2nd house Jup in various roles--Vijaydas Pradeep ji,Dual nature of Guru

[Guest guest]

Hello Friend,

 

Self has never contested position of Guru as lagna lord in lagna.

 

Grandfather of self who was world reknowned authority on samaveda and

an accomplished astrologer had Guru in Lagna in Meena rasi.

He was a living sanyasi after being widowed very early in life.

 

Please read JATAKALANKAR sloka which is as follows.

 

Angadhish swagehe, Budha,Guru Kavi bhi sanyute kendragova,

Swiye , Tunge, swamitre yadi shubhavavane: Vikshita satwa rupa.

Syanunna punyashila sakala janamata sarva sampannidhanam.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> Dear Shri Tatwam Asi ji

>

> You have more experience than me and for the same reason i may not

> counter your claims/knowledge/experiments.

>

> But from my own experience, i can give you input on Dhanu Rashi and

> Guru ,if it helps or adds to your experiments with Guru.

> I have Guru placed alone in Lagna,Dhanus in moola nakshathra.I have

> to say Guru has been a big blessing for me.Guru has given me

> abundant luck, whenever i was in need.Whatever Guru gives, needs to

> to be distributed,and i should say, distribution will lead towards

> further inflow.I agree totally with Zoran Ji and Lakshmi ji on this

> matter.

> Now similar to what ASH ji has mentioned,Guru gives with less effort

> complimented by luck, while Saturn gives with effort and

> difficulties.And difficulties in other words are nothing but TRUTH

> and reminds one about the realities.Rest of the time we are under

the

> influence of Maaya.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

> vedic astrology, "nameisego"

<nameisego>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Lakshmiji,

> > True ....all planets show dual nature.

> > But most of you do not want to give any negetive character to

> Guru's

> > role as a lier, spoiler of a bhava, pain giver , manipulator

> > hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind, plagiarist and egoist .

> > People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather arguements giving

> > different reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru but

> are

> > not prepared to accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the bhava

> > where he sits.

> > Tatvam-Asi

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > >

> > > Thanks for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter as

> 6th

> > lord (moolatrikona) does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his job

> in

> > the chart), but if the 2nd lord sun and moon were stronger and

> Venus

> > dignified, the scenario would have been different.

> > >

> > > Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of Jupiter.

> If

> > we look deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact there

> are

> > lot of differences between the same Jupiter of cancer,

> Sagittarius,

> > Pisces and Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change

> > according to the tattwa of Rasi, functionality of house etc etc.

> So

> > is the case with all the other planets too.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste

> > >

> > > Yes the houses which you have mentioned do need to be

> > considered.But

> > > taking into consideration of sthala, Kaala & Saaahacharya ,in a

> > > western society, relationships are more or less like family

> > matters.

> > > Thus they can very well fall under second house matters,too.

> > Anyways

> > > she had multiple marriages, even if we want to ignore affairs.

> > >

> > > Looking at her 4th house, one could imagine about her mana

> sukha.

> > > Especially as Sun is there and more so due to his

debilitation.I

> am

> > > not ruling out the role sun has played here.But there is a

> > > parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well. Jupiter is not

very

> > > specific about all the concerned matters, related to his house

> of

> > > residence. Jupiter in my opinion is a planet behaving in a very

> > > broad manner - broad advises, broad knowledge, broad outlook,

> > > benevolent, magnanimous etc. If you observe people with high

> > > jupiterian influence ,you may find this.While Venus is the

> > > reverse,he is very particular about the finer aspects ,whether

> it

> > > is arts,love,or anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look

certain

> > > aspects,which he considers as insignificant, thereby leading to

> > > Bhrashta(as learned members have pointed out).

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > When you are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th

> house

> > > also? And the 3rd since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama

> trikona?

> > > Why it can't be the influence of weak 11 th lord Venus placed

> in

> > > 2nd house (it is also the house of attraction) indicative of

> such

> > > behaviour and Jupiter as the expansive planet & the lord of

> > shadripu

> > > (6th house) could have encouraged "vriddhi" !! And, since Venus

> is

> > > also the 4th lord & moon is also involved (the two planets

> > connected

> > > with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her family suffered.

> > > >

> > > > By the way, where is her Sun?

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > > Dear Ms.Reema

> > > >

> > > > One thing that needs to be observed at first glance ,from

> Julias

> > > > chart is the planets in 2nd house. The simplest way to get a

> > > general

> > > > overview of a chart w.r to finance,is to look for a link

> between

> > > > lakshmisthanas & inflow ,outflow houses.When lagna is

involved

> > the

> > > > effects are pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).

> > > > In her case 11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and lagna lord

> moon

> > > are

> > > > placed in 2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of 9th lord

> > > > (jupiter) and aspected by him.A connection between all money

> > > > houses.Thus this simple technique, outlines the presence of

an

> > > > inherent big promise.(the strength of these have to be

> > reconfirmed

> > > > with amsha positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of inflow

> and

> > > > balance houses etc).

> > > >

> > > > Now coming to family and affairs - She had relationships

> (publicly

> > > > known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple times.Do we

> > need

> > > a

> > > > better proof regarding one of the indications being

> harmed?.Since

> > > > money indications were strong otherwise,family matters

> suffered.

