2nd house Jup in various roles--Lakshmi ji ,Dual nature of Guru

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sir,

 

Thanks for your reply. And my age is 44 years, which is not exactly young either!

 

Can I have the birth details of the person you were talking about?

 

Regards,

Lakshminameisego <nameisego > wrote:

Hello Sri Lakshmiji,Self does not know how old you are and how many horoscopes

you have seen.It is the time that proves or disproves anything .We lesser

mortals are nothing to prove.About a person having Guru in 2nd house in exalted

sign, almost all astrologers in Bombay had told the person that he will become a

multimillionaire.(His father was one).Self had asked him to save and safeguard

what he had.He was rolling in wealth when this warning was given.Over a period

of time in 25 years what was told by self came true.He not only destroyed

what his father had created but also made his mother sell off prime properties

on chaupati in Mumbai, plumb behing wilson college.So let time prove

things.Till then,TUNDE TUNDE (Munde Munde) MATIRBHINNA.!!Tatvam-Asi--- In

vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:>

Om Gurave Namah> > Namaste Sir,> > Will 100 people walking 100 miles change

the face of the Truth? Truth is that which will stand close scrutiny from

different perspectives and would still abide.> > If you read all my posts on

the thread, you'd know that's what I was trying to establish all along and I

see no reason for your being so upset. You present your perspective and I

present mine. No offence meant at any stage, Sir, for I honour your age and

experience. Please, let's not get excited and continue the discussion in a

dispassionate and systematic spirit of enquiry.> > Regards,> Lakshmi> >

nameisego <nameisego> wrote:> > Hello Lakshmiji,> True ....all planets

show dual nature.> But most of you do not want to give any

negetive character to Guru's > role as a lier, spoiler of a bhava, pain giver ,

manipulator > hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind, plagiarist and egoist .>

People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather arguements giving > different

reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru but are > not prepared to

accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the bhava > where he sits.> Tatvam-Asi>

> > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh >

<b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > Om Gurave Namah> > > > Namaste Pradeep,> >

> > Thanks for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter as 6th > lord

(moolatrikona) does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his job in > the chart),

but if the 2nd lord sun and moon were stronger and Venus > dignified, the

scenario would have been different.>

> > > Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of Jupiter. If > we

look deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact there are > lot of

differences between the same Jupiter of cancer, Sagittarius, > Pisces and

Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change > according to the tattwa

of Rasi, functionality of house etc etc. So > is the case with all the other

planets too.> > > > Regards,> > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> > Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste> > > > Yes the

houses which you have mentioned do need to be > considered.But > > taking into

consideration of sthala, Kaala & Saaahacharya ,in a > > western society,

relationships are more or less like family > matters. > >

Thus they can very well fall under second house matters,too. > Anyways > > she

had multiple marriages, even if we want to ignore affairs. > > > > Looking at

her 4th house, one could imagine about her mana sukha. > > Especially as Sun is

there and more so due to his debilitation.I am > > not ruling out the role sun

has played here.But there is a > > parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well.

Jupiter is not very > > specific about all the concerned matters, related to his

house of > > residence. Jupiter in my opinion is a planet behaving in a very > >

broad manner - broad advises, broad knowledge, broad outlook, > > benevolent,

magnanimous etc. If you observe people with high > > jupiterian influence ,you

may find this.While Venus is the > > reverse,he is very particular about the

finer aspects ,whether it > > is arts,love,or

anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look certain > > aspects,which he considers

as insignificant, thereby leading to > > Bhrashta(as learned members have

pointed out).> > > > Regds> > Pradeep> > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh>

wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,> > > > > > When you

are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th house > > also? And the 3rd

since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama trikona? > > Why it can't be the

influence of weak 11 th lord Venus placed in > > 2nd house (it is also the

house of attraction) indicative of such > > behaviour and Jupiter as the

expansive planet & the lord of > shadripu > > (6th house) could have encouraged

"vriddhi" !! And, since Venus is > > also the 4th lord & moon is also involved

(the two planets > connected > > with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her

family suffered.> > > > > > By the way, where is her Sun?> > > > > >

Regards,> > > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> > > Dear Ms.Reema> > > > > > One thing that

needs to be observed at first glance ,from Julias > > > chart is the planets in

2nd house. The simplest way to get a > > general > > > overview of a chart w.r

to finance,is to look for a link between > > > lakshmisthanas & inflow ,outflow

houses.When lagna is involved > the > > > effects are pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).>

