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The Ashta Paasha (8 chains)

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, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

>

> Hari Om!

> I used to understand 'lajja' as a positive force, meaning ' a

quality especially in women to blush, or chastity and in men a

quality of hestance to do an unwanted thing " . Am I right? How lajja

is an attribute which sends one away from Shiva?

 

 

Dear ulaganathan, Here Lajja is not taken in socio-moral perspective

but as a contraction force which blocks the freedom of the soul.

Any human bieng not doing a work, due to shame of

society/environment...is a blockade on one's total freedom.

 

I am re-posting my post on Ashta -Paasha.... after reading this

perhaps we can have more clarity...and when Jaya and Sohum have also

read this... I will reply to their latest querry

 

AUM

 

---------------------------

 

The Ashta Pasha

===============

 

As per Tantraa philosophy there are eight bondages/chains which bind

soul to the Maya. These bondages are Ghrina (Hate), Lajjaa (Shame),

Bhaya (Fear, shankaa(Doubt), Jugupsaa(censure/reproach), Kula

(caste), Jaati(creed) and Sheela (Modesty). Any consciousness which

is bound by these 8 bondages is called Jiva (Individual soul) and

the consciousness who is free from all these chains is called

Sadashiva (Universal consciousness - Free soul/God).

 

In Chapter 8 of Durga Saptshati, when Demons Chanda and Munda died,

Shumbha the demon king becomes angry and ordered his army to start

attacking. He cries , " O demons, I order all armies of Asuras

alongwith 86 Udyudhas, 84 Kambus, 50 Kotiviryas, 100 Dhomras,

Kalakas, Dauhrids, Mauryas and Kalkeya demons to march for war.

 

Here Durga Saptshati reveals a great secret of Tantraa and that of

Universe and Maya. Demon shumbha which represents our EGO names 8

types of demons to win over Good. These 8 types of demons in fact,

signify the Ashtapasha which bind a person to Maya.

 

These 8 bondages have been reflected as 8 demon types in Saptshati

and when Jiva invokes Mother Shakti, SHE fights these demons in us

and breaks the bondages created by these Asuras and makes us free …a

Sadashiva !!

 

The Chief demon Shumbha (depicting our Ego) is dependent on 8 demons

to win the war and he would cease to be powerful when his army is

killed. similarly Ego will cease to be once these 8 bondages are

removed. Now let us look into details what these chains are.

 

 

 

1- Hatered : Hate is depicted by demon Udayudha. when Shumbha says

86 Udayudhas be ready, it tells us about the 86 types of hatered

which aid our Ego and keeps us away from divinity. Hatered is a

double edged sword. It not only forces us not to love someone it

also nourishes our Ego telling it that it is better than the subject

being hated. Ego can hate in 86 ways thus there are 86 Udayudha

demons. Ten organs and Four Antakarnas, these fourteen generate hate

towards four types of living beings (trees, reptiles/insects,

animals and humans). Thus ego has total 56 types of hatered in

waking state. In dream state, organs are missing hence 4 antahkarnas

generate this hate for 4 types of living beings….and in dreamless

state ego hates ten organs and 4 anthakarans thus all total making

86 types of hatered. These demons keep the ego satisfied and

powerful. Mother shakti when evoked, kills these 86 hates and frees

our Ego from one bondage called Hatered.

 

2- Lajjaa (Shame) : This bondage has been depicted by Kambu demons.

Kambu is also a word for Conch signifying the animal who hides

behind the hard shell to protect himself from others. Here Shame or

hiding oneself from one's weakness and keeping away from others to

save one's self-respect. This is also a sort of bondage on the soul.

Soul hides itself beind 6 bodies and ten organs and four

antahkarnas, hence making its number as 84. Here durga saptashati

very bravely declares that these demons too are manifestations of

Mother only when it sings (in 5th chapter)

 

Yaa Devi sarva Bhuteshu Lajjaa rupen sansthhitaa

 

Namastasaye namastasaye namstasaye namoh namah

 

(The Mother who manifests in all jiva as Lajja please accept my

respects)

 

 

 

But to liberate ourselves into universal consciousness, this bondage

has to be removed.

