Brahman or Bhagavan

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

why is there more importance on Bhagavan than Brahman?

some people say realizing brahman is like "spiritual suicide"

[bhaktajan 0]

The goal to become one with the impersonal Brahman is greater than any material desire, but it is not without self-interest.

Similarly, the mystic yogé who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self.

But a person acting in Kåñëa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole, without self-interest.

A Kåñëa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction.

His criterion of success is the satisfaction of Kåñëa, and thus he is the perfect sannyäsé, or perfect yogé.

 

 

 

çré bhagavän uväca

 

idaà tu te guhyatamaà

pravakñyämy anasüyave

jïänaà vijïäna-sahitaà

yaj jïätvä mokñyase ’çubhät

 

 

 

“The Supreme Lord said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most secret wisdom, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.” (Bg. 9.1)

The opening words of the Ninth Chapter of Bhagavad-gétä indicate that the Supreme Godhead is speaking. Here Çré Kåñëa is referred to as Bhagavän. Bhaga means opulences, and vän means one who possesses.

We have some conception of God, but in the Vedic literature there are definite descriptions and definitions of what is meant by God, and what is meant is described in one word—Bhagavän. Bhagavän possesses all opulences, the totality of knowledge, wealth, power, beauty, fame and renunciation.

When we find someone who possesses these opulences in full, we are to know that he is God. There are many rich, wise, famous, beautiful and powerful men, but no one man can claim to possess all of these opulences. Only Kåñëa claims to possess them in totality.

 

 

 

bhoktäraà yajïa-tapasäà

 

sarva-loka-maheçvaram

suhådaà sarva-bhütänäà

jïätvä mäà çäntim åcchati

 

 

 

“The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries.” (Bg. 5.29)

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

Thank you for your time.

 

So what about a person who worships god as Mother for instance, i understand they see her as a image to get to Brahman.

 

so what is the diffrence between there image and Sri Krsna.

 

And if Sri krsna has a supreme spiritual body that means he has legs, and arms and hands and a face right?

[lokeshvara 0]

Namaste,

 

my own understanding is that God has both impersonal and personal form. the impersonal is Brahman and the personal being Bhagavan. Some claim Brahman to be the supreme reality but i do not believe this to be true. Brahman is the aspect of Bhagavan that permeates the entire universe however it is not the ultimate. Our true existence is a relationship with Bhagavan. Some call him Krishna, others Vishnu, others Shiva, others still Devi. Krishna revealed in the Bhagavad Gita that he is all these things.

 

I do not see much difference between Devi and Krishna in that it is how we relate to God. The divine mother is a manifestion of certain aspects of God that some people relate to. There may be some who disagree but while I consider Vishnu/ Krishna to be the ultimate form of God I don't like sectarianism and I have a lot of respect for Shivaji and Ganga Ma for the help they have given me in finding my way to vaishnavism.

 

To answer your question, yes God has a body and it is the most beautiful and perfect ever to exist. It is attractive to all.

 

Hari Om!

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

Thank you for your time.

 

is it that Sri Krsna is the only one who posseses a spiritual form?

 

how can one aspect of God be higher than the other?

 

i dont like sectarian either it makes everything confusing.

[melvin 1]

 

Thank you for your time.

 

is it that Sri Krsna is the only one who posseses a spiritual form?

 

how can one aspect of God be higher than the other?

 

i dont like sectarian either it makes everything confusing.

 

Dear iamwhatisayiam,

 

Would you like to reach the status of Brahman? Brahma the creator of the universe has symbolically 4 heads. Others have ten or hundred heads. There`s a saying: That two heads are better than one. Brahma when he creates use four of his heads before he decides what to create. Maybe this is what they meant of akin to suicide if one wishes to situate himself in Brahman because in Bhagavan, only one head is used.

 

----

[bhaktajan 0]

1] Regarding, “God as Mother” –I have been exploring this very topic without other poster’s inputting their thoughts upon this topic, yet.

Yet now, you, iamwhatisayiam have brought it up here.

Below is a story that can be dated –but “what is that date?”

It may be observed that ‘time-line’ clues are sprinkled through-out this puranic tale –but I digress, herein is the story of the birth of maha-sakti [who undoubtly herein is ‘literally’ known and shown as the internal potency of Visnu].

{My super-esoteric contemplation/speculation is, that before Godhead first acted, in any capacity or to any degree HE was dormant and unmanifested and at peace and self-contained with all potentiality, innately asleep ---but then HIS ‘internal-creative-feminine’ opulence/potencies stirred HIM to arise and Create and then to sport etc etc etc --- that’s as far as my speculation goes}

 

Anyway, the greatest Srimati Maha-Laxshmi Mata Adi-devi-ji uniquely [by default] obtains thee broadchest of MahaVishnu herself exclusively--and that seems just and right and nectarian. It is nectarian to me because I am aware of the sentiments of the servants of the servants of the childhood pastimes down on the dairy farm of vraja dhama that is revealed as the KINGDOM OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.

 

God, by definition, is the first person.

God, by definition, possesses all "Six Opulences" in-full, par-excellance.

"Six Opulences" are: All beauty, all strength, all wealth, all intelligence, all fame, & lastly all renunciation.

 

Mind you, God IS TRANSCENDENTAL TO THE COSMOS --the same cosmos that the demigod Lord Brahma and all of us live in. The realm of heaven is out side the cosmos and that realm of heaven is alit by the light that begins in God's own bodily effulgence and is also the same rays of light that conversely form the 'space/void/field' where the material elements evolve herein Brahma's ''brahmanda" [egg-shaped enclosure of our cosmos] --our cosmos float in the space that is the very thing called BRAHMAN.

