Guest guest Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Hare Krishna Lilananda Prabhu, _/\o_ > Does anyone know exactly what Srila Prabhupada said about traveling on > Thursdays? I searched the Vedabase but could not find specific > information. Here are few quotes: Prabhupäda: So Thursday, before afternoon, we shall start. (Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore) Tamäla Kåñëa: Something. Anyway, before we leave I’m going to speak with Bhagatji. Bhagatji is the one who gave the gold and pearls to Vanamali. So I think Bhagatji will be able to recover it. We’ll leave this medicine with Bhagatji, and he can give the medicine to Vanamali and take the money. So Smara-hari will be leaving today, just now. And we’ve already spoken with Delhi, and they’re already going to purchase the airline tickets. Either we will leave Wednesday... Today is Monday. Either we will leave Wednesday or we will leave Friday. We’re not going to travel on Thursday. And they’ve already informed Calcutta and Mäyäpura. Prabhupäda: Who will go with me? (Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Våndävana) Tamäla Kåñëa mentioned that when he had told the doctor that Çréla Prabhupäda was trying to cooperate, the doctor had said Çréla Prabhupäda's only compromise was to wait until Friday instead of Thursday before traveling. Çréla Prabhupäda gave a little laugh and said, “And then I went even earlier—Tuesday. Supercompromise. I could understand when he wanted blood that he would begin his allopathic treatments." (SPL 53: Krishna's Great Soldier) When we told the doctor that Prabhupäda was trying to cooperate, he said that Prabhupäda’s big compromise was agreeing to go on Friday instead of Thursday. Çréla Prabhupäda laughed and said, “Then I went Tuesday. Super compromise! I could understand that when he wanted blood, he would begin his allopathic treatments.” (TKG's Diary, Prabhupada's Final Days, September 14, 1977) Prabhupäda called for Saccidänanda and discussed the kaviräja and his beginning to charge exorbitantly. Prabhupäda decided to call for a Våndävana doctor in Loi Bazaar, who, with his son, practiced allopathy. When Çréla Prabhupäda realized it was Thursday afternoon, he said to wait until tomorrow to call them. (TKG's Diary, Prabhupada's Final Days, October 6, 1977) >From "Muhurta Timing" article for www.shyamasundaradasa.com: Text 18806 Urmila (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (ISKCON School) 28-Jul-94 21:34 EDT travel --------------------------- In Hari Sauri's diary, I read how Prabhupada would rarely travel on Thursday between 4:30 and 7:30 PM because he said it was an inauspicious time for travel. Over the years, I have heard many versions of this as well as many versions of how to circumvent it, e.g. put your suitcases outside the door on Wednesday. Looking through the Prabhupada database, I find no mention of not traveling on Thursday afternoon. (Some devotees also say it's not good to travel on Ekadasi.) Question: Is this a general principle or something Prabhupada did because of personal astrological considerations? -------------- Comments: Text 19445 by LINK: Brahmananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Bhaktivedanta Archives) Text 19445 Brahmananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Bhaktivedanta Archives) 30-Jul-94 travel --------------------------- Srila Prabhupada always avoided commencing a journey on a Thursday, especially in the early afternoon. The story about packing the bags and moving them from the room to the outer hallway - it was done by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, so it was not a thing that pertained to Srila Prabhupada individually. Therefore, it must apply for all devotees. For myself I can tell you when I have commenced a journey in the Thursday afternoon, it resulted in near disaster several times. -------------- Text 19801 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 01-Aug-94 travel and Muhurta --------------------------- Mother Urmila requests information about why Srila Prabhupada didn't travel on Thursday afternoon. And asks: "Is this a general principle or something Prabhupada did because of personal astrological considerations?" My understanding is that he learned this habit from his association with his own guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta who was a renowned astrologer in his purva-asrama. The reason is that on Thursday afternoon the Rahukalam - the time of Rahu - becomes prominent. (This is mentioned in the philosophy paper.) The method of calculating when the Rahukalam will take place is as follows. First you must know when the sun rises for each day of the week. Then for each day the Rahukalam starts at a different time after sunrise and lasts for 90 minutes. The start times of the Rahukalam for different weekdays are: Sunday 10.5 hours after sunrise Monday 1.5 " Tuesday 9 " Wednesday 6 " Thursday 7.5 " Friday 4.5 " Saturday 3 " If the Sun were to rise at 6:00 AM then the Rahukalam on Thursday would correspond to 1:30-3:00 PM. [From Muhurta by B.V. Raman pg 201.] Needless to say the sun rises at various times at different seasons and at different latitudes. We also see that Rahukalam is not on Thursday only. If one doesn't have the facility to calculate the exact planetary positions at the time of a journey then the above calculation would serve as a ready reckoner. But it should be stressed that this is really only for layman. >From astrological texts it is noted that there are numerous flaws which could severely afflict a time for