Bhava dasa Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Someone asks: "If the mind is conditioned at the time of death to be like a woman's but somehow gets a mans body, can he recondition his mind to be like a man? From gay to straight." Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 You should be the winner of the dumbest question in 2006 award! Chant and be serious. this question is pure maya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhava dasa Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 YChant and be serious. this question is pure maya. Someone is struggling with this issue, and has turned to devotees for compassionate guidance, and this is your enlightening response? Such an embarrassment! You did right by not giving your name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Someone who is gay or straight is conditioned by material nature and has to suffer and enjoy according to ones karma. If he/she is born what makes you think they will remember to be a man, or a woman in mind. The real answer is do not be born again in the materail world and stuggle with birth and death, but go back to Godhead. Tell your gay/straight friend that this question is rather useless, the main point is being devotional, and attain love og God, not to be born again and be gay or whatever you are asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 No bashin from here. I find the question intelligent, but the answer is as above. Being straight is no cure aganst being gay. Being straight is just as entangling. I had a great friend, a departed early disciple of Srila Prabhupada who came originally from the gay community. He quipped, "I was a perverted reflection of a perverted reflection". Meaning, gays have the same instruction as the straight, adapt the practices of sadhana bhakti, and purification will take place, unwanted habits (meaning attraction to promiscuity, with same (homo)or other (hetero), dont matter) will gradually subside and eventually drop off. Thanx, bhava, for including hotlink to your blog, it looks promising, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhava dasa Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 If he/she is born what makes you think they will remember to be a man, or a woman in mind. Not to “remember to be a man, or a woman”. He heard that the condition of the mind determines the body (both gross and subtle) in the next life. He feels like a woman trapped in a mans body, and wants to know if following Krsna consciousness will set the mind to be compatible with the body he has acquired in this life. He is reading these, so please be thoughtful and considerate in your replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhava dasa Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 No bashin from here. I find the question intelligent, but the answer is as above. Being straight is no cure aganst being gay. Being straight is just as entangling. I had a great friend, a departed early disciple of Srila Prabhupada who came originally from the gay community. He quipped, "I was a perverted reflection of a perverted reflection". Meaning, gays have the same instruction as the straight, adapt the practices of sadhana bhakti, and purification will take place, unwanted habits (meaning attraction to promiscuity, with same (homo)or other (hetero), dont matter) will gradually subside and eventually drop off. Thanx, bhava, for including hotlink to your blog, it looks promising, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa This was the kind of sensitive and mature response I was hoping for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ok. Dear Sir, following Krsna consciousness will set the mind to be compatible with Krsna's desire. Actually if you follow KC your mind will became clear and you will see that you are not the body so whatever way you may feel now, will be corrected when you reach this realization. My dear friend, whatever we be gay or straight is all material, meaning it is not our real constitutional position. Our real nature is actually, servants of God. Our real rasa or relationship with God is our real Identity. and this relationship can be revived by Krishna Consciousness. Everyone of us has a unique relationship with God, and we will know what that relationship is when we advance in KC. Some are male or female according to our taste. So when you think of your body , know that it is only temporary and your real Identity is what's important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narayani Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Hare Krsna, I recently finished a philosophy course in which I had to write a final research paper. Of course, as most traditional philosophy courses go, it was presented from the "western" view point. I wrote a paper attempting to present the vaisnava view on man's relationship with God. Here is a small section of the paper. keep in mind I wrote it with the goal of explaining to a philosophy student who is only familiar with "western" thought, but I think it touches on this discussion. Let me know what you think:) Understanding the all-pervasiveness of God is one of the first steps in understanding one’s relationship with Him. Though God is everywhere and in everything, the soul is still able to have a personal relationship with the Lord. This relationship is <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>’s