Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties

[Guest guest]

>d) Prime land for the cows should be kept in top productive condition for

>providing the best nourishment for the cows. The remainder of their grazing

>fields maintained as conditions allow.

 

If this is a "standard" how can it realistically be "enforced"

Each farmer has his iwn idea what is 'top productive condition' each farmer

runs his farm according to his own intelligence and education. There are

bound to be considerable differences according to available

labour/finances/facilities in the neighborhood.

 

This concern is only to be best realised by education. For instance as far

as I know they are still doing chemical farming in Mayapur, our "Mecca" etc.

If this is the case how can there be much of a question of 'top productive

condition?' The calves were always having a problem with not getting enough

of their mothers milk....If however one grows organic food crops the

production and quality can be doubled........This principle goes full

circle as when you can double you have more of everything and then the calf

will get more, there will be more money in the goshala, there can be straw

for the cows to lie on......and I have heard now there is! Then they can

make some good compost for converting to organic farming!

[Guest guest]

COM: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP (GB) wrote:

 

> [Text 2119503 from COM]

>

> >d) Prime land for the cows should be kept in top productive condition for

> >providing the best nourishment for the cows. The remainder of their grazing

> >fields maintained as conditions allow.

>

> If this is a "standard" how can it realistically be "enforced"

> Each farmer has his iwn idea what is 'top productive condition' each farmer

> runs his farm according to his own intelligence and education. There are

> bound to be considerable differences according to available

> labour/finances/facilities in the neighborhood.

>

> This concern is only to be best realised by education.

 

Enforcement is certainly tough. Especially as we can't get over specific due

to the wide range of environments devotees have cows in. Yes, good education

is crucial. Even a vague statement can be useful, though. In West Virginia,

it is well known that spreading lime is essential for top productivity, but it

is initially expensive with no immediate return, so the nonagriculturally

inclined money managers are resistant to expending the funds. With at least a

general standard to refer to, approved by the GBC, it is useful in

negotiations.

[Guest guest]

On 25 Feb 1999, Radha Krsna wrote:

 

> >d) Prime land for the cows should be kept in top productive condition for

providing the best nourishment

for the cows. The remainder of their grazing fields maintained as conditions

allow.

>

> If this is a "standard" how can it realistically be "enforced" Each farmer

has his own idea what is 'top

productive condition' each farmer runs his farm according to his own

intelligence and education. There are

bound to be considerable differences according to available

labour/finances/facilities in the neighborhood.

 

Yes, if you tie into the outside (agriculture?) system this true. In the

beginning one has to operate within that

system, however it is possible to wean one self to the degree that you can

produce many of your needs with

little interaction with the greater society. Top productive condition means

with what facility at hand (from

your own land). I like to relate a farm to a field of grass, it requires three

things:

 

1. Water

2. Sun

3. Soil that is able to produce life sustaining foods.

 

If you have livestock you have at hand the means to keep the soil invigorated.

It is just a matter of properly

utilizing things to their full capability.

 

>

> This concern is only to be best realised by education. For instance as far

as I know they are still doing

chemical farming in Mayapur, our "Mecca" etc.

 

In the beginning there must be some conversion system to maintain production,

the final goal must not be

lost. Every opportunity to advance toward the goal must be taken. This

requires some vision, determination

and patience.

 

>If this is the case how can there be much of a question of 'top productive

condition?'

 

Of course it is not 'top pc' but if the process is in place you are rightly

situated and after some time that goal

can be achieved. Provided one does not lose faith in the final goal.

 

>The calves were always having a problem with not getting enough of their

mothers milk....

 

Calves not receiving enough milk has nothing to do with the type of farming,

that is a management thing, the

calves are low on the priority list. First the calves should get all that is

need for proper growth and then milk

should be allocated to other uses. Weak calves means poor future herd, if you

want good production first

you must give full facility to providing all the needs of the cows.

 

This is a symptom of our greater disease, that the western (meaning not in

line with Prabhupada's directions)

methods are practical and what the guru has said is utopian and not practical

in our time.

 

> If however one grows organic food crops the production and quality can be

doubled........This principle

goes full circle as when you can double you have more of everything and then

the calf will get more, there

will be more money in the goshala, there can be straw for the cows to lie

on......and I have heard now there

is! Then they can make some good compost for converting to organic farming!