 

 

 

3- Bhaya (Fear ) : This third bondage is depicted by demon

Kautivirya. Fear of death, feal of losing respect or nears and dears

keeps the ego busy in Maya and hinders its way towards greater

awareness. Durga Saptashati says Kautivirya is numbered 50. Ten

organs and 5 koshas of body (Pls see my post 5 bodies of the soul in

Saadhnaa club) are the place where fear is generated thus making the

number 50 of Kautivirya demons.

 

 

 

4 - Shankaa (Doubt) : this fourth bondage is shown as Dhaumra demon.

all the doubts arise due to distorted or false knowledge. Our 10

organs and 10 mahabhutas (earth, water, air, fire, ether - 5 in

gross and 5 in subtle plane) are their solace hence Shumbha calls

for 100 dhaumra demons to win the war.

 

Doubt keeps the ego busy thus keeping it entangled in Maya.

 

5- Jugupsa (censure/reproach): When due to false knowledge we see

others as different from us, we censure others to prove us right.

This too is treated as fifth bondage of the Soul. they are also of

100 types as in above para.

 

6- kula (caste): Dauhadri demon denotes proud of being related to

one's birth. Even after listening to Brahma Gyana many times, this

bondage of birth pride does not leave us. Only Mother's kindness can

kill this demon and free us from this chain. they are also of 100

types.

 

7 - Jaati (creed): Demon Kalkeya denotes it. Due to false knowledge,

Jiva is proud of his body being special (e.g. human body, white or

black) This bondage is very powerful and no theroetical knowledge of

God can remove this. Human souls is re-born again and again mainly

due to this bondage. They are also of 100 types

 

8- sheela (Modesty). This bondage is denoted by demon Maurya. The

modesty means Nature of Jiva, an idea Jiva makes about himself and

the universe during the course of his many births. This bondage is

also called Rudra-Granthi. Even after attaining the higher stages of

spirituality, one is not free from this bondage and only removal of

this bondage one is established into Advaita (union with god). An

example of shri Ramakrishna paramhansa will further explain this

bondage. When Guru Totapuri met paramhansa to teach him about

Advaita, and asked him to sit in samadhi, shri Paramhansa saw Mother

Kali only. then guru Totapuri ordered paramhansa to take an

imaginary sword and cut the throat of Mother Kali…Paramhansa was so

fond of Mother kali that he could not do it many times and finally

when he did that, he was lost into Nirvikalpa samadhi a state of

highest consciousness. So removal of this bondage is not easy. Only

god or a god-sent guru can remove this final Bondage from Jiva.

 

without removing these 8 bondages, Jiva can not know his real self.

People may try to do many types of sadhna, but these sadhnas

sometimes further strengthen the bondages. We have to remember one

thing there that Moksha and bondages both are in fact imaginary.

Getting out of bondages, one would find that there was nothing

called Moksha or bondage and one was already free.

 

then what is the way out to get ourselves free from these pashas? It

is not easy to get rid of these Pashas. In B.Geeta Bhagwan Krishna

says :-

 

Vishaya vinivartantey nirahaarasya dehina (The abstemious embodied

self, of course, keeps off sensible objects, but not necessarily the

relish for them.)

 

Is it easy to remove these 8 chains (divided into 720 types) so

easily? What is the way out then? YES there is one way. complete

surrender to the Mother. If we, like Paramhansa present our whole

being to the Mother, we will see that these demons come forward and

present themselves to the Mother for sacrifice on the altar of our

Yajna of Bhakti and liberate our soul towards greater truths.

 

To begin with, we have first to leave our cunningness, selfishness

and our false pride and surrender unconditionally to the Mother and

request her to break our chains. Mother will not listen to our

request if we first not purify ourselves . Lord Rama says in

Ramcharitmanas.

 

Nirmal guni jan so mohi pawa

 

Mohi kapat chhal chhidra na bhava

 

pious and purifed souls reach me

 

Because I do not like cunningness, selfishness and pride

 

 

 

So let us begin today on the eve of Durga Ashtami with no prejudice…

with no pride and with complete surrender…

 

Aum Krin Kalikaye namah

 

 

 

Hari Aum

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, aumji <no_reply wrote:

and when Jaya and Sohum have also

> Here Durga Saptshati reveals a great secret of Tantraa and that of

> Universe and Maya. Demon shumbha which represents our EGO names 8

> types of demons to win over Good. These 8 types of demons in fact,

> signify the Ashtapasha which bind a person to Maya.

