THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

[Guest guest]

Respected Shri Shantanu ji,

 

I never said that keeping fasts or trying to control one's hunger or any

self-control techniques is a mandatory step towards Enlightenment. The main goal

is Moksha, other things are just various ways of reaching the same goal. GOD

would welcome every Soul in the same way whether that Soul reached HIM by Tapas,

by meditation, by devotion, or by any technique. The technique is a free-will of

that individual Soul. Also, I don't know, but atleast I don't agree that by

self-control we mean control over one's body, because that's not your real Self.

 

With Regards,

Prabhat

 

 

--- On Thu, 10/7/08, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

shanracer <no_reply >

Re: THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

 

So we should be aware of our weakness, but awareness is not the same

 

as obsession. If I cannot control my hunger its a weakness I should

[Guest guest]

, Prabhat Gupta <suprabhat_1999

wrote:

>

> Respected Shri Aum ji,

>

> God never tells us to start finding faults in others even one

reaches higher states.

 

Dear Prabhat we are not finding faults here with anyone. This is an

open forum where we can share each others' views.

 

If my experiences does not match with yours, that does not mean i am

on the wrong path.

 

I presented my views.. if you attune with them take them.. or leave

them. Nobody is forcing you to accept anything.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Respected Shri Aum ji,

 

Actually my reply was not aimed at you but that was my view in itself. Anyway, I

would beg your pardon if you felt bad.

 

With Regards,

 

Prabhat

 

--- On Thu, 10/7/08, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

aumji <no_reply >

 

 

If my experiences does not match with yours, that does not mean i am

 

on the wrong path.

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

> I am certainly against these so called tortures in the name of

> Sadhnaa.

 

> If they really want to show Matha your love i personally think

> devote more time to Meditation which will be fruitful. But mind

> never allows you to sit for long in meditation so in order to

> escape that they feel torturing physical body is better. Even

> Lord Buddha fasted and tortured his body and then gave all up

> stating these tortures are a waste and not needed at all.

 

Dear Sudhakar ji, this is very true. Buddha got enlightenment when

he broke his fast and accepted " Kheer " from lady called Sujata. In

gita Krishna says only those with moderate living are fit to be

yogis.

 

We all have to revolt against the hypocricy in the name of

religion. Hinduism has degenerated during last centuries due to

useless rituals and hypocricy.

 

In YA i was shocked to see more than 70% hindus told Shiva linga

means Penis of shiva !!!

 

Of course all are progressing on the path towards truth, but a

sadhaka has to see what is straight path towards truth and what is

zig-zag.

 

Best exmaple is Tantra philosophy. This philosophy is so great

that even reading it one gets out of most of the doubts. But people

with useless, sexual rituals and cheap siddhis, degenerated it so

low that today Tantra is known as a sex technique by most of the

people.

 

We have to bring back the glorious teachings of our religion and

remove all the hypocricy from it...be it Sati pratha, casteism, or

religious hypocricy, self tortures, cheap miracles etc.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

>> HARE KRISHAN , HARE RAM

 

> Please explain the shloka of gita where shri Krishna tells that

> those who torture me, sitting in their soul, in the name of Tapas

> are not fit to be Yogis.....before we discuss this subject further

 

 

Sir ji main kuch na jaaanoooooo

 

bas itna jaanoo ki yedi koi bhi mere Bhagwan Sri Krishan KO , PREM

BHAV se CHAHE JAISE BHI poooje ( chahe o ulta khara ho , ya chahe

Jokari hi kyon na kare par is bhav se ki Bhagwan Sri Krishan ko khus

kar raha hai ...............)to mere Bhagwan Swayam Usko jnan de

dete hain aur uski mukti bhi kar dete hain . yeh hi to unki vishesta

hai .

 

 

and the if you are referring the sloka 5-6 of chepter 17 Sir Ji

than i think that is for Asuras ..............Hence you are right

Sir Ji , ki saadhu roop main bhi rakshas ho sakte hain

 

Hence Sir Ji than please through some light in the case of Ravana

 

what kind of tapasvi he was .............................. Same as

Lord Sri Krishan described in sloka 5-6 og chepter 17 or something

else

 

i request it to all the Sadhakas to share your views for the case of

Ravana .

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM,.RAM RAM,HARE HARE

 

Thanks

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM ,RAM RAM ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja

wrote:

>>

> Hence Sir Ji than please through some light in the case of

Ravana

 

 

Dear Jitinderji,

 

Ravan was a mahagyani and his Tapasya for Shiva is unparalleled.

such Tapasvi when can not dissolve their ego and use their siddhis

to further inflate their ego, God takes pity on them and by killing

them, relieve them of their inflated ego...and they get Moksha.

 

It is better to be an Asura than becoming a religious hypocrite.

 

Surprisingly God always incarnated for Asura to kill them and to

give them Moksha..

 

Why no Bhakta or gyani could force god to incarnate and give them

Moksha ??