 

One method is use your muscle to make compost, the other is to use your

intellect to have the cows deposit

it at the desired final destination. This second method requires increased

control of the movement of the

cows instead of the manure they produce. Regardless of what method you use to

maintain or improve

fertility there must always be sufficient forage available.

ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

>calves are low on the priority list. First the calves should get all that

>is need for proper growth and then milk

>should be allocated to other uses. Weak calves means poor future herd, if

>you want good production first

>you must give full facility to providing all the needs of the cows.

 

This is like disease. Diseased young means diseased future generations.

These ailments both human and bovine are cumulative they take effect over

generations.

This is why this is such an important subject. Globally practically we have

exhausted our fertility for the last one hundred years (maybe 150). This is

why we have to do something drastic.

 

>One method is use your muscle to make compost, the other is to use your

>intellect to have the cows deposit

>it at the desired final destination. This second method requires increased

>control of the movement of the

>cows instead of the manure they produce. Regardless of what method you use

>to maintain or improve

>fertility there must always be sufficient forage available.

 

We've had this conversation before and I suggest that you have not seen the

contents of our book. Or should I say Howard's book. He reiterates again and

again in his different writings that cow dung slurry is only good for

grassland NOT for arable crops.

 

The Ancients knew this (Agricultural Testament) many modern day farmers do

not know this. Applying cow dung to arable land that is not in a proper

condition for that soil to digest will result in crops of inferior quality

and quantity and also be susceptible to disease and infestation. It must be

suitably 'friable' or 'properly synthesised' (in scientific terms) if you

will, to be able to be immediatley incorporated into that soil to give

immediate benefit to the plants you're trying to grow. [Again, as we said

earlier, if a young one gets a bad start in life, so the later results will

also be bad.] That is why Howard says properly made compost (which is

certainly not a lot of work) is about 3 (three) times the value of farmyard

manure! AND YOU CAN REALIZE UP TO 8 (eight) times the amount by the Indore

process. It's not a lot of work , it's how you handle it that counts. ie

as explained in great detail in our book under the section the Indore

Cattleshed Management System.

 

My research work takes me now into the realm of medicine for where does

health come from. It comes from Mother earth - the land. I am meeting at a

conference with some influential agriculturists next month in London,

including the famous author Nicholas Lampkin (Organic Farming). My

contention, which I memtion in our Satvik Indore Toilet leaflet, is that in

the chain of recycling nutrients there is a missing link and a very big

missing link and that link is the human element. This is ommited from the

currciculum of Permaculture, Biodynamics, Natural farming, many other

systems of agriculture and of course western farming.

My mission is to try and re-establish this missing link back into ORGANIC

farming. N.B. Unbeknown to most people contaminated city sewage

sludge is permitted to be put onto conventional agricultural land where

normal everyday food is grown. This product contains Heavy Metals which you

will be injesting along with all the chemical residues you get with that

kind of food.

 

ys Radha Krsna das

I don't mean to bore you but this is my subject; so you can click off this

now

 

To make a relevant quote, however; Howard wrote:

Practically none of our urban waste finds its way back to the land. The

wastes of the population, in most western countries, are first diluted with

large volumes of WATER and then after varying amounts of purification, are

discharged either into the rivers or the sea. Beyond a little of the

resulting sewage sludge the residues of the population are entirely lost to

agriculture.

>From the point of view of farming the towns have become parasites. They will

last under the present system only as long as the earth's fertility lasts.

Then the whole fabric of our civilization must collapse.

 

Of course times have moved on a little since Howard's time and at the end of

1999 no one will be allowed to tip sewage sludge into the sea (uk) so what

they have come up with is 'Biogran' (developed in Switzerland) a (concrete)

plant that dehydrates stool, pellets it, and sells it back to regular

farmers. This also contains the same heavy metals.

 

Coming shortly on Agriculture and the Environment:

How to avoid heavy metals in fertilizer originating from 'contaminated city

sewage'. (a multi million pound industry)

[Guest guest]

On 25 Feb 1999, Rohita Dasa wrote:

 

 

> One method is use your muscle to make compost, the other is to use your

> intellect to have the cows deposit

> it at the desired final destination. This second method requires increased

> control of the movement of the

> cows instead of the manure they produce. Regardless of what method you use

to

> maintain or improve

> fertility there must always be sufficient forage available.

