Without our books, our preaching will have no effect.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada said to his disciples:

 

Without our books, our preaching will have no effect.

[Guest guest]

When Srila Prabhupada said "our preaching will have no effect", that overtly includes even HIMSELF!

 

Srila Prabhupada said that without his books OUR (his) preaching will have NO EFFECT!

 

Without the books, even Srila Prabhupada's preaching would have had NO EFFECT!

 

That is what he said in that statement as he said "OUR preaching will have no effect".

 

So, Srila Prabhupada seemed to be saying time and time again that the BOOKS are the real basis of the movement, even more important than the living guru concept.

 

Without the books, a living guru "WILL HAVE NO EFFECT".

 

That is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Without the books, a living guru "WILL HAVE NO EFFECT".

 

 

 

Yes, let the misintrepretating begin..

[Guest guest]

 

Yes, let the misintrepretating begin..

 

Srila Prabhuapda told this same thing to his disciples over and and over again...

 

 

My first concern is that my books shall be published and distributed profusely all over the world. Practically, BOOKS ARE THE BASIS of our movement. Without our books our preaching will have no effect.

 

 

So, without the books as the basis, all this so-called preaching will have NO EFFECT.

Prabhupada's FIRST CONCERN was that his books would be published and distributed. He said that real preaching was to distrubute his books.

All this so-called preaching of disciples has NO EFFECT. The real effect that Srila Prabhupada wanted to achieve was the effect produced from reading his books.

 

Since Srila Prabhupada's FIRST CONCERN was publishing and distributing his books, he told his disciples that otherwise their own preaching would really have NO EFFECT outside of his books.

 

It appears from Srila Prabhupada's teachings that he definitly considered the potency to be in his books and NOT in the jaw flapping of his disciples.

[Guest guest]

Srila Sridhar Maharaja explains how the sabda-brahma came to be manifest in script and text.

 

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: In Srimad-Bhagavatam, Krsna says, "First

I transmitted Vedic knowledge to this world through Brahma. And

that was entrusted to his disciples: the four Kumaras, Marichi, Angira,

and other sages." The knowledge was first invested in them and later

in books.

First it was presented in the form of sound, not script. Gradually it

became fixed in writing. In the beginning, it descended directly

through sound from one man to another, from lip to ear. No script or

writing was invented at that time, but knowledge was contained in the

form of sound. Passing through the ear to the mouth, and again to the

ear of another, gradually it became lost. In connection with the

mediator sometimes it becomes lost and disfigured, distorted, and then

again the Lord feels the necessity of appearing in this world (yada

yada hi dharmasya).

Sometimes Krsna comes himself, and sometimes he sends a normal

thinking man to reinstate the standard of true religion.

 

So, what was once only attained from lip to ear became transmitted through text and books.

Therefore, we must conclude that the concept that spiritual knowledge only comes through the lips of a so-called living sadhu is an outdated concept that became obsolete with the incarnation of sabda-brahma in the form of text.

[Guest guest]

Sridhar Maharaja exposes the physical succession myth:

 

 

So, the very gist of the guru parampara, the disciplic succession, is

siksa, the spiritual teaching, and wherever it is to be traced, there is

guru. One who has the transcendental eye, the divine eye, will

recognize the guru wherever he appears. One who possesses

knowledge of absolute divine love in purity - he is guru. Otherwise the

guru parampara is only a body parampara: a succession of bodies.

 

Beware of the physical succession gurus - the body parampara!

 

Sridhar Maharaja said that SIKSHA is the essence of the parampara principle.

[Guest guest]

Sridhar Maharaja further explains that we should be interested in developing our spiritual lives by advancing in the realm of spriitual thought.

 

Physical succession without the development of spiritual thought is simply a process of the cheaters and the cheated.

 

 

The Gaudiya Math deals with reality, not with the frame. We are

trying to understand what is what in the spiritual thought-world. We

are not enchanted or captured by the mere form. We are interested in

the step by step development in spiritual thought.

 

Advancement in spiritual thought is the key to success.

 

Taking diksha in a physical succession school is for losers.

[Puru_Das 0]

TEXT 12

 

tac chraddadhana munayo

jnana-vairagya-yuktaya

pasyanty atmani catmanam

bhaktya sruta-grhitaya

 

SYNONYMS

 

tat--that; sraddadhanah--seriously inquisitive; munayah--sages; jnana--knowledge; vairagya--detachment; yuktaya--well equipped with; pasyanti--see; atmani--within himself; ca--and; atmanam--the Paramatma; bhaktya--in devotional service; sruta--the Vedas; grhitaya--well received.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The seriously inquisitive student or sage, well equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that Absolute Truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedanta-sruti.

 

PURPORT

 

The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord, Vasudeva, or the Personality of Godhead, who is the full-fledged Absolute Truth. Brahman is His transcendental bodily effulgence, and Paramatma is His partial representation. As such, Brahman or Paramatma realization of the Absolute Truth is but a partial realization. There are four different types of human beings--the karmis, the jnanis, the yogis and the devotees. The karmis are materialistic, whereas the other three are transcendental. The first-class transcendentalists are the devotees who have realized the Supreme Person. The second-class transcendentalists are those who have partially realized the plenary portion of the absolute person. And the third-class transcendentalists are those who have barely realized the spiritual focus of the absolute person. As stated in the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic literatures, the Supreme Person is realized by devotional service, which is backed by full knowledge and detachment from material association. We have already discussed the point that devotional service is followed by knowledge and detachment from material association. As Brahman and Paramatma realization are imperfect realizations of the Absolute Truth, so the means of realizing Brahman and Paramatma, i.e., the paths of jnana and yoga, are also imperfect means of realizing the Absolute Truth. Devotional service, which is based on the foreground of full knowledge combined with detachment from material association and which is fixed by the aural reception of the Vedanta-sruti, is the only perfect method by which the seriously inquisitive student can realize the Absolute Truth. Devotional service is not, therefore, meant for the less intelligent class of transcendentalist. There are three classes of devotees, namely first, second, and third class. The third-class devotees, or the neophytes, who have no knowledge and are not detached from material association, but who are simply attracted by the preliminary process of worshiping the Deity in the temple, are called material devotees. Material devotees are more attached to material benefit than transcendental profit. Therefore, one has to make definite progress from the position of material devotional service to the second-class devotional position. In the second-class position, the devotee can see four principles in the devotional line, namely the Personality of Godhead, His devotees, the ignorant and the envious. One has to raise himself at least to the stage of a second-class devotee and thus become eligible to know the Absolute Truth.

A third-class devotee, therefore, has to receive the instructions of devotional service from the authoritative sources of Bhagavata. The number one Bhagavata is the established personality of devotee, and the other Bhagavatam is the message of Godhead. The third-class devotee therefore has to go to the personality of devotee in order to learn the instructions of devotional service. Such a personality of devotee is not a professional man who earns his livelihood by the business of Bhagavatam. Such a devotee must be a representative of Sukadeva Gosvami, like Suta Gosvami, and must preach the cult of devotional service for the all-around benefit of all people. A neophyte devotee has very little taste for hearing from the authorities. Such a neophyte devotee makes a show of hearing from the professional man to satisfy his senses. This sort of hearing and chanting has spoiled the whole thing, so one should be very careful about the faulty process. The holy messages of Godhead, as inculcated in the Bhagavad-gita or in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, are undoubtedly transcendental subjects, but even though they are so, such transcendental matters are not to be received from the professional man, who spoils them as the serpent spoils milk simply by the touch of his tongue.

