“We are simply in a dreaming condition” explains Srila Prabhupada

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

THE SECRET VEDIC BOOK OF ORIGINS FINALLY RELEASED

 

 

 

The following book is a concluding confirmation as clearly explained by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, that the jiva/souls (all of Gods/Krishnas’ subsidiary, marginal living beings or all living entities) manifests originally and perpetually as a bodily (vigraha) servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna (The Supreme Vigraha or Bodily Form) that can never vacate from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha (the perpetual Kingdom of God/Krishna) as their perpetual rasa (devotional mood) body serving Krishna.

In a Nectar of Devotion lecture given on October 23, 1972, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = " /><st1:City w:st="on">Vrndavana</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>, Srila Prabhupada explains:

“We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone. Everyone! Why? Because every living entity is originally a devotee of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. But circumstantially, being covered by the coat of Maya, he’s playing like demon. But his original nature is a devotee of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsnera dasa. Everyone is eternally servant of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. But being influenced by Maya, when he gets this body, given by Maya...Prakrtih kriyamananih gunaih karmani sarvasah, when he conducted by the three gunas of maya, he thinks himself otherwise.”

In a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">London</st1:place></st1:City> on August 6, 1973, Srila Prabhupada further explains:

“We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago”

 

 

 

One must study Srila Prabhupadas’ books; tapes, letters and interviews diligently and openly challenge anyone who contradicts those books, referring mostly to Impersonalists, Buddhists, materialists and mundane religionists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The teachings of the Spiritual Master are absolute so Prabhupadas books, tapes (that all his books are via Dictaphone anyway) lectures, classes, morning walks, interviews and letters are all as equal as each other. Why wouldn’t they be so? Srila Prabhupada warned us to not dwell too much of why and how we are here, but to get out.

On many occasions he has said that our existence in the material world is so long that it seems we have come from tatastha and then throws his transcendental insight in the equation by saying that before that we also existed in another creation of matter and before that, and before that, and before that – how far can we go back? And he finishes by saying, before that even, we were with <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>.

 

 

 

The different ways of attaining jiva-tatastha consciousness

 

 

 

First the time factor of past present and future exists in the perishable mahat-tattva, a place of divided time that has the effect of decay and impermanence. The Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha imperishable aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti has no past or future and exists in the perpetual present as the Brahma-samhita teaches us. Tatastha consciousness on the other hand is the intermediate state that is in-between the two realities of creation - Vaikuntha and the mahat-tattva.

 

The Impersonal characteristic of ones consciousness is called the jiva-tatastha conscious state achieved AFTER the nitya-baddha consciousness becomes fed up with living in ethereal and biological vessels for millions of births. Only then after traveling through millions of ethereal and biological forms or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu, does one’s consciousness resemble an inactive stage of consciousness called jiva-tatastha that is unaware of past, present and future.

 

 

 

All bodily vessels in the mahat-tattva are provided by Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

 

It must be clearly understood that without the bodily provision supplied by Maha-Vishnu, the nitya-baddha jiva-s’akti or jiva tattva consciousness has no form and instead resembles a living seed or spark of consciousness that originates from its genuine bodily source (nitya-siddha-svarupa or rasa perpetual body) in Goloka-Vrndavana or the Vaikuntha planets.

 

The jiva-tatastha consciousness attained by great yogis after traveling through the mahat-tattva, is a suspended dreamless timeless characteristic state of the nitya-baddha dreaming condition, but even that dreamless dormant conscious state is temporary, due to the inherent active nature of the nitya-siddha bodily origins of ones nitya-baddha jiva-tattva consciousness.

 

 

 

In other words, the bodiless nitya-baddha consciousness originates from ones perpetual nitya-siddha rasa body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha. There are two different tatastha conditions the nitya-baddha consciousness enters.

 

 

 

One first enters the mahat-tattva due to activating their nitya-baddha lower consciousness with non <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> conscious thoughts, dreams and desires. Therefore the nitya baddha jiva-tattva consciousness is a manifestation of desires that require activity but cannot be active until Maha-Vishnu gives the nitya-baddha consciousness a bodily form within the blue-print of His mahat-tattva (material creation) creation.

 

 

 

The nitya-baddha consciousness is the sub-conscious extension of the perpetual nitya-siddha devotee in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha.

 

 

To reach the mahat-tattva the nitya-baddha consciousness has to first travel through the tatastha conscious condition that exists between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva and is also known as the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. This is the first connection the nitya-baddha consciousness has with the tatastha feature of individual consciousness or the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, which is factually made up of individual nitya-baddha consciousnesses existing in the tatastha dormant conscious state.

 

Some nitya-baddha’s may try to remain in the tatastha condition due to seeing the implications of proceeding to the impermanent mahat-tattva of pain ans suffering and ‘sit on the fence’ being neither in the Vaikunthas or the mahat-tattva however, the choice had already been made back in Goloka or on a Vaikuntha planet and eventually, due to their desires for self glorification and dreams of grandur, proceed as the jiva-tattva seed and enter the 'thoughts' and ‘dreams’ of Maha-Vishnu awaiting for Him to embody all ones dreams and desires with billions of bodily vessels over billions of years.

 

In this way Maha-Vishnu impregnates the nitya-baddhas or jiva-tattvas by His glance over His material creation and gives them ethereal form. In this way the nitya-baddha jiva-tattva begins its material existence of living out various non-Krishna conscious dreams and mistaken desires in different species and worlds within the mahat-tattva for trillians of years.

 

Eventually after millions of births, after great difficulty and struggle, the nitya-baddha consciousness is liberated from the ethereal and biological vessels from the mahat-tattva, but still trapped in their nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness because of not understanding they have a perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is always serving beautiful <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> way beyond the mahat-tattva and the lonely selfish impersonal tatastha condition of consciousness that they have become trapped in and further foolishly believe is their origins.

 

 

 

So on two occasions the nitya-baddha experience the tatastha condition of their own nitya-baddha consciousness - when they first proceed towards the mahat-tattva and when they leave it.

 

1. The first one is when ones dreaming nitya-baddha secondary consciousness leaves Goloka and falls to the intermediate stage of conscious transferral situated in-between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva. In this way the nitya-baddha consciousness is the manifestation of desires and dreams to enjoy the material world; however the nitya-baddha first goes through the initial stage of tatastha consciousness on its way to the mahat-tattva. When the nitya-baddha consciousness exits it tatastha intermediate stage of being in-between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva, driven by the desire to enjoy an existence of self-centered grandeur, it is then placed in seed form within the mind of Maha-Vishnu. The nitya-baddha consciousness in this stage of transformation is now called the jiva-tattva, jiva-sakti, jiva-prakriti, jiva-bhutah etc. Remember the nitya-baddha consciousness is formless and bodiless (due to only being made up of dreams, thoughts and desires) but maintains its individuality and identity due to being a sub-conscious extension of ones perpetual authentic nitya-siddha bodily form (vigraha). Only when the nitya-baddha consciousness enters the mahat-tattva, does the dreaming lower self receive a bodily ethereal vessel from Maha-Vishnu.

2. The second is when the nitya-baddha jiva-tattva becomes fed up with the temporary nature and decay of the material creation, being forced in every life to give up everything due to disease, old age and death, thus the seach for liberstion begins. Unfortunately without the guidance of a Spiritual Master, one can never truthfully know who they really are serving <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>; therefore one foolishly seeks out the Impersonal dormant state of consciousness called by many names such as Brahma-sayja, tatastha etc, due to the ignorance of not knowing their authentic perpetual bodily source in Goloka. Tragically the ignorant nitya-baddha jiva-tattva consciousness transforms into the jiva-tatastha ‘inactive’ condition and just becomes another spiritual spark of effulgence in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, believing it is the origins of all existence.

 

 

Nitya-baddha lower self in the Jiva-tatastha individual consciousness means ‘in-between the imperishable and perishable creations’, jiva-tatastha aspect of the nitya-baddha has no form until given a body by Maha-Vishnu in the Mahat-tattva and then becomes known as the embodied jiva-tattva, jiva s’akti, jiva-bhutah, jiva-prakriti etc.

 

The eternal nitya-siddha svarupa body exists in blissful Krishna Consciousness outside of the maha-tattva and way beyond the tatastha Impersonal intermediate stage of conscious projection that exists in-between Vaikuntha and the mahat-tattva that is also called the Impersonal Brahmajyoti as already explained.

 

When ones dreaming nitya-baddha secondary consciousness is in the intermediate stage of conscious transferral situated in-between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva, the nitya-baddha consciousness at this stage of beginning material life, is not a dormant consciousness but is the manifestation of material desires and dreams to enjoy the material world; however the dreaming nitya-baddha condition has to still first enters and go through the initial stage of tatastha consciousness on its way to the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

Remember the nitya-baddha consciousness is formless and bodiless (due to only being made up of dreams, thoughts and desires) but maintains its individuality and identity due to being a sub-conscious extension of ones perpetual authentic nitya-siddha bodily form (vigraha). Only when the nitya-baddha consciousness enters the mahat-tattva, does the dreaming lower self receive a bodily ethereal vessel from Maha-Vishnu

 

 

Only by the mercy of Maha-Vishnu does the jiva-tattva become clothed in bodily form (first ethereal or the subtle then further clothed by the biological vessel) so one can experience those dreams, thoughts and desires within the mahat-tattva or material creation. Even the ethereal body can appear as a spark form (some think the ethereal body is the jiva-tattva) of effulgence mistaken to be the bodiless jiva-tattva by less intelligent mystic yogis, Buddhists Jains and Impersonalists because of their ability to shape-shift their ethereal vessel and fit any bodily container from a biological tiny amebae to a large elephant or whale or even remain for millions of years in a mediative condition unaware they are still living in an ethereal body.

 

Only by 100% Krishna Consciousness can one become truly free from the subtle or ethereal body and reconnect back to their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha. In our 21<SUP>st</SUP> century primitive society, 99.99% of us cannot even understand we are not the biological body, what to speak of the ethereal body.

The Goloka-Vrndavana realm on the other hand is fully active in a way where there is no past or future, there is only the perpetual present, and therefore everything alive has always been there and will always be there.

 

Our svarupa body has always been there and can never leave there unless it is for Krishna Lila in the mahat-tattva. Other than that, only our non-Krishna Conscious nitya-baddha dreams can be transmitted or transferred to the mahat-tattva while our genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa body remains in eternity beyond time and space with Krishnas Personal Form in unconditipnal surrender. This also means when our extended consciousness returns it will be as if we never left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the founder of the International Society or Krishna Consciousness.

 

 

 

 

WE ALL ORIGINATED FROM GOLOKA

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “No one falls from Vaikuntha.” We really do not fall. We think we are fallen. But this just means we have forgotten our original situation and condition"

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices.

 

 

 

 

In this dreaming state after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but a perishable reality situated in one corner of the Brahmajyoti Spiritual Sky or creation, we choose to forget our actual position and thus are free to act out our non-Krishna conscious desire and dreams within the mahat-tattva cloud in our attempts to become the centre of attraction or in our attempt to even become a supreme enjoyer.