> > > >

> > > > This does not mean Guru is a malefic or a harmer,rather one

> may

> > > > storm their brains and understand what is the nature of Guru

> and

> > > how

> > > > he behaves.Various posts so far from learned members holds

the

> > > > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the greatest benefic,but

> > benefit

> > > > for what/whom is to observed from case to case.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh"

> > > > <reema_sriganesh> wrote:

> > > > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was referring

to

> in

> > > my

> > > > > original email.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) My mother

> > > > >

> > > > > 03/18/1946

> > > > > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 75E06, 23N18

> > > > >

> > > > > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and

respect

> > her

> > > > the

> > > > > most in life.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Julia Roberts

> > > > >

> > > > > 10/28/1967

> > > > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 84W23, 33N44

> > > > >

> > > > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her

> family

> > > > > background, although, I believe she's had multiple

marriages.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Dhirubhai Ambani

> > > > >

> > > > > 12/28/1932

> > > > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 70E26, 20N53

> > > > >

> > > > > He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard

all

> > his

> > > > life

> > > > > and had a good social standing.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) Donald Trump

> > > > >

> > > > > 6/14/1946

> > > > > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 73W52, 40N43

> > > > >

> > > > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations

with

> > his

> > > > > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money

> from

> > > him

> > > > as

> > > > > part of their divorce settlements)

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) John Kerry

> > > > >

> > > > > 12/11/1943

> > > > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 104W59, 39N44

> > > > >

> > > > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful

> > > career

> > > > > throughout in politics and a good social standing.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6) Ralph Nader

> > > > >

> > > > > 02/27/1934

> > > > > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 73W4, 41N55

> > > > >

> > > > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout

> his

> > > > life

> > > > > he has been a successful activist/lawyer against

> corporations

> > > that

> > > > > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original

> mail,

> > > I

> > > > did

> > > > > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein

> vakri

> > > > Guru

> > > > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa

> back

> > to

> > > > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the

> > > > significations

> > > > > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he

is

> a

> > > > very

> > > > > private person, he publicly credits his father

for "sparking

> > his

> > > > > interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from

> > Lebanon

> > > > to

> > > > > the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to

> > > respect

> > > > > their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to

> > > assume

> > > > his

> > > > > relationship with father (good or bad), without further

> details.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7) Sachin Tendulkar

> > > > >

> > > > > 04/24/1973

> > > > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 72E50, 18N58

> > > > >

> > > > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids

(son

> > and

> > > a

> > > > > daughter).

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the

> requisite

> > > > > details. Please let me know if you need any further

> information

> > > on

> > > > > the life of the above natives.

> > > > >

> > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all.

> > > > > Reema.

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <boxdel>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Reema,

> > > > > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief

> life

> > > > > sketch of

> > > > > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the

> Bhava

> > > Guru

> > > > > > occupies damaged? This information would certainly help

> look

> > > at

> > > > the

> > > > > > dictum in right perspective.

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > reema_sriganesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste everyone,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula

> have

> > > > given

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru

> > > > (conjoined

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the

> > native

> > > > is a

> > > > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is

in

> > > kanya

> > > > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist.

> I

> > > have

> > > > a

> > > > > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in

2nd

> > > house

> > > > and

> > > > > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where

> > Guru

> > > > is in

> > > > > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently

> stands

> > > a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United

States.

> I

> > > > have a

> > > > > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4

times.

> I

> > > > have a

> > > > > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara

> in

> > > 5th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and

> > > daughter).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the

> charts

> > in

> > > > our

> > > > > > > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's

> > > > occupation

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in

> the

> > > > > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the

theory

> of

> > > > Guru

> > > > > > > spoiling the occupied bhava.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge

> > further

> > > > > > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he

> > > occupies,

> > > > > before

> > > > > > > coming to any conclusions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,

> > > > > > > Reema.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted

> > > lines

> > > > were

> > > > > > > taken?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not

> > really

> > > > > comment

> > > > > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author,

Parasara

> > > often

> > > > > thinks

> > > > > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my

> > > > admiration

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound

ways

> to

> > > > > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather

> than

> > > as

> > > > a

> > > > > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the

> > > > powerful

> > > > > > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana

> > > > sthana) on

> > > > > > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled

> > > times

> > > > as

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted

venus

> > > (4th

> > > > &

> > > > > 11th

> > > > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this

> > > information,

> > > > and

> > > > > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing

on

> > > > Jupiter

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda

> > > vidya

> > > > or

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than

> ourselves,

> > > our

> > > > > petty

> > > > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is

> > > > revealed

> > > > > to us

> > > > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to

> > look

> > > > at

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our

> > best

> > > > not

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me,

> Sir,

> > > > > honestly

> > > > > > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature,

limit

> > > > yourself

> > > > > > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for

evaluating

> a

> > > > chart?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My

> tentative

> > > > feeling

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries

lagna,

> > > with

> > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun

> in

> > > > > cancer,

> > > > > > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along

> with

> > > > saturn.

> > > > > > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be

> fun

> > > to

> > > > > > > discuss it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone

> > else

> > > > had,

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > would like to see them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath

> ||

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.

> > > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of

Guru

> in

> > > > Lagna,

> > > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth

tested

> > > Satwa

> > > > of

> > > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

> Guru

> > > > killed

> > > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest."