 

The phantasmagoria of the cosmic flux of elements and forms and places and people and names and things and times and seasons and the good and the bad and the rule of duality is: temporary and relative.

 

Whereas, Brahman is absolute.

 

Whereas, the soul is transcendental.

 

Yoga [linking-up] is about the soul's "orienting" itself to restablish its 'eternal duty' [sanatana-dharma] as a 'self-realized' person, an thus, part and parcel of the supreme Soul God Almightly, who Himself is Far away but, ironically God is also in the individual soul as the Life-force/consciouness the animates the body via the souls presence.

 

God prevades our material Cosmos and also, the entirety of the whole of creation simultaneously in 3 Features:

1] God Exists as brahman [the empty-void/Absolute-Zero space/all-prevading/omnipresent field],

2] God Exists as Param-atma [the force in the nucleus of every 'animate & inanimate' speck/molecule of creation].

3] God Exists as Bhagavan. [The Personage of God Himself; with his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage and pastimes of none-other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead himself, Bhagavan Shree Krishna].

 

Excerpted from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana:

 

 

 

. . . "It is I.I am Your great maha-sakti,

 

 

 

 

Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. . . .”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or

 

 

 

 

How the first Ekadasi Fast day, “Utpanna Ekadasi” was born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lord Sri Krishna:

“I will tell you why Ekadasi is the most purifying of all days.

In the Satya-Yuga there once lived an amazingly fearsome demon called Mura.

Always very angry, he terrified all the demigods, defeating even Indra, the king of heaven; Vivasvan, the sun-god; the eight Vasus; Lord Brahma; Vayu. the wind-god; and Agni, the fire-god. With his terrible power he brought them all under his control.

"'Lord Indra then approached Lord Shiva and said, "We have all fallen from our planets and are now wandering helplessly on the earth. O lord, how can we find relief from this affliction? What will be the fate of us demigods?'

"'Lord Shiva replied, "O best of the demigods, go to that place where Lord Vishnu, the rider of Garuda, resides. He is Jagannatha, the master of all the universes and their shelter as well. He is devoted to protecting all souls surrendered to Him.'"

"Lord Krishna continued, 'O Arjuna, winner of wealth, after Lord Indra heard these words of Lord Shiva's, he proceeded with all the demigods to the place where Lord Jagannatha, the Lord of the universe, the protector of all souls, was resting.

Seeing the Lord sleeping upon the water, the demigods joined their palms and, led by Indra, recite the following prayers:

"'"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, all obeisances to You. O Lord of lords, O You who are praised by the foremost demigods, O enemy of all demons, O lotus-eyed Lord, O Madhusudana (killer of the Madhu demon), please protect us. Afraid of the demon Mura, we demigods have come to take shelter of You. O Jagannatha, You are the doer of everything and the creator of everything. You are the mother and the father of all universes. You are the creator, the maintainer, and the destroyer of all. You are the supreme helper of all the demigods, and You alone can bring peace to them. You alone are the earth, the sky, and the universal benefactor.

"'"You are Shiva, Brahma, and also Vishnu, the maintainer of the three worlds. You are the gods of the sun, moon, and fire. You are the clarified butter, the oblation, the sacred fire, the mantras, the rituals, the priests, and the silent chanting of japa. You are the sacrifice itself, its sponsor, and the enjoyer of its results, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nothing within these three worlds, whether moveable or immovable, can exist independent of You.

O Supreme Lord, Lord of lords, You are the protector of those who take shelter of You. O supreme mystic, O shelter of the fearful, please rescue and protect us. We demigods have been defeated by the demons and have thus fallen from the heavenly realm. Deprived of our positions, O Lord of the universe, we are now wandering about this earthly planet."'

"Lord Krsna continued, 'Having heard Indra and the other demigods speak these words, Sri Vishnu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, replied, "What demon possesses such great powers of delusion that he has been able to defeat all the demigods? What is his name, and where does he live? Where does he get his strength and shelter? Tell Me everything, O Indra, and do not fear."

"'Lord Indra replied, "O Supreme Godhead, O Lord of lords, O You who vanquish the fear in Your pure devotees' hearts, O You who are so kind to your faithful servants, there was once a powerful demon of the Brahma dynasty whose name was Nadijangha. he was extraordinarily fearsome and wholly dedicated to destroying the demigods, and he begot an infamous son named Mura.

"'"Mura's great capital city is Chandravati. From that base the terribly evil and powerful Mura demon has conquered the whole world and brought all the demigods under his control, driving them out of their heavenly kingdom. He has assumed the roles of Indra, the king of heaven; Agni, the fire-god; Yama, the lord of death; Vayu, the wind-god; Isha, or Lord Shiva; Soma, the moon-god; Nairrti, the lord of the directions; and Pasi, or Varuna, the water-god. He has also begun emanating light in the role of the sun-god and has turned himself into the clouds as well. It is impossible for the demigods to defeat him. O Lord Vishnu, please kill tis demon and make the demigods victorious."

"'Hearing these words from Indra, Lord Janardana became very angry and said, "O powerful demigods, all together you may now advance on Mura's capital city of Chandravati." Encouraged thus, the assembled demigods proceeded to Chandravati with Lord Hari leading the way.

"'When Mura saw the demigods, that foremost of demons started roaring very loudly in the company of countless thousands of other demons, who were all holding brilliantly shining weapons. The mighty-armed demons struck the demigods, who began abandoning the battlefield and fleeing in the ten directions.

Seeing the Supreme Lord Hrsikesha, the master of the senses, present on the battlefield, the furious demons rushed toward Him with various weapons in their hands. As they charged the Lord, who holds a sword, disk, and club, He immediately pierced all their limbs with His sharp, poisonous arrows. thus many hundred of demons died by the Lord's hand.