 

 

 

 

 

These mistaken self centered choices or non Krishna conscious dreams are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world, but Srila Prabhupada explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen and our authentic bodily self is eternally there, “We are simply in a dreaming condition” explains Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

The nitya-baddha dreaming sub-consciousness originates from ones perpetual svarupa or rasa body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha.

This secondary dreaming conscious manifestation first possess counterfeit bodily vessels (nothing like ones permanent svarupa bodily form outside the mahat-tattva in Goloka or Vaikuntha) that are real but temporary, beginning with the ethereal body of Brahma within the material creation and then can devolve after billions of births within the mahat-tattva, to a state of inactive or dormant dreaming consciousness that is also known as jiva-tatastha consciousness.

 

 

In other words the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simply the inactive non-dreaming secondary condition or lower reality (marginal nitya-baddha) of the marginal nitya-siddha devotees, transmitted from the fullness of their marginal svarupa or rasa-atma-vigraha body that is eternally serving Krishna in unlimited Lila’s or past times.

 

 

 

 

 

This secondary dreaming conscious manifestation first possess counterfeit bodily vessels that are real but temporary, beginning with the ethereal body of Brahma within the material creation.

 

 

 

What is the Brahmajyoti and its shadow the Impersonal Brahmajyoti? And what are the nitya-siddha devotee’s and their nitya-baddha shadow?

 

 

Remember it is important to understand that the marginal potency, energy or individual nitya-siddha-svarupa servants of Krishna ARE the fully active living effulgent Brahmajyoti in their original vigraha bodily Krishna Conscious condition serving Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, where as the living Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simply the comatose sub-conscious dreaming condition (nitya-baddha) of the nitya-siddha devotee’s that eventually go on (after existing in ethereal and biological vessels within the mahat-tattva) to manifest collectively, if they continue to deny who they really are in relation to Krishna, as the collective effulgent Impersonal living Brahmajyoti or shadow of the Brahmajyoti.

 

 

 

Therefore one must understand that the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simply the transformation of the individual dreaming nitya-baddha sub-conscious condition of the marginal beings, that eventually (with great difficulty) find their way to the shut dormant mode of their own consciousness that is non other than the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

 

 

Only when the Impersonal jiva-tatastha dormant sub-conscious transformation occurs from the nitya-baddha material active embodied jiva-s’akti, or jiva-bhutah sub-conscious secondary condition of the marginal living entities, that ones individual conscious condition and awareness changes into the Impersonal Brahmajyoti aspect of their own consciousness.

 

Only then can that secondary condition of the marginal living entities appear as an insignificant inactive dormant living spark of conscious transformation, due to denying that the origins of their tatastha consciousness originates from their own perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa devotional bodily form in Goloka-Vrndavana. This dormant tatastha Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or ones own consciousness is situated between the Vaikuntha imperishable Spiritual Sky and the perishable mahat-tattva cloud also situated in the Spiritual Sky.

 

 

 

This is the ultimate understanding of what the Brahmajyoti really is in its fullness. This is an important point to understand.

 

 

Unfortunately many caste Goswami’s, brahmanas, big, big gurus, jnani’s, sadu’s and pandits who foolishly believe the origins of our consciousness (jiva-tattva) is from the Brahmajyoti (Impersonalists), instead of the correct understanding that our consciousness (jiva-tattva) originates from our perpetual individual svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana, will enviously criticise, ridicule and even violently threaten the real Personalist Vaishnava’s who concretely know that all of us have always been personalists, even though from time to time we choose to forget that Krishna Conscious Svarupa perpetual body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, which is the origin and source of our individual nitya-baddha consciousness whether in the mahat-tattva or the Impersonal Brahman/Brahmajyoti, Brahma-sayujya or tatastha.

 

 

 

It is also said that the nitya-baddha shadow of the marginal nitya-siddha beings is where both the material mahat-tattva and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti come into existence. How this happens and fascilitated by Maha-Vishnu will be fully explained in this book.

 

 

Chanting Hare Krishna and engaging in devotional service will protect a sincere aspiring devotee as the cobbler was protected in the story of ‘the cobbler and the jnani’ (page ?) however there are also those sincere souls who may become disillusioned if they only follow the charisma of a particular Guru, Swami or general devotee when a philosophical crisis develops due to their sentimental understanding of Vedanta. Srila Prabhupada wanted all his disciples and grand disciples etc to study his books and learn HIS teachings of Krishna Consciousness and not simply become an un-knowledgeable follower in someone else’s charismatic religious plans, "Don't think, just do what you are told prabhu may have its place in the 1970s and 80s and even today for helping some, but it is certainly not meant for everyone”, it is an old cliché that can be misused by scrupulous leaders in management that will only deny one from their own personal realizations in their attempts to advance in Krishna Consciousness and their natural Spiritual development and growth meant to be nurtured and not exploited.

 

Therefore if you don’t want to be cheated when buying a diamond, you must have some knowledge of what a diamond is; similarly one must have some basic understanding of Spiritual life to begin with and then develop a solid understanding of Srila Prabhupadas books. I met one man in 1981 and he felt he did not know enough to get initiated, he even said to me that he wanted to see how the new Gurus in ISKCON settle in because it was only four years earlier that Srila Prabhupada had left this world. This man was intelligent enough to see that he just did not choose a Guru who was expert at imitating Srila Prabhupada, but wanted to be sure of his spiritual endeavours, after all Srila Prabhupada himself was not initiated by his spiritual master until he was thirty six years old. In this way this man felt he would not be mislead by material charisma in his humble attempt to be Krishna Conscious.

 

Many adult aspiring devotees who did get cheated in the 1980s were clearly victims of their own naivety because they were not qualified to take initiation in the first place, they could not tell the difference between an imitation guru and a real Guru of Krishna. How is it possible to understand the complexities of the karma that leads one to an imitation instead of the real thing? Its like the story of the diamonds in India, one has to be qualified to know what a real diamond is so they do not get cheated with glass imitations.

 

This mans wait turned out to be an intelligent choice because so many Gurus began to have difficulties in their attempts to be genuinely Krishna Conscious. He wanted to get to know his Guru and in this way, his sincere determination to wait and be certain his Guru was for real, would protect him from the dictatorial power trips, eventual fall down of those imitating Srila Prabhupada instead of humbly following him, and learn to see through those who have disguised their show of Spiritual advancement with the clever show of material charisma and opulence that had been the demise of so many sanyasis and Gurus and devotees in the past.

 

 

 

Such deep understanding of Srila Prabhupadas books, lectures, tapes and classes would also protect one from not only those who imitated him, but also other conflicting Vaishnava theories and the dreaded Impersonalism that has severely polluted our 21<SUP>st</SUP> century society.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

Unlike the nitya-siddha-svarupa higher self of ones personality and identity that is eternally as a bodily form, the nitya-baddha consciousness can only be given a bodily form or vessel by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva, until then the nitya-baddha lower self is simply a spark of living consciousness situated within the body or thoughts of Maha-Vishnu waiting to be ‘planted’ (embodied) within His mahat-tattva creation.

 

 

In this way when Maha-Vishnu glances over His material creation, He impregnates the mahat-tattva with His blue print of species of life then designates those bodily ethereal and biological vessels to the visiting bodiless nitya-baddha consciousness. In this way when one first enters the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu provides them first with the bodily, vessel and post of Lord Brahma.

 

 

 

 

When one first enters the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu provides them first with the bodily vessel and post of Lord Brahma.

 

 

The effulgence seen from the viewpoint of the mahat-tattva emanating from the Vaikunthas can also be the nitya-baddha conscious sparks or seeds entering the mahat-tattva and awaiting for Maha-Vishnu to give such ‘nitya-baddha sparks of consciousness’ bodily form. In this way the tranferral condition of consciousness is not the dormant tatastha conscious state achived after liberation from the mahat-tattva, achieved by those yogis who still deny they have a genuine transcendental body from whence they are dreaming their material existence and Impersonal escape from.

 

 

 

The bodiless conscious condition (nitya-baddha) that firsts enters the mahat-tattva in the shape of a seed or living spark is the manifestation of dreams and desires to exploit the material creation yet has no body to fulfil those desires in until Maha-Vishnu plants them in the mahat-tattva (providing an ethereal vessels for the nitya-baddha consciousness to get around within His material creation - mahat-tattva) when he glances over the material creation.

 

 

Therefore after first ‘sub-consciously’ leaving ones perpetual svarupa body in Goloka or Vaikuntha, the nitya-baddha dreaming conscious condition version of the ‘self’ passes through the intermediate state of existence (tatastha) that exists as a transitional zone between Vaikuntha and the mahat-tattva without any bodily form, awaiting for Maha-Vishnu to give reality and form to ones dreams.

 

 

 

This secondary sub-conscious nitya-baddha version of the self manifests when one chooses to no longer remain Krishna Conscious.

 

 

It is important to understand that the word marginal or subsidiary means all living entities or nitya-siddha-svarupa devotees, are Krishna’s secondary creation that is His surrounding Brahmajyoti effulgence or creation. The effulgence or marginal potency or energy emanating/surrounding Krishna, is created by Krishna with diversity that makes Krishna complete, in other word, every nitya-siddha devotee has a nitya-baddha lower self that can be activated when one no longer wants to be Krishna Conscious.

 

For the reason of diversity and for Krishna the Supreme Lord to feel complete, all of Krishna’s marginal potency, which are all of His nitya-siddha-svarupa emanations, have their own individual two-fold consciousness or the ability to choose between their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious original self or their nitya-baddha non-Krishna conscious counterfeit self. This means, even though everything is all the creation of Krishna, it is not some collective Borg (emotionless android assimilation) creation where everyone is assimilated into the devotional collective as a mindless servant. In fact those devotees who want to merge into body of Maha-Vishnu and just become an atom in His body are worse than the Mayavadi Impersonalists.

 

The ultimate relationship with Krishna is not one of thoughtlessness, inactivity or mindless devotional activity; real Bhakti-yoga or devotional service is based on ever increasing thoughtful love or service one wants to do.

 

The relation with the spiritual Master is based on reciprocation. Srila Prabhupada once said to a disciple ‘the love you give me is the love you will receive from me’ As a representative of Krishna and our guidance back to Krishna, Srila Prabhupada was simply illustrating the qualifications we need in order to re-establish our original position of servitude with Krishna that again qualifies us to re-establish and re-awaken back in our nitya-siddha-svarupa original bodily condition and fullness of consciousness (Krishna Consciousness)

 

In this way all marginal living entities or beings (Krishna’s effulgence) do not have to remain as their original nitya-siddha-svarupa-vigraha body if they decide to choose they no longer want to be Krishna Conscious, however only 25% make this choice at a time (each time the mahat-tattva cloud appears in the Spiritual Sky) while some nitya-siddhas never ever activate their nitya-baddha lower self and enter the mahat-tattva, unless it is for Krishna Lila or pastimes.

