Freedom of thought on the Spiritual Path

[SPChela 0]

What is freedom and who is really free? After reading the thread Prabhupada's Way or the Highway I was rather bewildered by the multitude of paths that the responses followed. I thought the original letter was very clear and easy to understand yet by the end of the threads it became so far off the beaten path that it was rather hilarious.

 

 

Are these the symptoms of a free mind? This is exactly why we need to follow. The reason why we are in this material world is due to wanting to enjoy separately from Krsna. Now here we are in these material bodies and most of us are still wanting to have it our own way. We still want to be in control.

 

 

The other day I was playing a computer game that my son had on his computer and I quickly realized that I needed his help. I also found that I was limited as to what options I had, to change the games settings in urder to meet my own needs and desires other than what the original programmer had programmed into the game. My mind and intelligence, no matter how much I wanted to, was not able to make these changes. I soon realized that if I wanted to win the game I had to follow the programmers instructions and of course my sons.

 

 

This is the same for everything else in life. We have to follow rules and regulations of some external entity. Of course we can choose not to and choose instead to follow our own minds, but as soon as we transgress the laws of another living entity we are held accountable. So we are not really free in a material sense.

 

 

Nor are we free in a spiritual sense. We have to someday follow someone who knows the truth, someone who has won...

 

 

Freedom is not a case of modernist or traditionalist points of view, it is the simple truth that is above our material considerations and sensibilities.

 

 

Freedom does not mean change. It means choice. We either choose to follow a Spiritual leader such as Srila Prabhupada or we follow our own mind. It is not a matter of 'mix and match' instructions and laws to suit our needs, desires or believed right. That is why we are in these bodies in the first place.

 

 

In the case of me playing the computer game... After I followed the instructions of my son I won the game. Of course I could have taken more time and done it my self, but, every step I made would had to have been a step that was programmed by the programmer, in order to win, so there was no way I could get out of that! Following my sons advice and guidance only made it easier and quicker.

 

 

 

The choice was mine and I made it freely, for I wanted to win the game. Why fight it? Why struggle and get frustrated with the game?

 

 

In the game of life we can't log onto the Internet and dl some 'cheats' either. If we are serious about our spiritual life and wanting an end to our material existence and be with Krsna, then we must surrender our hearts, mind and soul to the pure devotee. There is no other way. If I was to say that there was a way where we could change things to meet our needs as well, I would only be cheating you.

 

 

But really the choice is ours how fast or slow we want to get back to Godhead.

 

 

So I, with all my weaknesses and faults and with my heart and soul - freely choose Srila Prabhupada's way.

[suchandra 1]

 

So I, with all my weaknesses and faults and with my heart and soul - freely choose Srila Prabhupada's way.

Thanks SPChela, good choice! As it says in Adi-lila 7.31-32 purport, "Here is an important point. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to invent a way to capture the Māyāvādīs and others who did not take interest in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is the symptom of an ācārya. An ācārya who comes for the service of the Lord cannot be expected to conform to a stereotype, for he must find the ways and means by which Kṛṣṇa consciousness may be spread."

 

"Cannot be expected to conform to a stereotype for he must find the ways and means by which Kṛṣṇa consciousness may be spread."

Could be that here is the challenge, people having a hard time to accept the preaching method of a specific acarya. Prabhupada is somewhat accused of having chosen the method of sacrificing rank&file devotees by installing neophyte leaders. However, if his aggressive strategy bears fruit in the long run and the Sankirtan movement will be established globaly we still have to wait and see.

[realist 0]

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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by SPChela

So I, with all my weaknesses and faults and with my heart and soul - freely choose Srila Prabhupada's way.

 

 

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Below is an interesting story of how one finds Guru, or should I say, how Guru finds us

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>You couldn’t get a place further away from the rest of the world than down under Melbourne Australia. There is a story of one young 17 year old boy who never went looking for Prabhupada, Prabhupada came all the way down there to Melbourne and found him.

 

We ALL need the personal 'embodied touch of a Guru' as well, simply for the purpose of helping us with their personal association and instructions.

Krsna is in the heart that we must NEVER forget.

 

God’s representative will come to us in the embodied form if we want, if we pray unconditionally, if we learn to have faith in Krsna in the heart. We do not have to look for Guru, he wiil find us.