A sincere devotee must, therefore, be prepared to hear the Vedic literature like the Upanisads, Vedanta and other literatures left by the previous authorities or Gosvamis, for the benefit of his progress. Without hearing such literatures, one cannot make actual progress. And without hearing and following the instructions, the show of devotional service becomes worthless and therefore a sort of disturbance in the path of devotional service. Unless, therefore, devotional service is established on the principles of sruti, smrti, purana or pancaratra authorities, the make-show of devotional service should at once be rejected. An unauthorized devotee should never be recognized as a pure devotee. By assimilation of such messages from the Vedic literatures, one can see the all-pervading localized aspect of the Personality of Godhead within his own self constantly. This is called samadhi.

SB 1.2.12

HDGACBSP

[Puru_Das 0]

". . . When He met Sri Ramananda Raya on the bank of the Godavari, the varnasrama-dharma followed by the Hindus was mentioned by the Lord. Srila Ramananda Raya said that by following the principles of varnasrama-dharma, the system of four castes and four orders of human life, everyone could realize Transcendence. In the opinion of the Lord, the system of varnasrama-dharma is superficial only, and it has very little to do with the highest realization of spiritual values. The highest perfection of life is to get detached from the material attachment and proportionately realize the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The Personality of Godhead recognizes a living being who is progressing in that line. Devotional service, therefore, is the culmination of the culture of all knowledge. When Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appeared for the deliverance of all fallen souls, He advised the deliverance of all living entities as follows. The Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead, from whom all living entities have emanated, must be worshiped by all their respective engagements, because everything that we see is also the expansion of His energy. That is the way of real perfection, and it is approved by all bona fide acaryas past and present. The system of varnasrama is more or less based on moral and ethical principles. There is very little realization of the Transcendence as such, and Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected it as superficial and asked Ramananda Raya to go further into the matter.

Sri Ramananda Raya then suggested renunciation of fruitive actions unto the Lord. The Bhagavad-gita (9.27) advises in this connection: "Whatever you do, whatever you eat and whatever you give, as well as whatever you perform in penance, offer to Me alone." This dedication on the part of the worker suggests that the Personality of Godhead is a step higher than the impersonal conception of the varnasrama system, but still the relation of the living being and the Lord is not distinct in that way. The Lord therefore rejected this proposition and asked Ramananda Raya to go further.

Raya then suggested renunciation of the varnasrama-dharma and acceptance of devotional service. The Lord did not approve of this suggestion also for the reason that all of a sudden one should not renounce his position, for that may not bring in the desired result.

It was further suggested by Raya that attainment of spiritual realization freed from the material conception of life is the topmost achievement for a living being. The Lord rejected this suggestion also because on the plea of such spiritual realization much havoc has been wrought by unscrupulous persons; therefore all of a sudden this is not possible. The Raya then suggested sincere association of self-realized souls and hearing submissively the transcendental message of the pastimes of the Personality of Godhead. This suggestion was welcomed by the Lord. This suggestion was made following in the footsteps of Brahmaji, who said that the Personality of Godhead is known as ajita, or the one who cannot be conquered or approached by anyone. But such ajita also becomes jita (conquered) by one method, which is very simple and easy. The simple method is that one has to give up the arrogant attitude of declaring oneself to be God Himself. One must be very meek and submissive and try to live peacefully by lending the ear to the speeches of the transcendentally self-realized soul who speaks on the message of Bhagavata-dharma, or the religion of glorifying the Supreme Lord and His devotees. To glorify a great man is a natural instinct for living beings, but they have not learned to glorify the Lord. Perfection of life is attained simply by glorifying the Lord in association with a self-realized devotee of the Lord. * The self-realized devotee is he who surrenders unto the Lord fully and who does not have attachment for material prosperity. Material prosperity and sense enjoyment and their advancement are all activities of ignorance in human society. Peace and friendship are impossible for a society detached from the association of God and His devotees. It is imperative, therefore, that one sincerely seek the association of pure devotees and hear them patiently and submissively from any position of life. The position of a person in the higher or lower status of life does not hamper one in the path of self-realization. The only thing one has to do is to hear from a self-realized soul with a routine program. The teacher may also deliver lectures from the Vedic literatures, following in the footsteps of the bygone acaryas who realized the Absolute Truth. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended this simple method of self-realization generally known as Bhagavata-dharma. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the perfect guide for this purpose.

 

* The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has been formed for this purpose"

 

Introduction Srimad Bhagavatam

pp. 28-29

HSGACBSP

[Puru_Das 0]

<CENTER>The Importance of Sadhu Sanga

 

 

 

 

</CENTER><CENTER>by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja

 

</CENTER>Sadhu sanga krsna nama. The holy name must be taken with the attitude of service to the saints. Serving means die to live; to throw oneself wholesale for the higher existence. Mr. Gandhi risked his whole life at every point of action. His attitude was, “Whatever I told to others, I am to maintain that throughout the whole of my life.” What am I taking the name for? To have some fame as a sadhu? No! That should not be our objective. Kanak, kamini, partistha – not for money, not to attract women, and never to attract popularity.

 

Rather I should be ready to sacrifice myself fully for whom I am serving, for whom I am taking the name. It is not a limited thing, but complete surrender, then the whole thing is guaranteed. My pursuit, my attempt should be backed by my whole energy, whole prospect and everything. This is the attitude I should have to search for a drop of Vaikuntha nectar. Otherwise our effort will be useless.

 

Die to live means sacrifice or seva. Seva means death. Seva means to give one’s own self for a particular cause, for Krsna. That this mad, mundane concocted self should be saved is not a very laudable thing. It is a mortal thing, and the depot of many reactions. So one should get rid of this centre as soon as possible, and enter into the land of confidence, goodness, fairness and sweetness. Try to enter that land with a sincere and wholesome attitude. Your campaign must be wholesome not partial. Taking one step forward and three steps back won’t do. There should be no such hesitation. You are finite and you want to get the advantage of the infinite? You are so small, and do you think that by sacrificing only a part of your smallness your aspiration for the whole can be fulfilled? Is it reasonable to expect such? No, it is not so easy.

 

Atah sri krsna namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih, if only our superficial senses are engaged in Krsna cultivation, as if it is nothing, then you cannot produce the name, but only mundane sound. Sevon mukhe hi jivadhau svayam eva sphuraty adah. Your tongue can produce mundane sound, but that is not Krsna. For the name to be Krsna, Krsna has to come down. Don’t be self-deceptive, thinking that, “Taking the name, I am a great sadhu.” It is not like that. Krsna has come down to you in the form of sound and He is spiritual, transcendental. So seva mukhe or your complete surrender to Him will attract Him, and He graciously descend to save you by His name. In your archan, in performing your duties, at every step He will come when you are giving yourself to Him, then He will accept you. He will come and embrace you. He’ll be within you and without you, everywhere. But only those whose eyes are clear, and are not captured by any prejudice from selfish end or ordinary things can see Him. Those who are not captivated by any prejudice, in whom all prejudice is cleared can directly see the highest power or highest principle, underlying all.

