Udayananda's Tripurari Swami article from Chakra

[Kripamoya 0]

 

Jagat,

 

Are you still working for Tripurari?

 

?

 

from what I have heard, Tripurari Maharaja consulted with Jagat on siddhanta and Sanskrit terminology in the publishing of some books.

 

Jagat, which books of Tripurari Maharaja did you help him with?

 

Tripurari Maharaja apparently looks up to you for confirmation and support of his preaching concepts.

 

Tripurari Maharaja has become quite open in his older years.

A lot of devotees can never really accept you since you rejected your initiation from Srila Prabhupada to accept siddha-pranali from Lalita Prasad.

 

Tripurari Maharaja seems to be able to overlook that and put you to work helping him write books for selling in bookstores.

[Guest guest]

<i>Going through four marriages in a lifetime (while claiming utmost level of Prabhupa-ananuga) is not exactly the model behavior Prabhupada had in mind for his followers.</i>

 

Five, (at least), if one counts the polygamous marriage of convenience in England, for which he had to flee that country in the end.

 

Uday, please leave Srila Sridhara Maharaja out of this dispute. It does not reflect well on you to say that you would offer your "respectful obeisances" unto him, then leave, never to return. That is offensive. By this, you insinuate that you are above him, that your association is superiour. Acaryas are persons, and although they agree on siddhanta, they may not see eye to eye on every little detail. Please learn to reconcile apparent personal differences. Otherwise, you run the risk of being a dinosaur, an "institutional consciousness" type of person, not a "God conscious" one.

[Guest guest]

 

some books are written for preaching, some books are written for capital gain and financial needs.

 

it's up to the observers to determine which books were published with pure motive and which books were published for money making schemes.

 

In the case of books, "observers" means "readers". Read da book. Aesthetic Vedanta is just as the back cover says, a masterpiece.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

In the case of books, "observers" means "readers". Read da book. Aesthetic Vedanta is just as the back cover says, a masterpiece.

You have to be a master to write a masterpiece.

 

I am sure I could find some discrepancies in the books of Tripurari Maharaja, if I read the books.

 

I love Tripurari Maharaja, but I see him as a Godbrother and not a siksha guru.(I don't read his books)

 

I remember back to the days when Maharaja was still trying to get his guruship in ISKCON and I was hoping that he would stop that and take shelter of Sridhar Maharaja.

 

He came to Prabhupada before me, but I came to Sridhar Maharaja before him.

 

He was trying to get his GBC rubber stamp (guru) in ISKCON, but they wouldn't give it to him.

 

I was very glad when he got turned away by ISKCON and was forced to seek shelter of Sridhar Maharaja.

 

He is my Godbrother, not my guru.

 

It was his best buddy Kalki das that kicked me out of the Chicago temple for listening to the tapes of Sridhar Maharaja.

They put me out on the streets without a dollar to my name.

[Guest guest]

 

He came to Prabhupada before me, but I came to Sridhar Maharaja before him.

 

He is bringing Prabhupada and Sridhara Maharaja back in Iskcon before you.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

He is bringing Prabhupada and Sridhara Maharaja back in Iskcon before you.

 

Very nice!

 

Please tell me more about how Tripurari Maharaja is making headway to bring Sridhar Maharaja BACK into ISKCON.

 

Considering that Sridhar Maharaja has been gone since 1988, I would find it quite amazing that Tripurari Maharaja could bring him into ISKCON as a spiritual master.

[Guest guest]

 

Very nice!

 

Please tell me more about how Tripurari Maharaja is making headway to bring Sridhar Maharaja BACK into ISKCON.

 

Considering that Sridhar Maharaja has been gone since 1988, I would find it quite amazing that Tripurari Maharaja could bring him into ISKCON as a spiritual master.

 

Yes, amazing considering the resistance. But its a fact that Srila Prabhupada intended for his followers in Iskcon to take Srila Sridhara maharaja's siksha. Tripurari is making this happen. He comes around Iskcon communities speaking of that "land of gurus..."

[Guest guest]

 

that "land of gurus..."

 

And he ain't talking about Iskcon Mayapur.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

And he ain't talking about Iskcon Mayapur.

 

Tripurari Maharaja is a star in the sky of the Hare Krishna movement.

 

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Sun and the Moon.

