prasada to poor people

[Guest guest]

Dear jayadwaita Maharaja,

 

Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your lotus feet.All glories to Sri

Guru and Gauranga.

 

I just got caught in the conversation.Can I ask you a question Maharaja.?

 

What is wrong if the devotees go to the poor areas and distribute Prasadam.?

 

In some countries like in Mauritius, the people have the tendencies of looking

at religion when they go towards the poor and do humanitarian works.

Such as in the case of Prasadam distribution, poeple give us respect. Not only

that, but we get greater praise and tremendous support from the community.

 

Would it be good to limit the prasadam distribution programme, from the site of

our temple only.?

 

After all, going towards the people has always been quite successful all the

time. Let us look at Sakirtan and books distribution.These devotional

activities have always been favourable and responsive to us in terms of

approach.This is because, we go to the people.

 

Now, if we say, "let the people come to us". Does it mean that we are turning

around and telling people that you should come to us , intead of we going to

you.?

 

Is there any sense, that we could be shifting from our philosophical approach.?

Because, we are in sankirtan mood in the spirit of Vairagya vidya.!!!

 

 

 

Your servant

Mukta purusa das.

 

 

-

Jayadvaita Swami

Bhakti Vikasa Swami ; Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) ; Hari Sauri

(das) ACBSP ; Balarama LOK

Cc: GBC Unmoderated ; India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum) ; ISKCON

India (news & discussion) ; Prabhupada Disciples ; Mahavishnu Swami (ACBSP)

(Bangladesh / Nepal) ; Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (NE-BBT)

Monday, December 17, 2001 5:05 PM

prasada to poor people

 

 

Mayapur

 

 

 

His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja asks:

 

> How does the following instruction from Srila Prabhupada tally with

> his famous one that no one within ten miles of our temples should go

> hungry?

>

>

>

> So far prasada distribution, it is not a question of rich or poor.

> That will be Karma Kanda. Our program therefore is that we offer

> prasada to everyone. Make our temple so nice that everyone who comes

> is offered some prasada. Not that we are after poor men. It is nice

> that we are feeding 200 daily, but gradually try to increase. But do

> not advertise, we shall be self-advertising. And do not go to poor

> areas, this is not our philosophy. Our philosophy is prasada

> distribution, without discrimination rich or poor.

>

> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Giriraja -- Honolulu 15 May, 1972

 

 

 

May I offer an answer from Srila Prabhupada?

 

As follows:

 

----------------------------

Prabhupada: . . . whatever income you'll get from this record

business, spend it for giving prasadam. So we have got so many

centers, they will feed.

 

Ramesvara: But they... That way a whole new...

 

Prabhupada: Therefore I started Mayapura this prasada distribution.

And it is coming to be successful. People are, politicians are

appreciating that here is Hindu-Muslim unity.

 

Ramesvara: All the devotees will appreciate this then. That the

records now, the money is going to be used for food relief.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. And we can increase. The same thing (indistinct) in

the farm, in the village, "Come on, any number, I shall feed you. Come

here, chant Hare Krsna, and take prasadam." And we shall increase the

quality of the prasadam. They will be very much pleased to come and

chant. That I want. I am interested in these rascals (indistinct). . .

I used to think like that. In all our temples the prasada distribution

should be so random (?) that within ten miles nobody should remain

hungry. There are many persons in India, they are half time hungry. So

if you distribute prasadam, "Come over here. You are hungry, take

prasadam. If I cannot supply daily, I'll supply at least two days,

three days weekly." And they're coming. You have seen Mayapura

(indistinct). A big prasada distribution hall. Regular two thousands

are coming (indistinct). And Hindu, Muslim, they're sitting down. No

(indistinct).

 

Hari-sauri: Is there any reason why we are just distribute on a

Saturday and Sunday?

 

Prabhupada: Oh, (indistinct) we can distribute every day.

 

Hari-sauri: Let them come every day.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. . . . Let them eat. They can eat.

 

--Conversation, 13 Jan 77, Allahabad

 

------------------------------

 

Again, the same consistent themes: Profuse distribution of prasadam.

Along with Hare Krishna sankirtana. At all of our temples.

 

And we can understand the instruction further by seeing how Srila

Prabhupada implemented it--at Sridham Mayapur, the place where he

asked that all funds from the 1970's "ISKCON Food Relief" be sent.

 

There, Srila Prabhupada arranged for profuse distribution of prasadam.

 

As His Holiness Tamal Krishna Maharaja recalls in "Servant of the

Servant":

 

While the other temples in the area only distributed prasadam

during the annual festival of Lord Caitanya's birthday, Srila

Prabhupada had ordered that our Mayapur Chandrodaya temple

distribute prasadam at least twice a week, and if possible every

day. As a result, THOUSANDS CAME, MANY WALKING AS MUCH AS TWENTY

MILES FROM DISTANT VILLAGES. [emphasis mine]

 

Mayapur too is where Jayapataka Maharaja, in 1976, was instructed:

 

Regarding food distribution, they may come to take at our

Temple. With travelling sankirtana we can distribute

wherever we go, but not to the emergency spot, like that.

 

 

 

Here's another instruction from Srila Prabhupada:

 

So, take more land and engage them in agriculture, plowing by the

bulls instead of tractor. Bulls can be engaged in plowing and

transporting. Nice bullock carts village to village for preaching.

Make the farm the center and go ten miles this side, ten miles that

side, ten miles this side, etc., with four bullock carts. Sell books

and preach and live peacefully on the farm.

 

--letter to Balavanta, 3 Jan 77

 

Presumably when you go village to village with your bullocks to preach

and sell books, you also distribute prasadam.

 

So I find that all these instructions tally very well.

 

By the way, since Basu Ghosh Prabhu is a receiver to this chain of

messages, I'd like to take the opportunity to compliment him publicly

for his beautiful, exemplary program of large-scale distribution of

free kichadi prasadam--to rich and poor alike--every day on the front

lawn of ISKCON Baroda.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Guest guest]

true but it does not make him an less of a devotee by doing mundane work

 

AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad " Why only sometimes " to a devotee that

express feeling sorry for the poor in India (paraphrased)

-

"Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP" <Hari.Sauri.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

"GBC Unmoderated" <GBC.Unmoderated (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "India (Continental

Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Jayadvaita Swami"

<Jayadvaita.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (NE-BBT)"

<Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Balarama LOK" <Balarama.LOK (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:24 PM

prasada to poor people

 

 

> > On 18 Dec 2001, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> >

> > > Thankyou, Jayadvaita Maharaja, for this analysis which reveals that

> > > according to Srila Prabhupada there's a lot of mundane welfare work

> > > going on in ISKCON.

