duryodhan and the kali demon

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am curious as to know if this is true. Was duryodhan in the mahabharat really an incarnation of the Kali demon? Thus when he died, the demon came out his body and began the Kali yuga i.e his death marked the begining of the Kali yuga after duryodhan died and beat the cow that king pariskshit saw?

 

Is this Kali demon the eternal enemy of Vishnu? In all yugas? and days of brahma? Are demons a soul 2?

[AncientMariner 0]

Seems like in Vedic literature the demons are usually devotees that got busted for committing some kind of offense in the spiritual world and they are forced to come to earth to play the part of an adversary of the Lord. Eventually they go back to there original postion in the spiritual world I think.

[Guest guest]

 

Hi, I am curious as to know if this is true. Was duryodhan in the mahabharat really an incarnation of the Kali demon? Thus when he died, the demon came out his body and began the Kali yuga i.e his death marked the begining of the Kali yuga after duryodhan died and beat the cow that king pariskshit saw?

 

Is this Kali demon the eternal enemy of Vishnu? In all yugas? and days of brahma? Are demons a soul 2?

 

Demons are souls filled with Tamasa. DDuryodhan will remain eternally a demon and a foe of Sriman Narayana. They (Duryodhan,Dushasana Kichaka etc) will remain in some intermediate hell until the end of the Kaliyuga after which they will go to the hell called Andha Tamas which is eternal

[Gaea 0]

 

Demons are souls filled with Tamasa.

 

i thought the three modes of material nature cannot touch the soul. and i thought there was no such thing as an eternal hell?? what happened to everyone coming back to Krsna?

[Guest guest]

Duryodhana was ACTING in the role of demon, and had many characteristics of the three modes of material nature. However, he was also engaged in a particular rasa with the supreme lord.

 

One must realize that duryodhana was very friendly with Lord Balarama, had a relationship with him nearly as close as Arjuna with Krsna.

 

Souls are never filled with tamasa, they are pure spirit. In the condition of forgetfulness of eternal position, tamasa may have temporary predominance. The idea of Eternal hell is a westrern idea, has no basis, and is rather atheistic. Such "belief" means that one accepts that Lord Narayana has a competitor, an enemy, which is quite contrary to the actual definition of the Supreme Lord. This false idea means that Narayana is not Supreme, that anger rules him, that he is defensive to the point of never granting access to particular folks full of tamasa.

 

Shastra confirems that many great demons, like kamsa, hiranyaksa, hiranyakasipu, ravana, were actually demons only for the purpose of adventure. These demons were, in actuality, liberated souls from the Spiritual realm (Jaya and Vijaya). Krsna has nothing to do with those filled with tamasa, so if he wants to vanquish someone, he will cause his unalloyed servants to take birth as his enemy, to play as he always does. Tamasa means Ignorance, therefore, a person in tamasa has no contact with Krsna is any way, shape, or form.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

You are thoroughly misguided! God(Sriman Narayana) and the Jivas(souls) have been existing eternally It is like a person wearing a shirt. The shirt and the wearer are always different. In a similar manner, God and the souls are eternally different. God is the controller and the Souls(Jiva) is the controlled.

 

Swabhava plays a crucial role here and no two entities are the same. A pig

will always like to stay in a pigsty and the lion will always like to stay in a cave. The two can never switch their abodes. A pig will not feel comfortable in a cave nor a lion in a pigsty.

 

In the same way, souls are higher and lower. There are low beings who like to do evil acts,not because they are deluded but because that is their natural state and they feel comfortable doing what they do. Pious souls like to do good and that cannot be changed . True,even pious people may commit sins ,but essentially they are good. Please dont tell me that Osama, George Bush, and grear souls like Ramana Maharishi, Aurobindo are the same

 

 

There is evolution of the soul but only laterally. The Sattvic become more satvvic with every birth.The Rajasic become more Rajasic and the Tamasic become more Tamasic. This is thr truth as stated in the Vedas.

 

 

Eventually,liberation(Moksha) is a condition where the three classes of souls reach their natural state when they have evolved fully and are not capable of evolving anymore.