>

Aum sir,

unfortunately after going through again and again, the concept is not

clear to my limited understanding.

 

shakti is everything as discussed yesterday including some evil forces

just like you cited example of an atom. It means astapasha/ maya is

also an attribute of shakti only. Awakening/ enlightenment is the

upword transition of energies...all with in maa shakti only. it means

everything is shakti still there is a fight between the good and evil

forces within the shakti? to help us move our energies upword...durga

saptshati comes in to force...to remove those bondages and free the

jivatma by purification in this way. is it so or something else

 

please share your wisdom to further clarify

 

thanks

 

so hum...

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, " so hum " <jigyaasuu wrote:

to my limited understanding.

 

> also an attribute of shakti only. Awakening/ enlightenment is the

> upword transition of energies...all with in maa shakti only. it means

> everything is shakti still there is a fight between the good and evil

> forces within the shakti? to help us move our energies upword...durga

> saptshati comes in to force...to remove those bondages and free the

> jivatma by purification in this way. is it so or something else

>

 

dear so-hum, you have yourself so beautifully explained the concept.

The differentiation is like this

 

=> a part of turiya becomes self-aware (ParamShiva)

 

=> Param-shiva sees Shakti as his own power

 

=> Shakti separates from shiva

 

=

..

adi shakti awakens the 3 gunas and a part of shakti becomes Prakriti

with 3 gunas

 

 

Devas are manifested with Sat and raj with a little bit of Tamoguna...

then tam increases and reaches its final saturation covering sat and

raj...and we reach upto the matter level.

 

Now sattvic forces start purifying the tam and the upward journey of

matter starts.

 

Here the Sat Raj and Tam have a fight... those forces which are egoist

and keeps away from shiva... we call them demons and those forces which

help in increasing our sat and remove Tam we call them devas

 

All is happening inside Adi-shakti. To manifest the universe she

allows Tamoguna to prevail and cover light of Sat...and then she starts

purifying increasing satoguna and finally leaving all gunas and going

back to its source, the Shiva.

 

This has been going on eternally for ever.

 

The war is between Sat and Tamoguna...and Adi shakti sends her

Sattvic powers down to fight the Tamoguni shaktis which are also part

of Adi-shakti.

 

So demons and devas are relative terms... in absolute terms there is

only adi shakti (or shiva)...but when we see things in the perspective

of Gunas, we name them demons asuras or devas.

 

 

all good or bad asura or deva, sat or raj is relative not absolute.

 

Aum:

 

PS Today i was watching animal planet... and i saw a lioness snatching

a fawn of a deer... ( and my wife exclaimed oh what a demon lioness

is0...the other moment the lioness was sharing the meat with her little

cubs... for them she is not cruel but a mother.

a lion comes and he kills those cubs... the lioness cries but next days

starts mating with the same lion...

 

in this episode what was cruel, what was demonic and what devas ?

Nature is doing her work... and adi shakti is watching smiling

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Dear Aumji,

 

You have put it so wonderfully, it clears many doubts splendidly

including the one raised here: how can She fight Her own creation,

Demon, - thanks.

 

Devi, literally means 'the shining one'. 'Devi' is the feminine

counterpart of 'Deva'- God - and hence means Goddess, no?

 

 

 

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

> dear so-hum, you have yourself so beautifully explained the concept.

> The differentiation is like this

>

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, aumji <no_reply wrote:

Dear Aumji,

 

Namaste!

 

For a person like you who confessed, was an atheist, what a

transformation to be a Mother's Bhakta? How do you feel about

your previous lifestyle? Any regrets? or do you consider it as

a part of evolving.

 

Further in your post you say, " Nature is doing her work...and

Adi Shati is watching smiling " . Tell me what pleasure she gets

by making us go through this GRIND. Did we have no choice in the

start of creation that we separated and descended down here to

go through 84 lakhs yoni travel?

 

Take your own sweet time to answer this.

 

With warm wishes.

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

 

> dear so-hum, you have yourself so beautifully explained the

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, " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams

wrote:

> Devi, literally means 'the shining one'. 'Devi' is the feminine

> counterpart of 'Deva'- God - and hence means Goddess, no?

