Guest guest Report post Posted August 8, 2006 > > Do let me have the groups opinion on how we can come out of this debt > trap. > > B.Venugopal ------This may sound irreverent but it's the truth. We are are in debt to death, and there is no coming out of that trap! You must maintain relativitity about material concerns as there is not a human alive who feels that their life is perfect. However, there are humans who have learned the wisdom to keep happy through the especially bad times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2006 Dear Group Members, my parents are ardent devotees of mother lalithambika. Their day begins with the Lalitha sahasranama parayana and this has been regularly followed since past 15 years. Kumkumarchana is being done to the SriChakra every day. Presently we are in a serious debt trap which is making us worry a lot. It is said that if you are a devotee of mother every thing is taken care of. We still have faith in Mother but we introspect whether any dosha is there in our Srichakra Puja because of which we are facing this problem. When i raise this issue my mother brushes it aside saying that your attitude and bhavana is more important than the rituals. Do let me have the groups opinion on how we can come out of this debt trap. B.Venugopal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2006 *** When i raise this issue my mother brushes it aside saying that your attitude and bhavana is more important than the rituals. *** Your mother is quite right, you know. But I will pray for you and bring the situation to the attention of some who might be able to help. aim mAtangyai namaH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2006 Dear Sir, I have started chanting the Lalita Sahasranamam only recently but within a short time I have had several experiences which seem to indicate that the mother is always with me guiding me thru the right path. Also I have reached a stage where financial matters are no more a concern for me now. So, don't feel despondent. Keep heart that the Mother is always keeping close watch over you. Sometimes we have certain prarabdha karma which, no amount of Japa or Puja would eradicate completely. There will be some amount of our prarabdha karma which needs to be borne by us. Take courage, bear the prarabdha karma, and continue to chant the Holy Mother's names with devotion. Also, try to ponder over the meanings of the divine names as you chant. That would elevate your mind to a higher Spiritual level. Along with Lalita Sahasranamam, I would suggest that you chant the holy Kanakadhaara Stotram also every day morning. I have heard of many people who were financially benefited by regular chanting of this stotram. Regards Hari Posted by: "Buram Venugopal" <venusburam (AT) (DOT) co.in?Subject=Re:%20lalitha%20sahasranama%20parayan a> venusburam (AT) (DOT) co.in <http://profiles./venusburam> venusburam Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:23 am (PST) Dear Group Members, my parents are ardent devotees of mother lalithambika. Their day begins with the Lalitha sahasranama parayana and this has been regularly followed since past 15 years. Kumkumarchana is being done to the SriChakra every day. Presently we are in a serious debt trap which is making us worry a lot. It is said that if you are a devotee of mother every thing is taken care of. We still have faith in Mother but we introspect whether any dosha is there in our Srichakra Puja because of which we are facing this problem. When i raise this issue my mother brushes it aside saying that your attitude and bhavana is more important than the rituals. Do let me have the groups opinion on how we can come out of this debt trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2006 > > The cosmic mother never gets annoyed by any error in rituals offered to Her. Soes any mother gets annoyed with her children whether they call her Ma, Matha or Amma.It is the faith and devotion that matters.Daily chanting of the Khadgamala Stotra and eleventh chapter of the Devi Mahatmya along with LaLitha Sahasranama shall be beneficial.Never do any harm by words or deeds to others. The rest shall be managed by the beloved Ambika. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 13, 2006 Dear divine, People believe in lalitha sahasranama and trisathi, whereas they do not believe in Phala sruthi whi ch clearly says that none should do the parayana or archana without being initiated into Panchadasi mantra by a highly competent guru who has been initiated into srividhya and had poornadiksha and peeta athikara. Kindly review our website <aavarnas.com> and also please read the attachements which can perhaps bring a good solace and divine environment. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 14, 2006 I donot know how to take this message. LS chanting did not do any harm to me. I was neither ini tiated nor understood its meaning. Even today I donot understand all but have an overall grasp of what it is about. But, I am not an authority. If shastras says so then LS books and cassette should not be made available to public freely. Everyone has ups and downs in life. Prayer gives us strength to get through those period. If the faith is intensified in tough period - it is a good sign. This is my experience. My family member's too have gone through tough period but after a while balance comes on its own. May I finally add this Pain and Pleasure in life are like two sides of the same coin - one cannot escape that. There will be a light at the end of the tunnel - if they surrender to her with open heart. raji. ... > >Dear divine, > People believe in lalitha sahasranama and trisathi, whereas they do not >believe in Phala sruthi whi ch clearly says that none should do the >parayana or archana without being initiated into Panchadasi mantra by a >highly competent guru who has been initiated into srividhya and had >poornadiksha and peeta