> >

> > And George Harrison, was he a mundaine welfare worker? The first record

I

> > got from Iskcon was about George helping the hungry children in

> > Bengladesh. So, he was to my opinion. Can we have both: like mundane and

> > spt welfare work? Or it has to be only transcendental?

>

> I think George was not a full time member of ISKCON nor was he doing

> the Bangladesh concert under the banner of ISKCON so that's not really a

> good comparison. As an individual one can do whatever one wants; ISKCON as

a

> society has an obligation to only engage in activities endorsed by Srila

> Prabhupada as the founder-acaray.

>

> Your humble servant,

> Hari-sauri dasa

[Guest guest]

It is not mundane if they are getting Krsna prasada

-

"Bhakti Vikasa Swami" <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

"Jayadvaita Swami" <Jayadvaita.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP

(Baroda - IN)" <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP"

<Hari.Sauri.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Balarama LOK" <Balarama.LOK (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Cc: "Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (NE-BBT)" <Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "GBC

Unmoderated" <GBC.Unmoderated (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "India (Continental Committee)

Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Monday, December 17, 2001 11:58 PM

prasada to poor people

 

 

> Thankyou, Jayadvaita Maharaja, for this analysis which reveals that

> according to Srila Prabhupada there's a lot of mundane welfare work going

on

> in ISKCON.

[Guest guest]

very good

-

"Babhru (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA)" <Babhru.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

"GBC Unmoderated" <GBC.Unmoderated (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "India (Continental

Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Prabhupada Disciples"

<Prabhupada.Disciples (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)"

<Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Friday, December 21, 2001 1:04 AM

Re: prasada to poor people

 

 

> At 10:42 AM 12/18/2001 -1000, you wrote:

> >On 18 Dec 2001, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> >

> > > Thankyou, Jayadvaita Maharaja, for this analysis which reveals that

> > > according to Srila Prabhupada there's a lot of mundane welfare work

> > going on

> > > in ISKCON.

> >

> >And George Harrison, was he a mundaine welfare worker? The first record I

got

> >from Iskcon was about George helping the hungry children in Bengladesh.

So, he

> >was to my opinion. Can we have both: like mundane and spt welfare work?

Or it

> >has to be only transcendental?

>

> As Hari Sauri prabhu pointed out recently, an individual may do whatever

he

> or she sees fit. As for the institution, however, we should try our best

to

> ensure that it aims to fulfill the purposes for which it was founded.

Srila

> Prabhupada listed seven purposes when he established the International

> Society for Krishna Consciousness:

> (a) To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large

and

> to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life in order to

> check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace

> in the world.

> (b) To propagate a consciousness of Krishna, as it is revealed in the

> Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagwatam.

> © To bring the members of the Society together with each other and

nearer

> to Krishna, the prime entity, thus to develop the idea within the members,

> and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of

> Godhead (Krishna).

> (d) To teach and encourage the sankirtan movement, congregational chanting

> of the holy name of God as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Chaitanya

> Mahaprabhu.

> (e) To erect for the members and for society at large, a holy place of

> transcendental pastimes, dedicated to the Personality of Krishna.

> (f) To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a

> simpler and more natural way of life.

> (g) With a view towards achieving the aforementioned Purposes, to publish

> and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.

>

> If ISKCON's activities serve these purposes, I would suggest that they are

> certainly authorized.

>

> Babhru das

>

[Guest guest]

On 20 Dec 2001, Babhru das wrote:

 

Thank you. Ak

 

> to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life in order to

> check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace

> in the world.

 

> ...

[Guest guest]

Mukta Purusa Prabhu asks:

 

> What is wrong if the devotees go to the poor areas and distribute

> Prasadam.?

 

"So far prasada distribution, . . . do not go to poor areas, this is

not our philosophy."

 

--Srila Prabhupada, letter to Giriraja, 15 May 72

 

 

Offense 3: "To disobey the orders of the spiritual master."

 

I hope this answers the question.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Guest guest]

>· Mukta Purusa Prabhu asks:

>·

>· > What is wrong if the devotees go to the poor areas and distribute

>· > Prasadam.?

>·

>· "So far prasada distribution, . . . do not go to poor areas, this is

>· not our philosophy."

>·

>· --Srila Prabhupada, letter to Giriraja, 15 May 72

>·

>·

>· Offense 3: "To disobey the orders of the spiritual master."

>·

>· I hope this answers the question.

>·

>· Hare Krsna.

 

I see. So, you are saying that this quote from a letter to Giriraja

represents the summum bonum of all of Srila Prabhupada's instructions on

this matter, and that now that we've read it we know everything there is to

know about his opinion on the subject?

 

Hare Krishna --

 

Balarama Dasa

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Jayadvaita Swami wrote:

> Mukta Purusa Prabhu asks:

> > What is wrong if the devotees go to the poor areas and distribute

> > Prasadam.?

> "So far prasada distribution, . . . do not go to poor areas, this is

> not our philosophy."

> --Srila Prabhupada, letter to Giriraja, 15 May 72

> Offense 3: "To disobey the orders of the spiritual master."

> I hope this answers the question.

 

In case anyone wants it, here is some reasoning that might explain

this policy further (7/5/75, Chicago):

 

"Prabhupada: Yes, yesterday the mayor of this place came. Here is

a house vacant. So if we get this house, then we can begin in a mass scale.

The America is not poor. So at least on experimental stage the government

or the municipality can give us this house and arrange for some prasadam.

Simple prasada we give, not costly. We dont use meat or anything.

Lt. Mozee: Yes, sir.

Prabhupada: Vegetable, grains, that's all. But something must be given.

This is our program. So I saw yesterday the mayor. He came also very kindly.

And you have come. So you consult yourself. This place or any place, give

us some facility and see the result.

Lt. Mozee: Would you say that it should be done in an area of affluence or

an area of poverty to begin with?

Prabhupda: No, we have no distinction, such, but a place which is easily

available for all kinds of men, that is very nice. There is no such

condition that the only poor man will take benefit and the rich man, they

do not require. Everyone requires. Do you think that the criminality is

only in the poorer section?

Lt. Mozee: Oh, no.

Prabhupada: Then? Everyone is a criminal, either he is a poor man or rich

man. So we should not make such distinction, that only it is meant for the

poor man.

Lt. Mozee: No, the distinction I was attempting to draw was would there be

more benefit, would there be more of an influence, or would there be more

of a strengthening if it were in an area of affluence rather than an area

of poverty or vice versa?

