a brief history of the cult of mary in Christianity

[theist 1]

Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. Nobody can say the Bible was meant for the same class of men as the Bhagavad-gita. And Bhagavad-gita is the ABC's of spiritual knowledge. Beyond that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. How great Srimad-Bhagavatam is nobody can imagine. And beyond that is Caitanya Caritamrta. But beginning from the Bible or Koran, on up the principle remains the same. Just like beginning from the pocket dictionary, up... letter to Sivananda april 1968

[Guest guest]

"By failing to recognize the intercession of Mary, those who claim to follow Lord JC may fall quite short of tasting the nectar of rasa" -- mahaksadas

 

There are many millions of Christians around the world who are NOT Catholics and somehow or other are able to taste the nectar of rasa [give and take in a reciprocal relationship] in a personal relationship with Jesus as well as the Holy Ghost as well as The Father.

 

You can ask any of the millions of Christian Protestants in the world today. And probably quite a few of them do not have a lifetime dependency on marijuana as their source of "rasa". So one questions the validity of his claim.

[Guest guest]

Another problem in the essay The Pearl is this:

 

"...More extensively described in various extra-Biblical studies [no citations of what studies these might be]. Mary, the embodiment of the concept of 'Israel' is no other that [sic] Srimati Laxmidevi, the constant companion of Sri Narayana..." --mahaksadasa

 

This is insulting to Laksmi. The author says that it is NONE OTHER than Laksmi. He doesn't say that it is an expansion of Her, he says that Mary IS Laksmi. And that is FALSE. Why? Because Laksmi is NEVER without Narayana.

 

Prabhupada said that "Mary is the representation... can be considered..." That does not mean that Mary IS Laksmi. A representation of something is different than the actual thing. A photograph, a picture, is a representation of something. So you can view Mary like an archetype, or representation, of primeval Goddess. NOT THE ACTUAL GODDESS.

 

Laksmi never would in one million years leave the side of Narayana. The author said, "No other than Laxmidevi Herself."

 

Whenever Laksmi appears it is cited in the Vedas and predicted. Guru, sadhu, sastra. I have never read that Laksmi appeared all by Herself without Narayana. Also, Laksmi is the Goddess of Fortune. She is not the Mother archetype in Hinduism. Laksmi is a particular energy of opulence.

 

Prabhupada mentioned Mother. Durga is a Mother goddess. He mentioned Radharani because Gaudiyas consider Her to be the original from Whom all the expansions emanate, if you follow that tradition.

 

But PLEASE do not be telling me that Mary ***IS NO OTHER*** than Laxmidevi. In Gaudiya Vaisnavism there is a story of why Laksmi is not in Vrndavana. She was hearing from Narada Muni how attractive Her husband is when He is Krsna. So She thought that would be pretty fun to experience Her Husband that way. So She told Narada She wanted to take birth in Vrndavana. He said, "Okay, three things you must do: One is you must do menial labor and milk cows all day long, churn butter, take care of crying kids, get all dusty and dirty from dust of cows."

 

She thought about it a moment and say, "Er uh well okay." Because in Vaikuntha Laksmi does not get dirty or do menial labor. Only She is brooming the marble palace that has no actual dust. Even this is in Krsna book.

 

Then Narada said, "And you cannot be married to Narayana." And she was like, "Ulp. I don't know if I can do that."

 

Then Narada continued, "And you must be married to one of Krsna's friends, some gopa. You cannot be married to Krsna." Then she was like, "No! No! That is impossible!"

 

Narada said, "Then that is why you must remain in Vaikuntha, you cannot go to Braja."

 

So I find it very hard to believe that Laxmidevi, and "no other than Laxmidevi" would agree to ride donkey and stay in animal barn and be married to some mortal human Joseph. Or are you telling me that Laxmidevi the Goddess of Fortune does eventually dump Narayana for some Jewish human being? I find that very hard to believe.

 

It doesn't go with the siddhanta that Laksmi never leaves Vaikuntha.

