Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 >These guys must have >something better to concern themselves with than the structure of >other persons >sexlife..... It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 >>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< << It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 >>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< << It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 11:13 PM 12/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >[Text 2853455 from COM] > >>>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the >structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< > ><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 11:13 PM 12/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >[Text 2853455 from COM] > >>>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the >structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< > ><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 In a message dated 12/13/1999 10:00:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Babhru.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: << >>>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the >structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< > ><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. >> It IS. Well, not exacatly, but I would challenge any one of them to go into a therapists office and find out! YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 In a message dated 12/13/1999 10:00:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, Babhru.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: << >>>>These guys must have something better to concern themselves with than the >structure of other persons sexlife.....<<<< > ><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. >> It IS. Well, not exacatly, but I would challenge any one of them to go into a therapists office and find out! YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 > >>Prtha wrote: > >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Good caution, although I'm sure that's not what Prtha meant. But it never hurts to be careful. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 > >>Prtha wrote: > >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Good caution, although I'm sure that's not what Prtha meant. But it never hurts to be careful. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 >><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >> >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Babhru Prabhu wrote: >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" (ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. Ys, Sdd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 >><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >> >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. Babhru Prabhu wrote: >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" (ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. Ys, Sdd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 08:28 AM 12/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >[Text 2855097 from COM] > >> >>Prtha wrote: >> >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > > >> >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > > >Good caution, although I'm sure that's not what Prtha meant. But it >never hurts to be careful. Guess I should have included a little winkie thing, because I was half teasing. Bd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 08:28 AM 12/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >[Text 2855097 from COM] > >> >>Prtha wrote: >> >>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > > >> >Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > > >Good caution, although I'm sure that's not what Prtha meant. But it >never hurts to be careful. Guess I should have included a little winkie thing, because I was half teasing. Bd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 01:08 PM 12/13/99 -0500, Sita Devi Dasi wrote: >[Text 2855349 from COM] > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >>> >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health problems. I wonder, though, about the efficacy of diagnosing someone by their writing alone. Let's also be frank enough to admit that Mahavegavati's writing voice is interesting enough to at least raise questions about some of the charges she brings. (Ever read Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper"? My students hate that story.) Bd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 1999 At 01:08 PM 12/13/99 -0500, Sita Devi Dasi wrote: >[Text 2855349 from COM] > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >>> >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health problems. I wonder, though, about the efficacy of diagnosing someone by their writing alone. Let's also be frank enough to admit that Mahavegavati's writing voice is interesting enough to at least raise questions about some of the charges she brings. (Ever read Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper"? My students hate that story.) Bd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 >[Text 2855349 from COM] > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >>> >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. -------------- >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. ----------------- <<And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health problems. I wonder, though, about the efficacy of diagnosing someone by their writing alone. Let's also be frank enough to admit that Mahavegavati's writing voice is interesting enough to at least raise questions about some of the charges she brings. (Ever read Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper"? My students hate that story.) Bd>> _____________ I am not going to get into the Mahavegavati thing or your husband, though I am sorry if any difficult has come your way, only I was talking about GHQ men who can't stop thinking and talking about women and are on a *mission* about women, so lets not change the subject. I just want to point out that they were my focus and not anyone else. I do not claim to know anything about anyone else. I have no problem with myself or other devotees using words like "seem" or "suspect" because no one is God, no one really knows everything all the time. It does not mean that because we do not *know,* we should therefore sit back and pretend someone is mentally healthy when we see a problem simply because we are not a professional. (And I am not saying you are indicating that.) If we did that, than it would be more difficult to suspect, for example, some of the child molesters that were later prosecuted. They would not have been prosecuted and therefore caught because we only thought they *seemed* to have a weakness in the area of molestation, it only *appeared* that way to us, therefore we could not speak about it, therefore it would not be investigated. Of course, I am not giving a diagnoses so that should not be applied to me. I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist (or a Ph.D.) to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about women, controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are even devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such misunderstood philosophies, that they have abused their wife. So let us not be made afraid to speak out and say someone *might* have a psychological problem when we see text after text of obsessions, when we see an entire conference created dedicated to the destruction of women. Besides, it is better to say they might have a physiological problem, otherwise we will simply have to call 40/50 year old men who want to marry 16 year old virgin girls, and many of them, perverts! If it is psychological, they can get help. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 >[Text 2855349 from COM] > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> >>> >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. -------------- >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. ----------------- <<And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health problems. I wonder, though, about the efficacy of diagnosing someone by their writing alone. Let's also be frank enough to admit that Mahavegavati's writing voice is interesting enough to at least raise questions about some of the charges she brings. (Ever read Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper"? My students hate that story.) Bd>> _____________ I am not going to get into the Mahavegavati thing or your husband, though I am sorry if any difficult has come your way, only I was talking about GHQ men who can't stop thinking and talking about women and are on a *mission* about women, so lets not change the subject. I just want to point out that they were my focus and not anyone else. I do not claim to know anything about anyone else. I have no problem with myself or other devotees using words like "seem" or "suspect" because no one is God, no one really knows everything all the time. It does not mean that because we do not *know,* we should therefore sit back and pretend someone is mentally healthy when we see a problem simply because we are not a professional. (And I am not saying you are indicating that.) If we did that, than it would be more difficult to suspect, for example, some of the child molesters that were later prosecuted. They would not have been prosecuted and therefore caught because we only thought they *seemed* to have a weakness in the area of molestation, it only *appeared* that way to us, therefore we could not speak about it, therefore it would not be investigated. Of course, I am not giving a diagnoses so that should not be applied to me. I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist (or a Ph.D.) to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about women, controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are even devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such misunderstood philosophies, that they have abused their wife. So let us not be made afraid to speak out and say someone *might* have a psychological problem when we see text after text of obsessions, when we see an entire conference created dedicated to the destruction of women. Besides, it is better to say they might have a physiological problem, otherwise we will simply have to call 40/50 year old men who want to marry 16 year old virgin girls, and many of them, perverts! If it is psychological, they can get help. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 At 12:57 PM 12/14/99 -0500, Parijata2 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: >[Text 2857932 from COM] > > >[Text 2855349 from COM] > > > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >>> > >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > > > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > > > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > -------------- > >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" > >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me > >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the > >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen > >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. > ----------------- > <<And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. > Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health > problems. <snip> >I have no problem with myself or other devotees using words like "seem" or >"suspect" because no one is God, no one really knows everything all the time. >It does not mean that because we do not *know,* we should therefore sit back >and pretend someone is mentally healthy when we see a problem simply because >we are not a professional. <snip> I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist >(or a Ph.D.) to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about >women, controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are >even devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such >misunderstood philosophies, that they have abused their wife. So let us not >be made afraid to speak out and say someone *might* have a psychological >problem when we see text after text of obsessions, when we see an entire >conference created dedicated to the destruction of women. Besides, it is >better to say they might have a physiological problem, otherwise we will >simply have to call 40/50 year old men who want to marry 16 year old virgin >girls, and many of them, perverts! If it is psychological, they can get help. > As the writer who inadvertently opened this strand of the thread, I apologize to all members of all conferences subjected to this particular exchange. I actually only responded because Prtha used what I believe to be a clinical term. I should have done so privately, and included one of those winkie emoticons because it was meant half teasingly. I agree that devotees shouldn't be cowed into fear of expressing their opinions. My real concern is that when we write, we write deliberately (by that I mean with careful forethought) and that we conduct our conversations in a civil manner. It also seems to me that many participants have a lot of time on their hands to sit at a keyboard and fire off their postings. It may be that I'm just jealous that I have to work so hard just to make a living, but I find myself wondering how the face of the sankirtan movement--and the world--might change if some of us took a few of those hours at the keyboard and went out to find some way to relieve the suffering of those who haven't yet recieved the mercy of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda. While I'm at it, let me go on record as agreeing that I find it distasteful to contemplate Gaudiya vaishnava men in their 40's and 50's looking for young virgin wives to "protect." That's just plain old material sex desire, no matter what cultural facade you use to dress it up. Men our age should be planning how to set an example of withdrawing from this business and using the time and energy we have to cultivate and share with everyone pure chanting of the holy name. That's the essence--the heart--of this movement. Other things are adjuncts, applied under divine guidance according to time, place, and circumstance. Your servant, Babhru das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 At 12:57 PM 12/14/99 -0500, Parijata2 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: >[Text 2857932 from COM] > > >[Text 2855349 from COM] > > > >>><< It doesn't seem like it. In fact, they seem positively obsessed by > >>> the real and imagined sex lives of other devotees. Sad, isn't it? >> > >>> > >>>Exactly. I strongly suspect that they have sexual addictions. > > > >Babhru Prabhu wrote: > > > >>Careful--sounds like a diagnosis. > -------------- > >Yes and it's a ridiculous and unfounded one. A more obvious "diagnosis" > >(ie. not disguised by words like "seem" or "suspect") was given to me > >privately about my husband. It was written by an anyonymous person with the > >same IP address as Maria Ekstrand. Ms. Ekstrand wrote to more than a dozen > >devotees giving a "diagnosis" that