It

> > > > further

> > > > > says

> > > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru

> in

> > > > 2nd,

> > > > > King

> > > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

> account

> > > of

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife

> on

> > > > > account of

> > > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non

eatables

> > > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Sarajit

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > PNRazdan

> > > > > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology

> > > > > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM

> > > > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in

> > > various

> > > > > roles--

> > > > > > > to Chandraji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of

> Narada

> > > in

> > > > > Ghatika

> > > > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not

> > Brahma)

> > > in

> > > > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of

Bhava

> > > Pada

> > > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects

of

> > > Pada

> > > > as

> > > > > told

> > > > > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions

> > > opinion

> > > > of

> > > > > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great

Sage

> > has

> > > in

> > > > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in

> one

> > or

> > > > > other of

> > > > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage

> > > > Parashara

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of

> that

> > > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions

> of

> > > many

> > > > > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told

> > what

> > > > had

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing

> disrespect

> > > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to

> other

> > > > Rishis

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > Acharyas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of

> the

> > > > shlokas

> > > > > > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in

> which

> > > the

> > > > > > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and

> > Chamatkaar

> > > > > > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the

> > > shlokas

> > > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read

Chamatkar

> > > > > Chintamani

> > > > > > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least

> one

> > > > > indication

> > > > > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also

> mentions

> > a

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > from Purana which says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of

Guru

> in

> > > > Lagna,

> > > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth

tested

> > > Satwa

> > > > of

> > > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

> Guru

> > > > killed

> > > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest."

It

> > > > further

> > > > > says

> > > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru

> in

> > > > 2nd,

> > > > > King

> > > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

> account

> > > of

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife

> on

> > > > > account of

> > > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non

eatables

> > > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments

but

> > > would

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > to mention here that the group is formed with an

> intention

> > of

> > > > > > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do

> not

> > > > >

> > > > > > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science

> not

> > > open

> > > > to

> > > > > > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my

> > > reasoning.

> > > > > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma

> > himself

> > > > which

> > > > > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his

> father

> > > the

> > > > > great

> > > > > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your

> > shaloka

> > > > > quoting

> > > > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only

> one

> > > sage-

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would

be

> > > like

> > > > > showing

> > > > > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going

> to

> > > > serve

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of

the

> > > > shalok

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is

> something

> > > > > casually

> > > > > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance.

> You

> > > > seem

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this

> > group

> > > > > wanting

> > > > > > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at.

> But

> > I

> > > > dont

> > > > > > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion

> where

> > > an

> > > > > > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without

> reservations.

> > > Or

> > > > > > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come

> out

> > > > > > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear.

> > > Astrology

> > > > is a

> > > > > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several

books

> > > have

> > > > all

> > > > > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all

> > interpretations

> > > > are

> > > > > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on

> its

> > > > > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you

> now

> > > > put

> > > > > forth

> > > > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like

> > planet

> > > (

> > > > > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the

science

> > > from a

> > > > > > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds

> of

> > > all

> > > > > > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects,

particularly

> on

> > > > young

> > > > > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a

> discussion

> > > > > started on

> > > > > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy

> > > wasted

> > > > on a

> > > > > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt

> > will

> > > > > arise as

> > > > > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it

with

> > > good

> > > > they

> > > > > > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they

> had.So

> > if

> > > > you

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making

> > > > > radical,unauthenticated

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa

> free

> > > > forum.

> > > > > > > But the least I can say is that this would be

> thegreatest

> > > > > disservice

> > > > > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to

> > > learned

> > > > > > > members would be to accept any advice only after their

> own

> > > > study

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao

> > > etc.for

> > > > > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice

> > > seriously

> > > > > only if

> > > > > > > it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent

> > > > > verification

> > > > > > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown

> research/

> > > > > experience.

> > > > > > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this

> discussion

> > > as

> > > > > friends

> > > > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as

> lagnesh).So

> > > far I

> > > > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a

> > > > > > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last

two

> > > > > queries.The

> > > > > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS

> has

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > read

> > > > > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not

> the

> > > > 3rd

> > > > > only.

> > > > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in

> > > second,

> > > > > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving)

> in

> > > > 6,8,12

> > > > > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house,

conjunct

> or

> > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house

> opposite

> > > > effect.

> > > > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So

> long

> > > as

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver

> > > according

> > > > to

> > > > > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and

> is

> > > also

> > > > > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed

> with

> > > it,

> > > > then

> > > > > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean

> that

> > > if

> > > > > Mars is

> > > > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an

> > > > > implication

> > > > > > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make your

> > Muni's

> > > > > dictum

> > > > > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say

> that

> > > > while a

> > > > > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich

but

> > > with

> > > > Mars

> > > > > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit

> words "Vapi"

> > > > > > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting

> your

> > > own

> > > > self

> > > > > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi

> > > which

> > > > as

> > > > > per

> > > > > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes

necessary

> to

> > > > > support?

> > > > > > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not

> getting

> > > > > > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is

no

> > > > chapter

> > > > > > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which

> has

> > > no

> > > > > > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give

> good

> > > > > > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan---

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <boxdel> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward

> by

> > > you

> > > > > that if

> > > > > > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not an

> > > > authority on

> > > > > > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as

> > authorities,

> > > > > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have

not

> > > heard

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of

> > > ignoramus.