Prabhupada: No, no, no, thats... Our treatment is for the diseased person.

So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man.

Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone

should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place

where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them

are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as

a poor mans hospital or rich mans. Hospital is hospital. And everyone

being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as

we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not

diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not

diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking

everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are

criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.

Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or

poverty."

 

Prabhupada's priorities seem pretty clear here. It isn't beyond

possibility that those of us who are still conditioned souls might lose

sight of Prabhupada's spiritual vision--which we should recognize as the

active priniciple of all our endeavors. Discrimination based on bodily

distinctions can (and does) quickly corrode that vision, in us at least.

I think it doesn't hurt to keep this fact in mind, and it's reasonable to

speculate that this too may have been part of Prabhupada's intention in

stating his policy so explicitly. Hare Krsna.

 

Mukunda Datta dasa

[Guest guest]

Mukunda Datta wrote:

 

> Prabhupada's priorities seem pretty clear here.

 

What still doesn't give the place to such a clinical cuts

as to disregard something else that you consider not to be

Prabhupada's priority as -- disobeying Prabhupada's orders

and hence the offence to Prabhupada, does it? Such quick

and sweeping condemnation from above have been the source of

so much tears and crack-downs in ISKCON.

 

In the letter to Cidananda, Prabhupada writes:

 

--------------

"You can arrange to supply the prasadam only to our devotees.

We are not in position financially to distribute foodstuff

for the poor class of men. Such men may take shelter of some

charitable institution. At the present moment, we are not in a

position to make charities but for the devotees we can sacrifice

anything. So you can stop preparing prasadam for persons who are

not willing to work neither to pay."

(SPL to Cidananda, February 24, 1968)

---------------

 

So, yes, one can see that Prabhupada had the sense of priority.

But the ever standing problem in ISKCON being that in too many

instances, this movement that aspires to be a globally spread

and all-inclusive worldly influential society, gets often frozen

in some particular fragments of selected statements spoken by

Prabhupada in the past. I chose the above quote to illustrate this

point. Obviously, here for Prabhupada it is basically the question

of time and financial capability to have such a charitable institutions

functioning under the banner of ISKCON. And obviously, selling the

prasadam is also the priority over the free distribution, but only

in such emergency situations as the lack of funds.

 

> It isn't beyond

> possibility that those of us who are still conditioned souls might lose

> sight of Prabhupada's spiritual vision--which we should recognize as the

> active priniciple of all our endeavors.

 

I am sorry if I may again sound cynical, but this a fear of

loosing the sight of Prabhupada's spiritual vision in the case

of the performing such missionary activities as ffl, one should

not be imposing on others who do it but rather on one's own

self. _You_, as a conditioned soul, may chose to do no charitable

act whatsoever, fearing to loose the mentioned spiritual vision of

Prabhupada. While somebody else may perform it without such fear.

(And hopefully, without being labeled as offender of a guru who

violets Prabhupada's orders.)

 

As far as "spiritual vision" itself, I doubt there is such

a genuine spiritual vision that excludes and condemns the helping

people in distress. Posted on CHAKRA by Kunti-devi dd:

 

--------------------------

 

"Those who think that devotion to God and kindness to the jivas are mutually

different from each other, and perform accordingly in their life, such

persons will not be able to follow the devotional culture. Their performance

is only a semblance of devotion.

 

"Therefore, all the types of beneficence to others, like kindness,

friendliness, forgiveness, charity, respect, etc. are included in Bhakti...

Charity of medicines, clothes, food, water, etc. shelter during adversities,

teaching of academic and spiritual education, etc. are the activities

included in the devotional culture" (Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Sri

Tattva-sutram, 35).

 

 

ISKCON seems to be really an exceptional spiritual/religious

organization in this world; I know no other one where there

is such a phobia of loosing the godly "spirituality" if the

mentioned humanitarian charitable activities be let to take

the place without condemning them as "offense to the guru".

 

> Discrimination based on bodily

> distinctions can (and does) quickly corrode that vision, in us at least.

 

Then let ISKCON not pretend to be a "society" with the intention

of growing into a global all-inclusive Vedic-like society. Then

go to the caves, for there only you will have the opportunity

to be spared from discriminating on base of bodily distinctions.

 

Even taking the very renunciation order of life, a sannyas,

is based on such discrimination based on bodily distinction.

But when it comes to give a free food to starving children and

women in Africa or India or elsewhere, to give them some relieve

from the great distress, then we are all of sudden aware of all

the danger for our spirituality if we discriminate there.

 

What much more is corrosive to that spiritual vision (as suggested

above by you), in my opinion it is summarized in the above words

of Bhaktivinode Thakura. Especially for us the souls that you

rightly called "still conditioned".

 

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

>· Such quick

>· and sweeping condemnation from above have been the source of

>· so much tears and crack-downs in ISKCON.

 

>· I am sorry if I may again sound cynical, but this a fear of

>· loosing the sight of Prabhupada's spiritual vision in the case

>· of the performing such missionary activities as ffl, one should

>· not be imposing on others who do it but rather on one's own

>· self. _You_, as a conditioned soul, may chose to do no charitable

>· act whatsoever, fearing to loose the mentioned spiritual vision of

>· Prabhupada. While somebody else may perform it without such fear.

>· (And hopefully, without being labeled as offender of a guru who

>· violets Prabhupada's orders.)

 

>· As far as "spiritual vision" itself, I doubt there is such

>· a genuine spiritual vision that excludes and condemns the helping

>· people in distress.

 

Thank you, Mahanidhi Prabhu, for this intelligent, common-sense analysis.

 

Hare Krishna --

 

your servant, Balarama Dasa

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2001, Mahanidhi (das) (S) wrote:

> Mukunda Datta wrote:

> > Prabhupada's priorities seem pretty clear here.

> What still doesn't give the place to such a clinical cuts

> as to disregard something else that you consider not to be

> Prabhupada's priority as -- disobeying Prabhupada's orders

> and hence the offence to Prabhupada, does it? Such quick

> and sweeping condemnation from above have been the source of

> so much tears and crack-downs in ISKCON.

Sure, let's take everything into consideration; we're only trying

to do what Krsna wants. I offered just one possible explanation for

Srila Prabhupada's instructions that we avoid distributing prasada

exclusively to the poor. There must be others.

 

 

 

> As far as "spiritual vision" itself, I doubt there is such

> a genuine spiritual vision that excludes and condemns the helping

> people in distress.