 

Why not? Krsna is standing always right in front of us. He is in our hearts and can send us an 'emdodied' Guru to help us understand Prabhupada's Books?”

 

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[bija 0]

 

But really the choice is ours how fast or slow we want to get back to Godhead.

 

So I, with all my weaknesses and faults and with my heart and soul - freely choose Srila Prabhupada's way. posted by spchela

Thx for your post spchela, it puts a nice perspective. Each of us has our unique encounter with Srila Prabhupada, just as each person is an individual.

 

What I find pleasant about the forum is to see how each person's lives has been touched in various ways by Srila Prabhupada.

 

How I way up if I am following Srila Prabhupada's way is this: If I am offering obiesances and gratitue to Gurudeva in my heart, if I am taking time to read, and comtemplate what I read each day, and most importantly picking up my jaap mala each day. I find reading thoughtfully compliments daily jaap. This is how I realize if I am closer to the way.

 

For me the way is not adherence to a stereotype or stereotype format, just simply how my sadhana and humility is being cultivated. When my practice slips I realize its time to get 'on the way' again. To be perfect in the way may take me lifetimes - please forgive the hilarious aspect of my journey;).

[bija 0]

 

However, if his aggressive strategy bears fruit in the long run and the Sankirtan movement will be established globaly we still have to wait and see. posted by suchandra

 

Thx suchandra, important point. This is glorification of the acarya who does not have to conform to a stereotype.

[cbrahma 0]

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>BY: HDG SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKUR <CENTER>

HDG Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur </CENTER>

 

 

Jun 14, CANADA (SUN) — "The Bhagavata teaches us that God gives us truth as He gave it to Vyasa: when we earnestly seek for it.

 

Truth is eternal and unexhausted. The soul receives a revelation when anxious for it. The souls of the great thinkers of the bygone ages, who now live spiritually, often approach our inquiring spirit and assist in its development. Thus Vyasa was assisted by Narada and Brahma.

 

Our Shastras, or in other words, books of thought, do not contain all that we could get from the infinite Father.

No book is without its errors.

 

God's revelation is absolute truth, but it is scarcely received and preserved in its natural purity. We have been advised in the 14th Chapter of 11th Skandha of the Bhagavata to believe that truth when revealed is absolute, but it gets the tincture of the nature of the receiver in course of time and is converted into error by continual exchange of hands from age to age. New revelations, therefore, are continually necessary in order to keep truth in its original purity. We are thus warned to be careful in our studies of old authors, however wise they are reputed to be.

 

Here we have full liberty to reject the wrong idea, which is not sanctioned by the peace of conscience. Vyasa was not satisfied with what he collected in the Vedas, arranged in the Puranas and composed in the Mahabharata. The peace of his conscience did not sanction his labors. It told him from within, "No, Vyasa! You cannot rest contented with the erroneous picture of truth which was necessarily presented to you by the sages of bygone days. You must yourself knock at the door of the inexhaustible store of truth from which the former ages drew their wealth. Go, go up to the fountainhead of truth, where no pilgrim meets with disappointment of any kind." Vyasa did it and obtained what he wanted. We have been all advised to do so.

Liberty then is the principle which we must consider as the most valuable gift of God. We must not allow ourselves to be led by those who lived and thought before us. We must think for ourselves and try to get further truths which are still undiscovered. In the Bhagavata we have been advised to take the spirit of the Shastras and not the words. The Bhagavata is therefore a religion of liberty, unmixed truth and absolute love."

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[Bishadi 0]

 

by the end of the threads it became so far off the beaten path that it was rather hilarious.

Are these the symptoms of a free mind? This is exactly why we need to follow. The reason why we are in this material world is due to wanting to enjoy separately from Krsna

Like nature, there is no separation. But you seek an ‘isolated’ entity to teach and mankind is the only ‘thing’ that can think it is an other from existence (God). We live within existence and the words we discuss within were all ‘created’ by mankind; hence to follow the words often isolate from reality. Meaning before the ‘reality’ of each experience is understood, where it (the experience) can be shared into words an evolution of words (comprehensionable terms or sutra could be coined) had to progess in time.

 

Nor are we free in a spiritual sense. We have to someday follow someone who knows the truth, someone who has won...

If all of sentience (consciousness) have the experience of choice; then each has 'won'; experiencing choice (heaven)

 

Then to realize ‘all’ exists within the ONE universe (God), then each slice in time is of God.