"'At last the chief demon, Mura, began fighting with the Lord. Mura used his mystic power to render useless whatever weapons the Supreme Lord Hrsikesa unleashed. Indeed, to the demon the weapons felt just like flowers striking him. When the Lord could not defeat the demon even with various kinds of weapons - whether those that are thrown or those that are held - He began fighting with His bare hands, which were as strong as iron-studded clubs.

The Lord wrestled with Mura for one thousand celestial years and then, apparently fatigued, left for Badarikashrama. There Lord Yogeshvara, the greatest of all yogis, the Lord of the universe, entered a very beautiful cave named Himavati to rest.

O Dhananjaya, winner of wealth, that cave was ninety-six miles in diameter and had only one entrance. I went there out of fear, and also to sleep. There is no doubt about this, O son of Pandu, for the great fight made me very tired. the demon followed Me into that cave and, seeing Me asleep, started thinking within his heart, "Today I will kill this slayer of all demons, Hari."

"'While the wicked-minded Mura was making plans in this way, from My body there manifested a young girl who had a very bright complexion. O son of Pandu, Mura saw that she was equipped with various brilliant weapons and was ready to fight.

Challenged by that female to do battle, Mura prepared himself and then fought with her, but he became very astonished when he saw that she fought him without cessation. The king of the demons then said, "Who has created this angry, fearsome girl who is fighting me so powerfully, just like a thunderbolt falling upon me?' After saying this, the demon continued to fight with the girl.

"'Suddenly that effulgent goddess shattered all of Mura's weapons and in a moment deprived him of his chariot. He ran toward her to attacker with his bare hands, but when she saw him coming she angrily cut off his head.

Thus the demon at once fell to the ground and went to the abode of Yamaraja. The rest of the Lord's enemies, out of fear and helplessness, entered the subterranean Patala region.

"'Then the Supreme Lord woke up and saw the dead demon before Him, as well as the maiden bowing down to him with joined palms. His face expressing His astonishment, the Lord of the universe said, "Who has killed this vicious demon? He easily defeated all the demigods, Gandharvas, and even Indra himself, along with Indra's companions, the Maruts, and he also defeated the Nagas (snakes), the rulers of the lower planets.

He even defeated Me, making Me hide in this cave out of fear. Who is it that has so mercifully protected Me after I ran from the battlefield and went to sleep in this cave?"

"'The maiden said, "It is I who have killed this demon after appearing from Your transcendental body. Indeed, O Lord Hari, when he saw You sleeping he wanted to kill You. Understanding the intention of this thorn in the side of the three worlds, I killed the evil rascal and this freed all the demigods from fear.

I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. I have killed this universally terrifying demon to protect the three worlds. Please tell me why You are surprised to see that this demon has been killed, O Lord."

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O sinless one, I am very satisfied to see that it is you who have killed this king of the demons. In this way you have made the demigods happy, prosperous, and full of bliss.

Because you have given pleasure to all the demigods in the three worlds, I am very pleased with you. Ask any boon you may desire, O auspicious one. I will give it to you without a doubt, though it be very rare among the demigods."

""The maiden said, "O Lord, if You are pleased with me and wish to give me a boon, then give me the power to deliver from the greatest sins that person who fasts of this day.

I wish that half the pious credit obtained by one who fasts will accrue to one who eats only in the evening (abstaining from grains and beans), and that half of this pious credit will be earned by one who eats only at midday.

Also, may one who strictly observes a complete fast on my appearance day, with controlled senses, go to the abode of Lord Vishnu for one billion kalpas after he has enjoyed all kinds of pleasures in this world.

This is the boon I desire to attain by Your mercy, my Lord, O Lord Janardana, whether a person observes complete fasting, eats only in the evening, or eats only at midday, please grant him a religious attitude, wealth, and at last liberation."

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O most auspicious lady, what you have requested is granted. All My devotees in this world will surely fast on your day, and thus they will become famous throughout the three worlds and finally come and stay with me in My abode. Because you, My transcendental potency, have appeared on the eleventh day of the waning moon, let your name by Ekadasi. If a person fasts on Ekadasi, I will burn up all his sins and bestow upon him My transcendental abode.

"'"These are the days of the waxing and waning moon that are most dear to Me: Tritiya (the third day), Ashthami (the eighth day), Navami (the ninth day), Chaturdasi (the fourteenth day), and especially Ekadasi (the eleventh day).

"'"The merit one attains by fasting on Ekadasi is greater than that achieved by observing any other kind of fast or by going to a place of pilgrimage, and even greater than that achieved by giving charity to brahmanas. I tell you most emphatically that this is true."

"'Having thus given the maiden His benediction, the Supreme Lord suddenly disappeared. From that time onward the Ekadasi day became most meritorious and famous all over the universe. O Arjuna, if a person strictly observes Ekadasi, I kill all his enemies and grant him the highest destination. Indeed, if a person observes this great Ekadasi fast in any of the prescribed way, I remove all obstacles to his spiritual progress and grant him the perfection of life.

"'Thus, O son of Prtha, I have described to you the origin of Ekadasi. This one day removes all sins eternally. Indeed, it is the most meritorious day for destroying all kinds of sins, and it has appeared in order to benefit everyone in the universe by bestowing all varieties of perfection.

This was excerpted from Utpanna Ekadasi [from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana] as found in the celebrated book, "Ekadasi: The Day of Lord Hari" 1986. pages 13 - 22. HH Krishna Balaram Swami. Bhaktivedanta Institute Press.

2] The path of “Nirvana” [without quality] is the tradition & the elementary vedic metaphysical yogic goal of those on the journey of ‘meditators’ in quest of inner ‘peace’ etc.

Ultimately, “Nirvana” equates to shedding the ego, thus shedding lust, and then shedding ‘re-birth’ –all due to the analytic vision of the world as:

‘matter & energy forming various elements and forms for only short bursts of time’.