 

As I said earlier Duryodhan will never feel comfortable in Vaikuntha nor will

Karna be comfortable in Tamasa. because Duryodhan is by nature a Tamasic soul and Karna a satvvic soul though he was duty bound to fight against the Pandavas,thanks to the cruel Duryodhana.

 

Please read the passage in Bhagavad Gita where the Supreme Lord Krishna himself states " O Arjuna there are some souls which are wicked and deluded Never attaining me, I throw them birth after birth into Asuric wombs"

 

This is stated clearly by Lord Krishna and so no further proof is needed.The

ridiculous theory that all souls reach Vaikuntha maybe pleasing to the ears but it is just a pipe dream nothing else.

[Gaea 0]

 

There is evolution of the soul but only laterally. The Sattvic become more satvvic with every birth.The Rajasic become more Rajasic and the Tamasic become more Tamasic. This is thr truth as stated in the Vedas.

 

 

I don't want to contradict you without knowing all the facts so i'm gonna ask... prove it. Where in the Vedas or in the writings of learned souls has this been confirmed?

[Guest guest]

Please check BG 16.20 "Asuriim yOnim...."

 

The Lord clearly states that some souls are demonic, and they'll forever take birth amongst lower species for the purpose of sadhana. Once the sadhana is over, they will reach what He calls "adhamAm gatim", LOWEST DESTINATION.

 

There is no question of Vaikuntha for demonic souls, because it's their very swabhava to be haters of Lord, His devotees, and Dharma. Swabhava determines sadhana and sadhana determines your eventual destination.

[Gaea 0]

 

Please check BG 16.20 "Asuriim yOnim...."

 

The Lord clearly states that some souls are demonic, and they'll forever take birth amongst lower species for the purpose of sadhana. Once the sadhana is over, they will reach what He calls "adhamAm gatim", LOWEST DESTINATION.

 

There is no question of Vaikuntha for demonic souls, because it's their very swabhava to be haters of Lord, His devotees, and Dharma. Swabhava determines sadhana and sadhana determines your eventual destination.

 

Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.

 

That just means that so long as a person revels in demoniac activity he/she can never reach Godhead and they continue to shrink down. That does not mean eternal hell, as Prabhpada alludes to in his purport for this verse:

 

The placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of His mercy. Sometimes the asuras are killed by the Supreme Lord, but this killing is also good for them, for in Vedic literature we find that anyone who is killed by the Supreme Lord becomes liberated. There are instances in history of many asuras--Ravana, Kamsa, Hiranyakasipu--to whom the Lord appeared in various incarnations just to kill them. Therefore God's mercy is shown to the asuras if they are fortunate enough to be killed by Him.

[Guest guest]

That just means that so long as a person revels in demoniac activity***

 

This is an effect, and the cause is swabhava, which is different for every jiva, or we'll be thinking, acting in the exact same manner. Swabhava doesn't change, ever. If it does, it's tantamount to saying the soul is changing, which contradicts the Lord's statement that the soul is anadi nitya.

 

The placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of His mercy.***

 

Etc. etc. All this is sentimental stuff with little meaning. Asuras are asuras by nature, and NOT due to actions. Asuric actions follow asuric nature, or asuric actions will have no base to exist at all. And the Lord punishes such asuras birth after birth, finally sending them to andha tamas.

 

That's why in BG 16.18, we find "tato yAnty adhamAm gatim." tato, meaning afterwards, which is extremely significant, because it refers to the state AFTER "mudha janmani janmani" (fools birth after birth). So it's got to be permanent, NOT temporary. Or, the word 'tato' would be superfluous.

[Gaea 0]

 

This is an effect, and the cause is swabhava, which is different for every jiva, or we'll be thinking, acting in the exact same manner. Swabhava doesn't change, ever. If it does, it's tantamount to saying the soul is changing, which contradicts the Lord's statement that the soul is anadi nitya.

 

 

Again i have to say - prove it. Krsna is not saying anything about swabhava here so i cannot accept your argument readily - apologies, i may be missing something.

 

 

The placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of His mercy.***

 

Etc. etc. All this is sentimental stuff with little meaning. Asuras are asuras by nature, and NOT due to actions. Asuric actions follow asuric nature, or asuric actions will have no base to exist at all. And the Lord punishes such asuras birth after birth, finally sending them to andha tamas.