Our own tendency for exploitation and renunciation creates so many units of this plane, like so much dust to blind our eyes so we can’t see Him. Kanaka pasyanti kamini mayayo jagat. Those who are lustful try to find out where is a beautiful lady, pasyanti dhana mayo jagat, the greedy people always busy their minds with the thought, “Oh, there is Birla, there is Tata, there is Ford,” who are the moneyed men in this world. They only think about moneyed men because they love wealth the most. Dhara mayo jagat and khira prayanti narayano jagat, those who are liberated from the outer external influences may find, “Oh, I am in the kingdom of Narayan, who is the support and guardian of the whole world. We see His hand everywhere. Without His direction nothing can move.” They may boast that, “I have got such power, I have got such beauty, I have got wealth,” but it is all a false show. The real backing spirit is Narayan, the all pervading, all knowing, all good principle. And the temporary external plane is the killing aspect of existence. It is only our prejudices of so many types that have captured us.

 

So by whatever process we approach the Lord the tenor of our movement should be, if we want a guarantee that it will actually be for the satisfaction of Krsna, that my whole effort depends upon the genuine character of the agent through whom I am rendering my services. If the agent is a false man then my whole energy is wasted. But if he is a real agent then I must be the gainer through him. If I connect with Vaikuntha through him then my actions will be valued. Otherwise we may be the loser, aparadha (offender). Nama aparadha, seva aparadha, arcana aparadha – there are so many aparadhas. It is also written in the scriptures that if service is not done properly, then we are sure to commit some offenses against the Deity. Either we will get satisfaction or trouble. Aradhana is the proper thing, and the hateful handling of the holy things is aparadha. It all depends on the satisfaction of whom it is we are serving. So we must be careful.

 

We must not be overconfident of our previous acquisition – so much I have acquired, my progress is so much. I must not be satisfied with my self-certificate, self-satisfaction, the certificate of my own making. Mahaprabhu Himself said, “I am taking the name, I am showing so many tears in the name of Krsna. But why? It is all a false show na prema gandho ‘sti. My crying is only a show to canvas others to see what a great devotee I am.” So much you are to disbelieve your own self that you are a devotee. In this way we must be very careful, very, very careful.

 

Kotis vapi maha mune, Krsna das Kaviraj Goswami and Narottam Das Thakur were seeing, “The whole world is absolved from sin, but I am neglected, I am left as the only exception. I am so low and ill fated that I am rejected from that most benevolent infinite lila. I alone am rejected. I could not utilize this great fortunate wave.” This should be the real tendency of a genuine vaisnava who has actually come in relation with the infinite. Whenever the finite comes in touch with the infinite his temperament cannot be otherwise. “I am empty, I don’t get anything,” that should be the temperament. I feel emptiness within me. I can’t get the goal. My life is frustrated. Neither do I get a drop of grace from the Lord, and the world, of course, I have left. So both sides gone.

I have no alternative, O Lord. If you don’t accept me then I am undone. Please, just make me the servant of the servant of the servant. Give the remotest connection to me. Graciously give the most distant connection of Yourself to me. Don’t leave me, my Lord. I can’t tolerate the craving for you. This heart-felt, heart rending prayer must come to the vaisnava devotee of the Lord. Onlookers will find that he has got a peep of the fortune. The charm for the world outside is fully eliminated for that person, from the core of his heart. And in the near future his heart will be filled with the nectar of the grace of Krsna.

 

Bhukti, mukti sprha yavat pisci na nivartate. The desire for enjoyment, and also for renunciation or mukti, no engagement, are compared to two ghosts (pisaci). So how do you dare to express that bhakti, real love for Krsna, will descent in your heart? Those two demons are there, and do you think the noble lady of devotion will come and sit on the same bench with those demons? How can you expect that? Have you freed yourself from all those nasty things that you dare to invite the lady of Krsna bhakti to come?

 

Krsna bhajan is independent of any external form of life. Mahaprabhu says “naham vipro na ca narapati na vaisya na sudro, gopi bhartu pada kamalayor dasa dasanu dasa.” Varnasrama dharma is just the beginning, then gradually improving we are to go up to the absolute service of Krsna. Without consideration of any law or form, thinking only of service, whatever we do or think or speak, everything should be done for the service of Krsna. That is the standard of real devotion. And mere form may be a little favourable, but not always.

 

The spirit, even crossing every formality, is what is required of us. Our absolute attraction for the service, the beauty does not allow law to have any status. In the beginning they have got some sort of utility. But when a little advanced they do not care for anything. Only sadhu sanga, adherence to the saint of similar type and a little better. Those who are on the path of raga bhajana, divine love and attraction, find that the only way, the only thing which can guide us is spontaneous desire, laulyam atram mulyam ekalam. The only price is earnest desire and nothing else. Krsna bhakti rasa-bavita mati, murti kriyatam yadi kuto ‘pi labhyate. Ramananda Raya says to Mahaprabhu, “Anywhere you find it, try to purchase it at any price.” The pure inclination towards the service of Krsna, the innermost tendency to want Krsna, to get Him, the earnest desire to have Him – a drop of that desire for the divine attraction, anywhere you find it, one must try to purchase it at any price. You may acquire it anywhere. It may be from a brahmana or from anyone. It does not matter about the form.

 

Kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra keno haya, yei krsna tattva vetti sei guru haya. Wherever there is a drop of that divine love, try to get it. And what is the price? Earnest desire for it. No other price but earnest desire, laulyam. It is not to be purchased by any money, or anything else which is acquired by so many formal practices in cores of births. Substance is necessary and not form. Form may be adopted only as much as it may connect me with that higher thing. So, sarva dharman parityaja, ‘all phases of duty you perceive as perfect, give up. At once try to jump in Me, into the ocean of nectar. I am the ocean of nectar. Try to jump.’ That is the direct teaching. So our addiction to this or that, to vanaprastha, sannyasa, or grhastha has got very negligent value. But the earnest desire, that is to be acquired by any means. That is bhakti proper.

 

Others try to know about Krsna from the scriptures (sastra). Ramakrishna once remarked that in the almanac it is written that this year so much rain is expected. But it does not mean that if we please the almanac a drop of water will ooze out of it. So the sastra is something like that. The sastras say do this and do that. But that does not mean the sastra will give us the result too. They give direction, and as much as we practice we get.

 

So, helplessly, when one is searching by this method or that method, when he practically comes in contact with the service for a vaisnava he gets real benefit. Then the service of vigraha and sastra all becomes superficial. The more real thing we find in the vaisnava. In his heart, the Krsna conception, Krsna as He is, knowledge or love, whatever we may be searching for, we will find in a living condition in the heart of a vaisnava who is regulating all his activities towards the service of the Lord. In the vaisnava it is animated more than in the vigraha, than in the tirtha and than in the sastra.

 

Direct connection with Krsna we can find in the consciousness of a vaisnava. From what plane is he regulating all his activities? To what plane is he withdrawing himself from all worldly attraction? What is that which guides him towards some direction which is unknown and unknowable? He is moving towards that direction which is not to be traced in any loss or gain of this world. What is that thing? Nanam tisthami vaikuntha yoginam hrdayesu va mad bhakta yatra guyante tatra tisthami narado. “I am not even in Vaikuntha, not even in the heart of the yogis, but where my devotees are singing with pleasure about Me, I am there, I am owned by them.” Mac citta mad gata prana, bodha-yantah parasparam kathayantas ca mam nityam tusyanti ca ramanti ca.

