What is moksha?

[Dr.Jogeshwar Mahanta 0]

A ccording to Madbhagavat Geeta moksha means merger with Brahman and no return. Then who are the gurus who teach moksha?

 

According to Patanjali Yoga sutra moksha is independence from time and space and attaining the pureest conscience.

 

 

Which moksha is peferable?

regards

[gHari 0]

The following is from the very advanced biography of the great 16th century scholar and saint, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is known as Gauranga, (Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Adi 1.90-93):

 

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ajJAna-tamera nAma kahiye ‘kaitava'

dharma-artha-kAma-mokSa-vAJchA Adi saba

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ajJAna-tamera--of the darkness of ignorance; nAma--name; kahiye--I call; kaitava--cheating process; dharma--religiosity; artha--economic development; kAma--sense gratification; mokSa--liberation; vAJchA--desire for; Adi--and so on; saba--all.

The darkness of ignorance is called kaitava, the way of cheating, which begins with religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation.

 

 

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dharmaH projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarANAM satAM

vedyaM vAstavam atra vastu ziva-daM tApa-trayonmUlanam

zrImad-bhAgavate mahA-muni-kRte kiM vA parair IzvaraH

sadyo hRdy avarudhyate 'tra kRtibhiH zuzrUSubhis tat-kSaNAt

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dharmaH--religiosity; projjhita--completely rejected; kaitavaH--in which fruitive intention; atra--herein; paramaH--the highest; nirmatsarANAm--of the one-hundred-percent pure in heart; satAm--devotees; vedyam--to be understood; vAstavam--factual; atra--herein; vastu--substance; ziva-dam--giving well-being; tApa-traya--of the threefold miseries; unmUlanam--causing uprooting; zrImat--beautiful; bhAgavate--in the BhAgavata PurANa; mahA-muni--by the great sage (VyAsadeva); kRte--compiled; kim--what; vA--indeed; paraiH--with others; IzvaraH--the Supreme Lord; sadyaH--at once; hRdi--within the heart; avarudhyate--becomes confined; atra--herein; kRtibhiH--by pious men; zuzrUSubhiH--desiring to hear; tat-kSaNAt--without delay.

"The great scripture SrImad-BhAgavatam, compiled by MahA-muni VyAsadeva from four original verses, describes the most elevated and kindhearted devotees and completely rejects the cheating ways of materially motivated religiosity. It propounds the highest principle of eternal religion, which can factually mitigate the threefold miseries of a living being and award the highest benediction of full prosperity and knowledge. Those willing to hear the message of this scripture in a submissive attitude of service can at once capture the Supreme Lord in their hearts. Therefore there is no need for any scripture other than SrImad-BhAgavatam."

PURPORT

 

This verse appears in

SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.1.2)

. The words mahA-muni-kRte indicate that SrImad-BhAgavatam was compiled by the great sage VyAsadeva, who is sometimes known as NArAyaNa MahA-muni because he is an incarnation of NArAyaNa. VyAsadeva, therefore, is not an ordinary man but is empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He compiled the beautiful BhAgavatam to narrate some of the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotees.

 

 

In SrImad-BhAgavatam, a distinction between real religion and pretentious religion has been clearly made. According to this original and genuine commentation on the VedAnta-sUtra, there are numerous pretentious faiths that pass as religion but neglect the real essence of religion. The real religion of a living being is his natural inborn quality, whereas pretentious religion is a form of nescience that artificially covers a living entity's pure consciousness under certain unfavorable conditions. Real religion lies dormant when artificial religion dominates from the mental plane. A living being can awaken this dormant religion by hearing with a pure heart.

 

 

The path of religion prescribed by SrImad-BhAgavatam is different from all forms of imperfect religiosity. Religion can be considered in the following three divisions: (1) the path of fruitive work, (2) the path of knowledge and mystic powers, and (3) the path of worship and devotional service.

 

 

The path of fruitive work (karma-kANDa), even when decorated by religious ceremonies meant to elevate one's material condition, is a cheating process because it can never enable one to gain relief from material existence and achieve the highest goal. A living entity perpetually struggles hard to rid himself of the pangs of material existence, but the path of fruitive work leads him to either temporary happiness or temporary distress in material existence. By pious fruitive work one is placed in a position where he can temporarily feel material happiness, whereas vicious activities lead him to a distressful position of material want and scarcity. However, even if one is put into the most perfect situation of material happiness, he cannot in that way become free from the pangs of birth, death, old age and disease. A materially happy person is therefore in need of the eternal relief that mundane religiosity in terms of fruitive work can never award.