 

 

 

The important point made here is the nitya-siddha-svarupa devotees do not have to remain aware of their nitya-siddha-svarupa or their Krishna consciousness if they choose – this is what marginal means as Srila Prabhupada has explained. Marginal simply means the living entity has a two-fold ability, to choose either serving Krishna or serving the concoctions and dreams within ones sub-conscious mind.

 

 

From the marginal living entities’ nitya-siddha original bodily (vigraha) source, their secondary consciousness (nitya-baddha) enters into the mahat-tattva as a dreaming conscious state called the jiva-tattva and is provided by the over Lord of the mahat-tattva, the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu, counterfeit imitation temporary bodily costumes as well as being eventually provided the yogic pathway out of the mahat-tattva incarceration to their impersonal Brahmajyoti dormant consciousness, if they choose to pursue the difficult path of Impersonalism (which is denying their svarupa body or source and origins of their projected nitya-baddha consciousness).

 

The marginal nitya-siddhas sub-conscious ‘other self,’ or the nitya-baddha, sometimes manifests simply due to ‘choosing’ to activate that non-Krishna conscious secondary dreaming sub-consciousness, this right, even though the cause of much suffering for those who make that choice to ‘consciously’ leave Krishnas Personal association, is the endowed right of all marginal nitya-siddhas, although as the painting above illustrates, only 25% choose to get lost in their own sub-conscious dreaming nitya-baddha selfish desires.

 

 

 

So there can naturally exist a dark shadow phenomenon within all marginal nitya-siddha beings that is simply activated by the choice to not serve Krishna. That ability to choose between light and darkness is what ‘marginal’ means.

 

 

This dark shadow is called the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness and is where ones conscious awareness is restricted by their desire not to serve Krishna. Technically the activation of the nitya-baddha consciousness is the constitutional right all marginal beings. Within all marginal being is this duality of consciousness governed by the choice to serve or not serve Krishna. In this way all nitya-siddha beings have a nitya-baddha-shadow.

 

All nitya-siddhas exist in their full constitutionally devotional unconditional position as eternal selfless humble servant of the servant of the servant of beautiful Krishna and can never fall down however, the Srimad Bhagavatam is very clear that 25% (as shown in the painting above) of all nitya-siddhas choose to activate their nitya-baddha sub-conscious dreaming condition and turn their back on Krishna and their eternal original perpetual bodily form and follow their nitya-baddha dreams that places them in the mahat-tattva or material creation.

 

 

 

The dreaming condition of the nitya-siddhas’ in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha is just as real as the perpetual reality that exists there.

 

 

In this way even though every marginal being or emanation from Krishna has an originally svarupa body, they can change that rasa bodily identity simple by dreaming of serving Krishna in different ways, a peacock, blade of grass a flower, a tree, a friend, a parent, uncle, teacher, cow herd boy, a flute, a chair Krishna sits on, a jewel on the clothing of Krishna, a gopi, etc, etc. Such understandings are very intimate and only understood as one advances in their Krishna Consciousness. In a similar way, when one stops dreaming of Krishna then those dreams manifest their existence in a separate reality that is not Krishna Conscious, this is how one enters the material creation or mahat-tattva, not as their svarupa body, but in the bodies the dream of.

 

The individual marginal beings as their nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are known collectively as the Brahman or Brahmajyoti living personal effulgence that surrounds and emanates from the transcendental body of Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This personal Brahmajyoti takes up 75% of all creation, where all the marginal bodily living entities display the full potential of their individuality and identity that is always Krishna Consciousness. These percentage numbers are hard to understand when there is no beginning or end to all creation however, this description is given in the Srimad Bhagavatam that gives one an idea how many stay in Goloka with Krishna and how many choose to go it alone (without personal awareness of Krishna) into the land of the dreaming or mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

The marginal potency or energy of Krishnas’ effulgence is actually Krishnas’ nitya-siddha-svarupa-vigraha bodily servants that ARE the living effulgences that make up of the universe.

 

 

Krishnas’ bodily effulgence, Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky IS their bodily Spiritual pure effulgence, originally, ultimately and unendingly. This wonderful living effulgence is simultaneously the bodily effulgence of God/Krishna and His nitya-siddha-svarupa perpetual devotees. Further more, the subsidiary or marginal nitya-siddha vigraha servants of Krishna’s entrance into the temporary material creation (mahat-tattva) are only possible from within their sub-conscious dreams (nitya-baddha conditional state) and never as their nitya-siddha-svarupa body.

 

Such dreams are transferred as a secondary consciousness (jiva-tattva, jiva-s’akti, jiva bhutah, jiva-tatastha etc - collectively called the nitya-baddha lower self and is also the supply of consciousness that eventually can appear as the impersonal Brahmajyoti which is simply the dormant conscious condition of the nitya-baddha)

 

 

 

It is important to remember that the ultimate source of all consciousness is the bodily effulgence of Krishna.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

The dreaming Maha-Vishnu

 

<TABLE align=center><TBODY><TR><TD>

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between the nitya-siddda-svarupa body and the nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is the nitya-siddha is perpetually a transcendental Krishna Conscious bodily form where as the nitya-baddha consciousness has no bodily form until it is provided one by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva.

 

 

The shadowy cloud that exists in one area of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti is just as much a mysterious phenomenon too many Sanskrit scholars as the dark holes in outer space are to modern quantum science of the 21<SUP>st</SUP> century that material scientists are baffled by?

Srila Prabhupada has given us the full explanation of that dark mahat-tattva cloud creation of Maha-Vishnu that exists in 25% of the Spiritual Sky, as illustrated on the cover of his beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam and in the painting above. This dark cloud (mahat-tattva) also illustrated above is where the sleeping Maha-Vishnu accommodates the mostly mistaken dreams of the marginal nitya-siddha devotees and is where their nitya-baddha consciousness goes to be material (ethereal and biological) perishable bodily form, such bodies or vessels are part and parcel of the mahat-tattva and always belong to Maha-Vishnu. He provides such costumes so that the visiting nitya-baddha consciousness or jiva-tattva can exist in the mahat-tattva and attempt to satisfy their non-Krishna conscious dreams, thoughts and desires.

 

 

 

So what is the dark cloud that exists in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti that the Vedas call the material creation or mahat-tattva? Also what is the marginal potency or energy that radiates from Krishna’s beautiful body?

 

 

The perishable cosmic manifestation or material creation (mahat-tattva) is simply the place where the dreaming consciousness of the marginal devotees goes when they choose to deny Krishna and the perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve Krishna as.

 

 

 

This inferior sub-conscious condition of the marginal nitya-siddha devotees is actually the manifestation of a secondary independent self called the nitya-baddha consciousness (sub-conscious dark side or half of the marginal living entities)

 

 

The nitya-baddha dreams and desires are transferred as a life force, soul, jiva-tattva, jiva-s’akti, jiva-bhutah, jiva-prakriti etc that has substance and said to be ten thousandth the size of a tip of hair. These conscious projections transmitted from ones own nitya-siddha body in Goloka or Vaikuntha enters the mahat-tattva first in seed form (a spiritual spark of effulgent minute substance that IS the nitya-baddha consciousness with all its thoughts and dreams of grandeur) without any bodily form or ethereal covering. The nitya-baddha consciousness does not have any bodily form, it is simply dreaming consciousness presented to the mahat-tattva as a seed, spark or effulgence emanating from Goloka.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

The difference between the nitya-siddda-svarupa body and the nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is the nitya-siddha is perpetually a transcendental Krishna Conscious bodily form where as the nitya-baddha consciousness has no bodily form until it is provided one by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

 

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

 

 

 

Understanding the true origins of all living entities

 

 

This book is based on the teachings of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on Krishna Consciousness. The difference between mental speculation and philosophical speculation is backing up ones realizations with quotes from Srila Prabhupada who is my eternal Spiritual Master. Unless one engages in philosophical speculation, just how will one formulate relevant questions to place before their guru and search through his teachings for correct meaning and understanding?

 

Therefore the difference between philosophical and mental speculation is conclusions based on Srila Prabhupadas teachings (books, tapes and letters) that is handed down to our society in the 21<SUP>st</SUP> Century, giving the correct meaning and translations of all previous Acharayas, further more, as Srila Prabhupada has said, no other books are necessary other than his teachings. In fact, even if other Vedic texts are read or translated, that includes the six Gosvami’s, Bhaktivinode Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja etc; such literatures are seen always through the explanations Srila Prabhupada has given us.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupadas' lectures, classes, morning walks, letters, tapes and books are the basis for understanding all previous Spiritual Masters.

 

 

Devotees may read and translate ancient Sanskrit texts or recent Bengali and Hindu texts written by previous Acharyas however, such translations can only be properly seen through the teachings of Srila Prabhupada only and never through the teachings of others, including his godbrothers, god nephews, or even his own disciples who have gone outside of his teachings and have become polluted with contradictory views to the ‘Personal teachings’ of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada has said on many occasions that everything we need to know is in his teachings and there is no need to read any other literature.The purpose of this, as Srila Prabhupada clearly explained, is to protect the sincere seeker of truth from the vague interpretations and apparent contradictions from other groups or camps polluted by their Impersonal belief that we all originated from the Brahmajyoti.

 

 

 

All teachings of Impersonalism, Srila Prabhupada instructed his disciples, must be avoided.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada is the 32nd Bonafide Spiritual Master in a line of disciplic succession that goes all the way back to Krishna. Srila Prabhupada has single headedly, unlike his godbrothers and even previous Acharayas, Sadu’s and Babajis spread the teachings of Lord Krishna and Sri Caitanya Maha Prabhu to every corner of the globe.

 

Due to his endeavours and without any help from his Godbrothers in the Gaudiya math, the chanting of Hare Krishna and the distribution of his books has reached every city, town and village around the world, where Krishna has now become a household name.

 

 

 

Some terms will be unfamiliar to many who read this book, however such terms are just another way to empathize the fact that we always have an original svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha.

 

 

The terms atma-vigraha or nitya-siddha-svarupa, jiva-atma-vigraha, jiva consciousness, or the secondary conscious state or lower-self, known of the nitya-baddha, is also known as the jiva-tattva, jiva-s’akti’ jiva-tatastha, jiva-prakriti etc depending on the conditional state of ones extended secondary consciousness one is ‘dreaming’ in. Such terms, even though unfamiliar to many of us, are just another way to empathize that we always have an original svarupa body serving Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha even if we are unaware of this fact due to our absorption in the nitya-baddha dreaming conscious condition that can only function in the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

The terminologies such as ‘atma-vigraha’ or ‘jiva-atma-vigraha’ are just another translation like that of German, Russian Chinese’s etc, of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

The words atma (soul) vigraha (bodily form) is only establishing that the soul/jiva has an eternal imperishable body we call the nitya-siddha or svarupa body that is eternally Krishna Conscious in an atmosphere where no past or future exists because everything is in the perpetual present, as the Brahma Samhita teaches us.