>

Thanks thimmappa ji, The Devi we are talking about is not a simple

deva like Indra etc. although she has lower manifestations too (like

64 yoginis).

 

Adi shakti is equivalent to Shiva or Krishna.. in fact She is not

separate from them... it is the Ichha shakti of Shiva/Krishna whom

shakta call Adi shakti.

 

There is literally no difference between adi shakit and shiva... we

can say Shiva in action is Shakti and Shakti in sakshi bhava is Shiva

 

Love

aum

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

Dear Sudhakarji,

 

Thanks for your wise questions and your valueable posts in sadhna.

to answer your question on my transformation..

------------------------

>

> For a person like you who confessed, was an atheist, what a

> transformation to be a Mother's Bhakta? How do you feel about

> your previous lifestyle? Any regrets? or do you consider it as

> a part of evolving.

 

After becoming a Bhakta the first thing i came to know was that God

was controlling my life even when i did not have any faith in him...

and this true about everyone.... but others dont know it and a

sadhaka knows it.

 

so No regrets, no guilt and no complexes... that was necessary ..

the mental shocks were necessary to wake me up from the slumber.

 

================================================

>

> Further in your post you say, " Nature is doing her work...and

> Adi Shati is watching smiling " . Tell me what pleasure she gets

> by making us go through this GRIND. Did we have no choice in the

> start of creation that we separated and descended down here to

> go through 84 lakhs yoni travel?

>

===========================================

 

Fantastic question !!! This was my first question from the Mother

when I woke up !!! and then her reply came as a poem (in

hindi)...its rough translation is as follows

 

O Mother.... O my cruel Mother

 

How could you throw your new-born baby

 

into this black ocean ?

 

Where Dangerous sharks are ready

 

to gulp the infant

 

Where black-green poisnous snakes

 

show their fangs...ready to mix their

 

poison into the blood of the baby.

 

The baby could not even breathe when

 

the waves try to drown him deep

 

 

I ...that infant have now learnt

 

to tear the sharks into pieces

 

and to break the fangs of the snakes

 

Instead of being afraid of waves

 

I have learnt now to ride them

 

and proceed

 

 

O My loving Mother... now i know why

 

you smiled when your baby was

 

fighting the dangerous war

 

with the sharks, with the snakes

 

Because... you knew from the beginning

 

That inseminated by the Sperm of Truth

 

Your baby will surely win this war

 

Breaking all the barriers

 

Deafeating all the enemies

 

One day he will

 

Reach back to your lap

 

As an eternal winner !!!

 

-

 

So this is leela of God the make the universe again and again...

hide himself behind the veil of nature and become blissful on

finding himself again

 

 

love always

 

AUM

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, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Aumji,

 

Namaste!

 

Thanks for your reply. Your poem says it all but still i feel it is

incomplete. The question is why many other souls are still in

ANAMI region enjoying SUPER BLISS. Why they were not thrown in

this sansar. What stupidity we did or atleast i did that i

ventured from bliss to despair. Any ideas?

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

.. The question is why many other souls are still in

> ANAMI region enjoying SUPER BLISS. Why they were not thrown in

> this sansar. What stupidity we did or atleast i did that i

> ventured from bliss to despair. Any ideas?

>

 

Sudhakarji, I personally do not believe in sin or evil...i also do

not treat all souls in the universe as sinners . Pain is a relative

term and is created by mind.

 

Those souls which are not yet awakened to the truth are in the

universe, and those which have realissed the truth are out of this

cycle.

 

Stupidity...if we call it stupid... is only induldging in the

universe through the info recd. from Indriyas..

 

lower shakti which first reached upto Tamoguna level... is trying

to break the tam and get out of gunas. All the pains and suffering

are transit points which all of us have to cross before reaching the

bliss. Those who are there now have undergone their share of

pains...each one has to undergo this transit faze some have crossed

it, some are crossing it and some will cross it in future..

 

and this goes on eternally

 

Hari Aum

 

This is eternal leela of god and has no end or beginning

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, aumji <no_reply wrote:

Dear Aumji,

 

Namaste!

