1 cow produces more greenhouse gas than SUV

[Guruvani 0]

Science is now saying that a cow produces more greenhouse gas everyday than does an SUV.

 

So, now science is blaming cows for global warming.

 

Sure, blame it on the cows.

It's not carbon based fuels that is the problem it is them darn cows.

[zjj 1]

Is there no low they will not sink to? Shocking.

 

Haribol!

 

Jai

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

I don't have a reference handy, but I believe one of the reasons cows these days are so flatulent is because of the unnatural diet they are fed in the process of factory farming.

 

Cows are ruminants and, as such, naturally eat a diet high in grasses.In factory farming, in order to more quickly fatten the cattle, grain (mostly corn) is fed to the cows.

 

It is because of this that the cows need to be fed a steady stream of anti-biotics to keep them from getting sick, which in turn leads to breeding of superbugs, etc.

 

 

Science is now saying that a cow produces more greenhouse gas everyday than does an SUV.

 

So, now science is blaming cows for global warming.

 

Sure, blame it on the cows.

It's not carbon based fuels that is the problem it is them darn cows.

[yogesh 0]

:idea:Them darn scientist if they are soo worried about toxic emmisions they should go and preach vegetarianisim in Texas in order to reduce the carbon dioxide emmission!!!!

[Guest guest]

Nowadays cows are raised worldwide primarily for their meat. Methane is made as a natural byproduct of their digestion. In the tropics, huge areas of forests are cleared for pastures, dramatically increasing populations of methane producing ants as a side effect. Loss of forests lowers carbon dioxide absorbtion as well. Methane is also far more "heat trapping" than carbon dioxide produced by automobiles.

 

Blame it all on human craving for cow flesh.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Well, reading this might give you a headache just as it gave me one, but:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10434849&dopt=Abstract

 

Here's the key sentence:

 

 

CH4 conversion rate ... was not significantly different between cattle fed on Angleton... and Rhodes... grass, but was higher ... than for cattle fed on the high-grain diet ...

Hmmmm...looks like I might have gotten it backwards. Grasses lead to more methane? Further reasearch required.

 

And more, if you want it:

 

 

Methane production and energy partition of cattle in the tropics.

 

Kurihara M, Magner T, Hunter RA, McCrabb GJ.

 

CSIRO Tropical Agriculture, Tropical Beef Centre, Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia.

 

The aim of this experiment was to determine CH4 production and energy partition for a range of diets fed to Bos indicus cattle. Six Brahman cattle were fed on three different diets in a replicated Latin square experiment over three periods. The diets were (1) long-chopped Angleton grass (Dicanthium aristatum) hay ad libitum (DM digestibility (DMD) 41 (SE 2)%; 4 g N/kg), (2) long-chopped Rhodes grass (Chloris gayana) hay ad libitum (DMD 60 (SE 1)%; 14 g N/kg) or (3) 2 kg long-chopped lucerne (Medicago sativa) hay/d plus a high-grain diet (ad libitum) (DMD 70 (SE 1)%; 31 g N/kg). CH4 production was measured using confinement-type respiration chambers. Metabolizable energy intake (MJ/d) of cattle fed on Angleton grass (18.4 (SE 2.0)) was lower (P < 0.01) than that for Rhodes grass (54.9 (SE 2.1)), which was lower (P <0.01) than that for the high-grain diet (76.7 (SE 5.8)). CH4 production (g/d) for cattle fed on Rhodes grass (257 (SE 14)) was higher (P < 0.01) than that for cattle fed on both the high-grain diet (160 (SE 24)) and Angleton grass (113 (SE 16)). CH4 conversion rate (MJ CH4 produced per 100 MJ gross energy intake) was not significantly different between cattle fed on Angleton (10.4 (SE 1.1)) and Rhodes (11.4 (SE 0.3)) grass, but was higher (P < 0.01) than for cattle fed on the high-grain diet (6.7 (SE 0.7)). CH4 production (g/kg live-weight gain) was associated (P < 0.001) with both live-weight gain and feed:gain ratio. We conclude that the relationships between CH4 production, energy utilization and live-weight change of cattle fed on tropical forages differ from those of cattle fed on diets based on temperate forages.