 

The difference between the nitya-siddda-svarupa body and the nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is the nitya-siddha is perpetually a transcendental Krishna Conscious bodily form where as the nitya-baddha consciousness has no bodily form until it is provided one by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mother Yasoda looks in to the mouth of her son Krishna and sees the entire creation of the Vaikuntha worlds as well as the mahat-tattva material creation

 

 

 

 

This imperishable reality is beyond our material concept of temporary time and space. In fact the understanding in this book can only help many to further comprehend the true Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha origins of the life force or jiva-soul, instead of believing in the nonsense Brahmajyoti origins as propagated by the Buddhists, Impersonalists and other Vaishnava sects. This book also especially gives a crystal clear understanding of how the mahat-tattva (material creation) works, explaining the creator and facilitator of that ‘universe of the dreaming’; Maha-Vishnu.

The imperishable Kingdom of Krishna/God (Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha) and perishable cosmic or material formation (mahat-tattva) are both Krishna’s creation.

 

 

 

 

The effulgence surrounding and originating from Krishna is a bright all-pervasive living light called the Brahmajyoti as the Brahma-Samhita teaches us however, the foundation of that living light, Brahmajyoti, Spiritual Sky or the entire creation, is the unlimited marginal individual bodily atma-vigraha beings emanating from Krishnas' body as that perpetual Brahmajyoti.

 

 

 

 

The living Brahmajyoti in not Impersonal, it is held together by form because Brahman or Brahmajyoti is the existence of innumerable bodily forms that are adjacent to Krishna’s Personal body or Vigraha Form.

 

 

 

 

The Brahmajyoti effulgence, or all of Krishnas’ Vigraha expansions and marginal vigraha forms known as nitya-siddhas, have an eternal relationship of everlasting servitude to Krishna within either the central Goloka-Vrndavana Spiritual Sky or the surrounding Vaikunthas, or both!

 

 

 

 

All marginal nitya-siddha forms are eternally subservant to Krishna and have 78% of the qualities of Krishna/God as their full potential nitya-siddha-svarupa-vigraha bodily self.

 

 

 

Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, as Srila Prabhupada has taught us from his presentation of the beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam, therefore the eternal unchanging Spiritual Sky (Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha) is where unlimited expansions of Krishna are forever joined in a relationship of loving devotion with His innumerable (countless) marginal perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily nitya-siddha forms.

 

 

These bodily forms are the full Krishna Conscious potential of all marginal emanation within the imperishable timeless Spiritual Sky, Brahmajyoti or all creation. Krishna’s bodily Form and countless Vishnu Expansions, as well as His marginal potency or subsidiary vigraha devotee’s, ARE the entire source, or rather, IS the Brahmajyoti effulgence surrounding the Syamasundara form of Krishna.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

Srila Prabhupada clearly explains that in Vaikuntha beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen, we are simply dreaming from our nitya-siddha body, those dreams are called the nitya-baddha consciousness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE DREAMING MAHA-VISHNU AND HIS MAHAT-TATTVA UNIVERSES

 

 

 

Maha-Vishnu above is lying down resting and dreaming within His mahat-tattva creation. His dreams facilities the dreaming marginal living entities when they choose to ignore their perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, therefore, more or less, their separation from Krishna is compared to a dream that is temporary but very real. In this way the marginal beings withdrawals deep within their own sub-consciousness that takes them to the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu and forgets their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa-rasa beautiful body that is eternally serving Krishna.

 

·Nitya means always eternally positioned.

 

·Siddha meansthe imperishable perfection of ones marginal constitution or eternally liberated.

 

·Svarupa meansone's perpetual own form, shape or body.

 

·Rasa meansthe best, finest and most important part of ones existence which one performs eternally from the highest position of selfless service to Krishna and His devotees, this essence of ones marginal constitution that allows the freedom of choice also eternally enriches ones rasa relationship with Krishna to reciprocate and never ever stands still.

 

The freedom of choice Krishna gives all marginal beings allows them to surrender unconditionally over and over again by eternally expanding their loving devotion moods within unlimited relationships in an atmosphere that is eternally in the present, beyond the mundane time that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.

 

This is the absolute reason Krishna gives choose to the marginal living entities. Unfortunately the ability in choosing how to please Krishna can also be misused which in a sad way gives authenticity to Krishna granting free will in the first place to all His marginal living entities. To choose either ones full potential nitya-siddha-svarupa original self, or choose the sub-conscious secondary nitya-baddha non-Krishna conscious dream state.

 

The marginal living entities position of ‘choice’ allows one to therefore increase ones love for Krishna or forget Krishna and ones svarupa body altogether and instead takes shelter in the indefinite or shadowy nitya-baddha sub-conscious dreaming condition that can only exist as the jiva-tattva etc within the mahat-tattva.

 

·Nitya means always eternally positioned.

 

·Baddhameans eternally conditioned by NON-Krishna conscious desires and dreams of greatness that can only be fulfilled within the mahat-tattva (material creation) by Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

 

The nitya-siddha-svarupa body and the nitya-baddha lower sub-conscious dreaming condition are part and parcel of all individual marginal beings or emanations radiating from Krishna as His Brahmajyoti effulgence.

 

 

Just like every body has a shadow, every marginal nitya-siddha-svarupa devotee has a marginal nitya-baddha-sub-conscious condition only activated into existence by choosing to no longer stay with Krishna. It’s just like darkness is initiated by choosing to turn of the light in your house. This simply means all marginal living entities have the choice to accept whom they really are in the light serving Krishna as their nitya-siddha svarupa body or rasa body, or drift off into an egocentric dream of darkness where they ignore that eternal svarupa body.

 

 

 

The nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva or material creation emanates from 25% of the marginal nitya-siddha beings in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha who choose to ignore their nitya-siddha higher perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily self and opt for the sub-conscious nitya-baddha lower dreams created by their non-Krishna Conscious desires.

 

 

In this way ones dreaming consciousness enters the dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky called the mahat-tattva. It must be made clear that all ‘life’ that enters the mahat-tattva originates from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, such ‘life’ that enters the mahat-tattva is the nitya-baddha consciousness (jiva-tattva, jiva-s’akti/ jiva-bhutah, jiva-prakriti etc) that originates as the sub-conscious condition of the nitya-siddha-svarupa devotees or marginal living entities.

 

 

 

In other words the mahat-tattva is simply the place where the marginal living entities go when they choose to drift off into a non-Krishna conscious dream.

 

 

In this way the marginal living entities in their nitya-baddha dreaming spasmodic consciousness, enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the perishable and impermanent mahat-tattva and in the process, forgets the higher self of their marginal personality (nitya-siddha-svarupa body)

 

 

 

What does marginal mean?

 

 

To create the reality of free will and loving devotion that never ever remains stagnant in bliss or just being ‘assimilated’ into the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm as a loving android of Krishna’s, the marginal living entities are all created with two-fold levels of consciousness.

 

The nitya-siddha-svarupa consciousness is in the form of an eternal rasa Krishna Conscious body where the choice is always there to forever increase ones devotion to Krishna however, to make that choice factual and a genuine exchange of love rather than a mechanical mindless response, there is also the ability in all marginal living entities to choose their non-Krishna lower nitya-baddha condition of their marginal personality.

 

 

 

This is why all living marginal entities in Vaikuntha can ‘consciously’ fall down from their perpetual body in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha simply because of the way Krishna created all marginal living beings - with free will that makes ones love for Krishna real instead of mechanical.

 

 

After first choosing to extend ones consciousness from their rasa body and enter the mahat-tattva and them eventually surrender to a pure devotee of Krishna with the desire to be assimilated in total inactive bliss and become an atom at Krishnas lotus feet, is not only selfish but is Impersonalism!! Such desires is denying ones original rasa body or original position from whence their rebellious desires or nitya-baddha consciousness originated from in Goloka. The fact is the only way to enter the mahat-tattva or material creation is to ‘consciously’ fall down from their svarupa body in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha portion of the Spiritual Sky.

 

 

 

 

The mahat-tattva dark cloud is where Maha-Vishnu is in a deep dreaming state; His dreams hold mostly the mistaken dream realities and desires of the marginal beings while in their nitya-baddha lower self.

 

The nitya baddha sub-conscious condition of the marginal living entity is the rebellious dreams, thoughts, desires and impersonal escape of just a few (25%) of those eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa or atma-vigraha devotees. Krishna’s marginal potency or living entities all have a two-fold aspect to their existence.

 

 

 

 

The highest and original constitution of the marginal energy is bodily form known as vigraha that is the embodiment of sat (eternity) cit (full knowledge) ananda (always blissful) in the service of Krishna. This bodily condition of the marginal beings is the full expression of their potential that is called -

 

Nitya-siddha-svarupa One’s Krishna Conscious eternally positioned unique original personal bodily relationship with Krishna as an eternal servant that is without end in Goloka-Vrndavana, even if one has sub-consciously turned their back on Krishna to experience existence through their lower nitya-baddha sub-conscious self transmitted as non-Krishna conscious desires or thoughts that are clothed by ethereal and eventually biological bodies by Maha-Vishnu within His mahat-tattva.

 

 

Ones original svarupa body is always in Goloka.

 

 

On the other hand the marginal nitya-siddha devotional beings also have a secondary condition or nitya-baddha consciousness that can enter the dark cloud (mahat-tattva) situated in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti.

 

The reason why the lower self or nitya-baddha consciousness enters the mahat-tattva or material creation is due to their desires not to be with Krishna as their devotional form or nitya-siddha-svarupa body. Such disloyal dreams, thoughts and desires are projected or transmitted as a ‘secondary consciousness’ (nitya-baddha) to that dark perishable cloud or mahat-tattva temporary material manifestation where they are then given counterfeit bodily material forms (ethereal and biological vessels) by the creator of that perishable place of the dreaming, Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

THE SECRET VEDIC BOOK OF ORIGINS FINALLY RELEASED .

Quantum physics or the science of possibilities revealed on the highest level. The mysterious origin of the soul is now within our grasp of understanding.

 

 

 

 

Gods/Krishna's creation of the Krishna Conscious Spiritual Sky and the mostly non-Krishna conscious material creation (mahat-tattva) situated in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu expansion of the Godhead.

 

 

The following book is a concluding confirmation as clearly explained by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, that the jiva/souls (all of Gods/Krishnas’ subsidiary, marginal living beings or all living entities) manifests originally and perpetually as a bodily (vigraha) servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna (The Supreme Vigraha or Bodily Form) that can never vacate from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha (the perpetual Kingdom of God/Krishna) as their perpetual rasa (devotional mood) bodily serving Krishna.

 

In a Nectar of Devotion lecture given on October 23, 1972, in Vrndavana, India, Srila Prabhupada explains:

 

“We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone. Everyone! Why? Because every living entity is originally a devotee of Krishna. But circumstantially, being covered by the coat of Maya, he’s playing like demon. But his original nature is a devotee of Krishna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsnera dasa. Everyone is eternally servant of Krishna. But being influenced by Maya, when he gets this body, given by Maya...Prakrtih kriyamananih gunaih karmani sarvasah, when he conducted by the three gunas of maya, he thinks himself otherwise.”