 

Wow! i follow your beautiful explanation which is very true but

what i heard was that THE LORD ASKED AT THE START FOR ALL OF US

TO GO AND EXPERIENCE THE LOWER WORLDS. THOSE WHO REFUSED REMAINED

IN BLISS STATE UP - SOME WERE RELUCTANTLY CAJOLED/FORCED TO GO

WITH A PROMISE THAT SOMEONE WOULD BE SENT TO ROUND UP THE SOULS

WHO WANTED TO RETURN BACK AND REST MAJORITY WOULD END UP IN

NEVER ENDING CYCLE OF COMING AND GOING. THIS IS WHAT CHRIST MEANT

WHEN HE SAID, I COME NOT TO SAVE THE WORLD BUT FOR THE " MARKED

SOULS " . THUS IN EVERY CENTURY A TRUE MASTER COMES TO PICK UP HIS

''MARKED SOULS'' AND NOT EVERYONE UNLESS THEY HAVE BURNING DESIRE

IN WHICH CASE THEIR NEXT BIRTH WOULD BE IN A BETTER CONGENIAL

ATMOSPHERE TO AWAIT THE NEXT LIVING MASTER TO INTIATE AND TAKE YOU

UP THERE PERMANENTLY.

 

So my question is, atleast i might have been forced to come here

against my wishes, WHY? Please do not say I needed that experience

or do not say GO UP AND ASK HIM WHY?

 

Any guesses?

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

> , aumji <no_reply@> wrote:

> Dear Aumji,

>

 

> So my question is, atleast i might have been forced to come here

> against my wishes, WHY? Please do not say I needed that experience

> or do not say GO UP AND ASK HIM WHY?

 

Aumji has already answered this question very well, there is nothing

to add. So I will apporach from a different direction.

 

Sudhakarji, God never " tricks " , forces or cajoles anyone into taking

birth, nor is there any " Messiah " coming to save you. This goes

against the whole teaching of Hinduism, as high level Rishis & Gods

want to be born here, & actually have to wait in a line to be born here.

 

There are no " prophets " coming to save a " chosen few " . Gods system is

not random, elitist or cruel. This is a free Universe full of Gods

delight. You are free to make progress or not- nobody will force you

on either path.

 

We start off as rocks, evolve to plants, animals then humans. If you

want to progress further to Divinity, its completely your choice. God

will help you if you want to, or help you if you want to stay human.

 

The way to progress is to stop indulging in self pity ,the " poor me,

what did I deserve to get stuck here " thinking. It is to accept the

Higher Law of evolution, accept there is a Shakti willing to guide us

beyond, accept that out fate is decided by a force beyond our control.

 

 

There are negative/positive forces fighting here, but that doesnt

concern the Yogi. There might be demons, Gods, evil- none of it

matters. All that matters to the Yogi is that he behaves honestly in

following the orders of Shakti. For this he might have to run away to

junlges, live a married life, or murder all his relatives(like Arjuna

had to)- it doesnt matter. All that matters to the Yogi is he does

Shaktis work as best he can- & leave the results to God as Krishna

tells Arjuna.

 

 

with love

Shantnu

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Friends,

 

Our own actions has made us take birth here and it is our own actions

that determine whether or not ( or how ) we take birth here. Let us

not bring God into picture here or to our mess we have made here!God

has given us full freedom to follow His fantastic/glorious

Order/Creation and reap the benefit of Peace and Prosperity or doom to

our misery. Let us choose wisely and be worthy to receive His

abundance. Pray to help us in that.

 

Best wishes,

 

M.S.Thimmappa.

 

-- In , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

> , aumji <no_reply@> wrote:

> Dear Aumji,

>

> Namaste!

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, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanuji,

 

Namaste!

 

Thanks very much for your explanation. I guess sometimes one does

get overwhelmed by circumstances beyond his control and feels

helpless and thus seeks solace wherever he may find.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

 

 

> Aumji has already answered this question very well, there is nothing

> to add. So I will apporach from a different direction.

>

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

 

What is the position of Krishna in this Shiva-Shakti concept ?

 

Are we really forced to come to earth?

