I must ask myself, Am I a separtist?

theist · June 5, 2006

TRANSLATION Srimad Bhagavatam 3.29.9

The worship of Deities in the temple by a separatist, with a motive for material enjoyment, fame and opulence, is devotion in the mode of passion.

PURPORT

The word "separatist" must be understood carefully. The Sanskrit words in this connection are bhinna-drik and prithag-bhavah. A separatist is one who sees his interest as separate from that of the Supreme Lord. Mixed devotees, or devotees in the modes of passion and ignorance, think that the interest of the Supreme Lord is supplying the orders of the devotee; the interest of such devotees is to draw from the Lord as much as possible for their sense gratification. This is the separatist mentality. Actually, pure devotion is explained in the previous chapter: the mind of the Supreme Lord and the mind of the devotee should be dovetailed. A devotee should not wish anything but to execute the desire of the Supreme. That is oneness. When the devotee has an interest or will different from the interest of the Supreme Lord, his mentality is that of a separatist. When the so-called devotee desires material enjoyment, without reference to the interest of the Supreme Lord, or he wants to become famous or opulent by utilizing the mercy or grace of the Supreme Lord, he is in the mode of passion.

Mayavadis, however, interpret this word "separatist" in a different way. They say that while worshiping the Lord, one should think himself one with the Supreme Lord. This is another adulterated form of devotion within the modes of material nature. The conception that the living entity is one with the Supreme is in the mode of ignorance. Oneness is actually based on oneness of interest. A pure devotee has no interest but to act on behalf of the Supreme Lord. When one has even a tinge of personal interest, his devotion is mixed with the three modes of material nature.

Kulapavana · June 5, 2006

The word "separatist" must be understood carefully. The Sanskrit words in this connection are bhinna-drik and prithag-bhavah. A separatist is one who sees his interest as separate from that of the Supreme Lord.

there is also the understanding of a Vedic monist (Brahmavadi) in that regard. they also see oneness with the Lord as a complete union, where the goal is becoming part of that great river of pure life called Brahman. It is a noble and pure understanding that should not be minimized.

theist · June 6, 2006

Yes that understanding is a vital distinction for the Vaisnava.

Gaea · June 6, 2006

A separatist is one who sees his interest as separate from that of the Supreme Lord.

who does one chant for or perform service for? is it for one's own spiritual benefit? That's certainly my motivation - I want to love God more, I want to be a better devotee, etc etc - my motivations are separate from the interests of God. So in a way everyone begins as a separatist. Until you realise that you should be doing it for his glory, not your own. Easy enough to say but so difficult to do.

theist · June 6, 2006

who does one chant for or perform service for? is it for one's own spiritual benefit? That's certainly my motivation - I want to love God more, I want to be a better devotee, etc etc - my motivations are separate from the interests of God. So in a way everyone begins as a separatist. Until you realise that you should be doing it for his glory, not your own. Easy enough to say but so difficult to do.

The mixed position. I believe this is why they say pure bhakti is an acitivity that is engaged in by the liberated and self-satisfied. But mixed devotee also has a type of connection with Krsna's will. Krsna wants you to love Him, He wants you to be a better devotee so your stated interests are not separate from Krsna's in that sense just not yet fully matured. If you keep to that nature of desire then you are just *moments* from eternal perfection because Krsna will strengthen those desires without doubt. No need to help you burn them out or get past them.

Myself I am a liberationist. I just want my suffering to stop. But by the mercy of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada I cannot even consider shooting for sayuja-mukti or absorption in the Brahman. That much mercy has been granted to me by the Lord. I am now trapped.

This is a preliminary position to the one you described but our task is similar in that you want to love God more whereas I begrudgingly admit my need to love God. But in both cases we have identified love of Krsna as the answer.

May Krsna and His devotees kindly watch over us and others in our positions, strengthen us and bring us back to Him. :pray:

Gaea · June 7, 2006

But in both cases we have identified love of Krsna as the answer.

thats the beauty of Prabhuapada's teaching - love for Krsna is everything! Even if you have difficulty accepting the Lord as supreme (e.g. if you come from a advaitya background like i do) it is very dificult to resist that compelling love.