A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

[Guest guest]

Dear Mother Hare Krsna Devi Dasi;

 

PAMHO AGTSP

 

I hope and actualy know you do, but just think it needs to clarified, know

the difference in neglect and killing willfully. Sometimes due to the

elements of this material world devotees became overwhelmed with the fact

that cows reproduce very quickly and they were inept at protecting mother

cow. Sometimes to the point of becoming implicated in the charges you are

pointing out. But even under such duress of having cows running down the

roads and getting threatened, trying their best to protect them and having

them stuck in a mudhole and die even after working with them for many hours

to save them, still no devotee that I know ever decided to sell them to be

killed. There is a big difference. I have seen many cows die in my years

as servant here at New Talavan. I have had shotguns pointed at me because

of the cows being in peoples gardens and about a milliion threats. Not once

did I think this is the GBC fault, but knew it to be the fault of those who

were suppossed to be here taking this project to a standard that would

please Srila Prabhupada. Maybe we should be a little more responsible

ourselves and not just constantly say GBC this and GBC that it really does

start look like we the cowherds and servants here can't walk without a GBC

there to hold our hand. Hell, I don't need someone who doesn't know what a

cornerpost is telling me how to build a fence. This actually occured to me

one time when here at New Talavan I was fighting for monies to build the

fences and some devotee who called himself a manager wanted to grill me

about where I was using these funds. He became confused when I tried to

explain how many cornerposts I needed, because he wanted me to explain what

a cornerpost was.

I know you may have a larger agenda here, but I think the point should be

that the cow situation is best handled within with an org like you and

Balabadhra Prabhu and Rothita and of course others have spent so much energy

developing. A org of people who are familiar with and spending their lives

dedicated to cow protection. No GBC can stop a bull from breeding when a

cow is in heat. It has to be done by someone who has tasted the nectar of

Mother cow and Dharma by the mercy of Sri Guru and Gouranga. The devotee

involved bears the burden of the responsibility. I know there may be some

philiosophical argument about leadership, etc, but really leadership begins

with that person that doesn't make the effort of seperating the bull.

Claiming oh if only the GBC had been involved, I would have shut the gate.

This type of consciousness leads to more neglect than anything.

Again I reiterate there is no amount of villification sufficient for what

Drumaill DID. Not alleged DID. He admits it. He created the cardinal sin

of cow protection. If in my hands I shudder to think what I would do if I

had the power, which of course I don't being a servant of of the servant.

But this is the repulsion I feel.

The posting you made of the names of the cows and oxen is very much

appreciated because it begins to epitomize what Durmilla did. In fact this

case is probably the closest thing you have to an argument of leadership on

the higher levels being responsible for cow abuse. Because a person like

Drumilla should have never been allowed to take over at Murari. However he

gained the support of a board and actually was the hands down favorite to be

the savior of Murari. He made everyone think he was going to do something

great after he ran away all the devotees who objected to his policy. Then

he could heionously execute his perverted plan.

SUGGESTION: I should say humble suggestion. In the future it might be good

if any change in management dealing with a project that has cows should have

to be approved by ISKCOWP. If there is any lack of committement, then

perhaps they should not be allowed to take over such a project. This is

where the GBC should function as Srila Prabhupada intended. Not that

everytime the bull jumps the fence, then automatically it is GBC. In this

way a temple president or mananger should be aware that if you are in

trouble contact ISKCOWP and they will somehow help you find help. Don't say

if only the GBC man who was handling in crisis somewhere in someother place

had been here then I would have gone and fixed the fence.

I pray that my billigerent nature isn't to offensive to be of service.

 

Your fallen servant

Dvibhuja das

 

COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) <Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Cc: Bir Krishna Goswami <70324.1511 (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>; COM: Balavanta (das)

ACBSP <Balavanta.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Kalakantha (das) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)

<Kalakantha.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; Damon S Campbell <damoncampbell (AT) juno (DOT) com>; COM:

Mukhya (dd) (SysOp) (Lund - S) <Mukhya (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Tirtharaj (das) TKG

(Brisbane - AU) <Tirtharaj.TKG (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu

<npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu>; sawmilldirect (AT) webtv (DOT) net <sawmilldirect (AT) webtv (DOT) net>;

Rennaissanceart (AT) webtv (DOT) net <Rennaissanceart (AT) webtv (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection

and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development

<Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Sunday, November 07, 1999 9:50 PM

A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

 

 

>[Text 2762335 from COM]

>

>

>

>Hare Krsna dasi 8 Nov 1999

>

>A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

>

>***ABSTRACT: A recent incident of cow abuse in ISKCON has led to focus on

>the alleged perpetrator of the crime, but cow abuse in ISKCON has been

>widespread and on-going. ISKCON's history of cow abuse should be analyzed

>carefully, not simply to vilify certain individuals, but to examine how

>organizational weaknesses lead to situations that foster abuse. ISKCON's

>cowherds are among the least-empowered and lowly regarded members of the

>Krsna consciousness movement. Thus they lack the ability to be an

>effective voice for Krsna's cows. Their lack of direct, periodic and

>confidential access to their zonal GBC representatives in the past has

>impeded chances to make a plea for the welfare of the cows. ISKCON's law

>507 appears to resolve this problem by requiring GBC's to meet quarterly

>with cowherds, inspect cow protection facilities, and file a report with

>ISKCON's Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture. The shocking failure

>of GBC to file reports for 54 ISKCON farm communities for the past 2

>quarters has been a demoralizing blow to Krsna's cowherds around the world

>and has ominous implications for the safety of cows in ISKCON.***

>

>Today we will observe Govardhana Puja. We will worship Krsna as the

>lifter of Govardhana Hill and the protector of all the cowherd families

>and cows of Vrndavana. We will celebrate the occasion by special

>lectures, ecstatic kirtans, and great feasts of wonderful prasadam. This

>is appropriate. In our rural communities, we will have special

>festivities with the cows, maybe painting and decorating them, offering

>them special treats. This is fitting also.

>

>But as we are dancing in kirtan or feasting, we should remember some

>members of our Krsna conscious community who can no longer share in our

>celebration. These are eleven cows from the Murari Sevaka community in

>Tennessee:

>

>1. Indra - ox, (Brown Swiss mix) 8 --10 Yrs. old (not Trained)

>2. Chota - ox, (Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>3. Maha - ox, (Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>4. Bhima - ox, (Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>5. Bala - ox, (Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>6. Prabhu - ox, (Long Hair Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>7. Bimba - ox, (Red Angus+Brown Swiss) 6 Yrs. old (Trained)

>8. Tala - ox, (Black Angus+Brown Swiss) 6 Yrs. old (Trained)

>9. Dharma - ox, (Jersey) 4 Yrs. old (Trained)

>

>10. Hamsi - cow, (Herford mix ?) 12 Yrs.old

>11. Hamsi's Bull calf. He was about 1wk. old when given away.

>

>Allegedly at the arrangement of an ISKCON temple leader, these cows were

>sold at a Fayetteville auction in late June or early July of this year.

>Subsequently, they were taken to a packing house, where each one was

>murderously slaughtered.

>

>For us to advance in spiritual life it is essential to start by

>remembering Lord Krsna's wonderful pastimes as protector of the cows.

>Prabhupada states that, "One cannot become spiritually advanced without

>acquiring the brahminical qualifications and giving protection to cows."

>(SB 6.18.52 purport) But protecting the cows requires more than

>remembering Krsna's pastimes. We must remember His pastimes, then we must

>follow His example.

>

>Some devotees are upset that I have publicized the unfortunate tragedy of

>Murari Sevaka, but it is my conviction that until we realize our

>shortfalls in cow protection, we will not be able to take the proper steps

>to correct the practices which lead to tragedies like this. Once we admit

>that we have a very serious problem, then with Krsna's guidance, we can

>work together to overcome our sad track record in cow protection.

>

>But, I am afraid that devotees do not know that we have had problems

>around the world with cow abuse. Thus they minimize the gravity of the

>problem. Because of my involvement in ISKCON's agriculture over the past

>ten years or so, a number of problems have come to my attention. I will

>list some of those problems. As you read them, note how, in many cases,

>the GBC's lack of involvement opens the door to cow abuse.

>

>1. In 1989, I heard the first account of failure to protect cows in

>ISKCON. Pitavas prabhu from New Mayapur in France related to me that

>because of New Mayapur's tax difficulties, New Mayapur made arrangements

>for a karmi farmer to take care of their cows on his farm. Evidentally,

>the devotees were not able to check on their cows very frequently, and

>when Pitavas took over as head cowherd and went to visit the farmer, he

>discovered that several cows were missing. Evidentally, the farmer had

>sold them. As soon as Pitavas and his wife got another farm, and they

>took the remaining 108 cows to care for them there.

>

>2. Historically, the next problem of cow abuse that I heard about was an

>alleged long-term tragedy at New Vrndavana which took place while

>Kirtanananda was still the leader there. In the Fall 1995 issue of Hare

>Krsna Rural Life, Vyapaka prabhu related "An example of the failure to

>take this step [planning adequate grazing ground for herd expansion] in

>planning a cow protection program is the New Vrndavana community , which

>tried to partially finance their community through a dairy. It is

>reported elsewhere in the newsletter that the project now has 280 cows.

>However, I was always told that they were consistently milking 100 cows,

>and at least one year, many more. So the question begs to be asked [since

>a cow must produce a calf to be milked]: Where are all the cows? Using

>simple arithmetic shouldn't there be between 1000 and 2000 more animals?