But, the nature of the “Soul” is that it is not transient but eternal, and cannot be desolved –This is explained by God himself in the Gita.

Having said this, it is the status-quo opinion of orthodox vedic adherents that ‘service’ to A PERSON is the ultimate & ‘constitutional’ original position & purpose of the souls existence.

Having said this, it is also the status-quo opinion that the goal of Nirvana is a subtle ‘self-hating’ and a denial of ‘the individual self’. Faced with the un-chartable destiny of each re-birth’s desirable & undesirable outcomes – Nirvana provides an outlet for a gentleman to take refuge.

But, tradition since time immemorial is that there are demigods and there is an “Almighty Singular Godhead-fountainhead–of-personal traits/experience/purpose/sensibilities/personality” ergo, the Goal of life is to “investigate” where are we, and, what are we, and where are we going.

Well, one may ask, “That’s not a new revelation.”

But, now the Bhagavad-gita is finally known outside of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> –after so many many lifetimes later . . . it is indeed a “new revelation” among the same old souls.

3] The Gods of the Vedas are the descendants of the first born person, Brahma. Brahma is the first progenitor and engineer and assembler of the cosmos –Lord Brahma is the overseeing superintendent of the cosmos in the form of a person, literally.

Brahma populated the universe via his grandchildrens’ grandchildrens ad infinitum to this day.

The personalities that populate the Vedic scriptures come from an antiquity pre-dating western lore and hieroglyphics.

[melvin 1]

 

1] Regarding, “God as Mother” –I have been exploring this very topic without other poster’s inputting their thoughts upon this topic, yet.

Yet now, you, iamwhatisayiam have brought it up here.

Below is a story that can be dated –but “what is that date?”

It may be observed that ‘time-line’ clues are sprinkled through-out this puranic tale –but I digress, herein is the story of the birth of maha-sakti [who undoubtly herein is ‘literally’ known and shown as the internal potency of Visnu].

{My super-esoteric contemplation/speculation is, that before Godhead first acted, in any capacity or to any degree HE was dormant and unmanifested and at peace and self-contained with all potentiality, innately asleep ---but then HIS ‘internal-creative-feminine’ opulence/potencies stirred HIM to arise and Create and then to sport etc etc etc --- that’s as far as my speculation goes}

 

Anyway, the greatest Srimati Maha-Laxshmi Mata Adi-devi-ji uniquely [by default] obtains thee broadchest of MahaVishnu herself exclusively--and that seems just and right and nectarian. It is nectarian to me because I am aware of the sentiments of the servants of the servants of the childhood pastimes down on the dairy farm of vraja dhama that is revealed as the KINGDOM OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.

 

God, by definition, is the first person.

God, by definition, possesses all "Six Opulences" in-full, par-excellance.

"Six Opulences" are: All beauty, all strength, all wealth, all intelligence, all fame, & lastly all renunciation.

 

Mind you, God IS TRANSCENDENTAL TO THE COSMOS --the same cosmos that the demigod Lord Brahma and all of us live in. The realm of heaven is out side the cosmos and that realm of heaven is alit by the light that begins in God's own bodily effulgence and is also the same rays of light that conversely form the 'space/void/field' where the material elements evolve herein Brahma's ''brahmanda" [egg-shaped enclosure of our cosmos] --our cosmos float in the space that is the very thing called BRAHMAN.

 

The phantasmagoria of the cosmic flux of elements and forms and places and people and names and things and times and seasons and the good and the bad and the rule of duality is: temporary and relative.

 

Whereas, Brahman is absolute.

 

Whereas, the soul is transcendental.

 

Yoga [linking-up] is about the souls "orienting" oneself to restablish 'eternal duty' [sanatana-dharma]

 

Excerpted from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana:

 

 

 

. . . "It is I.I am Your great maha-sakti,

 

 

 

 

Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. . . .”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or

 

 

 

 

How the first Ekadasi Fast day, “Utpanna Ekadasi” was born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lord Sri Krishna:

“I will tell you why Ekadasi is the most purifying of all days.

In the Satya-Yuga there once lived an amazingly fearsome demon called Mura.

Always very angry, he terrified all the demigods, defeating even Indra, the king of heaven; Vivasvan, the sun-god; the eight Vasus; Lord Brahma; Vayu. the wind-god; and Agni, the fire-god. With his terrible power he brought them all under his control.

"'Lord Indra then approached Lord Shiva and said, "We have all fallen from our planets and are now wandering helplessly on the earth. O lord, how can we find relief from this affliction? What will be the fate of us demigods?'

"'Lord Shiva replied, "O best of the demigods, go to that place where Lord Vishnu, the rider of Garuda, resides. He is Jagannatha, the master of all the universes and their shelter as well. He is devoted to protecting all souls surrendered to Him.'"

"Lord Krishna continued, 'O Arjuna, winner of wealth, after Lord Indra heard these words of Lord Shiva's, he proceeded with all the demigods to the place where Lord Jagannatha, the Lord of the universe, the protector of all souls, was resting.

Seeing the Lord sleeping upon the water, the demigods joined their palms and, led by Indra, recite the following prayers:

"'"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, all obeisances to You. O Lord of lords, O You who are praised by the foremost demigods, O enemy of all demons, O lotus-eyed Lord, O Madhusudana (killer of the Madhu demon), please protect us. Afraid of the demon Mura, we demigods have come to take shelter of You. O Jagannatha, You are the doer of everything and the creator of everything. You are the mother and the father of all universes. You are the creator, the maintainer, and the destroyer of all. You are the supreme helper of all the demigods, and You alone can bring peace to them. You alone are the earth, the sky, and the universal benefactor.