[krishnadasa 0]

 

There are Hindu forums on Audarya Fellowship if all you want to think about or discuss is Hinduism. This forum is called Spiritual Discussions. Do you think spirituality is only found in a Hindu context?

 

Anyway I believe this thread was started here by someone who identifies as Hindu.

 

Show me a single word showing anything spiritual in that some controversial dealings of mary's story.. He he make your facts straight before writing anything... If you say this forum is spiritual then for your kind info (indeed I dont need to tell this ) for us spiritual only that deals with Krishna and his pasttimes or atleast the spirit soul.. not some mary story which doesnt say anything about Krishna:rolleyes: ...I am certainely an OWL which measures properly before writing here anyhting ... nothing like the good sighted blind men:eek: ....

 

hari hari bol

[krishnadasa 0]

 

Krishnadasa's signature

 

 

 

Because we are not owls. If everyone stops speaking then there is nothing to hear.

 

Yes yes you were not OWls,, you are OVER-SIGHTED blind men/or some other creature:smash: ,,, get one identity first then come on i will speak to you,,,,, without the identity nothig has significance... probably one cant even tell whether its an OWL or something wierd....

 

Hari hari bol

[krishnadasa 0]

 

You missed it bro.

 

No comment ,,, that cant be from a Vaishnawa's mouth ;;or not? kindly make it clear

 

hari hari bol

[krishnadasa 0]

 

Dear Guest, please understand that I am not part of Iskcon. I posted the concise truth of the matter by quoting Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. You should use the link and go read Vaisnavism Real and Apparent and forget about your wikipedia.

 

As far as some school in the UK that has Hindu in it's name it is probably being paid for by the Hindu community. Who knows and who cares.

 

There is no animosity to Hindus from Vaisnava's or for any other religion for that matter.

 

I am sure you would accept Adi Sankara as a Hindu...but is he a Vaisnava? Are polytheists worshipping Ganesha for a prosperous life Vaisnava's?

 

Cobras are worhipped as they have thier lord as Adi-shesha,the gretest of the devotees, on which the Lord Visnu sits... If you are from India you would know this else I dont expect you to anyways....

 

Hari hari bol

[Guruvani 0]

I don't think that the Mary topic or Christianity itself is at all "spiritual".

All that stuff is just some kind of sentimental faith.

Spirituality is a science.

It's not just stories and faith and sentiments.

 

There is no science in Christianity.

It's just about "fatih", but faith is just the first step in spirituality.

If you don't get beyond faith to the science of consciousness, then it is not spirituality.

 

Kali-yuga started about 5000 years ago and the Yuga-Dharma is the chanting of the Holy Name.

Jesus manufactured some faith system, but there was no science.

 

Personally, I don't see how Jesus has any connection with the Yuga-dharma that is mentioned in Vedic scriptures.

 

In this age "there is no other way" than the Maha-mantra.

Everything else is a waste of time.

 

Many Christians are just going to become beef cattle or hogs or chickens in their next life.

Their faith in Jesus will not save them from the Yamadutas.

[krishnadasa 0]

 

I don't think that the Mary topic or Christianity itself is at all "spiritual".

All that stuff is just some kind of sentimental faith.

Spirituality is a science.

It's not just stories and faith and sentiments.

 

There is no science in Christianity.

It's just about "fatih", but faith is just the first step in spirituality.

If you don't get beyond faith to the science of consciousness, then it is not spirituality.

 

Kali-yuga started about 5000 years ago and the Yuga-Dharma is the chanting of the Holy Name.

Jesus manufactured some faith system, but there was no science.

 

Personally, I don't see how Jesus has any connection with the Yuga-dharma that is mentioned in Vedic scriptures.

 

In this age "there is no other way" than the Maha-mantra.

Everything else is a waste of time.

 

Many Christians are just going to become beef cattle or hogs or chickens in their next life.

Their faith in Jesus will not save them from the Yamadutas.