Srila Prabhupada made the point that there is no one who is not

in distress in material existence; what I suggested earlier is that we

often lose sight of this crucial understanding when we single out the

relatively poor; even such repeated mental associations are often enough

to effect what the Bhagavatam calls "viparyayah smrti" (i.e., forgetfulness).

It is for such reasons that vaidhi-bhakti adopts somewhat artificial

methods of preserving it; I suggested this as a possible basis for Prabhupada's

(repeated, mind you) instructions that we not focus on feeding only the

poor. Helping the distressed is of course not even being questioned, I

hope.

 

 

 

> > Discrimination based on bodily

> > distinctions can (and does) quickly corrode that vision, in us at least.

> Then let ISKCON not pretend to be a "society" with the intention

> of growing into a global all-inclusive Vedic-like society. Then

> go to the caves, for there only you will have the opportunity

> to be spared from discriminating on base of bodily distinctions.

This is a good argument; in fact, the whole varnasrama system is

based on discrimination, and precisely because it is all-inclusive. Even

in devotional service, discrimination is also the keyword of madhyamadhikari

status. In these respects, I agree that we probably need more discrimination

in ISKCON. However, in my above statement, I meant only discrimination with

the distribution of God's mercy (prasada). Sorry this wasn't clear enough.

 

 

 

> But when it comes to give a free food to starving children and

> women in Africa or India or elsewhere, to give them some relieve

> from the great distress, then we are all of sudden aware of all

> the danger for our spirituality if we discriminate there.

Yes, as explained above, I think that awareness is quite

important.

 

Thanks for your comments,

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

Dear Maharaja,

 

Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your lotus feet.All glories to

Srila Prabhupad.

 

Bhagvad Gita says " a pure devotee of the lord sees even a dog on an equal

platform.".Could you comment if Our Srila Prabhupad was not on this

platform.

 

If he is a pure devotee, how can he omit the instructions of the lord."

 

After all, the duty of the chase wife is to follow the intructions of the

husband and not to order it.

Can we guess the story of Caitanya Caritamrita.

 

Your servant

Mukta purusa das.

[Guest guest]

Mukunda Datta wrote:

 

> Sure, let's take everything into consideration; we're only trying

> to do what Krsna wants.

 

Nicely said. Thanks. And I hope Jayadvaita Maharaja and some

other ISKCON sannyasis and senior men would also agree with you.

 

> I offered just one possible explanation for

> Srila Prabhupada's instructions that we avoid distributing prasada

> exclusively to the poor. There must be others.

 

Any organized society, so ISKCON too, unavoidably gets

department-focused-on in the various fields of activities.

Thus you will have, for example, the funds raising programs

that will *exclusively* go to the rich and wealthy people,

bringing nice (free!) prasadam to them and "cultivating" them

in the various ways. They don't even look at the poor. Why?

Because they got the particular goal to achieve, and that

is NOT to indiscriminately distribute Krsna's mercy equally

to poor and reach, beautiful and ugly, short and long...

But to eventually solicit the wealthy and -- to collect the

donation as bigger as possible.

 

Thus some exclusively concentrate on rich. Others on the

intellectual class. Others on scientific circles. Others

on famous people... Yet some, like FFL, concentrate on giving

Krsna's mercy to poor. Thus on that way FFL brings about some

balance in ISKCON in term of not discriminating, in general

sense.

 

But why only FFL-program has become such a torn in some people's

eyes? Why not the found-rizing programs too? PR-programs as well

as.

 

> Srila Prabhupada made the point that there is no one who is not

> in distress in material existence;

 

Yes, I have understood that. Mr. Bill Gates is in distress. A

belly-blown child dying on a mother's dried out piece of a

skin-like bag (that is sometimes called a "milk-feeding breast"

in the Anatomy catalogs), her bones piercing the skin... they

are in distress too.

 

But then... Bill Gates will not come to you to eat your Krsna's

prasadam even if you pay him. And the dying child and mother

will not come either. But you will not be allowed to go to

them for they are dying in -- poor areas. Or else, Offense

Nr.3.

(Sure, you are allowed to go to Bill Gates, so far so the Rule

Offense Nr.3 is concerned. If his bunch of security gorillas let

you, of course.)

 

> what I suggested earlier is that we

> often lose sight of this crucial understanding when we single out the

> relatively poor;

 

> I suggested this as a possible basis for Prabhupada's

> (repeated, mind you) instructions that we not focus on feeding only the

> poor.

 

But ISKCON is clearly not focusing on feeding only the poor,

singling out only them. See, your own good self is the first

one who wouldn't do that by no mean. Jayadvaita Maharaja is

the second one. Bhakti Vikasa Swami the third. Mahavisnu Swami

the fourth... Keep counting... It is only a few enthusiasts

from FFL that in spite of all the odds and put-downs and condemnations

from some fellow Vaisnava godbrothers concentrate rather on poor

and hungry than wealthy.

 

But you know what. In the light of this arguing of yours, take

in consideration that one quoted by Jayadvaita Maharaja as

(implicitly so by his indication) an universal order of our

Acarya, Srila Prabhupada. To be followed by all and for ever:

"So far prasada distribution, . . . do not go to poor areas,

this is not our philosophy."

 

The Order. Clear and concize. Not to go to poor areas. Right.

We got it. But we may go to those areas that are not poor?

We aren't prohibited from that, are we? We may go to collegies

to distribute free prasadam to students* too. But not to the

poor in poor areas.

 

And you want to speak about discrimination and not singling out

the poor?

 

Thus they are singled out. Yes, if a poor comes to your temple,

he will be not refused (hopefully). But the poor people in the

poverty stricken areas will never manage to come to your temple.

Well, who cares. Their problem. Rule Offense Nr.3...

 

------

*

"Especially I want this school and college program.....

.... So try to attract these students with profuse prasadam

and nice philosophy and they will appreciate more and more."

(SPL to Lalita Kumara and Jambavati dasi, November 27th, 1971)

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

Haribol harisari,

 

Just reconnecting to the net after about a year and saw your name so

just wanted to offer my regards.

 

More later

 

Raghu

 

 

Prabhupada.Said (AT) pamho (DOT) net [Prabhupada.Said (AT) pamho (DOT) net] On

Behalf Of Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP

Friday, December 21, 2001 11:07 AM

Bhakti Vikasa Swami; Jayadvaita Swami; Balarama LOK

Cc: Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (NE-BBT); GBC Unmoderated; India (Continental

Committee) Open (Forum)

prasada to poor people

 

I haven't seen Jayadvaita M.'s comments so this is not a reponse

to

his text. It is simply to point out that prasadam distribution is, along

with sankirtan, the yajna for this age to save the fallen people. So

whether

that goes on under the flag of ISKCON, Hare Krishna Food for Life or

whatever, if the foodstuffs are indeed offered to the Lord and then

distributed, that is a transcendental activity aimed at the liberation

of

the conditioned soul. As such it should always be encouraged.