Mahavegavati dd has mental problems. > ----------------- > <<And Babhru feels tempted to suggest that, as a clinical psychologist, Dr. > Ekstrand may be better suited for diagnosing emotional and mental health > problems. <snip> >I have no problem with myself or other devotees using words like "seem" or >"suspect" because no one is God, no one really knows everything all the time. >It does not mean that because we do not *know,* we should therefore sit back >and pretend someone is mentally healthy when we see a problem simply because >we are not a professional. <snip> I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist >(or a Ph.D.) to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about >women, controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are >even devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such >misunderstood philosophies, that they have abused their wife. So let us not >be made afraid to speak out and say someone *might* have a psychological >problem when we see text after text of obsessions, when we see an entire >conference created dedicated to the destruction of women. Besides, it is >better to say they might have a physiological problem, otherwise we will >simply have to call 40/50 year old men who want to marry 16 year old virgin >girls, and many of them, perverts! If it is psychological, they can get help. > As the writer who inadvertently opened this strand of the thread, I apologize to all members of all conferences subjected to this particular exchange. I actually only responded because Prtha used what I believe to be a clinical term. I should have done so privately, and included one of those winkie emoticons because it was meant half teasingly. I agree that devotees shouldn't be cowed into fear of expressing their opinions. My real concern is that when we write, we write deliberately (by that I mean with careful forethought) and that we conduct our conversations in a civil manner. It also seems to me that many participants have a lot of time on their hands to sit at a keyboard and fire off their postings. It may be that I'm just jealous that I have to work so hard just to make a living, but I find myself wondering how the face of the sankirtan movement--and the world--might change if some of us took a few of those hours at the keyboard and went out to find some way to relieve the suffering of those who haven't yet recieved the mercy of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda. While I'm at it, let me go on record as agreeing that I find it distasteful to contemplate Gaudiya vaishnava men in their 40's and 50's looking for young virgin wives to "protect." That's just plain old material sex desire, no matter what cultural facade you use to dress it up. Men our age should be planning how to set an example of withdrawing from this business and using the time and energy we have to cultivate and share with everyone pure chanting of the holy name. That's the essence--the heart--of this movement. Other things are adjuncts, applied under divine guidance according to time, place, and circumstance. Your servant, Babhru das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 > I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist (or a Ph.D.) > to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about women, > controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are even > devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such misunderstood > philosophies, What wonders me the most, is that there are also so many woman who are satisfied with being called infiriour to man, when actually it should mean that they are just different, materially speaking. A man may not get children but instead he is "expert" in doing other things better, due to having a male body, is he therefore infiriour to woman - if you put it the other way around, bad logic in my opinion. This kind of thinking could easyly be misunderstood but also used by man to subdue and control woman by force on the basis of this misunderstood phyilosophy (see what happens in some muslim countries) - kind like what it,s hapening in the indian caste system. You cannot do this because you are a sudra, first be reborn in a higher caste than it would be Ok. If that is what Prabhupada actualy wanted in regard to woman, I doubt this. Prabhupada was a very intelligent man who knew what he was speaking but one might not always be able to understand what he said properly acording to ones conditioning and ones false approach on what he might have said. Ys, Harsi das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 > I am simply saying that it does not take a rocket scientist (or a Ph.D.) > to recognize an obsession when men are constantly talking about women, > controlling women, subduing women, oppressing women, and there are even > devotees who have given reports of some men who follow such misunderstood > philosophies, What wonders me the most, is that there are also so many woman who are satisfied with being called infiriour to man, when actually it should mean that they are just different, materially speaking. A man may not get children but instead he is "expert" in doing other things better, due to having a male body, is he therefore infiriour to woman - if you put it the other way around, bad logic in my opinion. This kind of thinking could easyly be misunderstood but also used by man to subdue and control woman by force on the basis of this misunderstood phyilosophy (see what happens in some muslim countries) - kind like what it,s hapening in the indian caste system. You cannot do this because you are a sudra, first be reborn in a higher caste than it would be Ok. If that is what Prabhupada actualy wanted in regard to woman, I doubt this. Prabhupada was a very intelligent man who knew what he was speaking but one might not always be able to understand what he said properly acording to ones conditioning and ones false approach on what he might have said. Ys, Harsi das Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 At 10:55 -0800 12/14/1999, COM: Babhru (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA) wrote: >I agree that devotees >shouldn't be cowed into fear of expressing their opinions. My real concern >is that when we write, we write deliberately (by that I mean with careful >forethought) and that we conduct our conversations in a civil manner. Good caution. I know I need to be reminded of this from time to time. Thank you. >While I'm at it, let me go on record as agreeing that I find it distasteful >to contemplate Gaudiya vaishnava men in their 40's and 50's looking for >young virgin wives to "protect." That's just plain old material sex desire, >no matter what cultural facade you use to dress it up. I couldn't agree more. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 14, 1999 At 10:55 -0800 12/14/1999, COM: Babhru (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA) wrote: >I agree that devotees >shouldn't be cowed into fear of expressing their opinions. My real concern >is that when we write, we write deliberately (by that I mean with careful >forethought) and that we conduct our conversations in a civil manner. Good caution. I know I need to be reminded of this from time to time. Thank you. >While I'm at it, let me go on record as agreeing that I find it distasteful >to contemplate Gaudiya vaishnava men in their 40's and 50's looking for >young virgin wives to "protect." That's just plain old material sex desire, >no matter what cultural facade you use to dress it up. I couldn't agree more. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