> "In a commercial enterprise it is mandatory that many young

>calves, especially bulls, be sold into the veal trade and older cows be

>culled and slaughtered when their milk productions drops and a younger

>animal proves more profitable. But according to reports which have

>reached HKRL, this was not done at New Vrndavan. Instead, according to

>devotees who lived there, the animals, generally calves, were left outside

>in the winter to die an ignoble death. Starvation and freezing was to be

>their fate. This merciless torture was unceremoniously labeled `winter

>kill.'"

>

>3. In about 1993 or 1994, I heard that through neglect, an ox wandered

>into the hay barn at Gita-nagari, fell partway through the floor boards

>and was slowly electrocuted to death by the barn's electrical system.

>Also around that time, I had my heart broken to learn that Burfi, our

>handsome Brown Swiss lead ox at Gita-nagari for 12 years - who had even

>pulled a cart in front of the White House - was left for a number of days

>to die in a mud hole in the freezing winter weather.

>

>4. About 1992 or 1993, I learned that the San Diego temple held a

>Govardhana Puja celebration. They borrowed a bull calf from a farm for

>the purpose of the festivities. After the celebration, they returned the

>calf to the farmer - and thus to its ultimate slaughter.

>

>5. In 1996, on the COW conference, Hari Kirtan [text 141906 (7 Jan 96)]

>reported that devotees at Radhadesh in Belgium were grazing beef cattle

>for slaughter for a neighboring farmer: <<In order to have the grassland

>maintained, they rent most of it out to a karmi who lets his beef graze on

>it.>>

>

>Six months later Radhadesh's GBC, Suhotra Swami, posted the following

>comment to the COW conference, pointing out that as GBC he was not

>involved with policies involving cow protection at Radhadesh:

>

>[Text 181929 25-Jun-96; Text 368650 ] COM:

><Suhotra.Swami (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>

>I would just like to say here that during the previous Mayapur gathering,

>I understood from Hrdaya Caitanya Prabhu that the policy you are concerned

>about would be changed. Why it has been reversed again, I can only surmise

>from these communications. I am not a part of this decision.

>

>6. In 1996, I learned that devotees at Saranagati Farm in Canada were

>accepting a $11,000 per year tax exemption in return for grazing beef

>cattle for slaughter on their land:

>

> Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:15:51 -0800

>What is a horror to me and to just a few other devotees who own stock in

>Saranagati, is that each year the Saranagati Corporation provides a

>letter to the owner of the cows for his signature. This letter states that

>Saranagati land is used for cattle grazing for his cows. With this letter

>Saranagati is able to file tax returns as grazing land or farm property,

>thereby reducing our property taxes from an estimated eleven thousand

>dollars per year to under five hundred dollars. This is formally called

>our Farm Status. From my viewpoint, Saranagati has been directly receiving

>profit from the slaughter of cows since its founding in 1987. My viewpoint

>is not shared by the majority of old timers at the farm, who are also

>voting Directors, for a variety of twisted and well thought out excuses.

>Saranagati has two Swamis living there, Jagadisha Maharaja, and Dudhidhara

>Maharaja, who is a voting Director, and they have never been up in arms

>and demanded a stop to this practice, to my knowledge.

>

>7. Also 1996, I learned that Murari Sevaka had "traded" two unruly oxen

>for cows - thus sending the bulls to their ultimate slaughter. One

>resident described witnessing an exchange that took place when a woman who

>took care of the cows asked the GBC to approve the trade as he was leaving

>the farm to catch a plane. The resident stated that the GBC consented,

>commenting, "Alright, go ahead with it -- a soul for a soul!" When

>subsequently questioned about the event, the GBC had a different memory of

>the hurried exchange. Apparently, there was never any written report of

>the event.

>

>8. In September 1997 on the COW conference, Mahavishnu Swami (not a GBC

>for Italy) relayed a description of the treatment of cows at Villa

>Vrndavana [23 Sep 97, Text 809120]: <<Late last year one old bull, a

>veteran of Padayatra had died in Villa Vrndaban evidently suffering

>unnecessarily, and others were in bad shape. There were about 50 cows

>which could be barely maintained properly. Because of lack of manpower

>and laxmi they never got any exercise and the chains had eaten into their

>skins over the years.>> The local GBC had no knowledge of the problem.

>

>9. By November 1997, members of the COW conference were hearing of

>problems in Mayapura:

>

>2 Nov 97 08:11 EST [Text 877408 from COM]

> ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)

> Dayaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)

>

>Thank you for coming to New Vrindavan and spending time with us to discuss

>the cow situation in Mayapur Yatra and give us a better understanding of

>what's happening there.

>

>...You said that there are presently 25 cows milking giving between

>130-200 liters of milk daily.

>

>...You said that as far as you were concerned that there was to be no more

>breeding on a large-scale. The herd breeding would be held at 3 to 5 new

>animals per year and that the herd size of 155 was at the ceiling for your

>Yatra to manage.

>

>...You said that because in the recent past when there were between 15-20

>deaths at the Goshalla that you have taken personal interest as you felt

>responsible for those deaths because of lack of proper follow up and

>monitoring of the new personnel (who have been removed) in charge of the

>Goshalla.

>

>...BREEDING HAS TO BE CONTROLLED. PRACTICAL PLANNING AND MANAGEMENT HAS

>TO BECOME FIRST AND FOREMOST CONCERN.

>

>Without practical responsible management you will always be overwhelmed

>with problems. Manage things with INTELLIGENCE and not SENTIMENT.

>

>Will those who are opposed to controlled breeding take a vow at the Lotus

>Feet of the Deities that all animals bred by uncontrolled breeding be

>supported by their efforts? This means growing their feed. Providing

>storage facilities for the feed, with facility for grain grinding etc.

>Maintaining the upkeep of the Goshalla buildings. Will they check the

>animals on a daily basis and see how their health is and that their living

>conditions are clean and safe? Will they come daily and feed their

>dependents and milk them and train the oxen to work and be

>productive?????????

>

>In short WILL THEY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR DEPENDENTS

>SO THAT THEY ARE PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY AND NOT CONSIDERED A BURDEN

>FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO CARE FOR??????

>

>***By January 1998, Hari Sauri commented on the situation***

>Wed, 7 Jan 98 21:09 +0530 [Text 1014617]

>"COM: Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP"

>

>...It is a fact that due to gross mismanagement about 16 calves died

>within about 6 weeks during the summer. Dayarama prabhu, the Mayapur CEO,

>who had taken personal responsibility for correcting earlier problems in

>the goshalla, admitted that the new man he put in charge was inexperienced

>and also not carefully monitored. The result was that the new calves were

>badly neglected by not being given sufficient mother's milk in the first

>ten days. As a result quite a few died.

>

>

>

>9. In March 1998, the COW conference posted the following letter from

>Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP (GB)

>

>March 17, 1998 6:10 AM [Text 1171506]

>

>Before I left for India I had a report from Daiva Dina Dayal in Innisrath,

>Ireland. He told me the cows were sick and he wanted to see to them. On my

>last two days or so he arrived in India and gave me more details: He said

>these animals needed attention to: lice, ringworm, foot-trimming attention

>causing lameness, arthritis, due to lying on cold damp concrete, and

>overweight problems; because these animals or some of them are from

>another higher region where the animals survive on much poorer pasture

>than where they are at present and have been allowed unrestricted grazing.

>

>He had left one boy there in charge for the time being, but his

>recommendation was that if the temple do not want to allocate a permanent

>person or persons to look after the cows properly they should give them to

>another temple. What do you think the next move should be?

>

>*** In April, Pragosh prabhu responded to the complaints***

>

>15 Apr 98 07:45 +0000 [Text 1243861 from COM]

>"COM: Pragosh (das) SDG (IRL)

>

>I have been part of the Irish yatra for the last 15 years and want to make

>2 points regarding the cow programme on Inis Rath.

>

>1/ None of the present devotees at Inis Rath had anything to do with the

>initiation of the cow programme there. They have simply inherited it from

>previous management.

>

>2/ Over the last few years, as Manu prabhu mentioned, a considerable

>amount of effort and laxmi has gone into improving the conditions there

>for the cows. New yard and gosala etc. Such things cost a lot of laxmi

>- real and genuine blood, sweat and tears are sacrificed in the endeavour

>to get that laxmi together. It is not so difficult to come along after,

>ignorant of the history, and start passing judgement on the situation,

>using as a comparison the ideal, picture perfect situation for Krsna's

>cows.

>

>Finally I would just like to say that whatever problems may or may not be

>prevalent at Inis Rath that they pale into insignificance when compared to

>the problems regarding the cows at Mayapur, Murari Sevaka, and New

>Vrindavana among others.

>

>***Two points to note about Pragosh prabhu's entry: 1) Implication that

>most problems at Inis Rath were due to previous poor management, and 2)

>the fact that as early as April 1998, Murari Sevaka was already regarded

>as a trouble spot for cow protection by authorities such as himself.***

>

>*************

>

>10. In early March of 1999 we heard commentary from Syamasundara

>prabhu, a head cowherd at the Bhaktivedanta Manor expressing grave

>concerns about cow protection at the Mayapur & Vrndavan goshallas.

