Manu Vaivasvata

[Guest guest]

 

As for Lowborn, you keep reminding me of my ignorance whilst yourself wallowing in the most fanciful variety of propositions. Prove to me that Nagas and Vaivasvata Manu exist and are watching us - I will then adopt a more enlightened conception of our origins, and be thankful to you for it.

 

 

what can I prove to you? not much.

 

at least you dont have the same "prove me" attitude when it comes to God

 

why do you believe in Him? what proof did you demand to believe in His existence?

 

first you have to have an open mind. then you have to study the knowledge. then you start the practical investigation - and eventually the proof reveals itself. to you. that proof is not transferable, because it is very subtle.

 

same with Nagas. but you can still return home, back to Godhead, without believing in them.

[Guest guest]

Darwin had serious flaws in his conclusions, or maybe it was those who followed him, typical revisionists.

 

Personally, I accept micro-evolution, adaptation to environment, mutation of species. These things cant be disproved by the anti-darwin crowd. But the so-called scientist cannot verify anything slightly related to macro-evolution, blobs of biomass sprouting fins, then arms.

 

Im very supportive of the nagas. They live within the earth, and are greatly more powerful than humans. Sometimes they are viewed, and then are wrongly catagorized as extra-terrestrial. But they are most intra-terrestrial. They reside in the very opulent tala planets, also referred to as sub-terranean planetary systems, meaning beneath the surface of the earth. I never liked (particularly) the drawings in Bhagavatam, showing the talas under the earth planet. The earth is a sphere, and as such, these drawings mean that the talas are above the earth, which is not factual according to shastra.

 

I love the naga race. They are sometimes demoniac, but often are great allies and devotees of the Supreme Lord. Just as Bali and Prahlada are authorities on devotional service to the Supreme Lord, even though born in the Asura race, nagas are that way as well. Because of their great opulence (nagas create all the jewels, diamonds, rubies, etc), sometimes, just like the elite human classes, they get a bit puffed up. But when this is destroyed, or by chance they associate with devotees, they are great allies.

 

The glory of Krsna is held by Kaliya, the Naga King. The nagapatnis, the wives of Kaliya, are devotees fully emmersed in the madurya rasa, the highest platform of love of God.

 

Speaking of Nagas, and the Kaliya pastime of Sri Krsna, has anone wondered about the birth of Mexico City, the fight between the serpant and the eagle that lasted for eons in the middle of the lake, the place where mexico city was built. The Flag of Mexico. Even if I werent a wild speculator, Id raise my eyebrows concerning the similarity in diverse cultures, Garuda fought like that with Kaliya.

 

Im with the nagas here, its their planet. Disrespect, and they will shake you loose. Humans originally did not touch the earth, they flew above and did not die, but became enamored by the taste of honey, landed, traded their wings (which became the mountains) for genders, and became stuck and overpopulated. Shiva saved the day by imploring Brahma to spare the humans for this indiscretion.

 

Nagas have been WATCHING us ever since. Be nice, or they will..........

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS Dont be mean to lowborn. I think shes a nagapatni.

[Guruvani]

I saw some show about UFOs a few years ago and there was some account of some UFO that landed in Russia and some Russian farmer was hiding in the trees watching and saw some Naga-like being come out of the door and look around a minute and then get back in and fly away.

 

The witness said it looked like a human with the head of a reptile.

 

I haven't see that story on any other show since and I am an avid watcher of UFO documentaries.

[Guruvani]

One of the earliest, modern-day reports is that of Ashland, Nebraska police officer Herbert Schirmer. On December 3, 1967, Schirmer claims to have been taken aboard a UFO that appeared just outside of Ashland, where he encountered humanoid beings, 4 feet 6 inches to 5 feet tall, who wore close-fitting silvery gray uniforms, boots, and gloves. Their heads were thin, and longer than a human head. The skin on their faces was grey-white, the nose flat, the mouth merely a slit which did not move, even when they spoke. Their eyes were slightly slanted. While only slightly reptilian in their outward appearance, these beings bore a "winged serpent" emblem on the left side of their chest. Schirmer alleged that the beings are from another galaxy, and have bases on Earth. [9]

[Guest guest]

 

Dont be mean to lowborn. I think shes a nagapatni.