"'"You are Shiva, Brahma, and also Vishnu, the maintainer of the three worlds. You are the gods of the sun, moon, and fire. You are the clarified butter, the oblation, the sacred fire, the mantras, the rituals, the priests, and the silent chanting of japa. You are the sacrifice itself, its sponsor, and the enjoyer of its results, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nothing within these three worlds, whether moveable or immovable, can exist independent of You.

O Supreme Lord, Lord of lords, You are the protector of those who take shelter of You. O supreme mystic, O shelter of the fearful, please rescue and protect us. We demigods have been defeated by the demons and have thus fallen from the heavenly realm. Deprived of our positions, O Lord of the universe, we are now wandering about this earthly planet."'

"Lord Krsna continued, 'Having heard Indra and the other demigods speak these words, Sri Vishnu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, replied, "What demon possesses such great powers of delusion that he has been able to defeat all the demigods? What is his name, and where does he live? Where does he get his strength and shelter? Tell Me everything, O Indra, and do not fear."

"'Lord Indra replied, "O Supreme Godhead, O Lord of lords, O You who vanquish the fear in Your pure devotees' hearts, O You who are so kind to your faithful servants, there was once a powerful demon of the Brahma dynasty whose name was Nadijangha. he was extraordinarily fearsome and wholly dedicated to destroying the demigods, and he begot an infamous son named Mura.

"'"Mura's great capital city is Chandravati. From that base the terribly evil and powerful Mura demon has conquered the whole world and brought all the demigods under his control, driving them out of their heavenly kingdom. He has assumed the roles of Indra, the king of heaven; Agni, the fire-god; Yama, the lord of death; Vayu, the wind-god; Isha, or Lord Shiva; Soma, the moon-god; Nairrti, the lord of the directions; and Pasi, or Varuna, the water-god. He has also begun emanating light in the role of the sun-god and has turned himself into the clouds as well. It is impossible for the demigods to defeat him. O Lord Vishnu, please kill tis demon and make the demigods victorious."

"'Hearing these words from Indra, Lord Janardana became very angry and said, "O powerful demigods, all together you may now advance on Mura's capital city of Chandravati." Encouraged thus, the assembled demigods proceeded to Chandravati with Lord Hari leading the way.

"'When Mura saw the demigods, that foremost of demons started roaring very loudly in the company of countless thousands of other demons, who were all holding brilliantly shining weapons. The mighty-armed demons struck the demigods, who began abandoning the battlefield and fleeing in the ten directions.

Seeing the Supreme Lord Hrsikesha, the master of the senses, present on the battlefield, the furious demons rushed toward Him with various weapons in their hands. As they charged the Lord, who holds a sword, disk, and club, He immediately pierced all their limbs with His sharp, poisonous arrows. thus many hundred of demons died by the Lord's hand.

"'At last the chief demon, Mura, began fighting with the Lord. Mura used his mystic power to render useless whatever weapons the Supreme Lord Hrsikesa unleashed. Indeed, to the demon the weapons felt just like flowers striking him. When the Lord could not defeat the demon even with various kinds of weapons - whether those that are thrown or those that are held - He began fighting with His bare hands, which were as strong as iron-studded clubs.

The Lord wrestled with Mura for one thousand celestial years and then, apparently fatigued, left for Badarikashrama. There Lord Yogeshvara, the greatest of all yogis, the Lord of the universe, entered a very beautiful cave named Himavati to rest.

O Dhananjaya, winner of wealth, that cave was ninety-six miles in diameter and had only one entrance. I went there out of fear, and also to sleep. There is no doubt about this, O son of Pandu, for the great fight made me very tired. the demon followed Me into that cave and, seeing Me asleep, started thinking within his heart, "Today I will kill this slayer of all demons, Hari."

"'While the wicked-minded Mura was making plans in this way, from My body there manifested a young girl who had a very bright complexion. O son of Pandu, Mura saw that she was equipped with various brilliant weapons and was ready to fight.

Challenged by that female to do battle, Mura prepared himself and then fought with her, but he became very astonished when he saw that she fought him without cessation. The king of the demons then said, "Who has created this angry, fearsome girl who is fighting me so powerfully, just like a thunderbolt falling upon me?' After saying this, the demon continued to fight with the girl.

"'Suddenly that effulgent goddess shattered all of Mura's weapons and in a moment deprived him of his chariot. He ran toward her to attacker with his bare hands, but when she saw him coming she angrily cut off his head.

Thus the demon at once fell to the ground and went to the abode of Yamaraja. The rest of the Lord's enemies, out of fear and helplessness, entered the subterranean Patala region.

"'Then the Supreme Lord woke up and saw the dead demon before Him, as well as the maiden bowing down to him with joined palms. His face expressing His astonishment, the Lord of the universe said, "Who has killed this vicious demon? He easily defeated all the demigods, Gandharvas, and even Indra himself, along with Indra's companions, the Maruts, and he also defeated the Nagas (snakes), the rulers of the lower planets.

He even defeated Me, making Me hide in this cave out of fear. Who is it that has so mercifully protected Me after I ran from the battlefield and went to sleep in this cave?"

"'The maiden said, "It is I who have killed this demon after appearing from Your transcendental body. Indeed, O Lord Hari, when he saw You sleeping he wanted to kill You. Understanding the intention of this thorn in the side of the three worlds, I killed the evil rascal and this freed all the demigods from fear.

I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. I have killed this universally terrifying demon to protect the three worlds. Please tell me why You are surprised to see that this demon has been killed, O Lord."

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O sinless one, I am very satisfied to see that it is you who have killed this king of the demons. In this way you have made the demigods happy, prosperous, and full of bliss.