 

 

I don't have a reference handy, but I believe one of the reasons cows these days are so flatulent is because of the unnatural diet they are fed in the process of factory farming.

 

Cows are ruminants and, as such, naturally eat a diet high in grasses.In factory farming, in order to more quickly fatten the cattle, grain (mostly corn) is fed to the cows.

 

It is because of this that the cows need to be fed a steady stream of anti-biotics to keep them from getting sick, which in turn leads to breeding of superbugs, etc.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

Hmmmm...looks like I might have gotten it backwards. Grasses lead to more methane? Further reasearch required.

 

From John Robbins (usually an excellent source):

http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

 

Key quote:

 

The primary reason that concentrations of atmospheric methane are now triple what they were when they began rising a century ago is beef production. Cattle raised on pasture actually produce more methane than feedlot animals, on a per-cow basis.

 

So, I was wrong. Of course, if you read the whole article, there are certainly other issues surrounding grain-based diet for cows.

 

 

Feeding grain to cattle has got to be one of the dumbest ideas in the history of western civilization.

 

Cows, sheep, and other grazing animals are endowed with the ability to convert grasses, which those of us who possess only one stomach cannot digest, into food that we can digest. They can do this because they are ruminants, which is to say that they possess a rumen, a 45 or so gallon (in the case of cows) fermentation tank in which resident bacteria convert cellulose into protein and fats.

 

Traditionally, all beef was grass-fed beef, but in the United States today what is commercially available is almost all feedlot beef. The reason? It's faster, and so more profitable. Seventy-five years ago, steers were 4 or 5 years old at slaughter. Today, they are 14 or 16 months. You can't take a beef calf from a birth weight of 80 pounds to 1,200 pounds in a little more than a year on grass. It takes enormous quantities of corn, protein supplements, antibiotics and other drugs, including growth hormones.

 

Switching a cow from grass to grain is so disturbing to the animal's digestive system that it can kill the animal if not done gradually and if the animal is not continually fed antibiotics. These animals are designed to forage, but we make them eat grain, primarily corn, in order to make them as fat as possible as fast as possible.

 

Author and small-scale cattleman Michael Pollan wrote recently in the New York Times about what happens to cows when they are taken off of pastures and put into feedlots and fed grain:

 

"Perhaps the most serious thing that can go wrong with a ruminant on corn is feedlot bloat. The rumen is always producing copious amounts of gas, which is normally expelled by belching during rumination. But when the diet contains too much starch and too little roughage, rumination all but stops, and a layer of foamy slime that can trap gas forms in the rumen. The rumen inflates like a balloon, pressing against the animal's lungs. Unless action is promptly taken to relieve the pressure (usually by forcing a hose down the animal's esophagus), the cow suffocates.

 

 

A corn diet can also give a cow acidosis. Unlike that in our own highly acidic stomachs, the normal pH of a rumen is neutral. Corn makes it unnaturally acidic, however, causing a kind of bovine heartburn, which in some cases can kill the animal but usually just makes it sick. Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw at their bellies and eat dirt. The condition can lead to diarrhea, ulcers, bloat, liver disease and a general weakening of the immune system that leaves the animal vulnerable to everything from pneumonia to feedlot polio."

All this is not only unnatural and dangerous for the cows. It also has profound consequences for us. Feedlot beef as we know it today would be impossible if it weren't for the routine and continual feeding of antibiotics to these animals. This leads directly and inexorably to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. These are the new "superbugs" that are increasingly rendering our "miracle drugs" ineffective.

 

As well, it is the commercial meat industry's practice of keeping cattle in feedlots and feeding them grain that is responsible for the heightened prevalence of E. coli 0157:H7 bacteria. When cattle are grainfed, their intestinal tracts become far more acidic, which favors the growth of pathogenic E. coli bacteria, which in turn kills people who eat undercooked hamburger.