>

>Fri, 5 Mar 99 23:42 +0000 [Text 2138827]

> Devaprastha (das) SRS (Manor - UK)

>

>[From Syamasundara dasa:]

>

>As an observer visiting both goshallas this year my initial impression is

>that in both places there are a number of cows which seem well looked

>after. There are arrangements that the dung is moved daily and in Mayapur

>the floor is washed twice daily. Plenty of chopped straw and grasses are

>supplied to the tethered cows. The goshalla buildings appear somewhat

>rundown and this is polarised because in both cases there are significant

>new prosperous buildings being erected in the vicinity.

>

>Looking a little further a cow related person will notice some

>shortcomings and ask

>

>Where are all the bulls and oxen? Where are the pasturing grounds and

>fields cultivated by goshalla oxen?

>

>The answers to these questions is unpalatable. It points at a management

>system that has systematically sent cows and bulls away for perhaps

>decades. Perhaps every year for the past 10-15 years 50 cows from Vrndavan

>and 40 cows from Mayapur have been sold or donated to local farmers and

>families. The problem I fear is that this management system cannot

>guarantee a full life for the cows and bulls. My thoughts are that a

>significant number of these `protected animals' have been slaughtered. One

>major problem is that nobody can trace all these animals and confirm or

>deny the worst.

>

>As the members of the cow conference know only too well breeding cows is

>an extremely serious and essential necessity and requires complete

>dedication and support of men, money and land. The full impact of breeding

>policies has to be calculated over twenty years. This has clearly not been

>done in these two goshallas. Fundamentally there has been no energy going

>into the acquirement of land neither the proper utilisation of the oxen..

>

>Srila Prabhupada has warned "If you don't work the oxen you will think

>about killing them". This is what has happened indirectly in the two

>flagships of ISKCON goshallas. Srila Prabhupada wanted "Our cow protection

>program in India should be the exemplary standard for the whole world".

>Sadly these two goshallas are not giving any leadership at this time.

>

>Mayapur Goshalla is breeding about 30--40 cows each year. They should then

>have around 540-720 animals (based on an 18 year lifespan). They have 145.

>The missing cows have either been lost by neglect or deliberately sent

>away (especially the oxen) to local people. Thus there are 400-570 cows

>unaccounted for in the Mayapur goshalla. They currently have about 10

>bulls and oxen. From these they have one ox team. They are embarrassed

>because currently there is an inspiration towards Y2k readiness and they

>have no working oxen. The land is cultivated by petrol rotovators, and

>tractors. The internal transportation is done by tractors and motorised

>trailers. The management decisions have created unemployment for the oxen.

>There has been no thinking to date of how to make Mayapur dependant on the

>ox.

>

>Vrndavana Goshalla is breeding between 40-50 cows each year, thus they

>should have a herd of 720-900 cows and oxen. They have 198. There are then

>520-700 cows unaccounted for. Uddar Pradesh exports beef. Vrndavana

>goshalla has 5 bulls and 4 oxen. There is 7 acres of land of which about 3

>is pasture.

>

>How has it been possible that these flagships goshallas have been so

>sidelined to the realm of embarrassments to the cow protection cause. They

>are showing a standard at the other end of the spectrum to which Srila

>Prabhupada wanted.

>

>Why has there not been hundreds of acres of land purchased for the welfare

>of the cows and bulls in both Mayapur and Vrndavana. Mayapur should have

>no less than 700 acres of land just for grazing, what to speak of

>agricultural land to engage the oxen. Vrndavan should have 900 acres of

>pasture land and at least the same again for agriculture. Who can address

>this serious area of concern ? Who can champion the land requirements for

>these cows. There must be a serious approach to the purchase of the land

>required for these two goshallas. The land requirements for the growing

>Mayapur city are great and the cows play a central role in the world

>model. The land requirements for the cows and oxen must be placed firmly

>in the fore front of any discussions regarding Vrndavana and Mayapur.

>

>Some thoughts from an observer.

>

>Yours in the service of the cows

>Syamasundara dasa

>Pilgrimage to India spring 1999

>

>***Syamasundara prabhu's commentary was rebuffed Mahaman prabhu, temple

>president of Krsna Balarama Mandir***

>

>18 Mar 99 16:43 +0530 [Text 2169037]

> Mahaman (das) ACBSP (TP Vrindavan - IN)

>

><Mahaman is it true that our Cows are being slaughtered?

><Please let me have some feedback in this issue.

>

><yspda

>

>-------------

>Dear Prithu Prabhu,

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

>Prabhupad.

> It is not true that our cows are being slaughtered!!!! We have

>learnt at least that much by being in this movement!!!

> Since I assumed presidentship of Vrindavan 10 bulls were sent to

>ISKCON's farm in Chandrapur, where they are engaged in farm work. However,

>in 1997 the management of the Goshala was transferred to H.H. B.B. Govinda

>Swami, who appointed Ganapati Prabhu to manage the Goshala. So, 50 cows

>and bulls were transferred during -97-98 to a wellmanaged Goshala in

>Kanpur. This Goshala is maintained by persons, who are very much devoted

>to Cow Protection and there is no danger whatsoever that the cows and

>bulls transferred there be neglected or mistreated. In any case, since

>B.B. Govinda Swami directly assumed responsibility for the Goshala, he

>would be in a better position to clarify this matter.

> Please note that in any case we do not sell any cows or bulls, but

>only give them to persons, in whom we have a high degree of trust that

>they will not mistreat them.

> The present management team is very much committed to protecting

>the cows and the bulls, and we are making many skims for their protection,

>including trying to purchase more land for the cows.

> Presently, the Goshala in Vrindavan is flourishing and

>well-supported. It was false that cows are neglected in Vrindavan. Rather

>the temple subsidizes the Goshala to the tume of Rs.40 000/- per month.

>Gomata ki jaya!

>Thanking you

>Your Servant

>[Mahaman]

>

>***At this point ISCOWP presented some previous correspondence with

>Pancagauda prabhu in Vrndavana, including allegations of cow abuse at

>Vrndavana which they had received from another source:***

>

>iscowp <iscowp (AT) ovnet (DOT) com>

>Monday, January 04, 1999 8:53 PM

>

>>Dear Pancaguada Prabhu,

>>

>>PAMHO. AGTSP.

>>

>>In the last year we have received reports from various devotees that cows

>from the Vrndavana Goshalla are being sold and/or given to those who can

>not be relied upon to protect them. It is not until we received this

>letter have we chosen to write you as we personally know the source and

>there are claims of persons who can verify the information. Obviously we

>have not given their names herewith to protect them at this time. We

>remember how you were very concerned about our oxen in North Carolina and

>now that you are the vice president of Vrndavana we felt you would be the

>most likely person to write.

>>

>>The great concern is that the Vrndavana Goshalla continues to breed when

>there is not enough land, so little land that the cows are not grazing.

>This puts the pressure of too many cows and therefore the rationale to get

>rid of them. The breeding seems to be because of the desire for milk. We

>are not in the milk producing business, i.e. commercial dairy, but in the

>cow protection business....

>>

>>Please find the following letter. I am looking forward to your early

>response.

>>

>>Your servant,

>>Balabhadra das

>>ISKCON Minister for Cow Protection and Agriculture

>>

>>Dear Balabhadra and Chayadevi prabhus

>>

>>Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>>

>>I have just returned from Vrindaban and I enquired about the selling of

>bulls to the Muslims. Nobody recalls that that directly took place but

>admit that indirectly that must have been the result of selling or

>donating bulls to local farmers, when they no longer had any use for them.

>This was a general practice before Kadamba Kanana was Temple president,

>when Kesi Daman was in charge of the Goshalla. Kadamba Kanana did not

>allow animals to go out. I asked Kesi Damam, whom I happened to meet in

>the Goshalla, and he denied selling bulls to the locals, and someone else

>of good repute said he did sell to Muslims. Anyway the end result is

>there.

>>

>>This is all about ten years ago, but there is a recent event which is a

>great shame to Vrindaban Goshalla and to the Society. Some say it took

>place a year ago and others six months ago, there is someone reliable who

>can provide all the names of the people, of the animals and all necesary

>proof. 30 calves, at least one good bull and six cows with their calves,

>who were giving less milk were donated to the temple chowkidars by

>Ganapati. The Vrindaban Guest house-in-charge (Krsna Balarama) and

>authorised by Bhakti Vrn Govinda Maharaj ( formerly Ayodhapti, , , "Food

>for Life"- famous). These chowkidars have their land and village in Bihar,

>a long way from Vrindaban and (the same person as quoted in the first

>paragraph) saw the cows being beaten and shoved into a truck... they

>didn't want to go. The Chowkidars are likely to be meat eaters..... not

>cow of course but not the kind of people to care much for cow protection.

>And furthermore one good bull which was sent away, had previously some

>years back been given to a man in Kosi, which is still in Braj, but far

>from Vrindaban, I'm not sure how far exactly, and he had broken his chain

>there and run all the way back to Vrindaban in the night and in the

>morning he was at the Goshalla gates.

>>

>>Prabhu this is too much that again they sent this bull away.... to Bihar

>from were he cannot come back. Please do investigate this cow abuse at

>Vrindaban Goshalla and please do ask them to bring some animals back at

>least or again and again they will do this. It is also said NanaNandan

>who lives at the Goshalla and caries out orders of the others, also pushes

>out animals quietly for 500 Rs. bribe.

>>

>>The present Goshalla in charge is Prem Kishore prabhu and all this

>happened before he came to Vrindaban. He was formerly Kasiram das, and

>Prem Kishore is his sannyas name, and now he is grhasta. He is very good

>and will not let any animals go from the goshalla and he is doing his best

>to care for the cows but with great difficulty. I asked him to bring back

>those animals but he dare not even say anything to Ganapati and all will

>be afraid of the chowkidars. Then what?