 

That's why in BG 16.18, we find "tato yAnty adhamAm gatim." tato, meaning afterwards, which is extremely significant, because it refers to the state AFTER "mudha janmani janmani" (fools birth after birth). So it's got to be permanent, NOT temporary. Or, the word 'tato' would be superfluous.

 

Firstly, we cannot deride Prabhupada's commentary as just sentimental - even though I have not accepted Him or His mission personally I have to say that He has not ever wasted a single word in these commentaries. We have to take each word seriously.

 

Secondly, your argument of tato is weak - I can just as easily say that Krsna is talking about persons who, birth after birth, do not accept Him - that does not mean eternity - it means a long time (birth after birth). Where is there any concept of eternal hell or Tamasic souls? Again, there are many verses we can point to say that the soul is part and parcel of Krsna - so are parts of Krsna Tamasic also (even though He says He is absolutely beyond the Gunas, which are part of NATURE)

 

And that is another point - the Gunas are translated as modes of material nature - how then does this extend to the soul, which is beyond material creation?

[Guest guest]

Again i have to say - prove it. Krsna is not saying anything about swabhava here so i cannot accept your argument readily - apologies, i may be missing something.****

 

Yes, you're missing BG 17.2. Swabhava has been discussed there. In BG, it's wise to read and connect every chapter, rather than focus exclusively on one verse.

 

Secondly, your argument of tato is weak - I can just as easily say that Krsna is talking about persons who, birth after birth, do not accept Him - that does not mean eternity****

 

Not if you have some knowledge of sanskrit. mudha janmani janmani means fools birth after birth. tato means afterwards. You cannot 'easily' say krishna means this or that without understanding what each sanskrit word means. My argument is based on the sanskrit word as it is, whereas your arguments don't take into account the meaning of these words at all.

 

Again, there are many verses we can point to say that the soul is part and parcel of Krsna - so are parts of Krsna Tamasic also (even though He says He is absolutely beyond the Gunas, which are part of NATURE)****

 

If you know the difference between swarupamsa and bhinnamsa, then you'll understand this better. If you can't, that's hardly my problem.

 

And that is another point - the Gunas are translated as modes of material nature - how then does this extend to the soul, which is beyond material creation?*****

 

We are not talking gunas but swabhava, which is the SOUL itself. They are not distinct. It's like mango and mangoness.

[Gaea 0]

 

Yes, you're missing BG 17.2. Swabhava has been discussed there. In BG, it's wise to read and connect every chapter, rather than focus exclusively on one verse.

 

 

I'm trying. BG 17.2:

The Supreme Lord said, according to the modes of nature acquired by the embodied soul, one's faith can be of three kinds--goodness, passion or ignorance. Now hear about these.

Hence the guna is ACQUIRED - not part of the soul. Of course the soul is eternal - if it aquires something it means that it got it at some point in time. Therefore it is not eternal, i.e. part of the material creation.

 

 

Not if you have some knowledge of sanskrit. mudha janmani janmani means fools birth after birth. tato means afterwards. You cannot 'easily' say krishna means this or that without understanding what each sanskrit word means. My argument is based on the sanskrit word as it is, whereas your arguments don't take into account the meaning of these words at all.

 

 

I think they do but hey, you know more sanskrit than me. Just bacause tato means afterwards, taking the sentence as a whole along with Prabhupada's commentary i cannot see how one can conclude that a soul is eternally damned to hell or eternall tagged with a guna. Surely if this was the case, Krsna would have said so explcitly? Actually I can apply your advice of connecting the chapters of BG up see: BG 14,5:Material nature consists of the three modes--goodness, passion and ignorance. When the living entity comes in contact with nature, he becomes conditioned by these modes. And so, by simple logic, when he is outside of nature he is not conditioned by the gunas.

 

 

If you know the difference between swarupamsa and bhinnamsa, then you'll understand this better. If you can't, that's hardly my problem.

 

 

No i don't know what the words mean - but there's no need to have an attitude about it. I think you will find you have made it your problem by arguing your point on this thread - that's the whole point of the forum. So please, enlighten me.

 

 

We are not talking gunas but swabhava, which is the SOUL itself. They are not distinct. It's like mango and mangoness.