> > > > > All of

> > > > > > > those who are treated as authorities have given

opinions

> of

> > > > > others by

> > > > > > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely what

> the

> > > > shloka

> > > > > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the

> > > > Acharyas

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The

> reason

> > I

> > > > am

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to

read

> > > > various

> > > > > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous

> texts

> > > > and it

> > > > > > > takes time to remember the name of author of each and

> every

> > > > shloka

> > > > > > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to

read

> > > > > > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would

be

> > > > reduced

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at

the

> > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have

> told

> > > > before

> > > > > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha

> > Mihira.Maitreya

> > > > also

> > > > > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told

principlesof

> > > > > astrology on

> > > > > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a

> > > relatively

> > > > > easy

> > > > > > > method so that transit of planets could be used for

> > > prediction

> > > > by

> > > > > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga

> > > > inBPHS.Could

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What

> > isthe

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the

2nd

> > > when

> > > > > placed

> > > > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one

> > wealthy,

> > > > > implying

> > > > > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in

> > 2ndwould

> > > > not

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not

> > > > > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is

> quoting

> > > > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to

> reason

> > > > out

> > > > > why

> > > > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya

> > Vridhi

> > > > it

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house.

> > > Think

> > > > why

> > > > > > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in

> > > > > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have

already

> > > read

> > > > the

> > > > > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv>

> > > > SvSwanhNta

> > > > > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir

> +iòrSy

> > > > > ànòa.But

> > > > > > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not

> establish

> > > > > > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be

> > backed

> > > > up by

> > > > > > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the

> time

> > > > when

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally

> > > > > translated,

> > > > > > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed

in

> and

> > > > > > > dignifies

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects

> the

> > > > house it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the

> > > > > words "vdit

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > muinvra"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka

too

> is

> > > > > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is

> the

> > > > > author of

> > > > > > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are

> > > making

> > > > an

> > > > > > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed

> > shall

> > > > > change

> > > > > > > the entire structure of

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir,

> Mantracharya

> > all

> > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka).

You

> > > > have

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can

> be

> > > > written

> > > > > > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying

> sanskrit.

> > > It

> > > > does

> > > > > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply

> because

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > written

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka

> and

> > we

> > > > need

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the

> author

> > > > who

> > > > > is so

> > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In

> your

> > > > other

> > > > > mail

> > > > > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of

> Pt.Gopeshkumar

> > > Oza

> > > > and

> > > > > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > commentaries

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very

> > > well.

> > > > So,

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the

> > > > > backgroundinformation

> > > > > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning

> whyyou

> > > > are so

> > > > > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives

> > ofhuman

> > > > > > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual

> > > charts

> > > > as

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > common

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you

> are

> > > > > now

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > holding

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in

the

> > > lives

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > these

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides

> Lakshmi

> > > has

> > > > > > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post

point

> by

> > > > > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka

> and

> > > > others

> > > > > > > have given

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through

> the

> > > > > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you

> found

> > > > shloka

> > > > > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving

problems

> in

> > > > > progeny

> > > > > > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how

much

> do

> > > > you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not

> > harmed

> > > > the

> > > > > > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own

> family?

> > > > Check

> > > > > up.

> > > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > check

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to

> understand

> > > what

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement.

> If

> > > you

> > > > read

> > > > > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from

their

> own

> > > > > > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the

> > dictum

> > > in

> > > > > > > proper perspective to get

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums,

> like

> > all

> > > > > > > planetsgive good results in own house and all planets

> are

> > > > capable

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen

> > > times

> > > > that

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has

> to be

> > > > > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all

variables.The

> > case

> > > > > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house

> > orSaturn

> > > > who

> > > > > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I

> > > > remember

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > right.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH ,

sthana

> > > > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be

> obtained

> > > are

> > > > in

> > > > > > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts

on

> > > this

> > > > > subject

> > > > > > > all along but

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > failed

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup

> too

> > > has

> > > > its

> > > > > > > unfavourable positions and

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > traits.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it

> is

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > functional

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also

> know

> > > > that

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > gets

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means

> only

> > > > holding

> > > > > > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we

> extend

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > argument

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well

> > > > > > > established

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > _______________________________

> Express

> > > > > yourself

> > > > > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

> > > > http://messenger.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu

> ||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu

> ||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sponsor

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> > > > > > > >

> > > Terms

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> > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

||

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[Guest guest]

Dear Tatwam asi ji

 

Pls call me pradeep without a ji.

Kindly post the translation of the shloka for better understanding.

Nice to know that your grandfather had the wealth of knowledge,and

hence your inheritence.

 

Your grand fathers chart has saturn a malefic(11th & 12th lord) in

7th and it aspects retro 7th lord.Venus the natural Karaka for

spouse is in the 8th from lagna,with ketu.It is more afflicted as

the tattwa of its navamsha has influences of mars and saturn.Mars is

2nd lord ,has very low shadbala and aspects 7th house in rashi. Most

importantly,Jupiter though strong in rashi is debilitated in

navamsha and unable to protect fully.Shouldnt we account these

factors as well for the early widowhood.

 

Your kind explanations will enable better learning.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

 

vedic astrology, "nameisego" <nameisego>

wrote:

> Hello Friend,

>

> Self has never contested position of Guru as lagna lord in lagna.

>

> Grandfather of self who was world reknowned authority on samaveda

and

> an accomplished astrologer had Guru in Lagna in Meena rasi.