>>

>>Again this will go on. It is not cow protection at all there. It is

>like a commercial dairy.... there is great pressure to supply milk, milk,

>milk and get profit. Although he knows Indian breeds should be kept, Prem

 

>Kishore has purchased 2 Holsteins for the Goshalla who give 18 litres a

>day, as milk was required and as a result of inbreeding the herd was not

>doing well, and he wasn't able to purchase a good Indian cow. But this

>expediency will not help, and these Holstein calves will pose a problem

>economically and cross breeding would be a mistake.

>>

>>There will be problems for sure. He says he will keep the bull calves.

>But they dont have any grazing land there. I pledged one lace rupees

>towards land if I can be sure they will buy it. Prem Kishore wants to get

>on the cow conference so I'm sending his some money for the modem,

>whatever that is. Then you will really be able to help him as required.

>If you write to Vrindaban send it registered. Mail is not getting there.

>Gopal Krsna Maharaj is GBC all these years and is ultimatly responsible,

>but doesn't want to get involved. I remember once running into him at the

>Guruvayor Temple in South India, where he was planning to buy an elephant

>for Krsna Balarama Mandir. He never did thank goodness, but he should see

>that the poor cows are protected there, and that they have enough land to

>graze on. Devotees are spending fortunes on their own homes in Vrindaban.

>If they want to drink milk they should share in providing for the cows and

>bulls and calves.

>

>***Excerpts from a further comment from Pancagauda prabhu:***

>

>--Original Message-----

>COM: Pancagauda (das) ACBSP (Vrindavan - IN)

>Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:50 PM [Text 1991367 from COM]

>

>>We are being very strict now and are not moving any cows or bulls out of

>Vrindavana. I can understand everyone's concern, but that descision was

>made by the Goshala incharge at the time, but now we have several persons

>overseeing the goshala.

>

>...At present we have 191 cows, bulls and calves, 40 of which are milking.

>5 full grown bulls, 4 oxen, 45 dry cows, 35 calves male, 42 female calves

>20 retired old cows.

>>

>>Prem Kishore Prabhu is now the head of the goshala, he has done a

>wonderful job renovating, tagging all the animals and hiring responsible

>workers to care for all of the cows needs. As far a Nandanandana is

>concerned, he is also a very nice devotees and has been serving in

>Vrindavana for a very long time. I have never heard of him doing any

>dishonest activities, such as giving away animals for a so called rs. 500

>bribe.

>

>

>***After a further exchange with Balabhadra prabhu, Pancagauda forwarded a

>report from Prem Kisore prabhu. Here are excerpts:***

>

>COM: Pancagauda (das) ACBSP (Vrindavan - IN)

>Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:16 PM [Text 2073022 from COM]

>

>>Dear Balarabhadra Prabhu,

>

>>...I forwarded your letter to Prem Kishore Prabhu, and he just gave me a

>response. Here it is:

>>

>>Dear Balabhadra Prabhu,

>>

>> Our overhead is roughly $3500 per month and income is

>approximately $2700 per month leaving a deficit of $800 per month. So we

>have enacted a following program to make up the difference...

>>

>> 4. We have inherited a situation which we have little to do with,

>meaning we have 197 cows, calves etc. and 7 acres of land and fixed

>overhead. So we are trying to do the best we can, under the given

>circumstances.

>

>> ...6. We have discussed about 6 months ago with the temple president

>about forming a trust fund for cows. He agreed so we have spoken to a

>lawyer about how to establish it properly. But things progress slowly here

>in India so patience is required. But our objective is clear.

>

>> ...8. Previous to my taking charge to Goshala there was no

>categorization of our herd according to breed and no control of

>reproduction of the animals in our herd. So now all the animals are tagged

>and named and a separate file is being kept on each of other member of our

>herd which will include their breed, their age, data of mother, father and

>no. of children and medical history same for cows, bulls and oxen...

>>

>>Your sincerely

>>

>>Prem Kishore Das.

>

>***************

>

>Without a doubt, a number of these faults have been corrected, but is that

>enough? Or are we just trying to sweep our mistakes of the past under the

>carpet to save our reputation? But who are we fooling? If ISKCON were

>serious about cow protection, the GBC would stay informed about cow

>protection in their zones. ISKCON would have funded the Ministry of Cow

>protection and Agriculture so it could to travel to help farms maintain

>proper standards and appoint and fund agents to investigate complaints

>

>But instead, the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture (which is

>unfunded) informs us that the GBC has not filed the past two quarterly cow

>protection reports required by ISKCON law 507.

>

>***************

>Sat, 6 Nov 99 01:08 -0500

>Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP

>

>Obviously this is not a sick joke. At first I thought I was reading the

>list incorrectly [balabhadra's Nov 2 post: Cow/Ag reports due]; that these

>were the places from which reports WERE received. But, no, the list is of

>those places [54 ISKCON farm communities] and GBCs from whom you have not

>received reports as required by ISKCON Corporate by-laws...

>

>Could you give us a list of those who HAVE complied with the laws?

>

>Is there ever any acts of contrition from these so-called leaders? They

>may be devotees, but they are certainly not leaders....

>

>Hare Krsna dasi got on my case, respectfully, about doubting whether this

>reporting would take place when I stated my doubts back in June of this

>year. I relented and decided to give her time to convince me.

>

>The GBC is really not very convincing in their care about one of our very

>most important Krsna-citizens, the cows.

>

>***********************

>

>So, my dear Sons on the GBC, I stood up for you in June. I said that you

>would come through. I said that you would meet with the cowherds and

>inspect the cows' facilities - as you are required to do according to

>ISKCON law. Now you have made a fool of me. You let the deadlines for 2

>reports slide by as you attended to business more important than cow

>protection, as you talked with people more important than farmers.

>Meanwhile, the cows are drifting toward further tragedies.

>

>Will you continue to turn your back on Krsna's cowherds?

>

>Will there be any public acts of contrition for all this abuse? Or will

>you continue your mantra: "I'm not responsible. I knew nothing."

>

>Your servant,

>

>Hare Krsna dasi

>

>

>

>Without a proper arrangement for developing brahminical culture and

>protecting cows, all the affairs of administration will go to hell.

>

> - SB 7.3.13 PURPORT

>

>

>ISKCON Law 507: Minimum Cow Protection Standards can be found at

>

>http://www.angelfire.com/co/iscowp/frameset.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

In regards to Hare Krsna dasi's letter of the history of cow abuse in

ISKCON, I would like to be sure that the history is correct by including

information about cow abuse at New Gokula, Australia which was omitted. I

have written many letters to the authorities in charge making the head

cowherd and temple president receivers. I received one letter form the

temple president in which he expressed his displeasure at having to address

the matter. Nothing from the head cowherd.

 

As is often the case with reports of cow abuse which are followed up, this

ministry is either ignored or scolded for having questioned the management.

The result is that nothing is done and the cows suffer. One may say that

reports can be exagerated, etc. However we have received photos of the

condition of some of these cows and they substantiate the reports. As one

GBC we showed them to said, "It is hard to refute the photos."

 

At present at New Gokula there are reports of cows missing. A recent

managerial consideration is to buy additional milking cows from a local

dairy so money can be made from selling milk and no responsibility needed to

take care of their offspring who have already been sent to slaughter.

Considering New Gokulas past history, and conditions given within the

Standards, this is not a good path to take.

 

Your servant,

Balabhadra das

ISKCON Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture

 

P.S. I would aso like to state that Hare Krsna dasi's information about the

first dispersal of cows at Murari Sevaka was 12 animals not 2.

 

jenny merrett pusti dasi

ISCOWP (AT) ovnet (DOT) com <ISCOWP (AT) ovnet (DOT) com>

Monday, March 08, 1999 7:16 PM

 

>There are bullocks on this farm that do not have any medical attention and

they have big abscesses on there jaws which has made their mouths deformed

and in turn they are unable to eat properly or not at all which means they

are staving to death. I saw one of these bullocks not so long ago when I was

showing a guest around the farm and it was their first visit, the bullock

was right up at the fence in full view and I was completely shocked and so

was the visitor. He was very thin and it was surprising with a deformed

mouth. I don't know where he has been put to if he is already dead but he is

know out of sight.

 

>From Pusti dasi March 19

 

>I am writing with great concern about one of the cows on the farm right

now. For 2 weeks one of the milkers has been unable to walk because she has

hurt her back leg. Her name is Gokularani, and she is a young cow with no

other problems with her health. It took 1 week before she was moved up to

the barn and she was moved with the tractor with her in the shovel bit at

the front and her head hanging over the front . Many devotees were witness

to this, most thought nothing of it and a few others were very disturbed

from it, at first they thought she must of been dead. One devotee (I am not

saying names) went up to the shed and asked what was wrong with the cow and

the answer she got form Atmarama was "it depends on who you ask." Gokularani

wasn't moved until after Prabha Visnu Maharaja had gone. I am sure if he saw

how she was moved he wouldn't of been impressed. As I said in my last letter

there is a sling to move cows and the way she was moved would of been very

painful for her especially getting her on to it. The problem now is that

she is under shelter (this is fine) but she has bails of hay all around her

so she can't move anywhere. She smells really bad because she is sitting in

her own excretions and you can tell she is very disturbed by it because she

keeps trying to get up. If the sling was used for her now she would get some

relief from laying down.