 

Rohita Prabhu,

 

How is this second method of composting implemented?

 

ys,

Madhusudana das

[Guest guest]

>How is this second method of composting implemented?

 

>ys,

>Madhusudana das

 

Hare Krsna,

 

Thank you for your enquiry.

Bhakti Tirtha Swami is very much interested to see this system of fertility

implemented at Gita Nagari. Every temple has a waste problem.

 

This method of composting all your cow manure is best acheived through the

INDORE method, as devised by Sir Albert Howard in India circa 1920-30, in

conjunction with other organic wastes.

So successful was his method that this system spread all over the world and

indeed was the success of many sugar cane and tea plantations in different

parts of the world. It was also of great impetus to the founding of the Soil

Associations of the world.

 

I first discovered this system myself, after being led to his original books

at Wye College, London University, on the Goshala-farm at Bhaktivedanta

Manor in England. I had made several bins of compost, out of general temple

refuse, garden waste from the devotees allotments a great deal of kitchen

waste and many boxes of gone off oranges, grapefruits etc., according to the

very simple instructions given in the book - no additives required other

than a cow-dung slurry and wood ashes.

I used one seventh part cow dung and urine evenly mixed with straw from the

cattleshed floor.

I had completed the first half of the process diligently, by performing a

couple of 'turns' (turning the compost). This only takes a short time.

I then had to go away from the temple for a month. Incidentally doing this

clearing the sheds daily is far less work than having to do it all in one go

after 3 or 4 months when it becomes heavey and compacted and strongly

smelling of ammonia, (nitrogen loss). This is supported by the fact that at

the Manor farm a mechanical digger is employed to get the dung out of the

pens every 3 months or so. It doesn't seem to be a job that anyone wants to

do manually all in one go. Excrusiating!

 

When I returned to my astonishment the compost heaps had 'gone' I thought

the life member director had had a change of plan for the grounds and had

removed the contents of these bins with a JCB. And replaced them with some

fine sandy looking earth. It dawned on me that actually what I was looking

at was fully synthesised manure made from the temple and goshala refuse, of

the highest manurial variety.

 

With the instruction book 'The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation' comes a

plastic re-usable chart which is the time scale for treating the Indore

heaps. All one has to do is follow the instructions.

 

The outcome is that the finished product is three times more valuable than

farmyard manure (Howard). It is readily assimilated by the soil into plant

food for the immediate use of any crop. There is no time lapse while the

soil struggles to digest ordinary farmyard manure which if planted upon

gives a poor start to growth and leaves the plant organism open for disease

and parasite. This amounts to overworking the soil and so Mother earth

protests and the results are the effects of her protesting.

 

We are also ready soon to ship out our specially designed organic/separator

toilet ie for use in the house or on the farm or garden allotment. The

contents of which can be turned into earth in 90 days in conjunction with

your Indore compost heap, another valuable renewable energy, which is again

a most potent fertilizer. We grew 11 inch broccolli on this the first year

and offered it to Sivarama Maharaja. All you have to do then is to add a

layer of finished compost to your garden once a year. No digging required.

(thus saving labour) In this way you will build up worm populations, a

fundamental bonus for maintaining fertility.

 

Sir Albert Howard wrote an introduction to a book by Charles Darwin on the

subject of earth worms.....If you can acheive 16 million to the acre, you'll

be doing fine. You will actually be adding to your soil storehouse. I think

it's 44% of organic farms in the UK are subject to soil erosion. (Dr. N.

Lampkin, Organic Farming)....I am meeting with him later this month in

London.

 

Your servant,

 

Radha Krsna das.

 

I was wrong

[Guest guest]

>GREENER PASTURES ON YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE

>(Better Farming with Voisin Grazing Management)

>by Bill Murphy

>ISBN# 0-9617807-1-1 softcover

 

Yes, I would also like to get this book, but I may find it unavailable in

the UK as is Manasobu Fukuokas' the Green Philosophy of Natural Farming.