Because you have given pleasure to all the demigods in the three worlds, I am very pleased with you. Ask any boon you may desire, O auspicious one. I will give it to you without a doubt, though it be very rare among the demigods."

""The maiden said, "O Lord, if You are pleased with me and wish to give me a boon, then give me the power to deliver from the greatest sins that person who fasts of this day.

I wish that half the pious credit obtained by one who fasts will accrue to one who eats only in the evening (abstaining from grains and beans), and that half of this pious credit will be earned by one who eats only at midday.

Also, may one who strictly observes a complete fast on my appearance day, with controlled senses, go to the abode of Lord Vishnu for one billion kalpas after he has enjoyed all kinds of pleasures in this world.

This is the boon I desire to attain by Your mercy, my Lord, O Lord Janardana, whether a person observes complete fasting, eats only in the evening, or eats only at midday, please grant him a religious attitude, wealth, and at last liberation."

"'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O most auspicious lady, what you have requested is granted. All My devotees in this world will surely fast on your day, and thus they will become famous throughout the three worlds and finally come and stay with me in My abode. Because you, My transcendental potency, have appeared on the eleventh day of the waning moon, let your name by Ekadasi. If a person fasts on Ekadasi, I will burn up all his sins and bestow upon him My transcendental abode.

"'"These are the days of the waxing and waning moon that are most dear to Me: Tritiya (the third day), Ashthami (the eighth day), Navami (the ninth day), Chaturdasi (the fourteenth day), and especially Ekadasi (the eleventh day).

"'"The merit one attains by fasting on Ekadasi is greater than that achieved by observing any other kind of fast or by going to a place of pilgrimage, and even greater than that achieved by giving charity to brahmanas. I tell you most emphatically that this is true."

"'Having thus given the maiden His benediction, the Supreme Lord suddenly disappeared. From that time onward the Ekadasi day became most meritorious and famous all over the universe. O Arjuna, if a person strictly observes Ekadasi, I kill all his enemies and grant him the highest destination. Indeed, if a person observes this great Ekadasi fast in any of the prescribed way, I remove all obstacles to his spiritual progress and grant him the perfection of life.

"'Thus, O son of Prtha, I have described to you the origin of Ekadasi. This one day removes all sins eternally. Indeed, it is the most meritorious day for destroying all kinds of sins, and it has appeared in order to benefit everyone in the universe by bestowing all varieties of perfection.

This was excerpted from Utpanna Ekadasi [from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana] as found in the celebrated book, "Ekadasi: The Day of Lord Hari" 1986. pages 13 - 22. HH Krishna Balaram Swami. Bhaktivedanta Institute Press.

2] The path of “Nirvana” [without quality] is the tradition & the elementary vedic metaphysical yogic goal of those on the journey of ‘meditators’ in quest of inner ‘peace’ etc.

Ultimately, “Nirvana” equates to shedding the ego, thus shedding lust, and then shedding ‘re-birth’ –all due to the analytic vision of the world as:

‘matter & energy forming various elements and forms for only short bursts of time’.

But, the nature of the “Soul” is that it is not transient but eternal, and cannot be desolved –This is explained by God himself in the Gita.

Having said this, it is the status-quo opinion of orthodox vedic adherents that ‘service’ to A PERSON is the ultimate & ‘constitutional’ original position & purpose of the souls existence.

Having said this, it is also the status-quo opinion that the goal of Nirvana is a subtle ‘self-hating’ and a denial of ‘the individual self’. Faced with the un-chartable destiny of each re-birth’s desirable & undesirable outcomes – Nirvana provides an outlet for a gentleman to take refuge.

But, tradition since time immemorial is that there are demigods and there is an “Almighty Singular Godhead-fountainhead–of-personal traits/experience/purpose/sensibilities/personality” ergo, the Goal of life is to “investigate” where are we, and, what are we, and where are we going.

Well, one may ask, “That’s not a new revelation.”

But, now the Bhagavad-gita is finally known outside of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> –after so many many lifetimes later . . . it is indeed a “new revelation” among the same old souls.

3] The Gods of the Vedas are the descendants of the first born person, Brahma. Brahma is the first progenitor and engineer and assembler of the cosmos –Lord Brahma is the overseeing superintendent of the cosmos in the form of a person, literally.

Brahma populated the universe via his grandchildrens’ grandchildrens ad infinitum to this day.

The personalities that populate the Vedic scriptures come from an antiquity pre-dating western lore and hieroglyphics.

 

Tell that fairytale story to the children and they will love it.

------------------------------

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

Thanks man:eek3:

 

I have strong attraction for Sri Krsna but also Sri Devi it feels like im being ripped apart between them:crying2:

[bhaktajan 0]

Melvin, como staka brau? Your academic acumen portends the erudition of a true teacher.

 

Surely you must be a teacher.

 

Are you a teacher?

 

What do you teach?

 

There are so many youth on rampaging riots in Greece and Europa --they will surely benefit from your knowledge of how to pacify the mongers that steal their birth rights to happiness, liberty and freedom.

 

At least, we can gain solace in the study of the 'known sciences' which, as in the past, will demon-strate that real science will yield abundance for all ration-card carriers.

 

{Unless, Melvin, you where being sincere about your statement, Tell that fairytale story to the children and they will love it. In which case you don't have to worry about taking shelter; since you are in possession of your own faculties and surely can fortell your flash in the pan existance via pop-culture. Bonzai!}

 

I shall return,

Bhaktajan

[melvin 1]

 

Melvin, como staka brau? Your academic acumen portends the erudition of a true teacher.

 

Surely you must be a teacher.

 

Are you a teacher?

 

What do you teach?

 

There are so many youth on rampaging riots in Greece and Europa --they will surely benefit from your knowledge of how to pacify the mongers that steal their birth rights to happiness, liberty and freedom.