 

Each may experience, describe and define leaving what they could in words transcending time. So to honor each or as many renditions as possible, by choice, we honor God as well with the awareness of what each rendition shares.

There is no separation and to establish reasoning that God is elsewhere or sitting on a thrown in another dimension is a self prescribed isolation from existence and the truth as revealed all around us.

 

Freedom does not mean change. It means choice. We either choose to follow a Spiritual leader such as Srila Prabhupada or we follow our own mind.

Follow the combination of Love and mind (consciousness and knowledge) and choose the Good as each interaction. You can learn a lesson of truth from a transient.

 

It is not a matter of 'mix and match' instructions and laws to suit our needs, desires or believed right.

You can mix and match of experiences throughout your life and often learn whilst in silence on a hill just experiencing yourself within existence.

 

That is why we are in these bodies in the first place.

to create life

go teach another what is good and seed the world; living forever in your contribution

[Dark Warrior 0]

Freedom is allowed. Hari, Lord of the Universe, is compassionate. Although all religions do not lead to the same path, He doesn't get angry or upset with rajo or tamo gunis who lack jnana to understand Him. Rather, He, as the antaryamin, follows the jiva and guides Him through Samsara.

 

 

Vyasa was not satisfied with what he collected in the Vedas, arranged in the Puranas and composed in the Mahabharata....

 

Thakura is wrong here. If I have noticed something about BVT, He seems to be completely off-track on many issues. One can wonder if he was really focused on Krishna Bhakti, or was just another 'one-of-those-gurus'.

 

Vyasa initially wrote the Mahabharata to glorify Krishna, but he got sidetracked into elaborating the doings of princes in various dynasties. Vyasa felt that descriptions of Duryodhana's doings and rishis like Drona were unnecessary, and that only Kesava should have been the prime subject of the Mahabharata. Hence, to make amends, he composed the Bhagavata.

 

It is illogical to say Vyasa was not satisfied with what he collected from Shruti, because Shruti is apaurusheya. Vyasa simply compiled it and divided it for the benefit of the common man. Shruti is basically the only way one can establish legitimacy of Sri Hari's worship.

 

 

No book is without its errors.

 

The basic premise of Acharya Ramanuja and for that matter, Vaishnavas like Sri Adi Sankara and Sri Madhva, is that Shruti is completely free of defects and is apaurusheya. Mahabharata and Ramayana, along with Bhagavad Gita, Vishnu Sahasranama and the Sattvik Puranas are also affirmed to be free of defects, despite being Shruti. And not just Vaishnavas, some Nastika Matams also had regard for Veda in ancient India.

 

So, I don't know what in the blue blazes Bhaktivinoda was talking about here.

 

I think its best that we follow the age old teachings of Acharyas who have realised the scripture, rather than new age gurus like Bhaktivinoda Thakura who appear to have formulated their own opinions. Although I have high regard and respect for Srila Prabhupada, I certainly claim no affliation with Thakura's line.

 

In my humble opinion, having read some of the Chaitanya Upanishad, the portion of Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya where Thakura says Sri Chaitanya appeared in Acharya Ramanuja's dream and told him to keep it a 'secret', etc., I feel that Bhaktivinoda was not above fabricating scripture. Of Course, no offense to any of his followers, but all this is certainly disturbing for other sampradayas.

[cbrahma 0]

 

 

 

“Srimad-Bhagavatam – Canto One” by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami Prabhupada.

 

 

TEXT 27

TEXT

natiprasidad dhrdayah

sarasvatyas tate sucau

vitarkayan vivikta-stha

idam covaca dharma-vit

SYNONYMS

na--not; atiprasidat--very much satisfied; hrdayah--at heart;

sarasvatyah--of the River Sarasvati; tate--on the bank of; sucau--being

purified; vitarkayan--having considered; vivikta-sthah--situated in a

lonely place; idam ca--also this; uvaca--said; dharma-vit--one who knows

what religion is.