 

Yes I agree with you on this,, except that I cant say where they go after their death ,, if at all Jesus save them,,, as I have never read a page in Bible

 

hari hari bol

[theist 1]

Guruvani, remember this is Srila Prabhupada writing.

 

"Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. Nobody can say the Bible was meant for the same class of men as the Bhagavad-gita. And Bhagavad-gita is the ABC's of spiritual knowledge. Beyond that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. How great Srimad-Bhagavatam is nobody can imagine. And beyond that is Caitanya Caritamrta. But beginning from the Bible or Koran, on up the principle remains the same. Just like beginning from the pocket dictionary, up..." letter to Sivananda april 1968

[Guruvani 0]

 

Guruvani, remember this is Srila Prabhupada writing.

 

"Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. Nobody can say the Bible was meant for the same class of men as the Bhagavad-gita. And Bhagavad-gita is the ABC's of spiritual knowledge. Beyond that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. How great Srimad-Bhagavatam is nobody can imagine. And beyond that is Caitanya Caritamrta. But beginning from the Bible or Koran, on up the principle remains the same. Just like beginning from the pocket dictionary, up..." letter to Sivananda april 1968

 

All that talk was just trickery to get these foolish Christian sentimentalists to think they have some connection with Krishna consciousness.

 

None of it was actually true.

It was transcendental fraud on the part of Srila Prabhupada who was very tricky to get souls to accept Krishna consciousness.

 

I don't buy a word of it.

It is not in the books.

It's just some letter that was meant for one person to read.

 

In the books all these cheating religions are exposed.

 

Please forgive me my brothers, but I have no sentiments about Jesus or Christianity.

I think modern Christianity is just bigotry and fraud.

[Guest guest]

I remember when this happened on the Vaisnava Council forum. Someone used to help moderate it but he kept insisting on controversial things about siddhanta. Finally they got a new co-moderator and she asked the person to share the source of their controversial claims that Jesus was really so-ans-so in Hinduism. Finally he broke down and said, "It was so-and-so guru". Then the moderator said that so-and-so guru is not even a part of ISKCON and hasn't been since specific year [decades ago]. So then a certain someone got banned from Vaisnava Council forum for misleading people away from what they considered at Vaisnava Council to be pure Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta and for making these same wild sort of claims as to who people in Christianity "really" are in Brahma Madhava sampradaya Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

[Guest guest]

I quit vc because of all the drivel and negative preaching. I didnt get banned, I was the moderator.

 

I speak of mary outside the constraints of religion. Why all this catholic stuff. You never read the pearl, otherwise, you would see that I made this distinction.

 

Congratulations, theist, you have stated Prabhupadas case clearly. He spoke absolute truth, not some trickery to get the christians to follow him. He was not even after followers, per se, he was only into giving vaisnava ideals to the people in general.

 

Alsoi, if one reads my articles dealing with Lord Jesus Christ, i clearly side with those who choose not to hear. I write only for those who want to hear, and have not made up false theology. But some will make war out of any6thing, enmired in the clutches of party spirit madness, the killer of self realization.

 

I dont give a hoot about hindus (a muslim word, BTW,made up by the conquerers), chriustians, jews, muslims. They can and will all kill each other in the phony quest for religious perfection.

 

However, Lord Krsna tells arjuna to give up ALL VARIETIES of religion, and just surrender to Him.. Jesus Says the same thing about the roman in Capurnaum, said he had not witnessed such faith in all of judea (which may include even his disciples, the jews, the priests, etc). Devotees like to hear about devotional service, not some hinduism or islam or catholicism. I write about Mary because of her devotion to the Supreme Father.

 

Maybe Ill write about heile salaissie next. Or mother theresa, or Thomas Merton or ambrose or jerome or Padre Pio. Or how about cintamani. Or that Muslim, haridas thakur. He wasnt a hindu, either, but Lord Chaitanya worshipped him, served his every whim with rapt attention.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

I cant fathom why someone would try to convey that prabhupada taught falsely to gain disciples, Im surprised at you. Maybe its insanity for making offense to mary.