 

And you get this from the one or two verses you pointed out? I don't buy it yet. Convince me. When has swabhava been equated to the quality of the soul?

[Beggar 0]

 

Please check BG 16.20 "Asuriim yOnim...."

 

The Lord clearly states that some souls are demonic, and they'll forever take birth amongst lower species for the purpose of sadhana. Once the sadhana is over, they will reach what He calls "adhamAm gatim", LOWEST DESTINATION.

 

There is no question of Vaikuntha for demonic souls, because it's their very swabhava to be haters of Lord, His devotees, and Dharma. Swabhava determines sadhana and sadhana determines your eventual destination.

From the external viewpoint what your saying has some relative truth. But the Bhagavatam deals with the Absolute Truth and it is meant for those who are nirmatsaranam, completely pure and honest. After Srila Vyasadeva compiled the Vedas and many supplementary sastras he felt depressed and unfulfilled. Then Narada came to him and explained that he had not properly glorified the All Good Personality of Godhead. After that Vyasadeva manifested the Srimad Bhagavatam. In the Bhagavatam we find that the biggest asuras of all are actually Jaya and Vijaya who were the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha. We find this theme woven throughout the Bhagavatam that the asuras can actually be covered devotees or become devotees of Bhagavan. And what was the basis of the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

<center> aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam

ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena va kalpita

srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan

sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradarah na parah </center>

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, the son of Nanda Maharaja, is worshipped along with His transcendental abode Vrndavana. The most pleasing form of worship for the Lord is that which was performed by the

gopis

of Vrndavana.

Srimad Bhagavatam

is the spotless authority on everything and pure love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life for all men. These statements, for which we have the highest regard, are the opinion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (

Caitanya-matta-manjusa

by Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura)

 

Srimad Bhagavatam is the spotless authority on everything and pure love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life for all men.

So note that here it is stated, "Srimad Bhagavatam is the spotless authority on everything and pure love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life for all men." (means men, women etc.)

Are you aware of the pastime in Gaura lila where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu delivers, with the assistance of Sri Nityananda Prabhu and Srila Haridas Thakur? Here is a synopsis of this pastime emphasizing the mercy of Sri Nityananda Prabhu. It is written by Sripad Indradyumna Maharaja:

 

Deliverance of Jagai-Madhai

Five hundred years ago, Sri Krishna descended as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in His most merciful incarnation, to deliver the fallen souls of Kali yuga. Principal amongst His associates was Lord Nityananda, Who was none other than Lord Balarama, the incarnation of Anata-sesa. Even though Caitanya Mahaprabhu distributed the love of Godhead freely to any one willing to partake, Lord Nityananda was more merciful and gave His mercy even to unwilling, sinful and atheistic people.

 

 

Jagai and Madhai

One day Lord Caitanya instructed Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakur to go to every one's house in Nadiya and request them to chant Krishna"s name. The two great devotees eagerly set forth and began to knock on each and every door with the request, "please chant Krishna"s name, worship Krishna and teach others about Krishna." They were happily received by the pious people, while the envious would blaspheme them. Completely unconcerned by favorable or unfavorable reactions they proceeded around the town.

 

 

In Nadiya there lived two very sinful brothers called Jagai and Madhai. Though they born in pious Brahman families, by bad association they had become meat eaters, drunkards, thieves and arsonists. There was no crime that they had not committed, including the most abominable sin of killing cows and Brahmans. The entire town was terrified of these two persons who seemed to be the very personification of all sinful activities.

 

 

On the day Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakur were moving in the town, these two brothers, completely intoxicated were alternatively fighting and embracing each other. After observing them for some time Nityananda Prabhu compassionately decided to deliver them and thus approached them.

 

 

Despite the warnings of the town people Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, approached the two drunkards instructing them to chant the holy name of the Lord. Hearing these words the two sinners looked up and seeing the two saintly figures roared in anger. They leapt up and ran to catch the two sannyasis. Playing their pastimes, the two devotees fled at the sight of the attacking brothers. Apparently terrified they shouted, "Krishna! Save us!! Govinda!," and ran.

 

 

Haridasa complains about Nityananda Prabhu

While running, Haridasa Thakur proclaimed that all this trouble was because he was in the company of a trouble maker, a charge that Nityananda Prabhu hotly denied. In this way, pursued by the cursing Jagai-Madhai, Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, laughed and ran. They finally disappeared into the home Srivasa Acarya, leaving the bewildered brothers searching for them in vain.