 

In a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in London on August 6, 1973, Srila Prabhupada further explains:

 

“We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago”

 

 

 

The Jiva-soul: Its Origin, Nature, And Potentialities

 

 

 

 

The beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam teaches us that the perpetual Kingdom of Radha and Krishna, known as Krishna-Loka or Goloka-Vrndavana, is the original source of all creation and all living entities. This central planet further radiates an effulgence that encircles the Goloka-Vrndavana Planet with the imperishable Vishnu-Loka or the Vaikuntha Planets, where Krishna’s innumerable (countless) expansions of Vishnu and Lakshmi reside, along with their infinite number of devotee’s (known as Krishna’s marginal potency or individual bodily servants) takes up 75% of the immortal Spiritual Sky or total creation. Krishna’s planet is centered above in the red lotus flower and surrounded by unlimited expansions of Vishnu and Lakshmi in their surrounding yellow Vaikuntha planets.

 

 

 

 

Both these transcendental abodes are made up of living vigraha (bodily) all-attractive conscious beings, individual entities, who are the bodily radiance of Krishna, serving the Supreme Vigraha Lord Krishna or His Lord Vishnu Expansions as their own infinitesimal vigraha bodies.

 

 

 

 

It is also very important to understand in our present impersonal mundane religious and technological world, that all of us are originally individual perpetual bodily personalities; we are collectively and independently Krishna’s marginal potency in our everlasting original vigraha bodily position serving Krishna. Just like one cannot separate the Sun from the sunrays, the marginal living beings and Krishna are never separated. That analogy can be misleading because we certainly in no way resemble a spark or ray of sunlight and Krishna is certainly not a blazing Sun.

 

 

 

 

Krishna has an eternal bodily form and so does all of His marginal radiance of countless individual personalities.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately many in various so-called Hindu and Vaishnava sects in India cannot understand this fact due to being polluted by Impersonalism. Through the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, we can understand we are collectively and independently Krishna’s marginal potency in our everlasting original bodily position serving Krishna. Being marginal means we can choose to remain as we really are as our full Krishna Conscious svarupa body, or consciously drift from that body and enter the material creation, not as our eternal devotional body, but as a conscious projection that creates its own counterfeit bodily forms facilitated by the creator of the material creation, Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

 

 

 

No material energy (Maha-Maya) can exist in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha; therefore it is impossible to forget Krishna, so how does one fall down? The simple answer is they choose to leave, Srila Prabhupada explains that the tendency is there with all nitya-siddha devotees, because of being marginal energy of the Lord, to either stay with Krishna or reject him due to independent desires. Srila Prabhupada goes on to explain that actually no-one falls down because their svarupa body never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana and that that only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down.

 

 

 

 

 

This understanding of ‘vigraha’ (bodily form) is the highest realization of how all marginal living entities perpetually and originally existed – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. Krishna’s marginal potency or the nitya-siddha-svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-vigraha devotee’s can never fall down as their original bodily devotional self because of the perpetual uninterrupted nature of the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky that is set in the eternal present beyond the concept of past and future (75% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In one corner of the painting above, one can see the less significant and smaller mahat-tattva unpreserved cloud, also in that Spiritual Sky. This dark cloud is the perishable material universe divided by past, present and future time zones existing in unlimited dimensions of sub-space (where ethereal vessels for both heavenly and hellish planets exist) universes and secular (biological worlds like our own planet) is only 25% of creation.

 

 

 

Unfortunately there are some Vaishnava schools of thought who teach that the soul emanates from the brahmajyoti, which they foolishly claim, is living and growing from within itself. They claim that within the brahmajyoti is the source and impersonal origins of all marginal living entities that come to exist due to their equilibrium being somehow disturbed with the purpose of causing original activity to begin (a very vague impersonal statement), claiming that from non-differentiation in the Brahmajyoti, demarcation or separation from the Brahmajyoti begins and from there they have to work their way to Goloka that has never previously been seen by them. They finally believe that once reaching Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, it is impossible to again fall down into the mahat-tattva unless they enter the mahat-tattva for Krishna Lila.

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is what they actually believe in and preach to others is nonsense Impersonalism because they do not understand they have a permanent original body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha from where their present nitya-baddha deluded dreaming consciousness originates.

 

 

 

 

Many advanced Vaishnava’s in various sects’ including some Gaudiya Vaishnavas and even some ISKCON devotees wrongly claim that from a plain or bare sheet of uniform consciousness their individual consciousness grows and comes into existence. Such Impersonalism goes against the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and denies the true facts of ones origins which are from ones marginal Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is always in the perpetual Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky and can never fall down as previously explained.

 

 

 

 

One only thinks they are fallen or dreams they are fallen, but actually their svarupa body never falls down. Rather it is ones independent non-Krishna conscious thinking and ones self absorbed ‘dreaming’ thoughts of grandeur that transfer ones awareness of their surroundings to the restricted mahat-tattva as Srila Prabhupada has clearly explained.

 

 

 

 

This restricted conscious awareness or the dreaming condition of the marginal nitya-siddha-svarupa living entity is called the marginal nitya-baddha sub-consciousness. Mayavadis or Impersonalist cannot understand this simple explanation of what is really going on in Krishna’s/Gods creation.The Impersonalist understanding today is rampant and affecting many Vaishnava sects who wrongly believe that the jiva/soul becomes conscious after originally ‘falling out’ of the Brahmajyoti and then ‘somehow’ becomes endowed with free will.

 

 

 

 

The ‘Impersonalist Brahmajyoti-origin believers’ also incorrectly believe the nitya-baddha jiva/souls have never previously seen Krishna however, their Impersonal understanding obstructs them from understanding that long, long, long before entering the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahma-sayujya or tatastha individual dormant consciousness, they had first chose to extend from their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha.

 

 

 

 

Only their nitya-baddha sub-conscious desires and non-Krishna conscious dreams first enter the mahat-tattva creation of the dreaming governed by Maha-Vishnu, who provides bodily vessels so their dreams are fulfilled that goes on for millions upon millions of births until eventually reaching that Impersonal Brahmajyoti aspect of ones nitya-baddha consciousness that is called the jiva-tatastha.

 

 

 

 

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti effulgence is simply creations of the marginal living entities lower-self or nitya-baddha non-devotional consciousnesses that originates from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti and ultimately originate as the fully developed svarupa living entity that IS the magnificent effulgence emanating/surrounding Krishna. (How this happens will be clearly explained over the next few chapters). So the correct meaning of the word marginal means one can choose to either be on the side of exploitation (nitya-baddha sub-conscious dreaming position that can only exist in the mahat-tattva) or always remain as ones nitya-siddha-svarupa Krishna Conscious body in Goloka on the side of perpetual dedication and devotion to Krishna.

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (tatastha-s’akti, Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman consciousness condition of the life force), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”.

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices. In this dreaming state, we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but a perishable reality that exists in a temporary state in one corner of the Spiritual Sky, Brahmajyoti or creation”.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada -“We forget our actual positionand thus are free to act out our desire and dreams in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. These mistaken self centered choices or non-Krishna conscious dreams are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world but actually we are not fallen, we are simply in a dreaming consciousness that originates from our nitya-siddha body, those dreams are called the nitya-baddha or materially conditioned consciousness”

[suchandra 1]

 

 

These mistaken self centered choices or non-Krishna conscious dreams are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world but actually we are not fallen, we are simply in a dreaming consciousness that originates from our nitya-siddha body, those dreams are called the nitya-baddha or materially conditioned consciousness”

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could this mean that we are so to speak lying on a bed in the spiritual world sleeping and within that dream experiencing our stay in the material world? Although this stay is experienced as millions of years wandering through the different species of life it takes some 10 minutes of sleeping in the spiritual world? And when waking up we are cured of our envy against Krishna?

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

Could this mean that we are so to speak lying on a bed in the spiritual world sleeping and within that dream experiencing our stay in the material world? Although this stay is experienced as millions of years wandering through the different species of life it takes some 10 minutes of sleeping in the spiritual world? And when waking up we are cured of our envy against Krishna?

 

The answer is no, the spiritual atmosphere is not goverened by time and space like it is in the material creation, Everything there is eternal without decay and so is time. As the Brahma Samhita tells us, there is no past or future, only the eternal present exists in both Goloka and Vaikuntha, therefore your moment of self desire or inattentiveness is exactly that, no more than a moment. In other words when we return to our svarupa body that is always serving Krishna, it will as if we never left.

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

Could this mean that we are so to speak lying on a bed in the spiritual world sleeping and within that dream experiencing our stay in the material world? Although this stay is experienced as millions of years wandering through the different species of life it takes some 10 minutes of sleeping in the spiritual world? And when waking up we are cured of our envy against Krishna?

 

The other day I was writing three or four posts at once and was too hast in my response.

 

A clearer and more correct response to your comment, is that it can also appear as a ten minute 'day dream' as described by Suhotra Prabhu's who' s understanding in 'Our Original Position' explains this subject matter in his ISKCON authorized book that has been a great inspiration for myself and many other devotees in understanding this subject.

 

I therefore apologise prabhu for being blunt in my last post, I am only in the very beginning stages of understanding this subject matter however, I am already completely convienced by Srila Prabhupada that we all originated from either Goloka or Vaikuntha.

[Guest guest]

 

The answer is no, the spiritual atmosphere is not goverened by time and space like it is in the material creation, Everything there is eternal without decay and so is time. As the Brahma Samhita tells us, there is no past or future, only the eternal present exists in both Goloka and Vaikuntha, therefore your moment of self desire or inattentiveness is exactly that, no more than a moment. In other words when we return to our svarupa body that is always serving Krishna, it will as if we never left.

 

you mean to say that in Vaikuntha or Goloka nobody can tell what happened earlier in their life? such as: "we played in Yamuna earlier, lets do it again!" complete ignorance of the past? I was asleep for some time but I dont remember it? looks like ignorance to me.

 

that "present tense only" is a very peculiar concept, considering that we are supposed to have full knowledge about our individual existence. if we remember the past here in the material world, how can we not remember our earlier pastimes with Krsna in Goloka while living continually in the spiritual world?

 

seems like you simply make things up as you go, to maintain your pet theory

[Vigraha 0]

 

 

The occurrence of time only exists in the perishable mahat-tattva due to the phenomenon of past, present and future where as only the present exists in perpetual Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha.

 

 

Therefore, as theist has said, no one says ones svarupa body is sleeping in Goloka. Please understand that once and for all. Because of the absence of the time factor there is no loss of consciousness in Goloka once one’s nitya-baddha consciousness is dissipated and one has returned to the awareness of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is perpetually serving Krishna. Once one has returned one realizes herself as the endless nitya-siddha-svarupa-rasa body and the so-called fall was only an illusion...it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense as we know it.

The jiva-tattva or nitya-baddha consciousness (the soul) is not moving from one body to the next. Krishna says the soul is immovable in the Gita. The only movement there is is one of nitya-baddha jiva-s’akti consciousness and not movement as understood and experienced under the influence of material time and space. So from ones marginal svarupa body in Goloka- Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, the marginal nitya-baddha may manifest due to ones choice to ‘dream’ in a separated state from Krishna however, in reality one is never separated from their nitya-siddha-svarupa body and ones rasa with Krishna is not interrupted, they only dream for a moment they are separated. That condition of sub-conscious restricted awareness is called the nitya-baddha conscious condition that enters the mahat-tattva to become covered by the illusion of moving between birth & death, heaven and hell, past & future where that ‘moment’ for the nitya-siddha can be trillions upon trillions of years to the nitya-baddha condition of consciousness.