 

In the Ramanuja sampradaya there is an incident regarding three Alwar devotees, nitya parsada devotees, who were contemporaries. One night they went to a temple perhaps for some occasion. They did not know one another. In the darkness one was talking, another hearing. It was also very sweet to him. Then the third also joined. They were talking although they did not know one another. They might have heard the names of each other, but this night they have met together. Natha yogi, Bhuta yogi and someone talking between them. Then one questioned, “We three are here. Do you feel the presence of a fourth one?” One told, “Yes, I feel the presence of a fourth one”. By this it is meant that the Lord, about whom they were talking, is present. In their talking, in the conversation, He has come and is hearing the talk. So, only attraction, pure spiritual attraction, and nothing else can be pleasing to one but Krsna, Radharani, the gopis, all this, the very innermost part of the heart is taken possession of by the thought of Krsna and His associates, His lila, His name, and His paraphernalia. That is what is necessary.

 

man mana bhava mad bhakta mad yaji mam namaskuru

Krsna says, “You Arjuna, you are My most favourite devotee. I promise you at least, I won’t deceive you. So I say that I am everything. I tell you clearly that at least I won’t deceive you because you are My friend. Always mind Me, become My devotee and serve Me. If you sacrifice anything, do it for Me. Or at least you may show respect to Me. So you are sure to enter Me, to come to Me. Myself alone you will come to. This is the truth. I promise you. You are My favourite. The truth is this, do everything for Me, attend Me, always think of Me and you are sure to come to Me.” The thinking, the engagement, the very life of engagement is attraction for Him. Attraction for Him, but how to get it? How to seek shelter from the devotees? Superficially we can get something from the sastra, but substantially from the devotee.

 

The influence you catch from the devotee, what they hold within their heart, within their endeavour, pervading through all their activities, that particular attraction is the divine thing that I want. That most subtle of the subtle, the nerve structure within, that can move the bodily activities, that can help the body to do its functions is what we are after. That inner energy of the devotee, that makes him do what we do not find in the world, with no attraction for sense pleasure, fame, name, money, etc. but for something else, for Krsna. We must follow their path. “Who comes to serve Me directly are not My real devotees. But who is the devotee of My devotee, they are My real devotees. If you love Me, love My dog. His love for Me is so intense that wherever he finds any external connection with Me he engages himself fully there.”

 

Vaisnava seva, guru seva, vigraha seva and nama seva are all recommended, but in Kali yuga especially, the service of the name has been given as the most general approach. It is mentioned sadhu sanga Krsna nama ei matta jai. We must climb up to the real plane where we can take the name proper, vaikuntha nama grahanam asesagham haram vidun. It is true that an infinite magnitude of sin may be removed by one name, but that must be vaikuntha nama. It must have the characteristic of vaikuntha, the unlimited plane of eternity, not only the physical sound. So sadhu sanga is necessary. The name must be taken from gurudeva, and with the company of sadhu the name must be taken.

 

Nama sankirtana means to preach the name, what the name is, and the ten offenses against the name. There are also four abhasa or shadowy expressions of the name. They should also be eliminated and the real name which is one and the same with the Lord should be taken. The greatness and magnanimity of the name is so charming, the name is the Lord Himself. In this way, by taking the name, nam bhajan or kirtan, we can be saved from the external contamination of the forces of the world of karma and jnana, exploitation and renunciation.

 

These are the two great enemies of devotion, bhukti mukti sprha. The tendency to exploit and its opposite, the tendency to renounce, neither the negative nor the renunciation of the negative can be a real positive. A third thing is necessary and that is constructive, full in itself and perfect. Positive is not mere withdrawal from the negative side. The positive has got its own characteristics, so we must come in connection with the positive: sat cit ananda, satyam sivam, sundaram. We must connect ourselves in all phases, whatever is possible for us.

 

Grha va vante thake ha gauranga bole dake. It doesn’t matter much whether one is a householder or a sannyasi. How much he has intensely engaged himself in the service of the Lord, that is to be seen. A grhasta may even be above a sannyasi. During the time of Mahaprabhu, so many grhasta devotees were there, but the real spirit is all Gauranga. We found in our young days when we joined the non-cooperative movement of Gandhi that there were so many volunteers who had left everything. But when the police were coming they were fleeing for fear of their life. Still we found that a grhasta like Chittaranjan Das and others, with all their family members, were giving resistance to the police attack. Although a grhasta, he sends his son to the prison and his daughter and wife to police custody. Gandhi remarked, “I envy your situation.” As a grhasta he was living like a fully attached man. But in the real work of supporting the cause, he is not less than one who has left everything and dedicated himself wholly. As a family man he is not afraid, whereas others may be afraid. So service is necessary. In whatever position he may be it does not matter much. When the necessity will come, even an apparently worldly minded householder may sacrifice the whole for Krsna.

 

In the case of Haris Chandra, for example, he was a king for the truth as he could conceive of it. He left everything for the cause which he loved. So wholesale dedication, the internal hankering, the fire within is the real necessity. It may not be found in a sannyasi, but in a grhasta, vanaprastha, brahmachari or anyone. We want the substance and not the form so much. The burning fire of separation from Krsna is the real wealth. Just as with Sri Chaitanyadeva, His separation from Krsna is so intense, that he can’t sleep or take food. His separation is so intense that at night He is trying to get out of the house, though it is all closed. So he jumped the walls of the house, practically unconsciously, and fell in front of the Jagannath temple and fainted. What degree of separation is found in Him! It is not possible for us to conceive the degree of feeling that there was. Sometimes he was rubbing his face against the walls because he could not get out and go to His Lord.

 

A sakhi is representing to Krsna the pain of separation which Radharani feels for Him. Previously, she explains, a continuous flow of tears was found in Her eyes, but it is not there anymore. Somehow She has managed to distribute them to Her friends. Now they are weeping like anything, but no trace of tears can be found in Her. She had some temperature in Her body, but now that is also gone. That She has transferred to Her intimate sakhis. Her attendants are now saying many things. Undesirable talks of mourning are found among Her attendants. Previously all those things were found in Srimati Radharani, but somehow She managed to leave them all with Her friends. She had also been absorbed in deep thought. What will be Her fate? Maybe Krsna will never come again. He is doing this and that. So many thoughts were within Her, but now we find no trace.

 

But Her superiors are burdened with those deep thoughts. “O, the girl won’t live. She will pass away very soon. What will be the fate of Braja? If She passes away Krsna won’t come here again”. What little is left in Her we see in the form of hard breathing and beating heart. In a day or two that will also disappear. Now, Krsna, You may remain happy here for your misdeed. Your misdeed is the cause of all these things, but She has managed to relieve you. No complaint will come against you any more. Silently She is passing away keeping You safe while You remain here and enjoy with Your own friends.

 

Prahlada was requested by his father, “Please tell me what progress you are making in your gurukula study. What have you learned to be the best thing in life?” Prahlada answered sravanam kirtanam visnu smaranam pada sevanam archanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam. Iti pumsarpitam visnu bhaktis avalkanam. “I think the best study is this: to hear, chant, and serve – all in relation to Visnu. That is the best utility of time for everyone in the world. Tat sadhu manye sura varya dehinam. This is what I consider to be the best thing I have learned”. Prahlada’s trouble began from here. His father replied, “Visnu is my enemy eternally, and who has taught you that to cultivate love for Him in different ways is the best understanding of human life?” The torture began. We must also be prepared for that torture. Torture will increase our enthusiasm in an indirect way. Anything may come, anything may go on. Wherever that impetus, that intense tendency to serve Krsna is to be found, there we must go. But it is nowhere, it is unknown und unknowable, and in this way transcendental.