 

Both systems can esaily be undertaken. If you're trying to acheive grassland

then you want to create a rotational grazing system. This was the subject of

one of my seminars in Mayapur, as the attendance was mostly westeners.

If you are keeping your animals in a penned system then you need to address

the proper use of the end product. However this may well depend on what your

climate is like and how much of the year you need to keep your animals

inside.

Britain and India both have conditions which justify a cattleshed system.

And in India they beleive that folding the animals onto the land creates too

much damage and more crop can be realized by cutting the grass by hand and

feeding in a pen situation. There is also the danger of the cows eating too

close to the crown of the plant and therefore delaying revival.

And there is always the Goshala for the milkers and calvers, and calves to

consider. Temples all have a major set of waste products flowing out of them

- these are highly valuable and can multiply your arable returns, as

described earlier. Also in India green manuring is virtually ineffective.

Utilize everything and waste nothing, this is called the whole concept of

complete recycling.

 

See Agriculture and the Environment for details of upcoming London

conference: 'Organic Farming: implications for the Environment.

[Guest guest]

Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties

On 25 Feb 1999, Rohita Dasa wrote:

 

Rohita dasa

> One method is use your muscle to make compost, the other is to use your

intellect to have the cows

deposit it at the desired final destination. This second method requires

increased control of the movement

of the cows instead of the manure they produce. Regardless of what method you

use to maintain or

improve fertility there must always be sufficient forage available.

 

Madhusudana das

How is this second method of composting implemented?

 

Comment 990303:

The second method, as applied to pasture land is called 'rapid rotational

grazing (RRG)', by managing the

amount of time a cow herd spends on pasture and restricting their movement

their wastes (dung and urine)

will be left. While this means of fertilizing grazing land is not strictly

composting in the common sense, it is

closer to a form called sheet composting, the result is the same. By using

compost instead of spreading

manure on a field as Radha Krsna Prabhu has stated you receive an eight fold

increase in yield. 'RRG' will

not have an eight fold increase in yield, it will have after a four to six

year period a gradual increase in soil

fertility that is sufficient to produce the required growth and milk

production to the same level that large

applications of chemical fertilizers do, but without the deteriorative

effects.

 

These wastes will be left in a uniform disbursement.

 

In most grazing procedures the animals are place in too large an area where

they choose the most nutritious

plants and leave behind second, third .... rank grasses until all the first

class is gone then they graze the next

rank. This procedure will have two effects, both produce the effect commonly

called over-grazing.

 

1. Manure is unevenly distributed, imparting an over-abundance of fertility in

some areas and a shortage in

others. This leads to deficiencies in the soil and soil compaction.

 

2. The gradual disappearance of the desired grasses and the emergence of grass

species that are tolerant of

the change in soil conditions, these grasses are usually inferior in nature as

cow feed. Also other plants that

are not grasses will become more prominent. This leads to a decrease in the

carrying capacity of this area.

 

A description of this method could be written, personally it is nicely

described in two books that I will refer

you to. A simple explanation is given in, Greener Pastures and a more

detailed explanation of all

the variables in, Grass Production by Andre Voisin.

 

If one has a year round grazing this grazing method can be used on cropland

once the fertility is brought up

to a proper maintenance level, with annual ryegrass-clover being grazed in the

winter (Nov.-Feb.) allowed to

be used as green manure in April and Summer crops (eggplant, tomatoes, rice

.... ) planted in June. This

requires planting of winter grazing in October and liming (east of Mississippi

river).

ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

COM: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP (GB) wrote:

 

> [Text 2134178 from COM]

>

> >GREENER PASTURES ON YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE

> >(Better Farming with Voisin Grazing Management)

> >by Bill Murphy

> >ISBN# 0-9617807-1-1 softcover

>

> Yes, I would also like to get this book, but I may find it unavailable in

> the UK as is Manasobu Fukuokas' the Green Philosophy of Natural Farming.

>

> Both systems can esaily be undertaken. If you're trying to acheive grassland

> then you want to create a rotational grazing system. This was the subject of

> one of my seminars in Mayapur, as the attendance was mostly westeners.

> If you are keeping your animals in a penned system then you need to address

> the proper use of the end product. However this may well depend on what your

> climate is like and how much of the year you need to keep your animals

> inside.