> He was a living sanyasi after being widowed very early in life.

>

> Please read JATAKALANKAR sloka which is as follows.

>

> Angadhish swagehe, Budha,Guru Kavi bhi sanyute kendragova,

> Swiye , Tunge, swamitre yadi shubhavavane: Vikshita satwa rupa.

> Syanunna punyashila sakala janamata sarva sampannidhanam.

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

>

> vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > Dear Shri Tatwam Asi ji

> >

> > You have more experience than me and for the same reason i may

not

> > counter your claims/knowledge/experiments.

> >

> > But from my own experience, i can give you input on Dhanu Rashi

and

> > Guru ,if it helps or adds to your experiments with Guru.

> > I have Guru placed alone in Lagna,Dhanus in moola nakshathra.I

have

> > to say Guru has been a big blessing for me.Guru has given me

> > abundant luck, whenever i was in need.Whatever Guru gives, needs

to

> > to be distributed,and i should say, distribution will lead

towards

> > further inflow.I agree totally with Zoran Ji and Lakshmi ji on

this

> > matter.

> > Now similar to what ASH ji has mentioned,Guru gives with less

effort

> > complimented by luck, while Saturn gives with effort and

> > difficulties.And difficulties in other words are nothing but

TRUTH

> > and reminds one about the realities.Rest of the time we are

under

> the

> > influence of Maaya.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> <nameisego>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Lakshmiji,

> > > True ....all planets show dual nature.

> > > But most of you do not want to give any negetive character to

> > Guru's

> > > role as a lier, spoiler of a bhava, pain giver , manipulator

> > > hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind, plagiarist and

egoist .

> > > People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather arguements

giving

> > > different reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru

but

> > are

> > > not prepared to accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the

bhava

> > > where he sits.

> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter

as

> > 6th

> > > lord (moolatrikona) does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his

job

> > in

> > > the chart), but if the 2nd lord sun and moon were stronger and

> > Venus

> > > dignified, the scenario would have been different.

> > > >

> > > > Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of

Jupiter.

> > If

> > > we look deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact

there

> > are

> > > lot of differences between the same Jupiter of cancer,

> > Sagittarius,

> > > Pisces and Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change

> > > according to the tattwa of Rasi, functionality of house etc

etc.

> > So

> > > is the case with all the other planets too.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > > Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste

> > > >

> > > > Yes the houses which you have mentioned do need to be

> > > considered.But

> > > > taking into consideration of sthala, Kaala &

Saaahacharya ,in a

> > > > western society, relationships are more or less like family

> > > matters.

> > > > Thus they can very well fall under second house matters,too.

> > > Anyways

> > > > she had multiple marriages, even if we want to ignore

affairs.

> > > >

> > > > Looking at her 4th house, one could imagine about her mana

> > sukha.

> > > > Especially as Sun is there and more so due to his

> debilitation.I

> > am

> > > > not ruling out the role sun has played here.But there is a

> > > > parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well. Jupiter is not

> very

> > > > specific about all the concerned matters, related to his

house

> > of

> > > > residence. Jupiter in my opinion is a planet behaving in a

very

> > > > broad manner - broad advises, broad knowledge, broad

outlook,

> > > > benevolent, magnanimous etc. If you observe people with high

> > > > jupiterian influence ,you may find this.While Venus is the

> > > > reverse,he is very particular about the finer

aspects ,whether

> > it

> > > > is arts,love,or anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look

> certain

> > > > aspects,which he considers as insignificant, thereby leading

to

> > > > Bhrashta(as learned members have pointed out).

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > When you are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th

> > house

> > > > also? And the 3rd since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama

> > trikona?

> > > > Why it can't be the influence of weak 11 th lord Venus

placed

> > in

> > > > 2nd house (it is also the house of attraction) indicative

of

> > such

> > > > behaviour and Jupiter as the expansive planet & the lord of

> > > shadripu

> > > > (6th house) could have encouraged "vriddhi" !! And, since

Venus

> > is

> > > > also the 4th lord & moon is also involved (the two planets

> > > connected

> > > > with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her family suffered.

> > > > >

> > > > > By the way, where is her Sun?

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Ms.Reema

> > > > >

> > > > > One thing that needs to be observed at first glance ,from

> > Julias

> > > > > chart is the planets in 2nd house. The simplest way to get

a

> > > > general

> > > > > overview of a chart w.r to finance,is to look for a link

> > between

> > > > > lakshmisthanas & inflow ,outflow houses.When lagna is

> involved

> > > the

> > > > > effects are pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).

> > > > > In her case 11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and lagna

lord

> > moon

> > > > are

> > > > > placed in 2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of 9th

lord

> > > > > (jupiter) and aspected by him.A connection between all

money

> > > > > houses.Thus this simple technique, outlines the presence

of

> an

> > > > > inherent big promise.(the strength of these have to be

> > > reconfirmed

> > > > > with amsha positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of

inflow

> > and

> > > > > balance houses etc).

> > > > >

> > > > > Now coming to family and affairs - She had relationships

> > (publicly

> > > > > known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple times.Do

we

> > > need

> > > > a

> > > > > better proof regarding one of the indications being

> > harmed?.Since

> > > > > money indications were strong otherwise,family matters

> > suffered.