 

E. coli 0157:H7 has only recently appeared on the scene. First isolated in the 1980s, this pathogen is now found in the intestines of most U.S. feedlot cattle. The practice of feeding corn and other grains to cattle has created the perfect conditions for microbes to come into being that can harm and kill us. As Michael Pollan explains:

 

"Most of the microbes that reside in the gut of a cow and find their way into our food get killed off by the acids in our stomachs, since they originally adapted to live in a neutral-pH environment. But the digestive tract of the modern feedlot cow is closer in acidity to our own, and in this new, manmade environment acid-resistant strains of E. coli have developed that can survive our stomach acids - and go on to kill us. By acidifying a cow's gut with corn, we have broken down one of our food chain's barriers to infections."

Many of us think of "corn-fed" beef as nutritionally superior, but it isn't. A corn-fed cow does develop well-marbled flesh, but this is simply saturated fat that can't be trimmed off. Grass-fed meat, on the other hand, is lower both in overall fat and in artery-clogging saturated fat. A sirloin steak from a grain-fed feedlot steer has more than double the total fat of a similar cut from a grass-fed steer. In its less-than-infinite wisdom, however, the USDA continues to grade beef in a way that rewards marbling with intra-muscular fat.

 

Grass-fed beef not only is lower in overall fat and in saturated fat, but it has the added advantage of providing more omega-3 fats. These crucial healthy fats are most plentiful in flaxseeds and fish, and are also found in walnuts, soybeans and in meat from animals that have grazed on omega-3 rich grass. When cattle are taken off grass, though, and shipped to a feedlot to be fattened on grain, they immediately begin losing the omega-3s they have stored in their tissues. As a consequence, the meat from feedlot animals typically contains only 15- 50 percent as much omega-3s as that from grass-fed livestock.

 

This is certainly an advantage for grass-fed beef, but it comes with a cost. The higher omega-3 levels and other differences in fatty acid composition contributes to flavors and odors in grass-fed meat that most people find undesirable. Taste-panel participants have found the meat from grass-fed animals to be characterized by "off-flavors including ammonia, gamey, bitter, liverish, old, rotten and sour."

 

In addition to being higher in healthy omega-3s, meat from pastured cattle is also up to four times higher in vitamin E than meat from feedlot cattle, and much higher in conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a nutrient associated with lower cancer risk.

 

As well as these nutritional advantages, there are also decided environmental benefits to grass-fed beef. According to David Pimentel, a Cornell ecologist who specializes in agriculture and energy, the corn we feed our feedlot cattle accounts for a staggering amount of fossil fuel energy. Growing the corn used to feed livestock in this country takes vast quantities of chemical fertilizer, which in turn takes vast quantities of oil. Because of this dependence on petroleum, Pimentel says, a typical steer will in effect consume 284 gallons of oil in his lifetime. Comments Michael Pollan,

 

"We have succeeded in industrializing the beef calf, transforming what was once a solar-powered ruminant into the very last thing we need: another fossil-fuel machine."

In addition to consuming less energy, grass-fed beef has another environmental advantage - it is far less polluting. The animals' wastes drop onto the land, becoming nutrients for the next cycle of crops. In feedlots and other forms of factory farming, however, the animals' wastes build up in enormous quantities, becoming a staggering source of water and air pollution.

 

From a humanitarian perspective, there is yet another advantage to pastured animal products. The animals themselves are not forced to live in confinement. The cruelties of modern factory farming are so severe that you don't have to be a vegetarian or an animal rights activist to find the conditions to be intolerable, and a violation of the human-animal bond. Pastured livestock are not forced to endure the miseries of factory farming. They are not cooped up in cages barely larger than their own bodies, or packed together like sardines for months on end standing knee deep in their own manure.

 

It's important to remember that grass-fed is not the same as organic. Natural food stores often sell organic beef and dairy products that are hormone- and antibiotic- free. While these products come from animals who most likely were fed less grain than the industry norm, they typically still spent their last months (or in the case of dairy cows virtually their whole lives) in feedlots where they were fed grain. Even when the grain is raised organically, feeding large amounts of grain to a ruminant animal compromises the nutritional value of the resulting meat or dairy products and exacts an added toll on the environment.

 

Just as organic does not mean grass-fed, grass-fed does not mean organic. Pastured animals sometimes graze on land that has been treated with synthetic fertilizers and even doused with herbicides. Unless the meat label specifically says it is both grass-fed and organic, it isn't.

 

Grass-fed beef is typically more expensive, but I'm not at all sure that's a bad thing. We shouldn't be eating nearly as much meat as we do. While there are surely many advantages to grass-fed beef over feedlot beef, this is still not a food that I, for one, am able to recommend.

 

It takes a long time and a lot of grassland to raise a grass-fed steer. Western rangelands are vast, but not nearly vast enough to sustain America's 100 million head of cattle. There is no way that grass-fed beef can begin to feed the meat appetites of people in the United States, much less play a role in addressing world hunger. Grass-fed meat production might be viable in a country like New Zealand with its geographic isolation, unique climate and topography, and exceedingly small human population. But in the world as it is today, I am afraid that grass-fed beef is a food that only the wealthy elites will be able to consume in any significant quantities.

 

We do not yet have studies that tell us what percentage of the health problems associated with eating beef would be reduced or eliminated by the eating of grass-fed beef. I'm sure grass-fed beef is much healthier than feedlot beef, both for the environment and for the consumer. But doing well in such a comparison hardly constitutes a ringing endorsement. While grass-fed beef and other pastured animal products have many advantages over factory farm and feedlot products, it's important to remember that factory farm and feedlot products are an unmitigated disaster. Almost anything would be better.

 

I am reminded of a brochure the Cattlemen's Association used to distribute to schools. The pamphlet compared the nutritional realities of a hamburger to another common food, and made much of the fact that the hamburger was superior in that it had more of every single nutrient listed than did its competitor. And what's more, the competitor had far more sugar. The comparison made it sound like a hamburger was truly a health food.

 

The competition, however, was not the stiffest imaginable. It was a 12-ounce can of Coke.

 

Comparing grass-fed beef to feedlot beef is a little like that. It's far healthier, more humane, and more environmentally sustainable. It's indeed better. If you are going to eat meat, dairy products or eggs, then that's the best way to do it.

 

But I wouldn't get too carried away and think that as long as it's grass-fed then it's fine and dandy. Grass-fed products are still high in saturated fat (though not as high), still high in cholesterol, and are still devoid of fiber and many other essential nutrients. They take less toll on the environment, but the land on which the animals graze still must often be irrigated, thus using up dwindling water resources, and it may be fertilized with petroleum-based fertilizers.

 

And there are other environmental costs. Next to carbon dioxide, the most destabilizing gas to the planet's climate is methane. Methane is actually 24 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and its concentration in the atmosphere is rising even faster. The primary reason that concentrations of atmospheric methane are now triple what they were when they began rising a century ago is beef production. Cattle raised on pasture actually produce more methane than feedlot animals, on a per-cow basis.

 

Plus there is the tremendous toll grazing cattle takes on the land itself. Even with U.S. beef cattle today spending the last half of their lives in feedlots, seventy percent of the land area of the American West is currently used for grazing livestock. More than two-thirds of the entire land area of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Idaho is used for rangeland. Just about the only land that isn't grazed is in places that for one reason or another can't be used by livestock-inaccessible areas, dense forests and brushlands, the driest deserts, sand dunes, extremely rocky areas, cliffs and mountaintops, cities and towns, roads and parking lots, airports, and golf courses. In the American West, virtually every place that can be grazed, is grazed. The results aren't pretty. As one environmental author put it, "Cattle grazing in the West has polluted more water, eroded more topsoil, killed more fish, displaced more wildlife, and destroyed more vegetation than any other land use."

 

Western rangelands have been devastated under the impact of the current system, in which cattle typically spend only six months or so on the range, and the rest of their lives in feedlots. To bring cows to market weight on rangeland alone would require each animal to spend not six months foraging, but several years, greatly multiplying the damage to western ecosystems.

 

The USDA's Animal Damage Control (ADC) program was established in 1931 for a single purpose-to eradicate, suppress, and control wildlife considered to be detrimental to the western livestock industry. The program has not been popular with its opponents. They have called the ADC by a variety of names, including, "All the Dead Critters" and "Aid to Dependent Cowboys."

 

In 1997, following the advice of public relations and image consultants, the federal government gave a new name to the ADC-"Wildlife Services." And they came up with a new motto-"Living with Wildlife."

 

This is an interesting choice of words. What "Wildlife Services" actually does is kill any creature that might compete with or threaten livestock. Its methods include poisoning, trapping, snaring, denning, shooting, and aerial gunning. In "denning" wildlife, government agents pour kerosene into the den and then set it on fire, burning the young alive in their nests.

 

Among the animals Wildlife Services agents intentionally kill are badgers, black bears, bobcats, coyotes, gray fox, red fox, mountain lions, opossum, raccoons, striped skunks, beavers, nutrias, porcupines, prairie dogs, black birds, cattle egrets, and starlings. Animals unintentionally killed by Wildlife Services agents include domestic dogs and cats, and several threatened and endangered species.

 

All told, Wildlife Services, the federal agency whose motto is "Living with Wildlife," intentionally kills more than 1.5 million wild animals annually. This is done, of course, at public expense, to protect the private financial interests of ranchers who wish to use public lands to graze their livestock.

 

The price that western lands and wildlife are paying for grazing cattle is hard to exaggerate. Conscientious management of rangelands can certainly reduce the damage, but widespread production of grass-fed beef would only multiply this already devastating toll.

 

"Most of the public lands in the West, and especially the Southwest, are what you might call 'cow burnt.' Almost anywhere and everywhere you go in the American West you find hordes of cows. . . . They are a pest and a plague. They pollute our springs and streams and rivers. They infest our canyons, valleys, meadows and forests. They graze off the native bluestems and grama and bunch grasses, leaving behind jungles of prickly pear. They trample down the native forbs and shrubs and cacti. They spread the exotic cheatgrass, the Russian thistle, and the crested wheat grass. Even when the cattle are not physically present, you see the dung and the flies and the mud and the dust and the general destruction. If you don't see it, you'll smell it. The whole American West stinks of cattle." - Edward Abbey, conservationist and author, in a speech before cattlemen at the University of Montana in 1985

While grass-fed beef certainly has advantages over feedlot beef, another answer is to eat less meat. If as a society we did this, then the vast majority of the public lands in the western United States could be put to more valuable - and environmentally sustainable - use. Much of the western United States is sunny and windy, and could be used for large-scale solar energy and wind-power facilities. With the cattle off the land, photovoltaic modules and windmills could generate enormous amounts of energy without polluting or causing environmental damage. Other areas could grow grasses that could be harvested as "biomass" fuels, providing a far less polluting source of energy than fossil fuels. Much of it could be restored, once again becoming valued wildlife habitat. The restoration of cow burnt lands would help to vitalize rural economies as well as ecosystems.

 

And there is one more thing. When you picture grass-fed beef, you probably envision an idyllic scene of a cow outside in a pasture munching happily on grass. That is certainly the image those endorsing and selling these products would like you to hold. And there is some truth to it.

 

But it is only a part of the story. There is something missing from such a pleasant picture, something that nevertheless remains an ineluctable part of the actual reality. Grass-fed beef does not just come to you straight from God's Green Earth. It also comes to you via the slaughterhouse.

 

The lives of grass-fed livestock are more humane and natural than the lives of animals confined in factory farms and feedlots, but their deaths are often just as terrifying and cruel. If they are taken to a conventional slaughterhouse, they are just as likely as a feedlot animal to be skinned while alive and fully conscious, and just as apt to be butchered and have their feet cut off while they are still breathing - distressing realities that tragically occur every hour in meat-packing plants nationwide. Confronting the brutal realities of modern slaughterhouses can be a harsh reminder that those who contemplate only the pastoral image of cattle patiently foraging do not see the whole picture.

[Guest guest]

 

Science is now saying that a cow produces more greenhouse gas everyday than does an SUV.

 

So, now science is blaming cows for global warming.

 

Sure, blame it on the cows.

It's not carbon based fuels that is the problem it is them darn cows.

moo

[theist 1]

 

Nowadays cows are raised worldwide primarily for their meat. Methane is made as a natural byproduct of their digestion. In the tropics, huge areas of forests are cleared for pastures, dramatically increasing populations of methane producing ants as a side effect. Loss of forests lowers carbon dioxide absorbtion as well. Methane is also far more "heat trapping" than carbon dioxide produced by automobiles.

 

Blame it all on human craving for cow flesh.

 

Yep. It is a fact. The sentimental attachment to cows does not change the facts.

 

Meat eaters and commercial milk drinkers keep this absurb situation in play.

[Guest guest]

Need milk, get under the chassis and drink it.

 

The Al Gore environmentalism is OK by me, because people's greed is always the cause for partial annihilations, especially of particular greedy and decadent societies.

 

However, when Mt Penatubo (in the Phillippeans) erupted in the eighties, more emissions were sent into the atmosphere than everything created by man since the dawn of the industrial revolution. In fact, some say almost five times the greenhouse gasses.

 

Dont wreck the planet, I support the green movement. But I also support the right of the earth planet to get flatulent itself and fart this civilization all the way to oblivion, without any hand of mankind involved whatsoever.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

ps cows are blameless. Its the feed, stupido!!!

[theist 1]

Please let's not pretend the cow culture today is vedic just because cows are involved. Cows have been WAY overbred in numbers even if a proper vedic cow culture model was in place. There are six billion plus humans on the planet and there just is not enough land for them all to keep cows out in a pasture.

 

And please stop the sentimental fruad about how Hare Krsna's all love cows. Most of you love cows so much you have them working as milk slaves while their male babies are killed for veal and the mothers themselves are slaughtered for meat comsumption when they produce too little milk to justify their been kept alive by their greedy "owners".

 

O' and what of their female children? Well they are kept alive to take their mother's place after they have been slaughtered.

 

O' but we all love Gopala the cowherd boy who plays with the calves in the forest all day don't we.

[Guruvani 0]

[Guruvani 0]

[Guruvani 0]

[Guruvani 0]

[theist 1]

Nice pictures of cows who are not victims of the commercial milk drinkers and their meat eating cousins.

 

Why not post some pictures of the ones who are forced to serve the bloody thirst of the COMMERCIAL milk drinkers next?

[Guruvani 0]

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[Guruvani 0]

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[theist 1]

 

Male calves that are taken from their milk producing birth mothers immediately after birth are then put in crates so small they cannot turn around. This prevents their muscles from getting tough as veal eaters like that ultra tender flesh.

 

They are also not given iron in their diets because anemic flesh is more tender. They stay in the crates for a few weeks and then are slaughtered and their corpses are processed for veal.

 

They are DIRECTLY the by products of the dairy industry. The cows need to be kept pregnant so they will keep producing milk and this is what happens to their male calves.

 

If you buy commercial milk then these people are working for you.

 

Let your conscience be your guide.

[suchandra 1]

 

Science is now saying that a cow produces more greenhouse gas everyday than does an SUV.

 

So, now science is blaming cows for global warming.

 

Sure, blame it on the cows.

It's not carbon based fuels that is the problem it is them darn cows.

 

They of course come up with such claims - calling them even scientific, because they know that people are far too stupid trying to get to the bottom if it's true or not. Methane produced from cows is different than methane produced in a chemical laboratory. One is easily bio-dagradable the other, created by scientists, not. Because they feel frustrated about their incompetence, they, as usual, cheat the public and in this case saying that cow's methane is the same as chemical methane and make a business for their "research". Same like vitamin c, chemical vitamin c is NOT the same like natural vitmanin c. Somehow people still cant figure any difference - na mam duskritina mudha..hopeless.

[Guest guest]

If you're so concerned about milk drinking Hare Krishna's being the cause for cows suffering, get off your ass and do something about it. I'm not a follower of Hinduism but I admire those Hindu groups that are doing their damnest best to prevent cow slaughter. And all you can do is sit in the comfort of your armchair and criticize devotees.

 

You post about 'veal' but not one line refers to the Dalai Lama's demoniac appreciation of a veal meal but instead you launch a useless attack against devotees. A Hare Krishna devotee does more for cows than all the cobined beef eating demons.

 

 

 

 

Male calves that are taken from their milk producing birth mothers immediately after birth are then put in crates so small they cannot turn around. This prevents their muscles from getting tough as veal eaters like that ultra tender flesh.

 

They are also not given iron in their diets because anemic flesh is more tender. They stay in the crates for a few weeks and then are slaughtered and their corpses are processed for veal.

 

They are DIRECTLY the by products of the dairy industry. The cows need to be kept pregnant so they will keep producing milk and this is what happens to their male calves.

 

If you buy commercial milk then these people are working for you.

 

Let your conscience be your guide.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

While I'll admit that theist can sound a bit strident on this topic, to say he's doing nothing is to be disingenuous.

 

Param-Gurudev, in his later years, almost never left his veranda. Rather, sincere seekers from around the world came to sit at his feet and hear him speak. What (practically-speaking) was he doing, but speaking from his arm-chair?

 

Yet, just see how his words have affected so many other sincere seekers throughout the world!! See what wonders have come from his gentle voice?!?!

 

In his own way--to the extent of his capacity--theist *is* doing what he can. Many of us have a deep respect for theist and try to take anything he says/writes to heart.

 

 

If you're so concerned about milk drinking Hare Krishna's being the cause for cows suffering, get off your ass and do something about it. I'm not a follower of Hinduism but I admire those Hindu groups that are doing their damnest best to prevent cow slaughter. And all you can do is sit in the comfort of your armchair and criticize devotees.

 

You post about 'veal' but not one line refers to the Dalai Lama's demoniac appreciation of a veal meal but instead you launch a useless attack against devotees. A Hare Krishna devotee does more for cows than all the cobined beef eating demons.

[theist 1]

 

You post about 'veal' but not one line refers to the Dalai Lama's demoniac appreciation of a veal meal but instead you launch a useless attack against devotees. A Hare Krishna devotee does more for cows than all the cobined beef eating demons.

 

This Dalai Lama topic was recently discussed on this forum. Sorry you missed it.

 

Thanks for kind words Murali.

 

"It's only words, but words are I have."- Bee gees

 

"The pen is mighter than the sword." -Somebody

[Guest guest]

Please accept my sincere apologies, Theist prabhu. I got carried away a little bit by your criticism of devotees and lashed out. I didn't mean to offend you and I hope you weren't.

 

 

This Dalai Lama topic was recently discussed on this forum. Sorry you missed it.

 

Thanks for kind words Murali.

 

"It's only words, but words are I have."- Bee gees

 

"The pen is mighter than the sword." -Somebody

[theist 1]

No problem and no offense taken. I lose it and lash out daily so I know the feeling.

 

On the subject of milk commercial milk production and the mis-treatment and slaughter of cows I can only request that devotees do their own research on this very important topic and then let their conscience be their guides.

 

Now I am only familar with the situation in the west and it may be that devotees in India are using milk from protected cows and so I certainly am not referrencing that situation.