ONE of several factors. A jigsaw puzzle is solved when all the pieces come together. One piece cannot solve the puzzle. Please keep that in mind. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ---- sbm_sharma <sbm_sharma wrote: > > Dear Narasimha, > > Namaskar. > > Thank you for graciously answering my questions. I understand that you are not able to type out (Phonetically or otherwise) the Gayatri mantra, however does this prohibition apply to the " Pre Gayatri " ? This is actually something I was most confused about as to pronunciation: > > " Om bhur bhuva swaha " , I have also seen as " Om bhu bhuvaha swaha " . Does the " r " in " bhur " get vocalized? Is " bhuva " correct or is it the later and in both instances regarding " bhuva " or " bhuvaha " is the " u " pronounced like " boo " or more like in " but " . > > Thank you very much. > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > I cannot point to any audio that I found satisfactory. > > > > Please buy the book " Mantrapushpam " by Ramakrishna Mutt. It gives Gayatri > > mantra with intonation marked correctly. It has many other veda mantras too. > > > > I will point out a few standard mistakes I have seen people make: > > > > (1) People normally pronounce anudattas and svaritas (letters with lines > > below or above) correctly, but mess up when a few udattas come in a row. For > > example, all the three letters in " dheemahi " are without any lines below or > > above. They have to be pronounced in the same pitch. People end up > > introducing some pitch variation and mispronouncing them. In veda mantras, > > pronouncing all udattas in the same pitch is the most important thing. Do > > not stress any letter or take the pitch up/down when pronouncing a string of > > udattas. > > > > (2) The last syllable of " prachodayaat " is " yaat " . It is supposed to be one > > syllable. When you pronounce it correctly, " t " is hardly audible. If you > > artificially add an vowel at the end of it and make it " prachodayaatu " , you > > will end up introducing an extra syllable ( " tu " ) and mess up everything. A > > lot of people do not pronounce " t " correctly. Probably some guru sometime > > back started the practice of adding a brief vowel at the end of words ending > > in a consonant, so that his sishyas could listen clearly what consonant he > > was saying. Unfortunately, it became a standard practice. This is good for > > teaching, but wrong for sadhana. If a word ends in a consonant, end it with > > a consonant (which cannot be heard clearly unless one tried hard) and do NOT > > add a brief vowel after that consonant. > > > > (3) Take " dhiyo yo naH " . The " H " in " naH " is a visarga (written in Sanskrit > > as " : " and notated in itrans as " H " ). Visarga means " letting go " . You are > > supposed to let air go from you lungs in a quick exhalation. Pronunciation > > of " naH " is very close to " nah " though slightly different. Again, this is > > supposed to be one syllable. A lot of people, especially south Indians, make > > it " naha " . Due to extra vowel added (a), an extra syllable (ha) is added to > > the mantra and that messes up everything. Again this is wrong. > > > > In this style of mispronouncing visarga, the same symbol " H " is pronounced > > differently in " raamaH " , " hariH " and " guruH " . The same symbol > > " H " or " : " is pronounced as " ha " , " hi " and " hu " in the 3 words, respectively > > (i.e. raamaha, harihi, guruhu). That is wrong. If you pronounce it as > > letting air go, without adding any vowel, it sounds identical in the 3 > > words. > > > > Watch out for these 3 common mistakes. > > > > However, as I keep saying, the pronunciation is only a small percentage of > > it. Creating the right mental images and the perfect mental focus is more > > important. If you lose awareness of your body, successfully shut down all > > other thoughts in the mind and achieve a perfect mental focus on any veda > > mantra with correct pronunciation, it will be a fantastic experience. Please > > note that correct pronunciation is not difficult to achieve, but the other > > things I mentioned here are not that easy! > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > - > > " sbm_sharma " <sbm_sharma > > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:57 PM > > Proper Gayatri Mantra Pronunciation and Intonation - > > Audio Source > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > > > Could you point me towards any easily obtainable audio recording of the > > > Gayatri mantra which you deem to be correctly executed? > > > > > > Also, would you mind typing it out here, phonetically? Thank you so much. > > > > > > Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Dear Narasimha, Namaskar. Thank you so very much for your highly explicit response. This will really help me and others I am sure. At the risk of driving you crazy and wasting even more of your time I have one last question pertaining to the " Pre-Gayatri " stanza. How is the " v " in bhuurbhuvassvaH pronounced? Is it a hard " v " or more like a " w " or some combo