> > In her case

11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and lagna lord moon > > are> > > placed in

2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of 9th lord> > > (jupiter) and aspected

by him.A connection between all money > > > houses.Thus this simple technique,

outlines the presence of an > > > inherent big promise.(the strength of these

have to be > reconfirmed > > > with amsha

positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of inflow and > > > balance houses

etc).> > > > > > Now coming to family and affairs - She had

relationships(publicly > > > known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple

times.Do we > need > > a > > > better proof regarding one of the indications

being harmed?.Since > > > money indications were strong otherwise,family

matters suffered.> > > > > > This does not mean Guru is a

malefic or a harmer,rather one may > > > storm their brains and understand what

is the nature of Guru and > > how > > > he behaves.Various posts so far from

learned members holds the > > > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the greatest

benefic,but > benefit > > > for what/whom is to observed from case to case.> >

> > > > Thanks> > > Pradeep> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh" > > > <reema_sriganesh>

wrote:> > > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,> > > > > > > > Sure. Below are the

details of the charts I was referring to in > > my > > > > original email.> > >

> > > > > 1) My mother> > > > > > > > 03/18/1946>

> > > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT)> > > > Place: 75E06, 23N18> > > > > >

> > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect > her > > > the

> > > > most in life.> > > > > > > > 2) Julia Roberts> > > > > > > > Date:

10/28/1967> > > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT)> > > > Place: 84W23, 33N44>

> > > > > > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her family >

> > > background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages.> > > > > > >

> 3) Dhirubhai Ambani> > > > > > > > 12/28/1932> > > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30

East of GMT)> > > > Place: 70E26, 20N53> > > > > > > > He was a

very successful industrialist. Worked very hard all > his > > > life > > > > and

had a good social standing.> > > > > > > > 4) Donald Trump> > > > > > > > Date:

6/14/1946> > > > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)> > > > Place: 73W52, 40N43> >

> > > > > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations with > his >

> > > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money from > > him > >

> as > > > > part of their divorce settlements)> > > > > > > > 5) John Kerry> >

> > > > > > 12/11/1943> > > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)> > > >

Place: 104W59, 39N44> > > > > > > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a

very successful > > career > > > > throughout in politics and a good social

standing.> > > > > > > > 6) Ralph Nader> > > > > > > > 02/27/1934> > > >

Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)> > > > Place: 73W4, 41N55> > > > > > > > Is a

presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout his > > > life > > > >

he has been a successful activist/lawyer against corporations > > that > > > >

pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake with > > > this > > >

> chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original mail, > > I > > >

did > > > > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein vakri > >

> Guru > > > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I

have changed the ayanamsa back > to > > > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in

kanya. Regardless, the > > > significations > > > > of 9th house do not seem to

have been harmed. Although he is a > > > very > > > > private person, he

publicly credits his father for "sparking > his > > > > interest in public

affairs". His parents immigrated from > Lebanon > > > to > > > > the US, and

usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to > > respect > > > > their hard

working parents. But again, I do not want us to > > assume > > > his > > > >

relationship with father (good or bad), without further details.> > > > > > > >

7) Sachin Tendulkar> > > > > > > > 04/24/1973> > > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30

East of

GMT)> > > > Place: 72E50, 18N58> > > > > > > > A very famous sportsman (cricket)

with two adoring kids (son > and > > a > > > > daughter).> > > > > > > >

Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the requisite > > > > details.

Please let me know if you need any further information > > on > > > > the life

of the above natives.> > > > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all.> > > >

Reema.> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar >

> > <boxdel> > > > > wrote:> > > > > Dear Reema,> > > > > Would you kindly

post the charts you refer to with brief life > > > > sketch of > > > > > each of

the Jataka? Is

none of the indications of the Bhava > > Guru > > > > > occupies damaged? This

information would certainly help look > > at > > > the > > > > > dictum in

right perspective.> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

reema_sriganesh wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste everyone,> > > > > >> > > >

> > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have > > > given > >

> > the> > > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru > > >

(conjoined > > > > with> > > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in

simha, and the > native > > > is a> > > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a

third chart where Guru is in > > kanya> > > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native

was a big industrialist. I > > have > > > a> > > > > > fourth chart where vakri

Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd > > house > > > and> > > > > > the native is a

billionaire. I have a fifth chart where > Guru > > > is in> > > > > > simha

(alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands > > a > > > good> > > > >

> chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I > > > have a> > > >

> > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and > > the> > > > >

> native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I > > > have a> > > >

> > seventh chart where Guru is

conjoined Mangal in Makara in > > 5th > > > > house> > > > > > and the native is

a father of two children (son and > > daughter).> > > > > >> > > > > > I am sure

that if all of us were to go through the charts > in > > > our> > > > > >

collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's > > > occupation > > > >

of> > > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the> > > >

> > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of > > > Guru> > >

> > > spoiling the occupied bhava.> > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore, without

taking sides, I would like to urge > further> > > > > > research on this theory

of Guru hurting the house he

> > occupies, > > > > before> > > > > > coming to any conclusions.> > > > > >> >

> > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,> > > > > > Reema.> > > > > >> > > > > > ---

In vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh> > > > > >

<b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,> > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which

purana the quoted > > lines > > > were> > > > > >

taken?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have not read

chamatkar chintamani, so I can not > really > > > > comment> > > > > > on it.

But with all due respects to the author, Parasara > > often > > > > thinks> > >

> > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my > > > admiration > >

> > for> > > > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to>

> > > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than > > as >

> > a> > > > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > > > >> > > > > >

> Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the > > > powerful> > > > >

> sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana > > > sthana) on> > >

> > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled > > times > > > as

> > > > the> > > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus

> > (4th > > > & > > > > 11th> > > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to

ignore all this > > information, > > > and> > > > > > want only to selectively

assess the chart by focusing on > > > Jupiter > > > > in> > > > > > lagna, I

think we are not being true either to the Veda > > vidya > > > or > > > > to> >

> >

> > ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves, > > our > > > >

petty> > > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is > > >

revealed > > > > to us> > > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if

we want to > look > > > at > > > > only> > > > > > one house and only one

planet, I think we are doing our > best > > > not > > > > to> > > > > > elicit

the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, > > > > honestly> > > > > >

do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit > > > yourself> > > > >

> thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a > > > chart?> > > >

> > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is

concerned, My tentative > > > feeling > > > > is> > > > > > that he had Jupiter

debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, > > with > > > > Mars in> > > > > > lagna,

Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in > > > > cancer, > > > > > >

Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with > > > saturn.> > > >

> > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun > > to> > > > >

> discuss it.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have not

thought about other charts. But if someone

> else > > > had, > > > > I> > > > > > would like to see them.> > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lakshmi> >

> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar

<sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath ||> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.> > > > > >

> " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in > > > Lagna,> > > >

> > Guru in third sent Bali to

Patala. Guru in fourth tested > > Satwa > > > of > > > > > > King Harishchandra,

Guru in sixth made Draupadi face > > > Cheerharana.> > > > > > Guru in eighth

destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru > > > killed> > > > > > Duryodhana

and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It > > > further > > > > says> > > >

> > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in > > > 2nd, > > >

> King> > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account >

> of > > > > Guru> > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his

wife on > > > > account of> > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to

consume non eatables > > > >

(Abhakshya)> > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

Regards> > > > > > > Sarajit> > > > > > > -> > > > >

> > Chandrashekhar> > > > > > > PNRazdan> > > > > > > Cc: Prafulla

Gang ; vedic astrology> > > > > > > Wednesday, September

22, 2004 5:00 AM> > > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup

in > > various > > > > roles--> > > > > > to Chandraji> > > > > > >> > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Dear Razdan,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage

Parashara states opinion

of Narada > > in > > > > Ghatika> > > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of

the learned (not > Brahma) > > in> > > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12.