 

At least, we can gain solace in the study of the 'known sciences' which, as in the past, will demon-strate that real science will yield abundance for all ration-card carriers.

 

{Unless, Melvin, you where being sincere about your statement, Tell that fairytale story to the children and they will love it. In which case you don't have to worry about taking shelter; since you are in possession of your own faculties and surely can fortell your flash in the pan existance via pop-culture. Bonzai!}

 

I shall return,

Bhaktajan

 

Bhaktajan, children just love to daydream. In fact, they consider this so-called reality a fantasy. Take for example Christmas. To them the spirit of Christmas is a dream come true. But for most adults Christmas is a salary bonus, a 14th month pay.

----

[sambya 0]

 

why is there more importance on Bhagavan than Brahman?

some people say realizing brahman is like "spiritual suicide"

this calls for a extremely long answer. ill try to summarise it for convinience.

 

firstly hinduism is not a particular religion but numerous faiths and beliefs having some common grounds( such as belief in vedas etc) which was wrongly given the name hinduism by greeks and muslims. so hinduism contains numerous faiths and theories each differing from other.

 

the two main philosophies of hinduism are advaita(monist) and dvaita(dualist) . according to advaita there is nothing but a supreme concoiusness which is beyond mind thought and speech and given the name of brahman. all deities of hinduism are considered to be representations of the same brahman. realizing this supreme is the goal of human life.

 

on the other hand dualistic theory ( for example vaishanavas) believes that god has a definite form and that krishna or vishnu is the only true god , all others being his partial expansions. so they never put other dieities on the same level , making their pholosophy strongly sectarian , unlike advaita .

 

now in ancient hindu thought this concept of brahman dominated the philosophical thought. brahman was thought as the highest truth and hence all terms were derived from this word. for example :

braahman --one who is established in or realized brahman ,

brahmachaari-- one who roams in the realms of brahman ,

brahmotasav -- the festival of brahman

brahmananda -- the bliss attained on realizing brahman.

 

later , since the dawn of last millenium bhakti movements laying stress on krishna or vishnu beacme popular under scholars like ramanujachrya,madhvacharya,chaitanya etc .

 

the problem arose that brahman seemed to be present in all spheres of hinduism as the dominant thought . brahman couldnt be ignored .instead he was unified with krishna but in an extreme degenerate manner .

 

in these vaishnav texts brahman who was previously the highest truth was brought down to the level of being merely krishna's bodily effulegence. thus vaishnav doctrines began to state that brahman is the merely the starting point in realization and attaining goloka (where we continue to live as servants of krishna after moksh) is the highest realization.

 

that is why you find some individuals proclaiming bhagavan to be higher than brahman .

 

now in advaita it is said that after moksh or liberation you become merged in brahman. but that doesnt mean that your target would be to get merged in brahman. the real target is always self realization or brahmananda.

 

but dvaita doesnt support this . the aim of dvaita philosophers like vaishnavs is to attain prema bhakti which cannot be attained if they believe that they are going to merge in supreme. so they abhorr the idea of merging into brahman. vaishnavs think that advaitists want to become one with god( in reality thats not the case) and condemm advaitins vehemently.

 

advaita makes no distinction between any gods. the supreme out of his unlimited compassion appears in whichever form his son desires to see him in. so worshipping god as mother would not be an inferior form of sadhana.in fact shaktas precieve the same brahman as mother.

 

there is such a concept in hinduism as ishta or your own chosen diety. this depends on past life samskars surfacing as inherent instincts. forcefully changing ishta destroys spirituality. so if you find more acttraction towards devi dont change ways.

 

you should freely read about hinduism in order to get a better idea and also verify my words. after that you can decide on which institution to join , if at all . before that i would strongly suggest to stay clear of a few particular institutions , as they specialise in propagating sectarian and fundamentalist concepts and adept at brainwashing.

 

guidance and extensive reding is required to get a better understanding of such concepts in details.tyr to find a learned person ..........

 

you are free to clarify any doubts from me...........

 

good luck

[sambya 0]

 

I shall return,

Bhaktajan

 

yes !!!!!! to give us that disneyland feel once more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:)

[melvin 1]

 

yes !!!!!! to give us that disneyland feel once more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:)

 

Sambya, advaitists love to tan their skin under the heat of brahman`s effulgence. In the end they acquire skin cancer. Whereas, dvaitists use umbrellas(Krsna consciousness).

 

---

[sambya 0]

 

..................... Whereas, dvaitists use umbrellas(Krsna consciousness).

 

coz they are not pigmented enough with itelligence-melanin to percieve brahman(sun) directly. they view him through umbrellas of orthodoxy and sectarianism .

 

just joking.

 

melvin, i dont mean to suggest that advaita is superior to bhakti or the opposite. bhakti and advaita are not enemies as some like to believe.

 

im just against the blind sectarianism and orthodoxy of some vaishnavas.

bhaktajan happens to be at the bottom line of the list without any proper scriptural reference , valid reasoning , ridiculously long posts coupled with continous derogation and blasphemising of every other diety.

 

pranaam....

[melvin 1]

 

coz they are not pigmented enough with itelligence-melanin to percieve brahman(sun) directly. they view him through umbrellas of orthodoxy and sectarianism .

 

just joking.

 

melvin, i dont mean to suggest that advaita is superior to bhakti or the opposite. bhakti and advaita are not enemies as some like to believe.

 

im just against the blind sectarianism and orthodoxy of some vaishnavas.

bhaktajan happens to be at the bottom line of the list without any proper scriptural reference , valid reasoning , ridiculously long posts coupled with continous derogation and blasphemising of every other diety.

 

pranaam....