athikara. > > Kindly review our website <aavarnas.com> and also please read the >attachements which can perhaps bring a good solace and divine environment. > > Regards, > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 14, 2006 There's an old story about a pious devotee of Ma who asked Ma why he was so poor that he had to eat from the soup line every day but could never save more than two rupees. He is praying every day for a boon, and going through the soup line. Finally one day in despair he crys out, "Ma, you never answer my prayers. I pray every day for your grace but you show me nothing!!!" Then Ma manifested, and said, "My son, but didn't you notice the extra lump of fat in your soup bowl today? You were the only person to get fat in your soup. Each day I am giving you an extra vegetable, or lump of fat, but you haven't noticed." The she said, "You have no good karma which I can make into better prosperity for you. From where can I therefore get you anything? Nonetheless, I have given you some extra tidbits in your soup. If you want to make your life better so that I may help you in the future then you must accrue some better karma. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 14, 2006 What a great story! JANARDANA DASA Llundrub <llundrub (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: There's an old story about a pious devotee of Ma who asked Ma why he was so poor that he had to eat from the soup line every day but could never save more than two rupees. He is praying every day for a boon, and going through the soup line. Finally one day in despair he crys out, "Ma, you never answer my prayers. I pray every day for your grace but you show me nothing!!!" Then Ma manifested, and said, "My son, but didn't you notice the extra lump of fat in your soup bowl today? You were the only person to get fat in your soup. Each day I am giving you an extra vegetable, or lump of fat, but you haven't noticed." The she said, "You have no good karma which I can make into better prosperity for you. From where can I therefore get you anything? Nonetheless, I have given you some extra tidbits in your soup. If you want to make your life better so that I may help you in the future then you must accrue some better karma. " Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 14, 2006 When you very badly need a guru and are not able to take cognsance of a possible Guru The Almighty SIVA is the Guru but let me not strech it too far with regards , "rajeshwari iyer" <rajii31 wrote: > > I donot know how to take this message. LS chanting did not do any harm to > me. I was neither ini > tiated nor understood its meaning. Even today I donot understand all but > have an overall grasp of what it is about. But, I am not an authority. If > shastras says so then LS books and cassette should not be made available to > public freely. > > Everyone has ups and downs in life. Prayer gives us strength to get through > those period. If the faith is intensified in tough period - it is a good > sign. This is my experience. My family member's too have gone through tough > period but after a while balance comes on its own. May I finally add this > Pain and Pleasure in life are like two sides of the same coin - one cannot > escape that. There will be a light at the end of the tunnel - if they > surrender to her with open heart. raji. > > .. > > > > > >Dear divine, > > People believe in lalitha sahasranama and trisathi, whereas they do not > >believe in Phala sruthi whi ch clearly says that none should do the > >parayana or archana without being initiated into Panchadasi mantra by a > >highly competent guru who has been initiated into srividhya and had > >poornadiksha and peeta athikara. > > > > Kindly review our website <aavarnas.com> and also please read the > >attachements which can perhaps bring a good solace and divine environment. > > > > Regards, > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 15, 2006 Sree Matre Namaha I started reciting in a group ( 10 years back) with initiation of Guru, during full mooon days and navaratris. Later it has become regular. What i feel that mother is always with me for all occassions. I happend read the greatest work on LS by Bhaskara Raya "Soubhagya Bhaskaram" and Excerpts and Brahmanda Purana where the birth of Lalita are mentioned. mother will respond to her child, what ever condition her child may be rembered. Similarly a divine mother will respond even when u pray in any condition. In a true sense our every breath should become a prayer to mother. For this u need not have have any object. What shankarabhagavatpada said in para puja Atma is shiva, budhi/ vivek is Mother / PArvati, Breath is prana pratisha, nidra is samadhi, travelling is parikrama, taking food is naivedyam. This can happen only when a person is in the process of remembering the Ishta Davam (Choice of GOD). That Ishta daivam will always with him. Sree Matre Namaha Ramana --- rajeshwari iyer <rajii31 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: > I donot know how to take this message. LS chanting > did not do any harm to > me. I was neither ini > tiated nor understood its meaning. Even today I > donot understand all but > have an overall grasp of what it is about. But, I am > not an authority. If > shastras says so then LS books and cassette should > not be made available to > public freely. > > Everyone has ups and downs in life. Prayer gives us > strength to get through > those period. If the faith is intensified in tough > period - it is a good > sign. This is my experience. My family member's too > have gone through tough > period but after a while balance comes on its own. > May I finally add this > Pain and Pleasure in life are like two sides of the > same coin - one cannot > escape that. There will be a light at the end of the > tunnel - if they > surrender to her with open heart. raji. > > .. > > > > > >Dear divine, > > People believe in lalitha sahasranama and > trisathi, whereas they do not > >believe in Phala sruthi whi ch clearly says that > none should do the > >parayana or archana without being initiated into > Panchadasi mantra by a > >highly competent guru who has been initiated into > srividhya and had > >poornadiksha and peeta athikara. > > > > Kindly review our website <aavarnas.com> and > also please read the > >attachements which can perhaps bring a good solace > and divine environment. > > > > Regards, > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > > ________ India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers./ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 15, 2006 It is to be understood that when one does not follow the dictums of the Lalitha sahasranama phalasruthi, it does not mean that he or she is punished. The fact remains that the devotee does not reap the real benefits that would otherwise accrue to him or her when she gets initiated in Panchadasi and then recite lalitha sahasranama/trisathi etc. There is no place for any compromise nor will anyone accept compromise, particularly from a true upasaka of Divine Mother. i have seen in many instances that people reciting Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own rules and regulations. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN rajeshwari iyer <rajii31 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: I donot know how to take this message. LS chanting did not do any harm to me. I was neither ini tiated nor understood its meaning. Even today I donot understand all but have an overall grasp of what it is about. But, I am not an authority. If shastras says so then LS books and cassette should not be made available to public freely. Everyone has ups and downs in life. Prayer gives us strength to get through those period. If the faith is intensified in tough period - it is a good sign. This is my experience. My family member's too have gone through tough period but after a while balance comes on its own. May I finally add this Pain and Pleasure in life are like two sides of the same coin - one cannot escape that. There will be a light at the end of the tunnel - if they surrender to her with open heart. raji. ... > >Dear divine, > People believe in lalitha sahasranama and trisathi, whereas they do not >believe in Phala sruthi whi ch clearly says that none should do the >parayana or archana without being initiated into Panchadasi mantra by a >highly competent guru who has been initiated into srividhya and had >poornadiksha and peeta athikara. > > Kindly review our website <aavarnas.com> and also please read the >attachements which can perhaps bring a good solace and divine environment. > > Regards, > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > Get your email and more, right on the new .com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 15, 2006 Dear Shangaranarayanan: I cannot help but feel that Her grace is the most important factor, not initiation or non-initiation. It is my feeling that the soul who truly and completely surrenders to Her in selfless devotion is ten times the sadhak than the one who, though fully initiated and schooled in the techniques of Srividya, practices in hopes of gaining those boons enumerated in the Phala Sruti. First let me assure you that I am not speaking from the standpoint of sour grapes. For what it is worth, I have received initiation into Srividya, and I appreciate the incredible potency of the system and technique. However, my Guru says: "When I switch on a computer, the monitor and the programs come alive. ... The computer and its power switch are the way to my experience of the programs (or whatever). The guru is like that. It is just an enabling device. Without it there is no experience of program. With it, it is not guaranteed. However the conditions are (1) having the computer, electricity and programs, and (2) having the willingness to sit in front of it and work. Given these two, results are not guaranteed, but conditions have been met for them to occur. Finally, you are the architect of your own realization." You wrote: *** i have seen in many instances that people reciting Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own rules and regulations. *** I disagree, at least in part. The Divine Mother is not bound by rules and regulations, any more than Her creation is ruled by, say, the laws of classical physics, or relativity, or quantum mechanics. Laws are merely human attempts to define and codify the workings of what they perceive to be the moral and physical Universe. Don't get me wrong: Laws can be a wonderful thing. But there is a saying that the SPIRIT of the law is its life, and the LETTER of the law is its death. We fall victim of the letter of the law when we try to achieve things (or prevent things) by invoking semantic technicalities (or loopholes etc!) in the written code, rather than keeping our eye on the bigger picture of what the law is truly intended to accomplish. What are the prohibitions contained in the Phala Sruti meant to achieve? I look at it almost like a set of traffic laws! Think about it: An automobile is an inherently dangerous machine -- a high-speed hunk of metal propelled by controlled explosions of flammable liquid, careening down highways at speeds unimaginable on Earth for most of human history. Such a power must be contained and controlled or people will get hurt, right? So we make traffic rules, speed limits etc. We equip the vehicles with seatbelts and safety locks and childproofing -- why? So that people who don't know how to drive, who don't know the rules, who don't have the skills, don't hurt themselves or others. It is not a fine science, really. Anyone who drives knows there are plenty of lunkheads with licenses on the road. Similarly, anyone who practices Srividya, etc., knows that there are plenty of lunkheads with initiation. *lol* Am