 

yesssssss, my precioussss

 

Nagas can hear and see the vibrations in the ether, thus they can even understand our thoughts and intentions - another similarity with the "alien" reports.

[Rishi_L]

 

yesssssss, my precioussss

 

Nagas can hear and see the vibrations in the ether, thus they can even understand our thoughts and intentions - another similarity with the "alien" reports.

 

Maybe nagas and naginis are, in some cases (if not most), the beings that are described in alleged abduction accounts carried out by 'reptilian' beings?

[Guest guest]

 

Darwin had serious flaws in his conclusions, or maybe it was those who followed him, typical revisionists.

 

Personally, I accept micro-evolution, adaptation to environment, mutation of species. These things cant be disproved by the anti-darwin crowd. But the so-called scientist cannot verify anything slightly related to macro-evolution, blobs of biomass sprouting fins, then arms.

 

Im very supportive of the nagas. They live within the earth, and are greatly more powerful than humans. Sometimes they are viewed, and then are wrongly catagorized as extra-terrestrial. But they are most intra-terrestrial. They reside in the very opulent tala planets, also referred to as sub-terranean planetary systems, meaning beneath the surface of the earth. I never liked (particularly) the drawings in Bhagavatam, showing the talas under the earth planet. The earth is a sphere, and as such, these drawings mean that the talas are above the earth, which is not factual according to shastra.

 

I love the naga race. They are sometimes demoniac, but often are great allies and devotees of the Supreme Lord. Just as Bali and Prahlada are authorities on devotional service to the Supreme Lord, even though born in the Asura race, nagas are that way as well. Because of their great opulence (nagas create all the jewels, diamonds, rubies, etc), sometimes, just like the elite human classes, they get a bit puffed up. But when this is destroyed, or by chance they associate with devotees, they are great allies.

 

The glory of Krsna is held by Kaliya, the Naga King. The nagapatnis, the wives of Kaliya, are devotees fully emmersed in the madurya rasa, the highest platform of love of God.

 

Speaking of Nagas, and the Kaliya pastime of Sri Krsna, has anone wondered about the birth of Mexico City, the fight between the serpant and the eagle that lasted for eons in the middle of the lake, the place where mexico city was built. The Flag of Mexico. Even if I werent a wild speculator, Id raise my eyebrows concerning the similarity in diverse cultures, Garuda fought like that with Kaliya.

 

Im with the nagas here, its their planet. Disrespect, and they will shake you loose. Humans originally did not touch the earth, they flew above and did not die, but became enamored by the taste of honey, landed, traded their wings (which became the mountains) for genders, and became stuck and overpopulated. Shiva saved the day by imploring Brahma to spare the humans for this indiscretion.

 

Nagas have been WATCHING us ever since. Be nice, or they will..........

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS Dont be mean to lowborn. I think shes a nagapatni.

 

As far as i know, humans can't use weapons on them b/c of their extreme pyschic pwrs. probably related to some type of gem in their head. I agree they are devotees and are in that body b/c they did something bad in one life. These animals are humongous. They are not friendly so you better have a smiley face for them.

Those UFO people are not Nagas but some other extremely intelligent species, I believe their name in Upanishads is Pisala. This species is a very moral one even more so than Nagasikas. They cannot reach potential max human intelligence but they are very technological and opulent. In fact, I have seen a cartoonish picture of their world online but I do not want to disclose b/c it is copyrighted... They are about 5' max. I believe they survive off oxygenated air just like us. Of course they come to Earth to teach a few evil humans a lesson once in a while. No switch for their automobiles but a hand-recoginition push switch; depends on the owner. I have heard their vehicles are not too hard to drive. I have seen so many videos of their anti-gravity ships on TV and declassified government reports describing their encounters with them. Unfortunately, almost everyone without affliation with those people categorizes it has sci-fi fantasy.

One species we do not want to run into is vampires. Those things are murderers w/ superhuman pwrs. Hard to kill them.

I nvr. new that Kaliya snake was a Naga. I know it turns into a human after it is defeated. Probably someone cursed by god as usual.

 

Astrophysicists need to research into the possibility of portals and how those things operate. It is obvious this universe is the peak of the creator's material imagination.