 

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Rupa and Raghunatha.

 

Nitai-Gaurahari.................

[Guest guest]

 

Tripurari Maharaja is a star in the sky of the Hare Krishna movement.

 

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Sun and the Moon.

 

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Rupa and Raghunatha.

 

Nitai-Gaurahari.................

 

I miss them too.

 

je ânilo prema-dhana korunâ pracur

Who brought the gift of love, was full compassion?

 

heno prabhu kothâ gelâ âcârya-thhâkur

Where has a master like S'rînîvâsa Âcârya gone ?

 

kâhâ mora swarûp rûpa kâhâ sanâtan

Where are Svarûpa Dâmodara, Rupa Gosvâmî and Sanâtana?

 

kâhâ dâsa raghunâtha patita-pâvan

Where is Raghunâtha Dâsa, the savior of the fallen?

 

kâhâ mora bhaththa-juga kâhâ kavirâj

Where are Raghunâtha Bhaththa Gopâla Bhaththa, and Krishnadâsa Kavirâja?

 

eka-kâle kothâ gelâ gorâ nata-râj

Where did Lord Gaurânga, the great dancer, suddenly go?

 

pâshâne kuthibo mâthâ anale pas'ibo

I'll bang my head against the rock and enter the fire,

 

gaurânga gunera nidhi kothâ gele pâbo

Where to find Lord Gaurânga, the reservoir of all that's good?

 

se-saba sangîra sange je koilo bilâs

Unable to obtain the association of Lord Gaurânga

 

se-sanga nâ pâiyâ kânde narottama dâs

and the companions to His pastimes, Narottama Dâsa simply weeps.

[Guest guest]

I for one am glad to see Jagat posting here.

[Guest guest]

 

I for one am glad to see Jagat posting here.

I appreciate these kind words.

 

As to the specifics of my work with and for Tripurari Maharaj, I first volunteered some service by proofreading the Sanskrit for the Tattva-sandarbha. I provided materials that were used in Aesthetic Vedanta, the Gita, and Gopala Tapani. I also did a little proofreading, gave comments and feedback.

 

But don't overblow my relationship with Maharaj. His talent lies in making his own decisions about what to write or say.

[Guest guest]

I, too, was told personally to write. Srila Prabhupada utilized the talents of his disciples, he did not put them into straight-jackets. (BTW He also never said there will be no more gurus, or that none of his disciples will ever be gurus).

 

Im always hounded by those who demand quotes. You know what I say? Quit reading, log out, and go grab one of his books. If you are still reading something I wrote, thats your problem not mine.

 

If one has intelligence, he will reazd the words of a disciple of a guru, and cross check to see if the same message is intact, which is what is REALLY said at the end of Revelation of St John the Divine. There is no plague against one other than those in those books called the bible for writing. St John clearly says the curse is on those who change the message.

 

Anyway, some value tape recordings more than realized bonafide disciples of a bonafide spiritual master anyway. For those who dont want to hear from anyone other than Prabhupada, may I ask, what are you doing reading my stuff? Did Srila Prabhupada not profide enough for you to sink your teeth into? Dont be a hypocrite, renounce your keyboard.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist 1]

LOL Mahaksa.

 

And to strech it another yard, don't repeat what you have learned from Prabhupada's books and tapes and years of chanting Hare Krsna to anyone you meet for that is also acting as guru in the form of instructing others.

 

Right from the begginning Srila Prabhupada was engaging his disciples to act on guru platform. People that say "No more gurus after Prabhupada" haven't got a friggin' clue as to what Prabhupada's mission was. To think he was making disciples and not gurus is an error, for only proper disciple can be a proper guru. Prabhupada never stopped being a disciple of Bhaktisidhanta when he started formaly accepting disciples.

[Guest guest]

In fact, he also teaches the way we find master is to look for disciple (servant). So different from other schools, this descending path. Remember "cool water" by da kine? Seeks the lowest point, this is how disciples act, and if they are perfect servants, then all who hear from them are saved.

 

Guru searches are impossible if one is looking for the highest, because guru is under the straw in the street.

 

Hare Krsna, yer surf-ant, mahak.