TRANSLATION

Thus the sage, being dissatisfied at heart, at once began to reflect,

because he knew the essence of religion, and he said within himself:

 

 

 

Thus the great sage Srila Vyasadeva, who is very kind to the ignorant mass, edited the Vedas so they might be assimilated by less intellectual men. Still he was not satisfied, even though he was engaged in working for the total welfare of all people. Thus Srila Vyasa, being dissatisfied in heart, began to reflect within himself. 'I have, under strict disciplinary vows, unpretentiously worshipped the Vedas, the spiritual master and the altar of sacrifice. I also abided by the rulings and have shown the import of disciplic succession through the explanation of the Mahabharata, by which even women, shudras and others (friends of the twice born) can see the path of religion. I am feeling incomplete, though myself I am fully equipped with everything required by the Vedas. This may be because I did not specifically point out the devotional service of the Lord, which is dear both to perfect beings and to the infallible Lord'."

 

 

 

From Sw. Chinmayananda

 

In compiling the vedic mantras, Vyasa edited them into four books, the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda, and the Atharva-Veda. However, the systematic thinker in Vyasa was not satisfied with merely classifying the entire wealth

of Vedic knowledge into four volumes; in each volume he also brought about the harmonious rhythm, both in the arrangement and classification of the contents. He divided each book roughly into 4 sections; Mantras(Chants or hymns), Brahmanas ( rituals and rules of conduct), Aranyakas ( methods of subjective worship) and Upanishads (philosophical revelations). The Upanishads are thus found in the last section of each Veda, and therefore the philosophy of the Upanishads has come to be called Vedanta, “the end of the Veda”.

 

 

When Vyasa had finished his entire exposition of Advaita Vedanta in the Brahmasutras, again he must have sat back and thought, “Now what I have done? First I wrote a book, an un-necessarily elaborate book, which might be useful perhaps for only half a dozen people in the country. Now the Brahmasutras are written, maybe for three dozen scholars in this country. How can I touch

the average man, the layman, the man behind the plough, the mason, the ordinary worker?” He, therefore, evolved a new literature called the Puranas.

 

[Dark Warrior 0]

First of all, Chinmayananda is useless. He follows Advaita, and even does not stick to it properly. He also does not accept that Reincarnation is a fact and has a massive inferiority complex.

 

It is true that Shruti is extremely difficult to understand. But that is the reason we have acharyas who have given us the correct meaning. Vyasa was not dissatisfied with what he received from Shruti. He was simply afraid that others wouldn't understand what he understood from Shruti.

 

Vedanta does not mean 'End of Veda'. There is no end to Veda, which is apaurusheya. It means 'Goal of Veda'.

 

The Brahma Sutras, Puranas, etc. are composed as an aid to understand Shruti. Ironically, Adi Sankara has a tougher time with the Brahma Sutras than with Upanishads, when it comes to proving Advaita!!

 

If you do not prove your point in Shruti, you won't be accepted as a Vaidika, no matter how many Puranas and Ithihasas you quote. The genius of our acharyas is their ability to prove that Smriti is concordant with Shruti.

 

No offense.

 

EDIT: To the challenge that only 2 dozen people know the Veda and 3 dozen know the Brahma Sutra, that was certainly the case, but only BEFORE the time of Vaishnava Acharyas. Sri Ramanuja's bhashya for me is sufficient to understand what the Sutras and Upanishads say about my relationship with the Lord, etc.

 

And the Veda is certainly in use. I perform vedic rituals like Sandhyavandanam daily. And Vedas are recited in every temple of Lord Vishnu, an age old practice.

 

DOUBLE EDIT:

 

am feeling incomplete, though myself I am fully equipped with everything required by the Vedas. This may be because I did not specifically point out the devotional service of the Lord, which is dear both to perfect beings and to the infallible Lord'."

 

There you go. Vyasa was not saying study of Veda is incomplete. He was unhappy that he had not helped others to understand it properly. However, Vaishnava Acharyas have filled that void with Hari Sarvottama.

 

Bhakti to Hari is the theme of the Upanishads. Each and every one of those injunctions, 'Meditate on Brahman' is nothing but Bhakti. Vyasa was upset because he had understood this, but had not pointed it out.

 

That being said, Srimad Bhagavatam will suffice to understand the pastimes of Lord Narayana, the eternal. It cannot be given authority over Shruti, and certainly, one should never say Shruti is useless or incomplete...that is a-vaidika.

[SPChela 0]

Evolution of words is an interesting subject. The words of any language convey meaning. The totality of words can be arranged in many different sequences in order to describe both subjective and objective reality.

 

 

One accepts or rejects a particular arrangement of words according to ones desires, sentiments, interests, inclinations and intelligence.