mercy to each individual soul. Our relationship with God is eternal and based upon the most important thing of all: Love. Developing this loving exchange with the Lord is the ultimate goal of life. It is the realization of our true nature; our true persona. The Vaisnava believes we are each eternal loving servants of God. When we realize this, our persona becomes our salvation and perfection. The individual must be there, but as long as we are in this material world, our soul identifies with material distinctions with our family, community, body, nation, ideal, and so on. The soul is there and must continue, but proper understanding is realizing that we are eternal servants of God. Further more, the Vaisnavas also propound that every living entity is by nature a female or prakrti. Prakrti means female, and purusha means male. The only male or purusha is God, <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. To the Vaisnava, male means the enjoyer, and female means the enjoyed (not the material identifications of sex). But for God, no one is the enjoyer. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> is considered the only male; therefore originally we are all female by constitution; this is our true position, but under illusion the soul attempts to become a male, an enjoyer. Although a female by constitution, the living entity is trying to imitate the supreme male, <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. This is the reason for our place in the material world. Because we are trying to be the enjoyers, God has given us the chance to do so. This position is not our true nature; therefore, we are never satisfied. We search for meaning and purpose. We endlessly seek for answers, but when we come to our original consciousness, we understand that we are not the predominator but the predominated. The predominator, the enjoyer, is <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, and the predominated, the enjoyed are all living entities. When the predominated helps the predominator, that is the perfection of enjoyment. This enjoyment is the pure, loving relationships God has with each and every individual spirit soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 In answer to the first question, certainly the mind can be changed in this very life. It's not only for homosexuals; all heterosexuals also have this duty to try to be free from their conditioned mind. It's not an easy thing, but devotional service to Krishna is the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Not to “remember to be a man, or a woman”. He heard that the condition of the mind determines the body (both gross and subtle) in the next life. He feels like a woman trapped in a mans body, and wants to know if following Krsna consciousness will set the mind to be compatible with the body he has acquired in this life. He is reading these, so please be thoughtful and considerate in your replies I always thought this was a good expilnation. It was posted some time back by theist, of a lecture given by Siddhasvarupa: -------------- Homosexuality & Spirituality [From an Interview with Siddhasvarupa dasa] Q: Many homosexuals seem to be experiencing an identity crisis. They don't know who they are. They are in men's bodies but they feel like enjoying as women (homosexual) or they are in women's bodies but they feel like enjoying as men (lesbians). So are these people men or women? A: Neither. Just because a person is in a male body doesn't mean that the person is male; and just because a person or soul is in a female body doesn't mean that the person is a female. This is because the person or soul is not the material body, you are not your body, I am not my body. The body is like a suit of clothes that you are wearing temporarily. At death you will leave this suit of clothes behind and it will be buried in the dirt or burned to ashes. Your body may be female, black, brown or white, American or Filipino, fat or skinny, tall or short, etc. But since you are not the physical body -- since you are the eternal soul only temporarily in the body -- it can ultimately be said you are not any of these labels like male, female, black, white etc. These are bodily designations only but you are not the body. Q: So if I am in a male body and feel a desire to enjoy as a female -- am I in fact a female, or if I am in a female body but I desire to enjoy as a male, am I in fact a male? A: No. I have explained that the person is not the gross physical body but this doesn't mean that the person is the subtle physical body. You must realize that the mind and material desires are a subtle physical body which is also like a suit of clothes over the person or soul. The gross material body made up of the elements earth, water, fire etc., can be compared to the jacket and shirt and the subtle material body composed of the mind, material desires etc., can be compared to the undershirt or underwear. In fact you are not your jacket and shirt nor are you your underwear and undershirt. You are covered by a gross material body and a subtle material body. You are the eternal soul within these gross and subtle physical casings. Q: The identity crisis of homosexuals is "Am I a man because I have a man's body or am I a woman because I want to enjoy as a woman? Which am I, the mind or the body?" This is the question the homosexual is asking himself. Am I the particular type of