[Guest guest]

In Defense of Tripurari Swami

 

by Madan Gopal das

 

Posted July 9, 2006

 

I would like to respond to the charges that Udayananda das has levelled against Tripurari Swami in his recent article. First, I would like to thank him for the opportunity to do some research in our rich Gaudiya tradition and for the invaluable exercise of intelligence in discriminating good philosophy from sentiment. I recommend it to one and all. Additionally, I am grateful for the opportunity to defend a Vaishnava against unwarranted criticism.

 

The alleged 1995 Krsna Balarama Swami tape that Udayananda prabhu extensively quotes from is not in Swami B.V. Tripurari's tape ministry, so I was not able to verify the accuracy, the context or even the existence of such a tape.

 

In answering Udayananda prabhu's article, I will summarize his allegations and respond to them in turn.

 

1. Tripurari Swami is said to be stealing devotees from ISKCON and taking them to his Gaudiya Vaishnava Society.

 

The people recently initiated in North Carolina are not people who joined or were living in an ISKCON temple. As we all do, they have their unique story of coming to Krsna Consciousness. Whether they are treated as being part of ISKCON or not is up to the broad- or narrow-mindedness of ISKCON devotees.

 

Unfortunately, society-consciousness taking precedence over Krsna consciousness dictates to many devotees that Tripurari Swami is not an ISKCON devotee and therefore his disciples have stepped out. What is sure is that Tripurari Swami has not preached to these people to leave their ISKCON services or to stop their cooperation with ISKCON. Many of Swami's disciples render valuable services in ISKCON temples where they are welcomed.

 

In regard to the general principle of accepting a guru, please consider this advice from Srila Prabhupada: "Sri Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions. One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 1.35 purport.)

 

All of these initiates did accept a guru who they felt spoke the truths of Krsna bhakti to them. They left ecclesiastical convention aside and followed their hearts, despite the unfortunate antagonism they received.

 

2. Srila Prabhupada instructed time and again to simply hear from him (not from any other, supposedly including Sridhara Maharaja).

 

As with any contentious philosophical issue, it does everyone enormous benefit to be well informed before speaking such broad statements. Srila Prabhupada did make some warnings about association with his godbrothers. He also glorified some of them. If you do the research, you will find that he was particularly fond of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. As for spoiling his disciples' spiritual life, one may reconcile that statement with a few of the following, noting that the timings of these statements extend from the beginning to the end of Prabhupada's ISKCON pastimes:

 

"...the most highly competent of all my godbrothers. This is B. R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru. If you are serious about the advancement of your spiritual life, I advise you to go to Sridhara Maharaja and I will feel that you are safe. You can also make arrangements for your other godbrothers to go there in the future." (Letter of Srila Prabhupada to Hrsikesa, January 1, 1969)

 

"Our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha I wanted to organize another organization making Sridhara Maharaja as the head." (Srila Prabhupada Conversation, March 17, 1973)

 

"What Govinda Maharaja (Sridhara Swami's successor) has said is true. I consider his guru as my siksa guru." (Srila Prabhupada, at the ISKCON Mayapur Candrodaya Mandira opening ceremony, 1974)

 

Srila Prabhupada visiting Sridhar Maharaj's matha in Navadvipa: "Yes, and they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and an elevator. My disciples are telling me that they will build a house for me. So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am traveling around, so if you are there, they can get some guidance. So, Maharaja, please, give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you." (Excerpt of 1977 conversation)

 

3. Tripurari Swami says he takes a little from Srila Prabhupada and a little from Sridhara Swami and then adds a little himself to give us what he refers to as "adding a new product."

 

It could be argued that every guru does this, and that Prabhupada demanded this. It is called preaching according to one's realization. We read the books of Prabhupada, we hear from sadhus, we read the teachings of previous acaryas, and if we are fortunate we have some realization and present it to others. Prabhupada did say he wanted us all to become guru. In a sense we are all expected to have our own "product" (our bhakti-lata), and we must further the family business of preaching through sharing our realizations.

 

4. Tripurari Swami supposedly gave up the specific instruction he received from Srila Prabhupada (book distribution).

 

Did Tripurari Swami really give up book distribution? It becomes quite apparent from a quick glance over Prabhupada's teachings that he equated book writing and book distribution. Both comprise the brhat-mrdanga. Tripurari Swami has now authored numerous books and is responsible for a huge Internet preaching campaign. He also continues to promote Srila Prabhupada's books. Who can argue that he has not taken advantage of Prabhupada's kindness towards him and expanded his distribution of Krsna-katha? He has successfully expanded his service to Srila Prabhupada.