[Guest guest]

 

Those UFO people are not Nagas but some other extremely intelligent species, I believe their name in Upanishads is Pisala. This species is a very moral one even more so than Nagasikas.

 

you mean Pisaca? that is a possibility, but they are hardly very moral beings. these are the guys who do cow mutilations if I'm not mistaken

[Guest guest]

I know are a few vaisnava genius scholars read these forums.

let me tell you--you know i've read some of the philosophy of gaudiya vaisnavism and i believe its epistemlogy is better than anything i've heard of or encountered. problem is, i can't systematically logically reproduce my belief or experiences.

The first major source is sabda-brahman which lot of people say imply scripture (nowadays interpolated bigtime) but I think is incorrect but is a catch-all name for spiritual revelation. Problem with scripture is that we all have flawed senses so the input is flawed and the scripture could have added flaws through history so the input is flawed again.

 

Anyway to me the soul originating from tatashta shakti is a perfect source of knowledge b/c it has no flaws and pure reflection on it leads to perfect knowledge upto the ability of doing it and the limit of soul knowledge which is extremely high.

 

So, can someone help me and give me a correct explanation of knowledge sources?

[Guest guest]

 

you mean Pisaca? that is a possibility, but they are hardly very moral beings. these are the guys who do cow mutilations if I'm not mistaken

 

are you an expert on this area? Cow mutilations? You know there is a lot of cow slaughter going on on this planet. You want to blame cow mutliation on Pisaca? Shame on you for abusing the images of them. Blame us not them. What you said just sounds like bad propaganda against them.

[Guest guest]

 

Maybe nagas and naginis are, in some cases (if not most), the beings that are described in alleged abduction accounts carried out by 'reptilian' beings?

 

It is not easy to say. Nagas are not known to use space crafts - they use interdimensional portals, opened by special devices. Various Danava species use flying crafts and they are likely to be behind these abductions. Danavas can take shape of your fears, ie appear different to different people based on their imagination.

 

when the eye sees a pattern of light it tries to compare it to the library of previously seen objects. a sense of fear makes us look first at the stored images of our horrors.

[Guest guest]

 

are you an expert on this area? Cow mutilations? You know there is a lot of cow slaughter going on on this planet. You want to blame cow mutliation on Pisaca? Shame on you for abusing the images of them. Blame us not them. What you said just sounds like bad propaganda against them.

 

No, prabhu, I am not an expert in this area, but all the information I have on Pisacas from the Vedic literature portrays them as a rather sinister Danava species.

[Rishi_L]

 

No, prabhu, I am not an expert in this area, but all the information I have on Pisacas from the Vedic literature portrays them as a rather sinister Danava species.

 

Are the Danavas the same as the 'giants' mentioned in the Old Testament of the Bible? Apparently, the Danavas are also described as having a gigantic stature.

[Rishi_L]

Hang on, I think I've confused the danavas with the daityas. My bad.

[Guest guest]

 

It is not easy to say. Nagas are not known to use space crafts - they use interdimensional portals, opened by special devices. Various Danava species use flying crafts and they are likely to be behind these abductions. Danavas can take shape of your fears, ie appear different to different people based on their imagination.

 

when the eye sees a pattern of light it tries to compare it to the library of previously seen objects. a sense of fear makes us look first at the stored images of our horrors.

 

Blame Danava (probably another universal species class) until you can prove pisacas are doing this cow slaughter. As far as i know pisacas are not even overweight or fat and are strict vegetarians. however, they are ugly. maybe we need a pisaca teddybear to improve our image of them.

coming here to Planet Earth to us Earthlings is a sign they want to socialize a little and they are a little curious and naughty. maybe they can't use their astral bodies but have extremely advanced intution?

[muralidhar_das]

I was studying Brhadbhagavatamrtam by Srila Sanatana Goswami, looking at the things he says about the svarup of the jiva-atma. I found that Sanatana had said that the jiva has senses and sense organs such as the prototype ear and nose, even when merged in Brahman (((sleeping atma-vigrahas who are not on earth but in Vaikuntha, please stop reading now!!! what I say after this will be incomprehensible to you))).

 

Because the soul is consciousness he can manifest from his subtle [astral or mental] body a nose, ear, eyes etc in order to experience a reality outside of brahmaloka (nirvisesha brahman).