 

Here's a few quotes from Srila Prabhupada:

 

"So paratma-nistham. The sannyasi should worship the Deity in the temple

and

feed the poor. Poor does not mean that one who has no legs, no ears, or

no... Poor... Everyone who is spiritually poor, he should be given

prasadam.

By eating, prasade sarva-duhkhanam hanir asyopajayate. That is called

paramatma-nistham. Yajna. It is called yajna-sistasino santo mucyante

sarva-kilbisaih. It is not poor-feeding. It is distributing the

resultant

action of yajna. This worship is yajna. So yajna-sistasino... If you

feed

some men, not the so-called poor, everyone, then they'll be freed from

their

sinful activities. Yajna-sistasino santah mucyante sarva-kilbisaih.

Kilbisaih means sinful activities. Therefore prasada distribution.

Because

everyone is engaged simply duskrtinah, simply sinful activities. Eating

everything, doing everything, and they're life is full of sinful

activities.

Therefore to deliver them this prasada distribution is required."

>>> Ref. Sannyasa Initiation Lecture -- Calcutta, January 26, 1973

 

Everything is controlled by the demigods. Under the circumstances, in

this

age, in order to keep the balance of social peace and prosperity, all

intelligent men should execute the performance of sankirtana-yajna by

chanting the holy names Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/

Hare

Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. One should invite people, chant

Hare

Krsna, and then distribute prasada. This yajna will satisfy all the

demigods, and thus there will be peace and prosperity in the world.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.6.53

 

The whole target of life, therefore, is to please Lord Visnu. That is

yajna.

Any person who is in Krsna consciousness has dedicated his life for the

satisfaction of Krsna, the origin of all Visnu forms, and by offering

worship and prasada daily, he becomes the best performer of yajna.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.7.41

 

In this age of Kali, however, the great sacrifice is the performance of

sankirtana-yajna. Our Krsna consciousness movement is designed to teach

people (and to learn ourselves) the exact instruction of the Personality

of

Godhead. In this way we shall continuously perform the sankirtana-yajna

and

continuously chant the Hare Krsna mantra. Then at the end of our lives

we

shall certainly be able to remember Krsna, and our program of life will

be

successful. In this age, distribution of prasada has replaced

distribution

of money. No one has sufficient money to distribute, but if we

distribute

krsna-prasada as far as possible, this is more valuable than the

distribution of money.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.9.25

 

therefore, it is recommended in the sastras that people should perform

sankirtana-yajna. Any householder, regardless of his position, can

perform

this sankirtana-yajna without expenditure. All the family members can

sit

down together and simply clap their hands and chant the Hare Krsna

maha-mantra. Somehow or other, everyone can manage to perform such a

yajna

and distribute prasada to the people in general. That is quite

sufficient

for this age of Kali. The Krsna consciousness movement is based on this

principle: chant the Hare Krsna mantra at every moment, as much as

possible,

both inside and outside of the temples, and, as far as possible,

distribute

prasada. This process can be accelerated with the cooperation of state

administrators and those who are producing the country's wealth. Simply

by

liberal distribution of prasada and sankirtana, the whole world can

become

peaceful and prosperous.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 4.12.10

 

[sB 11.5.32] in this age, those who are intellectual offer yajna, or

perform

sacrifices, through the sankirtana movement. Everyone should join the

sankirtana movement, offering to the fire of this movement the oblations

of

his knowledge and riches. In our sankirtana movement, or Hare Krsna

movement, we offer sumptuous prasada to the Deity and later distribute

the

same prasada to the brahmanas, the Vaisnavas and then to the people in

general. Krsna's prasada is offered to the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, and

the

prasada of the brahmanas and Vaisnavas is offered to the general

populace.

This kind of sacrifice -- chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra and

distribution

of prasada -- is the most perfect and bona fide way of offering

sacrifice

for the pleasure of Yajna, or Visnu.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.14.17

 

 

Your humble servant,

Hari-sauri dasa

[Guest guest]

Here's the latest from the writing front. Thought you would like it.

 

 

Himalayan Christmas Gift

 

Written By Maddy Brinkman

Story By John 'Raghu' Giuffre

Raghu (AT) ROOPA (DOT) org

 

 

That time of year when dads get to spend money blew into town faster

this year. I had been up to the hills and cut a tree for the living

room. The usual stocking hung above the fireplace. In a few years, they

would become my son's acne-fertilizer. But not yet.

 

I carefully climbed the stairs without a sound. The house still smelled

of baking: pies, cookies, bread. I love the smell of fresh baking. There

is something very homely about baking. From the top of the stairs, the

living room looked ready. There was a satisfactory clutter of odd shapes

under the tree. Tomorrow there would be a space. But not yet.

 

Upstairs, I pulled myself up through a trapdoor into the attic. My son

had asked me to surprise him this year. No playstation. No bike.

Nothing. Just a smile when I asked him what he wanted: "Surprise me."

there was snow in the forecast. But none yet.

 

I rummaged around the attic. The dust made me sneeze and I cursed the

few sharp objects I bumped into. Where was that damn light switch? There

it is. Light. 40 watts. I looked at the cobwebbed storage space and my

hopes fled. After combing the malls and variety stores, what did I think

I was going to find in my attic. A broken pool stick? Some moth-eaten

ski pants? That would be a surprise. And not a good one. It was cold up

here. I kept expecting a rat to pounce. I'll just poke around and leave

quickly. It was time for bed.

 

I moved to the pool table stacked high with National Geo. mags. No

National Geo. this year. I crossed the tricycle and my leg caught,

launching me into the corner. I clutched at the old clothes rack and it

came down on top of me. I lay in the dust laughing. I have got to be as

clumsy as the abominable snowman. I turned over and looked around the

corner. The light barely made it this far. I pushed the clothes rack off

me and dusted off the old trunk.

 

It was an old battered trunk that had been my grandfathers. I had kept

it because I was too lazy to lug it down for a yard sale. I had opened

it years ago. It was full of books, papers, charts of stuff and some

orange cloaks. There were also some small nature paintings.