 

For Aurobindo it was the supramental plane. In fact he was constructing the figure of Siva, Mahadeva, who belongs to that plane. But instead we see that he has wrongly constructed the figure of something other than Mahadeva. Again, when Bhaktivinod Thakur said that India is the best place in the world, and within India, Bengal is the best; then in Bengal, Nabadwip Dham is the best, the highest of all; Aurobindo imitated him saying that India is the best in the world, and Bengal is, of course, the best in India, and the Hooghly district is the best in Bengal. Then I thought, why has he selected Hooghly eliminating Nabadwip? The recollection then came to me that is was the birth place of Raja Ram Mohan Raya, the founder of the Brahmo Samaj. It was my conclusion that it was only for that reason he had selected Hooghly to be the best.

Chitaranjan Das may be as good as Raja Ram Mohan Raya and Rabindranath Tagore, and although his father was a Brahmo, he himself returned to Hinduism telling his friends, “If you write something about me, then please describe me as a servant of a vaisnava”. That was his temperament. He was a good and sincere man, but not a vaisnava of the ghosha, or pure type, but only the ordinary type who had respect for the vaisnavas. Vipin Pala, who was a revolutionary, extremist and the first in violence, could not accommodate the Gandhi movement, but he was closely connected with C.R. Das. Vipin Pala was in fact engaged as the editor of the magazine published by C.R. Das called “Narayan Patrika”. When, as a college student, we read the “Narayan Patrika” we found Vipin Pala’s explanation of Bhagavad-gita, etc. and a lecture he gave in the Viraha meeting at University Hall, Calcutta.

 

In that lecture he mentioned that “Sri Krsna Samhita” written by Bhaktivinod Thakur had taken his faith back to vaisnavism, although he had been a pure Brahmo type when he first read the book. We appreciate that he has acknowledged Bhaktivinod Thakur’s writing to such an extent. Bhaktivinod Thakur’s conception was very scientific, as well as deep, simple and fervent. It was accurate and modernized as well. We find many excellent qualities in the writings of Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur.

 

The high type of realized conception Bhaktivinod Thakur has given us should not be conceived as having been acquired by him in his present life, though it may seem to come from the ordinary events of his life. Rather we should assume that this is the natural growth of the jnana sunya bhakta. It is because of fashion that Bhaktivinod Thakur had some other tendency in his married life and all these other things. They should not stand in the way of the fact that he was an eternal associate, servitor of the Lord. Otherwise, such intensity, such depths of feeling cannot come abruptly. So, Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada has seen him as a facsimile of Gadadhara Pandit, and Gaura Kisor Das Babaji as Swarup Damodar. Sometimes he saw Bhaktivinod Thakur as Radharani because his vision was so graphic, spacious, and all comprehensive, filled with deep knowledge and experience. It is impossible unless we consider him to be at least saktyavesa, that is, inspired by the Lord Himself.

 

Bilvamangal Thakur says anartha bandhu karanaik sindhu. “How can I pass these barren days, my Lord? These unfortunate days are impossible for me to pass. Without having a peep of your sight, I cannot stand to live any more. But you are a friend to the helpless, and you are an ocean of kindness and grace. Please consider it my Lord, how can I pass my days without You.” The normal temperament of a devotee will be like that. Separation, of course, will be encouraging. If we find a person is always feeling separation from the Lord that will be appreciated, whereas anything else should be considered abnormal and dangerous.

Sometimes there may be some confusion about the relative and absolute consideration. The absolute consideration is our own internal Krsna consciousness, and the relative refers to the environment. One must not be influenced by the environment of the mundane world. But that does not mean he won’t seek an environment of the spiritual realm. That is found through sadhu sanga. In the spiritual plane the environment contributes much. Even Radharani says that Krsna alone cannot satisfy Her without the environment, so She doesn’t want Krsna as such. For instance, in Kuruksetra when She met Krsna, She wanted to take Him back to Vrndavan where Their meeting could be more intimate.

 

The devotee also says, “Only Krsna, that is nothing to me if we do not find Radharani at His side”. So, the environment has a great contribution to make in that realm. Everything there, every minute particle of the environment will help promote my attention towards Krsna. That will be very desirable. But here in the mundane plane, just the opposite is found, the perverted reflection. Everything comes to take me away from Krsna in this plane, and there everything pushes me towards Him. So there in the plane of dedication everything will be healthy. But in the plane of exploitation and renunciation everything is just the opposite, taking me away from the centre, asat sanga. Sadhu sanga means promoting towards my cause. The mundane plane is the perverted reflection, but just above that it is the real plane which is just the opposite of this. So we must not be maladjusted. Asat sanga tvag ei vaisnava achar. The practices of a student of vaisnavism is only one – to renounce the environment; but that does not mean that the sadhu is eliminated also if he is found. Stri sanga eka sadhu krsna bhakta ara. There are two types of asat. One is stri sangi or yosit sangi, those who are attached to sensual pleasures. And the other is Krsna abhakta, one who has no attraction for Krsna but is engaged in other errands, bhukti kami siddhi kami, who have other desires such as for liberation or material perfection. They should be eliminated. We should be careful, cautious about these two. One may be a scholar, a yogi, a tyagi and all these things, but if he is not a devotee of Krsna he should be eliminated.

 

Anyabhilasa karma jnana. Those who have the desire to reach for something, for fruitive activity, to plan for some result, and those who are busy to know Krsna to measure Him, and finish Him by their analysis, these are to be eliminated. Jnana means to always want to measure Krsna or the environment. Jnana means to know, to be master, and to be acquainted with everything. That is jnana, the false errand that I shall be the subject and everything else should be the object of my knowledge. Such wild goose chasing is impossible. It is running after a phantasmagoria, in the words of our Guru Maharaj. Another expression is will-o-the-wisp. It is impossible to know everything and be master of everything. Tvam aham veda sarvani na tvam vetta parantapa. It is not your business to know everything by your constitutional position. It will be folly to bring everything within your consciousness. Jnane prayasam utapasya. Here uta apa asya, where asya means throwing hatefully, and uta means far away. These two adjectives are given for dismissal of knowledge. Only through faith, with the nature of submission can the truth be known.

Mahaprabhu has taught trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina mana dena. It is very difficult to conquer one’s fame, or prestige. Pratistha, one’s love for position is very difficult to give up. It is easier to give up attraction for females or money, but hankering for one’s own position is most difficult. Prestige for position is our innermost enemy. So long as that remains we cannot offer ourselves in the service of a vaisnava. I may accept somewhat hesitatingly the service of God, but to serve a vaisnava would be like coming to a lower settlement. In fact, to become the servant of a vaisnava would actually be the all and end all of my life. But how can I accept that idea? I may accept service under the Supreme Lord, that I may anyhow manage. But to become the servant of the servant of the servant – what is this? What is the fun? Should a man stoop so low as this? Therefore, pratistha, position, the consciousness of prestige, is the greatest enemy of the conditioned soul.

 

Radha dasyam means to become a slave, to embrace the ideal, the hope of becoming a slave. To classify oneself as the slave of Krsna is not the end. One must be willing to become the slave of the slave of the slave. “This is the most ludicrous thing. Let them accept this mean settlement; I won’t. So ‘ham. I am the biggest of the big. So ‘ham, Shivo ‘ham. I am the master of maya, Siva. Sivo ‘ham.” This is the point where the false, separate existence from God begins.

 

Transcending mortality one comes to the plane of mangal, auspiciousness, which is good in comparison with the plane of mortality. The first reach beyond the limit of mortality or mrtyaloka, is Mahadeva, Siva. But from Siva we have to pass to sundaram, the land of beauty. Siva is only the middle position or mangalam. But this mangalam is not differentiated in its fullest characteristics at this point, only it is out of danger. To be out of danger is nothing positive, but it is the highest safe position. However, one must not only be safe, but engaged in the most desireable thing. The safe position is relative Siva. Above that is Sada Siva and the plane of positive engagement.