 

"Now that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness has taken up this task of preaching the cult of Lord Caitanya, its members should not only construct temples in every town and village of the globe but also distribute the books that have already been written and further increase the number of books." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 1.764, purport)

 

"Temple construction is meant for the general populace and neophyte devotees, but the business of advanced and empowered devotees is to write books, publish them and distribute them widely." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 19.133, purport)

 

"You ask one question about the nature of books. I want you to write as my disciples; on this point, Krsna consciousness is not limited. Persons like all of the Gosvamis wrote so many books, Visvanatha Cakravarti and all the acaryas wrote books, and still I am writing books. Similarly, also, my disciples will write." (Srila Prabhupada letter, February 15, 1972)

 

5. Tripurari Swami's book Aesthetic Vedanta is labelled as "disgusting," and general criticisms about the discussion of rasa-lila in the book are offered.

 

Udayananda fails to point out that Aesthetic Vedanta's description of the Rasa-lila is sandwiched between two chapters of philosophy, which enable the reader to understand the lila properly. For example, the first chapter states, "Love directed to Krsna is love properly centred, while worldly love is no more than the demands of the material senses and mind driving the soul to relate with another's outward appearance. In worldly love, the inherent drive or potential for love are categorically different...While reality is Krsna-centred love, the illusory life in the material world is love in the shadow, illicit by way of its being off-centre...One must become a Vedantist to appreciate the aesthetic reality described in these chapters. Without doing so, one runs the risk of misinterpreting the divine lila of Radha-Krsna, equating it with the mundane experience of amorous love....

 

Srila Prabhupada personally told Tripurari Swami that his Krsna book was excellent introductory material and many book distributors must remember selling quite a few of them to the general public. Here is an excerpt from Krsna book removed from its context in the same manner Udayananda has done with Aesthetic Vedanta:

 

"They became filled with attraction for Him, and they began to kiss Him. Some gopis touched Krsna cheek to cheek, and Krsna began to offer them chewed betel nuts from His mouth, which they accepted with great pleasure by kissing... Krsna was dancing beside them, and to alleviate their fatigue they took Sri Krsna's hand and placed it on their raised breasts. Krsna's hand, as well as the breasts of the gopis, are eternally auspicious; therefore when they combined, both of them became spiritually enhanced...Srimad-Bhagavatam thus describes the beauty of the gopis while they were rasa dancing with Krsna...When Krsna touched the different parts of their bodies, the gopis felt surcharged with spiritual energy. They could not adjust their loosened clothes, although they tried to keep them adjusted properly. Their hair and garments became scattered, and their ornaments loosened as they forgot themselves in the company of Krsna. "(Krsna book, chapter 33: Description of the Rasa Dance)

 

Praise for Aesthetic Vedanta from scholars:

 

"Like his learned predecessors in the Gaudiya tradition, he amply demonstrates that love need not be irrational, merely pure." Georg Feuerstein, author of Shambhala Encyclopedia of Yoga.

 

On the back cover, Klaus K. Klostermaier, University Distinguished Professor, Chairman, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Manitoba, states: "Aesthetic Vedanta's beautiful and sensitive language will make the classic rasa-lila accessible to students of spirituality who have no specific background in Indian religions and philosophies. Its reverential approach makes it a religious classic in its own right."

 

Obviously Swami's audience is able to understand that what he is talking about is sacred, not profane.

 

6. "Tripurari Swami's temple/ashrama does not do daily guru puja to Srila Prabhupada; they do not daily chant the Nrsinghadeva prayers..."

 

As Tripurari Swami is not part of ISKCON, he has some liberty in deciding how he would like to conduct his sadhana program. This should not be an issue of contention if, in essence, the philosophy remains unchanged. This idea of following the letter of the law and not the spirit is an enormous obstacle in progressive spiritual pursuit. It is referred to in our philosophy as kanistha mentality. We must move beyond this.