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, Prabhat Gupta <suprabhat_1999

wrote:

 

> Actually my reply was not aimed at you but that was my view in

itself. Anyway, I would beg your pardon if you felt bad.

>

 

Dear Suprabhat, there is no question of feeling bad or getting hurt.

We are sharing our views.

 

You have understood the truth in one way, which i do not deny. Others

are interpreting the truth in another way.

 

Please continue the Satsang

 

Love always

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Respected Shri Aum ji,

 

GOD sometimes does incarnate to give Moksha to HIS bhaktas. The example can be

quoted from the epic Ramayana in which Lord Ram freed Maa Ahilya (wife of The

Sage Gautam Rishi) who was turned to stone by the Rishi's curse. But, GOD most

of the time knows that a dedicated Sadhak/Bhakt will be able to transcend Maya

by His devotion and will naturally come to HIM. Hence HE most of the time

doesn't incarnate for freeing such devoted Souls.

 

With Regards,

Prabhat

 

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

aumji <no_reply >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to

http://in.promos./groups/

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

>

> It is better to be an Asura than becoming a religious hypocrite.

>

Thanks Sir Ji

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN .HARE HARE ,HARE RAM ,HARE

RAM ,RAM RAM,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

Respected Shri Aum ji,

 

I would like to say that an Asura can be termed as a non-religious hypocrite

always showing his negative powers, making others afraid...so I don't know how

is it better to be that. I think that everyone is growing and people who trying

to show their magical powers and influence people (by attaining some Siddhis)

are also growing. It's just that they are a bit immature (and need to work

more). Siddhis are a tool given by GOD as and when required (in the way towards

Realization). HE gives them because HE knows that a Sadhak might require them

for further growth. Now it's the sole responsibility of the Sadhak whether to

use them to grow or thrown back by misusing (under the influence of Maya). GOD

just gives it and it's the Soul's free will to utilize it. If the Sadhak misuses

them for material growth, he is deteorating. If he uses them properly for

Spiritual Advancement, he is sure to advance further towards Moksha. In the end,

it is he and only he who is

the sufferer (positively or negatively). I don't know how can this bother or

affect other Souls.

 

With Regards,

 

Prabhat

 

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

aumji <no_reply >

Re: THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

 

Friday, 11 July, 2008, 10:06 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ s.com, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja >

 

wrote:

 

 

Ravan was a mahagyani and his Tapasya for Shiva is unparalleled.

 

such Tapasvi when can not dissolve their ego and use their siddhis

 

to further inflate their ego, God takes pity on them and by killing

 

them, relieve them of their inflated ego...and they get Moksha.

 

 

 

It is better to be an Asura than becoming a religious hypocrite.

[Guest guest]

NAMO  OM  NARAYANAYA !

Aumji and other Sadhaks -- Pranams ;

Why Bhaktas or Gjnanis  could not force God to incarnate ?  This is an

interesting question .

To the extent I can understand SRIMADBHAGAVADGITA  incarnations of God occurring

in every  yuga  must serve three objectives in the order 1)Parithranaya sadhuna

2)Vinashayacha dushkrutan and  3)Dharma samsthapanaya

The first priority is protecting the righteous only  - but every time a good man

suffers if the Lord has to incarnate  HE  has to incarnate continuously without

a break .But as is seen in Purana s and Epics even great Gjnani s do not lose

their ego normally . Maa Draupadi did not lose her ego even while she was being

undressed in open court. She was holding her saree tight against her chest in an

attempt to protect her modesty. As long as she held her saree tight ,help did

not arrive. But when when she left her hands up pleading total helplessness and 

surrendered in toto help arrived  " AKSHAYAM " (endless).

When Gajendra was fighting crocodile for ten thousand years help did not arrive.

But once Gajendra in utter helplessness and totally tired pleaded " only YOU  can

save me " help arrived instantaneously.

Mata Sita under the Ashoka tree suffered a lot ,shed tears,gave up food ,water

or any other comfort. But only when she attempted the extreme step of hanging

herself using her long hair  as noose , Lord Hanuman spoke to Her and assured

Her safety.

Great Sages,Bhaktas, Gjnanis must lose their ego in toto  before help

arrives.The first person singular word in nominative or any other case

displeases The Lord. My sadhana,my opinion,my money my prayer or I write,I speak

etc remove God`s role. So He does not incarnate for me. " Did I not help others ? "

is a question God never answers.

 

The second priority is the destruction of the unrighteous.If every time someone

comits a sin or mistake God has to incarnate , again He should incarnate

indefinitely and continuously . That being the case Almighty gives a very long

rope to the unrighteous. Only when things reach a pass does God incarnate.

And the third one is establishing Dharma . This includes changing every one to

the Dharmic path.Every one includes trees animals, mountains,oceans and all

others. Establishing Dharma includes destroying the wicked if necessary. Ravan`s

death and Vibhishan`s coronation is a way and karmically correct way of

establishing the Dharma

May I seek the feed back of all sadhaks?