 

Srila Prabhupada- Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices. In this dreaming state after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but perishable reality in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or creation, we forget our actual position and thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. These mistaken self centered choices or non Krishna conscious dreams, are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world, but Srila Prabhupada explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen, We are simply in a dreaming.

 

Our perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa-atma-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha Krishna Conscious body does not fall and can never fall from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha. We simply choose to do ‘our own thing’ and knowingly turn our back on Krishna and the perpetual body we serve Krishna as because of the attachment to pursue our no-Krishna conscious dreams, desires and thoughts that put us in the centre instead of Krishna.

It is there within that mahat-tattva cloud, the projected secondary consciousness, emanating from ones original perpetual body, which can never fall from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, becomes contained in ethereal and biological vessels in a phenomenon of time and space (past, present, future, decay and impermanence) that does not exist in the perpetual Spiritual Sky surrounding the mahat-tattva. Such temporary ethereal and biological bodies are provided by the presiding Deity of the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu and guided (constantly tempted through the mahat-tattva by Maya-Devs’ s’akti, the wife of Maha-Vishnu.

The mahat-tattva cloud is a real manifestation like the other three quarters of creation or Spiritual Sky however, unlike the perpetual Spiritual Sky; the mahat-tattva or ‘cloud of the dreaming’ is temporary.

 

 

In other words the mahat-tattva is simply the place where the marginal living entities go when they choose to have their ‘moment’ of non-Krishna conscious dreaming however that ‘moment’ can appear to be trillions of years, then on return to ones rasa body, it will be as if they never left.

 

 

There is no beginning or end to the creation so in the face of eternity, time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning or end like all marginal living entities or nitya-siddha-svarupa devotee’s that are said to be emanating from Lord Krishna’s transcendental Vigraha body but have factually always exited without beginning as the Bhagavad Gita as it is tells us. All atma-vigraha ‘souls’ therefore are never created nor do ‘jiva-souls’ appear from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti as some learned Vaishnava scholars, gurus and sanyasis believe. Every living marginal entity has a perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body that they have always been for eternity without beginning and without end. Most of the Vedas therefore are dealing with the jiva-s’akti or jiva-tattva which is seeing everything from the viewpoint of the secondary nitya-baddha consciousness and not the nitya-siddha perpetual body. In other words, modern day 21<SUP>st</SUP> century Vaishnavism is seeing everything from the viewpoint of the nitya-baddha consciousness which is only ‘consciousness’ and has no form until given ethereal and biological bodies or vessels by Maha-Vishnu. The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless conscious projection.

[Guest guest]

In a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in London on August 6, 1973, Srila Prabhupada further explains:

 

“We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago”

 

Srila Prabhupada “formerly we were with krsna in his lila or sport”.

Just as Krishna is a perpetual bodily person, so are all His marginal emanations however, Krishna is always master and his marginal nitya-siddha devotees are always His servant.

 

One only thinks they are fallen or dreams they are fallen, but actually their svarupa body never falls down. Rather it is ones independent non-Krishna conscious thinking and ones self absorbed ‘dreaming’ thoughts of grandeur that transfer ones awareness of their surroundings to the restricted mahat-tattva as Srila Prabhupada has clearly explained.

 

The occurrence of time only exists in the perishable mahat-tattva due to the phenomenon of past, present and future where as only the present exists in perpetual Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha

 

No one says ones svarupa body is sleeping in Goloka. Please understand that once and for all. Because of the absence of the time factor there is no loss of consciousness in Goloka once one’s nitya-baddha consciousness is dissipated and one has returned to the awareness of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is perpetually serving Krishna. Once one has returned one realizes herself as the endless nitya-siddha-svarupa-rasa body and the so-called fall was only an illusion...it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense as we know it.

 

Srila Prabhupada- Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices. In this dreaming state after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but perishable reality in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or creation, we forget our actual position and thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. These mistaken self centered choices or non Krishna conscious dreams, are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world, but Srila Prabhupada explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen, We are simply in a dreaming.

 

One only thinks they are fallen or dreams they are fallen, but actually their svarupa body never falls down. Rather it is ones independent non-Krishna conscious thinking and ones self absorbed ‘dreaming’ thoughts of grandeur that transfer ones awareness of their surroundings to the restricted mahat-tattva as Srila Prabhupada has clearly explained.

 

This restricted conscious awareness or the dreaming condition of the marginalliving entity is called the marginal nitya-baddha sub-consciousness. Mayavadis or Impersonalist cannot understand this simple explanation of what is really going on in Krishna’s/Gods creation. The Impersonalist understanding today is rampant and affecting many Vaishnava sects who wrongly believe that the jiva/soul becomes conscious after originally ‘falling out’ of the Brahmajyoti and then ‘somehow’ becomes endowed with free will.

 

The ‘Impersonalist Brahmajyoti-origin believers’ also incorrectly believe the nitya-baddha jiva/souls have never previously seen Krishna however, their Impersonal understanding obstructs them from understanding that long, long, long before entering the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahma-sayujya or tatastha individual dormant consciousness, they had first chose to extend from their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, their nitya-baddha sub-conscious desires and non-Krishna conscious dreams that first enter the mahat-tattva creation of the dreaming Maha-Vishnu, going on for millions upon millions of births until eventually reaching that Impersonal Brahmajyoti aspect of ones nitya-baddha consciousness that is called the jiva-tatastha.

 

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti effulgence is simply creations of the marginal living entities lower-self or nitya-baddha non-devotional consciousnesses that originates from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti and ultimately originate as the fully developed svarupa living entity that IS the magnificent effulgence emanating/surrounding Krishna. (How this happens will be clearly explained over the next few chapters). So the correct meaning of the word marginal means one can choose to either be on the side of exploitation (nitya-baddha sub-conscious dreaming position that can only exist in the mahat-tattva) or always remain as ones nitya-siddha-svarupa Krishna Conscious body in Goloka on the side of perpetual dedication and devotion to Krishna.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (tatastha-s’akti, Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman consciousness condition of the life force), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -“Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices. In this dreaming state, we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but a perishable reality that exists in a temporary state in one corner of the Spiritual Sky, Brahmajyoti or creation”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -“We forget our actual positionand thus are free to act out our desire and dreams in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. These mistaken self centered choices or non-Krishna conscious dreams are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world but actually we are not fallen, we are simply in a dreaming consciousness that originates from our nitya-siddha body, those dreams are called the nitya-baddha or materially conditioned consciousness”

 

Srila Prabhupada - clearly explains that in Vaikuntha beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen, we are simply dreaming from our nitya-siddha body, those dreams are called the nitya-baddha consciousness.

 

Srila Prabhupada - - “Of course everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, not only have we forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -– “Every living being, out of the many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -– “By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi -- perfection of one's constitutional position. So Arjuna was a devotee, and he was in touch with the Supreme Lord in friendship”.

Srila Prabhupada - is very clear. “Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna.

 

Krishna in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krishna’s position,we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming state due to our non-Krishna conscious choices.”

 

Srila Prabhupada–“We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. (MEANING OUR NITYA-SIDDHA-SVARUPA BODY)

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself.

 

In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there”.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -"As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.”

 

Srila Prabhupada – “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya.

 

Srila Prabhupada “FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -"But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness".

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Just like in a dreamwe are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only".

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming conditionis called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second".

 

Srila Prabhupada -"He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position”.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he can go only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes BACK to Krsna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.

 

Bhativinode Thakur -“However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned jiva-tattva or jiva-s’akti extended consciousness looses the memory of their original spiritual rasa bodily form in Vaikuntha. . . Material rasas are perverted reflections of the nitya-siddha original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83

 

Ramanuja Acharya also vigorously argues that the spiritual perpetual rasa body of the soul has always existed and that upon liberation, one once again attains that which has always existed. (Vs. 4.4.1),

 

Srila Prabhupada - “We wanted to give up Krishna.” There is no mention of originally being in the Brahmajyoti, tatastha or the Viraja River in the mahat-tattva outside the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, or being always conditioned, or being in anything less than a fully developed perpetually vigraha

 

devotee in a relationship with Krishna that is eternally there in Goloka- Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, even if we presently are unaware of this fact due to our secondary dreaming consciousness (conditioned soul or jiva consciousness) restricted by the division of time and space within the mahat-tattva cloud.

 

Srila Prabhupada -“Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world.

 

But when we want to take Krishna’s position, we therefore put ourselves into a dreaming statedue to our non-Krishna conscious choices”.

 

Srila Prabhupada -"In this dreaming state, after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu, we forget our actual positionand thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer".

 

These mistaken self centered choices or non Krishna conscious dreams, are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world, but Srila Prabhupada explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen (here Srila Prabhupada is refering to our perpetual svarupa body),

 

We are simply in a non-Krishna Conscious dreaming condition that cannot stay in Goloka.

 

Srila Prabhupada -"Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.

 

Srila Prabhupada explains that ‘marginal’ means the tendency of the living being to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently within the material creation or mahat-tattva”.

 

Clearly explained here by Srila Prabhupada is how the non-Krishna conscious dreams that are sub-consciously separate from ones nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa body. are then transferred to the ‘creation for the dreaming’ known as the mahat-tattva.

 

This seconday (conditioned) extension of the nitya-siddha is known as the nitya-baddha condition of restricted awareness, manifesting in a dreaming condition of non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that is called the jiva-s’akti, jiva-tattva, jiva-bhutah and about 170 other jiva definitions depending on ones secondary conscious dreaming condition.

 

Srila Prabhupada “Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact “Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh. Just like a man seeing dream: “Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!”

 

Srila Prabhupada- “He is crying. Another man is, “Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?” But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: “The tiger has attacked me.” Therefore this example is given, na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation”.

The perpetual nature of a Jiva is the eternal active servant of Krishna as their nitya-siddha-svarupa origin. A Jiva as the nitya-baddha-tatastha consciousness (border line) or potency of Krishna exists simultaneously as a separate and non-separated entity. In other words when one chooses to forget Krishna, one is unwilling to serve Krishna as their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily self and therefore it is that aversion to Krishna that causes the nitya-baddha bodiless conscious condition to exist. The nitya-baddha consciousness originates from the nitya-siddha body and is instantaneously in the mahat-tattva, divided time and space when one chooses to forget Krishna.

 

Its not that we have two different selves, no, it’s not like that, there is only one marginal self that chooses to be with Krishna or reject Krishna. The simple choice all marginal living entities have is accepting ones Krishna Conscious perpetual body in Vaikuntha, while the other is rejecting Krishna and being confined to counterfeit temporary bodily forms in the mahat-tattva.

 

The difference is eternal time in Goloka or Vaikuntha world beyond past and future that exists in the perpetual present in contrast to a mahat-tattva or material world that is governed by time, space, past, present and future. In other words it is not that we have an eternal body in Vaikuntha and we are simultaneously in the material world, we are in the material world due to choice however, what separates our awareness from our perpetual body and our present biological body is the concept of time that can place us in both places at the same time.