> > > > >

> > > > > This does not mean Guru is a malefic or a harmer,rather

one

> > may

> > > > > storm their brains and understand what is the nature of

Guru

> > and

> > > > how

> > > > > he behaves.Various posts so far from learned members holds

> the

> > > > > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the greatest benefic,but

> > > benefit

> > > > > for what/whom is to observed from case to case.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh"

> > > > > <reema_sriganesh> wrote:

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was

referring

> to

> > in

> > > > my

> > > > > > original email.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) My mother

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 03/18/1946

> > > > > > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 75E06, 23N18

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and

> respect

> > > her

> > > > > the

> > > > > > most in life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) Julia Roberts

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10/28/1967

> > > > > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 84W23, 33N44

> > > > > >

> > > > > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her

> > family

> > > > > > background, although, I believe she's had multiple

> marriages.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) Dhirubhai Ambani

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 12/28/1932

> > > > > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 70E26, 20N53

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard

> all

> > > his

> > > > > life

> > > > > > and had a good social standing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4) Donald Trump

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6/14/1946

> > > > > > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 73W52, 40N43

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations

> with

> > > his

> > > > > > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of

money

> > from

> > > > him

> > > > > as

> > > > > > part of their divorce settlements)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5) John Kerry

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 12/11/1943

> > > > > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 104W59, 39N44

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very

successful

> > > > career

> > > > > > throughout in politics and a good social standing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6) Ralph Nader

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 02/27/1934

> > > > > > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 73W4, 41N55

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time.

Throughout

> > his

> > > > > life

> > > > > > he has been a successful activist/lawyer against

> > corporations

> > > > that

> > > > > > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a

mistake

> > with

> > > > > this

> > > > > > chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my

original

> > mail,

> > > > I

> > > > > did

> > > > > > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL,

wherein

> > vakri

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa

> > back

> > > to

> > > > > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the

> > > > > significations

> > > > > > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although

he

> is

> > a

> > > > > very

> > > > > > private person, he publicly credits his father

> for "sparking

> > > his

> > > > > > interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from

> > > Lebanon

> > > > > to

> > > > > > the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend

to

> > > > respect

> > > > > > their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us

to

> > > > assume

> > > > > his

> > > > > > relationship with father (good or bad), without further

> > details.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7) Sachin Tendulkar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 04/24/1973

> > > > > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > > > Place: 72E50, 18N58

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids

> (son

> > > and

> > > > a

> > > > > > daughter).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the

> > requisite

> > > > > > details. Please let me know if you need any further

> > information

> > > > on

> > > > > > the life of the above natives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all.

> > > > > > Reema.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <boxdel>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Reema,

> > > > > > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with

brief

> > life

> > > > > > sketch of

> > > > > > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the

> > Bhava

> > > > Guru

> > > > > > > occupies damaged? This information would certainly

help

> > look

> > > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > dictum in right perspective.

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > reema_sriganesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste everyone,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in

tula

> > have

> > > > > given

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru

> > > > > (conjoined

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and

the

> > > native

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru

is

> in

> > > > kanya

> > > > > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big

industrialist.

> > I

> > > > have

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in

> 2nd

> > > > house

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart

where

> > > Guru

> > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently

> > stands

> > > > a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United

> States.

> > I

> > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th

house

> > and

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4

> times.

> > I

> > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in

Makara

> > in

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and

> > > > daughter).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the

> > charts

> > > in

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > collection, we would find so many of them where

Guru's

> > > > > occupation

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful

in

> > the

> > > > > > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the

> theory

> > of

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > > spoiling the occupied bhava.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to

urge

> > > further

> > > > > > > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he

> > > > occupies,

> > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > coming to any conclusions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,

> > > > > > > > Reema.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi

ramesh

> > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the

quoted

> > > > lines

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > taken?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can

not

> > > really

> > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author,

> Parasara

> > > > often

> > > > > > thinks

> > > > > > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and

my

> > > > > admiration

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound

> ways

> > to

> > > > > > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science

rather

> > than

> > > > as

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that

the

> > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana

karana

> > > > > sthana) on

> > > > > > > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his

troubled

> > > > times

> > > > > as

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted

> venus

> > > > (4th

> > > > > &

> > > > > > 11th

> > > > > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this

> > > > information,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by

focusing

> on

> > > > > Jupiter

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the

Veda

> > > > vidya

> > > > > or

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than

> > ourselves,

> > > > our

> > > > > > petty

> > > > > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth

is

> > > > > revealed

> > > > > > to us

> > > > > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want

to

> > > look

> > > > > at

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing

our

> > > best

> > > > > not

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell

me,

> > Sir,

> > > > > > honestly

> > > > > > > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature,

> limit

> > > > > yourself

> > > > > > > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for

> evaluating

> > a

> > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My

> > tentative

> > > > > feeling

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries

> lagna,

> > > > with

> > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini,

sun

> > in

> > > > > > cancer,

> > > > > > > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius)

along

> > with

> > > > > saturn.

> > > > > > > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would

be

> > fun

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > discuss it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if

someone

> > > else

> > > > > had,

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > would like to see them.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya

Jagannath

> > ||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.

> > > > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of

> Guru

> > in

> > > > > Lagna,

> > > > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth

> tested

> > > > Satwa

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

> > Guru

> > > > > killed

> > > > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to

forest."