Thank you all 

ijswamy

 

 

 

 

~SWAMY

http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/

 

--- On Fri, 7/11/08, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

 

aumji <no_reply >

Re: THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

 

Friday, July 11, 2008, 12:36 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ s.com, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja >

wrote:

>>

> Hence Sir Ji than please through some light in the case of

Ravana

 

Dear Jitinderji,

 

Ravan was a mahagyani and his Tapasya for Shiva is unparalleled.

such Tapasvi when can not dissolve their ego and use their siddhis

to further inflate their ego, God takes pity on them and by killing

them, relieve them of their inflated ego...and they get Moksha.

 

It is better to be an Asura than becoming a religious hypocrite.

 

Surprisingly God always incarnated for Asura to kill them and to

give them Moksha..

 

Why no Bhakta or gyani could force god to incarnate and give them

Moksha ??

 

Aum

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

 

God has universal love for all, the good and the bad. It is only out of pity for

the Asuras to free them from the wretched life of ego, that God kills the Asuras

and liberate their souls. For the good, there is no need for resorting to such

drastic method.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat!

 

ulaganathan p

 

 

 

aumji <no_reply >

 

Friday, 11 July, 2008 10:06:02 AM

Re: THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

 

 

@ s.com, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja >

wrote:

>>

> Hence Sir Ji than please through some light in the case of

Ravana

 

Dear Jitinderji,

 

Ravan was a mahagyani and his Tapasya for Shiva is unparalleled.

such Tapasvi when can not dissolve their ego and use their siddhis

to further inflate their ego, God takes pity on them and by killing

them, relieve them of their inflated ego...and they get Moksha.

 

It is better to be an Asura than becoming a religious hypocrite.

 

Surprisingly God always incarnated for Asura to kill them and to

give them Moksha..

 

Why no Bhakta or gyani could force god to incarnate and give them

Moksha ??

 

Aum

 

 

 

 

Meet people who discuss and share your passions. Go to

http://in.promos./groups/bestof/

 

 

[Guest guest]

I've been away for a while and am just catching up with the old emails,

so you must forgive me for replying to an old email. As a silent

learner, I've also benefitted more than I can say from this forum.

 

I couldn't agree with you more that adding to your suffering is not

much use in itself as a saadhana.

 

However, wouldn't you say that if the goal is to reduce 'body

consciousness' then suffering has a role to play. If through suffering

you are able to realize that our material pleasures are as nothing then

you've made progress. Renunciates/Saadhus give up material wealth and

take on a lot of hardships just to enable them to get to the point

where their only focus in on God. The point to understand when we look

at someone thats standing on one foot for 10 years is not that he needs

a place in some record book, but that our perspective on what the human

body and mind can do is limited. We shouldn't be marvelling at these

achievements, but rather understand that we limit ourselves by our

belief systems (here I mean our beliefs about ourselves - not God).

 

Someone earlier said that once a Saadhak is able to achieve a certain

level of meditation - sleep, rest etc becomes unneccesary. The mind/God

controls the body of a Yogi. All these demonstrations are a sign of a

person's mastery over his/her body.

 

If you relish suffering (like some of the 'penitants' of the medieval

Spanish Inquisition) then you're hurting your spirit as well as your

body. If you lose sight of God and constantly focus on the suffering

(ie you are not able to raise yourself above your body focus) then

you've achieved nothing. Most people fall into the first or second

category. Hence for most of us, taking on intense tapas is not

productive.

 

Suffering should be differentiated from discipline, we've different

pain thresholds, and initially we need to push our body in order to

achieve discipline. For instance if you want to be able to meditate for

2-3 hours. We must be disciplined and try to improve a little every day.

 

My 2C.

 

Rgds

 

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> And this is the key point Sudhakarji- life of Sadhak is already

[Guest guest]

, satishvijayan <no_reply wrote:

>

> If you relish suffering (like some of the 'penitants' of the medieval

> Spanish Inquisition) then you're hurting your spirit as well as your

> body. If you lose sight of God and constantly focus on the suffering

> (ie you are not able to raise yourself above your body focus) then

> you've achieved nothing. Most people fall into the first or second

> category. Hence for most of us, taking on intense tapas is not

> productive.

>

>

 

Thanks Satish, this is exactly what i wished to say. Sufferings for

siddhis or to show to people or to satisfy the ego are not required in

Sadhna

 

Whatever is our share of pains, we are surely going to get it... yet

we should not yearn for it.

 

Welcome back to our satsang and we hope to hear from you more often

 

love

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Well said Satish, thanks a lot...

 

Regards,

 

Prabhat

 

--- On Thu, 17/7/08, satishvijayan <no_reply > wrote:

satishvijayan <no_reply >

Re: THE VIRTUE CALLED SUFFERING.

 

Thursday, 17 July, 2008, 7:32 PM