 

 

The pastimes of these exalted devotees are full of sugar and spice. While they all understood each others exalted positions, they would also have many loving and teasing exchanges. This was specially true for Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Acarya. In this mood, Haridasa went to Advaita Prabhu to complain about Lord Nityananda. He recounted how in the past Nityananda Prabhu would calmly swim the waters infested with crocodiles, or how he would milk other's cows and drink the milk, or steal their butter and yogurt leaving Haridasa to face the angry crowd. When Advaita Prabhu heard about the pastime with the two drunkards, He laughed and commented, "it is all right that these three drunkards should stay together." However in their hearts they knew that Nityananda Prabhu was only intoxicated by the love of Godhead and that Jagai-Madhai were already delivered by His mercy.

 

 

Nityananda Prabhu attacked

In the meantime the two brothers began to reside near Ganga where Caitanya Mahaprabhu bathed. Constantly drunk, they started harassing and terrorizing the devotees. At night, they could hear the sounds of the kirtans coming from the house of Srivasa Acarya and would playfully sing and dance with the melody.

 

 

One day while Nityananda Prabhu was returning in the dark He was accosted by the two brothers. On learning His identity, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother. While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation,

people ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.

 

 

Hearing that Nityananda Prabhu had been hurt by the brothers, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.

 

 

Jagai-Madhai delivered

Nityananda Prabhu told Caitanya Mahaprabhu that it was Jagai who had saved Him from further harm at Madhai's hand. Hearing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Jagai, "Lord Krishna be merciful to you. By protecting Nityananda you have purchased Me. You may ask any desire you have in your heart. From today on you will have pure love and devotion for Krishna" Hearing this Jagai fell at the feet of the two Lords and grasping the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu wept.

 

 

Seeing the wonderful transformation in his brother, a remorseful Madhai begged for the mercy of the Lord. However, since he had committed the worst of all offenses, that of attacking a Vaishnava, the Lord did not even consider all his pitiful pleas for mercy. Only after Madhai grasped the feet of Nityananda Prabhu and received His mercy that Caitanya Mahaprabhu agree to deliver Madhai also.

 

 

Jagai-Madhai become devotees

Having received the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda, both the brothers became completely transformed. They would chant 200,000 names of the Lord every day, offer every one humble obeisances and constantly berate themselves for their past sinful activities. Madhai in particular was very remorseful at the fact that he had caused physical harm to Nityananda Prabhu and would shed many tears for this. Finally he approached the Lord and begged for some act of atonement. The compassionate Lord assured him that he was completely forgiven, but if he wanted to atone for his other past sins then he could build a bathing place on the banks of the river Ganges to help people take a bath.

 

 

Madhai enthusiastically built this place which still exists with the name of Madhai ghata. He would constantly be present there, humbly offering any and all services to devotees. In this way the two brothers spent the rest of their lives singing the glories of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu.

 

 

The demigods rejoice

It is said that when Yamaraja asked Chitragupta, the demigod responsible for recording the sinful activities of people, how many sins had been committed by Jagai-Madhai, he was told that it would take one hundred thousand scribes one month to complete the record. On seeing Lord Caitanya take all these sinful activities into Himself and deliver Jagai-Madhai, Yamaraja fainted with ecstasy. When he was revived, he began to dance, glorifying the Lord for delivering the most fallen. Attracted by his dancing, Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma, Narada Muni, Sukhadeva Goswami, Indra and other demigods also began to dance in ecstasy at the mercy of the Lord. In this way the heavenly planets, all the way to Brahmaloka became completely immersed in the love of Godhead.

 

 

Lessons in this pastime

In this pastime the Lords revealed many instructions for future generations to follow.

 

 

While Jagai-Madhai had committed many sinful activities, they had never offended a Vaishnava. Since Jagai had protected Nityananda Prabhu, Lord Caitanya immediately absolved him of all sinful activities and gave him Krishna prema. However since Madhai hit Nityananda Prabhu, he did not receive this mercy until he was forgiven by Nityananda Prabhu. This is in line with a lesson that Caitanya Mahaprabhu repeatedly gave to His followers that while Krishna can overlook offenses committed against Him, He will take any offense against His devotee very seriously.