 

Once there was one god brother named Kumar Surendra Narayan Raya, an M.A. graduate of Punjab University. He was a rich man whose annual income was three lakhs. He took Hari Nam from our Guru Maharaj. That gentleman went with him to Celon on one occasion. When Guru Maharaj was passing in a car, Surendranath Narayan Raya, who was out for a walk, met him on the wayside and immediately fell flat in the road offering his obeisances in the mud, since at that time it was the rainy season. Then Prabhupad asked, “What are you doing down in the mud? What are you doing? He has got a rich dress but it is all smeared with mud”. Then Surendranath said, “We have only one thing to do in life – to make prostration to the Vaisnava. We can’t do anything else. Should I be a miser only there? Pranam is our only wealth, everything. If I be a miser there then what will be my fate? Pranam, pramananta eva, that is our only aspiration.”

 

Mahaprabhu once had a talk with one Mathura brahman, Raghupati Upadhyaya, on His way back from Mathura, perhaps in Allahabad. In their talk we find one sloka mentioned. What is the highest conception of figure? The answer was Syamasundar. Syama eva param rupam. What is the highest place of worship? Mathura mandal is the highest place to worship Him. What should be the best age befitting for our service? Kaisora, or new youth. And in what sort of rasa should we try to serve Him? We should try to serve in the mood of madhurya rasa. Mahaprabhu told him that “you have taught Me a good lesson.” We want to worship Kaisora Krsna, we are not going to worship old Krsna. There is Mathura and Dwaraka, but we are fond of worshipping Krsna in Vrndavan, where He has a new, youthful life. His companions are also new youths. The highest point is beauty. The idea of eternity is like that, navayauvana, new, youthful, progressing not full blown, but blossoming.

 

We should not be afraid of our youth, we should adore it. Not that youth will be engaged in pleasure seeking, but in supplying pleasure to the Lord. Utilization, not renunciation is our end. Utilization is the highest good. We want to have our energy in its fullest command. All are youthful in Vrndavan, but well planned, managed, well aimed, and well idealized. Why should we worship anything that is fading or dying? We are worshippers of the full energy to the extreme, but it is absolute good. Our Guru Maharaj said that there is a proverb: when there is fire in the shed, the cow or bull come out because of fear of fire, seeing the red colour there. And when the cow sees the red colour in the sky he again becomes afraid thinking that there is fire and it will come to attack me and burn me.

 

In the same way the mayavadis are suffering from that disease, because they are afraid of energy and opulence and thus they take to renunciation. Wherever there is opulence, youth or beauty, they are afraid, because they are worshippers of the negative side. If they go to enjoy, the reaction will come to get them. But vaisnavas know how to utilize everything for the service of the Lord. So they are not afraid of anything good. All good, attractive, beautiful things, everything they will utilize for the service of the Lord. If our association with the environment is sadhu sanga, with real beauty and love in truth, then everything will come to help us in our search for Krsna, Reality the Beautiful.

 

 

 

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[theist 1]

 

 

Without the books, a living guru "WILL HAVE NO EFFECT".

 

That is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

BS. If you want to claim that go ahead but don't claim it as a teaching of Srila Prabhupada's!

 

Are you saying that an illiterate lover of God cannot teach another person how to love God?

 

Just see how the pendulum swings. One says, "One needs a "living" guru with a (physical body) before you can understand the books."Another responds, "No, the other way. One needs the books to understand the physically present spiritual master."

[JLdd 0]

In fact, while you must accept a guru is present, one's guru does not need to be alive. Many of SP disciples have done very nicely in his absence. The fact that many have left reflects on our enjoying spirit, not his direct presence. We need the books because we have faulty memories in kali-yuga. We all have to have gurus that we hear from and can judge our progress, give instructions when we screw up by ONLY reading the books. This very discussion, which has been beaten to death so many times, is the proof that without someone to guide us and make a formal connection in the heart, we do not understand by only reading. That is what the parampara is for. Otherwise you are jumping over, something that SP warned us against many times. Like the Christians who have made so many interpretations based on what they want the bible to say.

 

Krsna Consciousness is not like a common law marriage, that after you associate with it for many years, you automatically get all the benefits. You will get many. But as per Arjuna's example, you must be surrender your intelligence to guru directly to make the most progress.

[Guest guest]

 

In fact, while you must accept a guru is present, one's guru does not need to be alive. Many of SP disciples have done very nicely in his absence. The fact that many have left reflects on our enjoying spirit, not his direct presence. We need the books because we have faulty memories in kali-yuga. We all have to have gurus that we hear from and can judge our progress, give instructions when we screw up by ONLY reading the books. This very discussion, which has been beaten to death so many times, is the proof that without someone to guide us and make a formal connection in the heart, we do not understand by only reading. That is what the parampara is for. Otherwise you are jumping over, something that SP warned us against many times. Like the Christians who have made so many interpretations based on what they want the bible to say.

 

Krsna Consciousness is not like a common law marriage, that after you associate with it for many years, you automatically get all the benefits. You will get many. But as per Arjuna's example, you must be surrender your intelligence to guru directly to make the most progress.

 

 

But, is always better to quote authorities than to preach as if we are the authority.

Without preaching from the books, then the preaching has no effect.

[Jugg 0]

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<font size=4><UL>I am pleased to see that routine work is going on nicely in Columbus center under your supervision. This routine work, such as chanting, speaking, rising early, cleaning, cooking and offering prasadam, arati, reading books--these activities are the backbone of our Society, and if we practice them nicely in a regulative manner, then our whole program will be successful. If we become slack or neglect these things, then everything else we may try will fail. So it is very important that you keep your standards very high in these activities, then your preaching will be strong. Preaching is our real business, preaching and distributing books. If your preaching work is strong, then your management of temple affairs will also become automatically very strong. Just like if the head wills it, the hand will move. Preaching is like the head of our KC Society--if the head is removed, the whole body dies. Managing is the hands, which work nicely if the head is healthy. If the hands are removed, the body will not die, but it will be crippled. So preaching is more important than management, but both must be there if the whole body is to operate nicely.

 

HDG Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada Goswami Maharaja </UL></font size>Ki Jai

 

-- Books are compared to the blood - temples to the backbone. So many instructors and 'unique' instructions! How could THIS possibly be? One, or sooo many? The choice is simple. There must be many mouth peices in order to fulfill the prediction, "In every town and village."

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[Guest guest]

CC Madhya-lila Ch.25 Text 122

TEXT 122

 

sarva-desa-kala-dasaya janera kartavya

 

guru-pase sei bhakti prastavya, srotavya

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

sarva--all; desa--countries; kala--times; dasaya--and in circumstances; janera--of every man; kartavya--the duty; guru-pase--in the care of a spiritual master; sei--that; bhakti--devotional service; prastavya--to be inquired; srotavya--and to be heard.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

" 'It is therefore the duty of every man-in every country, in every circumstance and at all times-to approach the bona fide spiritual master, question him about devotional service and listen to him explain the process.

 

C.C. Adi-lila Ch.1 Text 58

 

TEXT 58

 

jive saksat nahi tate guru caittya-rupe

siksa-guru haya krsna-mahanta-svarupe

 

SYNONYMS

 

jive--by the living entity; saksat--direct experience; nahi--there is not; tate--therefore; guru--the spiritual master; caittya-rupe--in the form of the Supersoul; siksa-guru--the spiritual master who instructs; haya--appears; krsna--Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mahanta--the topmost devotee; sva-rupe--in the form of.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself.