First shloka of Bhava > > Pada > > > > Adhyaya> > > > > > again mentions that

he is telling the special effects of > > Pada > > > as > > > > told> > > > > >

by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions > > opinion > > > of> >

> > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage > has > > in>

> > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one > or > > >

> other of> > > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage >

> > Parashara

> > > > in> > > > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of

that > > > > Adhyaya> > > > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given

opinions of > > many> > > > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara

only told > what > > > had > > > > been> > > > > > revealed to him by Lord

Brahma would be showing disrespect > > to > > > the> > > > > > Great sage who

had the magnanimity to give credit to other > > > Rishis > > > > and> > > > > >

Acharyas.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and

authority of the > > > shlokas> > > > > > that I quoted, I would like to give

you the Texts in which > > the> > > > > > shlokas appear. If you read

Tatvapradeepjataka and > Chamatkaar> > > > > > Chintamani you will find them.

The first text has the > > shlokas > > > and > > > > the> > > > > > later again

mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar > > > > Chintamani> > > > > >

further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one > > > > indication> >

> > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions > a > > > >

shloka> > > > > > from Purana which says:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > " Lord

Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in > > > Lagna,> > > > > > Guru

in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru

in fourth tested > > Satwa > > > of > > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in

sixth made Draupadi face > > > Cheerharana.> > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed

(Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru > > > killed> > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th

house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It > > > further > > > > says> > > > > > that

Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in > > > 2nd, > > > > King> >

> > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account > > of > > >

> Guru> > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on > >

> > account of> > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non

eatables > > > > (Abhakshya)>

> > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would not

like to respond to your other comments but > > would > > > > like> > > > > > to

mention here that the group is formed with an intention > of> > > > > > learning

and discussing principles of astrology. I do not > > > > > > > > > > to

your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not > > open > > > to> > > >

> > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.> > > > > > >

Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > >

> > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my > > reasoning.>

> > > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma > himself > > >

which> > > > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father > >

the > > > > great> > > > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating

your > shaloka > > > > quoting> > > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said

earlier, but only one > > sage-> > > I > > > > was> > > > > > incorrect because

the noun andverb is singular) would be > > like > > > > showing> > > > > >

candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to > > > serve > > > >

any> > > > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the > > >

shalok > > > >

you> > > > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something > > >

> casually> > > > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance.

You > > > seem > > > > to> > > > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a

master in this > group > > > > wanting> > > > > > your disciples to hunt

forthemselves what you hint at. But > I > > > dont> > > > > > think this is an

Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where > > an> > > > > > academic

discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. > > Or> > > > > > possibly

there may be other reasons foryou not to come out> > > > > > > openly.The

moral of this story however is clear. > > Astrology > >

> is a> > > > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books > >

have > > > all> > > > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all >

interpretations > > > are> > > > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications

depending on its> > > > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc.

If you now > > > put > > > > forth> > > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a

malefic or malefic like > planet > > (> > > > > > destroys the house it

isplaced in), it turns the science > > from a> > > > > > method into a madness.

It willput doubts into the minds of > > all> > > > > > astrologists while

interpreting itseffects, particularly on > > > young>

> > > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion > > > >

started on> > > > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy >

> wasted > > > on a> > > > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse,

a doubt > will > > > > arise as> > > > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some

willassociate it with > > good > > > they> > > > > > had in that house and

others with whateverbad they had.So > if > > > you > > > > are> > > > > >

determined to reap cheap publicity by making > > > > radical,unauthenticated> >

> > > > and> > > > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa

free > > > forum.> > > >

> > But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest > > > >

disservice> > > > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to >

> learned> > > > > > members would be to accept any advice only after their own

> > > study > > > > and> > > > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike

Raman, Rao > > etc.for> > > > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat

anyadvice > > seriously > > > > only if> > > > > > it is backed up by its

source so as to makeindependent > > > > verification> > > > > > possible unless

the author says it to be hisown research/ > > > > experience.> > > > > >

Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion > > as > >

> > friends> > > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So

> > far I> > > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a> > > > >

> headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two > > > > queries.The>

> > > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has > > to > >

> be > > > > read> > > > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and

not the > > > 3rd > > > > only.> > > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst

shaloka: Dhanesh in > > second,> > > > > > > quadrants, trines is

dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in > > > 6,8,12> > > > > > opposite.Second

Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or >

> > > aspected> > > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house

opposite > > > effect.> > > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim

to be.So long > > as > > > it > > > > is> > > > > > known as abenefic, it

qualifies to be a wealth giver > > according > > > to> > > > > > this

shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is > > also> > > > > >

posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with > > it, > > > then> >

> > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that > > if > > >

> Mars is> > > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an >

> > > implication> > > > > > which you are

trying to make outprobably to make your > Muni's > > > > dictum> > > > > > hold

good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that > > > while a> > > > > >

swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but > > with > > > Mars> >

> > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi"> > > > > >

meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your > > own > > > self> >

> > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi > > which > > >

as > > > > per> > > > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes

necessary to > > > > support?> > > > > > As regards your second point, I am

unfortunately not getting> > > > >

> theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no > > > chapter> > > >

> > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has > > no> > > > >

> shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good> > > > > >

results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- > > > > Chandrashekhar>

> > > > > <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am

amused at the reasoning put forward by > > you > > > > that if> > > > > > some

author quotes some other authority, he is not an > > > authority on> > > > > >

the subject.If that be so all those you treat as > authorities,> > > > > >

including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not > > heard

> > > of> > > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of > >

ignoramus. > > > > All of> > > > > > those who are treated as authorities have

given opinions of > > > > others by> > > > > > either referring totheir names

or saying precisely what the > > > shloka> > > > > > says that is "so

sayMunis". So rest assured none of the > > > Acharyas > > > > and> > > > > >

Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason > I > > > am > > > >

not> > > > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read > > >

various> > > > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts

> > > and it> > > > > > takes

time to remember the name of author of each and every > > > shloka> > > > > >

one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read> > > > > >

commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be > > > reduced > > > >

to> > > > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the > > >

beginning> > > > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have

told > > > before> > > > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha >

Mihira.Maitreya > > > also> > > > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now

told principlesof > > > > astrology on> > > > > > the basis of what others have

told he should give a > > relatively > > > > easy> > > > > >

method so that transit of planets could be used for > > prediction > > > by> > >

> > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga > > > inBPHS.Could > >

> > you> > > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What >

isthe > > > > reason> > > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord

of the 2nd > > when > > > > placed> > > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars

there to make one > wealthy, > > > > implying> > > > > > that Jupiter in other

cases by its mere presence in > 2ndwould > > > not > > > > be> > > > > >

capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not> > > > > >

disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is

quoting> > > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason >

> > out > > > > why> > > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give

Kakshya > Vridhi > > > it > > > > has> > > > > > to be aspected by a benefic

when in Lagna or 7th house. > > Think > > > why> > > > > > > Jupiter by

himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in> > > > > >

longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear

Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already > > read > > > the> > > > > >

shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv> > > > SvSwanhNta> > > >

> > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir

SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy > > > > ànòa.But> > > > > > please understand, this

shaloka by itself does not establish> > > > > > thethesis you are trying to put

forward. It has to be > backed > > > up by> > > > > > theauthor, his standing in

the astrological field, the time > > > when > > > > it> > > > > > wassaid and

the context in which it was said. Literally > > > > translated,> > > > > >

theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and> > > > > >

dignifies > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > > > > > > house

it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the > > > house it> >

> > > > is > > > > > > >> > > > > > > in > > > > > > >> > > > > > > while

its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the > > > > words "vdit > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > muinvra" > > > > > > >> > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This

means that this shaloka too is> > > > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of

its author. Who is the > > > > author of> > > > > > thisblatant theory after

all?Chandarshekharji, you are > > making > > > an> > > > > > important and

revolutionarystatement which if followed > shall > > > > change> > > > > > the

entire structure of > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya > all> > > > > >

must > > > > > > >> > > > > > > have > > > > > > >> > > > > > > stumbled

in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You > > > have > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > therefore > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly.

Sanskrit shalokas can be > > > written> > > > > > byanybody, even a primary

class student studying sanskrit. > > It

> > > does> > > > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because

> > it > > > > is > > > > > > >> > > > > > > written > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and > we > > > need >

> > > not> > > > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author

> > > who > > > > is so> > > > > > respected > > > > > > >> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In

your > > > other > > > > mail> >

> > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar > > Oza > > >

and> > > > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > commentaries > > > > > > >> > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I

know sanskrit very > > well. > > > So, > > > > as> > > > > > a learned Guru

please favour all of us with the > > > > backgroundinformation> > > > > > on

the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou > > > are so> > > > >

> convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives > ofhuman> > > > > >

beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual > > charts >

> > as > > > > it> > > > > > is > > > > > > >> > > > > > > common > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are >