 

What makes our consciousness appear to be divided into two (nitya-siddha and nitya baddha one is Krishna Conscious while the other isn’t) is the perception of time that we choose to be in; this is an important realization and is the only way to understand the difference between nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. In genuine reality there is no division because there is no time as we know it within Vaikuntha, only transcendental Lila time. There also is no decay, no birth, disease old age and death, what is there is perpetually there in their full potential which includes all the marginal expansions of Krishna as their unending rasa or svarupa individual bodies, or our svarupa and rasa bodies. So how can we also be in the material world? The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self however, in this thesis the nitya-siddha is referred to as the eternal form or higher self while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is called the secondary conscious projection or lower self. It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing mercy of the Spiritual Master

Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back.

 

Srila Prabhupada: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, ‘Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,’ I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become.” Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108 (San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

 

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?” Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 (Los Angeles

 

Translator: The question is: did we fall in this material world to find some highest pleasure? His question is did we fall in the material world to experience something, which is higher?

 

Srila Prabhupada: I do not follow.

 

Yogesvara: I think his question is the husband will leave the wife because he is dissatisfied. But if our love for Krsna originally is perfect why should we have left?

 

Srila Prabhupada: YOU HAVE LEFT... Just like somebody is daily eating puris and halava, and he wants to eat also puffed rice. So that tendency is there. That is also a side of enjoyment. ‘I am eating daily this, let me eat this.’ What is the difficulty? That tendency is there. That is also enjoyment. After all, we are hankering after enjoyment, anandamayo 'bhyasat. So, different taste we desire, that, "Let me taste this, let me taste that, let me taste that." So the real basic principle is enjoyment, sense enjoyment. That's all." Bhagavada-gita Lecture August 5, 1976 (Paris)

 

Srila Prabhupada is the personification of all Shastra He's life is the living Bhagavatam

[Sarva gattah 0]

‘Could it be we are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu while our authentic constitutional eternal self or foundation is perpetually a nitya-siddha devotee in Goloka serving Krishna?

The answer is yes.

“This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes” - Srila Prabhupada SB. 4.29.2b.

You cannot obtain a clearer answer than that.. Many respected devotees in ISKCON like also understand this and appreciate that ‘when we “return” to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another, they all tell the whole truth’

comment - What remains 'imperishable' beyond mundane material time and impermanence is ones perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha identity or body that every marginal living entity has had eternally without origin. One just has to wake up from their material dreams within Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and realize this fact by again becoming Krishna Conscious

"Lord Maha-Vishnu is the source of thousands of avataras in His thousands and thousands of subjective portions. He is the creator of countless individual souls. He is also known by the name of Narayana, meaning the shelter of all the individual jiva souls. From Him springs forth the vast expanse of water known as the spiritual <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Causal</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Ocean</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> wherein the material creation takes place. Maha-Vishnu then reclines in the waters of the <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Causal</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Ocean</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> in a state of divine sleep, called yoga-nidra. Thus, it is said that the universal creation is but the dream of Maha-Vishnu"- Brahma-samhita 5.11-12

"The living entity has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) .

'Therefore we have to keep ourself always in Krishna-thinking so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never comes. So keep yourself always awakened by <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness”. Caitanya-caritamrta lecture delivered in <st1:City><st1:place>San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> on <st1:date Month="2" Day="18" Year="1967">February 18, 1967</st1:date>

Comment - So what is the real meaning of nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) and nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)? Srila Prabhupada answers -

“We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>,

From Jayadvaita Swami web site he explains that Srila Prabhupada described our original state and the way we fall and leave it - .

“Constitutionally,” he said in one letter, “every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikunthaloka [the personal spiritual abode of the Lord], has a chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy.”

“Usually,” he explained, “anyone who has developed his relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misuse of his independence.”

In another letter, Srila Prabhupada gave further insights. “We are always with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Where is <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> not present?” But “when we forget this fact we are far, far away from Him. In the Isopanisad it is clearly stated, tad dure tad v antike: ‘He is very far away, but He is very near as well.’ (Isopanisad, Mantra Five).

So this forgetfulness is our falldown. It can take place at any moment, and we can counteract this forgetfulness immediately by rising to the platform of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness.”

Our relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is never lost, Srila Prabhupada said. “Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya. So it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position.

The relationship of the living entity with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is eternal, as both <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.”

In still another letter, Srila Prabhupada restated this in yet another way: “We are all originally situated on the platform of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar with the material world, or Maya.” But when we chant the Hare Krishna mantra sincerely and without offence, our original <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness is at once revived.

“So naturally everything about <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is originally known to us all, and as soon as we begin to associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His holy name, this memory gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always serving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in different ways.”

Our separation from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, Srila Prabhupada taught, is like a dream. We dream, “I am this body,” and we dream of happiness in material relationships. This dreaming condition is our non-liberated state. But although this state of dreaming may seem to last for lifetimes, as soon as we become <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious we awaken, and the dream at once disappears. “After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila [pastimes] of the Lord, when one comes to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness this period becomes insignificant, like dreaming.”

Do you understand what the concept of dreaming in the spiritual sense means? Don’t mix it up with the dreaming of your biological body for those dreams ARE illusion, On the other hand the dreams, thoughts and desires of the marginal living entity are very real but are temporary, That’s what Prabhupada means when using the words dream or dreaming. They are simply our no-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that are expelled from Goloka to the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and given ethereal and biological bodies (material bodies).

[Sarva gattah 0]

Kesava Krsna dasa writes - "When Sri Maha-Vishnu goes into yoga-nidra, this act of sleeping His mystic slumber is real - for anything the Lord does is reality. Within this mystic dream, we the minute living entities are in fact participating in it. How we choose to misuse our God-given independence determines whether we stay or leave this realm. Is it real? If it emanates from the Lord, the answer is yes".

The concept of ‘dreaming’ in the material sense has to be correctly understood as you have clearly explained. The word 'material dream' simply means mistaken ‘desires’ and ‘thoughts’ that are impermanent and outside the kingdom of a perpetual reality that is imperishable and never decays. It is that 'eternal' place of Goloka and Vaikuntha that all the marginal living entities are perpetually founded in their eternally spiritual body or svarupa.

Don’t identify the word ‘dream as explained by Prabhupada in relation to our existence in the material creation,’ with the dreaming of the biological body, for those dreams ARE illusion. On the other hand, the dreams, thoughts and desires of the marginal living entity, or jiva-tatastha, are very real but are temporary, that’s what Prabhupada means when using the words dream or dreaming. They are simply our non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that are excluded from Goloka and can only find expression within the yoga-nidra dreams of Maha-Vishnu. It is there such desires, thoughts or dreams are given ethereal and biological bodies (material bodies) that are the ornaments and decorations of the mahat-tattva.

These vessels not only belong to the mahat-tattva, but ARE the mahat-tattva, sometimes called mother nature, that the jiva-tatastha possess with their nitya-baddha secondary consciousness.

In this way, just like darkness appears when the sun is no longer visible, the nitya-baddha consciousness appears when one miss uses their free will to choose to ignore <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and their nitya-siddha body they serve <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> as, which is their (jiva-tatastha) full potential. Nitya-baddha therefore is the secondary consciousness where one can experience their self centered mistaken dreams.

The reason the word 'dream' is used is because Prabhupada explains that Maha-Vishnu in His yoga-nidra state, is in a trance or dream, and that dream is the mahat-tattva or material universe.

Yoga nidra literally means ‘sleep’

‘This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

He also explains that the living entities entrance in the mahat-tattva is also a dream state.

“This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Srila Prabhupada SB. 4.29.2b.

Look at all the paintings of Maha-Vishnu and we see He is lying down sleeping and dreaming and that dream is the mahat-tattva.

Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because just as the analogy that the sun and the sun are inseparable, the superior energy <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and the marginal living entity jiva-tatastha are always together.

Achintya-Bheda-Abheda or inconceivable one-ness and difference, in relation to the individual marginal living entity and Krishna Achintya means 'inconceivable', bheda translates to 'difference', and abheda translates to 'one-ness'.

The full expression and perpetual originality of jiva tatastha is not impersonal as some sects believe. This MEANS jiva-tatastha is eternally represented by their endless nitya-siddha body in Goloka AND not as some impersonal inactive state in-between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva that has confused the meaning of the word tatastha.

Only in this way does the marginal living entity or jiva-tatastha, from’ time' to 'time’, misuse their free will and choose to forget Krishna and the continual nitya-siddha body they serve Krishna as, and set in motion their lower nitya-baddha consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva and 'rents’ temporary bodily vessels (dreams that are real but temporary) off Maha-Vishnu that always belong to Maha-Vishnu’s ‘thoughts’, making Him always the doer and not the nitya-baddha consciousness

When the Gita says we are not the doer of activities it means that all activities in the material creation are actually the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. He is dreaming all ethereal, biological vessels and their innate surrounding (which is ALL collectively the mahat-tattva except for the visiting nitya-baddha consciousness or jiva-tatastha, jiva-s’akti etc as Prabhupada explains -

“The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature”.

Chapter 3. Karma-yoga

text 27

“The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Ch 3 txt 27 purport.

Also jiva-tatastha is the marginal living entity ‘individual influence’ in-between the superior energy (Krishna), and the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) that obviously includes all the ethereal and biological vessels the jiva-tatastha possesses when they choose to miss use their free will and enter the mahat-tattva, forgetting Krishna and their eternal nitya-siddha body that is ever present in Goloka

[Sarva gattah 0]

The following is a Room conversation, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Year="1977" Day="25" Month="4">April 25, 1977</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City> by Srila Prabhupada to establish that the original and eternal expression of the marginal living entity (jiva-tatastha) is nitya-siddha.

Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> automatically.

That is called svarupa-siddhi. You have got original relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. Chaitanya-charitamrita . That is a... Just like you are son of some gentleman. That is a fact. It is not that the son becomes father or father becomes son. No. The son is son; the father is father. Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under--... That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi. So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal.-- Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, <st1:date Year="1974" Day="7" Month="12">December 7, 1974</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>

Raga-marga is not artificial. It becomes, svayam eva sphuratyadhah. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau... Everything, devotional relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, you cannot establish artificially. Everyone has got a particular relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. So svarupa-siddhi is attained at a certain stage. Just like svarupa-siddhi... The desire for sex life is there in every human being, but when the boy and girl come to the mature stage, it becomes manifest. It is... is not learned artificially. Similarly, the raga-marga, svarupa-siddhi, becomes revealed or manifest. Shravandi suddha chitte karaye udaya. Udaya . This very word udaya is used.

Just like sun. Sun becomes visible when the sun rises automatically. You cannot force the sun to rise at dead of night. That is not possible. Sun will rise. You just wait. When the time will be right, morning, <st1:time Hour="18" Minute="0">six o'clock</st1:time>, you'll find the sun. Similarly, the devotional service, we have to execute with patience, with enthusiasm.--Nectar of Devotion lecture, <st1:date Year="1972" Day="20" Month="10">20 October 1972</st1:date>, Vrindaban)

PRABHUPADA: The change is taking place in this material world. There all tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa . Every one of us has a different taste of associating with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and that will be realised when one is liberated.