travel. This is especially significant in the case of long or important journeys. No time is perfect. What to do? What is done is to try as best as possible to choose a time free of as many flaws as possible and to strengthen the chart of travel by strengthening the position of the lagna and the Moon. Thus if Jupiter is in the lagna at the start of travel it greatly relieves the affliction. Texts on Muhurta give both evil combinations and ones that cancel. For example one should never travel if Mars is in the 8th, or if the 8th is otherwise afflicted. The 8th is the house of death and Mars there would indicate accidents. Considering that in the USA alone there are about 50,000 people killed on the road every year (more than the total US dead in the Vietnam war!) it would be wise to check out the time of travel before you literally risk your life by traveling at "break-neck speed" as Prabhupada said. Choosing a good Muhurta is a lot more difficult than most people think for the very reasons stated above. Good times are just not that easy to get. For example as mentioned above about Jupiter in Lagna and Mars in the 8th. Better to have Mars somewhere else than Guru in lagna. It may be that you have a combination with Guru in lagna and Mars in the 8th. Avoid Mars in the 8th at all costs. Strengthen the lagna in other ways such as having Venus in lagna etc. Regarding: "Over the years, I have heard many versions of this as well as many versions of how to circumvent it, e.g. put your suitcases outside the door on Wednesday." I have never heard of this. What I heard was that Bhaktisiddhanta, in order to avoid traveling on ekadasi, would pack his bags and leave them outside on the day before so that it would be considered that the journey had already started. >From a strictly astrological view the ekadasi tithi is not in itself unfavorable for travel. In fact it is considered very good. But as Vaisnavas we prefer to spend ekadasi doing more service and thinking of Krsna etc. which is hampered by travel. There are different restrictions for direction of travel on certain days. For example: do not travel towards the east on Sunday or Monday. But if the journey starts after 8 ghatis then it is okay (provided other considerations are good). [1 ghati = 24 minutes. Ghatis are counted from the moment of sunrise.] Under no circumstance should a journey commence if the Moon is in the naksatra Bharani or Krttika. ys shyama Text 19802 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 01-Aug-94 01:17 EDT Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das) [15] Muhurta --------------------------- The question by Mother Urmila brings to mind a recent question put to me by some devotees about the auspicious time for doing a ground breaking for a temple. The same reasoning could apply to installing deities or getting married. It was proposed that an important project be started and that the day chosen was Balarama's appearance day (I think). The grounds for doing so are stated below: "Many devotees feel that because it celebrates an auspicious day it is therefore good for anything." My response was something like this: To do something on the grounds that it is the same as the day celebrating the anniversary of the appearance day of Krsna, Nrsimhadeva, Rama, Radha, Balarama, Srila Prabhupada, etc. is a total misunderstanding of astrology and the signification of the day. It is very simplistic to think that because it is Janmastami then we can start any project on that day. On the actual day >>and time<< that Sri Krsna appeared in 3227 BC the planets were aligned in a unique and auspicious manner which have yet to be duplicated. And they will not be duplicated again until Krsna appears in the next day of Lord Brahma, which is a very long time from now. Janmastami day celebrates the appearance day of Lord Krsna, and we especially fast and do special prayers to glorify and worship Krsna on that day. It commemorates His appearance but it is not of the same potency as the day He actually appeared. There is great spiritual benefit mentioned in the scriptures to worship Sri Krsna on this day - but it is not identical with His actual appearance day. The proof of this is very simple. We simply note that Lord Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in all His glory, doesn't appear yearly in Mathura on that day. Why? Because the astrological configurations don't warrant such an appearance. (Don't forget astrology is a language of symptoms, it doesn't cause anything - it just describes things and events.) In the same way you don't appear every year on your birthday. Millions of entities are born on every holy day every year. But we don't notice new avataras roaming around (except of the bogus variety). Thousands upon thousands of persons are born every second, yet none of them are the personality of Godhead. This indicates that the original day that Sri Krsna, Rama, Nrsimha, etc. appeared is much different from the day on which their appearance is celebrated. In one sense you could say that it is non-different. But from a practical view it is very different. So to choose an auspicious time simply on the basis that it is the appearance day of Sri Mahaprabhu or Sri Balarama is not something an intelligent person should do. Probably the best thing to do on those days is to worship the appropriate deity unless there are astrologically compelling reasons to do otherwise. I clearly remember how in 1981 a godbrother was married. The day chosen was Sri Nrsimha-caturdasi, at sunset! What could be more auspicious for a