 

After all, Prabhupada's morning program developed over the course of his ISKCON lila. At one time there was no Nrsimha prayers. For some time there was no daily guru puja... If you can present some evidence of how Tripurari Swami's sadhana program is philosophically deviant we will gladly present a reply. Until then, we will continue to advance our Krsna bhakti through his guidance and with appreciation of how ISKCON conducts its program. What is wrong with some variety?

 

"The bona fide teacher of religion is neither any product of nor the favourer of any mechanical system. In his hands no system has likewise the chance of degenerating into a lifeless arrangement. The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur)

 

7. He gives initiations and does not ask all initiates to chant 16 rounds daily, but asks some to chant only 4 rounds.

 

In North Carolina, Swami recently gave initiation to a young woman and asked her to chant 4 rounds. The context in this instance is also important. This woman is a mother of two young children. Her time is consumed with the duties of mothering. She was born into ISKCON and chanted 16 rounds for many years before becoming a mother. This is another issue of substance. A preacher, whether on book distribution or in the position of guru, must fan the spark of bhakti in the faithful. Too many demands at an unreasonable time can kill that most precious faith which is the foundation of bhakti. As guru, Swami is taking responsibility for the jiva's spiritual progress. He would never do something counterproductive to that development.

 

What was Prabhupada's example in this regard? He asked that his followers chant 64 rounds when he started his preaching mission. When they said they could not do it, he reduced the number to 32. When they said they could not do that also he reduced the number to 16 and gave them preaching service to absorb their minds. Really, he wanted constant chanting: Krsna consciousness. The number is not what is important, but the faith in Krsna nama and connection to it through the guru.

 

Swami asked the other two initiates to chant 16 rounds, and he expects that, as her mothering duties lighten up, the devotee spoken of will increase her chanting.

 

"In the Naradiya Purana it is directed, 'One should not accept more than necessary if he is serious about discharging devotional service.' The purport is that one should not neglect following the principles of devotional service, nor should one accept the rulings of devotional service which are more than what he can easily perform. For example, it may be said that one should chant the Hare Krsna mantra at least one hundred thousand times daily on his beads. But if this is not possible, then one must minimize his chanting according to his own capacity." (Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 7. Accepting only what is necessary)

 

"One must diligently complete the chanting of the daily prescribed number of holy names according to one's vow. But another kind of distraction occurs when one is too eager to complete the fixed number of holy names even at the sacrifice of quality. One must therefore always ensure that he chants his rounds sincerely. Also, one should better improve the quality of his chanting rather than try to increase his daily number of rounds for show." (Harinama Cintamani, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur)

 

"By a special stroke of good fortune, a jiva develops enough sraddha to take shelter of the holy name. By regularly chanting a fixed number of holy names with special care and attention, he may, by degrees, progress to anuraga, or spontaneous attraction for the Lord's name. He should chant his prescribed number of rounds on a Tulasi-mala and increase his rounds with time." (Harinama Cintamani, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur)

 

8. Swami Tripurari supposedly sent a devotee some tapes and literature, saying to her: "My Bhagavad-gita is deeper than Prabhupada's."

 

This third-hand story cannot be debated without some verification of its validity.

 

Here is a reference from Swami's own words in his Gita: "The most influential Gaudiya Vaisnava edition was written by my own spiritual master, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, whose Bhagavad-gita As It Is has sold more copies than any other edition to date." (Introduction to Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and Philosophy).

 

9. ISKCON is said to be suffering from over-glorification of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Over-glorification of Prabhupada becomes a fault when philosophy is overshadowed by sentiment. This is the case in much of Udayananda prabhu's argument. Holding to the letter of the law while not understanding the spirit is a fault caused by over-glorification of Prabhupada. Taking his words out of context and risking aparadha to his godbrothers, to other Vaishnavas and to people in general is a fault caused by over-glorification of Prabhupada.

 

The problem with over-glorification of Prabhupada is indeed rampant. The result is that people pick and choose their quotes and justify whole new philosophies in the name of Prabhupada's desire. Is the ritvik conception not the result of over-glorification? What truly glorifies Prabhupada is someone who reads, absorbs and understands his message and not just shouts out loud glorification (or sometimes, villification of Vaishnavas).