> > > now > > > > > > >> > > > > > > holding > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the > > lives> > > > > > of

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > these > > > > > > >> > > > > > > people, then

the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi > > has> > > > > > verynicely

handled this issue and replied the post point by> > > > > > point.Pran Razdan---

Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear

Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and > > > others> > > > > >

have given > > > > > > >> > > > > > > other > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the> > > > > > archivesbut

it appears you have not done so. Have you found > > > shloka> > > > > >

aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in > > > > progeny> >

> > > > at least?You have mentioned many

personalities, how much do > > > you > > > > know> > > > > > abouttheir personal

lives to say that Jupiter has not > harmed > > > the> > > > > > house that

occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? > > > Check > > > > up.> > > >

> > Also > > > > > > >> > > > > > > check > > > > > > >> > > > > > > up

what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand > > what > > > > Guru> > >

> > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If > > you > > >

read> > > > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own> >

> > > > experience. I have

alsosaid that one has to apply the > dictum > > in> > > > > > proper perspective

to get > > > > > > >> > > > > > > correct > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like > all> > > > > >

planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are > > > capable > > > >

of> > > > > > giving > > > > > > >> > > > > > > good > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen > > times > > >

that> > > > > > no > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be> >

> > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The > case> > > > >

> mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house > orSaturn > > > who> > >

> > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I > > > remember >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > right. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The dictum being

Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana> > > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results

that are stated to be obtained > > are > > > in> > > > > > keeping with

thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan > >

wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been

reading your posts on > > this > > > > subject> > > > > > all along but

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > failed > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > > > >> > > > > > > to > > > > > > >> > > > > > > get your source of

conviction.We all agree that Jup too > > has > > > its> > > > > > unfavourable

positions

and > > > > > > >> > > > > > > traits. > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is> > > > > > a

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > functional > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know > > > that> > > >

> > it > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

gets > > > > > > >> > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although

KPdosh means only > > > holding> > > > > > beneficial/malefic qualities,

nothing more, but we extend> > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > argument > > > > > > >> > > > > > > further by making them good or

bad. These are well> > > > > > established > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > === message truncated === > > > > >

> _______________________________Express > > > > yourself> >

> > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. > > > http://messenger.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Group

info: vedic-> > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > >

>> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ||

Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>

> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Group

info: vedic-> > > > astrology/info.html> > > > > >

>> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > >

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ||

Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > Sponsor> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Links> > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

vedic astrology/> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

To from this group,

send an email to:> > > > > > > vedic astrology> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> Terms > > > of> > > > > > Service.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Do

You ?> > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

protection > > > around> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >

>> > > > > >> > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology>

> > > > >> > > > > > Group info: vedic-> > >

astrology/info.html> > > > > >> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

vedic astrology-> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > .......

May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > > >> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat

|| Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > *

Groups Sponsor*> > > > > > > > > > > > click here > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

<http://us.ard./SIG=1290dg6m7/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011> > > 7> >

> > > > > > > >

6/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1095950461/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6> > > /> >

> > *http://companion.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

---------------------------> -> > --> > > --->

> > > ------> > > > > > * Links*> > > > > >> > > > > > * To

visit your group on the web, go to:> > > > >

> vedic astrology/> > > > > > > > > >

> > * > > > > > >

vedic astrology> > > > > >

<vedic astrology?> > > >

subject=Un>> > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > Terms > > > of> > > > > > Service

<>.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

> Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > > > > > To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > > >

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat

|| Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > >

Sponsor> > > > > > > > >

> > > Links> > > > > > To

visit your group on the web, go to:> > >

vedic astrology/> > > > > > To

from this group, send an email to:> > >

vedic astrology> > > > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > New and

Improved Mail - 100MB free storage!> > > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > Sponsor> > > > >

> > > Links> > > > To visit

your group on the web, go to:> >

vedic astrology/> > >

> > >

vedic astrology> > > > Your use of

Groups is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > >

> > > > Mail - 50x more

storage than other providers!> > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......> >

> > >

Sponsor> > > >

Links> > >

vedic astrology/> > To from this

group, send an email to:> vedic astrology> >

> > >

> > > Mail Address

AutoComplete - You start. We finish.Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!