 

I ran a finger through the layer of dust on the trunk top. I opened it

and the hinges squeaked. Yup. Papers and a cloak. I picked up one of the

books. The pages had warped and yellowed with age. I tried to open it

and half of the pages fell out. They looked like diary pages, though the

ink was faded. I bent down for a better look. It was in German. I

realized it had been 3 years since I last spoke German. But here, I read

it in sheer disbelief.

 

 

 

November 27th 1789

 

We finally made it to the valley by sundown after a week of camping and

hiking. I feel I have made solid friendships with our pack-mules. The

monks here seem friendly. My interpreter told them I was here to map and

paint the area. Mapping pays the bills, but it is painting that makes

them worth paying. The monks understand. The Himalayas are beautiful and

need to be shared with other 'red faces.' I don't know what I think

about that. I told my interpreter to tell them they had no noses and

that their eyes were small but he discouraged this line of friendship.

One of the monks brought me some soup. He says it will help me

acclimatize. I'm looking forward to some sleep.

 

November 28th 1789

 

I managed to sleep in, in spite of the early prayers. Breakfast took

some getting use to. We sat on the floor and the food was spicy. I'll be

regretting it more later. I'm going to strike out this morning on my

own. I had not expected this much lush greenery this high up in the

mountains.

 

November 29th 1789

 

This place is incredible. The sheer vastness of the mountain range is

breathtaking. Humbling. The monks warned me not to shout while in the

gorges for fear of causing an avalanche. I was just trying out the echo.

I made some charcoal sketches of the local flora and fauna. Lots of deer

here. Surprisingly friendly. Last night I sat around a fire with the

local children for dinner. They all decided to take turns telling me

stories. I understood what they were telling me. Not exactly their words

of course but their meaning was lucid. Their pure excitement and joy of

life was clear and they communicated that. Joy is pretty universal. I

felt very peaceful, just sitting in the middle of their life. They had

let me be a part of them for the evening.

 

November 30th 1789

 

Just got up from a nap. I had been up early to watch the monks do their

morning services. The main shrine resounded like a beehive with their

murmurous chants. The monks are completely bald and wear dark orange

robes. Some robes are more faded than others. I have never seen such an

array of bald heads. Not all were perfectly round. Some were oval.

Others were square and there was the odd coconut protruding back head.

Happy faces, grave faces and yes, I caught a couple of sleeping faces.

The abbot wears a long fancy hat-looks almost Greek. I will see if I can

sketch him while I'm here.

 

I found out the name of the monk who brought me the soup. His name is

Sunta Ram. I can't seem to get rid of him. He is very curious and

shadows me trying to help me do things I am not trying to do. My

interpreter says 'Sunta' means saint. Ram was a very energetic saint.

 

December 1st 1789

 

Sunta Ram has decided I must learn to meditate and will not be

dissuaded. I couldn't get painting until late afternoon. We are

expecting a caravan to come up from Kullu with supplies. So far, I

haven't needed paint or charcoal but I do need some toilet cloth.

 

I have a cloth merchant that keeps me in supply. He makes me rolls of

cloth six inches wide and I take it on my excursions. The natives do

something with a mug of water to clean themselves when they go. But it

can't be good hygiene. As a result, my cloth merchant makes me toilet

cloth and thinks Germans are filthy.

 

December 7th 1789

 

Sunta Ram took me up to the waterfalls. The icy water falls two fifty

meters into a rock pool. The spray creates multiple rainbows. I sketched

the beginnings of a waterfall series I want to paint. I can't wait to

get home and show off some of these painting. I have never painted like

this before. Colors, life, beauty.

 

Sunta Ram continues his mission to teach me meditation. I had my

interpreter ask him to stop but it is useless. He has decided I need

discipline. As if sleeping on the floor and having diarrhea isn't

enough.

 

December 8th 1789

 

The caravan arrived. The children were fascinated with the supplies. I

lit up some gunpowder for them and they danced around with glee. One of

them ran off with my new spectacles and it took me an hour to get them

off him. I swear they like monkeys. Sunta Ram thought the whole thing

was hilarious and told me I should just stay up here forever. He thinks

I have a way with the kids. My interpreter told me Sunta Ram thinks that

when I am with the children I am not sad.

 

December 9th 1789

 

Woke up to a commotion in the monastery courtyard. The kids had gotten

into my supplies and taken my toilet cloth. It lined the courtyard like

festoons. A group of them were on the roof throwing them off into the

air to unravel. Some of it had been fashioned into tails for their

kites. They make some beautiful kites.

 

When I had been shouting out of my window at them for fifteen minutes,

Sunta Ram showed up. Everyone was laughing about it. I complained about

the inconvenience this was going to cause and he took me by the hand and

led me down to the courtyard. "Look how happy they are." He told me. And

something I took to mean that I had forgotten how to be happy. I made a

face and he slapped me on the back. He gathered the children in a corner

of the courtyard and gave them sticks. For the next hour the kids drove

around and raced each other on their new 'horses.' "You see?" Sunta Ram

said. "A child is happy inside. A stick is a horse and he is happy. When

you grow older, the happiness inside goes and we look everywhere outside

to find it. But it is not outside." He then repeated that I needed to

spend more time with the children.

 

December 18th 1789

 

I haven't been able to paint in a week. I haven't even been able to

sketch anything. It seems forced now. I have been feeling beautiful.

Looking outward to arbitrarily capture beauty seems pointless. What I

keep inside me is only what my mind can remember.

 

Sunta Ram and I took the children out for the day. We gave one boy a

tree and told him it was his kingdom. Rule well, we told him. Another

boy was given charge of the river. He promptly set up tax and charged

everyone a round stone to swim. Then the deer found their queen in one

of the youngest girls. She ruled and protected them from the enemy Tree

King.

 

Before we came home, all the children teamed up and threw me in the

river. It was freezing. They think I smell bad because they never see me

bathe. The water made me aware of how much of me there was alive to feel

that cold water everywhere. I was very wide-awake. The kids were rolling

on the ground at my indignation. I chased them all around for a bit and

then sat down laughing. A bit of cold, for all that fun was definitely

worth it.

 

Sunta Ram let me wear his orange-robe for the walk back to the

monastery. It keeps falling off. I have not developed my robe technique

I guess. I have been dubbed: "Suntlaal" for the walk home. 'Laal' means

red in their language. So, I am the red saint. I guess they don't have a

word for pink. I think they see my white skin as pink. It must be rather

funny sight. Their eyes were as wide as guavas when I took my wet shirt

off when I got out. The pink man has a pink torso -- how funny and

surprising.