external body that I have on or am I the desires that I feel? But what you are saying is that we are neither the external body nor the desires. -- You are not the gross physical body nor are you the mind and desires. -- A: Exactly. You are neither the mind nor the gross body. Both the gross body (male and female body) and the subtle body (mind and desires) are material coverings that you have on. Just because you are in a male body doesn't mean that you are male, similarly just because you are covered by the desire to enjoy as a female doesn't make you a female. You are not the gross physical body nor are you the mind and desires. You are the soul or person covered by these two bodies. You are not the gross or subtle body. You are the living entity situated within these bodies. The identity crisis exists for a person who is not aware of this fact. Q: So homosexuals who say they feel like women trapped in men's bodies are mistakenly identifying themselves as the mind and desires? A: Yes. Individuals in men's bodies but who want to enjoy as women should appreciate the fact that they are not women trapped in men's bodies, rather they are living entities covered up by the desire to enjoy as women, but their "female" desire is encased in a male body. In other words, they are actually identifying themselves to be the subtle body, the mind and desires. That is their mistake. A person can realize that the mind is not the self. Homosexuals, for example, can separate themselves from the tendency to enjoy as women. In other words they can see this tendency to enjoy as women as something apart from themselves; in the same way that they can experience their body as apart from themselves through meditation. A person says "my body", as if the body is his possession. Similarly, a person says, my mind, which points to the fact that the mind is also a possession of the person. I have a body and I have a mind -- but I am neither the body nor the mind. A person can watch images going through his mind in the same way that he watches television. He can act as a witness to the activities of the mind or he may dream and say, "Oh, I had a terrible nightmare", but as soon as the dream is gone, is he gone? No, he still exists. This means he is not the dream. The dream has ceased existing but he has not ceased existing. So he is not the mind. Similarly, desires continually change. A desire to enjoy in a certain way may exist, but then it goes away. But the living entity does not go away. The living entity, who is aware of that desire, continues to exist. The homosexual should be aware that his desires are changing from day to day, month to month, moment to moment. The person is the one who is aware of these ever-changing desires, feelings and thoughts. Homosexuals can say to themselves, "I am aware that I am now experiencing the desire to enjoy as a woman." By such meditation the homosexual comes to realize that such desires are apart from himself; that he can watch those desires as a witness; or he can try to rid his mind of them; or he can give in to them. The choice is his. If the homosexual chooses to (a) watch the desires come and go, if he is simply a witness to them, then he realizes that obviously he is not them, he is apart from them. He is merely a spectator, separated, watching the desires and thoughts go by. -- The person is trying to get a grip on the mind. This means that the person is not the mind. -- If the homosexual chooses to try to (b) rid himself of such perverted thoughts and desires, he will experience how hard it is to control them. This should act as further evidence to him that he is not those thoughts and desires. In other words, the very fact that a person has a hard time controlling the mind proves that the mind is something distinct from the person -- that the person is apart from the mind trying to control it. The mind is separate from the person. The person is trying to get a grip on the mind and make it do this and do that. This means that the person is not the mind. Furthermore, the very fact that a person has a choice between: A. watching the desires and thoughts as spectator; or B. trying to rid the mind of such thoughts and feelings; or C. giving in to and following the dictates of the mind and desires, is proof that the person is not the desires and thoughts. The person is the one who chooses between A., B. or C. Also, the person is the one who is aware that, "I have decided to give in to my desires" or "I have decided to try to control my desires". Q: Homosexuals can somehow experience that their gross body is something foreign; that they have the wrong kind of body on. Their subtle body does not match up with their gross body. How did this happen? A: This is all due to their desires and activities in their past life. Such desires and past activities have caused them to transmigrate to gross bodies which do not match up with their subtle body. Q: Some people may ask, "How can you prove that we actually transmigrate from one body to another?" A: This is not very difficult to show. As a matter of fact, we have already transmigrated from one body to another in this life. There is no question of what is going to happen later: As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change. -- Bhagavad-gita 2:13 The soul transmigrates from a baby body to a boyhood body, and then migrates into a young man's body. A person who used to live in