 

We should all glorify Prabhupada to the utmost by becoming that moon that he wanted, full of Krsna-conscious light -- not many shooting stars. I would argue that Tripurari Swami has shone like the moon in his service to his gurus, and I request that devotees of every camp should at least honor that, and also honor the descent of bhakti that he has facilitated in his disciples' lives.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

3. Tripurari Swami says he takes a little from Srila Prabhupada and a little from Sridhara Swami and then adds a little himself to give us what he refers to as "adding a new product."

I hope this is just bad phrasing and not an actual concept.

I don't like to hear of Krishna consciousness being referred to as a "product".

 

A product is something sold for commercial consumption for the sake of making financial gain.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen more poverty, simplicty and dependence on Krishna by certain "gurus" around the movement.

 

I don't like to see commercial enterprises, businesses and money making schemes being conducted by "sannyasis".

 

I am looking for the REAL beggar type mendicants, who just depend on Krishna without having to conduct businesses and commercial enterprises.

 

It can be done. I used travel around the movement from one temple to another without money and hitch-hiking around the country.

 

I met lots of nice people and did a lot of preaching.

 

This has always been my idea of what sannyasa should be.

 

Big money, business and profit-making schemes seem to go ill with the concept of total dependence on Krishna.

 

Too much comfort and facility will block self-realization.

[Guest guest]

 

I hope this is just bad phrasing and not an actual concept.

I don't like to hear of Krishna consciousness being referred to as a "product".

 

A product is something sold for commercial consumption for the sake of making financial gain.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen more poverty, simplicty and dependence on Krishna by certain "gurus" around the movement.

 

I don't like to see commercial enterprises, businesses and money making schemes being conducted by "sannyasis".

 

I am looking for the REAL beggar type mendicants, who just depend on Krishna without having to conduct businesses and commercial enterprises.

 

It can be done. I used travel around the movement from one temple to another without money and hitch-hiking around the country.

 

I met lots of nice people and did a lot of preaching.

 

This has always been my idea of what sannyasa should be.

 

Big money, business and profit-making schemes seem to go ill with the concept of total dependence on Krishna.

 

Too much confort and facility will block self-realization.

 

The concept has nothing to do with mundane commercial enterprises, althought terms such as "product" are used. Haven't you ever heard the expression "market of the holy name"? It was used by Bhaktivinoda Thakur who also used "purchase" a lot. This only indicates that the jiva is free to chose, as in a market situation, according to our free will. If we are not free to go to Krsna or to remain here at will, then we are not more spiritual than a coin forged of metal.

[Kripamoya 0]

 

The concept has nothing to do with mundane commercial enterprises, althought terms such as "product" are used. Haven't you ever heard the expression "market of the holy name"? It was used by Bhaktivinoda Thakur who also used "purchase" a lot. This only indicates that the jiva is free to chose, as in a market situation, according to our free will. If we are not free to go to Krsna or to remain here at will, then we are not more spiritual than a coin forged of metal.

But, please don't take Bhaktivinode's metaphorical concepts and use that to justify t-shirt booths at National Parks and selling karmi records and CDs to artificially build temples and facilities through a process other than what one can accomplish through preaching alone.

 

Then we have those guys with huge bank balances that they acquired through using some Gaudiya vaishnava society as a front for making a lot of personal profit without paying any kind of tax on it.

 

These scams and schemes have been going on for a long time, but it's a bad way to build up a preaching mission.

 

Rejecting the schemes and scams and depending totally on Krishna would have resulted in a much greater accomplishment in the preaching field than a compromising, half-hearted money making enterprise of scams and schemes.

[Guest guest]

Tripurari Maharaja is one of the few gurus who supports his matha by preaching alone. None of his brahmacaris go out on the "pick." He agrees that it is best to support the mission by preaching alone. But I wouldn't so harshly criticize devotees who support ashrams by money-making schemes. There were plenty in Srila Prabhupada's time and Srila Sridhara Maharaja was also criticized for how he got some of the money to support his matha, you may recall.

[Guest guest]

 

But, please don't take Bhaktivinode,s metaphorical concepts and use that to justify t-shirt booths at National Parks and selling karmi records and CDs to artificially build temples and facilities through a process other than what one can accomplish through preaching alone.

 

Then we have those guys with huge bank balances that they acquired through using some Gaudiya vaishnava society as a front for making a lot of personal profit without paying any kind of tax on it.

 

These scams and schemes have been going on for a long time, but it's a bad way to build up a preaching mission.

