Guruvani 0 Report post Posted December 11, 2006 You find inspiration from your lot (the ritviks), that's fine. To each, his own. Those that find inspiration in ISKCON guru's and for that matter, guru's from other institutions, will approach them for inspiration and to see shelter. You just stay out of that as it ain't your business. Simple logic, can't be too difficult to comprehend. I'll take that as an admission of defeat in the recent debate on this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2006 Why didn't Tamal, Satsvarupa and the gang ever ask Srila Prabhupada about what their positions as gurus would be in relationship to the GBC? The above replies weren't me. Srila Prabhupada made it clear in his will that the GBC would be authority. If he wanted the Guru's to be the authority, he would have had there names there instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guruvani 0 Report post Posted December 11, 2006 The above replies weren't me. Srila Prabhupada made it clear in his will that the GBC would be authority. If he wanted the Guru's to be the authority, he would have had there names there instead. But, in ISKCON all we have is puppy dog gurus who all have to stand in line to get a bone from the GBC before they can be "ISKCON gurus". Srila Prabhupada made it clear in his books that a spiritual master should not be subjected to the advice of godbrothers, even if they are a committee. The GBC in ISKCON is in authority OVER these so-called gurus.] The fact that they submit to such bureaucratic authority is proof enough that they are not true gurus, rather career gurus loitering around ISKCON because they don't have the strength or ability to accomplish anything on their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2006 Even Prabhupada showed by example that one should submit to the GBC (I don't have the quote here, but it's in the lilamrta, where he is talking to his GBC men regarding families in temples). As far as I can see regarding "rubber stamping gurus" etc, it's not that someone is not Guru until the GBC gives them the OK, but rather they are not an official ISKCON guru. The GBC is there to check that the 'gurus' aren't bogus, are following Srila Prabhupada's teachings etc. If someone gets declined, they are of course free to be a non-ISKCON guru. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guruvani 0 Report post Posted December 11, 2006 The GBC is there to check that the 'gurus' aren't bogus, are following Srila Prabhupada's teachings etc. If someone gets declined, they are of course free to be a non-ISKCON guru. Srila Prabhupada never gave the GBC authority of oversight of gurus in ISKCON. In fact, the issue was never discussed back then because everyone knew well that Srila Prabhupada was leaving ISKCON with a ritvik system. If in fact the GBC was to have oversight over regulating gurus, then he would have mentioned some guidelines and the subject of how the GBC would regulate gurus would havebeen discussed between Srila Prabhupada and the GBC. There is not a single word on record of the GBC inquiring from Srila Prabhupada as to how they would regulate gurus in ISKCON, because everybody knew back then that Srila Prabhupada was leaving ISKCON with a ritvik system and instructions that it should continue after his passing. Srila Prabhupada said "don't change anything after I am gone". He didn't say "well you can change the ritvik system, that is ok". Don't change anything! That was that instructions of Srila Prabhupada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hari Bhakta dasa 0 Report post Posted December 11, 2006 Even Prabhupada showed by example that one should submit to the GBC (I don't have the quote here, but it's in the lilamrta, where he is talking to his GBC men regarding families in temples). As far as I can see regarding "rubber stamping gurus" etc, it's not that someone is not Guru until the GBC gives them the OK, but rather they are not an official ISKCON guru. The GBC is there to check that the 'gurus' aren't bogus, are following Srila Prabhupada's teachings etc. If someone gets declined, they are of course free to be a non-ISKCON guru. The Lilamrta is not a proper source of reference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2006 Srila Prabhupada never gave the GBC authority of oversight of gurus in ISKCON. The need for specifics isn't required when he said that they are the ultimate authority. Anyway, feel free to rebuttal or call this my defeat, but i'm not going to continue with this discussion as we both know that they lead absolutely nowhere, no matter the result. It was enlivening however, thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2006 The Lilamrta is not a proper source of reference. Thanks for that. I'm sure the same talk, as quoted in the lilamrta, was recorded and is in the folio. I don't have access to either resource at the moment so I can't quote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2006 I would rather that than carry on endlessly with someone that won't accept the teachings of Sastras because it will defeat his purpose. I'll take that as an admission of defeat in the recent debate on this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guruvani 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2006 The need for specifics isn't required when he said that they are the ultimate authority. NO. The GBC was the ultimate MANAGING AUTHORITY, not the ultimate authority. The matters of who gives diksha and who doesn't is way out of the range of GBC authority. That is a matter of faith between Vaishnavas and the GBC has NO right or authority to intrude into that issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