 

Who is this " WE "

 

jaya

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, " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams

wrote:

> Our own actions has made us take birth here and it is our own actions

> that determine whether or not ( or how ) we take birth here. Let us

> not bring God into picture here or to our mess we have made here!God

> has given us full freedom to follow His fantastic/glorious

> Order/Creation and reap the benefit of Peace and Prosperity or doom

to

> our misery. Let us choose wisely and be worthy to receive His

> abundance. Pray to help us in that.

 

 

Wow...thimmappa ji you have summed up in simple words.

 

The first thing a good sadhaka has to learn is to " Stop " blaming god,

or Karma or devas for our plight.

 

We have to decided ourselves what would be our future.

 

Love

 

Aum

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, jaya_sundram <no_reply wrote:

>

> Are we really forced to come to earth?

>

> Who is this " WE "

>

> jaya

>

 

 

When the game began, no one was forced... but in transition

phases, the soul is forced by its Karma to take birth as human or

asura or deva.... this forcing of karma continues till we have

advanced enough to transcend the karma and go beyond the clutches of

Maya

 

" WE " is used for individual soul(Jeevatma)... which is subject to

the forces of Nature, Karma and fate.

 

As long as Jeeva induldges in worldly affairs and does not see his

true source, he is subject to these forces.

 

Aum

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, jaya_sundram <no_reply wrote:

Hello Jayaji,

 

Namaste!

 

The WE in this case the " INDIVIDUAL SOUL "

 

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9@> wrote:

>

>

> What is the position of Krishna in this Shiva-Shakti concept ?

>

> Are we really forced to come to earth?

>

> Who is this " WE "

>

> jaya

>

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, aumji <no_reply

 

 

 

Dear Aumji,

 

Namaste!

 

After my query to you, Shantanuji answered and i felt somehow i

have not been able to convince/express myself properly so i preferred

to reply to Shantanuji - Thanks.

 

Then followed Thimappa's/Swamji's posting and your comments on that

so i will try once more last time.

 

If you understand, it is your greatness, if you do not it is my

WEAKNESS as to not to be able to expresss myself properly.

 

Before i begin, even the great lord shankaracharya had duality

problem with him so lord shiva came in the form of Chandala and

posed a question to Shankaracharya that God exists in both of us

so why differentiation?

 

Here i am not comparing myself to shiva for god sake do not assume

that please.

 

Now let us ASSUME you are living in New Delhi. You have a pair of

twins as your children. You have opened a branch in kerala. You

want both of your twins to go and see the kerala branch. The elder

of the twins agrees to that but the junior refuses. At this you

convince your junior - when you feel bored and lonely, i will send

Ramu Kaka (a crude comparison to a living master) to get you.

 

Accordingly junior enjoys, occassionally he just sms you that

everything is fine but when he finds things too hot to handle

he calls you but you feel he is not yet ready so you ignore.

Ultimately he keeps sending daily sms and phones you, so you decide

to send Ramu Kaka for him (your junior son) but your other elder

son is not bothered - he is still enjoying his stay in kerala.

 

So your sending Ramu Kaka for your junior does it amount to

partiality? No! Definitely No. It is in this context i said,

" CHOSEN FEW " that doesn't mean God is partial to few.

 

I hope this no doubt crude example convinces you if not it is my

FAULT and not yours and for that i express my inability to

convince you or others.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! :o)

 

 

> Wow...thimmappa ji you have summed up in simple words.

>

> The first thing a good sadhaka has to learn is to " Stop " blaming

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

> So your sending Ramu Kaka for your junior does it amount to

> partiality? No! Definitely No. It is in this context i said,

> " CHOSEN FEW " that doesn't mean God is partial to few.

>

Respected Sudhakarji,

 

I feel we both are talking about Truth from two different

prospectives..and both are correct in our own way.

 

While it is true that Gurus are being sent by god to guide the

souls towards truth, but sending souls at their own wish cant be

understood properly. Some times god incarnates himself to show the

path.

 

As per my understanding, the matter has evolved into vegetations,

and vegetations into animals and animals into humans. Human beings

are evolving towards their source i.e. God

 

It is quite possible that in the beginning of Kalp some higher

souls are given a choice to either be born again for further

development or remain at some levels ...but this does not seem to be

true for all the human souls.

 

Please enlighten us further to see the truth from your angle

 

Aum

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, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

> Dear Aumji,

>

> Namaste!