wedding, it was thought. I cringed, but no one was going to listen to me. It was a horrible time to get married. I proved to be right. They had a child and divorced within 5 years. Another ISKCON tragedy. The day itself may have had some good time to choose for a marriage except that any caturdasi tithi is considered evil for marriage. But other combinations may have cancelled the caturdasi aspect. However under no circumstances should anyone be married at sunset. It is a prime dictum that for the time of marriage the 7th house must be vacant of any planet. But at the time of sunset, by definition, the sun is in the seventh, a most unwelcome place in a marriage chart. Maybe for ordinary things a person can be slack. But when it comes to doing something very important or starting a project costing hundreds of thousands of dollars it would behoove the responsible parties to get the very best time possible. It would be a great shame to waste so much money, time and effort because of oversimplistic thinking, or previous bad experience with a questionable astrologer. It is not materialistic to think about choosing the best time available to start a temple. As devotees, we only want the best for the Lord. The best fruits and vegetables, best cloth, the best of everything. Why not the best time, especially when the time is so important? The importance of time can not be overestimated. I hope to soon present some research findings about the relationship between Krsna, Time and Astrology. YS Shyamasundara Dasa -------------- Text 20929 Hari Sauri (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua, FL)" 02-Aug-94 travel and Muhurta --------------------------- Although I found the information about Rahukalam hours interesting, they don't seem to align with Srila Prabhupada's observance of inauspicious times to travel. You have mentioned Thursdays as being between 1:30 - 3:00 PM but Srila Prabhupada told us the time he wouldn't travel was between 4:30 - 7:00 PM. When we were in Madras and scheduled to fly back to Bombay at 7:30 PM Prabhupada wouldn't do it. He wanted to fly the next morning but because of some prior commitments which couldn't be cancelled he relented and traveled on the Thursday - but at 10 PM, the very last flight of the day. I always regret not having asked him what the specific reasons were behind his "no travel on Thursday afternoon" rule. That was my chance but I blew it. -------------- Text 21022 Brahmananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Bhaktivedanta Archives) 03-Aug-94 16:08 EDT travel --------------------------- Recently I had an auto accident while traveling across the country. I left Los Angeles on Thursday, June 2nd, at about 3:00 PM. I had so many reasons why I had to leave at that time, but even one devotee warned me not to go at that time. The next day at 12 noon in Yuma, AZ I had the accident, totaling my vehicle, with minor injury, and spoiling all my distribution programs for the entire summer. Should I have not left at that inauspicious time? -------------- Text 21763 Urmila (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (ISKCON School) 02-Aug-94 22:38 EDT travel --------------------------- Sorry, Shyamasundara prabhu, but your answer raised more questions. If the influence of Rahu is there every day, why is Thursday particularly troublesome? It would seem, to my meager intelligence, that because Thursday is Jupiter's day, that the opposite would be true. Also, Hari Sauri writes that Prabhupada would avoid travel between 4:30-7:30 PM which is later than the times you list. Also, it seems that these calculations for travel only apply to the start of a journey. Is that correct? Text 21308 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 04-Aug-94 07:12 EDT Travel and Muhurta --------------------------- The time of the Rahukalam is flexible and is linked to the time of sunrise, so conceivably the reason that Prabhupada traveled later was because the sun rose later that day. Another reason could be that it had nothing at all to do with Rahukalam but some other consideration. Also it is possible that in the Utkal (Bengal-Orissa) region they may have some different rule for calculating the Rahukalam. There are occasional regional differences in astrology. Regarding marriage: if you are legally married before the fire sacrifice then it is the time of the legal marriage that is significant. Not the fire sacrifice. There are many forms of marriage recognized in the Vedas, not all require a fire sacrifice. For example Gandharva Vivaha, the simple exchange of garlands, requires no fire. In any case, if after a ceremony, civil or otherwise, a man and woman begin co-habitating and are recognized by society as being married then that is the beginning of their marriage. And that is the time to be considered. It was also asked: "If the influence of Rahu is there every day, why is Thursday particularly troublesome?" As I pointed out it may have nothing to do with Rahukalam at all because in Bengal they have their own system of calculating such things. Even if it is caused because of Rahu then Thursday being ruled by Jupiter is not immune. In fact the conjunction of Jupiter and Rahu in a chart goes by the name of Guru-Candala Yoga and it often spoils the good qualities of Jupiter. "Also, it seems that these calculations for travel only apply to the start of a journey. Is that correct?" Yes. Your servant Shyamasundara Dasa -------------- Text 21488 Urmila (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (ISKCON School) 04-Aug-94 travel --------------------------- When ISKCON organizations plan meetings, we should *not* schedule them for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This forces devotees, especially those who are flying, to start their journey on a Thursday afternoon. I personally had a tragedy occur when I started on a Thursday afternoon for such a meeting. Why can't we meet on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, or Saturday, Sunday, and Monday? Should we be less careful than Prabhupada? Text 21885 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 05-Aug-94 23:27 EDT Brahmananda's accident --------------------------- Hare Krsna! Sorry to hear about your accident in the desert. Glad to hear that only the vehicle was badly damaged. We wouldn't want to part with you just yet. On June 2, at 3:00 PM in Los Angeles the following planetary positions prevailed: Lagna 17VI06 Sun 18TA22 Moon 07PI59 Mars 13AR42 Mercury 11GE01 Jupiter R 12LI16 Venus 21GE36 Saturn 18AQ19 Rahu 29LI57 Ketu 29AR57 This chart is indeed not auspicious for travel. We note that Mars AND Ketu are in the 8th and that the Moon is in a Papi-kartari Yoga (malefics on both sides). Also the Lagna is the object of a Lagna-adhi-yoga but by malefic planets rather than benefics. What really saved you was the strength of Mercury ruler of the lagna. You also broke a cardinal rule of travel: if someone warns you not to travel you should take it as an omen and delay your trip. Some years ago a similar event happened to me. I had just borrowed Naveen Krsna's new car to do some business in Dallas. Just as I was about to pull away from the driveway he yelled at me to stop, then he came up to me and admonished me not to get in an accident. I was very mentally distressed at the time and didn't recognize the clear warnings from Supersoul. [it is standard practice that if somebody stops you in trip that you should stop or at least delay your departure. If you are stopped 3 times then you shouldn't leave.] I left and about ten minutes later I was involved in a very serious accident caused by adverse weather. I totaled the vehicle and severely injured my neck. I still suffer from the injuries. On June 21 I was leaving Miami and starting a trip to Canada. I had planned to leave early but for various reasons my trip was delayed to the afternoon. When I looked at the chart I also got Virgo rising with Mars and Ketu in the 8th. I was not happy and thought that this would be a classical combination for an accident. Just then Rasabihari, the wife of Mahabuddhi, with whom I was staying, came in to my room. She had just got off work from the hospital and gave me a big handful of medical supplies - bandages, antiseptic sponges, etc. The lights immediately flashed in my mind; I had just been thinking that this was not a good time to travel because of possible accidents and here she comes giving me items that also indicate accidents and injuries i.e. medical supplies. I immediately cancelled my trip and left the next day. YS Shyamasundara Dasa Text 22259 Bhanu Swami (Madras) 07-Aug-94 marriage times --------------------------- If Prabhupada was observing late Thursday afternoon, it seems it was Bar Bela, not Rahukalam. Bar Bela, Kala Bela and Ratri Bela are mentioned in the Navadvipa Panjika, so they are common knowledge in Bengal. Panjika notes that these times are bad for travel, causing death. Where the sastric source is I don't know. Rahukala is common is South India. If we combine the timings of Rahukala, Bar Bela and Kala Bela, we see that all of Thursday afternoon becomes bad. As well Sunday and Friday mornings and Tuesday early afternoon become bad. So why didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta follow all of these timings? Maybe Thursday was obvious because of the long period of possible dangers. Note also that Mars hora will also fall at 2 PM on Thursday, so that would be an added consideration. Rahukalam Sunday 4:30 PM Monday 7:30 AM Tuesday 3:00 PM Wednesday 12 Noon Thursday 1:30 PM Friday 10:30 AM Saturday 9:00 AM Bar Bela Sunday 10:30 Noon Monday 3:00 PM Tuesday 7:30 AM Wednesday 12:00 Noon Thursday 4:30 Friday 9:00 AM Saturday 1:30 PM Kala Bela all three combined: Sunday 12:00 10:30 - 1:30 Monday 7:30 Tuesday 1:30 1:30 - 4:30 Wednesday 9:00 Thursday 3:00 PM 1:30 - 6:00 Friday 10:30 9:00 - 12:00 Saturday: 6 AM and 4:30 PM These tithis are bad for travel according to the panjika: tithis caturthi, sasthi, astami, navami, dvadasi, caturdasi, purnima amavasya and sukla pratipat. -------------- Text 22658 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 07-Aug-94 Bar Bela --------------------------- I suspected that these local Bengali timings of Bar Bela [Var Vela], Kala Bela [Kala Vela], and Ratri Bela, had something to do with it. But I have never had an explanation of how these velas are derived or defined even though I spent 2 years in Calcutta studying astrology. They are certainly not found in classical texts. Of course, this doesn't mean that they are not effective, only temporarily unexplained. >From the names, they seem to be related to the Kala Velas mentioned in Parasara Hora Sastra. But I am traveling and have no way of checking the reference. ys shyama Text 24018 Shyamasundara (Dasa) ACBSP (Astrologer) 10-Aug-94 travel etc. --------------------------- One more point that I would like to mention is that although there are all these Rahukalams, Bar Bela, Kala Bela, etc. these can be neutralized if at the time of departure the lagna is strong, and planets well placed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