> Britain and India both have conditions which justify a cattleshed system.

> And in India they beleive that folding the animals onto the land creates too

> much damage and more crop can be realized by cutting the grass by hand and

> feeding in a pen situation.

 

***********************

It seems that there should not be any misunderstanding about this question.

The

way it is stated above I am afraid that many readers may get the mistaken

impression that keeping cows confined in a cattle pen is just as good as

putting

them on a rotational grazing program. They may also get the mistaken

impression

that rotational grazing is not possible in India.

 

First of all, we have to consider Who invented rotational grazing and where on

earth it was first practiced. As any devotee will learn, rotational grazing

was

invented by Krsna and Balarama and was first practiced around Vrndavana, when

Krsna and Balarama and the cowherd boys took the cows to fresh pastures every

day. The system which They have established is by far the healthiest for the

cows, and the one in which the cows are the happiest. Confinement systems are

always second best. Some amount of confinement may be necessitated by various

circumstances, but it is never the ideal system for the health and comfort of

the cows.

 

The statement is made "in India they believe" that grazing animals on the land

creates too much damage. This certainly points to a need for research and

development to re-establish the type of grazing system demonstrated by Krsna

and

Balarama, so that such a misinformed belief can be corrected.

 

Very sadly, there seems to be no funding or trained manpower to develop such

research for the cows.

 

The quotes below indicate how much Srila Prabhupada prized the idea of cows

grazing peacefully on the pasture. That is followed by an excerpt from the

MINIMUM COW PROTECTION STANDARDS of the Ministry of Cow Protection and

Agriculture.

 

**************************************

 

Letter to: Hayagriva : 68-06-14 Montreal

 

For raising crops from the land, how many men will be required--that we must

estimate and for herding the cows and feeding them. We must have sufficient

pasturing ground to feed the animals all round. We have to maintain the animals

throughout their life. We must not make any program for selling them to the

slaughterhouses. That is the way of cow protection. Krishna by His practical

example taught us to give all protection to the cows and that should be the

main

business of New Vrindaban. Vrindaban is also known as Gokula. Go means cows,

and

kula means congregation. Therefore the special feature of New Vrindaban will be

cow protection, and by doing so, we shall not be loser.

 

***************************************

 

Room Conversation Calcutta, January 6, 1971 710106RC.CAL

 

Prabhupada: There must be grazing ground for cows. Then there is no problem.

 

*****************************************

 

Light of the Bhagavat:

After good rains the grazing ground for the animals was full of green pasture,

and both the bulls and the cows sat down on the grass fully satisfied. The

cows,

followed by their calves, appeared tired of grazing, because of full milk bags.

Calmly and quietly the cows and calves rested and ruminated, chewing their cud.

 

Protection and grazing ground for the cows are among the essential needs

for society and the welfare of people in general. The animal fat required for

the human body can be well derived from cow's milk. Cow's milk is very

important

for human energy, and the economic development of society depends on sufficient

food grains, sufficient milk, and sufficient transportation and distribution of

these products. Lord Sri Krsna, by His personal example, taught us the

importance of cow protection, which is meant not only for the Indian climate

but

for all human beings all over the universe.

 

*******************************************

 

IV FEEDING

Recommended

 

1) All cows should have pasturing facilities. Herding and intensive

rotational

grazing are the recommended

methods of pasturing.

 

2) Diet

....

 

f) Hay or other feed should be available for all animals when natural browsing

is insufficient to provide

minimal nutritional requirements.

 

Permitted

 

1) Pasturing with as much rotation of paddocks as possible.

 

2) Tethering when sufficient pasturing grounds are not available and under

the

following conditions:

a) All tethering should be supervised by primary cowherd.

b) There must be sufficient availability of green grass and provision for

exercise.

c) The safety and comfort of the animal is the prime consideration. E.G., Care

must be taken to guard

against a cow being strangled on a rope especially in hilly areas.

....

 

4) If grazing grounds are inadequate for the number of cows then there must

be

a plan to eventually provide

grazing land or replenish existing land.

 

Not Allowed

 

1) Tethering which fails to meet even the Permitted standards described

above.