 

 

A follower of say Srila Prabhupada does not negate learning from both internal and external sources, rather they embrace learning from all sources of information.

 

 

However, they accept and reject information according to the principals that are laid down by Srila Prabhupada. They 'see' through the eyes of sastra as given by Srila Prabhupada. They accept Srila Prabhupada as their authority.

 

 

This is their individual choice. Others choose other arrangements of words from other authorities and still others accept the authority of their own mind and accept or reject according to their individual opinion.

 

 

There is no value judgment, just different paths that individuals choose to follow in their lives.

 

 

We are all seekers of the truth in one way or another, either absolute or relative.

[Bishadi 0]

 

Evolution of words is an interesting subject. The words of any language convey meaning. The totality of words can be arranged in many different sequences in order to describe both subjective and objective reality.

 

 

One accepts or rejects a particular arrangement of words according to ones desires, sentiments, interests, inclinations and intelligence.

 

 

A follower of say Srila Prabhupada does not negate learning from both internal and external sources, rather they embrace learning from all sources of information.

 

 

However, they accept and reject information according to the principals that are laid down by Srila Prabhupada. They 'see' through the eyes of sastra as given by Srila Prabhupada. They accept Srila Prabhupada as their authority.

 

 

This is their individual choice. Others choose other arrangements of words from other authorities and still others accept the authority of their own mind and accept or reject according to their individual opinion.

 

 

There is no value judgment, just different paths that individuals choose to follow in their lives.

 

 

We are all seekers of the truth in one way or another, either absolute or relative.

 

simply seeding the world

 

Peace

[suchandra 1]

 

simply seeding the world

 

Peace

forgot one item, and extracting the oil in Beverly Hills. In the Middle East you might have 300 barrels of oil per cubic acre, but in the Los Angeles Basin you might have 4,000 barrels per cubic acre,'' says Mike Edwards, vice president of Denver-based Venoco Inc

 

Oil in Beverly Hills `Humming' Where Britney Shops

By Michael Janofsky and Samantha Zee

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a5fyvudrWEoo&refer=news

 

June 27 (Bloomberg) -- Britney Spears, Jay Z, Adam Sandler and Plains Exploration and Production Co. have one thing in common. They've all been sighted at Beverly Center, an eight- level mall near Beverly Hills, where celebrities shop for clothes and the oil company pumps crude.

The rising price of oil, which hit a record $142.99 a barrel today, has sent exploration companies scurrying to squeeze additional supplies from the fields underlying Los Angeles and its celebrity-rich neighbor.

California, the fourth-biggest U.S. producer of crude, behind Louisiana, Texas and Alaska, has received 16 percent more notices from owners planning to rework old wells this year, while plans to drill new ones are up 23 percent from 12 months ago, according to state Department of Conservation data.

``In the Middle East you might have 300 barrels of oil per cubic acre, but in the Los Angeles Basin you might have 4,000 barrels per cubic acre,'' says Mike Edwards, vice president of Denver-based Venoco Inc., which has 24 active wells in the Beverly Hills area, including one alongside Beverly Hills High School. ``In terms of the land that produces oil, the basin is very rich.''

Beverly Center's kidney-bean shape was designed to accommodate drilling. It's one of two sites within blocks of Beverly Hills, a city of about 35,000 where Houston-based Plains, the fourth-biggest producer in California, is expanding. The 26-year-old mall houses 160 retailers, including Gucci, Louis Vuitton and Burberry. Pumping operations are hidden behind a wall between Macy's and Bloomingdale's.

`Weird Things'

``This is one of those weird things about Los Angeles,'' says Jeff Brown, the mall's general manager. ``There are oil wells all over the place. Drive down the street, you see hotel, beautiful house, oil well. Here, I don't know if shoppers know there's one or not. They probably don't.''

California has been producing oil commercially since 1874, most of it from Kern County in the San Joaquin Basin around Bakersfield, a city 110 miles (177 kilometers) northwest of Los Angeles.

The state pumped 243.2 million barrels from onshore and offshore sources last year, a 2.3 decline from 2006, according to the annual production report. Los Angeles County, the most populous in the U.S. with 9.9 million people, had 3,400 of California's 50,856 wells in operation last year.

Production decreased in recent years as reserves and exploration fell. The rate of decline is slowing because rising prices are now encouraging companies to drill new wells and return to old ones, said Hal Bopp, the state oil and gas supervisor.