 

 

The paths of the culture of knowledge (jJAna-mArga) and of mystic powers (yoga-mArga) are equally hazardous, for one does not know where one will go by following these uncertain methods. An empiric philosopher in search of spiritual knowledge may endeavor most laboriously for many, many births in mental speculation, but unless and until he reaches the stage of the purest quality of goodness--in other words, until he transcends the plane of material speculation--it is not possible for him to know that everything emanates from the Personality of Godhead VAsudeva. His attachment to the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord makes him unfit to rise to that transcendental stage of vasudeva understanding, and therefore because of his unclean state of mind he glides down again into material existence, even after having ascended to the highest stage of liberation. This falldown takes place due to his want of a locus standi in the service of the Supreme Lord.

 

 

As far as the mystic powers of the yogIs are concerned, they are also material entanglements on the path of spiritual realization. One German scholar who became a devotee of Godhead in India said that material science had already made laudable progress in duplicating the mystic powers of the yogIs. He therefore came to India not to learn the methods of the yogIs' mystic powers but to learn the path of transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord, as mentioned in the great scripture SrImad-BhAgavatam. Mystic powers can make a yogI materially powerful and thus give temporary relief from the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease, as other material sciences can also do, but such mystic powers can never be a permanent source of relief from these miseries. Therefore, according to the BhAgavata school, this path of religiosity is also a method of cheating its followers. In the Bhagavad-gItA it is clearly defined that the most elevated and powerful mystic yogI is one who can constantly think of the Supreme Lord within his heart and engage in the loving service of the Lord.

 

 

The path of worship of the innumerable devas, or administrative demigods, is still more hazardous and uncertain than the above-mentioned processes of karma-kANDa and jJAna-kANDa. This system of worshiping many gods, such as DurgA, Siva, GaNeza, SUrya and the impersonal ViSNu form, is accepted by persons who have been blinded by an intense desire for sense gratification. When properly executed in terms of the rites mentioned in the zAstras, which are now very difficult to perform in this age of want and scarcity, such worship can certainly fulfill one's desires for sense gratification, but the success obtained by such methods is certainly transient, and it is suitable only for a less intelligent person. That is the verdict of the Bhagavad-gItA. No sane man should be satisfied by such temporary benefits.

 

 

None of the above-mentioned three religious paths can deliver a person from the threefold miseries of material existence, namely, miseries caused by the body and mind, miseries caused by other living entities, and miseries caused by the demigods. The process of religion described in SrImad-BhAgavatam, however, is able to give its followers permanent relief from the threefold miseries. The BhAgavatam describes the highest religious form--reinstatement of the living entity in his original position of transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord, which is free from the infections of desires for sense gratification, fruitive work, and the culture of knowledge with the aim of merging into the Absolute to become one with the Supreme Lord.

 

 

Any process of religiosity based on sense gratification, gross or subtle, must be considered a pretentious religion because it is unable to give perpetual protection to its followers. The word projjhita is significant. Pra- means "complete," and ujjhita indicates rejection. Religiosity in the shape of fruitive work is directly a method of gross sense gratification, whereas the process of culturing spiritual knowledge with a view to becoming one with the Absolute is a method of subtle sense gratification. All such pretentious religiosity based on gross or subtle sense gratification is completely rejected in the process of bhAgavata-dharma, or the transcendental religion that is the eternal function of the living being.

 

 

BhAgavata-dharma, or the religious principle described in SrImad-BhAgavatam, of which the Bhagavad-gItA is a preliminary study, is meant for liberated persons of the highest order, who attribute very little value to the sense gratification of pretentious religiosity. The first and foremost concern of fruitive workers, elevationists, empiric philosophers and salvationists is to raise their material position. But devotees of Godhead have no such selfish desires. They serve the Supreme Lord only for His satisfaction. SrI Arjuna, wanting to satisfy his senses by becoming a so-called nonviolent and pious man, at first decided not to fight. But when he was fully situated in the principles of bhAgavata-dharma, culminating in complete surrender unto the will of the Supreme Lord, he changed his decision and agreed to fight for the satisfaction of the Lord. He then said:

 

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naSTo mohaH smRtir labdhA

 

tvat-prasAdAn mayAcyuta

 

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaH

 

kariSye vacanaM tava

 

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"My dear KRSNa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy. I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions." (

Bg. 18.73

) It is the constitutional position of the living entity to be situated in this pure consciousness. Any so-called religious process that interferes with this unadulterated spiritual position of the living being must therefore be considered a pretentious process of religiosity.