 

She can move her leg, so it might not be broken. The worst thing is that

Atmarama (the temple president) and Ananta don't want any vets coming to

find out what is wrong because "it would be bad P.R. " If a vet was bought

in at least we would know if it is just a sprain. Surely even a broken leg

can be fixed over time. She should at least be given a chance to get

better. I don't know if she is being given anything to eat or drink, there

was no water there when I went to see her yesterday. If this is so then she

will only die of starvation. She is a strong cow and if she is just being

left to die then it will be a very slow unnecessary death.

 

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! CAN YOU DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. Something needs to

be done RIGHT NOW before more offences are caused by these devotees.

 

 

Niscala dasi

COM: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA) <ISCOWP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Kalpa Vrksa

Monday, June 14, 1999 9:20 PM

 

Gokularani, who died from falling in a ditch he made, after being dragged up

to the barn. ..........but I personally saw her in the

Ditch that he made and she was quite hopelessly stuck.

 

 

RJ Betty

ISCOWP (AT) ovnet (DOT) com <ISCOWP (AT) ovnet (DOT) com>

Tuesday, March 09, 1999 7:57 PM

New Gokula Farming Community

 

 

>There was an instance where a very old milking cow, Chanchala, had

broken her hip and was immobile. The cow herself was 23 years old and

was placed by Ananta sesa in a ploughed paddock.The reason her hip was

brocken is a mystery, but on quick inspection of the field you can see

that the ground is extremely rocky and has hundreds of huge pot holes

from the ploughing. I might ad that this field is also hard for me to

walk through without falling down, and in the past I have fallen in that

paddock due to the uneveness of it. That field was no place for an old cow

like her to be in. She also had severe arthritis and could only walk with

great difficulty. Ananta sesa's response to Chanchala's broken hip was to

call Ramai Swami in Australia and ask if he could put her down; that is to

say kill her. Ramai Swami of course told him not to do that. Ananta then

draged Chanchala by the horns with the tractor up to the barn where she

died. The barn from the ploughed field is at least 400 to 500 metres away,

four fences must be passed through and it is all up hill. Chanchala died

shortly after. It was not that Ananta didn't have other means of

transporting Chanchala to the barn. We have a cow sling on the farm which

attaches to the tractor. This surely would have been an ahimsa method of

transporting her to the barn.

 

>There are many more instances that I could site. One thing that has

happened due to the cruel mistreatment of these cows and bullocks is

that there has been a ban on anyone, devotee or otherwise, walking into any

of the paddocks. This was sanctioned by Atmarama prabhu, Syndey Temple

President and president of the farm. All the gates have been padlocked to

ensure no one can deal with anything going on in the

paddocks. There has been offers from devotees to take care of the

bullocks and cows but as I see it there is such a case of neglect

resulting from Ananta sesa'a mistreatment of the bovine population on

the farm that he can no longer afford for devotees or karmis to see the

state of the bullocks without him incurring incredibly bad reactions.

 

Thankyou for listening and I pray with all earnesty

that through Krishnas devotees the situation on New Gokula is rectified and

the cows and devotees can peacufully go about their service without fear of

mistreatment.

 

>Bhakta Rhyce Winterbourne

[Guest guest]

"COM: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2763745 from COM]

>

> Dear Prabhus,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

>

> In regards to Hare Krsna dasi's letter of the history of cow abuse in

> ISKCON, I would like to be sure that the history is correct by including

> information about cow abuse at New Gokula, Australia which was omitted. I

> have written many letters to the authorities in charge making the head

> cowherd and temple president receivers. I received one letter form the

> temple president in which he expressed his displeasure at having to address

> the matter. Nothing from the head cowherd.

>

 

I must say that based on all the information I have heard about different

ISKCON

farms over the years, I would be very surprised to find even one ISKCON farm

older than 5 years old which has more than 10 cows and *no* history of cow

abuse whatsoever. Realistically, based on what I have heard over the years, I

would be very surprised.

 

Despite the good intentions of some of the caretakers, just as little children

are likely to be abused when raised in the institutional setting of an

orphanage, rather than in private homes, similarly cows raised in institutional

goshallas are more likely to be abused than those raised on a small-scale

family

farm (ceteris paribus).

 

The institutional goshalla or pinjrapol was invented by Gandhi -- not by Krsna.

Naturally, we sometimes have to use this form of cow care, but we should keep

its hazards clearly in mind to avoid the pitfalls of the system.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

>The institutional goshalla or pinjrapol was invented by Gandhi -- not by

Krsna.<

 

Hare Krishna dasi has hit the nail on the head. Communism doesn't work in

ISKCON (or anywhere else for that matter). It doesn't work with cow

protection nor with gurukula, etc. When we realize this then we will be

ready to restructure ISKCON

[Guest guest]

> >The institutional goshalla or pinjrapol was invented by Gandhi -- not by

> Krsna.<

>

> Hare Krishna dasi has hit the nail on the head. Communism doesn't work in

> ISKCON (or anywhere else for that matter). It doesn't work with cow

> protection nor with gurukula, etc. When we realize this then we will be

> ready to restructure ISKCON

 

Thank you very much Maharaja, I was waiting since very long for such a clear

message from you. Now I,m convinced Communism is over...

 

Sincerely

Harsi das

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

 

Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Bir Krishna Goswami <BKGoswami (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>

Monday, November 08, 1999 3:13 PM

Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

 

 

> [Text 2764223 from COM]

>

> >The institutional goshalla or pinjrapol was invented by Gandhi -- not by

> Krsna.<

>

> Hare Krishna dasi has hit the nail on the head. Communism doesn't work in

> ISKCON (or anywhere else for that matter). It doesn't work with cow

> protection nor with gurukula, etc.

 

We greatly appreciate this statement. The concept of family farms caring for

cows within a large village setting with the temple worship of Lord Krsna in

the center has been an ongoing discussion for several years on the cow

conference as a solution to cow abuse.

 

When we realize this then we will be

> ready to restructure ISKCON

 

Is it now that serious dialogue can open up with the leaders as how to begin

to develop this alternative or must we continue the discussion on the cow

conference for several more years and every year report on going cow abuse

cases within our communistic structure?

 

Your servant,

Balabhadra das

>

[Guest guest]

> . Communism doesn't work in

> ISKCON (or anywhere else for that matter). It doesn't work with cow

> protection nor with gurukula, etc. When we realize this then we will be

> ready to restructure ISKCON

 

You say we must have a gosala trust, that is our real purpose.

krsi-goraksya-vanijyam vaisya karma svabhava-jam, [bg 18.44]. Where there is

agriculture there must be cows. That is our mission: Cow protection and

agriculture and if there is excess, trade. This is a no-profit scheme. For

the agriculture we want to produce our own food and we want to keep cows for

our own milk. The whole idea is that we are Iskcon, a community to be

independent from outside help. This farm project is especially for the

devotees to grow their own food. Cotton also, to make their own clothes. And

keeping cows for milk and fatty products.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Yasomatinandana -- Vrindaban 28 November,

1976

 

 

The seeds of that reorganization have already been approved by the GBC. The

idea being to establish Trusts that own land and income producing assets to

be available to promote land based economies.

 

If everyone would take individual responsibility and work to establishing

actual working trusts, or at lest to make some contributions to those

Trusts, we can began to move forward. Some devotees will be working in

actuality on the land, it is for the balance of devotees who continue to

function in the cash economy to help build the equity necessary for these

land based economies to exist.

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you very much Maharaja, I was waiting since very long for such a clear

> message from you. Now I,m convinced Communism is over...

>

> Sincerely

> Harsi das

 

Syamasundara: Their idea is that human nature has no reality of its own. It is

simply a product of the material environment. Thus, by putting a man in the

factory and making him identify with the state and something like scientific

achievement, they think they can transform him into a selfless person.

Srila Prabhupada: But because he has the basic disease, envy, he will remain

selfish. When he sees that he is working so hard but that the profit is not

coming to him, his enthusiasm will immediately slacken. In Bengal there is a

proverb: "As a proprietor I can turn sand into gold, but as soon as I am no

longer the proprietor, the gold becomes sand." The Russian people are in this

position. They are not as rich as the Europeans or the Americans, and because

of

this they are unhappy.

Syamasundara: One of the methods the authorities in Russia use is to constantly

whip the people into believing there may be a war at any moment. Then they

think, "To protect our country, we must work hard."

Srila Prabhupada: If the people cannot make any profit on their work, however,

they will eventually lose all interest in the country. The average man will

think, "Whether I work or not, I get the same result. I cannot adequately feed

and clothe my family." Then he will begin to lose his incentive to work. A

scientist will see that despite his high position, his wife and children are

dressed just like the common laborer.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Shortcomings of Marxism

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus;

 

PAMHO AGTSP

 

I am glad you brought up this point. Actually the cry of abuse is sometimes

to the point of being just plain wrong. It happens all the time. Someone

says something and then immediately it is fact. So I truly beleive that

devotees are trying to do and are doing a very valuable service in cow

protection.

For instance, how many people in the west have seen an old cow. If you

come to an ISKCON farm especially one with cows from long ago, you will see

some big and skinny lookng cows in the heard. Their teeth naturally wear

down with age and they get thinner and eventually die.

What is this nonsense about communal living. Where is this coming from.