`Stay Flat'

Production is forecast to ``to stay flat'' in 2008, he said. ``Like everywhere else in the world, there's a lot of increased activity here. As the price of oil rises, it's more economical to produce.''

California has 3 billion recoverable barrels, according to the conservation department. That's equivalent to 4 percent of North American proved oil reserves as measured by BP Plc's Statistical Review of World Energy 2008.

Almost 8 percent of the state's onshore output in 2007 came from the Los Angeles Basin, which Bopp described as the most- densely populated oil-producing region of the world.

About 30,000 wells have been drilled since oil production began in the Los Angeles basin more than 130 years ago, producing 8.6 billion barrels from active wells, according to the department.

The 1,200-acre Beverly Hills field is part of the basin, last year producing almost 1 million barrels from 97 wells, the department said. Wells pay royalties of about one-eighth of revenue to property owners including cities, local businesses and householders, Bopp said.

Cancer Suit

One production site has drawn a civil suit by 12 former students at Beverly Hills High who claim crude pumped from under athletic fields caused breast and thyroid cancers, Hodgkin's disease, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and testicular and skin cancers.

The five defendants include Chevron Corp., the state's leading producer, and Venoco, ranked 13th. Oil companies have been pumping at the school since 1959. Venoco, the site's current owner, produces about 400 barrels a day from 15 wells, Edwards said.

A lower court dismissed the case in 2006, citing a lack of evidence to link the illnesses to operations at the school. The plaintiffs appealed.

A ruling on whether the evidence is credible may come next year, said Kevin McHargue, a lawyer with Baron & Budd of Dallas who represents the plaintiffs. A decision in the former students' favor would allow a trial to begin, he said.

Hidden Crude

Like the oil derrick at the high school, now obscured by a 175-foot tower decorated with colorful tiles, other production sites in the Beverly Hills field are hidden from view.

Several miles from Beverly Center, at the foot of a street of million-dollar homes, a six-story, windowless structure houses a Plains well.

``It's not the most lovely thing you have ever seen,'' says Gene Cooper, a sculptor in who lives several houses away.

Noise from the well site increased this year as oil prices rose, he said. ``When it started humming 24 hours a day, the neighbors complained. There is a low hum always.''

The only hint of production at Los Angeles's Rancho Park municipal golf course is noise coming from a row of shrubs along the fourth fairway.

``The oil well here is out of the way, there are no homes nearby and they've made an effort to hide it,'' said Andy Dierken, a golfer in the midst of a game with three cigar- chomping friends. ``It doesn't smell, and from the green, you can't hear it.''

In addition, he said as the foursome drove off in their carts, ``we need the oil.''

The case is Lori Lynn Moss et al v. Venoco Inc. et al, BC297083, Los Angeles County Superior Court.

To contact the reporter on this story: Michael Janofsky in Los Angeles at mjanofsky@bloomberg.net; Samantha Zee in Los Angeles at szee@bloomberg.net.

Last Updated: June 27, 2008 14:46 EDT

[cbrahma 0]

Shouldn't we be weaning ourselves off of oil?

[Bishadi 0]

 

forgot one item, and extracting the oil in Beverly Hills. In the Middle East you might have 300 barrels of oil per cubic acre, but in the Los Angeles Basin you might have 4,000 barrels per cubic acre,'' says Mike Edwards, vice president of Denver-based Venoco Inc

 

seems you prefer things over the compassion of peoples minds....

 

 

Shouldn't we be weaning ourselves off of oil?

Hydrogen is has about 3 x the BTU of gasoline.

 

Electrolysis of water H2O, releases H. Solar panels could be doing this all day long.

 

The exhaust of burning H is water.

 

Convert an ICE internal combustion engine with stainless, pistons, sleeves, rings, values and exhaust; remove all the smog junk; use the natural gas intake and injectors and burn H in any automobile.

 

Venti/Chevron has been buying up the patents as well notice the reduction of natural gas pursuits.

 

so in reality; sending a guy like me to a country that is geared for the good of mankind rather than the business of capitalism (maybe India) could have a global impact to oil usage......

 

we don't need oil except to lube parts.

 

But with the information you have above if the collective was aware; that would be enough to bug a whole bunch of corp heads......

 

Me not publishing the material; me care for the people's minds... not the pocket book