HANSADUTTA: So that's fixed already.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. That is called svarupa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family we enjoy different rasas . We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relationship with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>... The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife?

HANSADUTTA: I see.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that "I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas." No. That is not... Everyone thinks, "My rasais the best." Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Chaitanya-charitamrita . Why don't you see?

HANSADUTTA: And Nectar of Devotion .

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is the best."

HANSADUTTA: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some--

PRABHUPADA: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Even the trees in Vrindaban, they want to serve <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ananda. Everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment.-- Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, <st1:date Year="1971" Day="10" Month="2">10 February 1971</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Gorakhpur</st1:place></st1:City>

PRABHUPADA: Tirtha-guru, if he's able to take him to the temple, then tirtha-guru. Otherwise he's a goru, cow, tirtha cow, that's all.

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: Say like that?

PRABHUPADA: Yes [laughs], tell them that. He's unable to show Jagannatha. Then how he's guru? It is guru's responsibility to bring his to... That is upanayana. Upanayana, this sacred thread, means the guru brings him near God.

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: Yeah. This man gives them some thread, makes them touch his feet, the whole thing, offer coconut--

PRABHUPADA: He's a foolish rascal. What can be done?

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: Yeah. Jagannath, when he was telling us about this babaji, he said that there's also these babajis, they claim to be a guru for giving initiation into their svarupa .

PRABHUPADA: Svarupa-siddhi.

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: Yeah, svarupa-siddhi. So we can mention this as also rascaldom.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. What can be done? Cheaters there are. If you want to be cheated, who can save you? He has made guru without asking hisguru. He submits to others. Then how we can save him?

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: What does that do to his relationship with his own spiritual master?

PRABHUPADA: Eh?

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: How does this affect his relationship with his--

PRABHUPADA: They don't care for his [sic--their] own spiritual master.

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: But what...? This means their relationship is spoiled?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Guror avajña, aparadha .

TAMAL <st1:place>KRISHNA</st1:place>: Aparadha.

PRABHUPADA: And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has advised, "Save yourself from aparadha." Some aparadha, and they are going away, just like Nitai. Guror avajña.--Room conversation, <st1:date Year="1977" Day="25" Month="4">April 25, 1977</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>

[Sarva gattah 0]

We all must take a stronger stand that our constitutional position is eternally nitya-siddha without any origin. We are always nitya siddha and due to being marginal, we sometimes misuse our free will to choose and forget this fact, we lose track of our original position. From another viewpoint - ‘We are always marginal whether we are as our eternal nitya-siddha body in Goloka or as our secondary nitya-baddha consciousness in the material creation.

MARGINAL MEANS - The living entities are situated between the material and spiritual potencies yet due to eternal time, which means a creation that is indestructible and imperishable, the marginal living entity or jiva-tatastha, already has a perpetual bodily (svarupa) relationship with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comThe]Krishna</st1:place> and the body they really are persistently and enter the material creation or mahat-tattva as a secondary 'dreaming consciousness projection, which then automatically becomes under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu. Therefore every object the living entity encounters within the maha-tattva, like ethereal (subtle secular) and biological (secular) containers and there surroundings, are the inferior energy of the Lord Krishna, facilitated by His Maha Sankarsana expansion Balarama who is the dreaming Maha-Vishnu and creator of the mahat-tattva

 

[font=]<font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that is without beginning or end.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The living entity can use their free will (that is a characteristic of being marginal) and decide at any moment to abandon their service to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and the body they really are persistently and enter the material creation or mahat-tattva as a secondary 'dreaming consciousness projection, which then automatically becomes under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu. Therefore every object the living entity encounters within the maha-tattva, like ethereal (subtle secular) and biological (secular) containers and there surroundings, are the inferior energy of the Lord Krishna, facilitated by His Maha Sankarsana expansion Balarama who is the dreaming Maha-Vishnu and creator of the mahat-tattva

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>In this way the living entities are called marginal potency because they can be surrounded by the <st1:place>Superior</st1:place> energy or be covered by the inferior energy.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The inferior energy has no life and is only moved by life, moved by the marginal entities nitya-baddha consciousness and simultaneously Maha-Vishnu as the supersoul that accompanies every jiva-bhutah.(nitya-baddha)

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>In this way both the nitya siddha body and the nitya-baddha consciousness are expression of the jiva-tatastha (marginal living entity)

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The nitya-baddha consciousness is also fully dependant on Maha-Vishnu like the marginal living entities nitya baddha body is fully dependant in Goloka. All the ethereal and biological vessels (material bodies) are provided by Maha-Vishnu via His representatives like Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva and the 33,000,000 demigods so that the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness can obtain vessels in Maha-Vishnu's creation according to their Karma.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Akruranatha - That is what Srila Prabhupada mean by marginal potency or “tatastha shakti”. It refers to the eternally minute, dependent, subordinate, fragmental characteristic of the jiva. This constitutional attribute of the jiva exists even when the jiva serves the Lord in a perfect spiritual body that is qualitatively just like the Lord’s body. He is always “marginal potency”.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>I would like to add further and stress the fact - ‘And the full potential of the marginal living entity or jiva-tatastha is their eternally nitya-siddha svarupa body that is eternally founded, protected and sheltered in Goloka beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva’s (material creations) temporary and decaying reality.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world?’

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada – “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> by the cloud of illusion that is material. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City>, on <st1:date Year="1971" Day="30" Month="7">July 30, 1971</st1:date> -

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada establishes the fact that the original and eternal expression and bodily identity of the marginal living entity (jiva-tatastha) is nitya-siddha.

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>“That is called svarupa-siddhi. You have got original relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. Chaitanya-charitamrita. Room conversation, <st1:date Year="1977" Day="25" Month="4">April 25, 1977</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>

<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> automatically. Room conversation, <st1:date Year="1977" Day="25" Month="4">April 25, 1977</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>

<FONT size=3>

[Sarva gattah 0]

Tatastha s’akti refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being (you and I) and IS ‘our’ perpetual identity, personality, individuality and desires that communicate our own autonomous way of thinking of how to serve and please Krishna in a selfless manner, that remains that way for all eternity. This loving exchange or reciprocation with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and His devotees is the purpose of all marginal living entities and why they have free will. It is simply there so the living entity can express their own splendid loving exchanges of humble devotional service and gratitude to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, in their own unique way. If there is no such choice of expression and free will, then how can there be love?

We therefore eternally exist independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Lord Krishna), where our authentic everlasting genuine bodily self is always serving Krishna, or we can ignore Krishna and who we really are altogether, and take shelter (not as a perpetual svarupa body) within the perishable inferior energy (mahat-tattva material creation) of Maha Vishnu.

[Sarva gattah 0]

Some devotees once said in Mayapur that it is too difficult to understand how we originally feel down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed. Read this over and over, try and understand that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand.We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.

 

Here is Srila Prabhupada's response.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.

 

Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.

 

Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”

 

Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.

 

Acyutananda - “He can return”.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada

 

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

 

Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya

zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam Class

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan

 

Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976 Questions to Srila Prabhupadfa of how we fell down from Goloka, (not as our nitya-siddha body) as our dreaming nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness

 

Srila Prabhupada - “So as eternal servitors of Krishna—our constitutional position—we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall”. Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967

 

This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE.

The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.

We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s'skti IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy, jiva-soul or tatastha-s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation as Akruranatha prabhu and Shiva also correctly explained to us.

 

The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serving the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

 

Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.

 

Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva souls sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.

 

Therefore JIVA TATASTHA refers to us, the living entities who are presently covered by the transitory inferior material energy (ethereal and biological vessels)

 

How have we fallen to the material world?

 

We have all attained our present condition of existence in the material creation due to firstly choosing between the Lord’s two energies. We all have our genuine place or full Krishna Conscious potential in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is everlastingly there, yet also always have the choice to remain aware of our perpetual svarupa body and genuine identity in Vaikuntha that is constantly serving Krishna. We therefore can use our God given ‘marginal’ free will to foolishly enter the perishable universe of imagination and fleeting dreams as our mistaken desires and thoughts to achieve absolute power over all I purvey. However, in our forgetful state we forget that all our desires, dreams and thoughts are given the facility to exist only by the mercy of Maha-Vishnu who is the great facilitator of His maha-tattva creation.

 

Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy because they ARE the marginal energy and are therefore ETERNALLY called jiva-tatastha.

 

The marginal living beings (jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti) are autonomous expansion of Lord Krishna that has no beginning, no origin, or ending. They can choose to remain Krishna Conscious in their full devotional potential or transcendental body under the loving supervision of the superior energy (Krishna in Goloka or Vishnu in Vaikuntha), or be covered by the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) In both cases the Supreme Lord is the origin and maintainer of the living entities, whether in their perpetual natural ‘svarupa’ Krishna conscious devotional service in Goloka or Vaikuntha, or if they have chosen to miss use their free will to abandon who they really are by entering the transitory illusionary dreams of greatness and chasing such desires within Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming temporary creation (mahat tattva).

 

"If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal". (See CC Adi 2.96)

 

“The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present. Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time”. Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

 

The statement above clearly explains how the imperishable higher feature of the jiva-tatastha is ones eternal ’svarupa Krishna Conscious body’ which is ones perpetual constitutional position that is eternal present in Vaikuntha. The permanent characteristic of the jiva tatastha is ones eternal svarupa body which is the perpetual constitutional original position of all marginal living beings.

 

Consequently the secondary conscious characteristic of the jiva tatastha that becomes covered by the inferior energy or mahat-tattva, is nothing other than a dreaming condition that temporarily exists while the one unconscious of their full constitutional bodily foundation in Goloka. The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have always existed without beginning or end.

 

Srila Prabhupada explains this -

 

“For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?” Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.20 - 21

 

“The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same”. Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.23 - 24

 

In conclusion, the marginal living entities (tatastha s’akti) nitya-siddha identity is perpetually beyond the mundane decaying effect of time and space in the material creation (mahat-tattva) and is ‘always’ in Goloka. In other words ones eternal svarupa is always in Goloka.

 

Tatastha s’akti refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being (you and I) and IS ‘our’ perpetual identity, personality, individuality and desires that communicate our own autonomous way of thinking of how to serve and please Krishna in a selfless manner, that remains that way for all eternity.

 

This loving exchange or reciprocation with Krishna and His devotees is the purpose of all marginal living entities and why they have free will. It is simply there so the living entity can express their own splendid loving exchanges of humble devotion service and gratitude to Krishna, in their own unique way. If there is no such choice of expression and free will, then how can there be love?

 

We therefore eternally exist independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Lord Krishna), where our authentic everlasting genuine bodily self is always serving Krishna, or we can ignore Krishna and who we really are altogether, and take shelter (not as a perpetual svarupa body) within the perishable inferior energy (mahat-tattva material creation) of Maha Vishnu.