>

> After my query to you, Shantanuji answered and i felt somehow i

 

 

Sudhakarji, you whole post is based on premise that this world is

evil, wicked, we are stuck here against our will, there is a " better "

place. Thats what Shankaracharya preached, & how Christians have

interpreted Jesus teachings. If you believe this, then yes, what you

are saying is true, if we keep calling to God, he will rescue us from

this " evil " place as God doesnt want anyone to suffer.

 

But that means our progress will stop where it was, as progress in

higher worlds is really slow- millions of their years is equal to few

months of ours in terms of progress.

 

But what Aumji is saying is- this world is not evil, wicked, we are

not stuck here, rather we came here willingly to make spiritual

progress. Of all the Universes, only 10% are physical. That means 90%

of beings live in astral/causal worlds where this is little or no

misery- yet they want to be born here(at least the higher level ones

do). They have to stand in a line & wait for suitable conditions. When

they do get a chance, they have no right to complain that life here is

tough, as life on Earth is only for spiriutal progress under guidance

of Ma Shakti- nothing else.

 

You see- it depends on ones viewpoint. Thats why I said in last post-

there is no good, no evil, there is only an undescribable power that

runs the Universe, whose only job is to make Souls progress to

Divinity.......I read this somewhere:

 

" The life of a Yogi is tough, with many challenges- but no matter how

tough he finds it, how many tears he sheds, how many times he cries,

his fate wont move even by a hairs breadth. Thats the price he pays

for trying to go beyond human-ness into God-ness "

 

 

with love

Shantnu

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, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

> Sudhakarji, you whole post is based on premise that this world is

> evil, wicked, we are stuck here against our will, there is a " better "

> place. Thats what Shankaracharya preached, & how Christians have

> interpreted Jesus teachings. If you believe this, then yes, what

 

Dear Shantnu, Is this physical world not wicked ? we do have lot of

miseries, sufferings and pains here ?

 

Like a pigeon, we can not close our eyes to the cat and refuse the

reality of pains and miseries? How do we deal with these as a sadhaka?

 

jaya

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Dear Shantnu,

 

This is really nice explanation and has given answers to many questions but as

we all know that in Kalyuga, karmas are always given preference and if we

perform good karmas good things will happen in our live and likewise. So if we

talk about karmas what should be the actual definition of the same, are these

predefined activities which we are preforming or it is only us (human mind) who

has to decide what to do.

Like if someone is a thief, shall we say that he is doing wrong karmas or shall

we say that it is in his destiny that he has to be a thief in this janma which

was predefined by the supreme power?

I hope I am able to explain my question in a better way.

 

regards,

Amit Arora

 

 

 

 

shanracer <no_reply >

@ s.com, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9@.. .> wrote:

>

> @ s.com, aumji <no_reply@> wrote:

..

 

There are no " prophets " coming to save a " chosen few " . Gods system is

not random, elitist or cruel. This is a free Universe full of Gods

delight. You are free to make progress or not- nobody will force you

on either path.

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Hari Om!

For the past few months, I have been reading- say singing aloud in my own crude

way- the hymns of 'Devaram', the wonderful collection of bhakti literature in

Tamil, which stemmed the tide of Jainism and Buddhism in this part of the

country, in 8-10 BC. There is one particular song of Thirunavukkarasar Swamigal,

one of the 63 saiva saints ( nayanmargal, as they are called in Tamil), in

praise of Lord Shiva, which has deeply impressed me. Let me give a crude

transalation of it here:-

   " Lord Shiva is dispassionate;

     He graces all except those

     Who seek Him not:

     And He bestows His grace

     On any day and every day;

    

     Even if you are not born of high-caste(kulam)

     He gives you according to your birth(kulam) "

The above English translation, I am afraid, has not properly conveyed the sense

that God shows His grace irrepective of ones kulam (caste). The psalm uses the

word 'salamilan' to describe Him as some one who is never partial. But, He

discriminates in giving the suitable reward to His devotess, according to their

calling. Even in Vishnu Sahashranamam, there is reference to Lord Vishnu giving

different bounties, according to the Varna. For the Kshastriya, He give victory

(Vijayee bhaveth)and for the Sudras, He gives 'sukam' (Skukam avapnuyath) etc.