 

 

In fact while Caitanya Mahaprabhu readily gave the boon of devotion to Jagai, He had previously refused to give the same gift to His beloved mother, Saci Mata, because of a slight offense she had made against Advaita Acarya. Only when she begged and received the forgiveness of Advaita did she became eligible to receive this gift.

 

 

The Lord also revealed that there are no material restrictions to performing devotional service. Even though Jagai-Madhai were performing the most abominable activities, even though they were unwilling to chant the holy name, they were still delivered. The pastime also revealed that the devotees of the Lord are even more merciful than the Lord Himself. While Lord Caitanya would ignore these two brothers and had nothing to do with them, Nityananda Prabhu still approached them and ultimately delivered them.

 

 

The personality of Nityananda Prabhu is most bewildering by material conception. He played the role of an avadhut, one who is completely beyond the material conception of life. So saturated was He with the love of Godhead that He would often loose complete consciousness of His material body and behave in strange ways. However Caitanya Mahaprabhu strongly cautioned about committing any offenses against Him. He emphatically stated that no one can even think of approaching Radha-Krishna without having first received the mercy of Lord Nityananda, the adi-guru or the original spiritual master of the universe.

 

[Bishadi 0]

 

Hi, I am curious as to know if this is true. Was duryodhan in the mahabharat really an incarnation of the Kali demon? Thus when he died, the demon came out his body and began the Kali yuga i.e his death marked the begining of the Kali yuga after duryodhan died and beat the cow that king pariskshit saw?

 

Is this Kali demon the eternal enemy of Vishnu? In all yugas? and days of brahma? Are demons a soul 2?

 

Vishnu is God the ‘total’, correct? Or can you just humor me on this for my little bit here.

Yugas are periods described even before and after they occurred, correct?

And a ‘sole’ is a transcending or continued existence, correct?

Laugh at me I don’t care, but give me a shot here please….

If a person is of the “total” with the unique ability to make a difference within a period and has choice, then to be properly observant any action would either be supportive of continued quality life or would isolate themselves within individual purpose irregardless to any other. Basically live either good or bad. (oops I gave the answer to another question)

So let’s examine the idea within this … IF during a period of selfishness among men, Kali Yuga, our species began to take, being isolated from observance causing destructive residual to the collective, (enemy of the total) which will be left as a toxin until diluted and not further apparent, (dies) but the physical ‘demon’ are what lives within the residual both physically and psychologically as we are of consciousness; knowing, but the demon does not live of ‘choice’ unless within man. The nasty lives by need to continue as anything of energy does but choice is only of our species hence why we will overcome the left residual of ‘kali yuga.’

A sole is also what is left upon the period we exist within. Either it is of good or it is not it is only upon these bags of bones are we (the sole) able to experience but what ‘splash’ we make is our mortality and now we choose what we become.

[Guest guest]

Chosen people? 144,000, and the rest are firewood?

 

No! Narayana is not a tribal god or captain of some UFO. He is present in the heart of even the most abominable person. The reason he sits there as localized Paramatma is because at any time, any being can return to his eternal position. Hiranyakasipu is eternally the doorman for Lord Narayana, but because he is subserviant fully, he may appear to ACT in the Great Nrsimhadeva Adventure.

 

This JW consciousness (sorry, some of my best friends are Jehova Witnesses) of exclusiveness is most demoniac, is at the heart of materialistic religiosity (genocide ignition), and thoroughly rejected by authorities from Jesus Christ (see Capournam Pastime) to Srila Prabhupada (see "Even a dog can take part").

 

If Duryodhana had no qualities, why did he reject the action of Aswattama, the slaughter of sleeping children of his enemy? Also, if duryodhana did not become mortal enemies of the Pandavas, where would the teachings of Bhagavad Gita take place?

 

Adverse rasas of dread, chivalry, etc, are nicely discussed in the Nectar of Devotion, Srila Prabhupadas masterpiece.

 

But, alas, some want God to be their servant, and damn all those in the other camp. But God dont damn for me or you, he simply allows us to damn ourselves, which is what tamasa is all about.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa