Making friends...

[Guest guest]

"Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the actions

which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in the

future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

 

How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to just

say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

 

Thank you,

Karen []

[Guest guest]

Hi Karen,

 

I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your actions.

She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you will

feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

 

For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

"respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this term in

relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the activity of

making offerings in puja.

 

To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept all

that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I don't

think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

(action) an offering.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, "forall10q" <forall10q wrote:

>

>

> "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the actions

> which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in the

> future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

> pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

>

> How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to just

> say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

>

> Thank you,

> Karen []

>

[Guest guest]

Chris, thanks a lot for your response. So making friends with prarabdha

karma (result of past actions) is the same as accepting them as the

grace of Divine Mother? Is that it? So is there Divine Intervention in

our prarabdha karma? Results aren't just according to some universal

code, i.e., you do this...and get that?

 

Thank you again,

Karen []

 

, "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956

wrote:

>

> Hi Karen,

>

> I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your actions.

> She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you will

> feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

>

> For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

> "respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this term in

> relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

> devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the activity of

> making offerings in puja.

>

> To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept all

> that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I don't

> think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

> (action) an offering.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

> , "forall10q" forall10q@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the

actions

> > which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in the

> > future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

> > pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

> >

> > How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to

just

> > say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Karen []

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Karen,

 

This is a difficult subject to be clear about, I think. What you are

asking about is karma and grace and how they interact in the life of a

devotee or sadhaka, and I think there is no simple answer. I think the

answer is as individual and varied as one soul from another.

 

Karma is by no means an absolute. Karma can be burned before it is

experienced and it can be attenuated. It can be shared with or accepted

by another person. Of course, it can also be experienced, whether we

like it or not, as Swamiji has said.

 

Remember the story Maa has told about the difference between the bhakta

and the jnani? Divine Mother does everything for the bhakta, protects

her at every turn, but the jnani, She leaves on her own, thinking she

can take care of herself.

 

How devoted, how pure must we become, when our every action is

experienced as an offering to God at the altar of life? How could She

not care for her pujari in the midst of her worship?

 

Does this mean that nothing "bad" can happen to that devotee? I think it

depends on your perspective, for instance, death could happen, but the

devotee in an exhaulted state would rejoice to be in the presence of his

Beloved, and accept this karma with equanimity at the very least, if not

gladness. A worldly person, seeing this death might say, "A lot of good

his constant praying did him!"

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, "forall10q" <forall10q wrote:

>

> Chris, thanks a lot for your response. So making friends with

prarabdha

> karma (result of past actions) is the same as accepting them as the

> grace of Divine Mother? Is that it? So is there Divine Intervention

in

> our prarabdha karma? Results aren't just according to some universal

> code, i.e., you do this...and get that?

>

> Thank you again,

> Karen []

>

> , "Chris Kirner" chriskirner1956@

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Karen,

> >

> > I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your actions.

> > She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you

will

> > feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

> >

> > For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

> > "respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this term

in

> > relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

> > devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the activity

of

> > making offerings in puja.

> >

> > To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept all

> > that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I

don't

> > think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

> > (action) an offering.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> > , "forall10q" forall10q@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the

> actions

> > > which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in

the

> > > future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

> > > pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

> > >

> > > How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to

> just

> > > say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Karen []

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A worldly person, seeing this death might say, "A lot of good

> his constant praying did him!"

>

Jai Maa, Chris!

i love this! Truly (as Mother Theresa has said) "it's between you and God. It was never

between you and them anyways"

[Guest guest]

Beloved Karen, Chris and everybody,

 

Thanks for this beautiful discussion and sharing Maa's words and thinking more deeply

about them.

 

One time we were in the kitchen with Maa and Maa had a can of garbanzo beans (i think)

to be drained. Immediately, i took the colander that was closest and was going to put the

can in it when Maa said "Too big."

 

So i put that colander aside and rushed to get a smaller one and emptied the can into it.

 

Maa said, "Show respect", looking at the big colander.

 

I put the big colander back in its original place...

 

This must have all happened in a minute or so - but it was such a good lesson in being

"respectful".

 

i learnt that if we are aware and conscious (Swamiji calls "efficient") then we show respect.

 

If we think of each object as divine, we will not just throw it around or make it wait -- the

big colander had no need to be sitting around - He went back to his house in the closet

and did japa! :-) It helps me be happy to of all tools and people we come to interact with

as forms of God. God is so beautiful, varied and close...all the time!

 

May Divine Mother bless us to be conscious of Her presence - around us, within us and

everywhere -- all the time! Jai MAA!

 

 

 

 

 

, "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 wrote:

>

> Hi Karen,

>

> I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your actions.

> She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you will

> feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

>

> For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

> "respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this term in

> relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

> devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the activity of

> making offerings in puja.

>

> To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept all

> that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I don't

> think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

> (action) an offering.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

> , "forall10q" <forall10q@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the actions

> > which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in the

> > future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

> > pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

> >

> > How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to just

> > say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Karen []

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Karen, Chris and everybody,

 

Thanks for this beautiful discussion and sharing Maa's words and thinking more

deeply

about them.

 

One time we were in the kitchen with Maa and Maa had a can of garbanzo beans (i

think)

to be drained. Immediately, i took the colander that was closest and was going

to put the

can in it when Maa said "Too big."

 

So i put that colander aside and rushed to get a smaller one and emptied the can

into it.

 

Maa said, "Show respect", looking at the big colander.

 

I put the big colander back in its original place...

 

This must have all happened in a minute or so - but it was such a good lesson in

being

"respectful".

 

i learnt that if we are aware and conscious (Swamiji calls "efficient") then we

show respect.

 

If we think of each object as divine, we will not just throw it around or make

it wait -- the

big colander had no need to be sitting around - He went back to his house in the

closet

and did japa! :-) It helps me be happy to of all tools and people we come to

interact with

as forms of God. God is so beautiful, varied and close...all the time!

 

May Divine Mother bless us to be conscious of Her presence - around us, within

us and

everywhere -- all the time! Jai MAA!

 

, "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 wrote:

>

> Hi Karen,

>

> I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your actions.

> She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you will

> feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

>

> For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

> "respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this term in

> relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

> devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the activity of

> making offerings in puja.

>

> To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept all

> that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I don't

> think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

> (action) an offering.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

> , "forall10q" <forall10q@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the actions

> > which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in the

> > future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will become

> > pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

> >

> > How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough to just

> > say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Karen []

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take part. I have a question

regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen to a person and how

to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some very traumatic, violent

experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I do? How do I

reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself that there is a greater

reason for everything, but I just don't understand. it is possible that in my last life I did

something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous sins? It certainly

doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way toward another being.

Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to feel anger and bitterness

toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him and forgive him, as he

was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these experiences come up, I feel

tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I just surrender to the

pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as I have been trying,

unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing torture? How does this

type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether there wasn't a different

way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show respect" to these

memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the ultimate answer is to

learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is my greatest goal,

though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice would be so appreciated.

Much love and respect for all.

 

Saswati

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Ramyaji, for sharing Maa's valuable lesson. I believe I

have a lot of making up to do for past demonstrations of disrespect in

my kitchen! To regard all tools as forms of God is beautiful and to me

it gives a whole new meaning to the thought of your home as a temple

of God. This is not just about the little corner we have our altar in,

is it? Thank you very much for enriching my day,

 

JAI MAA,

 

Henny

 

 

 

, "n_ramya108" <n_ramya108

wrote:

>

> Namaste Karen, Chris and everybody,

>

> Thanks for this beautiful discussion and sharing Maa's words and

thinking more

> deeply

> about them.

>

> One time we were in the kitchen with Maa and Maa had a can of

garbanzo beans (i

> think)

> to be drained. Immediately, i took the colander that was closest and

was going

> to put the

> can in it when Maa said "Too big."

>

> So i put that colander aside and rushed to get a smaller one and

emptied the can

> into it.

>

> Maa said, "Show respect", looking at the big colander.

>

> I put the big colander back in its original place...

>

> This must have all happened in a minute or so - but it was such a

good lesson in

> being

> "respectful".

>

> i learnt that if we are aware and conscious (Swamiji calls

"efficient") then we

> show respect.

>

> If we think of each object as divine, we will not just throw it

around or make

> it wait -- the

> big colander had no need to be sitting around - He went back to his

house in the

> closet

> and did japa! :-) It helps me be happy to of all tools and people we

come to

> interact with

> as forms of God. God is so beautiful, varied and close...all the

time!

>

> May Divine Mother bless us to be conscious of Her presence - around

us, within

> us and

> everywhere -- all the time! Jai MAA!

>

> , "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Karen,

> >

> > I think this goes along with what Maa calls respecting your

actions.

> > She once wrote to me, "Respect your actions all the time and you

will

> > feel more close to God. Eventually you will become God."

> >

> > For the longest time I had absolutely no idea what she meant by

> > "respecting actions", but I have since come to understand this

term in

> > relation to doing puja. I think that her definition of respect is

> > devotion and attention, which is the perfect state for the

activity of

> > making offerings in puja.

> >

> > To make friends with prarabdha karma, one must be able to accept

all

> > that comes as an expression of the grace of Divine Mother, and I

don't

> > think that is possible until one is able to make one's every karma

> > (action) an offering.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> > , "forall10q" <forall10q@>

wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > "Maa says that you can make friends with prarabdha karma [the

actions

> > > which were begun in the past and which will come to fruition in

the

> > > future]. If you try to make friends, at that time you will

become

> > > pure." (page 13 Kasyapa Sutra of The Guru and the Goddess)

> > >

> > > How does a person try to make friends with karma? Is it enough

to just

> > > say okay and accept what comes? Does that make a person pure?

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Karen []

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Saswati,

 

My prayers for your peace and well being. If our goal is to move forward - towards God -

towards light and love, we do not want to live in the past or harbor negativities in our

mind. We want our mind to be pure and beautiful - and our heart a temple of God.

 

How to do this? Two suggestions we have learnt from Swamiji and Maa - i pray they are of

some help to you.

 

(a) In Swamiji's book "Guru and the Goddess" in the discussion of Kasyapa sutras talks

about how we can use bija mantras to replace negative emotions (e.g., anger) with positive

emtions (e.g., peace). So if you want to be happy and not sad -- you can alternately say

the bija mantra for sad and happy -- it is very simple and very effective. One mala with

faith can bring a beautiful change, in my humble experience.

 

(b) Shree Maa says that when we have negative thoughts - like anger and jelousy - we

should do "prayaschit". We can do japa of any mantra for any number of times we feel

comfortable. We don't want to live with negative thoughts or entertain them.. We want to

live with Truth, Infinite Consciousness and Beauty -- Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram!

 

Jai MAA!

 

ramya

 

 

, "sbramaswami" <saswati_ramaswami wrote:

>

> What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take part. I have a question

> regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen to a person and

how

> to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some very traumatic,

violent

> experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I do? How do I

> reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself that there is a greater

> reason for everything, but I just don't understand. it is possible that in my last life I did

> something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous sins? It certainly

> doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way toward another

being.

> Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to feel anger and

bitterness

> toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him and forgive him, as

he

> was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these experiences come up, I feel

> tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I just surrender to the

> pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as I have been trying,

> unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing torture? How does this

> type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether there wasn't a

different

> way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show respect" to these

> memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the ultimate answer is to

> learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is my greatest goal,

> though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice would be so

appreciated.

> Much love and respect for all.

>

> Saswati

>

[Guest guest]

Saswati,

 

Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are this old,

but your post just pulled at my heart.

 

May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror of it

you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

within.

 

I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

 

Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to accept

that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

 

That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as individual.

This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

 

Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world (that was

from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so we can

make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

 

So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely experience

the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

 

These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very mysterious.

 

There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to me to

deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell, as it

were), and people in difficult environments who through their goodness

and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a better life

in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

attains to the consciousness of divinity.

 

There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

group karma interact with individual karma?

 

It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a famine

is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

violence or other suffering. But individuals in both circumstances do

experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

think, can only be explained by individual karma.

 

You asked:

it is pssible that in my last life I did

> something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous sins?

 

My short answer to that would be "Yes."

 

But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

"something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

requirement for them.

 

Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

cannot comprehend.

 

So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole suffers.

 

Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent neighborhood

in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility) being

played out individually, because of an unwise choice of activities on

the part of the man.

 

On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

 

Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

karma against death or injury that despite all the others being killed

she survived without a scratch.

 

On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

"scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely would have

continued in their bodies for a time.

 

All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't have "the

answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see them.

Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

 

I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the world's.

 

Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a long,

long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

regular sadhana.

 

You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of prana

in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense emotion

will be less disruptive.

 

Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better learning

to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

 

I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in your

place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I cannot say.

But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause of any

of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

 

May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the fire of

knowledge and devotion.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

, "sbramaswami"

<saswati_ramaswami wrote:

>

> What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

part. I have a question

> regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen

to a person and how

> to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some

very traumatic, violent

> experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I

do? How do I

> reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself

that there is a greater

> reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is pssible

that in my last life I did

> something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

sins? It certainly

> doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way

toward another being.

> Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

feel anger and bitterness

> toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

and forgive him, as he

> was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

experiences come up, I feel

> tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I

just surrender to the

> pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as

I have been trying,

> unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

torture? How does this

> type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

there wasn't a different

> way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

respect" to these

> memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the

ultimate answer is to

> learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is

my greatest goal,

> though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

would be so appreciated.

> Much love and respect for all.

>

> Saswati

>

[Guest guest]

this post spoke to my heart

and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group. i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

 

i seem to always yearn for some kind of peace. to be realized...but in my mind it is pictured as a utopia. an inner utopia...maybe i am so off track and that is why i feel i have failed in spiritual life. where do i go from here?

 

in warmth

senka

 

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Saswati,

 

Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are this old,

but your post just pulled at my heart.

 

May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror of it

you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

within.

 

I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

 

Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to accept

that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

 

That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as individual.

This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

 

Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world (that was

from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so we can

make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

 

So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely experience

the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

 

These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very mysterious.

 

There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to me to

deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell, as it

were), and people in difficult environments who through their goodness

and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a better life

in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

attains to the consciousness of divinity.

 

There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

group karma interact with individual karma?

 

It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a famine

is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

violence or other suffering. But individuals in both circumstances do

experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

think, can only be explained by individual karma.

 

You asked:

it is pssible that in my last life I did

> something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous sins?

 

My short answer to that would be "Yes."

 

But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

"something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

requirement for them.

 

Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

cannot comprehend.

 

So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole suffers.

 

Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent neighborhood

in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility) being

played out individually, because of an unwise choice of activities on

the part of the man.

 

On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

 

Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

karma against death or injury that despite all the others being killed

she survived without a scratch.

 

On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

"scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely would have

continued in their bodies for a time.

 

All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't have "the

answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see them.

Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

 

I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the world's.

 

Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a long,

long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

regular sadhana.

 

You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of prana

in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense emotion

will be less disruptive.

 

Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better learning

to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

 

I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in your

place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I cannot say.

But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause of any

of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

 

May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the fire of

knowledge and devotion.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

, "sbramaswami"

<saswati_ramaswami wrote:

>

> What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

part. I have a question

> regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen

to a person and how

> to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some

very traumatic, violent

> experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I

do? How do I

> reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself

that there is a greater

> reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is pssible

that in my last life I did

> something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

sins? It certainly

> doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way

toward another being.

> Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

feel anger and bitterness

> toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

and forgive him, as he

> was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

experiences come up, I feel

> tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I

just surrender to the

> pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as

I have been trying,

> unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

torture? How does this

> type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

there wasn't a different

> way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

respect" to these

> memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the

ultimate answer is to

> learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is

my greatest goal,

> though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

would be so appreciated.

> Much love and respect for all.

>

> Saswati

>

 

 

 

 

Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada Messenger with Voice

[Guest guest]

this post spoke to my heart

and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group. i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I have asked myself the same questions in the past. Sometimes we learn the lessons we need to even if we don't realize what is happening. For example, intense suffering may awaken empathy for others who suffer, which can cause us to act in a more thoughtful and considerate manner in the future. Then we will no longer do those things that bring suffering upon ourselves. Another blessing behind suffering is that it can teach us to not seek our true happiness from anything that is external, including our relationships or other attachments. Some words of Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita have me helped get through such difficult times:

"Bring me thy failure. Find refuge in me. Let fruits of labour go, renouncing hope for Me, with lowliest heart, so shall thou come; for though to know is more than diligence, yet worship better is than knowing, and renouncing better still. Near to renunciation, very near, dwelleth eternal peace." Chapter 12

"Precious thou art to Me, right well beloved! Listen! I tell you for thy comfort this. Give Me thy heart! Adore Me! Serve Me! Cling in faith and love and reverence to Me! So shalt thou come to Me! I promise true, for thou art sweet to Me... Fly to Me alone! Make Me thy single refuge! I will free thy soul from all sins! Be of good cheer!" Chapter 18

 

 

 

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Senka,

 

How do I, who have so many more blessings than you, advise you? I

cannot hope to truly understand your situation, the daily struggles

you endure. I can only offer that which I have, and leave it to you to

do as you are able, and leave what doesn't really apply. Please

forgive me if I say the wrong thing...

 

It is natural to wonder why. It is normal to chafe under the burden of

our karmas, and the limitations of this existence. But it seems it has

perhaps gone too far for you, that the wondering and the chafing have

themselves become the burden?

 

You must try to let go of this shame and self-pity. I know (believe me

I know) it is hard when such feelings have become so much a part of

the mind. They constantly come bubbling up, coloring our every

thought, making us miserable. They are not who you are - even though

it may seem that way.

 

The past must learn to remain in the past. This will be very hard for

you, too, but it is necessary.

 

(I feel like I'm writing to myself here!)

 

You have not failed in your spiritual journey until you drop this

physical body and stand before God and She says you have failed. Until

then there is always the opportunity for change, for renewed effort,

for grace.

 

Purification of the mind and heart are necessary for you to be able to

be happy and let go of all this. Put yourself at the feet of God and

stay there. When your mind pulls you away, go back. That is the only way.

 

To do this it is necessary to establish a regular discipline. For

disruptive thoughts and feelings I find mantra japa or path

(recitation of scripture) very helpful. But puja is good too for

distracting a darkened mind and leading it toward beauty and devotion.

And always, there is prayer.

 

Sadhana is a commitment, and it requires effort and time. But just as

it took years for your mind to store up so much pain that it will not

let you rest now, so it will take some time to burn all that up. But

if you approach your sadhana, whatever it is, with faith and devotion,

and practice it diligently, it will help you. It needn't be anything

too complicated or difficult, either. Adapt your discipline to

whatever your body will allow you to do.

 

You might give some thought to perhaps writing to Maa or Swamiji and

telling them a little about yourself and ask what you should practice.

You can email them via a link on the main website www.shreemaa.org.

 

I'm very happy you're here, and if anything I have written is of help

to you, I am happy I was here to help. God bless you!

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, senka parks <swsaj wrote:

>

> this post spoke to my heart

> and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group.

i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read

everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and

delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if

i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now

so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so

selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the

opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone

and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

>

> i seem to always yearn for some kind of peace. to be realized...but

in my mind it is pictured as a utopia. an inner utopia...maybe i am so

off track and that is why i feel i have failed in spiritual life.

where do i go from here?

>

> in warmth

> senka

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

Saswati,

>

> Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

> last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are this old,

> but your post just pulled at my heart.

>

> May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

> She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror of it

> you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

> within.

>

> I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

> simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

>

> Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to accept

> that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

>

> That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as individual.

> This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

> individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

>

> Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

> had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world (that was

> from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

> practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so we can

> make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

>

> So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

> famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

> difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely experience

> the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

> lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

>

> These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

> the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very

mysterious.

>

> There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to me to

> deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell, as it

> were), and people in difficult environments who through their goodness

> and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a better life

> in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

> Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

> attains to the consciousness of divinity.

>

> There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

> group karma interact with individual karma?

>

> It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a famine

> is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

> place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

> violence or other suffering. But individuals in both circumstances do

> experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

> violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

> and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

> think, can only be explained by individual karma.

>

> You asked:

> it is pssible that in my last life I did

> > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

sins?

>

> My short answer to that would be "Yes."

>

> But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

> "something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

> here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

> neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

> open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

> circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

> requirement for them.

>

> Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

> lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

> cannot comprehend.

>

> So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

> experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole

suffers.

>

> Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent neighborhood

> in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

> walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

> beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

> wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

> and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility) being

> played out individually, because of an unwise choice of activities on

> the part of the man.

>

> On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

> person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

> surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

>

> Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

> explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

> karma against death or injury that despite all the others being killed

> she survived without a scratch.

>

> On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

> How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

> "scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

> very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

> possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

> circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely would have

> continued in their bodies for a time.

>

> All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't have "the

> answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see them.

> Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

>

> I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

> your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

> that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the world's.

>

> Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a long,

> long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

> with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

> much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

> regular sadhana.

>

> You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

> for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of prana

> in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

> can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense emotion

> will be less disruptive.

>

> Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

> beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better learning

> to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

> scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

> little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

>

> I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

> sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in your

> place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I cannot say.

> But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause of any

> of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

> circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

> circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

>

> May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the fire of

> knowledge and devotion.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , "sbramaswami"

> <saswati_ramaswami@> wrote:

> >

> > What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

> part. I have a question

> > regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen

> to a person and how

> > to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some

> very traumatic, violent

> > experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I

> do? How do I

> > reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself

> that there is a greater

> > reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is pssible

> that in my last life I did

> > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> sins? It certainly

> > doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way

> toward another being.

> > Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

> feel anger and bitterness

> > toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

> and forgive him, as he

> > was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

> experiences come up, I feel

> > tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I

> just surrender to the

> > pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as

> I have been trying,

> > unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

> torture? How does this

> > type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

> there wasn't a different

> > way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

> respect" to these

> > memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the

> ultimate answer is to

> > learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is

> my greatest goal,

> > though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

> would be so appreciated.

> > Much love and respect for all.

> >

> > Saswati

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada

Messenger with Voice

>

[Guest guest]

Dearest Ramya, Chris and Senka,

 

Thank you both so much for your posts. Your words have soothed my pain. I

am trying now to just live without judgement, mostly of myself. I find that

I am more likely think unkind, mean thoughts about myself than anyone else

could ever think of me. Throughout my childhood, these thoughts protected

me and I am grateful for them. I tried to be ultra perfect, ultra good and

voices inside me would shout out whenever I wasn't performing at 110%.

Because of this inner voice, I probably got beaten a little less and maybe

it even saved my life. But now I don't need those voices anymore, so I am

trying to love myself and be thankful to God for all the things that I have

and am, knowing that things are just as they should be. If I ever come to

accept myself in the here and now, memories of past suffering may fade away.

It is so wonderful to have this support from all of you. I am so Blessed to

be in contact with you and to, of course, to know Maa and Swamiji. Jai Maa.

 

By the way, Ramya, could you please expand on the japa practice you

described earlier? Is there a "sadness and happy" bija mantra that you use?

Or do you just use your bija mantra and think the two words as you do japa?

 

Love,

 

Saswati

[Guest guest]

Namaste Saswati,

 

The list of bija mantras and practise is explained in 'The Guru and the Goddess". (page

40). You can chant one mala of the attitude you want to replace (e.g. sorrow - the bija

mantra is "duh"). Then one mala of the attitude you want in its place - if it is peace the bija

mantra is "sham". Alternatively, you can do one mala in which you repeat the bija for the

negative quality followed by the positive quality (e.g. one mala of duh-shaam) and watch

sorrow transform to peace. :-)

 

I am sorry i am not able to write the sanskrit pronunciation marks -- the "h" in duh has a

dot under it. In the book you can find a whole range of positive and negative attitudes -

their bija mantras and correct pronunciation. Swamiji also provides a deeper discussion

about mantras.

 

Hope this helps and wishing you lots and lots and lots of peace and joy!

 

Jai Maa!

 

 

, "Saswati B. Ramaswami"

<saswati_ramaswami wrote:

>

> Dearest Ramya, Chris and Senka,

>

> Thank you both so much for your posts. Your words have soothed my pain. I

> am trying now to just live without judgement, mostly of myself. I find that

> I am more likely think unkind, mean thoughts about myself than anyone else

> could ever think of me. Throughout my childhood, these thoughts protected

> me and I am grateful for them. I tried to be ultra perfect, ultra good and

> voices inside me would shout out whenever I wasn't performing at 110%.

> Because of this inner voice, I probably got beaten a little less and maybe

> it even saved my life. But now I don't need those voices anymore, so I am

> trying to love myself and be thankful to God for all the things that I have

> and am, knowing that things are just as they should be. If I ever come to

> accept myself in the here and now, memories of past suffering may fade away.

> It is so wonderful to have this support from all of you. I am so Blessed to

> be in contact with you and to, of course, to know Maa and Swamiji. Jai Maa.

>

> By the way, Ramya, could you please expand on the japa practice you

> described earlier? Is there a "sadness and happy" bija mantra that you use?

> Or do you just use your bija mantra and think the two words as you do japa?

>

> Love,

>

> Saswati

>

[Guest guest]

i had just put up a pictuer of Krishna today

and opend my email to see this.

so lovely :-)

 

i would have to say i am not the person i was so many years ago

and i was a very self destructive and angry person. but i feel out of

touch spiritually. like im detached and floating and just fantasizing

about being a monk or ascetic (sp?)...i want to be renounced

and not lament. i desire to see with spiritual eyes. but i just seem to end up

in the same place. alone and bound by my illness. no matter what i seem to do i can not see beyond my ego. and that is sad to me as well. since its this ego i have wrestled with and learned to tame. and yet spirit eludes me. i just cant feel it. but i do so want to...please forgive my self centerdness. i am at a point where i dont know how to follow my path. it is dry...and lonely. and i am small minded.

 

you can see how neophyte i am. i know absolutely nothing about real spirituality. i dont even know how to pray properly or what to read. any advice? i can see the Bagavad gita is a place to begin. i thank you for this

 

in warmth

senka

 

Gary <aniruddhan > wrote:

 

this post spoke to my heart

and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group. i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I have asked myself the same questions in the past. Sometimes we learn the lessons we need to even if we don't realize what is happening. For example, intense suffering may awaken empathy for others who suffer, which can cause us to act in a more thoughtful and considerate manner in the future. Then we will no longer do those things that bring suffering upon ourselves. Another blessing behind suffering is that it can teach us to not seek our true happiness from anything that is external, including our relationships or other attachments. Some words of Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita have me helped get through such difficult times:

"Bring me thy failure. Find refuge in me. Let fruits of labour go, renouncing hope for Me, with lowliest heart, so shall thou come; for though to know is more than diligence, yet worship better is than knowing, and renouncing better still. Near to renunciation, very near, dwelleth eternal peace." Chapter 12

"Precious thou art to Me, right well beloved! Listen! I tell you for thy comfort this. Give Me thy heart! Adore Me! Serve Me! Cling in faith and love and reverence to Me! So shalt thou come to Me! I promise true, for thou art sweet to Me... Fly to Me alone! Make Me thy single refuge! I will free thy soul from all sins! Be of good cheer!" Chapter 18

 

 

 

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

okay...so i just read this after posting my last mesage

 

and you have spoken to my soul! that is what i actually do...i wallow in my self pity. this is what i do the minute i wake. i am in much pain in the morning, and it takes about two hours to get out of bed. i take pain releif first and move so slow. and all the while i am thinking about how i do not wish to live another day. i do since i have family. but they will move on and will i still be surrounded in this pity i have for this material self?

 

i am deeply helped by this posting. and i do need sadana. but what is good sadana? i used to chant a mantra. but was so rote after some years. it became a chore and empty....my heart was so black. but what is a good mantra? what do i think of? can i let my spirit dance or is this indulgence. i have been led so many ways, and i only wish for truth in my heart. and shree maa is this to me. how do i serve her?

 

in warmth

senka

 

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Senka,

 

How do I, who have so many more blessings than you, advise you? I

cannot hope to truly understand your situation, the daily struggles

you endure. I can only offer that which I have, and leave it to you to

do as you are able, and leave what doesn't really apply. Please

forgive me if I say the wrong thing...

 

It is natural to wonder why. It is normal to chafe under the burden of

our karmas, and the limitations of this existence. But it seems it has

perhaps gone too far for you, that the wondering and the chafing have

themselves become the burden?

 

You must try to let go of this shame and self-pity. I know (believe me

I know) it is hard when such feelings have become so much a part of

the mind. They constantly come bubbling up, coloring our every

thought, making us miserable. They are not who you are - even though

it may seem that way.

 

The past must learn to remain in the past. This will be very hard for

you, too, but it is necessary.

 

(I feel like I'm writing to myself here!)

 

You have not failed in your spiritual journey until you drop this

physical body and stand before God and She says you have failed. Until

then there is always the opportunity for change, for renewed effort,

for grace.

 

Purification of the mind and heart are necessary for you to be able to

be happy and let go of all this. Put yourself at the feet of God and

stay there. When your mind pulls you away, go back. That is the only way.

 

To do this it is necessary to establish a regular discipline. For

disruptive thoughts and feelings I find mantra japa or path

(recitation of scripture) very helpful. But puja is good too for

distracting a darkened mind and leading it toward beauty and devotion.

And always, there is prayer.

 

Sadhana is a commitment, and it requires effort and time. But just as

it took years for your mind to store up so much pain that it will not

let you rest now, so it will take some time to burn all that up. But

if you approach your sadhana, whatever it is, with faith and devotion,

and practice it diligently, it will help you. It needn't be anything

too complicated or difficult, either. Adapt your discipline to

whatever your body will allow you to do.

 

You might give some thought to perhaps writing to Maa or Swamiji and

telling them a little about yourself and ask what you should practice.

You can email them via a link on the main website www.shreemaa.org.

 

I'm very happy you're here, and if anything I have written is of help

to you, I am happy I was here to help. God bless you!

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

, senka parks <swsaj wrote:

>

> this post spoke to my heart

> and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group.

i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read

everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and

delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if

i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now

so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so

selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the

opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone

and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

>

> i seem to always yearn for some kind of peace. to be realized...but

in my mind it is pictured as a utopia. an inner utopia...maybe i am so

off track and that is why i feel i have failed in spiritual life.

where do i go from here?

>

> in warmth

> senka

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

Saswati,

>

> Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

> last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are this old,

> but your post just pulled at my heart.

>

> May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

> She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror of it

> you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

> within.

>

> I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

> simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

>

> Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to accept

> that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

>

> That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as individual.

> This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

> individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

>

> Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

> had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world (that was

> from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

> practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so we can

> make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

>

> So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

> famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

> difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely experience

> the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

> lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

>

> These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

> the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very

mysterious.

>

> There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to me to

> deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell, as it

> were), and people in difficult environments who through their goodness

> and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a better life

> in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

> Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

> attains to the consciousness of divinity.

>

> There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

> group karma interact with individual karma?

>

> It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a famine

> is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

> place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

> violence or other suffering. But individuals in both circumstances do

> experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

> violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

> and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

> think, can only be explained by individual karma.

>

> You asked:

> it is pssible that in my last life I did

> > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

sins?

>

> My short answer to that would be "Yes."

>

> But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

> "something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

> here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

> neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

> open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

> circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

> requirement for them.

>

> Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

> lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

> cannot comprehend.

>

> So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

> experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole

suffers.

>

> Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent neighborhood

> in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

> walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

> beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

> wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

> and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility) being

> played out individually, because of an unwise choice of activities on

> the part of the man.

>

> On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

> person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

> surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

>

> Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

> explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

> karma against death or injury that despite all the others being killed

> she survived without a scratch.

>

> On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

> How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

> "scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

> very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

> possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

> circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely would have

> continued in their bodies for a time.

>

> All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't have "the

> answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see them.

> Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

>

> I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

> your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

> that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the world's.

>

> Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a long,

> long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

> with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

> much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

> regular sadhana.

>

> You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

> for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of prana

> in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

> can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense emotion

> will be less disruptive.

>

> Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

> beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better learning

> to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

> scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

> little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

>

> I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

> sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in your

> place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I cannot say.

> But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause of any

> of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

> circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

> circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

>

> May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the fire of

> knowledge and devotion.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , "sbramaswami"

> <saswati_ramaswami@> wrote:

> >

> > What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

> part. I have a question

> > regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can happen

> to a person and how

> > to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have some

> very traumatic, violent

> > experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what do I

> do? How do I

> > reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling myself

> that there is a greater

> > reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is pssible

> that in my last life I did

> > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> sins? It certainly

> > doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved this way

> toward another being.

> > Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

> feel anger and bitterness

> > toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

> and forgive him, as he

> > was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

> experiences come up, I feel

> > tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this? Do I

> just surrender to the

> > pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking "WHY", as

> I have been trying,

> > unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

> torture? How does this

> > type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

> there wasn't a different

> > way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

> respect" to these

> > memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know that the

> ultimate answer is to

> > learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga. This is

> my greatest goal,

> > though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

> would be so appreciated.

> > Much love and respect for all.

> >

> > Saswati

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada

Messenger with Voice

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello - I am new to this site too. I recently joined about a week or so ago and have been reading the postings.  I feel similar to this email below, except I do feel the pull towards the spiritual. I do have a hard time however controlling my mind and knowing what the right thing to do is. I have begun to take classes in the Bhagavad Gita and have just learned about karma yoga, but I would love some advice on prayers, mantras, other readings to follow and feel more peace. Right now my mind is a bit scattered. I have similar relationship concerns as some others - how to stay in a healthy relationship and not get pulled by the senses.

 

 

 

Monica

 

 

 

senka parks <swsaj (AT) (DOT) ca>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Swamiji Maharaj!

 

Can you please comment on the discrepancies in dating the life of Adi Shankararcharya. Here is a snippet on the subject from Wikipedia:

 

Modern scholarship is agreed on the 788 - 820 CE date, though it has proved impossible to reach agreement on Adi Shankara's precise dates of birth or death.[24] Some Shankara Ma?has, however, ascribe much earlier dates to him.. If these dates were true, they would require moving back the date of Buddha (which serves as an anchor for modern academic history of India). Of the major Shankara Mathas active today, the ones at Kanchi, Dwaraka, and Puri ascribe the dates 509 - 477 BCE to Adi Shankara. The Shrinigeri Sharada Pitham, on the other hand, accepts the 788-820 CE dates.[25] (See also Mathas).. According to Swami Niranjanananda Saraswati's biography of Adi Shankara, published in his book Sannyasa Darshan, Adi Shankara was born in Kalady, Kerala, in 686, and attained mahasamadhi at Kedarnath, Uttaranchal, in 718.

 

Koti Pranams,

 

Surya

[Guest guest]

Saswati, I have no words....

 

God bless you.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, "Saswati B. Ramaswami"

<saswati_ramaswami wrote:

>

> Dearest Ramya, Chris and Senka,

>

> Thank you both so much for your posts. Your words have soothed my

pain. I

> am trying now to just live without judgement, mostly of myself. I

find that

> I am more likely think unkind, mean thoughts about myself than

anyone else

> could ever think of me. Throughout my childhood, these thoughts

protected

> me and I am grateful for them. I tried to be ultra perfect, ultra

good and

> voices inside me would shout out whenever I wasn't performing at 110%.

> Because of this inner voice, I probably got beaten a little less and

maybe

> it even saved my life. But now I don't need those voices anymore,

so I am

> trying to love myself and be thankful to God for all the things that

I have

> and am, knowing that things are just as they should be. If I ever

come to

> accept myself in the here and now, memories of past suffering may

fade away.

> It is so wonderful to have this support from all of you. I am so

Blessed to

> be in contact with you and to, of course, to know Maa and Swamiji.

Jai Maa.

>

> By the way, Ramya, could you please expand on the japa practice you

> described earlier? Is there a "sadness and happy" bija mantra that

you use?

> Or do you just use your bija mantra and think the two words as you

do japa?

>

> Love,

>

> Saswati

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you should ask her....and resolve to do whatever she says.

 

God bless you.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

, senka parks <swsaj wrote:

>

> okay...so i just read this after posting my last mesage

>

> and you have spoken to my soul! that is what i actually do...i

wallow in my self pity. this is what i do the minute i wake. i am in

much pain in the morning, and it takes about two hours to get out of

bed. i take pain releif first and move so slow. and all the while i am

thinking about how i do not wish to live another day. i do since i

have family. but they will move on and will i still be surrounded in

this pity i have for this material self?

>

> i am deeply helped by this posting. and i do need sadana. but what

is good sadana? i used to chant a mantra. but was so rote after some

years. it became a chore and empty....my heart was so black. but what

is a good mantra? what do i think of? can i let my spirit dance or is

this indulgence. i have been led so many ways, and i only wish for

truth in my heart. and shree maa is this to me. how do i serve her?

>

> in warmth

> senka

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

Senka,

>

> How do I, who have so many more blessings than you, advise you? I

> cannot hope to truly understand your situation, the daily struggles

> you endure. I can only offer that which I have, and leave it to you to

> do as you are able, and leave what doesn't really apply. Please

> forgive me if I say the wrong thing...

>

> It is natural to wonder why. It is normal to chafe under the burden of

> our karmas, and the limitations of this existence. But it seems it has

> perhaps gone too far for you, that the wondering and the chafing have

> themselves become the burden?

>

> You must try to let go of this shame and self-pity. I know (believe me

> I know) it is hard when such feelings have become so much a part of

> the mind. They constantly come bubbling up, coloring our every

> thought, making us miserable. They are not who you are - even though

> it may seem that way.

>

> The past must learn to remain in the past. This will be very hard for

> you, too, but it is necessary.

>

> (I feel like I'm writing to myself here!)

>

> You have not failed in your spiritual journey until you drop this

> physical body and stand before God and She says you have failed. Until

> then there is always the opportunity for change, for renewed effort,

> for grace.

>

> Purification of the mind and heart are necessary for you to be able to

> be happy and let go of all this. Put yourself at the feet of God and

> stay there. When your mind pulls you away, go back. That is the

only way.

>

> To do this it is necessary to establish a regular discipline. For

> disruptive thoughts and feelings I find mantra japa or path

> (recitation of scripture) very helpful. But puja is good too for

> distracting a darkened mind and leading it toward beauty and devotion.

> And always, there is prayer.

>

> Sadhana is a commitment, and it requires effort and time. But just as

> it took years for your mind to store up so much pain that it will not

> let you rest now, so it will take some time to burn all that up. But

> if you approach your sadhana, whatever it is, with faith and devotion,

> and practice it diligently, it will help you. It needn't be anything

> too complicated or difficult, either. Adapt your discipline to

> whatever your body will allow you to do.

>

> You might give some thought to perhaps writing to Maa or Swamiji and

> telling them a little about yourself and ask what you should practice.

> You can email them via a link on the main website www.shreemaa.org.

>

> I'm very happy you're here, and if anything I have written is of help

> to you, I am happy I was here to help. God bless you!

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , senka parks <swsaj@> wrote:

> >

> > this post spoke to my heart

> > and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group.

> i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read

> everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and

> delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if

> i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now

> so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so

> selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the

> opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone

> and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

> >

> > i seem to always yearn for some kind of peace. to be realized...but

> in my mind it is pictured as a utopia. an inner utopia...maybe i am so

> off track and that is why i feel i have failed in spiritual life.

> where do i go from here?

> >

> > in warmth

> > senka

> >

> > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> Saswati,

> >

> > Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

> > last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are

this old,

> > but your post just pulled at my heart.

> >

> > May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

> > She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror

of it

> > you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

> > within.

> >

> > I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

> > simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

> >

> > Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to

accept

> > that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

> >

> > That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as

individual.

> > This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

> > individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

> >

> > Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

> > had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world

(that was

> > from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

> > practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so

we can

> > make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

> >

> > So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

> > famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

> > difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely

experience

> > the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

> > lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

> >

> > These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

> > the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very

> mysterious.

> >

> > There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to

me to

> > deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell,

as it

> > were), and people in difficult environments who through their

goodness

> > and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a

better life

> > in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

> > Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

> > attains to the consciousness of divinity.

> >

> > There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

> > group karma interact with individual karma?

> >

> > It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a

famine

> > is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

> > place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

> > violence or other suffering. But individuals in both

circumstances do

> > experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

> > violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

> > and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

> > think, can only be explained by individual karma.

> >

> > You asked:

> > it is pssible that in my last life I did

> > > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> sins?

> >

> > My short answer to that would be "Yes."

> >

> > But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

> > "something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

> > here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

> > neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

> > open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

> > circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

> > requirement for them.

> >

> > Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

> > lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

> > cannot comprehend.

> >

> > So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

> > experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole

> suffers.

> >

> > Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent

neighborhood

> > in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

> > walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

> > beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

> > wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

> > and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility)

being

> > played out individually, because of an unwise choice of

activities on

> > the part of the man.

> >

> > On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

> > person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

> > surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

> >

> > Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

> > explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

> > karma against death or injury that despite all the others being

killed

> > she survived without a scratch.

> >

> > On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

> > How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

> > "scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

> > very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

> > possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

> > circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely

would have

> > continued in their bodies for a time.

> >

> > All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't

have "the

> > answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see

them.

> > Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

> >

> > I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

> > your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

> > that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the

world's.

> >

> > Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a

long,

> > long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

> > with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

> > much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

> > regular sadhana.

> >

> > You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

> > for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of

prana

> > in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

> > can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense

emotion

> > will be less disruptive.

> >

> > Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

> > beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better

learning

> > to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

> > scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

> > little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

> >

> > I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

> > sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in

your

> > place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I

cannot say.

> > But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause

of any

> > of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

> > circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

> > circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

> >

> > May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the

fire of

> > knowledge and devotion.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , "sbramaswami"

> > <saswati_ramaswami@> wrote:

> > >

> > > What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

> > part. I have a question

> > > regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can

happen

> > to a person and how

> > > to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have

some

> > very traumatic, violent

> > > experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what

do I

> > do? How do I

> > > reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling

myself

> > that there is a greater

> > > reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is

pssible

> > that in my last life I did

> > > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> > sins? It certainly

> > > doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved

this way

> > toward another being.

> > > Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

> > feel anger and bitterness

> > > toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

> > and forgive him, as he

> > > was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

> > experiences come up, I feel

> > > tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this?

Do I

> > just surrender to the

> > > pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking

"WHY", as

> > I have been trying,

> > > unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

> > torture? How does this

> > > type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

> > there wasn't a different

> > > way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

> > respect" to these

> > > memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know

that the

> > ultimate answer is to

> > > learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga.

This is

> > my greatest goal,

> > > though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

> > would be so appreciated.

> > > Much love and respect for all.

> > >

> > > Saswati

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada

> Messenger with Voice

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Share your photos with the people who matter at Canada Photos

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Monica,

 

I would suggest starting with a beginner Siva or Durga Puja or Ganesh.

And start reading the Chandi to see what the whole battle is

about....it's engrossing in English and transforming in Sanskrit.

You can receive all the help and guidance you need right here!

 

jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa,

Gauri

[Guest guest]

how do i ask?

i am very dry and ignorant. a beginner in spirit journies.

 

i dreamed last night of a womans voice

she said

 

why do you weep for your karma?

rejoice that you can give back what you have taken.

you can not remember, untill you awaken. rejoice

and you will find the real compassion.the unconditional love.

this can stem only from the unconditioned soul. let this fill

your heart, and let go of the obstacles,

for holding on binds you to them

 

your thoughts

are your prison

but they are not you

your body is your burden

but it is not you

your conditions are your nature

but they are not you

rejoice and awaken!

 

and i certainly did wake up. i believe dreams are our symbolic unconsciousness. and suppose that maybe my mind is trying to work it all out. seems easier said than done. but then so is recovery from illness. especially one that goes into remission only to jump back into relapses. but i am deeply humbled and softend by many posts i am reading. and also it is sobering to the self indulged mind i carry this lifetime.

 

in warmth

senka

 

 

 

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Perhaps you should ask her....and resolve to do whatever she says.

 

God bless you.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

, senka parks <swsaj wrote:

>

> okay...so i just read this after posting my last mesage

>

> and you have spoken to my soul! that is what i actually do...i

wallow in my self pity. this is what i do the minute i wake. i am in

much pain in the morning, and it takes about two hours to get out of

bed. i take pain releif first and move so slow. and all the while i am

thinking about how i do not wish to live another day. i do since i

have family. but they will move on and will i still be surrounded in

this pity i have for this material self?

>

> i am deeply helped by this posting. and i do need sadana. but what

is good sadana? i used to chant a mantra. but was so rote after some

years. it became a chore and empty....my heart was so black. but what

is a good mantra? what do i think of? can i let my spirit dance or is

this indulgence. i have been led so many ways, and i only wish for

truth in my heart. and shree maa is this to me. how do i serve her?

>

> in warmth

> senka

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

Senka,

>

> How do I, who have so many more blessings than you, advise you? I

> cannot hope to truly understand your situation, the daily struggles

> you endure. I can only offer that which I have, and leave it to you to

> do as you are able, and leave what doesn't really apply. Please

> forgive me if I say the wrong thing...

>

> It is natural to wonder why. It is normal to chafe under the burden of

> our karmas, and the limitations of this existence. But it seems it has

> perhaps gone too far for you, that the wondering and the chafing have

> themselves become the burden?

>

> You must try to let go of this shame and self-pity. I know (believe me

> I know) it is hard when such feelings have become so much a part of

> the mind. They constantly come bubbling up, coloring our every

> thought, making us miserable. They are not who you are - even though

> it may seem that way.

>

> The past must learn to remain in the past. This will be very hard for

> you, too, but it is necessary.

>

> (I feel like I'm writing to myself here!)

>

> You have not failed in your spiritual journey until you drop this

> physical body and stand before God and She says you have failed. Until

> then there is always the opportunity for change, for renewed effort,

> for grace.

>

> Purification of the mind and heart are necessary for you to be able to

> be happy and let go of all this. Put yourself at the feet of God and

> stay there. When your mind pulls you away, go back. That is the

only way.

>

> To do this it is necessary to establish a regular discipline. For

> disruptive thoughts and feelings I find mantra japa or path

> (recitation of scripture) very helpful. But puja is good too for

> distracting a darkened mind and leading it toward beauty and devotion.

> And always, there is prayer.

>

> Sadhana is a commitment, and it requires effort and time. But just as

> it took years for your mind to store up so much pain that it will not

> let you rest now, so it will take some time to burn all that up. But

> if you approach your sadhana, whatever it is, with faith and devotion,

> and practice it diligently, it will help you. It needn't be anything

> too complicated or difficult, either. Adapt your discipline to

> whatever your body will allow you to do.

>

> You might give some thought to perhaps writing to Maa or Swamiji and

> telling them a little about yourself and ask what you should practice.

> You can email them via a link on the main website www.shreemaa.org.

>

> I'm very happy you're here, and if anything I have written is of help

> to you, I am happy I was here to help. God bless you!

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , senka parks <swsaj@> wrote:

> >

> > this post spoke to my heart

> > and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group.

> i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read

> everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and

> delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if

> i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now

> so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so

> selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the

> opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone

> and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

> >

> > i seem to always yearn for some kind of peace. to be realized...but

> in my mind it is pictured as a utopia. an inner utopia...maybe i am so

> off track and that is why i feel i have failed in spiritual life.

> where do i go from here?

> >

> > in warmth

> > senka

> >

> > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@> wrote:

> Saswati,

> >

> > Please forgive me for replying to this post late. I have missed the

> > last few days. Generally, I don't respond when the posts are

this old,

> > but your post just pulled at my heart.

> >

> > May Divine Mother bless you! May She help you to understand, and may

> > She help you to accept what has happened to you, and the horror

of it

> > you endure again and again as the images of it keep bubbling up from

> > within.

> >

> > I am not an expert on karma, so please accept what I have to say as

> > simply my own imperfect conception (an educated one, I hope).

> >

> > Shree Maa has said that nothing happens by accident. I have to

accept

> > that (though I admit part of me rebels at that).

> >

> > That said, Swami Rama said that karma is group as well as

individual.

> > This makes sense to me, since much of what we experience as

> > individuals reflects the state of the world we live in.

> >

> > Swami Satyananda said after the tsunami in South Asia that Bhur Devi

> > had shivered under the weight of the suffering in the world

(that was

> > from memory-probably not his exact words). Maa asks that we do our

> > practices for the benefit of the world, saying that if we do so

we can

> > make this world a beautiful, peaceful place.

> >

> > So, we have people in poor countries who are experiencing wars and

> > famines, who generally suffer a great deal, whose lives are very

> > difficult, and people in countries like the USA who largely

experience

> > the normal pains of human life, death, loss, and illness, but whose

> > lives are otherwise peaceful and easy.

> >

> > These two experiences of life are diametrically opposed, and yet, if

> > the sages are correct, they are linked. It is very deep, very

> mysterious.

> >

> > There are many people living, say, here in the USA, who seem to

me to

> > deserve to live in more difficult circumstances (closer to hell,

as it

> > were), and people in difficult environments who through their

goodness

> > and ability to inspire those around them seem to deserve a

better life

> > in better surroundings. How does one make sense of such things.

> > Ultimately, I think it is a matter of faith, until such time as one

> > attains to the consciousness of divinity.

> >

> > There is, however, one final piece to this puzzle of karma. How does

> > group karma interact with individual karma?

> >

> > It is readily apparent that one living in a poor place during a

famine

> > is more likely to go hungry or become ill. One living in a peaceful

> > place with a good economy is less likely to become a victim of

> > violence or other suffering. But individuals in both

circumstances do

> > experience the opposite of what is generally true of the group,

> > violence and suffering in the midst of peace and plenty, and health

> > and plenty in the midst of poverty and famine. These differences, I

> > think, can only be explained by individual karma.

> >

> > You asked:

> > it is pssible that in my last life I did

> > > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> sins?

> >

> > My short answer to that would be "Yes."

> >

> > But I don't think it's quite as simple as saying you must have been

> > "something so evil". I think (remember, it's just me thinking

> > here)that our group karma (and group karma includes not just our

> > neighborhood, city, and country, but ultimately the world) leaves us

> > open as individuals to the experience of certain unpleasant

> > circumstances, even if we don't, individually, have a strong karmic

> > requirement for them.

> >

> > Remember, if the sages are right, we have all of us lived countless

> > lives, and so have a great store of karmas we carry from lives we

> > cannot comprehend.

> >

> > So, in the absence of any contradicting individual karma, we might

> > experience great suffering, simply because the world as a whole

> suffers.

> >

> > Think of it this way. If a man from a peaceful, affluent

neighborhood

> > in the states goes into a "bad" area of town late at night and just

> > walks around looking wealthy, he is likely to be robbed and perhaps

> > beaten or killed. If he had stayed in his own neighborhood it likely

> > wouldn't have happened. This is an example of group karma (violence

> > and poverty in the world-for which we all share responsibility)

being

> > played out individually, because of an unwise choice of

activities on

> > the part of the man.

> >

> > On the other hand, if there is a strong element of good karma in a

> > person, it doesn't seem to matter what her circumstances, her

> > surroundings, are. Nothing "bad" will happen.

> >

> > Take the example of a plane crash. All are killed but one. Who can

> > explain such an occurrence except that the person had such a strong

> > karma against death or injury that despite all the others being

killed

> > she survived without a scratch.

> >

> > On the other hand, take the example of a plane crash where all died.

> > How unlikely is it that an entire planeload of individuals were

> > "scheduled" to die on that specific day, or even that year? I think

> > very unlikely. It seems far more likely to me that none of them

> > possessed a strong enough karma for living to escape their

> > circumstances. Had they stayed at home, most of them likely

would have

> > continued in their bodies for a time.

> >

> > All of this may seem somewhat disjointed, and it is. I don't

have "the

> > answers". These are simply the various aspects of karma as I see

them.

> > Somewhere in the midst of them all lies the reality.

> >

> > I know that an understanding of karma will not go far toward easing

> > your pain, but it will help. Especially, I think, you can understand

> > that on some level your suffering is not yours alone, but the

world's.

> >

> > Post traumatic experiences can be very difficult. It can take a

long,

> > long time (if ever) to become "yourself" again. It will get better

> > with time, even if you do nothing, but one will heal much faster and

> > much better if she can open her heart and develop a firm faith and a

> > regular sadhana.

> >

> > You mentioned yoga and meditation. I think hatha yoga would be good

> > for you. The postures and the pranayama help unblock the flow of

prana

> > in the subtle body, which is also the vehicle for the emotions. You

> > can unblock the pain and strengthen the nadis so that intense

emotion

> > will be less disruptive.

> >

> > Meditation practice, on the other hand, in my opinion, would be less

> > beneficial that other things. You'ld probably do a lot better

learning

> > to do puja or practicing regular mantra japa or path (recitation of

> > scripture). Later, when the emotions and mind have been purified a

> > little from this stress, meditation will come of its own accord.

> >

> > I cannot answer "why" for you, except to say that in this world

> > sometimes we suffer. Should God have chosen another to suffer in

your

> > place? Are you any less, or more deserving than another? I

cannot say.

> > But this much I have from the sages, that God is not the cause

of any

> > of the suffering in this world, we are. Just as we create the

> > circumstances for suffering in this world, so can we create the

> > circumstances for peace. This is Shree Maa's desire for us.

> >

> > May God bless you and help you to burn this experience in the

fire of

> > knowledge and devotion.

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , "sbramaswami"

> > <saswati_ramaswami@> wrote:

> > >

> > > What an interesting discussion. Thank you all for letting me take

> > part. I have a question

> > > regarding Chris' earlier thoughts on whether "bad" things can

happen

> > to a person and how

> > > to allow oneself to make friends with all experiences. I have

some

> > very traumatic, violent

> > > experiences in my past. When these memories come back up what

do I

> > do? How do I

> > > reconcile myself with them? I try to accept them by telling

myself

> > that there is a greater

> > > reason for everything, but I just don't understando. it is

pssible

> > that in my last life I did

> > > something so evil that my I am now the victim of my own previous

> > sins? It certainly

> > > doesn't bring me solace to think that I could have behaved

this way

> > toward another being.

> > > Also, I do not know how to feel about my offender. Is it right to

> > feel anger and bitterness

> > > toward him or the things that he did to me? Or should I accept him

> > and forgive him, as he

> > > was only a vehicle for carrying out my karma? When these

> > experiences come up, I feel

> > > tremendous sadness and instability. How do I deal with this?

Do I

> > just surrender to the

> > > pain, as I have been trying? How do I try to stop asking

"WHY", as

> > I have been trying,

> > > unsuccessfully? What can be the greater lessson in experiencing

> > torture? How does this

> > > type of experience help a person grow? I keep asking God whether

> > there wasn't a different

> > > way that I could have learned the same lesson. How do I "show

> > respect" to these

> > > memories, to this time in my life, to my offender? I know

that the

> > ultimate answer is to

> > > learn to detach from all of this through mediation and yoga.

This is

> > my greatest goal,

> > > though sometimes I feel I am so far from reaching it. Any advice

> > would be so appreciated.

> > > Much love and respect for all.

> > >

> > > Saswati

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada

> Messenger with Voice

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Share your photos with the people who matter at Canada Photos

>

 

 

 

 

Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada Messenger with Voice

[Guest guest]

it is so nice to read about people starting out. and askng good questions.

 

so many years i thought i was spiritual...or at least following a spiritual path...and then i found myself looking at this person who was not really practicing anything at all except self deceit. and now i am beginning anew as my body is quiting. its funny but when i had my health i pursued spirit, but got caught in maya. in family, jealousy, pain, coveting...travel, education, etc.

 

and now i have my children around me mostly grown, and i see them on their own unique paths,that they as unique entities have chosen. and isee they belong to something greater than me. we dont have control over when we leave this planet or for how long any one stays. my leaving will happen so i have had to let go. and to let go of relatonships. and to let love grow unfetterd and uninhibeted. which for me has not been easy. and more than once i have lamented very loudly. and become overwhelmed by depression. but i was lamenting what about my children? who will care for them? why cant i see my grand babies grow up? why have never found my soul mate to love? and the answere was a shower of love i never felt before. it permeated through out my being. my atoms themselves were in bliss and for one small moment i felt a peace and timeless bliss. that said it will all go on. no one is indespensible. but evry one has a purpose. ithink i felt that it was time to let Goddess...to let

God....to let the spiritual world lead.so that was my taste that led me to this group. but im dry as anything...like a desert! but i know that something exists that is so amazing, as to be indescribable.

 

in warmth

senka

 

 

 

Monica Thakrar <monicathakrar (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Hello - I am new to this site too. I recently joined about a week or so ago and have been reading the postings. I feel similar to this email below, except I do feel the pull towards the spiritual. I do have a hard time however controlling my mind and knowing what the right thing to do is. I have begun to take classes in the Bhagavad Gita and have just learned about karma yoga, but I would love some advice on prayers, mantras, other readings to follow and feel more peace. Right now my mind is a bit scattered. I have similar relationship concerns as some others - how to stay in a healthy relationship and not get pulled by the senses.

Monica

 

 

 

senka parks <swsaj (AT) (DOT) ca>

 

 

Re: [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Making friends...

Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:45:57 -0400 (EDT)

 

i had just put up a pictuer of Krishna today

and opend my email to see this.

so lovely :-)

 

i would have to say i am not the person i was so many years ago

and i was a very self destructive and angry person. but i feel out of

touch spiritually. like im detached and floating and just fantasizing

about being a monk or ascetic (sp?)...i want to be renounced

and not lament. i desire to see with spiritual eyes. but i just seem to end up

in the same place. alone and bound by my illness. no matter what i seem to do i can not see beyond my ego. and that is sad to me as well. since its this ego i have wrestled with and learned to tame. and yet spirit eludes me. i just cant feel it. but i do so want to...please forgive my self centerdness. i am at a point where i dont know how to follow my path. it is dry...and lonely. and i am small minded.

 

you can see how neophyte i am. i know absolutely nothing about real spirituality. i dont even know how to pray properly or what to read. any advice? i can see the Bagavad gita is a place to begin. i thank you for this

 

in warmth

senka

 

Gary <aniruddhan > wrote:

 

 

this post spoke to my heart

and i appreciate the blessings of those who write in to this group. i do not write much as my hands do not work very well. but i read everything. and this spoke to me deeply. karma is an intricate and delicate force. i always wonder...what did i do and why do i suffer if i dont know what i did. why was my life so filled with abuse, and now so much physical pain with this illness?..and i often think i am so selfish and small to think that. and i should be glad i have the opportunity to "burn off" karma. but i still lament. i am still alone and hurting. and this makes me feel so much shame.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I have asked myself the same questions in the past. Sometimes we learn the lessons we need to even if we don't realize what is happening. For example, intense suffering may awaken empathy for others who suffer, which can cause us to act in a more thoughtful and considerate manner in the future. Then we will no longer do those things that bring suffering upon ourselves. Another blessing behind suffering is that it can teach us to not seek our true happiness from anything that is external, including our relationships or other attachments. Some words of Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita have me helped get through such difficult times:

"Bring me thy failure. Find refuge in me. Let fruits of labour go, renouncing hope for Me, with lowliest heart, so shall thou come; for though to know is more than diligence, yet worship better is than knowing, and renouncing better still. Near to renunciation, very near, dwelleth eternal peace." Chapter 12

"Precious thou art to Me, right well beloved! Listen! I tell you for thy comfort this. Give Me thy heart! Adore Me! Serve Me! Cling in faith and love and reverence to Me! So shalt thou come to Me! I promise true, for thou art sweet to Me... Fly to Me alone! Make Me thy single refuge! I will free thy soul from all sins! Be of good cheer!" Chapter 18

 

 

 

 

 

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