 

According to Sankhya, with the description of 24 elements of creation, etc., SB 3.26.35 etc.. the sky or space is produced from mind, and when the sky is produced the ear which hears sound moving in the sky also manifests.

 

Anyhow, I was thinking about this and about something someone from the Gaudiya Math said:

 

 

When the soul is within the brahma conception he only has a type of global consciousness or national consciousness but no individual consciousness; only a hazy consciousness. Then, when there is a push from the side of Mahavishnu, Sadashiva, then from that creative impetus the Prakriti (Nature) begins to act and the mahat-tattva arises. This is just like in the first stage of life when the soul is present within the mother's womb and its body is in a nondifferentiated state with no defined bodily conception - no awareness of an eye, no head, no hand, no leg. In this first stage of the child, in what is known as the embryo, the soul is in a stage like the mahat-tattva. The mahat-tattva is like a big embryo, and from there the child starts to know or experience an eye, ear, hair, and everything. Gradually, from the mahat-tattva everything is springing up and growing.

Prakriti is the womb and the first stage of the embryo is the mahat-tattva, and then from that stage differentiation and bifurcation begins, gradually. Many individual jiva conceptions are coming out from the womb of Prakriti. First there is a general ego consciousness, and then from there so many, many jiva conceptions are coming out. The individual egos are coming from the mahat-tattva. A huge number. The common, shared conception of all the ego of the jiva souls is the mahat-tattva, and from there so many, many individual egos are emanating.

Prakriti is like a watery substance and consciousness is mingling with this material substance. Consciousness is coming into Prakriti, into water, and then there is a commotion, and something arises and comes out from that: the mahat-tattva. This mahat-tattva divides itself into innumerable units of ahankara (ego). The Pancatanmatra appears (the conglomerate of material elements such as earth, water and heat). The fivefold variegated form of creation come into existence.

The five primordial substances each divide into three, becoming fifteen. Then lastly, from the tamo-guna (the inert nature), the earth, water, fire, air and empty sky are generated. These things are the grossest outcome, the most gross product of Prakriti. The eye, ear and other sense organs are the middle level products of Prakriti. And the sun and other celestial bodies are the more subtle forms of material existence that come into existence. Twenty four categories of material substances are discussed, we find ultimately, in this Sankhya philosophy, which explains nature.

 

Where Guru Maharaj speaks of the sun and moon he means the DEVA who is a celestial body or celestial being; he doesn't mean the physical sun and moon which are the bodies that become manifest from tamoguna (earth,water-hydrogen-oxygen,fire).

 

And it ocurred to me that maybe there is a third option for the creation of life on this planet besides creationism and evolution through chance.

 

It occurred to me that maybe little minds inside of little embryos that are first a single cell and are then dividing and sub-dividing, maybe these little minds emerging from the universal mind of "mahat-tattva" are the causes of evolution.

 

Personally, I do believe souls in ignorance enter into water and then wriggle like sperms or tadpoles and evolve to a higher stage of life. Some only have a limited creative drive and they form less complex bodies, but others with backing from a higher consciousness, those souls may conceive a more complex "eye" and "ear" that will evolve on their head. So then, from the sperm of a rishi like Kasyapa there can be one son who evolves a bird head (Garuda) and another who has a snake head (Vasuki).

 

anyhow, just some random thoughts....

 

and you creationists and guruvani (the destructionist), don't bother trying to drag me into debates about Creationism because I'm a committed evolutionist (of some sort).

 

Theoretically, I'm not opposed to the idea that living creatures can arise from slime that evolves from chemicals on the seashore. What is the sea, anyhow? Mother ocean? Prakriti? And besides that, a human baby grows from some slime that comes from a man's body. What interests me more, however, is the mental energy [mind-stuff] within that slime which is trying to evolve into a "happy" state of mind.

[theist]

 

Theoretically, I'm not opposed to the idea that living creatures can arise from slime that evolves from chemicals on the seashore. What is the sea, anyhow? Mother ocean? Prakriti? And besides that, a human baby grows from some slime that comes from a man's body. What interests me more, however, is the mental energy [mind-stuff] within that slime which is trying to evolve into a "happy" state of mind.