 

2) Total confinement.

[Guest guest]

Rohita das wrote:

>In most grazing procedures the animals are place in too large an area where

>they choose the most nutritious

>plants and leave behind second, third .... rank grasses until all the first

>class is gone then they graze the next

>rank. This procedure will have two effects, both produce the effect

>commonly called over-grazing.

 

>1. Manure is unevenly distributed, imparting an over-abundance of fertility

>in some areas and a shortage in

>others. This leads to deficiencies in the soil and soil compaction.

 

>2. The gradual disappearance of the desired grasses and the emergence of

>grass species that are tolerant of

>the change in soil conditions, these grasses are usually inferior in nature

>as cow feed. Also other plants that

>are not grasses will become more prominent. This leads to a decrease in the

>carrying capacity of this area.

 

Comment:

This is why it is so important to distribute the dung evenly by using the

chain harrow. A practice I have not yet witnessed in ISKCON. The rank

grasses are -produced by such deposits of dung just left on the field. The

animals would rather starve than eat this kind of grass.

 

There has just been an outbreak of E-Coli (517) on a dairy farm in GB. 20

people are in hospital. This is why it is so important to farm very well in

order to avoid disease.

 

heres a quote from an agricultural title: Climate of GB.

 

'The Value of grazing; the relationship of clovers to grasses; the ability

of clovers to feed the grasses with nitrogen...

 

Compost is an inevitable process on a farm which produces, as we do, some

fifty ricks of straw a year, besides all the vegetable waste of every kind

from the ditches. the hedgerows, roadsides, woodlands and various other

places....all of which should be turned into compost. Compost is invaluable

whether it is shallow ploughed or disced into the arable land, or used as a

surface dressing for the oncoming grasses and clovers. (personally, I prefer

the use of the disc harrow, as it is quicker and less likely to do damage by

the plough going too deep., RKD.)

.....The mechanization of compost making is the way by which it can be

economically performed under modern conditions, when wages are such a

serious item in the cost of running a farm. (I have made reference to this

point in my book also).........

There is no method of manufacturing humus better than the four years' ley,

and grazing that ley with a mixture of livestock in a highly scientific

way........

The value of, and the scientific reasons for the periodical grazing of

pastures containing large mixtures of clover particularly wild white clover

and American Sweet clover are the subject for discussion and writings by

many authorities.'

 

This is why humus manufacture is so important, as as Rohita prabhu says if

this is not done then weeds (like couch etc.,) and other inferior grasses

will emerge. This is why it is good to plough grassland after some time and

seww fresh grasses. from what I can see this is of much importance, whereas

old pasture, or permanent pasture often becomes diseased and over grazed and

compacted. Tenth Canto states that the cows were always in search of fresh

grasses....?? (These are the most nutritous.)

[Guest guest]

> Compost is invaluable

> whether it is shallow ploughed or disced into the arable land, or used as a

> surface dressing for the oncoming grasses and clovers. (personally, I prefer

> the use of the disc harrow, as it is quicker and less likely to do damage by

> the plough going too deep., RKD.)

 

My father switched to the chisel plow in the early 60s. By the late 80s,

almost everyone in North Dakota had switched to the chisel plow or were out of

business. Balarama uses a chisel plow.

 

> This is why humus manufacture is so important, as as Rohita prabhu says if

> this is not done then weeds (like couch etc.,) and other inferior grasses

> will emerge. This is why it is good to plough grassland after some time and

> seww fresh grasses.

 

In hilly places like West Virginia, most pasture land is on steep ground that

would be very damaged by plowing. Although pasturing is viable some of the

year, for much of the year pasturing is damaging and needs to be avoided. We

really need to look at particular circumstances when we make recommendations.

 

>

[Guest guest]

>In hilly places like West Virginia, most pasture land is on steep ground

>that would be very damaged by plowing. Although pasturing is viable some

>of the year, for much of the year pasturing is damaging and needs to be

>avoided. We really need to look at particular circumstances when we make

>recommendations.

 

Yes, one cannot take account of so many particular circumstances in a

discussion on a computer. How do I know yours is a Hill farm?

 

It's interesting you mentioning the chisel plough. By this name I take it

you mean a shallow chisel plough, rather than a mouldboard plough.