> It

> > > > > further

> > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of

Guru

> > in

> > > > > 2nd,

> > > > > > King

> > > > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

> > account

> > > > of

> > > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his

wife

> > on

> > > > > > account of

> > > > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non

> eatables

> > > > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > Sarajit

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > PNRazdan

> > > > > > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology

> > > > > > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM

> > > > > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup

in

> > > > various

> > > > > > roles--

> > > > > > > > to Chandraji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of

> > Narada

> > > > in

> > > > > > Ghatika

> > > > > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not

> > > Brahma)

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of

> Bhava

> > > > Pada

> > > > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > > > again mentions that he is telling the special

effects

> of

> > > > Pada

> > > > > as

> > > > > > told

> > > > > > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also

mentions

> > > > opinion

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great

> Sage

> > > has

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds

in

> > one

> > > or

> > > > > > other of

> > > > > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to

Sage

> > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1

of

> > that

> > > > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given

opinions

> > of

> > > > many

> > > > > > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only

told

> > > what

> > > > > had

> > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing

> > disrespect

> > > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to

> > other

> > > > > Rishis

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Acharyas.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority

of

> > the

> > > > > shlokas

> > > > > > > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in

> > which

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and

> > > Chamatkaar

> > > > > > > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has

the

> > > > shlokas

> > > > > and

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read

> Chamatkar

> > > > > > Chintamani

> > > > > > > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at

least

> > one

> > > > > > indication

> > > > > > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also

> > mentions

> > > a

> > > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > from Purana which says:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of

> Guru

> > in

> > > > > Lagna,

> > > > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth

> tested

> > > > Satwa

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

> > Guru

> > > > > killed

> > > > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to

forest."

> It

> > > > > further

> > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of

Guru

> > in

> > > > > 2nd,

> > > > > > King

> > > > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

> > account

> > > > of

> > > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his

wife

> > on

> > > > > > account of

> > > > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non

> eatables

> > > > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments

> but

> > > > would

> > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > to mention here that the group is formed with an

> > intention

> > > of

> > > > > > > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I

do

> > not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid

science

> > not

> > > > open

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled

for.

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my

> > > > reasoning.

> > > > > > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma

> > > himself

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his

> > father

> > > > the

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your

> > > shaloka

> > > > > > quoting

> > > > > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but

only

> > one

> > > > sage-

> > > > > I

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular)

would

> be

> > > > like

> > > > > > showing

> > > > > > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is

going

> > to

> > > > > serve

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of

> the

> > > > > shalok

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is

> > something

> > > > > > casually

> > > > > > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary

importance.

> > You

> > > > > seem

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in

this

> > > group

> > > > > > wanting

> > > > > > > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint

at.

> > But

> > > I

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of

discussion

> > where

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without

> > reservations.

> > > > Or

> > > > > > > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to

come

> > out

> > > > > > > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear.

> > > > Astrology

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several

> books

> > > > have

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all

> > > interpretations

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending

on

> > its

> > > > > > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If

you

> > now

> > > > > put

> > > > > > forth

> > > > > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic

like

> > > planet

> > > > (

> > > > > > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the

> science

> > > > from a

> > > > > > > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the

minds

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > > > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects,

> particularly

> > on

> > > > > young

> > > > > > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a

> > discussion

> > > > > > started on

> > > > > > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is

energy

> > > > wasted

> > > > > on a

> > > > > > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a

doubt

> > > will

> > > > > > arise as

> > > > > > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it

> with

> > > > good

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they

> > had.So

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making

> > > > > > radical,unauthenticated

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this

isa

> > free

> > > > > forum.

> > > > > > > > But the least I can say is that this would be

> > thegreatest

> > > > > > disservice

> > > > > > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion

to

> > > > learned

> > > > > > > > members would be to accept any advice only after

their

> > own

> > > > > study

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman,

Rao

> > > > etc.for

> > > > > > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice

> > > > seriously

> > > > > > only if

> > > > > > > > it is backed up by its source so as to

makeindependent

> > > > > > verification

> > > > > > > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown

> > research/

> > > > > > experience.

> > > > > > > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this

> > discussion

> > > > as

> > > > > > friends

> > > > > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as

> > lagnesh).So

> > > > far I

> > > > > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a

> > > > > > > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last

> two

> > > > > > queries.The

> > > > > > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of

BPHS

> > has

> > > > to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and

not

> > the

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > only.

> > > > > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh

in

> > > > second,

> > > > > > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth

giving)

> > in

> > > > > 6,8,12

> > > > > > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house,

> conjunct

> > or

> > > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house

> > opposite

> > > > > effect.

> > > > > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to

be.So

> > long

> > > > as

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver

> > > > according

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter

and

> > is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed

> > with

> > > > it,

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not

mean

> > that

> > > > if

> > > > > > Mars is

> > > > > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is

an

> > > > > > implication

> > > > > > > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make

your

> > > Muni's

> > > > > > dictum

> > > > > > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say

> > that

> > > > > while a

> > > > > > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich

> but

> > > > with

> > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit

> > words "Vapi"

> > > > > > > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting

> > your

> > > > own

> > > > > self

> > > > > > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be

swagrahi

> > > > which

> > > > > as

> > > > > > per

> > > > > > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes

> necessary

> > to

> > > > > > support?

> > > > > > > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not

> > getting

> > > > > > > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There

is

> no

> > > > > chapter

> > > > > > > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay

which

> > has

> > > > no

> > > > > > > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to

give

> > good

> > > > > > > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--

-

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <boxdel> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put

forward

> > by

> > > > you

> > > > > > that if

> > > > > > > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not

an

> > > > > authority on

> > > > > > > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as

> > > authorities,

> > > > > > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have

> not

> > > > heard

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of

> > > > ignoramus.

> > > > > > All of

> > > > > > > > those who are treated as authorities have given

> opinions

> > of

> > > > > > others by

> > > > > > > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely

what

> > the

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of

the

> > > > > Acharyas

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The

> > reason

> > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to

> read

> > > > > various

> > > > > > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are

numerous

> > texts

> > > > > and it

> > > > > > > > takes time to remember the name of author of each

and

> > every

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to

> read

> > > > > > > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts

would

> be

> > > > > reduced

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at

> the

> > > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers

have

> > told

> > > > > before

> > > > > > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha

> > > Mihira.Maitreya

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told

> principlesof

> > > > > > astrology on

> > > > > > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a

> > > > relatively

> > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > method so that transit of planets could be used for

> > > > prediction

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga

> > > > > inBPHS.Could

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS?

What

> > > isthe

> > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the

> 2nd

> > > > when

> > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one

> > > wealthy,

> > > > > > implying

> > > > > > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in

> > > 2ndwould

> > > > > not

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do

not

> > > > > > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is

> > quoting

> > > > > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to

> > reason

> > > > > out

> > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give

Kakshya

> > > Vridhi

> > > > > it

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th

house.

> > > > Think

> > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in

> > > > > > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have

> already

> > > > read

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention.

jIv>

> > > > > SvSwanhNta

> > > > > > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir

> > +iòrSy

> > > > > > ànòa.But

> > > > > > > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not

> > establish

> > > > > > > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to

be

> > > backed

> > > > > up by

> > > > > > > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field,

the

> > time

> > > > > when

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > wassaid and the context in which it was said.

Literally

> > > > > > translated,

> > > > > > > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is

placed

> in

> > and

> > > > > > > > dignifies

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn

protects

> > the

> > > > > house it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the

> > > > > > words "vdit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > muinvra"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka

> too

> > is

> > > > > > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who

is

> > the

> > > > > > author of

> > > > > > > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you

are

> > > > making

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > important and revolutionarystatement which if

followed

> > > shall

> > > > > > change

> > > > > > > > the entire structure of

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir,

> > Mantracharya

> > > all

> > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka).

> You

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas

can

> > be

> > > > > written

> > > > > > > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying

> > sanskrit.

> > > > It

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply

> > because

> > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > written

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a

shaloka

> > and

> > > we

> > > > > need

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the

> > author

> > > > > who

> > > > > > is so

> > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority.

In

> > your

> > > > > other

> > > > > > mail

> > > > > > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of

> > Pt.Gopeshkumar

> > > > Oza

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > commentaries

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit

very

> > > > well.

> > > > > So,

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the

> > > > > > backgroundinformation

> > > > > > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning

> > whyyou

> > > > > are so

> > > > > > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the

lives

> > > ofhuman

> > > > > > > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of

individual

> > > > charts

> > > > > as

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > common

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If

you

> > are

> > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > holding

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in

> the

> > > > lives

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > these

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides

> > Lakshmi

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post

> point

> > by

> > > > > > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant

shloka

> > and

> > > > > others

> > > > > > > > have given

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go

through

> > the

> > > > > > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have

you

> > found

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving

> problems

> > in

> > > > > > progeny

> > > > > > > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how

> much

> > do

> > > > > you

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has

not

> > > harmed

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own

> > family?

> > > > > Check

> > > > > > up.

> > > > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > check

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to

> > understand

> > > > what

> > > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping

statement.

> > If

> > > > you

> > > > > read

> > > > > > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from

> their

> > own

> > > > > > > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply

the

> > > dictum

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > proper perspective to get

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums,

> > like

> > > all

> > > > > > > > planetsgive good results in own house and all

planets

> > are

> > > > > capable

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written

umpteen

> > > > times

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but

has

> > to be

> > > > > > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all

> variables.The

> > > case

> > > > > > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house

> > > orSaturn

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > right.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH ,

> sthana

> > > > > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be

> > obtained

> > > > are

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your

posts

> on

> > > > this

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > all along but

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > failed

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that

Jup

> > too

> > > > has

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > unfavourable positions and

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > traits.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that

it

> > is

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > functional

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We

also

> > know

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > gets

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh

means

> > only

> > > > > holding

> > > > > > > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we

> > extend

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > argument

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well

> > > > > > > > established

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > _______________________________

> > Express

> > > > > > yourself

> > > > > > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

> > > > > http://messenger.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic-

astrology

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> Krishnaarpanamastu

> > ||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic-

astrology

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> Krishnaarpanamastu

> > ||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sponsor

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email

to:

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the

 

> > > > Terms

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Service.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

> > protection

> > > > > around

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Archives: vedic-

astrology

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > astrology/info.html

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> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu

> ||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * Sponsor*

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> > > > > 7

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> > >

> >

>

6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095950461/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6

> > > > > /

> > > > > > *http://companion.>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------

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> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

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> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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