 

Yes but "arising from" as in that slime actually transforming into life itself as well as completely separate forms which then transform into hundreds and thousands of other forms and on it goes?

 

Yes the mind -stuff gives rise to the particular forms. We see that principle from one birth to the next where our mind's form at the time of death is the form we will achieve as our next body without fail. The physical body forms around the mind.

 

And as we have learned it carries over from one universal devastation to the next creation (visarga) where the living beings lying in suspended animation within the body of Mahavishnu pour forth into the new creation as Lord Brahma gives them bodies according to their mental states.

 

I believe forms for living beings descend from Brahmaloka and spread throughout the universe by the work off designated beings who structure and populate planets with approriate forms thus my 'off planet' remark. earlier. IOW's it is more of a descending process than one of evolution.

[muralidhar_das]

the earth arose from the ocean through the power of varaha

life arose from the ocean, from the womb of the oceanic brahman.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

Yes but "arising from" as in that slime actually transforming into life itself as well as completely separate forms which then transform into hundreds and thousands of other forms and on it goes?

 

How about directed evolution, Theist? Doesn't sound too bad, does it?

[theist]

 

How about directed evolution, Theist? Doesn't sound too bad, does it?

 

Yes I understand what you mean. However Krsna arranges for there to be forms in the material world it is not for me to reject. But the science is not there to suggest that is happening. Again, no transitional forms in the fossil record.

 

I don't reject evolution of species on a spiritual basis but on a material one.

[theist]

What is so odd about extra terrestial genetic engineers designing species and running planets like a type of farm.

 

Humans themselves are even now mixing forms to produce new types of forms ie chimuras. Crude as that science now is if left unchecked they will become more proficient and the practice will become widespread as it will be commercially very viable.

 

Within the universe are we to assume that humans are the first to discover this?

[zjj]

Haribol,

 

I'm coming to the discussion late, prabhus, but I wanted to mention Michael Cremo's book The Hidden History of the Human Race. I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in learning more about evolution and the origins of man. This book is actually a condensed version of his much larger book called Forbidden Archaeology.

 

Jai

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

Haribol,

 

I'm coming to the discussion late, prabhus, but I wanted to mention Michael Cremo's book The Hidden History of the Human Race. I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in learning more about evolution and the origins of man. This book is actually a condensed version of his much larger book called Forbidden Archaeology.

 

Jai

 

Hare Krishna,

 

I own a copy of FA, Michael Cremo's larger work. It is thought-provoking, no two ways about that, but if you read the reviews of the tome which have been written by the spokespersons of the mainstream scientific establishment, you'll reconsider taking what is contained in it at face value. For a quick, amateurish glimpse into the general reception to Cremo's efforts, just read the response to it on the Amazon online bookstore website. I think that the verdict the public has given of FA is quite damning.

[theist]

But that poor reception by the mainstream would be expected I would think. Haven't read it myself but if someone would give a short synopsis that would be appreciated.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

OK, Lowborn Prabhu. You just triggered an acid flashback!!

 

Very good discussion. Loved the article Vikram-ji. I'd mention one point of disagreement--the fact that the existence of God lies outside the purview of science doesn't mean that it lies exclusively in the realm of faith. Many beings have had *direct experiences* of the God-nature. This certainly is not the exact same thing as "faith".

 

I can accept evolution without dismissing the Vedic cosmology as "myths". They both have their validity within their respective frames of reference.

 

Also, notice the scientist's use of the word "useful" when talking about the theory of evolution. Regardless of whether it's true or not, the theory is found *useful* by scientists.

 

Isn't this in the same vein as "accepting the favorable" and "rejecting the unfavorable"? It is not that what we reject is not Krishna (everything is Krishna). It is that we reject things that are not *useful* to us in our devotional life.

 

 

If it was not for the Nagas and other Upadevas humans would have destroyed the Earth decades ago. They are the Watchers. There is so much more to this world you have no clue about... but as you said: Ignorance is bliss

 

I do not fight devotees who have faith in evolution in the typical sense - that battle has very little meaning for our spirituality. But I think you are missing a lot by denying this world it's magic. I pity people who are so rational they never even try to see the hidden dimensions all around them, pulsating with the most fascinating life you cannot even imagine