 

Rejecting the schemes and scams and depending totally on Krishna would have resulted in a much greater accomplishment in the preaching field than a compromising, half-hearted money making enterprise of scams and schemes.

 

Well, Prabhupada did say "by hook or by crook" didn't he? But even if we agree that money making enterprises are not advisable for sannyasis, "new product" referred to here by Tripurari is that legitimate license to elaborate on and add to the concepts given by previous teachers. Without such, there is no flow of realization and therefore no real sadhusanga.

[Kripamoya 0]

During my ISKCON days I liked to travel around to different temples. When I felt like I was falling into rut, I wanted to travel.

Many times I simply walked out of a temple with no money and hitch-hiked hundreds of miles to get to another temple.

 

I did not wear my devotee clothes on the road, but I always ended up telling them that I was a Hare Krishna devotee and they always wanted to hear about it.

 

I have had people feed me, give me money for food and even take me home for the night and take me back to the highway the next day.

 

Actually, travelling alone and depending on Krishna is really a lot of fun.

 

Any time I was hungry on the road I just mentioned to someone that I haven't eaten today and they would always give me a dollar or two for some food.

 

It's not hard to survive as a beggar.

 

The beggar lifestyle is actually a very exciting adventure - depending on Krishna every day.

 

These scams and schemes lifestyles are actually miserable and full of stress.

[Guest guest]

 

During my ISKCON days I liked to travel around to different temples. When I felt like I was falling into rut, I wanted to travel.

Many times I simply walked out of a temple with no money and hitch-hiked hundreds of miles to get to another temple.

 

I did not wear my devotee clothes on the road, but I always ended up telling them that I was a Hare Krishna devotee and they always wanted to hear about it.

 

I have had people feed me, give me money for food and even take me home for the night and take me back to the highway the next day.

 

Actually, travelling alone and depending on Krishna is really a lot of fun.

 

Any time I was hungry on the road I just mentioned to someone that I haven't eaten today and they would always give me a dollar or two for some food.

 

It's not hard to survive as a beggar.

 

The beggar lifestyle is actually a very exciting adventure - depending on Krishna every day.

 

These scams and schemes lifestyles are actually miserable and full of stress.

 

Just see, according to the post above, if the idea is that we will endure stress and misery 4-KRISHNA, then the scams and schemes lifestyle would be superior compared to the vagabond lifestyle which brings excitment and adventure.

 

Depending on Krishna has a deeper meaning than not planning one's finances and and future meals.

[Guest guest]

 

Well, Prabhupada did say "by hook or by crook" didn't he?

 

 

This misconstruance of 19th century British English has done immeasurable damage to Prabhupada's movement.

 

Check your Merriam-Webster dictionary. "Crook" is a noun, defined as:

 

 

1 : an implement having a bent or hooked form: as a : POTHOOK b (1) : a shepherd's staff (2) : CROSIER 1

2 : a part of something that is hook-shaped, curved, or bent ....e crook of an umbrella handle>

3 : BEND, CURVE

4 : a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices

 

 

The first three meanings convey what Prabhupada intended. "Hook or crook" has nothing to do with criminality. Someone who succeeds by criminal behavior is not succeeding "by hook or by crook."

[Kripamoya 0]

 

Tripurari Maharaja is one of the few gurus who supports his matha by preaching alone. None of his brahmacaris go out on the "pick." He agrees that it is best to support the mission by preaching alone. But I wouldn't so harshly criticize devotees who support ashrams by money-making schemes. There were plenty in Srila Prabhupada's time and Srila Sridhara Maharaja was also criticized for how he got some of the money to support his matha, you may recall.

 

 

There were plenty in Srila Prabhupada's time

You seem to be trying to say that Prabhupada approved of scams.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada did NOT approve of any scams or schemes.

 

His program was to go out to the streets and support the temples by selling books.

 

all these scams and schemes were introduced by ambitious leaders who wanted to impress Prabhupada by giving him lots of money.

 

These guys were pulling scams and schemes and sending the money to Prabhupada.

 

Like Guru-kripa in Japan?

When Prabhupada finally found out how he was getting the money there and causing ISKCON to get banned from Japan, Prabhupada told Guru-kripa to his face "you will never amount to anything after what you did in Japan".