Srila Prabhupada instituted this program and it can work just fine. What it

needs is someone who is willing to work without thinking about what is on

the tv tonight or something along that line. Cow protection is ideal in a

communal enviroment or in the home enviroment. Of course the problem is too

many cows due to overbreeding. But to conclude that means there should not

be communal cowherds is a reach to say the least. Lets don't throw out the

baby with the bathwater. It is just as easy to take care of twenty cows as

2. It is all in management. So of course we must always be open to change

but pray tell me how you plan on structuring this utopia of dedicated

individuals bringing milk everyday to the temple. Fine until they have a

calf or two. Then what? They want to bring it to the temple. Cow

protection will always be communal at least to the larger porportion.

Although individual cow protection will of course develop some, it will

never supplant the communal system set into place by His Divine Grace.

Actually the same is true for agriculture. It has to be centered around the

deities in the temple, otherwise the strength will not develop. It is a

tough row to hoeincow protection, one cannot go it alone.

I have seen it attempted and the problem is in order to milk you need

calves and this increases with time.

At New Talavan we have created a fairly enjoyable experience by the

grhastas coming and taking part in the cow protection. Once a devotee asked

Srila Prabhupada if we should farm communally or seperate and he replied

that faming meant communally. So I think that the congregation should be

involved, but the Goshalla will always be communal although a independent

Grhasta can manage, but it requires the support of the temple.

In Vrndavan the cows were taken care of communally wern't they.

 

YS

Dvibhuja das

 

WWW: Lola (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (Vancouver - CAN) <Loladd1 (AT) aol (DOT) com>

COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama

development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; Bir Krishna Goswami

<70324.1511 (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>

Monday, November 08, 1999 7:20 PM

A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

 

 

>[Text 2764733 from COM]

>

>On 08 Nov 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

>

>

>> 6. In 1996, I learned that devotees at Saranagati Farm in Canada were

>> accepting a $11,000 per year tax exemption in return for grazing beef

>> cattle for slaughter on their land:

>>

>

>I would like to thank Hare Krsna Dasi for all of her work in protecting

cows.

>I would also like to give some additional detail about this accusation

against

>Saranagati. The devotees at Saranagati did not want beef cattle on their

>land. The cattle were present only because the 5 miles of fence needed to

>keep them out was not there nor could the devotees at that time afford to

>quickly construct it. The cattle wandered on to the land on their own. I

>will inquire as to the status now in 1999 and let you know

>

>ys

>Lola devi dasi

>

>

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP

 

I don't understand the idea that communism is bad. It has its problems of

course in its material sense because people are not Krishna conscious.

However, if we are devotees and we worship the Diety of Krishna as our

master then don't we have to have some way to serve Him. Is He meant to

just depend on our cows or is it He should own cows also and we should milk

them for Him?

I don't quite understand the concept where it is said the problem of

becoming better protectors fo Krishna's cows can be corrected by changing

some system. Now the cowherd can take some share of the milk for his

family. That has always existed, although in the beginning it may have been

snuck out of the barn, still the individual was able to satisfy his or her

needs.

It seems to work where there is more than one person responsible for a

project. How can we always look to a GBC or other temple leader to be in

charge of everything. There simply has to be the mood of cooperation.

I have experienced cow protection from all sides and have seen individual

householders mess up in cow protection also. It is not such a prominent

thing because they don't have so many animals.

The point is the ISKCON farm communities would not have had so many

progeny had not some person been neglectful of his or her service. This

cannot be forced but can only come when we truly know that these are

Krishna's cows and we are responsible to Him.

It is true that there must be some ability for the cowherd to make a

living, but if he is dedicated to serving Mother cow and working hard to

serve Srila Prabhupada's mission of cow protection there will be no

shortage. As Srila Prabhupada pointed out there is no shortage except

Krishna consciousness.

So the point of individuals managing for a cut has been going on forever,

but the point is we have to remember the cows actually belong to Krishna or

we will have more people like Drumilla in Murari. Thinking these cows are a

burden so let me sell them. Srila Prabhupada warned us here at New Talavan

that the bulls must be engaged or we will think let me sell them. So it

came to pass. It only takes the right situation with the right debauch,

then it happens.

SUGGESTION: What we need is more of a communal atmosphere in ISKCON in

relationship to Cow protection and agriculture. If there was a foundation

where individuals who were trained in the Vedic arts of Oxen,Cloth

making,pottery, etc could go to different Iskcon farms and give seminars and

actually bring individuals from India to work the oxen for sometime, then

let the americans watch and learn how to do this then they could make this

their engagement. In this relationship it could eventually come to pass.

However with the cows themselves because of the large amount of land needed,

etc, it seems that the main herd will always be the property of the Dieties.

No one else has shown the dedication to work in a business which takes your

laksmi every year and only gives you simple treasures in return. No big

income, just simple things like unpolluted milk products,peace and

tranquility,spiritual advancement and ultimatly love of God. It can be

better compared to Diety worship than any other engagement. It seems that

at least for the next 20 to 30 years the only alternative is for the temple

to treat its cowherd men as valuable commodities and become very dependent

on developing the oxen as a source of preaching work and simultaneously

realize that Laksmi doesn't come from some material arrangement, but by

pleasing the Supreme Lord with our endeavor.

 

ys

Dvibhuja das

 

COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)

<Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama

development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Mukhya (dd) (SysOp)

(Lund - S) <Mukhya (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Monday, November 08, 1999 8:40 PM

Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

 

 

>[Text 2764807 from COM]

>

>>

>> Thank you very much Maharaja, I was waiting since very long for such a

clear

>> message from you. Now I,m convinced Communism is over...

>>

>> Sincerely

>> Harsi das

>

>Syamasundara: Their idea is that human nature has no reality of its own. It

is

>simply a product of the material environment. Thus, by putting a man in the

>factory and making him identify with the state and something like

scientific

>achievement, they think they can transform him into a selfless person.

>Srila Prabhupada: But because he has the basic disease, envy, he will

remain

>selfish. When he sees that he is working so hard but that the profit is not

>coming to him, his enthusiasm will immediately slacken. In Bengal there is

a

>proverb: "As a proprietor I can turn sand into gold, but as soon as I am no

>longer the proprietor, the gold becomes sand." The Russian people are in

this

>position. They are not as rich as the Europeans or the Americans, and

because

>of

>this they are unhappy.

>Syamasundara: One of the methods the authorities in Russia use is to

constantly

>whip the people into believing there may be a war at any moment. Then they

>think, "To protect our country, we must work hard."

>Srila Prabhupada: If the people cannot make any profit on their work,

however,

>they will eventually lose all interest in the country. The average man will

>think, "Whether I work or not, I get the same result. I cannot adequately

feed

>and clothe my family." Then he will begin to lose his incentive to work. A

>scientist will see that despite his high position, his wife and children

are

>dressed just like the common laborer.

>

>>>> Ref. VedaBase => Shortcomings of Marxism

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In text 2764223 from COM, Bir Krishna Goswami wrote:

 

>Hare Krishna dasi has hit the nail on the head. Communism doesn't work in

>ISKCON (or anywhere else for that matter). It doesn't work with cow

>protection nor with gurukula, etc. When we realize this then we will be

>ready to restructure ISKCON

 

Communism "doesn't work with cow protection nor with gurukula"... nor with

the GBC. If "Communism doesn't work in ISKCON or anywhere else for that

matter" then the first priority of the Society and its GBC Executive

Committee should be to move away from the longstanding centralism and

privileges within the GBC.

 

To most thinking devotees it is inconveivable that the Body is composed

mostly of the same people year after year. Many of its members have proven

their limited capacity and vision but remain entrenched in their position

and taking on new responsibilities. Big blunders with real estate,

philosophical deviations, crimes, petty excentricities or gross falldowns

by individual GBCs are usually swept under the rug, betting on ISKCON's

short-lived collective memory.

 

All this occurs at the expense of opportunities for many other qualified

devotees within the Movement who could be the current GBCs of the Society

in a system of continual renewal, training, monitoring and rectification

for leaders. Many believe that if the whole GBC resigned or were removed

things could only get better. This is so simply from fact that the new GBCs

would emerge from a grass-roots process in which they would feel

accountable first to their constituency than to their GBC buddies, and

their assignments would be limited to what they can actually handle.

 

Today the GBC looks like the Soviet leadership, a devotional version of the

Brezhnevian gerontocracy. Since 1977 the GBC system is one in which an

individual remains indefinitely a member until he bloops, dies or becomes

disabled. Everything is overlooked while the GBCs close ranks when one of

them is put under scrutiny. But Srila Prabhupada stated back in 1970 that:

"The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be

re-elected at the end of this period." This has never happened. So, the

challenge is the same as the one placed repeatedly to an ardient Communist,

Fidel Castro: "Allow free elections."

The problems with the Gurukula, cow protection, etc., are simply byproducts

of the main problem within ISKCON: The corruption of the GBC. Corruption

does not mean that the individual GBCs are a bunch of crooks but that they

are part of a system that day by day becomes less effective to conduct the

Movement, and the individual GBCs often have to betray their own principles

supporting the staus-quo. It is like stagnated water, you can smell the

stench. And if this is intolerable even in karmi businesses, etc., then

what to speak of a group whose only asset is the elevated values that it is

trying to propagate.

"We will be ready to restructure ISKCON" when the tired, overwhelmed, in

nefective, dictatorial, bureaucratic leadership is replaced with local,

representative, trained, monitored and dynamic individual GBCs. Everything

else is simply words.