I wrong? ;-) Devi is no fool, though. She does not see the rules and regulations, but the reality behind them. She extends Her grace according to Her will, not according to our rules and definitions. On the other hand, when you say the "Divine Mother sends a person to such people [i.e. the uninitiated, but truly devoted] to get them initiated into Srividhya" -- this I believe is true. Those who truly choose Her; and more so, those whom She truly chooses, are given the tools to find Her. To once again quote Amritaji: "I love you. I will give you peace. That is a promise. But I cannot make you see Her. I will do my best, but ultimately that is something you have to earn for yourself." Rules and regulations can only hope to partially describe her from some relative standpoint. By in the end, Her Grace is the only "initiation" that matters. aim mAtangyai namaH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 There have been a lot of opinion in this regard from learned devotees. However my feeling is that the great Guru had the opportunity to hear the lalitha sahasranama and trisathi as initiated by the Divine Mother itself. Therefore even the Phala sruthi is her own dictum and none has the right to contravene. It is true that She does not punish anyone for contravening the rules, but the fact remains that the reciter without the Panchadasi mantra do not get the benefits which otherwise would have come to him,. We cannot be content with the fact that some one has been reciting the sahasranama and trisathi without adverse effect, but should ensure that he or she gets the fullest results both in material and spiritual. The phalasruthi clearly says that the Gupta Yoginis curse those persons who does not follow the rules. If that is not the case why then the Divine Mother should say so. It also means that Guru should know the full text of Lalitha sahasranama and trisathi including the phala sruthi and initiate the disciple properly. These are not just like any other sahasranama or stotra. Anyway i do not want to go on arguing any further and I leave it to the good sense of everyone to follow as they want. Kindest regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta wrote: > > Dear Shangaranarayanan: > > I cannot help but feel that Her grace is the most important factor, > not initiation or non-initiation. It is my feeling that the soul who > truly and completely surrenders to Her in selfless devotion is ten > times the sadhak than the one who, though fully initiated and > schooled in the techniques of Srividya, practices in hopes of > gaining those boons enumerated in the Phala Sruti. > > First let me assure you that I am not speaking from the standpoint > of sour grapes. For what it is worth, I have received initiation > into Srividya, and I appreciate the incredible potency of the system > and technique. However, my Guru says: "When I switch on a computer, > the monitor and the programs come alive. ... The computer and its > power switch are the way to my experience of the programs (or > whatever). The guru is like that. It is just an enabling device. > Without it there is no experience of program. With it, it is not > guaranteed. However the conditions are (1) having the computer, > electricity and programs, and (2) having the willingness to sit in > front of it and work. Given these two, results are not guaranteed, > but conditions have been met for them to occur. Finally, you are the > architect of your own realization." > > You wrote: *** i have seen in many instances that people reciting > Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in > Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and > that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them > initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own > rules and regulations. *** > > I disagree, at least in part. The Divine Mother is not bound by > rules and regulations, any more than Her creation is ruled by, say, > the laws of classical physics, or relativity, or quantum mechanics. > Laws are merely human attempts to define and codify the workings of > what they perceive to be the moral and physical Universe. Don't get > me wrong: Laws can be a wonderful thing. But there is a saying that > the SPIRIT of the law is its life, and the LETTER of the law is its > death. We fall victim of the letter of the law when we try to > achieve things (or prevent things) by invoking semantic > technicalities (or loopholes etc!) in the written code, rather than > keeping our eye on the bigger picture of what the law is truly > intended to accomplish. > > What are the prohibitions contained in the Phala Sruti meant to > achieve? I look at it almost like a set of traffic laws! Think about > it: An automobile is an inherently dangerous machine -- a high-speed > hunk of metal propelled by controlled explosions of flammable > liquid, careening down highways at speeds unimaginable on Earth for > most of human history. Such a power must be contained and controlled > or people will get hurt, right? So we make traffic rules, speed > limits etc. We equip the vehicles with seatbelts and safety locks > and childproofing -- why? So that people who don't know how to > drive, who don't know the rules, who don't have the skills, don't > hurt themselves or others. It is not a fine science, really. Anyone > who drives knows there are plenty of lunkheads with licenses on the > road. > > Similarly, anyone who practices Srividya, etc., knows that there are > plenty of lunkheads with initiation. *lol* Am I wrong? ;-) Devi is > no fool, though. She does not see the rules and regulations, but the > reality behind them. She extends Her grace according to Her will, > not according to our rules and definitions. > > On the other hand, when you say the "Divine Mother sends a person to > such people [i.e. the uninitiated, but truly devoted] to get them > initiated into Srividhya" -- this I believe is true. Those who truly > choose Her; and more so, those whom She truly chooses, are given the > tools to find Her. > > To once again quote Amritaji: "I love you. I will give you peace. > That is a promise. But I cannot make you see Her. I will do my best, > but ultimately that is something you have to earn for yourself." > > Rules and regulations can only hope to partially describe her from > some relative standpoint. By in the end, Her Grace is the > only "initiation" that matters. > > aim mAtangyai namaH > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 I admire your humility. Reminds me of a question raised by DB almost same time last year......There are several millions of people, of which only a few even get a glance of athi rahasya of LS, even fewer get the opportunity to chant. The number of people who actually have the boon of performing Sri Chakra upasana is a miniscule fraction of the population. Is it possible to perceive chanting LS w/o initiation in this way? May be SHE wishes certain people to become initiated late in this lifetime so the soul can be a full fledged SVU in the next? SHE says it is athi rahasya, meaning SHE is the keeper of the secret. So if anyone learns of it, it also means SHE wants them to learn and know it. May be those people have too much of karma to be initiated at present and SHE is preparing them for something divine in the future (as in the next birth?). One's karma is their own and it has to end where it started. People experiencing "bad luck" after learning and practicing "athi rahasya" is not because of HER "anger", but because of HER good grace. Normally, one's karma, barring newly created ones, are experienced over several lifetimes. SHE brings all the karma to an end in a fraction of a life's time. May be it can be explained better with a simple story. Kannappan and Sivachariyar (the priest who was performing the daily puja to Lord Shiva) were both granted entry into HIS adobe. Sivacharyar performed the daily rituals w/o fail for almost his full lifetime, braving bad weather, wild animals, poor economic conditions etc etc, walking through the rough terrain of the forest to reach the temple. His karma was reduced during the process. While uneducated tribal hunter Kannappan had only love for HIM. He had no ritualistic knowledge to perform the pujas etc. His karma was taken off by his own action of taking out his eye to substitute for the bleeding eye of the Lord. Intensely painful, but did get his karma off in a hurry. Even though the story is about HIM, it is about HER as well, as both are the same. SHE being the Mother, might be teaching the pre-kg level lessons through LS (w/o initiation) so they can get their Ph. D. level education later. After all, our experiences as registered in our memories are limited to this lifetime only. May be in some cases, SHE would have revealed to the devotee what they have been doing in their past births, how they were actually taken through their pre-KG levels. G , sangar narayanan <mackro1932 wrote: > > There have been a lot of opinion in this regard from learned devotees. However my feeling is that the great Guru had the opportunity to hear the lalitha sahasranama and trisathi as initiated by the Divine Mother itself. Therefore even the Phala sruthi is her own dictum and none has the right to contravene. It is true that She does not punish anyone for contravening the rules, but the fact remains that the reciter without the Panchadasi mantra do not get the benefits which otherwise would have come to him,. We cannot be content with the fact that some one has been reciting the sahasranama and trisathi without adverse effect, but should ensure that he or she gets the fullest results both in material and spiritual. The phalasruthi clearly says that the Gupta Yoginis curse those persons who does not follow the rules. If that is not the case why then the Divine Mother should say so. > It also means that Guru should know the full text of Lalitha sahasranama and trisathi including the phala sruthi and initiate the disciple properly. These are not just like any other sahasranama or stotra. > Anyway i do not want to go on arguing any further and I leave it to the good sense of everyone to follow as they want. > Kindest regards, > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shangaranarayanan: > > > > I cannot help but feel that Her grace is the most important factor, > > not initiation or non-initiation. It is my feeling that the soul who > > truly and completely surrenders to Her in selfless devotion is ten > > times the sadhak than the one who, though fully initiated and > > schooled in the techniques of Srividya, practices in hopes of > > gaining those boons enumerated in the Phala Sruti. > > > > First let me assure you that I am not speaking from the standpoint > > of sour grapes. For what it is worth, I have received initiation > > into Srividya, and I appreciate the incredible potency of the system > > and technique. However, my Guru says: "When I switch on a computer, > > the monitor and the programs come alive. ... The computer and its > > power switch are the way to my experience of the programs (or > > whatever). The guru is like that. It is just an enabling device. > > Without it there is no experience of program. With it, it is not > > guaranteed. However the conditions are (1) having the computer, > > electricity and programs, and (2) having the willingness to sit in > > front of it and work. Given these two, results are not guaranteed, > > but conditions have been met for them to occur. Finally, you are the > > architect of your own realization." > > > > You wrote: *** i have seen in many instances that people reciting > > Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in > > Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and > > that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them > > initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own > > rules and regulations. *** > > > > I disagree, at least in part. The Divine Mother is not bound by > > rules and regulations, any more than Her creation is ruled by, say, > > the laws of classical physics, or relativity, or quantum mechanics. > > Laws are merely human attempts to define and codify the workings of > > what they perceive to be the moral and physical Universe. Don't get > > me wrong: Laws can be a wonderful thing. But there is a saying that > > the SPIRIT of the law is its life, and the LETTER of the law is its > > death. We fall victim of the letter of the law when we try to > > achieve things (or prevent things) by invoking semantic > > technicalities (or loopholes etc!) in the written code, rather than > > keeping our eye on the bigger picture of what the law is truly > > intended to accomplish. > > > > What are the prohibitions contained in the Phala Sruti meant to > > achieve? I look at it almost like a set of traffic laws! Think about > > it: An automobile is an inherently dangerous machine -- a high- speed > > hunk of metal propelled by controlled explosions of flammable > > liquid, careening down highways at speeds unimaginable on Earth for > > most of human history. Such a power must be contained and controlled > > or people will get hurt, right? So we make traffic rules, speed > > limits etc. We equip the vehicles with seatbelts and safety locks > > and childproofing -- why? So that people who don't know how to > > drive, who don't know the rules, who don't have the skills, don't > > hurt themselves or others. It is not a fine science, really. Anyone > > who drives knows there are plenty of lunkheads with licenses on the > > road. > > > > Similarly, anyone who practices Srividya, etc., knows that there are > > plenty of lunkheads with initiation. *lol* Am I wrong? ;-) Devi is > > no fool, though. She does not see the rules and regulations, but the > > reality behind them. She extends Her grace according to Her will, > > not according to our rules and definitions. > > > > On the other hand, when you say the "Divine Mother sends a person to > > such people [i.e. the uninitiated, but truly devoted] to get them > > initiated into Srividhya" -- this I believe is true. Those who truly > > choose Her; and more so, those whom She truly chooses, are given the > > tools to find Her. > > > > To once again quote Amritaji: "I love you. I will give you peace. > > That is a promise. But I cannot make you see Her. I will do my best, > > but ultimately that is something you have to earn for yourself." > > > > Rules and regulations can only hope to partially describe her from > > some relative standpoint. By in the end, Her Grace is the > > only "initiation" that matters. > > > > aim mAtangyai namaH > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 welllllllllll yes !! there are rules and rules. Some apply for sometime for some situations and some apply for all times for all situations!! I have had this doubt from very early in my life. When i was about 10 (I think) when we used to recite LS daily at home. i asked my mother and she said the rules have no application when it is "nishkama" ie. without any specific need to be achieved and is for HER grace. When we do it "sa kaama" - with a specific aim to be achieved - all the Rules spring into action and results WILL NOT follow unless rules are followed. In the present clime and time what we need is HER grace. Thats why great souls like Amritanandamayi advocate LS and grants sanction. Those sanctions are IMHO universal. Another interesting aspect is that when you recite it for HER grace, Devi gives ALL we need and we are entitled whether we ask for it or not. (remember the lump of fat story posted earlier?) well i can go on and on. But then it will become blabbering. My 2 cents. Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta > wrote: Dear Shangaranarayanan: I cannot help but feel that Her grace is the most important factor, not initiation or non-initiation. It is my feeling that the soul who truly and completely surrenders to Her in selfless devotion is ten times the sadhak than the one who, though fully initiated and schooled in the techniques of Srividya, practices in hopes of gaining those boons enumerated in the Phala Sruti. First let me assure you that I am not speaking from the standpoint of sour grapes. For what it is worth, I have received initiation into Srividya, and I appreciate the incredible potency of the system and technique. However, my Guru says: "When I switch on a computer, the monitor and the programs come alive. ... The computer and its power switch are the way to my experience of the programs (or whatever). The guru is like that. It is just an enabling device. Without it there is no experience of program. With it, it is not guaranteed. However the conditions are (1) having the computer, electricity and programs, and (2) having the willingness to sit in front of it and work. Given these two, results are not guaranteed, but conditions have been met for them to occur. Finally, you are the architect of your own realization." You wrote: *** i have seen in many instances that people reciting Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own rules and regulations. *** I disagree, at least in part. The Divine Mother is not bound by rules and regulations, any more than Her creation is ruled by, say, the laws of classical physics, or relativity, or quantum mechanics. Laws are merely human attempts to define and codify the workings of what they perceive to be the moral and physical Universe. Don't get me wrong: Laws can be a wonderful thing. But there is a saying that the SPIRIT of the law is its life, and the LETTER of the law is its death. We fall victim of the letter of the law when we try to achieve things (or prevent things) by invoking semantic technicalities (or loopholes etc!) in the written code, rather than keeping our eye on the bigger picture of what the law is truly intended to accomplish. What are the prohibitions contained in the Phala Sruti meant to achieve? I look at it almost like a set of traffic laws! Think about it: An automobile is an inherently dangerous machine -- a high-speed hunk of metal propelled by controlled explosions of flammable liquid, careening down highways at speeds unimaginable on Earth for most of human history. Such a power must be contained and controlled or people will get hurt, right? So we make traffic rules, speed limits etc. We equip the vehicles with seatbelts and safety locks and childproofing -- why? So that people who don't know how to drive, who don't know the rules, who don't have the skills, don't hurt themselves or others. It is not a fine science, really. Anyone who drives knows there are plenty of lunkheads with licenses on the road. Similarly, anyone who practices Srividya, etc., knows that there are plenty of lunkheads with initiation. *lol* Am I wrong? ;-) Devi is no fool, though. She does not see the rules and regulations, but the reality behind them. She extends Her grace according to Her will, not according to our rules and definitions. On the other hand, when you say the "Divine Mother sends a person to such people [i.e. the uninitiated, but truly devoted] to get them initiated into Srividhya" -- this I believe is true. Those who truly choose Her; and more so, those whom She truly chooses, are given the tools to find Her. To once again quote Amritaji: "I love you. I will give you peace. That is a promise. But I cannot make you see Her. I will do my best, but ultimately that is something you have to earn for yourself." Rules and regulations can only hope to partially describe her from some relative standpoint. By in the end, Her Grace is the only "initiation" that matters. aim mAtangyai namaH Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 Yes! Yes! Yes! Absolutely! Perfectly said! - sankara menon Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:19 AM Re: Re: lalitha sahasranama parayana welllllllllll yes !! there are rules and rules. Some apply for sometime for some situations and some apply for all times for all situations!! I have had this doubt from very early in my life. When i was about 10 (I think) when we used to recite LS daily at home. i asked my mother and she said the rules have no application when it is "nishkama" ie. without any specific need to be achieved and is for HER grace. When we do it "sa kaama" - with a specific aim to be achieved - all the Rules spring into action and results WILL NOT follow unless rules are followed. In the present clime and time what we need is HER grace. Thats why great souls like Amritanandamayi advocate LS and grants sanction. Those sanctions are IMHO universal. Another interesting aspect is that when you recite it for HER grace, Devi gives ALL we need and we are entitled whether we ask for it or not. (remember the lump of fat story posted earlier?) well i can go on and on. But then it will become blabbering. My 2 cents. Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta > wrote: Dear Shangaranarayanan: I cannot help but feel that Her grace is the most important factor, not initiation or non-initiation. It is my feeling that the soul who truly and completely surrenders to Her in selfless devotion is ten times the sadhak than the one who, though fully initiated and schooled in the techniques of Srividya, practices in hopes of gaining those boons enumerated in the Phala Sruti. First let me assure you that I am not speaking from the standpoint of sour grapes. For what it is worth, I have received initiation into Srividya, and I appreciate the incredible potency of the system and technique. However, my Guru says: "When I switch on a computer, the monitor and the programs come alive. ... The computer and its power switch are the way to my experience of the programs (or whatever). The guru is like that. It is just an enabling device. Without it there is no experience of program. With it, it is not guaranteed. However the conditions are (1) having the computer, electricity and programs, and (2) having the willingness to sit in front of it and work. Given these two, results are not guaranteed, but conditions have been met for them to occur. Finally, you are the architect of your own realization." You wrote: *** i have seen in many instances that people reciting Lalitha Sahasranama for years together without being initiated in Panchadasi had an opportunity at the fag end to get initiated, and that is how Divine Mother sends a person to such people to get them initiated into Srividhya, as She does not want to break her own rules and regulations. *** I disagree, at least in part. The Divine Mother is not bound by rules and regulations, any more than Her creation is ruled by, say, the laws of classical physics, or relativity, or quantum mechanics. Laws are merely human attempts to define and codify the workings of what they perceive to be the moral and physical Universe. Don't get me wrong: Laws can be a wonderful thing. But there is a saying that the SPIRIT of the law is its life, and the LETTER of the law is its death. We fall victim of the letter of the law when we try to achieve things (or prevent things) by invoking semantic technicalities (or loopholes etc!) in the written code, rather than keeping our eye on the bigger picture of what the law is truly intended to accomplish. What are the prohibitions contained in the Phala Sruti meant to achieve? I look at it almost like a set of traffic laws! Think about it: An automobile is an inherently dangerous machine -- a high-speed hunk of metal propelled by controlled explosions of flammable liquid, careening down highways at speeds unimaginable on Earth for most of human history. Such a power must be contained and controlled or people will get hurt, right? So we make traffic rules, speed