Impartiality does not entail His giving the same gift. It is according to ones

need and standing. God, if ever He chooses, chooses the suitable forms of grace

rather than people. All of us are entitled to His bounty, which comes to us in

abundance.

Hari Om Tat Sat!

ulaganathan p

 

 

 

spbyoga9 <spbyoga9

Dear Aumji,

 

Namaste!

 

After my query to you, Shantanuji answered and i felt somehow i

have not been able to convince/express myself properly so i preferred

to reply to Shantanuji - Thanks.

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, jaya_sundram <no_reply wrote:

 

> Dear Shantnu, Is this physical world not wicked ? we do have lot of

> miseries, sufferings and pains here ?

>

> Like a pigeon, we can not close our eyes to the cat and refuse the

> reality of pains and miseries? How do we deal with these as a >sadhaka?

 

Jayaji, I have answered this in my earlier post of the Ocean & the

Wave. It is post number 13375, you can enter this number in window

that says " Message # " to read it again.

 

with love

Shantnu

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, Amit Arora <catchamityonline wrote:

>

> Dear Shantnu,

>

> This is really nice explanation and has given answers to many

> Like if someone is a thief, shall we say that he is doing wrong

>karmas or shall we say that it is in his destiny that he has to be a

>thief in this janma which was predefined by the supreme power?

 

 

Amitji, it depends on who the person is.

 

If he is an ordinary person, then yes he is bound by law of Karma,

after death he will goto hell, get beaten up, learn his lesson, take

another birth, make more mistakes.......this will continue.

 

If he is a Yogi, he is no longer bound by the childish law of Karma,

which says that God is a simple judge who gives lollipops to good boys

& smackings to bad ones. The Yogi is bound by the Law of Cosmic

Harmony, which states the whole Universe is alive & concious. If the

Yogis actions increase harmony in the universe, they are virtue, else

they are sin. The actual actions dont matter, & the Yogi may well be

expected to be a fighter like Arjun or peaceful man like Vidur.

 

As I wrote earlier, its not actions that matter, but the conciousness

they are done in. Krishna fought wars, danced with Gopis, kidnapped

Rukimini(it was kidnapping as per rules of the time), yet he wasnt

bound by his actions, as he did everything with supreme awareness.

 

There is a story about Kabir- he would feed whoever came to him, even

though his income was almost nil. They were upto their neck in debt, &

people refused to give him anymore money. Even then, Kabir invited a

group of Sadhus for lunch. His son threw up his hands & said " but we

have no food, even for ourselves! " . Kabir said dont worry, God will

provide.

 

It became night before lunch, & still no food. Kabirs sons said " The

only way for us is to steal " . He said it to shock his father into

admitting they were beaten, but Kabir said " Ok, lets go & rob the rich

landlord " . His son thought he was joking, & decided to play along. Yet

he was surprised when they actually jumped into the house & his father

started stealing food. The son said, " But father, this is stealing " .

Kabir replied, " so what? We need food, they have some extra of it,

whats wrong if I take some? We are all children of God, Im taking from

God, not from them. " As they were leaving, Kabir said to his son

" Theres 1 more thing to do: wake up the owner, & tell him we've stolen

his food. Invite him to lunch as well " .

 

At this, the son fell down with shock. " But they will kill me! " he

said. " It doesnt matter- they must not get worried who stole their

food. This way they will know it was us who stole " . " But then they

will call police! " " Let them " Kabir replied. " They can do their job,

we will do ours. Be sure to invite them too " .

 

Since Kabir never went to jail, it seems his rich landlord didnt call

the police after all. But it shows how higher souls are not bound by

the law of Karma, but follow a higher law.

 

I will repeat again what I said, to show how important it is: There is

evil in the world, people are suffering, little children die, there is

also happiness, with people swimming in luxury. Yet none of this

matters to the Yogi- all that matters is he follows Shaktis path for

him without doubt or debate, with full awareness & honesty. This is

the only freedom available to the Yogi. The Yogi knows if he follows

this path, he will reach full freedom, but till he does, he has to

follow the rules of the Motherly Force that rules our destiny, & whom

in India we worship as Ma Shakti.

 

with love

Shantnu

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