Your servant

Radha Krsna dasa

Mexico City

[Guest guest]

> Is it now that serious dialogue can open up with the leaders as how to

> begin to develop this alternative or must we continue the discussion on

> the cow conference for several more years and every year report on going

> cow abuse cases within our communistic structure?

 

I sense a degree of bitterness in the above words of the ISKCON minister of

cow protection.And I agree with him. How can the GBC tackle ISKCON´s many

problems wisely if they have no time to communicate and listen to their own

ministers?

 

"A leader should pick worthy men for his assembly as his advisors and

helpers to accomplish his various works. Then his rule will be prosperous,

for the prosperity of the kingdom depends solely on the men in his council

and in his other departments. Even the smallest function cannot be

successfully performed by one single man. How then can a state (or a

society) be well administered without the assisstance of competent ministers

and helpers?" (Matsya Purana, ch 215, text 2-3)

 

If the GBC appoint ministers but ignore what they have to say, then what is

the use of having ministries at all?

 

Nowadays so many devotees voice constructive criticism but are the GBC even

aware of it? I doubt it because at least on com you never hear them respond.

Maybe they ignore critical remarks because they consider it offensive. Maybe

they are simply too busy or maybe they want to avoid getting into endless

verbal battles culminating in mutual aparadha.I understand that.

Yes,sometimes critical remarks are born of envy but many times criticism is

simply a cry for change uttered by someone who sees grave fault or injustice

and is desperate to have it removed.

 

Was not Ramcandra eager to ascertain what was on the mind of His subjects?

Did not the kings of yore employ spies just to find out what the general

populace was up to? So should not the GBC be interested in finding out what

the general devotees are talking about them? If there is no ongoing dialogue

between GBC and general devotee populace, how can the GBC evaluate their own

performance and make sure their subjects are content? And how will we create

an ideal vedic society if a major portion of the citizens are not content

with their leaders?

 

"Oh king of the solar race, the beauty and prosperity of a leader always

lies in the contentment of his subjects. He should therefore act in such a

manner that the love of his subjects toward him is increased." (Lord Matsya

addresses Vaivasvata Manu in the Matsya Purana, ch.215, text 99).

 

My humble suggestion: Not that the GBC have to listen to each and every

irate critic on earth. Too many cooks spoil the broth, particularly if some

of them are simply envious. But there are plenty of level headed Vaishnavas

in this movement who are not sannyasis, gurus or GBC´s but still have

accurate perceptions of how to improve ISKCON´s performance. If the GBC go

out of their way to listen more to such intelligent and sincere men, the

whole society will prosper.

 

For starters, it should suffice to depute one or two competent devotees to

cruise various com conferences and collect all texts which voice suggestions

and constructive criticism of the GBC. These should be summarized in writing

and then sent to each and every GBC man some weeks before the annual

meetings. Then one or two days of meetings should be scheduled just for

discussing the issues raised. I guarantee that the GBC will be amazed at the

immense good that will come from this.

 

If the GBC are not interested in what is on the mind of the lower rank

devotees, what to speak of their ministers,ISKCON may eventually come to

grief like a man trying to cross the ocean in a boat of stone.

 

ys Anantarupa das

[Guest guest]

Haribol prabhus,

PAMHO AGTSP

 

"SUGGESTION: I should say humble suggestion. In the future it might be

good

if any change in management dealing with a project that has cows should have

to be approved by ISKCOWP. If there is any lack of committement, then

perhaps they should not be allowed to take over such a project. "

 

I would be in total agreement with this. As you note from M. Hare Krsna's

com that our own farm was mentioned. I have to point our firstly, the full

facts were not taken into considersation at the time, and the story, which

was is essence true, is more akin to what this devotee, Dvibhuja das, was

saying. It was due to ignorance and lack of steady dedication and individual

responsibility rather than willful neglect or indeed plans for murder.

Unfortunately due to political unheaval, anybody willing to 'take on' the

cows was welcomed, and this in fact was the problem. It led to the community

distancing themselves unknowingly from the problem rather than sorted it

sooner.

 

That's actually why devotees wanted us here in the first place, not for our

association or because they are crazy about us, but because we would take

care of the cows and they wouldn't have to deal with them or look for

somebody else to do it. Also they knew we'd grow something- anything. We

accept this, and will do our very best by Krsna's cows, we love them and

will take care of them, but eventually there will have to be some policy

governing ISKCON owned land which is enforceable irrespective of management

changes, transient devotees who promise to be the saviours of any given

project, or irrespective of circumstances. The LAW must be just that LAW and

within reason every farm should come up to that, even if circumstances

dictate over a period of time, but that should be the aim. I don't think

anyone knows any ISKCON laws here or at least the majority and with regard

to keeping them or upholding them, I don't know it that even carries much

weight. Here it has been a struggle as there were very few people even

trying to maintain Their Lordships on the altar, but I don't feel that cows

were ever prioristised. The best thing is for ISKCON owned properties and

farms to have to submit plans and have a reasonably stable base, i.e.

sufficient legally leased land or privately owned land by householders etc.

BEFORE ever embarking on any introduction of cows to their properties. Not

especially since the community can't be involved, but it puts a stronger

emphasis if householders have put down roots first. It seems that once

devotees get some grass under their feet, they say let's get some cows,

without thinking of the consequences. Having a temple full of brahmacaris,

unmarried ladies or grhasta couples is not enough. These people leave, go to

other places, etc. So farms should have stable bases before animals are

introduced. It's easier to leave a field of cabbages than a cow.

 

We are doing things backwards, it's like having children with no plans for

feeding, schooling or life-long training and care. No first we marry, then

provide facility and then think of starting a family, otherwise it's

irresponsible. These cows are Krsna's children, just like we are, and we

must approach it from this angle. So there are existing problems to be

fixed, but let's not start any more projects with cows unless we can

sanction that the above is in place.

ys

[Guest guest]

> Once a devotee asked

> Srila Prabhupada if we should farm communally or seperate and he replied

> that faming meant communally.

 

>

 

> In Vrndavan the cows were taken care of communally wern't they.

 

No. they were cared for in common, perhaps, but not communally. there was

private ownership.

 

>

>

> YS

> Dvibhuja das

 

I will respond to the rest of your post later, but would be very interested to

see if you can produce the actual quote above mentioned first.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hopefully, this practice of taking what amounts to a blood-money tax credit

at

> Saranagati has now ended. If it has not yet ended, Saranagati will be able

to

> see

> clearly that it is by no means alone in failure to meet minimun cow

protection

> standards.

 

Here is an opportunity for those in the cash economy to step up. It seems if

money

for fencing were forthcoming, then a good deal of land could be freed up for

protected cows. Farms with excess could send some there, and donors could

support

their care there, which would also create a job in a rural community for a

cowherd.

 

Just an idea, don't know if it is actually workable, but some concerned

administrator might consider checking into the possibility.

 

We have a ball park figure that a cow can be nicely maintained for $800 a year.

An

investment of $10,000 to 15,000 could generate that amount each year. Which

would

guarantuee the care of a cow in perpetuity.

 

Standing in front of Yamaraja. He looks at your karmic ledger, and rubs his

chin. On the negative side, whatever whatever. Done. Chiseled in stone,

but on

the positive side, something puzzling. Even though you stand in front of him,

having shed the mortal coil, your pious activities continue to ratchet

upwards,

as the income generated from your donation continues to benefit cows.

[Guest guest]

> [Text 2768428 from COM]

>

> >

> > Hopefully, this practice of taking what amounts to a blood-money tax

credit

> at

> > Saranagati has now ended. If it has not yet ended, Saranagati will be

able

> to

> > see

> > clearly that it is by no means alone in failure to meet minimun cow

> protection

> > standards.

>

> Here is an opportunity for those in the cash economy to step up. It seems

if

> money

> for fencing were forthcoming, then a good deal of land could be freed up

for

> protected cows. Farms with excess could send some there, and donors

could

> support

> their care there, which would also create a job in a rural community for

a

> cowherd.

>

> Just an idea, don't know if it is actually workable, but some concerned

> administrator might consider checking into the possibility.

>

> We have a ball park figure that a cow can be nicely maintained for $800 a

year.

> An

> investment of $10,000 to 15,000 could generate that amount each year.

Which

> would

> guarantuee the care of a cow in perpetuity.

>

> Standing in front of Yamaraja. He looks at your karmic ledger, and rubs

his

> chin. On the negative side, whatever whatever. Done. Chiseled in

stone,

> but on

> the positive side, something puzzling. Even though you stand in front of

him,

> having shed the mortal coil, your pious activities continue to ratchet

> upwards,

> as the income generated from your donation continues to benefit cows.

>

Or, even the first one year's blood money could have been used to buy the

fencing and the problem would have been solved. Instead the money was used

for what? And for how many years?

[Guest guest]

"COM: Ananda Maya (dd) SDG (Derrylin - Northern Ireland)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2768085 from COM]

>

> Haribol prabhus,

> PAMHO AGTSP

>

> Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

> "Hopefully, this practice of taking what amounts to a blood-money tax credit

> at

> Saranagati has now ended."

>

> Is there any difference in this blood money and ISKCON using the money if

> recupped from this Drumila person? Should we not see it as the same?

 

Yes. It is completely different -- if properly applied.

 

The money that Drumila made from arranging for the sale of the cows should be

returned to the cows in some form -- like a payment of damages for their

sufferings.

 

It should be used for the care of the remaining cows -- veterinary care, feed,

compensating cow herds, etc.