 

December 19th 1789

 

I had a sleepy grin on my face as I lay in bed last night. I was

exhausted after the day running with the children. Exhausted and

content. The last shout of "Goodbed Suntlaal" floated through the

window. I tried to teach them how to say 'goodnight' and 'go to bed' in

English and they came up with their own version. They did the same thing

with 'see you tomorrow'. They wound me up with 'threemorrow',

'fourmorrow', "see you fivemorrow." It was silly but I liked it.

 

They were helping me. I'm feeling free and happy, unexplainably. They

need so little. I realized that back in Germany we sometimes forget that

in order for our children to be happy we just have to get out of the way

and let them be kids.

 

December 24th 1789

 

I haven't seen the children today. I have been down in the shrine room

with Sunta Ram and the other monks making kites for the children.

Tomorrow is a festival. We will be honoring a saint. Sunta Ram said his

name is Isa. According to legend, a young saint came hundreds of years

ago from the west. He would go from village to village telling stories

to children. He was always surrounded by children. I can see why.

 

December 25th 1789

 

Today was one of the happiest and saddest day of my life. In the

morning, the monks insisted I put on one of their dark orange robes. We

then took the children out to the forest to feed the deer. While we were

out there, the little girl who was queen of the deer pointed at the

abbot's hat, pointed at me, and then giggled. I snuck up, grabbed the

abbot's hat, put it on, and danced a little jig. The little girl was

almost choking she was laughing so much. It is a good thing too because

I later found out that it was very disrespectful of me. Initially the

monks had tried to look outraged but the girl laughed so much that even

the abbot broke into laughter. I had only meant a bit of mischief but

custom prohibited the abbot from wearing the hat again. I was told I

could keep it.

 

When we got back, we passed out the kites we had made for them.

Instantly the sky was alive with forty-five odd kites. I was surrounded

by shrieks of glee and shiny eyes. This is heaven.

 

Then an old woman came out of the monastery. I didn't even realize that

she must have been the only woman there. She walked over to one of the

younger boys and led him back into the monastery. All the children and

turned. They watched. The kites tangled and fell. No one spoke. And I

realized with a shock something that was obvious but had not struck me

before. I turned to Sunta Ram and asked about the other boys in a

whisper. "No. They don't have family. That is why they stay here. That

is why we make kites every year. And they fly." Yes they fly.

 

And I knew I had to go. I had to go home to Germany. There are so many

children. So many children who need to fly.

 

 

December 25th 1790

 

After a year of gathering and making toys, I was able to spread festive

cheer to the children of Hamburg. It is invigorating to bring them

something. I have been wearing Sunta Ram's orange robes and the abbot's

hat. The children love it although their parents might be a little

spooked. I tell them my name is Nicholas. Sunta Nicholas. I tell them I

come from way up in the Himalayas where it is very cold. I tell them of

the carefree children and the deer and the rainbows and the river and

the kites. And I tell them the toys are sent by all the monks who work

to make them. And I promise to bring them more presents next year if

they are well behaved. Some of the parents tell them to stay away from

me. Next year I may have to sneak their gifts to them. In honor of the

young saint Isa and Jesus, the kids must feel joy. They must all fly.

Fly like kites.

 

 

I closed, put down the diary pages and picked up the orange robe. Under

it lay a dusty painting of a little girl laughing uncontrollably. The

painting was signed 'Klaus.' "He's Santa?! We're related to Santa

Klaus?!" I had a surprise for Junior all right. Tomorrow was going to be

Christmas proper.

 

Other writings by Raghu

www.ROOPA.org

C March 2001

[Guest guest]

If we open a branch in Madras, actually there are so many poor children

there. Spiritual education and food, that is proper. Simply supplying food

is nonsense. Spiritual education means just to inject in their ears about

our philosophy, externally they chant beads, wear tilak, without any

discrimination of Hindu or Muslim or anything.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Gurudasa -- Honolulu 13 May, 1972

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

 

PAMHO,

 

When Srila Prabhupad ji went to the west.He supplied rasgullas to the poor

on the street.I mean suffering Hippies and they became devotees.

What made them attracted to Krishna conciousness.?The big answer is

"Prasadam to the poor".

 

 

your servant

Mukta purusa das.

[Guest guest]

>If we open a branch in Madras, actually there are so many poor children

>there. Spiritual education and food, that is proper. Simply supplying food

>is nonsense.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Gurudasa -- Honolulu 13 May, 1972

 

And what about giving Krishna Himself to people in the form of prasadam (as

opposed to food). This purifies their heart from material contamination and

puts them onto the path of devotional service.

 

It seems clear if you read the entire letter of Srila Prabhupada's you cite

above that he is referring to a U.S. Food Relief program ran through the

government. Such programs that only offer food are nonsense, but would you

say the same about devotees distributing Krishna to people in the forms of

prasadam and kirtan?

 

It would be nice if people read the entire letters they quote and take the

context into consideration before using them as "evidence". Sometimes in the

hurry to find support from Prabhupada we actually change Prabhupada's

statements to suit our arguments. Here is the rest of the letter which is

relevant to note:

 

 

Letter to: Gurudasa

--

Honolulu

13 May, 1972

 

Vrindaban

 

My dear Gurudasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter

dated May 5, 1972, and I have noted the contents. You can accept Suri's

plan, it is very nice, so you execute it perfectly. That will be the

grandest temple in Vrindaban. May be a little costly, but if you can collect

Rs. 25,000 per month and also Gargamuni can collect Rs. 25,000 per month,

then it can be done nicely.

In the Hindi BTG there are so many mistakes, spelling, grammar, and some

places the philosophy is faulty with some other ideas mixed in; the printing

is shabby, the second page is almost invisible. So this has to be improved

somehow or other. Dr. Kapoor has remarked exactly. So you may inform

Ksirodakasayi, and you try to help him for improving Hindi BTG.

You must construct something wonderful. Otherwise, it will be a discredit

to you American boys. That will exalt the position of America in India. And

in every temple food distribution must go on profusely with American food

supplies. Have the Americans given us the food supplies, is there any

tangible donation? Or is it simply promises? If we can supply some proof

they have given us such and such amount of foodstuffs, some document, that

will help us in all parts of the world as propaganda and for approaching

your country's government in other places for supplying us. So if you have

got such document, kindly send me one copy.

If we open a branch in Madras, actually there are so many poor children

there. Spiritual education and food, that is proper. Simply supplying food

is nonsense. Spiritual education means just to inject in their ears about

our philosophy, externally they chant beads, wear tilak, without any

discrimination of Hindu or Muslim or anything.