This is what I don't approve of for other than turning grassland into

arable. A shallow chisel plough is completely different. And what you use

may again be somewhat different to Balaram's plough, which is used in India.

 

This is called a PAPRI breaking plough. It is used for cracking the pan left

by the sun to allow the soil to be aerated.

 

Please Madhava prabhu, can you deliberate. dimensions and how deep you use

your chisel plough.

 

By chisel plough in England, it is meant a subsoiler an implement that is

only used once every eight years or so, or at the end of every double

rotation, every four feet apart, cross hatching the field. to crack the pan

of the sub-soil to release nutrients, especially on land that has been over

grazed for years. This implement goes into the ground about two feet deep

depending on your 'particular circumstances', this does however involve a

tractor or traction engine of some kind.

But I feel with good rotation and the right crops, without abmormal

conditions we (the devotees) my never have to use this implement after an

initial attempt to bring tired land back into good heart, quickly.

 

>>Yes, one cannot take account of so many particular circumstances in a

>>discussion on a computer. How do I know yours is a Hill farm?

 

I could go on......these are merely old texts

Another important point of shallow ploughing, or discing, according to the

depth of your humus layer is the aquired ability of the soil to collect and

retain water.. Soil erosion, even on fairly steep banks,(but Madhava, maybe

your bank is steeper than this fairly steep bank) when humus content is

high, does not occur. Moreover, where the top few inches are heavily charged

with humus, it is seldom to be seen that water 'runs off' either from the

surface or through any pipe-line in the soil.

 

>From every point of view it is desirable that humus should not be buried too

deeply, ie by the turning over of a mouldboard plough (as Abhirama prabhu

has so kindly stressed) The North American farmers have realized, I've

heard, after loosing millions of acres to dust bowls, and taken to surface

cultivation , as in parts of France also...but many big big farms in the UK

still plough to a depth of 8 -10 inches! Apart from the great fertilizing

qualities of humus, it's ability to feed and breed countless

micro-organisms, and it's many other faculties working for the good of the

land, one of the most important functions of humus is it's volumetric

capacity to absorb water. It has been estimated that one cubic foot of bone

dry prepared humus will absorb 60 lbs of water. It is just like a sponge and

will absorb it's volumetric capacity without any way altering it's shape or

physical characteristics. Thus it provides a continuous resevior of moisture

upon which the growing plant can draw........

 

In Croatia last summer. it was noted by Smita Krsna Maharaja and myself that

the one devotee who had run out of time to weed his field had in fact far

better results and less bugs and pestilence than those who went all out to

get rid of the weeds! and then didn't compost them!

We concluded in our own observation that these, (can and should be cultured

weeds among crops), protect the humus layer from the burning sun, thus

holding in moisture which is readily available to the plants. He also had

no time or necessity to irrigate. Howard called this 'earth's green carpet.'

He said no where in nature do you see a clean cultivated field! Only man in

his modern wisdom sees this as fit!

This is also the considered opinion of Fukuoka and Mollison. (and nmany

others)

 

Thus it is this aspect that is so valuable to Indian agriculture.

 

Also I spent hours cultivating a large field, about 20 acres with the

devotees tractor in Croatia. The field had been deep ploughed the previous

season and unfortunatley abandoned. The weeds were six feet high. If I got

off the tractor I was lost! However with the neighbors DISC harrow I smashed

all these huge undesirable weeds, which had unfortunatley begun to seed,

back into the ground, but only into the top 3 to 5 inches of soil, thus

creating a massive compost attempt.

If this field were subsequently treated appropriately I beleive it would be

extremely fertile.

 

One can cultivate, even undesirable weeds this big for the sole reason of

fertility making, BUT NOT letting them seed would be the correct step to

take to bring the field under control. This all may take a couple of

seasons, but I beleive this is a far superior method after which bulls could

easily keep the surface cultivation up without much difficulty.

 

Your servant,

 

Radha Krsna das.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> It's interesting you mentioning the chisel plough. By this name I take it

> you mean a shallow chisel plough, rather than a mouldboard plough.

> This is what I don't approve of for other than turning grassland into

> arable. A shallow chisel plough is completely different. And what you use

> may again be somewhat different to Balaram's plough, which is used in India.