a young body now lives in a middle-aged body, And a person who used to live in a middle-aged body now lives in an old body. The young body he used to live in is no longer there. Thus, there is no question whether or not there is transmigration of the soul. We see the process happening all around us. We see a person dropping off one body, then leaving that body and taking on another body. It is not the same body -- the body of an old man is not just an older version of the same body he had as a youth. All the cells have changed, the bones have changed, the whole body is different. This is a scientific fact. The body is made up of cells which are constantly being replaced. In fact, the dying process is going on at every moment. The body is constantly changing. In the same way that there is continuity through-out the gradual changes of the present body, there is continuity in the life of the conditioned soul. The desires that a person cultivates during the lifetime of the present gross body do not die when the material body dies. They remain with the living being and act as the link or connection with the next body. The bridge between one type of body and the next is the mentality of the living being -- the subtle body or mind. Q: How does the mind affect the gross body? A:The mind is the nucleus around which the gross body develops. The gross body is the reflection of the mind. The different types of bodies we see in the material world are simply external manifestations of the different desires or tastes of the different living entities. "The living entity in the material world carries his different conceptions of life from one body to another as the air carries aroma. " -- Bhagavad-gita 15:8 A person's consciousness or mentality at the time of death determines the type of gross body he will take on in his next life. And a person will naturally think of what is most dear to him at the time of death. It may be certain pleasures or experiences he is very much attached to or it may be the form of somebody he loves very much, the person he is most attached to. Whatever it may be, by the arrangement of material nature's laws which are under God's direction, he will either take on a body like the one he thinks of or he'll take on a body made specifically for enjoying the type of material pleasure he is most attracted to. In the case of homosexuals, such individuals in their previous lives were somehow or other attached to the male form. And at the time of death, they were thinking of the male form. Thus, they got male bodies in this life. However, because they still have some tendencies to enjoy as women, oftentimes, feminine traits are there in the subtle body. That is why sometimes it seems like these people are freaks of nature. But it is not nature's mistake. It is just that these persons had very, very strong desires to enjoy as women but they were simultaneously attached to men. The line between enjoying as a male or female is very thin. Q: What do you mean when you say, "The line between enjoying as a male or female is very thin"? A: During sexual intercourse, both parties are simply enjoying sexual stimulations. Whether one enjoys the stimulation with a female organ or with a male organ is a very minor point. The point is that during sexual intercourse itself, a person enjoys both sexual organs at one time. A person can't just enjoy his own sexual organ. But whether the instrument that a person or his partner is using is male or female, it doesn't really matter. All the person wants is the sex experience. That is what he is attached to. Q: Many homosexuals are found to have more female hormones than the ordinary men. Can you also explain how this happened? A: Hormones, chromosomes and the entire physical make-up of people are determined by the mentality of the individuals when they leave the body at the time of death. Because there are people who are attached to the male form but who still want to enjoy as females (i.e. they still have feminine desires such as the desire to have children or enjoy sex as women), this mental condition manifests on the gross physical level in the form of increased female hormones or certain modifications in physical make-up. As I've explained earlier, the mentality or consciousness that persons have when they leave the body at the time of death determines the type of body they will take on in their next life. Thus, if a person has the male form firmly implanted in his mind but still has some desires to enjoy as a woman at the time of death, he takes on a male body but one which has more female hormones. This is a very great science. People have to try to understand it as a science. This is not a belief. People must understand the reality of how the mind affects the gross body and how activities of the present body affect the mind. The consciousness that persons have at the time of death determines the type of body they will take on in their next life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 u mean 2 say dat its wrong to be a gay/lesbian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niche Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 u mean 2 say dat its wrong to be a gay/lesbian? maybe you need to read it over again........ its pretty enlightening... no where it says right or wrong !!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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