limits etc. We equip the vehicles with seatbelts and safety locks and childproofing -- why? So that people who don't know how to drive, who don't know the rules, who don't have the skills, don't hurt themselves or others. It is not a fine science, really. Anyone who drives knows there are plenty of lunkheads with licenses on the road. Similarly, anyone who practices Srividya, etc., knows that there are plenty of lunkheads with initiation. *lol* Am I wrong? ;-) Devi is no fool, though. She does not see the rules and regulations, but the reality behind them. She extends Her grace according to Her will, not according to our rules and definitions. On the other hand, when you say the "Divine Mother sends a person to such people [i.e. the uninitiated, but truly devoted] to get them initiated into Srividhya" -- this I believe is true. Those who truly choose Her; and more so, those whom She truly chooses, are given the tools to find Her. To once again quote Amritaji: "I love you. I will give you peace. That is a promise. But I cannot make you see Her. I will do my best, but ultimately that is something you have to earn for yourself." Rules and regulations can only hope to partially describe her from some relative standpoint. By in the end, Her Grace is the only "initiation" that matters. aim mAtangyai namaH Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 19, 2006 Dear Group members, Thanks for sharing your views on the concern expressed by me. I would like to share how mothers' blessings have saved our parents from the cudgels of death in 1996. My parents went to Amarnath Yatra in the year 1996 and caught in the Snow storm where more than 600 devotees perished. We were not able to communicate to them almost for ten days. They have gone almost 4 kms near to the Manchu -Lingam had to return without having darshan. They had gone through lot of physical strain to come out of from the extreme weather conditions. Their will was so strong that inspite of the extreme hardships they went through they had the darshan the subsequent in the present case my parents had utmost trust in my brother who has been overlooking all the family issues. They hae given the total responsibility on his shoulders. He has fallen into huge debt trap and because of him we are all in deep concern along with him. However it does pain us a lot but i do have very strong faith in mother lalitha to be bailing oot of this major concern without much distress. i feel mother has taught my parents a major lesson may even if it is your own brethren you need to be dispassionate in your love. I hope best comes out when you are challenged to your limits. Om Shree Matre NaMah. B.Venugopal , "Buram Venugopal" <venusburam wrote: > > Dear Group Members, > > my parents are ardent devotees of mother lalithambika. Their day begins > with the Lalitha sahasranama parayana and this has been regularly > followed since past 15 years. Kumkumarchana is being done to the > SriChakra every day. > > Presently we are in a serious debt trap which is making us worry a lot. > It is said that if you are a devotee of mother every thing is taken > care of. We still have faith in Mother but we introspect whether any > dosha is there in our Srichakra Puja because of which we are facing > this problem. > > When i raise this issue my mother brushes it aside saying that your > attitude and bhavana is more important than the rituals. > > Do let me have the groups opinion on how we can come out of this debt > trap. > > B.Venugopal > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 22, 2006 , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta wrote: > > *** When i raise this issue my mother brushes it aside saying that > your attitude and bhavana is more important than the rituals. *** > > Your mother is quite right, you know. But I will pray for you and > bring the situation to the attention of some who might be able to help. > > aim mAtangyai namaH While updating the SS website I came across this message. Somehow I feel compel to say something. This whole question remind me of a story. I have known this family for a long time. Devi brought this family and ours through a little temple in Johor, and we have become very close. One day this family came to us for financial help. Apparently one of his sons wanting so much to go over to UK to seek a new life, have borrowed a large sum from the bank and use the family land as collateral. Apparently the life in UK is not as rosy as he is made to believe. He couldn't keep up with the Bank Interest, and not wanting to worry the parent, he hide this from them, until one day the bank send in a note from the court. They are to pay all the loans including the interest rates within the stipulated time or their land will be auctioned off. They struggle to pay off part of the loan especially the bank interest. All their savings were gone not to mention the debt they have to incur from others. Than another day, he came back to us saying he needed certain amount badly. Why? Because his younger brother's daughter is getting married, and they do not have the money for the wedding. So they come to him for help. "but you do not have the money. Why don't you tell them the truth" I reminded him. "yes! But how to tell them that? I am the eldest son. I have to find a way to get that money. Where am I to put my face" He remarked We must be the best, because that have always been in the family. If not we will loose face. Indeed, eventually it's all about face. About saving face and maintaining this face is very important. Dosen't matter if we cannot afford it, we must protect our face. This face is our social status that we must try to maintain because that is what we are, who we are. Our very existence. If you try to remove this face, we cease to exist. I have been trying to understand this for sometime: this whole issue about face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