 

PURPORT

 

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity

[Guest guest]

Caitanya Caritamrta Antya-lila Ch.7Text53

 

 

TEXT 53

 

bhattera hrdaye drdha abhimana jani'

bhangi kari' mahaprabhu kahe eta vani

 

SYNONYMS

 

bhattera hrdaye--in the heart of Vallabha Bhatta; drdha--fixed; abhimana--pride; jani'--understanding; bhangi kari'--making a hint; mahaprabhu--Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu; kahe--spoke; eta vani--these words.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Knowing that Vallabha Bhatta's heart was full of pride, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu spoke these words, hinting at how one can learn about devotional service.

 

PURPORT

 

Vallabha Bhatta was greatly proud of his knowledge in devotional service, and therefore he wanted to speak about Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu without understanding the Lord's position. The Lord therefore hinted in many ways that if Vallabha Bhatta wanted to know what devotional service actually is, he would have to learn from all the devotees He mentioned, beginning with Advaita Acarya, Lord Nityananda, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Ramananda Raya. As Svarupa Damodara has said, if one wants to learn the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one must take lessons from a realized soul. One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava. As Narottama dasa Thakura has confirmed, chadiya vaisnava-seva nistara payeche keba: one cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves a pure Vaisnava. One must accept a Vaisnava guru (adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara system.

[Guest guest]

C.C.Antya-Lila Ch.1 Text 101

TEXT 101

 

krsna-namera mahima sastra-sadhu-mukhe jani

namera madhuri aiche kahan nahi suni

 

SYNONYMS

 

krsna-namera mahima--the glories of the holy name of Lord Krsna; sastra--of the revealed scriptures; sadhu--of the devotees; mukhe--in the mouth; jani--we can understand; namera madhuri--the sweetness of the holy name; aiche--in that way; kahan--anywhere else; nahi suni--we do not hear.

 

TRANSLATION

 

One has to learn about the beauty and transcendental position of the holy name of the Lord by hearing the revealed scriptures from the mouths of devotees. Nowhere else can we hear of the sweetness of the Lord's holy name.

 

PURPORT

 

It is said in the Padma Purana, atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih. Chanting and hearing of the transcendental holy name of the Lord cannot be performed by the ordinary senses. The transcendental vibration of the Lord's holy name is completely spiritual. Thus it must be received from spiritual sources and must be chanted after having been heard from a spiritual master. One who hears the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra must receive it from the spiritual master by aural reception. Srila Sanatana Gosvami has forbidden us to hear the holy name of Krsna chanted by non-Vaisnavas, such as professional actors and singers, for it will have no effect. It is like milk touched by the lips of a serpent, as stated in the padma purana:

 

avaisnava-mukhodgirnam

putam hari-kathamrtam

sravanam naiva kartavyam

sarpocchistam yatha payah

 

As far as possible, therefore, the devotees in the Krsna consciousness movement gather to chant the holy name of Krsna in public so that both the chanters and the listeners may benefit.

[Puru_Das 0]

 

So, what was once only attained from lip to ear became transmitted through text and books.

Therefore, we must conclude that the concept that spiritual knowledge only comes through the lips of a so-called living sadhu is an outdated concept that became obsolete with the incarnation of sabda-brahma in the form of text.

Wordsmith you are a brilliant example of how one can examine the words of our acaryas, the books of our acaryas, and the commentaries of our acaryas, and then come to a false conclusion of your own based on your own pre conception. I haven't seen such brazen mental speculation since Wyspery used to post on the VNN forums. Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja never ever said that books replaced sadhu sanga and that living sadhu is an "out dated concept." . Allow me to repeat yet again what he actually said :

.

 

The influence you catch from the devotee, what they hold within their heart, within their endeavour, pervading through all their activities, that particular attraction is the divine thing that I want. That most subtle of the subtle, the nerve structure within, that can move the bodily activities, that can help the body to do its functions is what we are after. That inner energy of the devotee, that makes him do what we do not find in the world, with no attraction for sense pleasure, fame, name, money, etc. but for something else, for Krsna. We must follow their path. “Who comes to serve Me directly are not My real devotees. But who is the devotee of My devotee, they are My real devotees. If you love Me, love My dog. His love for Me is so intense that wherever he finds any external connection with Me he engages himself fully there.”

Vaisnava seva, guru seva, vigraha seva and nama seva are all recommended, but in Kali yuga especially, the service of the name has been given as the most general approach. It is mentioned sadhu sanga Krsna nama ei matta jai. We must climb up to the real plane where we can take the name proper, vaikuntha nama grahanam asesagham haram vidun. It is true that an infinite magnitude of sin may be removed by one name, but that must be vaikuntha nama. It must have the characteristic of vaikuntha, the unlimited plane of eternity, not only the physical sound. So sadhu sanga is necessary. The name must be taken from gurudeva, and with the company of sadhu the name must be taken.

 

 

So, helplessly, when one is searching by this method or that method, when he practically comes in contact with the service for a vaisnava he gets real benefit. Then the service of vigraha and sastra all becomes superficial. The more real thing we find in the vaisnava. In his heart, the Krsna conception, Krsna as He is, knowledge or love, whatever we may be searching for, we will find in a living condition in the heart of a vaisnava who is regulating all his activities towards the service of the Lord. In the vaisnava it is animated more than in the vigraha, than in the tirtha and than in the sastra.

 

 

TEXT 9

TEXT

keha ta' acarya ajnaya, keha ta' svatantra

sva-mata kalpana kare daiva-paratantra

SYNONYMS

keha ta'--some; acarya--the spiritual master; ajnaya--upon His order; keha ta'--some; sva-tantra--independently; sva-mata--their own opinions; kalpana kare--they concoct; daiva-paratantra--under the spell of maya.

TRANSLATION

Some of the disciples strictly accepted the orders of the acarya, and others deviated, independently concocting their own opinions under the spell of daivi-maya.

PURPORT

This verse describes the beginning of a schism. When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas.

Cc. Adi lila Ch. 12.9

HDGACBSP

 

If you want anyone to take your posts seriously then you have to accept the vanih of our acaryas as it is, and not "independently concoct. . ." your "own opinions under the spell of daivi-maya.", and think you have proven your speculation. Perhaps to yourself, but to no one else.

[Puru_Das 0]

". . . It is not empiric wisdom that is the object of quest of the devotee. Those who read the scriptures for gathering empiric wisdom will be pursuing the wild goose chase. There are not a few dupes of their empiric Scriptural erudition. These dupes have their admiring under-dupes. But the mutual admiration society of dupes does not escape, by the mere weight of their number, the misfortunes due to the deliberate pursuit of the wrong course inaccordance with the suggestions of our lower selves.

 

What are the Scriptures? They are nothing but the record by the pure devotees of the Divine Message appearing on the lips of the pure devotees. The Message conveyed by the devotees is the same in all ages. The words of the devotees are ever identical with the Scriptures. Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard. Those who think that the Sanskrit language in its lexicographical sense is the language of the Divinity are as deluded as those who hold that the Divine Message is communicable through any other spoken dialects. All languages simultaneously express and hide the Absolute. The mundane face of all languages hides the Truth. The Transcendental face of all sound expresses nothing but the Absolute. The pure devotee is the speaker of the Transcendental language. The Transcendental Sound makes His appearance on the lips of His pure devotee. This is the direct, unambiguous appearance of Divinity. On the lips of non-devotees the Absolute always appears in His deluding aspect. To the pure devotee the Absolute reveals Himself under all circumstances. To the conditioned soul, if he is disposed to listen in a truly submissive spirit, the language of the pure devotee can alone impart the knowledge of the Absolute. The conditioned soul mistakes the deluding for the real aspect when he chooses to lend his ear to the non-devotee. This is the reason why the conditioned soul is warned to avoid all association with non-devotees.