of the two? My question applies to " Shivaya " as well. I read somewhere that there is no hard " v " sound in Sanskrit and thus pronouncing " v " like " w " is more appropriate, but I suppose this rule only applies in certain instances (As " Savitur " does have a hard " v " )? Thank you so much again. I really do appreciate the time and energy you put into your responses. Best Regards , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste, > > It is originally " om bhuuH bhuvaH svaH " . After sandhi (joining), it becomes " om bhuurbhuvassvaH " . The " r " after " bhuu " and " s " after " bhuva " are the sounds that visarga transforms into, based on the sounds coming next (bh and s respectively). Those sounds are to be vocalized. > > Pronouncing " bhuuH " as " bhuuhu " , " bhuvaH " as " bhuvaha " and " svaH " as " svaha " is wrong. Either pronounce it without sandhi as " om bhuuH bhuvaH svaH " or do sandhi and pronounce it as " om bhuurbhuvassvaH " . The latter is preferred. > > BTW, the word " svaH " above is also written by some as " suvaH " . Both are correct. > > * * * > > If you pronounce visarga (H) correctly, then you will actually find that first saying " bhuuH " and then " bhuvaH " without ANY break in between will automatically make it sound like " bhuurbhuvaH " . > > The grammar rules of Sanskrit (e.g. visarga becoming " r " when " b " or " bh " comes after it) are not arbitrarily decided by someone, but based on sound logic and/or keen observation. If your pronunciation of various sounds is perfect, then grammar rules are actually plain common sense. Conversely, if your pronunciation is not perfect, perhaps because of corruptions in tradition, then grammar rules can help you *reconstruct* the correct pronunciation. But, one thing is certain. Sanskrit grammar rules are logical and not arbitrary. > > * * * > > As an example, take the vowel " ai " (as in the mahaakaali beeja " aim " or in the words " aindrI " or " aishvarya " or " airaavata " ). South Indians pronounce this vowel approximately as " i " in the English words " file " or " mile " or " mine " . North Indians pronounce it closer to " ae " . They pronounce this vowel approximately as " a " in the English words " bank " , " rank " , " man " or " fan " . Which pronunciation is correct? > > The vriddhi sandhi rule is a big clue. This sandhi says: a+e=ai (here, a is the first sound of ananta and e is the first sound of etat). For example, tava+eva=tavaiva. If you pronounce the sound " a " and succeed in pronouncing the sound " e " immediately following it, i.e. without ANY break in between, then you WILL end up getting the correct pronunciation of the vowel " ai " . > > If you try this, you will find that the north Indian pronunciation of vowel " ai " as " ae " is correct. > > * * * > > I will give another example (I am using ITrans transliteration). The vowel " R^i " as in (kR^iShNa or R^iShi or R^ici or R^itam) is mispronounced as " ru " by south Indians and as " ri " by north Indians (e.g. ruShi or riShi). Neither pronunciation is correct. Both are silly, as they contain a consonant and an vowel, instead of just one vowel. > > The clue to the correct pronunciation is in yaNaadesha sandhi. If " a " comes immediately following " i " or " R^i " or " L^u " or " u " , then we get the semi-vowels " ya " or " ra " or " la " or " va " (respectively). If you pronounce " R^i " as either " ru " or " ri " as south/north Indians do and pronounce " a " immediately following it, without ANY break in between, you will end up getting " rva " or " rya " (respectively) and definitely not " ra " . That means both are wrong. > > If you feel inside your mouth what is known as the " vowel trapezium " in modern linguistics, then these 4 vowels are on the top line of the trapezium. The vowel " i " is on the inside edge of the top line and the vowel " u " is on the outside edge of the top line. If you trisect the distance between them, you can locate " R^i " and " L^u " (in the order i, R^i, L^u and u). If you do this and practice the sounds, you will actually find that yaNaadesha sandhi rule is logical and natural. If you pronounce i, R^i, L^u or u and then a, you indeed get ya, ra, la and va. > > I repeat again. Sanskrit grammar rules like sandhi rules are quite logical and plain common sense. They are not arbitrary. Because of some errors that crept into people's pronunciation, some rules may seem arbitrary. But, if one pronounces sounds as they are meant, sandhi rules are logical. > > * * * > > One should make one's best effort to pronounce correctly. But pronunciation is only ONE of several factors. A jigsaw puzzle is solved when all the pieces come together. One piece cannot solve the puzzle. Please keep that in mind. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ---- sbm_sharma <sbm_sharma wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Thank you for graciously answering my questions. I understand that you are not able to type out (Phonetically or otherwise) the Gayatri mantra, however does this prohibition apply to the " Pre Gayatri " ? This is actually something I was most confused about as to pronunciation: > > > > " Om bhur bhuva swaha " , I have also seen as " Om bhu bhuvaha swaha " . Does the " r " in " bhur " get vocalized? Is " bhuva " correct or is it the later and in both instances regarding " bhuva " or " bhuvaha " is the " u " pronounced like " boo " or more like in " but " . > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I cannot point to any audio that I found satisfactory. > > > > > > Please buy the book " Mantrapushpam " by Ramakrishna Mutt. It gives Gayatri > > > mantra with intonation marked correctly. It has many other veda mantras too. > > > > > > I will point out a few standard mistakes I have seen people make: > > > > > > (1) People normally pronounce anudattas and svaritas (letters with lines > > > below or above) correctly, but mess up when a few udattas come in a row. For > > > example, all the three letters in " dheemahi " are without any lines below or > > > above. They have to be pronounced in the same pitch. People end up > > > introducing some pitch variation and mispronouncing them. In veda mantras, > > > pronouncing all udattas in the same pitch is the most important thing. Do > > > not stress any letter or take the pitch up/down when pronouncing a string of > > > udattas. > > > > > > (2) The last syllable of " prachodayaat " is " yaat " . It is supposed to be one > > > syllable. When you pronounce it correctly, " t " is hardly audible. If you > > > artificially add an vowel at the end of it and make it " prachodayaatu " , you > > > will end up introducing an extra syllable ( " tu " ) and mess up everything. A > > > lot of people do not pronounce " t " correctly. Probably some guru sometime > > > back started the practice of adding a brief vowel at the end of words ending > > > in a consonant, so that his sishyas could listen clearly what consonant he > > > was saying. Unfortunately, it became a standard practice. This is good for > > > teaching, but wrong for sadhana. If a word ends in a consonant, end it with > > > a consonant (which cannot be heard clearly unless one tried hard) and do NOT > > > add a brief vowel after that consonant. > > > > > > (3) Take " dhiyo yo naH " . The " H " in " naH " is a visarga (written in Sanskrit > > > as " : " and notated in itrans as " H " ). Visarga means " letting go " . You are > > > supposed to let air go from you lungs in a quick exhalation. Pronunciation > > > of " naH " is very close to " nah " though slightly different. Again, this is > > > supposed to be one syllable. A lot of people, especially south Indians, make > > > it " naha " . Due to extra vowel added (a), an extra syllable (ha) is added to > > > the mantra and that messes up everything. Again this is wrong. > > > > > > In this style of mispronouncing visarga, the same symbol " H " is pronounced > > > differently in " raamaH " , " hariH " and " guruH " . The same symbol > > > " H " or " : " is pronounced as " ha " , " hi " and " hu " in the 3 words, respectively > > > (i.e. raamaha, harihi, guruhu). That is wrong. If you pronounce it as > > > letting air go, without adding any vowel, it sounds identical in the 3 > > > words. > > > > > > Watch out for these 3 common mistakes. > > > > > > However, as I keep saying, the pronunciation is only a small percentage of > > > it. Creating the right mental images and the perfect mental focus is more > > > important. If you lose awareness of your body, successfully shut down all > > > other thoughts in the mind and achieve a perfect mental focus on any veda > > > mantra with correct pronunciation, it will be a fantastic experience. Please > > > note that correct pronunciation is not difficult to achieve, but the other > > > things I mentioned here are not that easy! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > > Spirituality: > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > > > > - > > > " sbm_sharma " <sbm_sharma@> > > > > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:57 PM > > > Proper Gayatri Mantra Pronunciation and Intonation - > > > Audio Source > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > > > > > Could you point me towards any easily obtainable audio recording of the > > > > Gayatri mantra which you deem to be correctly executed? > > > > > > > > Also, would you mind typing it out here, phonetically? Thank you so much. > > > > > > > > Regards > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris22 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hello ! Is there a pronunciation guide by patanjali how to produce the sounds for औ and ऐ correctly ? Because just by the sandhi for a + e = ai one can not go, as there is also the sandhi aa + i = ai which would apologize for the version of pronoucing ai as in the english i. Finally we hear both versions even in one mantra as in the navakshari mantra: Aum , Aim, hreem, kleem, chamundayai vicce. So here the ai in Aim is differently pronounced as the ai at the end in chamundayai. Why is that ? Thank You ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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