So I am very much encouraged by your letters, and I am confident I have

entrusted this Vrindaban project, which is one of the most important of our

this ISKCON, to the right persons, namely, yourself, your good wife, Yamuna

devi, and Ksirodakasayi Prabhu. So kindly offer the others my blessings.

Hoping this meets you all in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[Guest guest]

I also recall Srila Prabhupada teeling us that people who are hungry will not

be able to chant so we should feed them first. This was in Mayapur during

the Banagla Desh War.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> > The danger Srila

> > Prabhupada saw of prasada distribution being done only to the poor is that

> > i might then be taken by the givers as well as the recipients as some kind

> > of mundane altruism.

> This is the danger I see, especially when potential donors are approached in

> such a manner: "Help the starving" -- "Every minute x children die of

> hunger" -- etc. If the emphasis is put only on bodily needs, even our own

> devotees tend to get in such consciousness, and the whole endeavor becomes

> increasingly mundane.

This is what I suggested too; because such mundane discriminations

tend to perpetuate the bodily concept of life that we're already inclined

for, then instead of solving the problem (once and for all), we compound it.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

> This is what I suggested too; because such mundane discriminations

> tend to perpetuate the bodily concept of life that we're already inclined

> for, then instead of solving the problem (once and for all), we compound

> it.

 

What is the practical use of such hypothetically suggested

"problem" that is of no real significance, especially when

compared to the enormousness of factual both spiritual and

material benefit that the millions of people would be otherwise

deprived from?

 

Why don't you try? Go out and ask the potential donors to give

you the money that you would use for purchasing the food, cooking

it and after offering to God as the sacrifice, you would

distribute it freely to whomever the donor considers it should

be given -- to the distressed hungry people or perhaps to those

who are materially well established. Or indiscriminately.. Then

just do as the donor wants. It is only honest to do up to the will

and the satisfaction of the donor, as Srila Prabhupada has clearly

wanted from the devotees to be done so. And this will have just

nothing to do with your allegedly bodily concept of life, or

something that would be preventing you to go back home to Godhead.

Just be honest and personal, respecting the desire of the donor,

do not cheat him. Yes, you have an open opportunity to get on the

case of the donor for _his_ being in the bodily concept, for _his_

discriminating. But I suggest you better do not upset him unnecessarily.

 

Let's try to understand that people, when they give you their

most precious money, they give it in good trust that it will go

there where they consider to be meant for. They do not like

to be fooled, nor that is what devotees should do to them in

the name of "purity".

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

At 09:28 PM 12/28/01 +0100, Mahanidhi (das) (S) wrote:

>Let's try to understand that people, when they give you their

>most precious money, they give it in good trust that it will go

>there where they consider to be meant for. They do not like

>to be fooled, nor that is what devotees should do to them in

>the name of "purity".

 

Excellent point. Thank you! Honesty is sometimes underused in ISKCON.

Sometimes I wish it would be included in our vows.

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Maria Ekstrand wrote:

(re: honesty)

> Sometimes I wish it would be included in our vows.

It is one one of the four legs of the bull of religion.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

> At 04:34 PM 12/28/01 -0800, M. Tandy wrote:

> > It is one one of the four legs of the bull of religion.

> >

> > MDd

>

> True, but why is it that devotees often seem leg-less?

> Madhu

>

 

Because bulls have four legs, and devotees (usually) have two legs.

 

ys. KKdas (HDG)

 

p.s. hahahahaaaa

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus!

I have been reading tho ongoing debate on feeding the

hungry and/or poor people. Many people have used Prabhupad's instuctions to

prove both sides of their respective arguements. If Prabhupad was present we

could go and ask him. But in his absence we can only depend either on his

writings or his "authorized" representatives which may be any and all of the

followings:

1) The "living gurus" - If these personalities are empowered ,their ruling

shoud be as good as that of Prabhupad. I have not read any such ruling yet.

Why are they silent? Why don't one of them come forward and issue a definite

instruction? Could it be that no one will obey their ruling? Or maybe they

feel that they have no authority ?

2) The GBC - Thought to be as good as Prabupad. Have it issued a paper on

the matter? No!

In the absence of this , people in Iskcon are doing whatever they feel is

"convenient". It is easy to collect money ,get free food on one pretaxt or

other and feed people. These hungry people appreciate the feeders but

nothing significant has been achieved. If one was to spend same amount of

time and energy in spritual preaching the results would be different. But

that would require that a person who is to preach has first to practice

those principals himself.In Iskcon it has become a fashion to parroting

words of wisdom without trying to emulate them in one's own life.

What Prabhupad said and did is very clear - " Become Krishna Conscious and

distribute this knowledge to others." As long as we follow both thse

instructions we are not following him. We may quote him ad infinitum but the

underlying theme is KC.

If we just collect money and food for just feeding it will be a mundane

activity but if also actively tell them about KC then it becomes spiritual.

Also the distributors have to follow KC themselves. We have to stop judging

one's advance in KC by how much money one has collected,or how many books

one has distributed or how many followers one has. Don't you think that all

these standards are mundane? And as such induce such a consciousness in

people. As such many temples have become 'Food Distibution Centers'.

The distinction of rich and poor does not exist. Rich people don't come to

eat free food anyway. It is only the poor people. Persons with money pay and

hence it is not free to them.Whenever we talt about "free" food we only

attract poor and hence hungry people.

Be In KC and your actions will be OK.

Hare Krishna!

Jagdish

 

"M. Tandy" <mpt@u.washington.edu>

"Bhakti Vikasa Swami" <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Balarama LOK"

<Balarama.LOK (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "GBC Unmoderated" <GBC.Unmoderated (AT) pamho (DOT) net>;

"India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Cc: "Jayadvaita Swami" <Jayadvaita.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Hari Sauri (das)

ACBSP" <Hari.Sauri.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (NE-BBT)"

<Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Friday, December 28, 2001 10:21 AM

Re: prasada to poor people

 

 

> On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> > > The danger Srila

> > > Prabhupada saw of prasada distribution being done only to the poor is

that

> > > i might then be taken by the givers as well as the recipients as some

kind

> > > of mundane altruism.

> > This is the danger I see, especially when potential donors are

approached in

> > such a manner: "Help the starving" -- "Every minute x children die of

> > hunger" -- etc. If the emphasis is put only on bodily needs, even our

own

> > devotees tend to get in such consciousness, and the whole endeavor

becomes

> > increasingly mundane.

> This is what I suggested too; because such mundane discriminations

> tend to perpetuate the bodily concept of life that we're already inclined

> for, then instead of solving the problem (once and for all), we compound

it.

>

> MDd

>