 

Thakur Bhaktivinode is acknowledged by all his sincere followers as possessing the above powers of the pure devotee of Godhead. His words have to be received from the lips of a pure devotee. If his words are listened from the lips of a non-devotee they will certainly deceive. If his works are studied in the light of one's own worldly experience their meaning will refuse to disclose itself to such readers. His works belong to the class of the eternal revealed literature of the world and must be approached for their right understanding through their exposition by the pure devotee. If no help from the pure devotee is sought the works of Thakur Bhaktivinode will be grossly misunderstood by their readers. The attentive reader of those works will find that he is always directed to throw himself upon the mercy of the pure devotee if he is not to remain unwarrantably self-satisfied by the deluding results of his wrong method of study. . . "

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura,

The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6

http://bvml.org/SBSST/tb.htm

[Guest guest]

Your interpretation is of course blunted.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur said he would be willing to sell the marble in the temples to print books.

 

Srila Prabhupada's whole mission was based upon the instruction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur that he should dedicate his life to printing books.

 

If these books are so useless, then why was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur so enthusiastic about printing books?

 

You can read any distortion you want into that article by Srila Saraswati Thakur, but the fact that he was very committed to publishing books is a well-known fact and you can never disprove that by pulling up something he wrote that is obviously way over your head.

 

Either the books are potent or they are useless.

 

There is no middle ground that you are trying to prove.

[Guest guest]

 

Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard

 

that means that anyone who reads the book of Bhaktivinoda and minimizes the person of Bhaktivinoda does not understand the position of Bhaktivinoda and has missed the whole meaning of the book.

 

The same is true with Srila Prabhupada.

 

anyone who reads his books, yet tries to turn him into a dead guru has missed the whole meaning of why he published the books.

[Guest guest]

 

Thakur Bhaktivinode is acknowledged by all his sincere followers as possessing the above powers of the pure devotee of Godhead. His words have to be received from the lips of a pure devotee. If his words are listened from the lips of a non-devotee they will certainly deceive.

 

And the words from the lips of Srila Prabhupada have been put into books and there is NO difference between the words coming from his lips and the words coming from his books.

 

These books ARE THE LIPS of Srila Prabhupada.

 

That you cannot realize that is very unfortunate.

[Guest guest]

 

Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men.

 

Stay at home, chant Hare Krishna and read the books.

That was Srila Prabhupada's formula.

[Puru_Das 0]

 

Your interpretation is of course blunted.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur said he would be willing to sell the marble in the temples to print books.

 

Srila Prabhupada's whole mission was based upon the instruction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur that he should dedicate his life to printing books.

 

If these books are so useless, then why was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur so enthusiastic about printing books?

 

You can read any distortion you want into that article by Srila Saraswati Thakur, but the fact that he was very committed to publishing books is a well-known fact and you can never disprove that by pulling up something he wrote that is obviously way over your head.

 

Either the books are potent or they are useless.

 

There is no middle ground that you are trying to prove.

 

The only thing we are trying to "prove" is that you don't really understand the meaning of the scriptures that have come from either Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharja or Srila Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati Thakura.

 

SBSST's article speaks for itself. SBSST also opened temples and gave many public lectures. KC is not cafateria religion, accept this and reject that. The whole package is important. The main point of his article is that you cannot understand the books left by the predecessor acarya by empiric study alone and without surrendering, serving and hearing from and taking the association of the present living acarya. In that article SBSST also said:

 

"There have, however, already arisen serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of the life and teachings of Srila Thakur Bhaktivinode. Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favour the methods of empiric study of his writings. There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words. There is no honest chance of missing the warnings of Thakur Bhaktivinode. Those, therefore, who are misled by the perusal of his writings are led astray by their own obstinate perversity in sticking to the empiric course which they prefer to cherish against his explicit warnings. Let these unfortunate persons look more carefully into their own hearts for the cause of their misfortunes.The personal service of the pure devotee is essential for understanding the spiritual meaning of the words of Thakur Bhaktivinode. . . "

 

 

Thinking you can understand transcendental literature by empiric study or without studying them carefully with the anugatya (guidance) of a pure Vaisnava is your mistake, plain and simple. KC is simple for the straight and complicated for the crooked. Try reading Cc.Antya lila 5.131,and SB 1.2.18. I quoted those verses and purports from the books on the other thread that was closed, and you ignored what His Divine Grace says in those purports then ,so no reason to believe you won't do that again.

 

The reason our acaryas print books is to give the conditioned souls access to the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Rupa Gosvami. The Six Gosvamis wrote books on the direct order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to firmly establish the science of Krsna consciousness. Their work leaves a written record for future study and reference by sincere souls. In the books themselves, and not in your fautly conclusions we can read directly

what to do and what not to do in order to practice Krsna consciousness.

 

None of our acaryas translated the sanskrit works of Srila Vyasadeva, the Bengali writing of Srila Krsnadas kaviraja Gosvami, the sanskrit books of Srila Rupa Gosvami and the bengali literatures of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura into English, Hindi, Bengali and other languages to discourage sadhu sanga. WE DON'T discourage anyone from reading the books left by our acaryas or minimize their value.

 

And we never said that His Divine Grace was "a dead guru." The fact is that he did end his nara lila and enter maha samadhi in 1977 and you cannot change that fact by inventing a new rtvk religion that tries to "belittle the function of the pure devotees" and call that Krsna Consciousness. You persist in denying the importance of sadhu-sanga, of hearing the discourses of self realized souls, of Bg. 4.34 and have offered no evidence from His Divine Grace's books to prove any of your assumptions. You sound very much like the gbc who also try to insist there is no need for a living siksa guru because all the vanih we will ever need is in His Divine Grace's books. Of course that is not what His Divine Grace has written in his books. As far as I can see you don't really accept His Divine Grace's vanih at all. Who is your spiritual master? Under whose guidance do you practice the regulative principles of vaidhi bhakti? Do you do that? Can you explain to us what the goal of bhakti yoga is? How can we achieve it?

.

 

You cannot minimize the significance of the nara lila of our acaryas, past and present.

 

Unfortunately as wonderful as His Divine Grace's books are, the books alone have not kept the iskcon society free from apasiddhanta, vaisnava aparadha and numerous problems too useless to discuss and too numerous to even mention.

 

"He reasons ill who thinks that Vaisavas die, Whilst thou art lving still in sound. For Vaisnavas die to live, and living try To spread the Holy Name Around."

[Guest guest]

 

"Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard."

 

Srila Prabhupada is the original communicant of the scriptures I read.

Any sadhu or devotee who belittles the function of Srila Prabhupada as the founder acharya of ISKCON has missed the message of the books.

 

they like to tell us "your Prabhupada is dead, I am the living guru, you must surrender to me now"

 

Sorry, I don't buy that load of manure.

 

Prabhupada is dead and gone.

 

that is your message.

 

I hear you loud and clear.

 

He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die...... when living still in sound.

 

This idea that Prabhupada is dead is a sickness of spiritual disease.