>

 

The chisel plow I use is a 3 inch wide shovel spaced 1 foot apart on centers,

goes about 1 foot deep. Followed by a shallow discing.

 

> By chisel plough in England, it is meant a subsoiler an implement that is

> only used once every eight years or so, or at the end of every double

> rotation, every four feet apart, cross hatching the field. to crack the pan

> of the sub-soil to release nutrients, especially on land that has been over

> grazed for years. This implement goes into the ground about two feet deep

> depending on your 'particular circumstances', this does however involve a

> tractor or traction engine of some kind.

 

Yes, that is what I call a subsoiler. Mostly needed if there has been years of

moldboard plowing going on.

 

> I could go on......these are merely old texts

> Another important point of shallow ploughing, or discing, according to the

> depth of your humus layer is the aquired ability of the soil to collect and

> retain water.. Soil erosion, even on fairly steep banks,(but Madhava, maybe

> your bank is steeper than this fairly steep bank) when humus content is

> high, does not occur. Moreover, where the top few inches are heavily charged

> with humus, it is seldom to be seen that water 'runs off' either from the

> surface or through any pipe-line in the soil.

 

it is very steep in on most of the pastures so tillage is counterindicated.

[Guest guest]

Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

>The chisel plow I use is a 3 inch wide shovel spaced 1 foot apart on

>centers, goes about 1 foot deep. Followed by a shallow discing.

 

I am surprised it goes about 1 foot deep. Is this used every season?

 

And is the purpose of this simply to loosen and aerate the soil? or is there

more?

 

> Followed by a shallow discing.

 

Please also can you detail your disc harrow.

I prefer to use large wheeled varieties...

[Guest guest]

COM: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP (GB) wrote:

 

> [Text 2167816 from COM]

>

> Madhava Gosh wrote:

>

> >The chisel plow I use is a 3 inch wide shovel spaced 1 foot apart on

> >centers, goes about 1 foot deep. Followed by a shallow discing.

>

> I am surprised it goes about 1 foot deep. Is this used every season?

 

Yes, preferably when the soil is quite dry. Sometimes if soil conditions are

too wet too late int he season, the chiseling is skipped a year.

 

>

>

> And is the purpose of this simply to loosen and aerate the soil? or is there

> more?

 

Yes, aeration and drainage.

 

>

>

> > Followed by a shallow discing.

>

> Please also can you detail your disc harrow.

> I prefer to use large wheeled varieties...

 

We have a large , heavy disc, capable of cutting heavy organic matter. It'll

roll right over corn stalks. Usually disc 4-6 inches deep which keeps the

organic matter in the top part of the soil.

[Guest guest]

>We have a large , heavy disc, capable of cutting heavy organic matter.

>It'll roll right over corn stalks. Usually disc 4-6 inches deep which

>keeps the organic matter in the top part of the soil.

 

Brilliant! can we get some dimensions of this implement that is suited to

Ox drawn power. I need one in the UK.

[Guest guest]

"COM: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP GB (Great Britain)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2183101 from COM]

>

> >We have a large , heavy disc, capable of cutting heavy organic matter.

> >It'll roll right over corn stalks. Usually disc 4-6 inches deep which

> >keeps the organic matter in the top part of the soil.

>

> Brilliant! can we get some dimensions of this implement that is suited to

> Ox drawn power. I need one in the UK.

 

Alas, it is tractor drawn and too big to convert to oxen. The company that

made it was called Miller. The discs would be buyable as it is necessary to

replace them from time to time, so by using compnents available it would be

possible for someone who is good at machinery to fabricate one. It is

really heavy, so without use of hydraulics, transportation from field to

field would be difficult.

 

Although when I was young and use of hydraulics wasn't a given, we used to

have a very low slung, long trailer where the bed was at axle level. We

would disconnect the disc, then pull the trailor right in front of it, put

down some planks and pull it up on the trailor with a chain. that was the old

fashioned lighter disc of course. The Miller disc has adjustable angle,

double gang, so it is possible to cut deeper or lesser by changing the angle.

A really light disc can be straightened out and almost dragged from field to

field, but the heavy disc cuts even when straightened due to the weight.