 

 

The real form of religion is spontaneous loving service to Godhead. This relationship of the living being with the Absolute Personality of Godhead in service is eternal. The Personality of Godhead is described as vastu, or the Substance, and the living entities are described as vAstavas, or the innumerable samples of the Substance in relative existence. The relationship of these substantive portions with the Supreme Substance can never be annihilated, for it is an eternal quality inherent in the living being.

 

 

By contact with material nature the living entities exhibit varied symptoms of the disease of material consciousness. To cure this material disease is the supreme object of human life. The process that treats this disease is called bhAgavata-dharma, or sanAtana-dharma--real religion. This is described in the pages of SrImad-BhAgavatam. Therefore anyone who, because of his background of pious activities in previous lives, is anxious to hear SrImad-BhAgavatam immediately realizes the presence of the Supreme Lord within his heart and fulfills the mission of his life.

 

 

 

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tAra madhye mokSa-vAJchA kaitava-pradhAna

yAhA haite kRSNa-bhakti haya antardhAna

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tAra--of them; madhye--in the midst; mokSa-vAJchA--the desire to merge into the Supreme; kaitava--of cheating processes; pradhAna--the chief; yAhA haite--from which; kRSNa-bhakti--devotion to Lord KRSNa; haya--becomes; antardhAna--disappearance.

The foremost process of cheating is to desire to achieve liberation by merging into the Supreme, for this causes the permanent disappearance of loving service to KRSNa.

PURPORT

 

The desire to merge into the impersonal Brahman is the subtlest type of atheism. As soon as such atheism, disguised in the dress of liberation, is encouraged, one becomes completely unable to traverse the path of devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

 

[Dr.Jogeshwar Mahanta 0]

Dear gHari,

Well, do the sages/enlightened persons not differ?

regards

[shiva 0]

 

A ccording to Madbhagavat Geeta moksha means merger with Brahman and no return. Then who are the gurus who teach moksha?

 

According to Patanjali Yoga sutra moksha is independence from time and space and attaining the pureest conscience.

 

 

Which moksha is peferable?

regards

 

 

Whenever the veda speak about the soul entering into Brahman what is being spoken about is union with God. This is the meaning of the word yoga, to yoke, to unite the soul with God. The word merge can be used only if it is understood in the sense of the merging of one soul with a higher reality, not in the sense of the soul or God losing individuality. If I merge my business with a large corporation I don't lose my individuality, rather I simply work with the leaders of the corporation.

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 9.4.67:

 

mat-sevaya pratitam te

salokyadi-catustayam

necchanti sevaya purnah

kuto 'nyat kala-viplutam

 

mat-sevaya--by being engaged fully in My transcendental loving service; pratitam--automatically achieved; te--such pure devotees are fully satisfied; salokya-adi-catustayam--the four different types of liberation (salokya, sarupya, samipya and sarsti, what to speak of sayujya); na--not; icchanti--desire; sevaya--simply by devotional service; purnah--fully complete; kutah--where is the question; anyat--other things; kala-viplutam--which are finished in the course of time.

 

My devotees, who are always satisfied to be engaged in My loving service, are not interested even in the four principles of liberation [salokya, sarupya, samipya and sarsti], although these are automatically achieved by their service. What then is to be said of such perishable happiness as elevation to the higher planetary systems?

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.28.35-36:

 

muktasrayam yarhi nirvisayam viraktam nirvanam rcchati manah sahasa yatharcih atmanam atra puruso 'vyavadhanam ekam anviksate pratinivrtta-guna-pravahah

 

mukta-asrayam--situated in liberation; yarhi--at which time; nirvisayam-- detached from sense objects; viraktam--indifferent; nirvanam--extinction; rcchati--obtains; manah--the mind; sahasa--immediately; yatha--like; arcih--the flame; atmanam--the mind; atra--at this time; purusah--a person; avyavadhanam--without separation; ekam--one; anviksate--experiences; pratinivrtta--freed; guna-pravahah--from the flow of material qualities.

 

When the mind is thus completely freed from all material contamination and detached from material objectives, it is just like the flame of a lamp. At that time the mind is actually dovetailed with that of the Supreme Lord and is experienced as one with Him because it is freed from the interactive flow of the material qualities.

 

 

so 'py etaya caramaya manaso nivrttya

tasmin mahimny avasitah sukha-duhkha-bahye

hetutvam apy asati kartari duhkhayor yat

svatman vidhatta upalabdha-paratma-kasthah

 

sah--the yogi; api--moreover; etaya--by this; caramaya--ultimate; manasah--of the mind; nivrttya--by cessation of material reaction; tasmin--in his; mahimni--ultimate glory; avasitah--situated; sukha-duhkha-bahye--outside of happiness and distress; hetutvam--the cause; api--indeed; asati--a product of ignorance; kartari--in the false ego; duhkhayoh--of pleasure and pain; yat--which; sva-atman--to his own self; vidhatte--he attributes; upalabdha--realized; para-atma--of the Personality of Godhead; kasthah--the highest truth.

 

Thus situated in the highest transcendental stage, the mind ceases from all material reaction and becomes situated in its own glory, transcendental to all material conceptions of happiness and distress. At that time the yogi realizes the truth of his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He discovers that pleasure and pain as well as their interactions, which he attributed to his own self, are actually due to the false ego, which is a product of ignorance.

 

As mentioned above there are different types of liberation:

 

Salokya Mukti (or Moksha): Living on the same planet as the Lord's

Sarsti Mukti: Gaining opulences similar to the Lord's

Samipya Mukti: Becoming a close associate of the Lord

Sarupya Mukti: Gaining bodily features similar to the Lord's

Sayujya Mukti: Merging into Brahman

 

The final liberation is described thusly in Srimad Bhagavatam 2.10.6:

 

 

nirodho 'syanusayanam

atmanah saha saktibhih

muktir hitvanyatha rupam

sva-rupena vyavasthitih

 

nirodhah -- the winding up of the cosmic manifestation; asya -- of His; anusayanam -- the lying down of the purusha incarnation Maha-Vishnu in mystic slumber; atmanah -- of the living entities; saha -- along with; saktibhih -- with the energies; muktih -- liberation; hitva -- giving up; anyatha -- otherwise; rupam -- form; sva-rupena -- in constitutional form; vyavasthitih -- permanent situation.

 

The merging of the living entity, along with his conditional living tendency, with the mystic lying down of the Maha-Vishnu is called the winding up of the cosmic manifestation. Liberation is the permanent situation of the form of the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material bodies.

 

The highest type of liberation is when the soul attains to his sva-rupena vyavasthitih, his permanent form, and lives with the Lord in that permanent form in Vaikuntha.

 

Katha Upanishad 1.3.9-11

 

 

3-9

vijñᾱnasᾱrathir yastu manaḥ pragrahavᾱn naraḥ, so’dhvanaḥ param ᾱpnoti tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam.

Yama: But he who has discerning intelligence as the driver and a well-controlled mind as the reins, reaches the end of his journey, that highest place of Vishnu.

 

3-10

indriyebhyaḥ parᾱ hy arthᾱ, arthebhyaś ca param manaḥ, manasaś ca parᾱ buddhir buddher ᾱtmᾱ mahᾱn paraḥ.

Yama: Beyond the senses are the rudiments of objects, beyond these rudiments is the mind, beyond the mind is the intellect, beyond the intellect is the great Self.

 

3-11

mahataḥ param avyaktam, avyaktᾱt puruṣaḥ paraḥ, puruṣᾱn na paraṁ kiñcit: sᾱ kᾱṣṭhᾱ, sᾱ parᾱ gatiḥ.

 

Yama: Beyond the great (Mahat) is the unmanifested (Avyakta). Beyond the Avyakta is the Purusha, beyond the Purusha there is nothing, that is the end, that is the highest goal.

 

 

"Mahat" in 3-11 refers to the Mahat Tattva, the material universe manifest before us. "Avyakta" refers to the unseen realm beyond the manifest world. Purusha refers to God, Vishnu. So the meaning is that the highest realm is the realm of Vishnu, and it is their where the journey of the soul ends.

[gHari 0]

 

Dear gHari,

Well, do the sages/enlightened persons not differ?

regards

Not on something so basic.

 

What will differ are our definitions of "'sage and enlightenment" depending on our own prejudices and preconceptions.

 

Some of us just don't have the time.

[Guruvani 0]

There is no pleasure for the Vaishnava to debate the Advaitin.

Agree to disagree and go seperate ways.

 

That's about it.