 

Sambya, I fully respect what you believe. If your comfortable with advaita then be one with Brahman rather than slam literally the plane your piloting into a building in New York, USA. But to those who loves Bhakti, I can`t blame them if they call themselves servant and associates of Bhagavan. The pure devotees of Bhagavan are fully dependent on His instructions whereas those who want to be one with Brahman need not.

 

-----

[sambya 0]

 

Sambya, I fully respect what you believe. If your comfortable with advaita then be one with Brahman rather than slam literally the plane your piloting into a building in New York, USA. But to those who loves Bhakti, I can`t blame them if they call themselves servant and associates of Bhagavan. The pure devotees of Bhagavan are fully dependent on His instructions whereas those who want to be one with Brahman need not.

 

go through all of my posts till date to find out my stand on advaita and bhakti and to find out where i said anything bad about bhakti marg.

 

im against sectarianism ( specially the iskconite version) to be specific, not chaitanya or bhakti ovbiously.....

[melvin 1]

 

 

 

go through all of my posts till date to find out my stand on advaita and bhakti and to find out where i said anything bad about bhakti marg.

 

im against sectarianism ( specially the iskconite version) to be specific, not chaitanya or bhakti ovbiously.....

 

Sambya, a self-realized soul is never against anything. He`s only against souls who know only hate not love.

 

-

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

Dear Sambya

 

thank you for explaining both views.

 

my diliema is this.. . ...I want to experience God as form this brings me attracion to Sri Krsna but im not sure if the Divine Mother can be experienced as Form ( can she?) , but than agian im not sure she may be form and formless in which case that would be a great revelation.

 

when i try to learn about Sri Krsna im bombarded with alot of sectarianism and this brings me alot of confusion.

 

Sri Devi seems so much closer and approachable.

[kaisersose 0]

 

when i try to learn about Sri Krsna im bombarded with alot of sectarianism and this brings me alot of confusion.

 

Sri Devi seems so much closer and approachable.

 

Then clearly, you are trying to learn about Krishna from the wrong sources. Try a different source.

 

You can find a lot of stories of people who saw/experienced the divine mother's form.

 

Cheers

[iamwhatisayiam 0]

Thanks

[sambya 0]

 

Dear Sambya

 

thank you for explaining both views.

 

my diliema is this.. . ...I want to experience God as form this brings me attracion to Sri Krsna but im not sure if the Divine Mother can be experienced as Form ( can she?) , but than agian im not sure she may be form and formless in which case that would be a great revelation.

 

when i try to learn about Sri Krsna im bombarded with alot of sectarianism and this brings me alot of confusion.

 

Sri Devi seems so much closer and approachable.

 

 

sadly most of the sayings of shri krishna are misinterpreted and deformed by modern vaishnavas . they also cling on the strong sectarian beliefs and orthodox ideas. try finding someone apart form this group and you shall see the beauty of krishna instantly .

 

yes its possible to see mother also .countless sages have seen her and played with her , specially in bengal , wihch continues to be the seat of shaktism.

 

you can read through ramakrishna kathamrita ( gospel of ramakrishna in english) for a clear understanding. im not saying this because im personally follower of ramakrishna .it has been considered as 100 most spiritual books of 20th century and sheds light on deepdst spiritual topics in simplest of terms . its opposed to sectarianism and ramakrishna speaks prolifically on both motherhood of god and krishna . it would be a really interesting read for follower of any sect.

[melvin 1]

 

sadly most of the sayings of shri krishna are misinterpreted and deformed by modern vaishnavas . they also cling on the strong sectarian beliefs and orthodox ideas. try finding someone apart form this group and you shall see the beauty of krishna instantly .

 

yes its possible to see mother also .countless sages have seen her and played with her , specially in bengal , wihch continues to be the seat of shaktism.

 

you can read through ramakrishna kathamrita ( gospel of ramakrishna in english) for a clear understanding. im not saying this because im personally follower of ramakrishna .it has been considered as 100 most spiritual books of 20th century and sheds light on deepdst spiritual topics in simplest of terms . its opposed to sectarianism and ramakrishna speaks prolifically on both motherhood of god and krishna . it would be a really interesting read for follower of any sect.

 

Sambya and iamwhatisayiam, please don`t drain your energies with this trying to counteract this sectarianism and orthodoxy thing version of Krsna consciousness preached by modern vaishnavas. People have different mentalities. Please concentrate on LOVE. Then you will be able to understand it all.

-----

[bhaktajan 0]

Sambhya: "im against iskcon" + "shri krishna misinterpreted and deformed by vaishnavas"

 

melvin: "be one with Brahman rather than slam literally the plane your piloting into a building in New York, USA." + "counteract orthodoxy of Krsna consciousness preached by vaishnavas."

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

iamwhatisayiam, beware of directions given by town cryers who have never been around the block past their village barn --they are so desperate for attention, while simultaneously, spreading graffitti --and proferring horrendous metaphors that elict bile.

 

iamwhatisayiam, considered yourself cautioned herein by me. Beware the Bogus-Yogis aka bogie-yogi.

 

Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors:

‘Sambhya & Melvin, I think you are both being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’

[melvin 1]

 

Sambhya: "im against ... iskcon" + "shri krishna misinterpreted and deformed by vaishnavas"

 

melvin: "be one with Brahman rather than slam literally the plane your piloting into a building in New York, USA."

 

 

iamwhatisayiam, beware of directions given by town cryers who have never been around the block past their village barn --they are so desperate for attention, while simultaneously, spreading graffitti --and proferring horrendous metaphors that elict bile.

 

iamwhatisayiam, considered yourself cautioned herein by me. Beware the Bogus-Yogis aka bogie-yogi.

 

Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors:

‘Sambhya & Melvin, I think you are both being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’

 

 

Bhaktajan, it`s Christmas season. Love should prevail in your heart rather than name calling.

 

---