 

It is quite different because it is what amounts to a payment of damages for

abuse to the cows.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

"COM: Ananda Maya (dd) SDG (Derrylin - Northern Ireland)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2768085 from COM]

>

> Haribol prabhus,

> PAMHO AGTSP

>

> Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

> "Hopefully, this practice of taking what amounts to a blood-money tax credit

> at

> Saranagati has now ended."

>

> Is there any difference in this blood money and ISKCON using the money if

> recupped from this Drumila person? Should we not see it as the same?

 

1. As I mentioned in the previous note, the money should be used to compensate

the cow family for the damages done to them -- e.g. to provide veterinary care,

housing improvement, feed, cow herd care, fencing, etc. It is a payment of

damages to the cows.

 

2. In the case of Saranagati, as far as I can understand, the $10,000 per year

was never used to advance the cause of cow protection in any way. For example,

the prime problem was lack of good fencing to keep out the neighbors beef

cattle. So just think, although fencing can be expensive, if I spent $10,000

per year on putting up fencing, after ten years, I might even have 5 miles of

fencing by now. But since there was no attempt to remedy the problem in this

way, it appears that the main purpose of taking the tax credit was not to

further the cause of cow protection nor to protect Srila Prabhupada's land from

being used to promote cow slaughter.

 

But the important point, as I say, is that hopefully the practice has stopped

by

this time. And, if not, Saranagati devotees should take heart in the fact that

many communities in ISKCON are implicated with problems of cow abuse. Take

heart, chant Hare Krsna, make some kind of public apology, and rectify the

situation. Thus you avoid accumulating further inauspicious karma. Again,

hopefully the situation is already rectified, only the public apology is

lacking.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

 

 

your servant,

[Guest guest]

It was a letter that was written many years ago fo course. I do remeber it

though because we were a developing farm community and we wanted to know

things such as whether a devotee should farm seperately or work together.

My limited understanding is that private ownership is not wrong by any

means, but that is not the panacea in the case of cow protection. The

problems of cow protection is mainly increasing cows beyond our capacity to

maintain them properly. Here at New Talavan we have received cows from

Murari twice due to their problems maintaining them. They were delivered in

the middle of the night by some devotees who felt we should take them. Then

they had a couple of cows then some 10 or 15 years later here they come

again. This time after some householder sent them to slaughter. Then we

have also received cows from Oklahoma farm when they closed down. Also a

couple here and ther from various devotees who couldn't maintain them. So

New Talavan is something like a shelter for cows that would have otherwise

been slaughtered.

The problem with cow protection is that it is not profitable enough for

most people. Once the heard gets big it is all just discussion anyway. It

will be many years before the cowherd here and at NV will become manageble

enough that there could be some possiblility of profit for some Grhasta.

Now we spend most of our energy just maintaining a large herd that we don't

get any use out of. Of course this can change and will eventualy by the

grace of the Lord, but to say that cow protection should be privatized now

is simply some misunderstanding about the reality. Who will take hundreds

of cows and milk ten of them. I am sure that would take a few good milkers

and then when they have calves bring them back to the temple and say here

take them or they will have to slaughter, such as I Have experience of. So

philosphy is one thing, practicality is another.

 

YS

Dvibhuja Das

 

COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)

<Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net <laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection and

related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development

<Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Wednesday, November 10, 1999 5:00 AM

Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON

 

 

>[Text 2768350 from COM]

>

>> Once a devotee asked

>> Srila Prabhupada if we should farm communally or seperate and he replied

>> that faming meant communally.

>

>>

>

>> In Vrndavan the cows were taken care of communally wern't they.

>

>No. they were cared for in common, perhaps, but not communally. there

was

>private ownership.

>

>>

>>

>> YS

>> Dvibhuja das

>

>I will respond to the rest of your post later, but would be very

interested to

>see if you can produce the actual quote above mentioned first.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dvibhuja dasa

Ø Once a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada if we should farm communally or

seperate and he replied that faming meant communally.

 

I believe this is the quote he is referring to, from conversations with

devotees on August 1, 1975 in New Talavan.

 

Nityänanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce

the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food

independently?

Prabhupäda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Commu nity means

work everything for the community.

Devotee: Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the

cows, some men… They can (indistinct) responsible.

Prabhupäda: No, it is service (?).

 

Dvibhuja was present, but like most of us having poor fund of memory has

forgotten - we are lucky that we have Vedabase.

Ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/10/99 9:40:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, ISCOWP (AT) bbt (DOT) se

writes:

 

<< And what about the 2 cows and 1 bull sold for breeding? It is the

Ministry's recommendation that these animals be sought after and brought

back to Murari.

We pray they have not been slaughtered yet.

>>

 

I applaud the ISCOWP for creating a responsible system of accounting for our

mother cows. Perhaps the cows could be given birth certificates as well as

death certificates, to help protect their peaceful existence and help us be

accountable for them.

 

When we take on responsibility for a cow or any animal, that responsibility

is a lifetime commitment for that animal's natural life. That animal becomes

a member of the family. Family members are not traded in for better stock.

We are to learn to unconditionally love and support them.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught us that if a cow lives a natural life duration the

next birth that jiva would take birth in the human form. To prevent the

living entities chance to become human and have the opportunity of solving

the riddle of samsara though Krishna consciousness is the greatest violence.

Our duty as Vaisnavas is to facilitate Krishna consciousness in this human

form.

 

Societies that do not give protection to women and children, also abuse

animals. The next segment of the population to get abused are old men. When

will the abuse end? We are all in-line for abuse sooner are later, if we

don't stop it now.

 

YS, Kusha devi dasi

[Guest guest]

> We have had neglect. Honestly if you

> were to see our cow report you'd know that we're not blind about this, and

> we work bloody hard all day, we still have problems! It boils down to damage

> control and gradually upgrading an inherited problem in a responsible and

> sustainable way. We are well below the standards, I can admit that and I am

> a cowherder

 

I totally hear this. I could cut and paste this for New Vrindaban. Most

devotees don't care anything about cows except to satisfy tongue with the milk,

a few making lots of sacrificies to maintain barely minimal conditionsd, and

the passers through criticizing the few for not having the higher standard when

it is the apathy of the many that created the situation. The simplistic

looking

for a magic bullet to solve the problems instead of the difficult committements

to attain true standards.

 

 

 

 

>

> Should there not be a ban imposed on the breeding and enforced as there

> seems little point in GBC passing laws such as the cow protection one, if

> nobody takes any notice of them?

> ys

 

There are very exacting and prohibitive preconditions to breeding contained in

the GBC resolution, meant to prevent future such occurences. Enforcement is

problematic, but at least the knowledge is there.

 

The point of the Standards were so anyone could have some systematic idea of

what should be going on, so the old excuse "We didn't know!" is no longer

acceptable.

[Guest guest]

> Or, even the first one year's blood money could have been used to buy the

> fencing and the problem would have been solved. Instead the money was used

> for what? And for how many years?

 

I was going to make the same point. How much does 5 miles of fencing cost.

Surely $11,000 would cover it?

 

YS

[Guest guest]

High tensile fencing installed by a professional runs about $1 US @ foot plus

$150 US per brace station. The number of brace stations is determined by the

number of turns and gates. For sake of discussion, say 10 stations per mile.

One mile would thus be around $6800 US. Assuming the $10,000 was Canadian

currency, it still seems possible to do 1 mile per year. Depending on shape,

but with a square enclosing the most possible space, that is about 40 acres

by

rough calculation. A four year plan enclosing a space could end up with a

square with a perimeter of 4 miles of fence totaling 640 acres.

 

Obviously there are a lot of variables, so none of this should be taken as

other

than ballparking.

 

"COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2770737 from COM]

>

> > Or, even the first one year's blood money could have been used to buy the

> > fencing and the problem would have been solved. Instead the money was used

> > for what? And for how many years?

>

> I was going to make the same point. How much does 5 miles of fencing cost.

> Surely $11,000 would cover it?

>

> YS

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Rohita (Dasa) ACBSP (New Talavan MS - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2769448 from COM]

>

> Dvibhuja dasa

> Ø Once a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada if we should farm communally

or

> seperate and he replied that faming meant communally.

>

> I believe this is the quote he is referring to, from conversations with

> devotees on August 1, 1975 in New Talavan.

>

> Nityänanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce

> the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food

> independently?

> Prabhupäda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Commu nity

means

> work everything for the community.

> Devotee: Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the

> cows, some menI They can (indistinct) responsible.

> Prabhupäda: No, it is service (?).

 

There is a distinct difference between commuinty and communally. Communally is

a

function of common ownership. Community is a function of common goals.

 

For instance, it is not necessary that every family owns there own apple

press.

The time it takes to set it up and clean it, for a small amount of apples or

grapes, may be prohibitive, but if I could take my juice apples to someone

who

is going to be juicing all day, and give a portion of the juice in exchange,

my

time is better utilised.

 

The extra juice the juice man makes he can trade to someone who specialized in

drying tomatoes, etc. That seems to be what Srila Prabhupada is saying. In

communal living, none wants to prune the trees, compost them, keep the grass

down, pick the apples or press them. But they will all show up to drink the

juice.

 

Communism doesn't work.

 

The communal aspect of doing things may have some limited application within a

larger community, but doesn't work as the dominant way of organization.

Ownership turns sand into gold, and vice versa. I am currently observing the

systematic dismantling and destruction of New Vrindaban by the leadership that

still functions on a communal paradigm. The 70s are over guys, Trotsky and

Che

are dead.