denying the guru's order

[Guest guest]

>

> > If there was a case that Dhruva rejected Narada's instructions

> after

> > initiation, then I would agree that Dhruva is an example of

> denying

> > the guru's order. Narada certainly was a guru, when he first spoke

> to

> > Dhruva, but he wasn't Dhruva's guru.

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> Thank you for pointing out the important point that surrender is

> voluntary and cannot be legislated or enforced.

>

> I would like to ask a question if that is okay. I was wondering

> about

> Dhruva Maharaj's performing devotional service. At first he went to

> the

> forest, completely determined to see the Supreme Lord, by the

> inspiration

> of his mother Sunitha. Was he already aware of devotional service

> because

> of being raised as a King's son?

 

>From the beginning of life means... Actually, our life begins at the age

of five years. According to Canakya Pandita’s niti, it is said that the

boys, the children, should be given complete freedom to do anything he

likes up to five years, not more than that. Lalayet panca-varsani: “Up to

five years a child should be given all freedom.” Never mind however

miscreant he may be. But from five years to fifteen years—that means a

period of ten years—tadayet. Lalayet panca-varsani tadayet dasa-varsani:

“You should give all freedom to your child for five years, and then, next

ten years, you should be very strict, very strict, so that the child may

be very much afraid. And as soon as he attains sixteen years of age, then

you should treat him like friend, not, I mean to say, so strictly.” These

are the moral instruction by Canakya Pandita.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.1, Pandal Lecture

--

Bombay, January 12, 1973

It seems from this statement that Druva may not have previously been

educated about devotional service in any formal manner. If his father

was still pampering him and his brother, as we see from the story, it

would seem that there had not been the introduction of the instructing

stage. However, it is possible that the boy Druva had received some if

not much instruction, since his father was somewhat negligent of him when

he attempted to sit on his lap, which may indicate that he was in the

second stage spoken of by Chanakya.

> And how does Lord Krishna consider

> devotional service to Him, before one meets his initiating spiritual

> master?

C.C. Madhya-lila 15.108

diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare

jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare

SYNONYMS

diksa -- initiation; purascarya -- activities before initiation; vidhi --

regulative principles; apeksa -- reliance on; na -- not; kare -- does;

jihva -- the tongue; sparse -- by touching; a-candala -- even the lowest

of men, the candala; sabare -- everyone; uddhare -- delivers.

TRANSLATION

"One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities

required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with

his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.

 

Read the purport for further details

 

 

> Sunitha was his first spiritual guide, but it was not formal

> initiation. Can a person advance within devotional service without an

> initiating guru, but with instructions from a siksha guru?

 

If it were not true that one could advance in devotional service without

formal initiation, then there would be no use of preaching or engaging

people in ajnata-sukriti (pious activities on the spiritual platform

which are unknown to the performer), since no one could advance from the

stage of sraddha (initial faith) to later stages such as sadhu sanga

(saintly association), and bhajana-kriya (initiation), without being

initiated (which is the third stage of advancement). However, one should

have diksa in order to pass through anarta-nivriti (removal of the dirty

things in the heart) and all subsequent stages leading up to prema (pure

love of godhead).

 

ys,

 

Bhavasindhu dasa

______________

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[Guest guest]

>

> > If there was a case that Dhruva rejected Narada's instructions

> after

> > initiation, then I would agree that Dhruva is an example of

> denying

> > the guru's order. Narada certainly was a guru, when he first spoke

> to

> > Dhruva, but he wasn't Dhruva's guru.

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> Thank you for pointing out the important point that surrender is

> voluntary and cannot be legislated or enforced.

>

> I would like to ask a question if that is okay. I was wondering

> about

> Dhruva Maharaj's performing devotional service. At first he went to

> the

> forest, completely determined to see the Supreme Lord, by the

> inspiration

> of his mother Sunitha. Was he already aware of devotional service

> because

> of being raised as a King's son?

 

>From the beginning of life means... Actually, our life begins at the age

of five years. According to Canakya Pandita’s niti, it is said that the

boys, the children, should be given complete freedom to do anything he

likes up to five years, not more than that. Lalayet panca-varsani: “Up to

five years a child should be given all freedom.” Never mind however

miscreant he may be. But from five years to fifteen years—that means a

period of ten years—tadayet. Lalayet panca-varsani tadayet dasa-varsani:

“You should give all freedom to your child for five years, and then, next

ten years, you should be very strict, very strict, so that the child may

be very much afraid. And as soon as he attains sixteen years of age, then

you should treat him like friend, not, I mean to say, so strictly.” These

are the moral instruction by Canakya Pandita.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.1, Pandal Lecture

--

Bombay, January 12, 1973

It seems from this statement that Druva may not have previously been

educated about devotional service in any formal manner. If his father

was still pampering him and his brother, as we see from the story, it

would seem that there had not been the introduction of the instructing

stage. However, it is possible that the boy Druva had received some if

not much instruction, since his father was somewhat negligent of him when

he attempted to sit on his lap, which may indicate that he was in the

second stage spoken of by Chanakya.

> And how does Lord Krishna consider

> devotional service to Him, before one meets his initiating spiritual

> master?

C.C. Madhya-lila 15.108

diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare

jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare

SYNONYMS

diksa -- initiation; purascarya -- activities before initiation; vidhi --

regulative principles; apeksa -- reliance on; na -- not; kare -- does;

jihva -- the tongue; sparse -- by touching; a-candala -- even the lowest

of men, the candala; sabare -- everyone; uddhare -- delivers.

TRANSLATION

"One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities

required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with

his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.

 

Read the purport for further details

 

 

> Sunitha was his first spiritual guide, but it was not formal

> initiation. Can a person advance within devotional service without an

> initiating guru, but with instructions from a siksha guru?

 

If it were not true that one could advance in devotional service without

formal initiation, then there would be no use of preaching or engaging

people in ajnata-sukriti (pious activities on the spiritual platform

which are unknown to the performer), since no one could advance from the

stage of sraddha (initial faith) to later stages such as sadhu sanga

(saintly association), and bhajana-kriya (initiation), without being

initiated (which is the third stage of advancement). However, one should

have diksa in order to pass through anarta-nivriti (removal of the dirty

things in the heart) and all subsequent stages leading up to prema (pure

love of godhead).

 

ys,

 

Bhavasindhu dasa

______________

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Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

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